Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Ash Crimson => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 04:48:01 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/ash_01.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
Recompenses - ;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d
Command Normals
Floreal - ;bk + ;b
Floreal (backward) - ;bk + ;d
Special Moves
Ventose - Charge ;bk, ;fd + ;a / ;c *
Nivose - Charge ;dn, ;up + ;b / ;d *
Germinal Caprice - Charge ;bk, ;fd + ;b / ;d *
Genee - ;qcb + ;a / ;b / ;c / ;d *
Desperation Moves
Thermidor - ;qcf x 2+ ;a / ;c
Pluivose - ;qcf x 2+ ;b / ;d *
Sans Culotte - ;a , ;b , ;c , ;d
Germinal - ;qcb, ;hcf + ;a ;c
Neomax
Fructidor - ;hcb x 2+ ;b ;d
Ash's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ash_Crimson_(XIII))
Console changes:
- (shown in video) All versions of Genie stay on the screen longer.
- (shown in video) Sans-culotte (ABCD) has had its damage scaling adjusted. It scales more overall.
- Floreal (forward) (b+B) has faster startup and can be comboed from light attacks.
- B version of Nivose (d_u+K) has had its invincibility increased. The invincibility ends as soon as the hitbox appears.
- EX Genie now knocks away while retaining its juggling properties
- (shown in video) Germinal now takes no gauge
- (shown in video) Thermidor’s startup is faster
- (shown in video) The version of EX Genie done using both kicks tracks the opponent.
Yamamoto: Genie remains on the screen for a longer time. It may be interesting to use Genie as a wall of defense as Ventose can now be used while Genie is present. Although Sans Culotte scales more frequently, please try using Germinal as that no longer requires stocks itself.
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Reserved
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Reserved
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16340144 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16340144)
Ash Crimson tutorial vid
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Thanks, Miles. I'll add that to the Video Thread when I create it later today.
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So has anyone figured out Thermidor's uses yet?
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So has anyone figured out Thermidor's uses yet?
This might just be my newbie talk coming from a newbie who's been probably been playing newbies... I use it occassionally after a knock down to lock down... At about a sweep distance, it's easy to hyperhop in for a high low mixup, or baiting a roll cancel and just hop straight up hk / empty and go low...
I don't assume that's a viable tactic in medium / high level play?
Is ;dn ;b a legit poke? I've been getting in with that and hop ;a a bit, but I feel like there might be better alternatives.
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Well, that's the normal use for Thermidor. People may argue it's not really worth the power stock though.
Also, yeah, cr.B is one of his better pokes, best used with b+B (adds forward pressure) and b+D (retreat if blocked). s.B is too short, s.C is a little too slow (though you could mix it up for timing), s.D isn't cancellable, cr.D is a sweep and cr.A has a shorter range.
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cr.B, st.C, st.D, and cr.D are all pretty useful as poking tools. st.C is probably the least useful due to how slow it is, but it's still better than some similar moves of other characters because it hits many crouching characters and is cancelable. st.D is nice for its lower body invincibility and faster startup than b+B. cr.D has pretty good range and startup and is also cancelable, so it's a good sweep overall. Remember that cancelable normals can cancel into command normals (b+B, b+D) or specials (qcb+X, b~f+P) even on whiff, so as long as you make use of this, you don't have to worry too much about being whiff-punished, especially with the extremely fast b+D available.
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cr.B, st.C, st.D, and cr.D are all pretty useful as poking tools. st.C is probably the least useful due to how slow it is, but it's still better than some similar moves of other characters because it hits many crouching characters and is cancelable. st.D is nice for its lower body invincibility and faster startup than b+B. cr.D has pretty good range and startup and is also cancelable, so it's a good sweep overall. Remember that cancelable normals can cancel into command normals (b+B, b+D) or specials (qcb+X, b~f+P) even on whiff, so as long as you make use of this, you don't have to worry too much about being whiff-punished, especially with the extremely fast b+D available.
Thanks for that. On hop, is A the best option?
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Well, there's j.D too. It kicks deep and, like j.A, it can crossup. Easier to combo afterwards too. j.A is still faster though and can more easily hit crouchers trying to jump.
j.B and j.C both have an angle but make decent pokes against airborne opponents. j.B has longer reach and is faster while j.C can hit standing opponents easier but may still whiff against crouchers. j.D may seem like it would hit airborne opponents too but if your opponent is on a higher plane than you are, it may whiff.
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Hmm. Hardest thing about the J.D is when I hop, it often doesn't come out... I suppose I can just start it much earlier, but then I can't combo off of it... Hmm, I'll play with that. THanks.
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How I play Ash: Basic Mega-zoney with tech traps. Every jump or hop is always flash kicked. Flame Kiss on knock down. I WANT an evasive roll so I can punish with a combo. Low projectilers (and Mai) force me to be more aggressive.
To the above, j.D is terrible for air to air vs. his j.C. j.D has no hitbox above a 190 degree angle which is why you're experiencing it not coming out on hops. Start it earlier, I promise you can still combo.
Uses I have for Thermidore:
On knockdown to Force opponent to block or roll.
Catch jump-ins that I see or hops that I know are coming to bounce them into the corner, where all the partying's at.
For no reason just to see what they'll do when I yell "Run! Run!" in the voice of Dormammu(I'll stop this, I promise)
To chip someone out. Thermidore > Fire Kiss > Weak Ventose or even Thermidore> Thermidore does a surprising amount if they aren paying attention and do something besides stand there blocking.
If this sounds dumb, it may be, I will readily admit I am new to the game, but the above definitely work on others. For now, at least.
That being said, what's the best way to get a good Germinal off during a Sans Culotte combo? I can only barely justify doing Sans Culotte in the first place. Best damage I can get is 375 cause I have awful execution. Why would I risk dropping a long combo that is hella spacing dependent when I can just EX Pluivose from anything? Or am I simply just thinking wrong? Teach me, guide me.
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Ran him in my team yesterday online and he was so much fun, even though I felt like a complete ass towards my opponent with my style of play lol.
I know ppl prefer him 2nd or 3rd because of how good he is with meter but I found him to be a fantastic battery, doing extremely well while mostly spending meter on the occasional EX fireball. My Clark would come in 2nd pretty much loaded every time to the teeth with meter. It was kinda funny in the sense that my first character was an annoying keep away style ("let me out! let me out!") while the 2nd kept trying to get in all the time ("let me in! let me in!"), must've messed with the opponent's heads.
That being said, what's the best way to get a good Germinal off during a Sans Culotte combo? I can only barely justify doing Sans Culotte in the first place. Best damage I can get is 375 cause I have awful execution. Why would I risk dropping a long combo that is hella spacing dependent when I can just EX Pluivose from anything? Or am I simply just thinking wrong? Teach me, guide me.
Execution is the barrier but if you get past it that is where Sans Culotte's true power comes into play since you can go straight from it into HD and back into another Sans Culotte if you want. Its a very powerful but at the same time in no way easy, and so abusable, tool.
One of the big advantages of this super is how invincible it seems to be so a great get off me move, not to mention I'd rather mistime this in a combo in front of the opponent's face than a QCF QCF+K.
I'm no execution specialist so since taking him up yesterday, and doing suprisingly well online, I've been thinking about how to use this super with minimal effort. The thing about it is that it starts to scale heavily the more you go so even if you did Germinal at the end it would do barely any damage. But if you look at Germinal's damage right after activation then it actually isn't that bad.
So going by what I saw in a vid I think the bnb combo I will use after Sans Culotte is activated is:
Nivose, b+D, Germinal Caprice > Nivose, b+D, Germinal Caprice > Germinal for the finish
Iirc this did pretty solid damage since little scaling takes place (more than the kick super) and doesn't seem to be very execution heavy (gonna try it when I get home).
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the fact that germinal lock special moves for ever compensate for the lack of damage IMO.
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Not forever, just 10 secs or so.
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So I was messing around with Ash in the corner and found out you can quickly input ;c ;a ;b ;bk, roughly pianoing the inputs, and you can get s.C to b+B. Also, if you hit-confirm the s.C, you can quickly input ;c ;d before the b+B comes out to get Sans-Culotte.
Not sure how useful this is as an option-select, since the s.C needs to hit pretty close to the opponent, and you get pushed back some for Sans-Culotte so you need to start with something like d~u+B before doing the loop, but thought I'd share that finding.
Anyway, starting to get the Sans-Culotte corner loop consistently down - I'm still pretty green with him but the loops and HD potential are fun to pull off and watch. Regardless of where he ends up in the tier list, he's real fun to play.
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So I'm a complete jerk when I play Ash, now. I play as lame and annoying as possible and it works. I don't use super ball as liberally as I used to, since I'm now looking for things to EX Ventose on reaction. I realize he's got some good corner combos but I'm too busy zoning when they're in the corner to try and go for the hit-confirm.
Learning about how my opponent works mid-match makes Genie flames all the more fun.
Anyone recommend something I can drive cancel midscreen? Only thing I can think of is Caprice off of Nivose or EX Ventose off of Nivose.
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Anyone recommend something I can drive cancel midscreen? Only thing I can think of is Caprice off of Nivose or EX Ventose off of Nivose.
That's pretty much it, I think. Well, actually, he can cancel his Caprice into Nivose but God knows how you can do that without Sans Culottes (though I'm guessing it's charge db,qcf+K [hold], uf). It's not a cancel but you can still combo EX Caprice into D Nivose. Nivose into Pluviose is a super cancel instead but works just the same. I haven't tested if EX Genie would combo midscreen after Caprice or Nivose. If it does, you could probably juggle them a bit longer.
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It doesn't work off of a combo'd Nivose midscreen, either versions of Genie whiff.
Didn't try off of Caprice, I'll check it tOnight and for practicality, thanks!
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there r shortcuts or motions who can make easier the part in sans culotte when u have to do ;dn ;up ;d, ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up ;b, ;bk ;d like in trial 8 ?
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there r shortcuts or motions who can make easier the part in sans culotte when u have to do ;dn ;up ;d, ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up ;b, ;bk ;d like in trial 8 ?
I didn't found any shortcut for those motions. The trick is to get the oponent close to the ground and use you muscle memory. After some pratice, it will became very natural and a useful combo. I pushed it online in some matches without droping, but i dont known until that combo is realible. If anyone knows a shortcut, i would like to know too...
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What's the easiest Sans-Culotte loop you guys know that works anywhere on the screen? I really suck at this.
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What's the easiest Sans-Culotte loop you guys know that works anywhere on the screen? I really suck at this.
Hey man! Check this video: [KOF XIII] Ash Crimson : Sans-Culotte tutorial (English Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwCqN-S81Ng#ws)
This one works very fine, and its very easy to pull off.
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What's the easiest Sans-Culotte loop you guys know that works anywhere on the screen? I really suck at this.
Yeah, I'm curious to see what other people's uses for this are, especially at midscreen.
Right now for corner I'm using:
D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice, b+D (whiff), [D Germinal Caprice, b+D, D Germinal Caprice, b+D (whiff)] x 3 (or maybe 4, don't remember), C Ventose, B Nivose
OR
[D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice, b+B (whiff), C Ventose] x 3, B/D Nivose
IIRC both of these also the first one does more damage than the crazy Trial #8 loop.
Midscreen feels so finicky, after the launch I'll get about flush a character length from the opponent, then I'll use [b+D, D Germinal Caprice with extra b+D whiff close to the corner] x n for corner carry. I can't get people to reverse direction as I want though - might have to try that B Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice loop for that.
EDIT: Actually on that note, what's a good way to go from Sans-Culotte to HD? In the corner I'm getting more consistent with HD to Sans or Sans to Sans but not Sans to HD.
EDIT2: Gahh so finicky at midscreen
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You can HD off of ;bk ;d and go into your combo from there.
I realize I should stop playing Ash cause all I do is troll matchups with flash kicks, projectiles, and lock downs and don't bother with combos or Sans Culotte 90% of the time, since thats whats most fun/successful for me. I'll keep playing him until this stops working, I guess.
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Hey man! Check this video: [KOF XIII] Ash Crimson : Sans-Culotte tutorial (English Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwCqN-S81Ng#ws)
This one works very fine, and its very easy to pull off.
Really appreciate the vid man, still can't do that but did take some pointers. With that combo the side on which the opponent lands after the first rep is inconsistent for me. Even if I start the second rep the D Germinal often misses.
After messing around a ton I found something I can do sort of consistently when starting with sB, b+B and then doing the super. After that I do D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice twice.
Now depending on where you are you gotta move on differently. If starting this combo at the opponent's starting point then you do one rep and the opponent is in the corner, so I do another rep and then the same rep until the super runs out but with B Nivose. After the last rep I do b+D, C Ventose and then finish with D Nivose. Does 406 dmg, is this considered good damage for this super?
If doing the same thing but way away from the other side of the screen (so the two first reps aren't enough to take the opponent to the corner) then after the second rep the opponent will switch sides and you gotta do the rep with B Nivose in the opposite direction, continue the reps from side to side until the last one and finish with the sealing super follow-up. Does 398 dmg.
The key that seems to make these possible is the distance created by starting with sB, b+B. If I try these by doing the super raw and point blank then the above doesn't seem to work quite as well.
That's all I got so far.
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Hey man! Check this video: [KOF XIII] Ash Crimson : Sans-Culotte tutorial (English Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwCqN-S81Ng#ws)
This one works very fine, and its very easy to pull off.
Really appreciate the vid man, still can't do that but did take some pointers. With that combo the side on which the opponent lands after the first rep is inconsistent for me. Even if I start the second rep the D Germinal often misses.
After messing around a ton I found something I can do sort of consistently when starting with sB, b+B and then doing the super. After that I do D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice twice.
Now depending on where you are you gotta move on differently. If starting this combo at the opponent's starting point then you do one rep and the opponent is in the corner, so I do another rep and then the same rep until the super runs out but with B Nivose. After the last rep I do b+D, C Ventose and then finish with D Nivose. Does 406 dmg, is this considered good damage for this super?
If doing the same thing but way away from the other side of the screen (so the two first reps aren't enough to take the opponent to the corner) then after the second rep the opponent will switch sides and you gotta do the rep with B Nivose in the opposite direction, continue the reps from side to side until the last one and finish with the sealing super follow-up. Does 398 dmg.
The key that seems to make these possible is the distance created by starting with sB, b+B. If I try these by doing the super raw and point blank then the above doesn't seem to work quite as well.
That's all I got so far.
I see, man. well, there is this problem with the distance, that way u mentioned (sb, b+B) is a good way to start the Sans Cullote, u could do a crouching+b, b+B too, i prefer cause it gives u a litlle more range to begin the combo, and also hits the first hit low like the stand version. But, if u want to carry the oponent without changing sides, try to incorporate the b+C or b+D after the Germinal Capr. u will recovery fast and the oponnet will fall in front of you, like the corner loop. If u anti-air someone with SC, try to to the combo loop finshing with b+D. This way u will maintain the oponent always in front of you, it works well with b+B, but the timing is more restrict cause your recovery is slower. I can't tell what version is better for the loop, u need to calculate the space, and get used to it. This way u will be capable off carry the oponent to the corner and go for the HD mode combos to get some really HIGH damage. I prefer to SC the oponent near corner, cause u can get 5 repetitions of the loop and finsh with an C Ventose, 2 back+D and finishing with a D nivose or CD. if you got HD meter do the C ventose back+D and HD mode. With this u can use the best Ash HD corner combo (the one with A Ventose, C Ventose, b+D and so on...) and, if u got bar, finish with the Pluivose, or even with the Fructidor (cancel the D Nivose into the Neomax) The problem is, u need 4 bars, so i only do this when messing around, in offline play to joke =)...
As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#ws)
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+C or D cancels on the SC loop.
imo, Sans cullotte combos are about get used to the inputs and pay atention on the distances that u take your oponent. If u get used to this, in no time u be able to take your oponnet to the corner very easily without droping problems, or just messing with him changing sides. Hope that i helped u a litlle =)
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As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#ws)
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+B or D cancels on the SC loop.
Keep in mind though that Sans-Culotte scaling is now 50% versus 60%, so 400 is actually pretty high for that loop. I did a calculation on that video loop and if I did the math right that same loop now does 436 damage. Still really solid damage for 2 meters and starting from a cr.B, b+B.
It's hard to keep track of all the options available, so I've actually had a little spreadsheet to help figure out damage you can get in Sans-Culotte. Might be a bit picky, but we oughta grind as much damage out as possible, right? :)
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As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#ws)
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+B or D cancels on the SC loop.
Keep in mind though that Sans-Culotte scaling is now 50% versus 60%, so 400 is actually pretty high for that loop. I did a calculation on that video loop and if I did the math right that same loop now does 436 damage. Still really solid damage for 2 meters and starting from a cr.B, b+B.
It's hard to keep track of all the options available, so I've actually had a little spreadsheet to help figure out damage you can get in Sans-Culotte. Might be a bit picky, but we oughta grind as much damage out as possible, right? :)
For sure man =) ... there are tons of options avalibele and that would be a hard task... I will se if i can get some time to figure alt SC combos damage... But, IMO, the best loop for real matches would be that one on the videos.. cause its easier and very realible, as u said, the damage is high for 2 bars... If u get, for instance, those ones from missons (d, u+D - b+D - d, u+C - b+D - d, u+B), they are kind of cool and very damaging, but kind of hard too cause they have a very, very restrict timing to being done... I like to mix that one with D Ventose, to get a litlle time to breathe ;) .... One thing is sure, when u get the execition time well, Ash became one of the most fun chars to be played :)
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I see, man. well, there is this problem with the distance, that way u mentioned (sb, b+B) is a good way to start the Sans Cullote, u could do a crouching+b, b+B too, i prefer cause it gives u a litlle more range to begin the combo, and also hits the first hit low like the stand version. But, if u want to carry the oponent without changing sides, try to incorporate the b+C or b+D after the Germinal Capr. u will recovery fast and the oponnet will fall in front of you, like the corner loop. If u anti-air someone with SC, try to to the combo loop finshing with b+D. This way u will maintain the oponent always in front of you, it works well with b+B, but the timing is more restrict cause your recovery is slower. I can't tell what version is better for the loop, u need to calculate the space, and get used to it. This way u will be capable off carry the oponent to the corner and go for the HD mode combos to get some really HIGH damage. I prefer to SC the oponent near corner, cause u can get 5 repetitions of the loop and finsh with an C Ventose, 2 back+D and finishing with a D nivose or CD. if you got HD meter do the C ventose back+D and HD mode. With this u can use the best Ash HD corner combo (the one with A Ventose, C Ventose, b+D and so on...) and, if u got bar, finish with the Pluivose, or even with the Fructidor (cancel the D Nivose into the Neomax) The problem is, u need 4 bars, so i only do this when messing around, in offline play to joke =)...
As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#ws)
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+C or D cancels on the SC loop.
imo, Sans cullotte combos are about get used to the inputs and pay atention on the distances that u take your oponent. If u get used to this, in no time u be able to take your oponnet to the corner very easily without droping problems, or just messing with him changing sides. Hope that i helped u a litlle =)
Not a little, you pretty much told me all I needed to know. Thanks so much.
I've got the loop kind of consistent now, in practice mode lol. Incorporating this into real matches will be the real challenge. I'll try to learn that HD combo you posted but it doesn't look like something I'll be able to do easily.
Doing this stuff has definitely brought a new level of fun to the character, like Milln I was an effective troll with him but didn't feel like I was playing him right.
Now that I can do the SC loop though, I dunno, is it really worth it? All that effort and timing and the overall damage isn't that special, dunno if its worth it unless you do double SC or go into HD for a really long combo. The probability of dropping is pretty high, even someone of Mr.Kof's calibur often drops them.
Keep in mind though that Sans-Culotte scaling is now 50% versus 60%, so 400 is actually pretty high for that loop. I did a calculation on that video loop and if I did the math right that same loop now does 436 damage. Still really solid damage for 2 meters and starting from a cr.B, b+B.
It's hard to keep track of all the options available, so I've actually had a little spreadsheet to help figure out damage you can get in Sans-Culotte. Might be a bit picky, but we oughta grind as much damage out as possible, right? :)
Thanks for those stats man, I think I'll be sticking to my two loops then. They cover the whole screen and aren't too difficult (which I can't say with a straight face considering how much I mess up).
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I see, man. well, there is this problem with the distance, that way u mentioned (sb, b+B) is a good way to start the Sans Cullote, u could do a crouching+b, b+B too, i prefer cause it gives u a litlle more range to begin the combo, and also hits the first hit low like the stand version. But, if u want to carry the oponent without changing sides, try to incorporate the b+C or b+D after the Germinal Capr. u will recovery fast and the oponnet will fall in front of you, like the corner loop. If u anti-air someone with SC, try to to the combo loop finshing with b+D. This way u will maintain the oponent always in front of you, it works well with b+B, but the timing is more restrict cause your recovery is slower. I can't tell what version is better for the loop, u need to calculate the space, and get used to it. This way u will be capable off carry the oponent to the corner and go for the HD mode combos to get some really HIGH damage. I prefer to SC the oponent near corner, cause u can get 5 repetitions of the loop and finsh with an C Ventose, 2 back+D and finishing with a D nivose or CD. if you got HD meter do the C ventose back+D and HD mode. With this u can use the best Ash HD corner combo (the one with A Ventose, C Ventose, b+D and so on...) and, if u got bar, finish with the Pluivose, or even with the Fructidor (cancel the D Nivose into the Neomax) The problem is, u need 4 bars, so i only do this when messing around, in offline play to joke =)...
As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#ws)
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+C or D cancels on the SC loop.
imo, Sans cullotte combos are about get used to the inputs and pay atention on the distances that u take your oponent. If u get used to this, in no time u be able to take your oponnet to the corner very easily without droping problems, or just messing with him changing sides. Hope that i helped u a litlle =)
Not a little, you pretty much told me all I needed to know. Thanks so much.
I've got the loop kind of consistent now, in practice mode lol. Incorporating this into real matches will be the real challenge. I'll try to learn that HD combo you posted but it doesn't look like something I'll be able to do easily.
Doing this stuff has definitely brought a new level of fun to the character, like Milln I was an effective troll with him but didn't feel like I was playing him right.
Now that I can do the SC loop though, I dunno, is it really worth it? All that effort and timing and the overall damage isn't that special, dunno if its worth it unless you do double SC or go into HD for a really long combo. The probability of dropping is pretty high, even someone of Mr.Kof's calibur often drops them.
Hey man, im glad i helped u =)... just some extra info... i was testing ash´s SC combos in midscreen , and got some points. If u do the loop, try to use the b+C Version after the Germinal C. cause the D Version travel a litlle and cause u to drop. Sorry for that, im was messing that info with the corner options, my bad... but, in the loop, u dont need to use the b+C in the end. After the: d,u+D - b+D - b,f+D, Try the nest loop starting with d, u+B, instead the D version, until u got the corner. U have to wait the oponent to get close to the flor. The C Nivose juggles easily tha the D version, cause ists faster. This way, u dont nedd to use de b+C in the end. And its work enven on point blank, anti Air or comboed Sans Cullote. Another way to carry to the corner is with this loop: (Sans Cullote, b+D, D Germinal, b+D Whiff, repeat again...) If u got the Sans Cullote a litlle far, just run a litlle before de b+D ... im not pretty sure if the whiff could be done with b+C... need to test again ... but u can mess up a litlle around with ash do see =)...
On the HD combo, yeah, its really, really hard to pull it consistentely, without droping... online ive done that 2 times... in countless fights... offline i can do it much better, but its impossible to get the full combo always. IMO, that HD ash combo (the one with A Ventose, C Ventose, b+D and so on...) its one of the hardest in the game, cause the charges must be done in a very, very strict time, if not, u drop =(... in other way,, u almost didn use the HD cancels, so u can do lots of repetitions ultil the bars runs out... the easy version of hd combo its the one that u cancel Nivose, into C ventose, do a A ventose, and repeat... the mission mode shows u how to done... its much more easy, but gives u less damage. Ash is a char that demands a f#cking riddiculos hard excecution, but is fun as hell to play ... if u need more help, or a better explanation cause my f#cking Brazilian Engrish, just PM me man =)
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Hey man, im glad i helped u =)... just some extra info... i was testing ash´s SC combos in midscreen , and got some points. If u do the loop, try to use the b+C Version after the Germinal C. cause the D Version travel a litlle and cause u to drop. Sorry for that, im was messing that info with the corner options, my bad... but, in the loop, u dont need to use the b+C in the end. After the: d,u+D - b+D - b,f+D, Try the nest loop starting with d, u+B, instead the D version, until u got the corner. U have to wait the oponent to get close to the flor. The C Nivose juggles easily tha the D version, cause ists faster. This way, u dont nedd to use de b+C in the end. And its work enven on point blank, anti Air or comboed Sans Cullote. Another way to carry to the corner is with this loop: (Sans Cullote, b+D, D Germinal, b+D Whiff, repeat again...) If u got the Sans Cullote a litlle far, just run a litlle before de b+D ... im not pretty sure if the whiff could be done with b+C... need to test again ... but u can mess up a litlle around with ash do see =)...
On the HD combo, yeah, its really, really hard to pull it consistentely, without droping... online ive done that 2 times... in countless fights... offline i can do it much better, but its impossible to get the full combo always. IMO, that HD ash combo (the one with A Ventose, C Ventose, b+D and so on...) its one of the hardest in the game, cause the charges must be done in a very, very strict time, if not, u drop =(... in other way,, u almost didn use the HD cancels, so u can do lots of repetitions ultil the bars runs out... the easy version of hd combo its the one that u cancel Nivose, into C ventose, do a A ventose, and repeat... the mission mode shows u how to done... its much more easy, but gives u less damage. Ash is a char that demands a f#cking riddiculos hard excecution, but is fun as hell to play ... if u need more help, or a better explanation cause my f#cking Brazilian Engrish, just PM me man =)
Thanks man, I'll keep practicing and let you know If I have any more questions for sure.
Fought an Ash online yesterday and he anti-aired me with SC, the moment he did the first loop a big smile popped on my face, knew he was going to drop it and he did on the second rep lol.
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Not sure if it's the right place to post this.
I have a really hard time getting in on Ash. Fireballs keep me away and his flash kicks completely shutdown my offense.
Any specific setups or tips i could get?
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What characters are you using?
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So messing around in training mode the other day, I found out a funny way to be able to fully combo after Germinal. It's very impractical and prorates immensely, but it does work.
OK back to practicing corner BnBs with Ash.
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What characters are you using?
K', Kula, Kyo
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I planned on making this 2 weeks ago but got caught up on my SC5 hype haha.
anyways here's a combo video I made for Ash Crimson has every combo u'll need
from San Culotte to HD Bypass.
enjoy peeps!
KOF XIII Ash Crimson Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQgCI7iJkM#ws)
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Amazing video ! thanks for sharing !!!
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I planned on making this 2 weeks ago but got caught up on my SC5 hype haha.
anyways here's a combo video I made for Ash Crimson has every combo u'll need
from San Culotte to HD Bypass.
enjoy peeps!
KOF XIII Ash Crimson Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQgCI7iJkM#ws)
one of the best ash videos i have seen lately
any tips about the timing of ;dn ;up ;d, ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up ;b, ;bk ;d ? i ask cause frequently the last b D moves too far and whiff sometimes i can do it correctly but i dont understand why ?
something is wrong in the timing of cancel moves or maybe the weight ? i dont know
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Amazing video ! thanks for sharing !!!
Your welcome glad I could help
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I planned on making this 2 weeks ago but got caught up on my SC5 hype haha.
anyways here's a combo video I made for Ash Crimson has every combo u'll need
from San Culotte to HD Bypass.
enjoy peeps!
KOF XIII Ash Crimson Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQgCI7iJkM#ws)
one of the best ash videos i have seen lately
any tips about the timing of ;dn ;up ;d, ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up ;b, ;bk ;d ? i ask cause frequently the last b D moves too far and whiff sometimes i can do it correctly but i dont understand why ?
something is wrong in the timing of cancel moves or maybe the weight ? i dont know
What I do is let them drop very low to the ground b4 I do ;dn ;up ;d, ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up ;b, ;bk ;d
cause if u do it too soon the combo will put them too high in the air to continue comboing
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Great vid, won't ever be able to do any of that stuff but great vid.
K', Kula, Kyo
Here are some general tips:
- You will see them mash cr.B a lot with Ash, get used to this. Find moves in your characters' arsenals that beat these (like Kyo's sD etc).
- He can't do much damage without meter. So most of the time they will be damaging you in small chunks.
- Kula is a great counter against him because of her reflector and her df+B slide. Her slide goes right under his fireballs and hits him clean. So she nullifies his fireball game, what he's all about, to a big extent.
- If they are just sitting there and mashing lows they are just waiting for you to jump so they can flash kick you. Watch if they stand up at any point to walk or whatever, because if they do they have lost their charge and you have a chance to get some pressure in.
- Be patient don't rush in unnecessarily, you'll often just run into a lot of fireballs if you try to get in too hard. Block.
- His stationary flame move does not hit instantly, there is an activation time, so fast moves can pass through it without getting hit.
Don't know if these are of any use but they help me get by. I think Ash is a character that requires strong fundamentals to be very effective, basic annoying tactics will only take you so far. This is why I think there are so few Ash players online now compared to when the game was first released.
Check out some of the latest Mad Kof match vids in the general section, he plays a long session against a very solid Ash player.
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Great vid, won't ever be able to do any of that stuff but great vid.
K', Kula, Kyo
Here are some general tips:
- You will see them mash cr.B a lot with Ash, get used to this. Find moves in your characters' arsenals that beat these (like Kyo's sD etc).
- He can't do much damage without meter. So most of the time they will be damaging you in small chunks.
- Kula is a great counter against him because of her reflector and her df+B slide. Her slide goes right under his fireballs and hits him clean. So she nullifies his fireball game, what he's all about, to a big extent.
- If they are just sitting there and mashing lows they are just waiting for you to jump so they can flash kick you. Watch if they stand up at any point to walk or whatever, because if they do they have lost their charge and you have a chance to get some pressure in.
- Be patient don't rush in unnecessarily, you'll often just run into a lot of fireballs if you try to get in too hard. Block.
- His stationary flame move does not hit instantly, there is an activation time, so fast moves can pass through it without getting hit.
Don't know if these are of any use but they help me get by. I think Ash is a character that requires strong fundamentals to be very effective, basic annoying tactics will only take you so far. This is why I think there are so few Ash players online now compared to when the game was first released.
Check out some of the latest Mad Kof match vids in the general section, he plays a long session against a very solid Ash player.
thank you!, i'll keep that in mind
I've noticed that against really defensive characters like Ash sometimes i am forced to play lame.
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Hey, I would like some advice on my order that includes Ash.
My current team is Ash, Kula and Benimaru (I recently just dropped Vice). Quite the odd team, it was mostly from picking Kula first as I learnt her whilst playing the Demo then I got the game then used K' Team for the story and was just my initial team. Whilst just playing I unlocked Ash and Saiki and I really liked Ash so I started playing him. Even though later I learnt Saiki is fairly top tier and a character used by some top players, doesn't Romance play him? Nevertheless he's definitely a character that can play defensive because of his charge moves and zoning abilities, which is kinda my style and is can still play a decent rushdown. Vice came from me wanting to experiment with a grappler character, I got okay with her. Benimaru was also on my 'learn' list and I just started using him.
But currently my order goes like this: Kula, Ash, Benimaru. I'm not so good with San-Culotte yet, so keep that in mind.
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Your team order is fine unless u wanna have Ash with meter I would put him 2nd or 3rd.
Infact u can mix it around with ur whole team they can all be played anywhere u want em ur team has alot of freedom
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Yeah cool thanks, also I would also put Vice 2nd or 3rd if I were to play with her again since her EX Deicide is great to start a combo from a blowback knockback.
Also can someone show me the corner juggle from a hitconfirm to EX Germinal Caprice and is it the best juggle for minimal meter? What I've seen in videos after it's:
b~f+BD xx b~f+A > b~f+C > b+B> (Repeat) xx d~u+D > b~f+A to start again and possibly lead into Sans-Culotte
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Yeah cool thanks, also I would also put Vice 2nd or 3rd if I were to play with her again since her EX Deicide is great to start a combo from a blowback knockback.
Also can someone show me the corner juggle from a hitconfirm to EX Germinal Caprice and is it the best juggle for minimal meter? What I've seen in videos after it's:
b~f+BD xx b~f+A > b~f+C > b+B> (Repeat) xx d~u+D > b~f+A to start again and possibly lead into Sans-Culotte
I don't think I ever saw that in a combo b4,you sure ur not thinking of this:
b~f+BD> b~f+C> b+D> b~f+C> d~u+B> b~f+A> b~f+C> San Culotte
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Reuploaded this CV due to YT deleting my old account.
KOF XIII Ash Crimson Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y29nPXdT8eE#ws)
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yes thank you! I was looking for that earlier. I was actually trying to see if anyone had come up with an Ash 100% ending in his neomax with out using some sort of situational confirm from a j.CD or genie in the corner. The best I've been able to squeeze out from a jump-in in the corner is about 990 with 514 before the HD activation. I was wondering if anyone knew a more damaging HD than the generic b.D > A ventose > C ventose loop that lends itself well enough to ending with kick super > neomax. If not, is there a known sans culotte sequence or something that can lead to over 514 damage before activating HD using only 2 stock and obviously no drive? I know it isn't at all necessary to have with the character but its something that's been bugging me for awhile and I miss the ole Trinity Two.
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Your welcome bro,yea there were alot of ppl that asked what happened to all my CVs but now u guyz know(I still h8 YT for doing it in the 1st place).
TBH im not sure if u can get pass 990 but it's most likely possible u should keep on experimenting with it.
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Ha you were right. I kept messing with it in little ways and I got to 100%. Does 1002 with full j.c as a starter, 1000 with full j.d and hop c, and 998 with hop d but it needs the corner. Will try to record it later for posterity to improve on.
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Gratz man I knew u could do it haha.
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Anyone know exactly when and where the invincibility is on Ash during Nivose?
I often find myself getting hit during both the B and D versions.
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B have 3-4f (my next post)
But starts in 3
D have more, don't know any other details except it's start longer than 5f.
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You sure? In the first post's console changes it mentions that the invincibility on the B version has been increased.
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You sure? In the first post's console changes it mentions that the invincibility on the B version has been increased.
Miss I was on the way to edit my post, it has invincibility (otherwise it wouldn't be able to beat 3f safe jumps), but at best it might last 4f (because it trades on some slow safejump).
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Ah, thanks.
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New Ash BnB, practical stun combo.
http://youtu.be/N0WpwqcpAKA (http://youtu.be/N0WpwqcpAKA)
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Great vid bopper. I'll try to incorporate it into my matches as I mainly play Ash as anchor.
I've been thinking of doing an Ash tutorial that covers everthing from practical to impractical to borderline troll antics. Some stuff I've been working on is a way for Ash to be very greedy by going for the seal and genee oki in 1 combo. It might be possible to practically do it. More updates to possibly come.
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hi i have question. when your doing ash's HD combo into SANS. ill do my last fireball, dash, mash SANS, and ill punch them out of the air with A. help please :)
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Do your fireball, while the animation is still on screen do A/B run C/D
Funny because someone asked here :
http://fr.twitch.tv/frionel26/b/329120448 (http://fr.twitch.tv/frionel26/b/329120448)
1hour 23minutes and used quite the same vocabulary haha.
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LOL your very observant! or you have a good memory! i dont know what your trying to say but if you also look i say that the stream is lagging. maybe i should have asked the broadcaster to write it. not to bother you.. but thank you for your answer its why i asked.
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I was insinuating it was you on the stream but I wasn't very sure. :3 (The "mash" word made me tilt, you used it in both of your sentences (the caster read your sentence))
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:3
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Easiest way to do sans is probably during the ending recovery the fireball press a,b,c then once it's over you dash up and press d
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Has anyone found an Ash 100% HD combo for 4 bars? I haven't seen any posted/videos and I just found one. I'll see if I can record it.
s.C > b+B > [HD], s.C, b+B, d~u+B, [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1) > (HDC) b~f+Ax2]x3, d~u+D(1) > (HDC) b~f+A, b~f+C(walk up fireball), b+D, ABCD(run up), [d~u+D, b+D, d~u+B, b+D, b~f+D, b+D(whiff), b~f+A, b~f+C]x2, d~u+D, b+D, b~f+A, b~f+C, b+D, ABCD(run up), [d~u+D, b+D, d~u+B, b+D, b~f+D, b+D(whiff), b~f+A, b~f+C]x2, d~u+D, b+D, b~f+A, b~f+C, b+D, CD
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http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ash_Crimson_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ash_Crimson_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata)
Ash frames are up.
thx
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Here is an Ash 4 bar 100% combo that I came up with.
King of Fighters 13 Ash 4 Bar 100% HD Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsdISz4jHBQ#)
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Here is an Ash 4 bar 100% combo that I came up with.
King of Fighters 13 Ash 4 Bar 100% HD Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsdISz4jHBQ#)
Good stuff man! I will definetly start doing this combo and implementing it into my game.
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What's the exact damage scalling on Ash's SC?
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Here is an Ash 4 bar 100% combo that I came up with.
King of Fighters 13 Ash 4 Bar 100% HD Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsdISz4jHBQ#)
Good stuff man! I will definetly start doing this combo and implementing it into my game.
Thanks, this isn't his only 100% combo for four bars and HD. It just has the most practical confirm because it starts midscreen and it doesn't require a jump in.
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Here is an Ash 4 bar 100% combo that I came up with.
King of Fighters 13 Ash 4 Bar 100% HD Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsdISz4jHBQ#)
Good stuff man! I will definetly start doing this combo and implementing it into my game.
Thanks, this isn't his only 100% combo for four bars and HD. It just has the most practical confirm because it starts midscreen and it doesn't require a jump in.
Trust me I know it isn't but this one is like you said very practical and is 4 bars where most I see are 5.
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What's the exact damage scalling on Ash's SC?
When you first hit the opponent with SC activated that move does 50% of it's normal damage, rounded down. After that the most moves will scale is 10% of their normal damage. Ash's b.D does 40 damage normally and when the combo is fully scaled, in SC, it will do 4. Does that answer your question?
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For the most part, I'll try it out as soon as I can.
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Ash combos keep getting flashier and flashier... but not any more damaging.
KoF XIII : Combo Compliation by OTIKA (7) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhU8fbBL-qk#)
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More good stuff from Chile, this time it's a Kara CD
KOFXIII Ash Kara CD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMHlZpxeAa4#ws)
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Ash combos keep getting flashier and flashier... but not any more damaging.
KoF XIII : Combo Compliation by OTIKA (7) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhU8fbBL-qk#)
There a few new routes but in the corner the average damage you're going to get is established at this point of the game's lifespan unless someone busts out something completely out of the park. The various routes seem to provide better oki for certain situations.
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In case it's not being done yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47rCEdp0YU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47rCEdp0YU#ws)
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GuttsCL has uploaded an abundance of footage consisting mainly of useful in game tech. Check out his channel & subscribe if you have yet to
KOF XIII - Ash: Blowback ~ Sans Culotte OS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNPHiNhf038#ws)
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Now I know why Ash can move so freely during Sans Culotte mode: he's free-balling! xD
(http://i.imgur.com/u2wKN1h.png)
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Hot shit
https://youtu.be/n8GFZr8JlC8
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Now I know why Ash can move so freely during Sans Culotte mode: he's free-balling! xD
(http://i.imgur.com/u2wKN1h.png)
loool nice catch