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King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Elisabeth Branctorche => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:03:50 AM

Title: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:03:50 AM
(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/elisabeth_02.gif)

Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

* = EX version possible

Throws
Manier - ;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d close

Command Moves
Cou de Pied Ann - ;fd + ;b

Special Moves
Etincelles - ;qcf + ;a / ;c *

Coup De Veine - ;dp + ;a / ;c *

Reverie-souhaiter - ;qcf + ;b / ;d

Reverie-prier - ;qcb + ;b / ;d

Reverie-jere - ;qcb + ;a / ;c

Mistral - ;hcb ;fd + ;a / ;c (close) *

Desperation Moves
Noble Blanc - ;qcf x 2 + ;a / ;c

Grand Rafale - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a / ;c

Neomax
Etoile Filanto - ;qcb ;hcf + ;b ;d

Elizabeth's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elisabeth_Branctorche_(XIII)).

Console changes:
- Etincelle (qcf+P) builds up less meter
- Ex Reverie-Geler (qcb+P) has a longer recovery time on a success. Because of that, normal moves cant be used to make an additional hit. The recovery time can be canceled with a special.
- An Ex version of her Reverie-Souhaiter (qcb+K) and Reverie-Prier (qcf+K) have been added in the game. Its invincible while in movement and cancelable with a special. Whats more, the special will automatically come out as an Ex version without the cost of a meter. However, supers are an exception and will not turn into an Ex.
* Grand Rafales (qcf,hcb+P) damage has been dropped from 200 to 150.
- Noble-Blanche (qcf*2+P) has longer invincibility.
- Ex Noble-Blanches hitbox has been changed so that its easier to get in all the multiple hits. With this change, it lands full hit in the corner.
* Grand Rafale has more Max cancelable frames.

Producer Yamamoto says: With the new Ex version of Reverie-souhaiter and Reverie-prier, she has more options for attacks. It can even be used as a sort of running throw with Mistral (hcb~f+P), so please try things out. Grand Rafales damage has been reduced to 150, but it can be Max canceled even after the first hit now. Also, Noble-Blanche can be Max canceled as well, so it can be used in various situations such as the finishing touch on combos.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:04:08 AM
Reserved
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:04:21 AM
Reserved
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: SummyG on December 07, 2011, 09:48:33 AM
i'm having trouble with a particular Elisabeth corner combo.

 ;c, ;fd ;b, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c,  ;fd ;dn ;df ;a X2,  ;up ;c, Grand Rafale.

I believe its one of her trials.

The part I seem to miss 90% of the time is her ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c. i can DC the motion just fine, but the ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c, usually will miss. Not really sure if its a spacing issue or I have to wait for the character to be very low to the ground.

Maybe it has something to do with the timing of  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c?

I would appreciate some input on this. thanks

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: sociald on December 07, 2011, 11:41:31 AM
i'm having trouble with a particular Elisabeth corner combo.

 ;c, ;fd ;b, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c,  ;fd ;dn ;df ;a X2,  ;up ;c, Grand Rafale.

I believe its one of her trials.

The part I seem to miss 90% of the time is her ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c. i can DC the motion just fine, but the ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c, usually will miss. Not really sure if its a spacing issue or I have to wait for the character to be very low to the ground.

Maybe it has something to do with the timing of  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c?

I would appreciate some input on this. thanks



have to be low or it ll hit not accurately or whiff. do u use the shortcut  ;fd ;a ;c ? im stucked in that trial too but i cant even cancel the first  ;fd ;dn ;df ;c in  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c any advice ?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: milesw on December 07, 2011, 11:59:44 AM
i'm having trouble with a particular Elisabeth corner combo.

 ;c, ;fd ;b, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c,  ;fd ;dn ;df ;a X2,  ;up ;c, Grand Rafale.

I believe its one of her trials.

The part I seem to miss 90% of the time is her ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c. i can DC the motion just fine, but the ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c, usually will miss. Not really sure if its a spacing issue or I have to wait for the character to be very low to the ground.

Maybe it has something to do with the timing of  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c?

I would appreciate some input on this. thanks



have to be low or it ll hit not accurately or whiff. do u use the shortcut  ;fd ;a ;c ? im stucked in that trial too but i cant even cancel the first  ;fd ;dn ;df ;c in  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c any advice ?


I was messing around with her for the first time last night

@ Summy

You just have to hit the dp A very low  after the qcf C and tap AC so its like...

dp C>qcf C(doesnt matter when you do this)>dp A~AC(do this dpA really low to the ground. the same point where you DC into qcf A in the previous combos)>dp A...etc

@socialD
you dont drive cancel qcf C it juggles straight after dp C
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Dark Chaotix on December 07, 2011, 04:19:39 PM
I took a look at her trials (havent done any at this point) and looked at her trial 9 set. Since completing 3 characters so far, im finding a trend that trial 9 are harder then trial 10. I have done her trial 9 and not too sure what the problem is....Its not that hard to do, it has to do with height and timing.

I might do her trials next so people can see me what to do.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: SummyG on December 07, 2011, 04:38:19 PM
have to be low or it ll hit not accurately or whiff. do u use the shortcut  ;fd ;a ;c ?

Yes

im stucked in that trial too but i cant even cancel the first  ;fd ;dn ;df ;c in  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c any advice ?

the timing on the  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c doesnt need to be done in any paticular way. Start the  ;dn ;df ;fd motion during the recovery from her  dp+c, and then hold down  ;c. Because of the hold button buffer, the move will come out the first frame it is able.

http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/09/the-king-of-details-3-buffering-tricks-and-motion-shortcuts/ (http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/09/the-king-of-details-3-buffering-tricks-and-motion-shortcuts/)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Mazinkaiser on December 07, 2011, 05:07:12 PM
what is the trick behind the magic of (and it's like... trial number 2? damn -.-,) qcf.K, hcb.f.A.C ? i'm swearing the demo cancel into the animation of qcf.K but i can't didn't that!!!
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: milesw on December 07, 2011, 05:18:21 PM
Trial 2 skippage :D
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: sociald on December 08, 2011, 02:59:07 AM
what is the trick behind the magic of (and it's like... trial number 2? damn -.-,) qcf.K, hcb.f.A.C ? i'm swearing the demo cancel into the animation of qcf.K but i can't didn't that!!!

yea i was looking the demo and when i noticed it didnt need to dc the  ;dn ;df ;fd ;c i was like ... im an asshole !! yea can do it easily now but still the time of the last two  ;fd ;dn ;df ;a is tricky for the juggle but ... not that hard at all as the first time

@ mazinkaiser : i dont remember if trial 2 is something like C fB qcf b-d hcb,f a-c anyway u ll find it again later with the ex version
hint is cancel the qcf b-d at the very end of fB and do as a single fast motion once u get the time it ll not be a problem anymore
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: tastylumpia on December 09, 2011, 04:02:47 AM
qcf+K~ hcb,f+AC is gdlk btw. Probably the best use of her EX dash, you basically get a long range invincible kara command grab for only one bar that leads to a full juggle. What's great is if the react to the dash animation and try to backdash/jump in anticipation of the grab, you can punish with the DP or slap follow up.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: GuamoKun on December 09, 2011, 05:40:01 AM
I made a combo. BEHOLD THE AWESOME POWER OF SYNCHED MUSIC!

ELISABETH COMBO KOF XIII (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5VQgjqVfAc#)


COMBO NOTATION

AIR D, C, f+B, BC, C, f+B, dp+C-qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A-qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A-qcf+C, qcf+C, qcfX 2+AC-qcb hcf+BD

NOTES
-Without a jump in attack the combo does 999 damage.
-Doing her normal Etincelles (qcf+a/c)after either her EX Etincelles or Coup de Veine (dp+a/c) too early will only hit the opponent once, not allowing another Etincelles to be used.
-To correctly cancel from her "A" Coup de Veine into her "C" Etincelles, you have to perform Coup de Veine right before the opponent lands.
-MAX CANCEL her EX Noble Blanc (qcf X2+AC) in it's early frames, otherwise it will not do as much damage. (about 900 compared to 1025).
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: sibarraz on December 14, 2011, 12:55:11 AM
Could somebody explain me how I'm supposed to play elisabeth?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Dark Chaotix on December 17, 2011, 05:37:47 AM
Elis Trial.

King of Fighters XIII - Trial Mode : Elisabeth Blanctorche (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-e8gcuNQpM#ws)

Quote
1. Pretty straight forward, just have to press jD early.

2. Ugh, this was a nightmare to figure out and do. The demo trial is an illusion and idk if anyone can get the cancel as quick as it shows. Anyways, the way to do this is to cancel the qcf+B on the last frames of f+B. Then its a matter of doing the hcbf+A. Get used to it because there is a longer trial with this start in it. Just be quick and precise.

3. The demo shows elis running to connect the dp+A after dp+C, but i did the sB~dp+A method. To link the qcf+A, just have to press the A button as the dp hits. The rest of combo is self explanatory.

4. Normal jump to start this off as hyper jump or small jump wont get you the crossup. Pretty easy. Do the qcf+C as the EX grab finishes and have to hit the dp+A low so you dont super cancel the DM.

5. Trick for this one is linking the dp+A with qcf+AC. To do that, just do dp+A~AC. No need to repeat another qcf motion as it will do the DM. Also, for you to get the double qcf+C after qcf+AC you have to do the dp+A to hit low and immediately do qcf+C as qcf+AC finishes. If you dont, the second qcf+C will whiff.

6. Prob one of the hardest combo I've come across so far (Mature trial 9 is up there too with it). Getting the throw is hard enough let alone trying to figure out the rest of the combo. Same technique as above, have to do dp+A~AC and the second dp+A has to be hit low so you get the DM. Note that you can SC into the DM and its still counts as completing the trial.

7. Fairly easy. For this to work properly have to do jA as early as possible. And to tell that you have done it right, the combo counter will say 17. If it says 19 then the opponent wont float as you didnt hit them high / early enough.

8. This trial is kinda weird as I had to do 2 separate techniques for the dp+A~qcf+A. First one IS a dp+A, qcf+A. There is enough time to HDC with a qcf+A motion. The second one is done by dp+A~uf+A. For some reason, I couldnt get it to come out by pressing just 'A' on hit. Holding uf helped with that. The rest of the combo you just have to hit opponent late and HDC into SDM then into NM.

9. This combo wasnt as hard as I thought. If you have all the factors in place its not hard to do. The 2 factors in making this combo work is height and timing. after you do first dp+C, qcf+C has to be done early (even tho it looks like it is late.) and the dp+A has to be hit as low to ground as possible. This has to be done 4 times. If there arent hit low enough you will get missed qcf+C, missed dp+A and sometimes you get dp+A~dp+AC. As like the above trials, dp+A~AC is needed. Once you get timing right, its easy enough, but still easy to stuff it up.

10. Only difficult things about this one is the start and the linking of DM. The start is done by cB, cB~B+C, f+B. This will give you a sC while getting to BC mode. The DM after the sC has to be done straight away. Unlike the other float DM combos, this one you dont really have time to wait to do the DM motion. Buffering is needed. Other then that, simple.

Ask if you need more help
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on December 17, 2011, 02:11:46 PM
Okay, I need some match up help with Elisabeth.

Having a hard time dealing with Billy Kane and Terry Bogard at the moment. Billy's f+A is super annoying to deal with and outside of a random EX DP, I can't really see any way around this move. On top of that Billy's pokes are super annoying to deal with and Elisabeth's normal range is very limited. Once I get in, it's doable with a few mix ups but anything outside of that range is super difficult.

Terry Bogard's crack shoot pressure seems super retarded for me. Outside of blow backs, I can't find anyway to deal with it. The hitbox is also really good hitting me out of the air or catching the recovery of my roll and then sucking me in for the rest of the hits. I can shrink my hitbox with c.A or c.D in certain ranges but when getting pressured I can't really do much.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on December 19, 2011, 09:27:57 PM
I can't help you with Billy Kane, but I know some stuff about Terry.

Terry's B crackshoot is -2 on block. If he does it, buffer in your command throw and grab him. The D crackshoot though, that's different. You can actually throw out a low B at the right time and dodge it. You could also, before it hits you, do your EX Counter.

The best thing I can suggest you to do when he does D Crackshoot is to block standing. You see, the frame trap is when you block low. When you do that, he is at positive frames. About +2. Anything you do after that's not a command grab is going to lose to his st.C or d.B. Some people throw out crackshoot randomly or at a distance, that's the worst to expect. However, when you know they're predictably putting it in blockstrings, you can punish it.

Remember, Liz has a 1-frame command throw. An EX one means you're getting a free combo. Try it out.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Demoninja on December 20, 2011, 12:09:38 AM
Liz's command grab is not fast enough to punish Terry's crack shoot even if you stand block it. Your best bet is to learn how to consistently throw it or just block and find a chance to GCAB or GCCD it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: johrjives on December 20, 2011, 01:48:04 AM
Can you do the double dm in the corner? Or is it only near the corner?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on December 20, 2011, 01:51:43 AM
Liz's command grab is not fast enough to punish Terry's crack shoot even if you stand block it. Your best bet is to learn how to consistently throw it or just block and find a chance to GCAB or GCCD it.

If you stand block it, and your only option is a throw, you run the risk of being hit by something like a rising tackle. He'll be in the air at the same frame you'll get out of blockstun. I will admit I do not play Elizabeth so my assumption that her command grab is one frame is wrong. However, if you do have a character that does have an instant command throw, you can punish Terry. That is Benimaru, Maxima, Daimon, Clark, Kyo's EX grab, Vice, Kensou's grab DM, Hwa, or Yuri. I would suggest to anyone that if they're working on the wiki to change Mistral's description to not say "Instant Command throw".

If you're going to use meter to GCAB or GCCD, you might as well counter. You could do your Elizabeth's C DP and hit him. Without using any meter, you can, again, do d.B and make him whiff the crackshoot entirely. Elizabeth can combo her d.B, d.A  starter into dp+A. Even with my inability to play Elizabeth, I can still punish Terry by doing d.B (whiff), d.B, d.A, qcf+P which is about 10% for making Terry whiff his move. If you can do the DP (because I'm rolling my stick along the gates, I end up doing a super because of double df inputs), you can go into a full combo.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on December 20, 2011, 10:59:30 PM
I was testing sample block strings into B/D Crack Shoot and Elisabeth can punish with her Command Grab, but it's spacing dependent. Basically, a simple c.A, c.B, c.C xx B Crack Shoot puts him outside of command grab range. If Terry is using crack shoot while you are in the corner it's a free command grab, which should indicate that the command grab is 1f. If he does a block string into crack shoot that puts him right next to Elisabeth he gets command grabbed. I've tested this by recording the training dummy to do a block string into crack shoot then hold up.

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on December 21, 2011, 11:04:53 AM
I'm pretty sure it's not one frame. The reason you might be able to grab him is because you have to cancel the animation he goes into where he adjusts his hat. If he does nothing afterwards, he's free to command grab. That's the same with jumping. He can't do it right away. The best way I can tell you if it's one frame or not is if Terry does a move that instantly puts him in the air. That would be rising tackle. If you make the dummy do rising tackle the second he reaches the ground, that'll do it.

I did test this and I promise you that I could not punish Terry if he does a rising tackle or even a st.C
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: desmond_kof on December 21, 2011, 09:27:15 PM
For all the Liz players:

KOFⅩⅢ 練習対戦研究実況プレイ 009 エリザベート(Elisabeth Master Class) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzh14ZVWhY#ws)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: sibarraz on December 29, 2011, 03:21:01 AM
Well, I had to ask how viable is to try some mind games with your opponent after a command grab, in a sense that you can look for a normal jump attack or a crossup

There is some kind of video teaching you how to time this as a possible setup

Also, I think that is vital to learn how to combo this from her command attack
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: The-priest on December 30, 2011, 11:50:56 AM
Thought i would post this here, can be done anywhere on the screen.

Kof xiii elizabeth neo max setup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clEvKlSyrJo#)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Diavle on December 30, 2011, 03:45:56 PM
^Wow, that's interesting.

Was going to try her soon and will definitely incorporate that.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: SummyG on January 04, 2012, 11:06:19 AM
what do you guys think of c,6a, qcf+K ,qcf+A as a block string? if you delay the qcf+A it becomes a frame trap, but beside that it combos. has anyone tried something similar in matches at all?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 09, 2012, 06:48:23 PM
Do you guys still think doing stray hits into Grand Rafale is still worth meter after it's damage nerfs? Doing that is like maybe 20% damage and a hard knockdown. It's worth doing if they are low on health but I feel the meter is better saved for EX QCB or QCF+K or drive cancel combos that corner carry. Just comparing Elisabeth plays and I noticed TheAnswer will save his meter to take advantage of her other options or drive cancel combos, while a lot of other people still play her like the arcade version.

what do you guys think of c,6a, qcf+K ,qcf+A as a block string? if you delay the qcf+A it becomes a frame trap, but beside that it combos. has anyone tried something similar in matches at all?

Are you saying s.C, 6B, QCF+K, QCF+A? This is a pretty standard block string but it's not 100% safe. 6A is not a command normal and will whiff on crouching opponents (which is still useful for doing something like c.B, s.A (whiff), Mistral).

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: SummyG on January 10, 2012, 09:08:02 AM

Are you saying s.C, 6B, QCF+K, QCF+A? This is a pretty standard block string but it's not 100% safe. 6A is not a command normal and will whiff on crouching opponents (which is still useful for doing something like c.B, s.A (whiff), Mistral).



my bad, I meant 6b not 6a. Let me rephrase that question. following a C, 6B... block string, what are some good options following the command dash?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: NeoTrinity on January 10, 2012, 09:36:39 AM
I have a serious question about Elisabeth....How the hell do you play her?  

As of now my team is Leona/King/Elisabeth and while I have her on anchor for obvious reasons, when it comes down to her I can never seem to play well unless my opponents makes mistakes, and LOTS of them.  I'm ashamed to say this too.  I mean I can do her combos such as "St. C -> F. B -> Magical Goodness" and I have HD combos with her but my problem is using them.  I cannot seem to get at hit confirm on her bnbs and most of the time I'm using hop/jump D trying to get that hit confirm.  I try to hop/jump C+D as well for a juggle with her super as well.  

I'll break it down to one scenario.  My friend plays Mai/Athena/Yuri in that order.  Usually, since we both are evenly matched, it comes down to an even anchor match between Yuri and Elisabeth.  His Yuri's rushdown scares the piss outta me and I always get antsy about that crossup divekick of hers during block strings.  If its not that, then its the command grab or I'm getting hit due to frame traps and me pressing buttons.  :(  HOWEVER, When I do beat him, atleast to me, it feels like I cheesed him out with a lucky/random EX Dp or a lucky/well placed EX command grab into more magical goodness.  All this stems from me not knowing how to play her.  It's really frustrating and I don't wanna drop her(especially because of the time I put in with her and my liking the character as well) but I really just need a crash course on how to play her.  

For the record, I have watched videos with good people playing her but they do not really help me grasp it for some reason.  

ANYWAY, sorry for the tl;dr but I would really appreciate the help if anyone would so courteous.  
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 11, 2012, 01:18:01 AM
I'm actually in the middle of writing a comprehensive guide to Elisabeth covering everything that I know. It's going to take a while to complete since I'm trying to be as thorough as possible.

Personally, I have trouble against Yuri as Elisabeth since the answers to her dive kick pressure require reading your opponent and taking some risks. Obviously, the best way to stop that dive kick pressure is to not get put into it but easier said then done. This all being said Yuri is realllllyyyy good and I think she's an underrated character, at the moment. It feels like within a few months she'll be considered top tier.

Anyways, I'm not an expert player or an expert Elisabeth, but I can only give insights from my own experiences, as well as my analysis from other Elisabeth players I've seen. Essentially, I find the character to be very passive aggressive during the neutral game until she can find the right space to start her offensive pressure, which always leads into the corner.

From what I've seen of Arcade version Elisabeth, she was solid in any position. This was mostly because she was a high damage character that was easy on your resources. She could play passive aggressively and control a lot of key space with j.CD, j.D, s.A, s.C, cl.s.D and Etincelle's, which built a lot of meter. This was frustrating to the opponent as it made them second guess their approach as any stray hit would lead into Grand Rafale. Basically, you maximized on damage with minimalist play.

Right now, I'm still seeing a lot of people play Elisabeth in this manner (except for TheAnswer), and while this still works it doesn't seem to be the most optimal way to play her. I feel the console changes force her to be played in a different manner. Seems like she needs to burn meter for options or to deal the 500+ damage she use to deal in the arcade version. Personally, I will burn meter and drive when I land a solid hit because it's always 500+ damage into a corner carry combo that leaves the opponent in an aerial reset state for a mix up.

The standard combos I go for are:

0 bar, 0 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, j.C or small hop j.A for particular mix ups

0 bar, 1 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, DC, QCF+K, QCF+C, A DP, A DP, j.C

1 bar, 1 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, DC, EX QCF+P, QCF+K, QCF+C, A DP, A DP, j.C

While you can end any of these combos with Grand Rafale for a bit more damage and a hard knockdown I tend to prefer the mix up you get with the aerial reset. On top of that I find the damage scaling after wards to be a waste of meter (let me know if I'm wrong on this).

HD Combo:
I only go for HD if they're near the corner
3 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCFx2+P, Neomax (850ish damage)

4 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neomax (900ish damage)

s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], EX QCF+P, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCFx2+P, Neomax (850-900ish damage)

5 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], EX QCF+P, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neomax (1000+ damage)

I find if you can hit confirm from an C Etincelle (both hits or just the 2nd hit), anti-air Etincelle, CH j.CD, and CH A Etincelle you can really capitalize on the damage output for Elisabeth. All of those moves can lead into A DP into a full juggle combo, which puts your opponent back into the aerial reset state for a mix up.

To me, I find this to be the optimal play for Elisabeth. It's bascally using the passive aggressive play to find the optimal space to launch my offense and any hit is going to lead into a juggle corner carry combo leaving you in a reset state. In this manner, a full combo into a mix up will always kill the opponent as the subsequent combo should be dealing 400-500 damage as well. This is why I find Elisabeth to be better suited for 2nd or 3rd position but I tend to shy away from placing her in 3rd position as I don't feel Elisabeth covers enough match ups if she gets put into a reverse OCV situation. I'd rather have her 2nd to deal as much damage as possible so that my anchor has the best chances to finish off the opponent or in a worst case scenario be able to have the tools to reverse OCV.

In terms of mix ups, here's what I've discovered:

s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, small hop j.a, run underneath or in front of your opponent
-s.C, f+B into a full combo if the opponent guesses wrong on your position
-Throw or Command Grab (have to wait a bit as the opponent has an unthrowable window upon landing)
-Meaty c.B, link into s.C into a full combo (meaty specific combo)
-Delay the run and then do a delayed EX DP to beat certain reversals (very match up specific). This is more effective in the corner when the opponent wants to jump to escape a command grab or out space a bad jump in
-Counter or EX Counter to bait something from your opponent
-Do nothing and bait out a reversal

s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, j.C, land
-A deep normal jump j.B cross up
-Small jump j.B (harder to see and react to but very one dimensional)
-Empty small hop into Throw, Mistral, or low
-Throw or Command Grab (have to wait a bit as the opponent has an unthrowable window upon landing)
-Meaty c.B, link into s.C into a full combo (meaty specific combo)
-Counter or EX Counter to bait something from your opponent
-Do nothing and bait out a reversal.

Any of the meter and drive cancel combos I listed can lead into the j.C/A, small jump j.B mix up as well. They will all put the opponent in the corner so cross up or cross over stuff won't apply. For the most part the majority of the mix up games I listed above are applicable. Additionally, you gain access to the following meaty setup:
-Meaty QCF+C, off a j.C they have more time to recognize and escape the meaty with a roll or reversal. Off of a j.A only the tail end of the 2nd hit of QCF+C will connect. If it's blocked it leaves you at around +1 or neutral. If it hits you can go into DP+A into a drive combo for 400-500damage.

A lot of the mix ups are the same in each set up but there's a lot of subsequent mind games that come from the aerial reset states.

c.B, c.B, c.A (whiff), whiff cancel into EX/QCF+K:
-EX/QCF+P - If you do the EX version of the command dash any special move done during a certain time window will be EX moves for free. A, C, or EX Etincelle will catch back dashes or jumps and will lead into A DP for a full juggle combo
-EX/Mistral - From the regular mistral you can wait for your opponent to land, then take a step forward and roll behind them for a mix up.
-EX/DP+P - Catch back dashes or people pushing buttons. More risky as the DP can be stuffed with normals, certain reversals, or be avoided with rolls or neutral jumps. On top of that blocked C and EX DP's are unsafe.

j.CD, small jump j.B cross up.
-Hit confirm into a full juggle combo

I guess this is a modification to how she played in the arcade. The way I'm playing Elisabeth is controlling space with specific normals or specials to land a juggle combo into a reset situation then utilizing a series of specific mind games to finish the opponent off in two or more mix ups.

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sharnt on January 11, 2012, 08:07:20 PM
This all being said Yuri is realllllyyyy good and I think she's an underrated character, at the moment. It feels like within a few months she'll be considered top tier.
She's already toptier :>
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 13, 2012, 05:45:58 PM
If you missed out on TheAnswer's stream on Wednesday, Romance showed a new 100% combo with Elisabeth for 4 meters.

deep j.C, close s.C, f+B, HD, far s.C xx DP+C, (opponents in the corner), QCF+C, [DP+A, [HDC], QCF+C (1 hit), QCF+C] x3, EX QCFx2+P, Neo Max [1023 damage]

TheAnswer commented on the combo saying that when Romance cancelled into NeoMax on the first hit of the super, the super remains active and hits the opponent alongside the Neomax. I played around with this more and it doesn't matter when you cancel into the Neomax the super will remain active regardless and the damage output doesn't change.

The one thing I don't understand in this combo is how to get into far s.C range after the HD activation. The dash you get after the activation always puts Elisabeth too close to the opponent, and if I delay the activation so that a s.C comes out automatically Elisabeth is too close to the opponent and gets a close s.C anyways. If anyone has some insight on this please let me know.

The combo won't kill unless you land the j.C and the far s.C. If you get the j.C and a close s.C it'll only do 996 damage. In terms of timing with this combo I didn't find it too bad. The DP+A's have to hit deep so when you drive cancel into QCF+C it doesn't whiff. It's the same height for when you try to land the triple DP combo or drive cancel into EX Etincelle. It's easier to get the timing for the DP+A if you delay the second QCF+C so that it hits the opponent lower to the ground.

The super timing is a bit weird for me, I saw Romance do it as soon as possible and get the full damage but when I was playing around with the combo I needed to delay the super so it hits in the middle of the opponent to get the full damage. It's feels that if the super hits too deep, like at the opponents back, you don't get all of the hits of the super and you end up getting 800+ damage instead.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Dark Chaotix on January 15, 2012, 12:25:04 PM
The one thing I don't understand in this combo is how to get into far s.C range after the HD activation. The dash you get after the activation always puts Elisabeth too close to the opponent, and if I delay the activation so that a s.C comes out automatically Elisabeth is too close to the opponent and gets a close s.C anyways. If anyone has some insight on this please let me know.

Hold back while going into HD (sC, f+B, b+BC etc etc). This will cancel the auto dash and give you your far sC. You dont need to delay the activation but the timing to get the far sC is not too hard.

EDIT: I just tried the combo and all my attempts got me 53 hits - exactly 1000dmg. Does he do it on counter hit? Can you link me the vid so i can see it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 16, 2012, 03:40:07 AM
The one thing I don't understand in this combo is how to get into far s.C range after the HD activation. The dash you get after the activation always puts Elisabeth too close to the opponent, and if I delay the activation so that a s.C comes out automatically Elisabeth is too close to the opponent and gets a close s.C anyways. If anyone has some insight on this please let me know.

Hold back while going into HD (sC, f+B, b+BC etc etc). This will cancel the auto dash and give you your far sC. You dont need to delay the activation but the timing to get the far sC is not too hard.

EDIT: I just tried the combo and all my attempts got me 53 hits - exactly 1000dmg. Does he do it on counter hit? Can you link me the vid so i can see it.

http://www.twitch.tv/theanswerkof/b/305224630 (http://www.twitch.tv/theanswerkof/b/305224630)

Around 22minute mark. I misread the damage output. It does 53 hits for 1003/1004 damage (hard to tell with the stream quality).

I was able to get the far s.C with your method. To add to it, it seems like you have to cancel into HD relatively quickly to get the far s.C to hit consistently. If you wait for the f+B animation to finish the far s.C tends to whiff. There's some weird tricks you can do to still get it to connect but for consistency I prefer cancelling the f+B into HD as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Dark Chaotix on January 16, 2012, 02:52:33 PM
I dont think i do anything like delay or quickly. I just do it like Im doing a normal HD combo, but thats just me.

Its quite good given the damage boost you get from it as it is better than sC, f+B. It would be even better for a player that can hit confirm with it into a HD combo...
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 16, 2012, 05:47:43 PM
I dont think i do anything like delay or quickly. I just do it like Im doing a normal HD combo, but thats just me.

Its quite good given the damage boost you get from it as it is better than sC, f+B. It would be even better for a player that can hit confirm with it into a HD combo...


Hmm...I'll have to play around with the timing some more then.

In any case, the s.C, f+B started should be a long enough hit confirm to go into HD far s.C, etc... I quite like this combo because it's more consistent for me to get DP+A, HDC, QCF+C then DP+A, HDC, QCF+K, QCF+C. I get some inconsistencies with the latter on the 2nd rep then just delaying my DP+A to HDC into QCF+C. The other HD combos I posted have better corner carry capabilities but you can still land this combo from midscreen to corner.

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 17, 2012, 04:53:13 AM
The Answer was streaming earlier last week with Bala.

http://www.twitch.tv/theanswerkof/b/305399215 (http://www.twitch.tv/theanswerkof/b/305399215)

Around the 17 minute mark they get some matches going. Bala is using Elisabeth, EX Iori, Ryo throughout these sets. I really like how he was utilizing the command dash to keep offensive momentum going, as well as mind games. It's like he keeps projecting a constant threat between command grab, counter, or Etincelle, and it's in such quick succession that it's hard to read & react to. A few good reads on the Elisabeth players part and it's a total mind fuck to the opponent.

Another thing I like from his play is that he recognizes his mistakes quickly and doesn't let it faze his momentum, and instead uses it for a resets or mind games. For example, he lands a AA Etincelle, recognizes the hit and follows up with DP+A, then goes for the j.D juggle but misses it. Rather then getting fazed by this, he lands, runs up to TheAnswer and then command grabs his tech roll recovery.

Also, noticed using f+B and whiff cancelling it into the command grab for additional mind games. A lot of corner set ups for this and there's a mix with counters to catch people pushing buttons. A lot of good things to take note of.

EDIT: Okay, at the 18:37 mark in that stream Bala does f+B whiff, and whiff cancels it early into command grab. How the hell do you do this? It's surprisingly difficult when I tried this at home.

EDIT: I bugged TheAnswer on his twitter to see how to do this and he said it's Elisabeth's s.CD that he was whiff cancelling into the command grab.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Dark Chaotix on January 17, 2012, 11:30:23 AM
I cant watch stuff on twitch very well so cant comment, but Id assume that the points in his game you made were intended / guessed the opponent right or he option selected somehow.

What I meant by hit confirm was to start combo from a far sC into HD, not with sC, f+B etc.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 17, 2012, 05:34:09 PM
I cant watch stuff on twitch very well so cant comment, but Id assume that the points in his game you made were intended / guessed the opponent right or he option selected somehow.

What I meant by hit confirm was to start combo from a far sC into HD, not with sC, f+B etc.

Ah yes...you would maximize damage if you hit confirmed from the far s.C. I think far s.C does 20 points more damage then close s.C. Really hard to hit confirm in time or good for known guaranteed punishes. You could also option select HD since you can't HD off of whiff normals. For example, you could be at a range where far s.C will whiff but willl whiff punish a normal from the opponent. You could OS HD your far s.C and if your opponent happens to throw a button out at that range they could be eating a HD combo.

In terms of Bala's Elisabeth play, I feel he plays her similar to how he plays Clark. It's just really good spacing and a series of really good reads on the opponent.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 18, 2012, 03:51:22 AM
Uh wow...This is probably the most brain dead HD combo in the game and it does 900 damage.

cl. s.C, f+B, HD, far s.C, DP+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neo Max.

It's really funny because if you tack on a DP+A after the DP+C it scales the rest of the combo to 600-800 damage depending on how deep you hit the EX super.

This means a simple combo into a reset = a dead character when you have 4 bars.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Mienaikage on January 18, 2012, 01:15:37 PM
Noticing a lot of big combos in this thread, but not a lot of options outside of starting with ;c, ;fd ;b so how about some stuff starting with low moves?

Basic everywhere blockstring:
;dn ;b, ;dn ;a xx ;dn ;df ;fd ;a

Can go into Grand Rafale on hit, on block you're also at a good distance to go for ;fd ;dn ;df ;a for a surprise launch. Can also switch the ;dn ;df ;fd ;a with ;dn ;df ;fd ;b to go for a grab.

In the corner you can follow up with far ;c then Grand Rafale, or if you have enough meter to finish your opponent you can HD cancel the far ;c, Grand Rafale into Neomax while still on the ground, then follow up with another Grand Rafale or EX Noble Blanche (if I remember correctly the regular Noble Blanche is out of range if your opponent is in the corner because Neomax in the corner moves you backwards)

Alternative midscreen blockstring:
;dn ;b, ;b xx ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (continue combo)

I find doing ;dn ;b, ;dn ;a xx ;fd ;dn ;df ;a is near impossible, so opted for the kicks instead, you have to be closer to the opponent for the standing ;b to connect though.

Basic combo options would be to follow with another ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, jumping move, Grand Rafale, or if you have the meter just go straight into the EX Noble Blanche.

You can start a HD here from far ;c after ;fd ;dn ;df ;a exactly the same way as corner basic version, however this one will work anywhere. The timing after the ;fd ;dn ;df ;a is quite tight, but luckily you won't HD cancel if you whiff. HD is similar to before, Grand Rafale into Neomax while you're still on the ground, followed by Regular (now that you're midscreen) or EX Noble Blanche. You can also do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, jump attack if you're lacking the meter. Don't do this into Grand Rafale unless the moves you just did gave you the meter to do so because the Noble Blanche will do more damage.

These HD options won't do as much damage as the others, but the addition of the low moves means you're more likely to land them.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 19, 2012, 10:08:56 AM
You can essentially swap s.C->f.B with c.B, c.A instead or c.B, c.B for an HD starter.

Hell, some of the juggle combos can be started with CH j.CD, CH A Etincelle, C Etincelle, EX Etincelle, AA Etincelle, EX command grab, etc... I find learning these hit confirms are really important as you'll most likely land one of these then opening the opponent up.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: NeoTrinity on January 23, 2012, 07:35:40 AM
Killey, Thanks for that information.  Since that day I have been leveling up my Elisabeth and now I have a solid idea on how to play her.  I used to think her normals sucked but now I take full advantage of them when I can.


Also I have uploaded a simple video on how to do a nice amount of damage with Elisabeth given 4 meters an HD.  Since I run her on anchor and try to be careful about my meter I tend to be in this situation more than not.  While the combo is not as extravagant as most, I feel that it's simplicity and damage output is good if you wanna just get rid of a character quickly and not have to worry about dropping the combo.  Anyways here it is: 

Elisabeth Branctorche 89.5% Combo(HD +4 Meters) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AZT7Rk2vYY#ws)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 23, 2012, 06:00:11 PM
Killey, Thanks for that information.  Since that day I have been leveling up my Elisabeth and now I have a solid idea on how to play her.  I used to think her normals sucked but now I take full advantage of them when I can.

No problem.
I think I have to revise my statements after I saw Bala play Elisabeth. There's another dynamic to her game involving her command grab. I find it's hard to make that work unless you're really good at making reads on your opponent.

Quote
Also I have uploaded a simple video on how to do a nice amount of damage with Elisabeth given 4 meters an HD.  Since I run her on anchor and try to be careful about my meter I tend to be in this situation more than not.  While the combo is not as extravagant as most, I feel that it's simplicity and damage output is good if you wanna just get rid of a character quickly and not have to worry about dropping the combo.  Anyways here it is:  

Elisabeth Branctorche 89.5% Combo(HD +4 Meters) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AZT7Rk2vYY#ws)

If you omit the 2nd f+B you can squeeze out 3 more damage in that combo. lol If you can get the far s.C you'll push the damage to 900. Doing something this simple is perfectly fine because most of the long combos I posted deal the same damage or slightly less while this is very simple and high damage. On top of that you'll be building less meter and drive your opponent as well so there's a lot of incentive to keeping it simple.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sanctuary on January 27, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
Does anyone know maybe an easier way to whiff cancel CD into command grab? Ive been experimenting and so far the best way was to go  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;c ;d~ ;a or  ;c. But I'm not consistent at it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 27, 2012, 06:01:11 PM
Does anyone know maybe an easier way to whiff cancel CD into command grab? Ive been experimenting and so far the best way was to go  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;c ;d~ ;a or  ;c. But I'm not consistent at it.

I just do it normally as in s.CD, HCB~F+P. As far as I know, you can't use this to kara the command grab and extend the range at point blank distances.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sanctuary on January 27, 2012, 08:38:51 PM
Does anyone know maybe an easier way to whiff cancel CD into command grab? Ive been experimenting and so far the best way was to go  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;c ;d~ ;a or  ;c. But I'm not consistent at it.

I just do it normally as in s.CD, HCB~F+P. As far as I know, you can't use this to kara the command grab and extend the range at point blank distances.

Guess illl try to do it faster then, but my objective was to fake-out the opponent not kara-cancel. Thanks.
Title: New Player...
Post by: Captain Soviet on February 01, 2012, 04:41:55 AM
On Elizabeth's BnB, I'm having trouble landing the j. ;d. Is there any specific timing on do have a particular jump or hop?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sharnt on February 01, 2012, 01:49:51 PM
I was used to push 9 and keep the position after the dp. To jump as soon as possible on arcade, don't know if it still works.
Title: Re: New Player...
Post by: tastylumpia on February 03, 2012, 04:27:52 PM
On Elizabeth's BnB, I'm having trouble landing the j. ;d. Is there any specific timing on do have a particular jump or hop?

It's a jump (not hop) upforward midscreen, straight jump up in the corner. You have to hit it early before they tech in the air.

For those who don't know, there's a shortcut for EX dash ~ command grab. You can input the grab as 360(clockwise). Thanks to Chris-tan for the info.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on February 06, 2012, 08:25:14 AM
For the BnB, I prefer to use her j.C instead of her j.D. Her j.C has a higher hitbox so it doesn't whiff as much as j.D and it deals more damage as well.

Command Dash into Command grab can be done with the following method as well:

236+K (command dash), 2146+P (command grab)

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Atb_555 on February 13, 2012, 02:01:30 PM
Ok does Etincelles have any weakness at all?  I can understand the C version having slower recovery but in general:

- It has a huge hit box
- Beats lows
- Nulifies fbs
- Great AA which if score a counter hit can lead into decent damaging combo

Other than invincible move, special or super I feel like you cant do jack against it.  
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on February 13, 2012, 05:53:46 PM
Etincelle's don't cover Elisabeth's lower hurt box (waist down) so if you are spacing yourself correctly you can just trip her. I believe they are also considered a projectile so any projectile invicible move will beat it. I find trying to AA with Etincelle's on reaction is difficult and any mistiming means you eat a combo. Also, you can punish the recovery of whiffed Etincelle's with some supers, neomaxes, or ex moves. It's mostly watching your opponent's habits with Etincelle if they get too spam happy with it. 

All of this being said, the move is really good at controlling the space in front and slightly above Elisabeth. A Etincelle's on CH or as an AA will lead into her full drive cancel juggle combos for about 500 damage that corner carries and leaves you in an aerial reset state. It's hard to visually hit confirm into that max damage combo but if you do land it, it's a complete momentum shift in your favor off of something simple.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Atb_555 on February 13, 2012, 09:39:47 PM
Thx for the reply. I managed to snag in some casuals against TheAnswers Elizabeth and as someone who has minimal experience against her he was spamming qcf + p. I fairly sure I tried to sweep it with K' and lost clean. I'm going to experiment in training mode later too ill to move x_x
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: solidronin on February 21, 2012, 03:35:16 AM
Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, dp+A, j.C = 286 Damage, 36 Stun

This. Can anyone gimme me any advice on how to land that third DP?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: irfaanator on February 21, 2012, 06:27:43 AM
I also had a question about the combo that contains
dp C, dp A, DC qcf K, qcf C.

I am not getting the this combo because right after i do qcf K i either get the counter move since they are facing the wrong way or the qcf C does not hit? Is there something that I am missing? I am trying to do this combo mid screen since it doesnt really say anything about it being corner specific.

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on February 21, 2012, 05:43:26 PM
Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, dp+A, j.C = 286 Damage, 36 Stun

This. Can anyone gimme me any advice on how to land that third DP?

I put it some execution tips in the wiki for this but essentially you are looking to hit the first dp+A as deep/late as possible so that the 2nd dp+A will hit. In order to do this you can either eyeball it or use a s.B whiff then whiff cancel into dp+A to get the timing down.

I also had a question about the combo that contains
dp C, dp A, DC qcf K, qcf C.

I am not getting the this combo because right after i do qcf K i either get the counter move since they are facing the wrong way or the qcf C does not hit? Is there something that I am missing? I am trying to do this combo mid screen since it doesnt really say anything about it being corner specific.

In order to get the qcf+C to hit after the qcf+K you need to hit the dp+A as late as possible. Read the above to understand the timing of the dp+A.

Once I finish the wiki I was planning on making some Elisabeth tutorial videos but not sure if I'll be able to get around to it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: solidronin on February 21, 2012, 08:05:36 PM
Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, dp+A, j.C = 286 Damage, 36 Stun

This. Can anyone gimme me any advice on how to land that third DP?

I put it some execution tips in the wiki for this but essentially you are looking to hit the first dp+A as deep/late as possible so that the 2nd dp+A will hit. In order to do this you can either eyeball it or use a s.B whiff then whiff cancel into dp+A to get the timing down.



Ya know I saw that but somehow read it as the first DP+A. Thank you.

EDIT:
Quote
In order to get the qcf+C to hit after the qcf+K you need to hit the dp+A as late as possible. Read the above to understand the timing of the dp+A.

This also helped me out, thanks again
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Lethalmind on February 21, 2012, 08:54:39 PM
Coincidentally, I noticed the 1 drive meter combos listing the dp+A, (DC) qcf+k, qcf+C, but what about dp+A, (DC) qcf+A as another variation? Does the potential command overlap make it impractical? Even though I don't use the shortcut, I feel as though the shortcut makes it easy to land if there's any doubt. Just like the combo in the wiki, the issue with landing the dp+A as low as possible still remains.

Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, (DC) qcf+A, dp+A, dp+A, j.C does 367 damage, 48 stun, and also works anywhere on screen.

Also, I noticed 1 small thing in the wiki. In the "0 Stock, No Drive Gauge" combo section, the corner combo is missing the dp+C before the qcf+C.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: irfaanator on February 21, 2012, 09:19:18 PM

Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, dp+A, j.C = 286 Damage, 36 Stun

This. Can anyone gimme me any advice on how to land that third DP?

I put it some execution tips in the wiki for this but essentially you are looking to hit the first dp+A as deep/late as possible so that the 2nd dp+A will hit. In order to do this you can either eyeball it or use a s.B whiff then whiff cancel into dp+A to get the timing down.

I also had a question about the combo that contains
dp C, dp A, DC qcf K, qcf C.

I am not getting the this combo because right after i do qcf K i either get the counter move since they are facing the wrong way or the qcf C does not hit? Is there something that I am missing? I am trying to do this combo mid screen since it doesnt really say anything about it being corner specific.

In order to get the qcf+C to hit after the qcf+K you need to hit the dp+A as late as possible. Read the above to understand the timing of the dp+A.

Once I finish the wiki I was planning on making some Elisabeth tutorial videos but not sure if I'll be able to get around to it.

Thanks for the tips
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: desmond_kof on February 21, 2012, 09:52:21 PM

Once I finish the wiki I was planning on making some Elisabeth tutorial videos but not sure if I'll be able to get around to it.

Do it man, that would be dope!
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on February 22, 2012, 04:37:23 AM
I don't mind doing a tutorial video series for Elisabeth but I don't have the equipment to do that but I know a friend who does. It's kind of a hassle to get all of that setup but if I have time I'll try to make one.

Coincidentally, I noticed the 1 drive meter combos listing the dp+A, (DC) qcf+k, qcf+C, but what about dp+A, (DC) qcf+A as another variation? Does the potential command overlap make it impractical? Even though I don't use the shortcut, I feel as though the shortcut makes it easy to land if there's any doubt. Just like the combo in the wiki, the issue with landing the dp+A as low as possible still remains.

Close st.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, (DC) qcf+A, dp+A, dp+A, j.C does 367 damage, 48 stun, and also works anywhere on screen.

Also, I noticed 1 small thing in the wiki. In the "0 Stock, No Drive Gauge" combo section, the corner combo is missing the dp+C before the qcf+C.

Yes, you could use that alternate combo and I'll list in the wiki as well. I haven't written done the damage and stun values yet for the qcf+k, qcf+C combo yet so I can't say which one is better, at the moment.

Execution wise both combos are about the same in difficulty because they both require a deep dp+A for the rest of the combo to work. It's whatever your more comfortable with but I'm looking for optimal damage each time.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: MysticShadow1453 on February 29, 2012, 02:47:06 PM
im having a hard time as elisabeth against people who just jump at me. what am i supposed to do in these situations? It feels like she can control ground space so well but the air is kinda free to her opponents unless you preemptively do etincelle. is this the case? I feel like there has to be more to this.

Also after DP or Etincelle on block what are my best options? I know its slightly negative but I can never figure out what I'm supposed to do.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on March 03, 2012, 12:43:49 AM
im having a hard time as elisabeth against people who just jump at me. what am i supposed to do in these situations? It feels like she can control ground space so well but the air is kinda free to her opponents unless you preemptively do etincelle. is this the case? I feel like there has to be more to this.

Also after DP or Etincelle on block what are my best options? I know its slightly negative but I can never figure out what I'm supposed to do.

Yeah, I don't think she has good reactionary anti-airs. It's mostly going to be distance dependent and reacting accordingly.

If they are small jumping in your face then you have close s.C/D, or s.A to anti-air them but this is mostly done in anticipation of a small jump then reacting to it.

Normal Jumps or Super Jumps from a distance can be anti-aired with a trip guard c.B, or run under them and do a close s.D. You could also use c.C but it's pretty slow and can get stuffed. It'll depend on when the opponent attacks in the air.

In terms of special/desperation moves, her EX Etincelle is pretty much as close as you're going to get to a reactionary anti-air special move. EX Coup de Vent can sometimes act as an anti-air but more often then not it'll get stuffed or they'll block in time. A Etincelle has to be done sooner then later to act as an anti-air or using it to make reads in certain pressure situations. Her counter moves will let you get out of bad positioning while EX counter will let you get a free combo but these are susceptible to empty jump punishes.  Both of her desperation moves can anti-air and in fact her qcfx2+P does a good job of doing that.

After blocked DP's or Etincelle's you're not looking for a way in because of the frame disadvantage you're at. You pretty much ended your offense once you've done either of those moves. At that point you have to reposition yourself for your next set of offense unless you make a good read on your opponents next move.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Mienaikage on March 03, 2012, 05:37:41 PM
I though standing ;a would do a decent job at anti air. Might not be very damaging but it does stop them. Also if you cancel it into ;dn ;df ;fd ;a it will connect if you CH.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: jp_ftw on April 04, 2012, 06:46:13 PM
Hey everyone! I'm totally new to KoF. I picked it up this week after watching some tourneys and my local guys playing it. I'm loving it right now, but I have a question about execution with Elisabeth.

For her  ;fd ;dn ;df ;a [DC]  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a I'm having a hard time not getting her DM when trying to drive cancel into the QCF. Is there any execution tips you all have for me?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on April 04, 2012, 06:52:52 PM
I don't play elizabeth, but you have the same problem with K'.

See, when you usually do a dp on a stick, you'll sometimes hit forward. Like this  ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd. When you try to do qcf  ;dn ;df ;fd, the game registers that as a shortcut because the qcf in the previous motion is read. So it does the super.

What you can do are three options:

You can do ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd and double tap the button very fast. This requires a bit of timing on button pressing, some have even suggested using the same strategy SSF4 players use for plinking, but how you do it is up to you.

You can shortcut the DP by making it hcb,f+P. This is not really a shortcut, but a LONGcut. For Elizabeth, you can do hcb, uf+P or hcb,df+P and that should give you the dp without doing her command grab.

The last method is perfect execution of the move. That means, without letting go of the stick, you go do the DP into the fireball motion. That takes some practice as you have to move the stick backwards to neutral down and do your fireball, but it's possible as long as you don't let the stick go (It usually hits forward if you do.)

It all requires practice, but I'm sure you're no stranger to it. Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on April 04, 2012, 07:12:16 PM
The easiest method to drive cancel off of her DP is to use the ;fd  ;dn ;df ;fd option, and then you just need to figure out the button timing. Timing wise, I just immediately press the corresponding button(s) as soon as I press the punch button for the DP. The only overlap that might occur with this method is if you are cancelling into her EX Etincelle, as you might get EX DP instead. From my experiences you can avoid that from happening by ending the shortcut with ;uf instead of ;fd.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Terrastorm on April 19, 2012, 08:16:40 AM
Can anyone explain Liz's crossup setup with neutral jump b, I see the answer and Romance do it all the time.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on April 19, 2012, 07:10:27 PM
Can anyone explain Liz's crossup setup with neutral jump b, I see the answer and Romance do it all the time.

I'm not sure which setup you are referring to but I can hazard a guess.

After comboing 2 A Coup de Vent (DP+A), if you do a hyper hop j.A you end up landing behind your opponent for split second. You can do a hop j.B after wards and depending on the timing you'll get an ambiguous cross-up or not. Adding a delay to the hop makes it look like Elisabeth hits in the reverse direction that she jumped from. If you do the combo too close to the corner and you do a neutral hop j.B it'll be a really ambiguous cross-up/not cross-up.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Terrastorm on April 20, 2012, 08:50:47 AM
Can anyone explain Liz's crossup setup with neutral jump b, I see the answer and Romance do it all the time.

I'm not sure which setup you are referring to but I can hazard a guess.

After comboing 2 A Coup de Vent (DP+A), if you do a hyper hop j.A you end up landing behind your opponent for split second. You can do a hop j.B after wards and depending on the timing you'll get an ambiguous cross-up or not. Adding a delay to the hop makes it look like Elisabeth hits in the reverse direction that she jumped from. If you do the combo too close to the corner and you do a neutral hop j.B it'll be a really ambiguous cross-up/not cross-up.
Thanks, that is exactly what I was asking for..
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: choysauce on May 10, 2012, 01:44:25 AM
i think elisabeth is definitely reliant on her pressure/throw game and good hop spacing.

but i think having more setups with cross ups/unders and resets will make her game ridiculous. especially since going for super at the end of combos are not really worth the meter.

one unpractical one that i have is as follows.
regular throw midscreen > 1 step back > sj.D (only works if they don't tech roll. nobody does that =P)

some that are more obvious.
-j.D/roll after qcf,hcb+P super
-j.D/roll after command grab

run under
cr.B > cr.A > A DP > A DP > sj.A > run under > repeat (or meaty st.C)

let's keep on developing tech!
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on May 10, 2012, 07:37:14 PM
i think elisabeth is definitely reliant on her pressure/throw game and good hop spacing.

but i think having more setups with cross ups/unders and resets will make her game ridiculous. especially since going for super at the end of combos are not really worth the meter.

one unpractical one that i have is as follows.
regular throw midscreen > 1 step back > sj.D (only works if they don't tech roll. nobody does that =P)

some that are more obvious.
-j.D/roll after qcf,hcb+P super
-j.D/roll after command grab

run under
cr.B > cr.A > A DP > A DP > sj.A > run under > repeat (or meaty st.C)

let's keep on developing tech!

Yeah, I rarely go for Grand Rafale anywhere juggles since the damage on it has been nerfed in the console version and the mix-ups that Elisabeth has is crazy.

I don't think her command grab is particularly good because of it's range, start up, and her average normals even though she can convert into big damage off of the EX version. That being said, Elisabeth having the threat of a command grab is really important because it increases her mind games significantly. What I think makes this mind game more effective is how Etincelle juggle states work.

Since you can combo into A Coup de Vent off of a CH or anti-air Etincelle you can condition people who are too twitchy or people holding up in block strings. I tend to try and gauge player habits with something like c.Bx2, A Etincelle and since c.B is not special canceable it creates a pseudo-frame trap so if the opponent pushes a button or tries to jump away they get hit by the Etincelle, which can be converted into 400-500 damage if it was a CH or preemptive AA. Once you realize the opponent is just sitting and blocking you can go for a command grab attempt and get them twitchy again or start baiting out reversals.

I've put all of my mix-up/setups that I know or have seen on the wiki so check it out if you haven't already.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 24, 2012, 01:34:18 PM
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elisabeth_Branctorche_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elisabeth_Branctorche_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata)

Betty frames up.

Yeah pity that grand rafale scales like mad (doesn't do so much to beging with at 150), all the way down to 50...

Some guys like nagihei will use it as an anti air, full dmg and if it trades you can juggle...
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on May 24, 2012, 05:39:57 PM
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elisabeth_Branctorche_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elisabeth_Branctorche_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata)

Betty frames up.

Yeah pity that grand rafale scales like mad (doesn't do so much to beging with at 150), all the way down to 50...

Some guys like nagihei will use it as an anti air, full dmg and if it trades you can juggle...

Awesome thanks for updating the wiki for me. I'll have to make some edits to the information I have.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 24, 2012, 06:10:26 PM
Have at it man :)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Diavle on May 24, 2012, 06:32:09 PM
Yeah pity that grand rafale scales like mad (doesn't do so much to beging with at 150), all the way down to 50...

Some guys like nagihei will use it as an anti air, full dmg and if it trades you can juggle...

Its the right way to balance a DM like that imo, super fast and anywhere juggle but low damage.

I'm surprised her cr.C is 8 frames, it looks almost instant in game.

Really appreciate the frame info man.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 25, 2012, 07:11:01 AM
No worries bud.

Yeah, would have to be a liz player to better judge that, but that starting dmg at 150, so many EX specials do more than that. I do hell see the merit of having anywhere power though (just thinking about all the vice insanity).
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on May 25, 2012, 10:16:12 PM
The nerf on Grand Rafale was warranted because her old BnB was s.C, f+B, dp+C, dp+A, dp+A, j.C, Grand Rafale and it did 500+ damage. So you have a 1 bar, 0 drive (anywhere) combo that deals 50% life, which is kind of retarded.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: sibarraz on May 31, 2012, 12:06:51 AM
My friend Gutts is making a video showing how to react against dp+p explaining which chracters could punish it or not

I'mtrying to help him to translate it
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: sociald on June 11, 2012, 01:01:51 PM
ehi sib, say thanks to ur friend i watched his video about reset mixups of elizabeth and it was very helpfull.
just one thing : can u ask ur friend to insert descriptions info and inputs on his videos ? about the reset and mixups too would be even more helpfull
thanks again
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: bbq sauce on June 19, 2012, 05:59:47 AM
Is there a consistent means to doing the corner HD combo? particularly the A shoryu hdc 1 hit 236C? most often I either get 2 hit 236C or I super cancel to GR. @_@

edit: nvm I just found the DPA>6C shortcut. lol
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: KnitemareX on June 22, 2012, 09:05:38 PM
Is there any way to avoid DP randomly coming out during the qcf+AC, qcf+K xx qcf+C part of her midscreen DC combo? Sometimes I get qcf+C but other times it's dp+C. My main problem is the DP will come out the faster I do it, but if I go any slower, qcf+C whiffs mostly. I'm pretty close to getting it down. Just this part screwing me over.

And while I'm here, might as well ask. What's her best options to apply safe pressure? I'm having trouble keeping the offense going and getting dp'd a lot which is making me hesitant to attack in a lot of cases. I'm a KOF newbie if you couldn't tell
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on June 22, 2012, 09:14:55 PM
Is there any way to avoid DP randomly coming out during the qcf+AC, qcf+K xx qcf+C part of her midscreen DC combo? Sometimes I get qcf+C but other times it's dp+C. My main problem is the DP will come out the faster I do it, but if I go any slower, qcf+C whiffs mostly. I'm pretty close to getting it down. Just this part screwing me over.

And while I'm here, might as well ask. What's her best options to apply safe pressure? I'm having trouble keeping the offense going and getting dp'd a lot which is making me hesitant to attack in a lot of cases. I'm a KOF newbie if you couldn't tell

Problem is you're doing  ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd in your inputs. That's a short cut for a dp. Do a hcf, maybe that'll help.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Diavle on June 22, 2012, 09:28:59 PM
And while I'm here, might as well ask. What's her best options to apply safe pressure? I'm having trouble keeping the offense going and getting dp'd a lot which is making me hesitant to attack in a lot of cases. I'm a KOF newbie if you couldn't tell

Just watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXafgWLTh8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXafgWLTh8#ws)

Bala's Elizabeth is amazing with excellent pressure and mixups, lots to learn from him.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on June 22, 2012, 09:47:54 PM
Is there any way to avoid DP randomly coming out during the qcf+AC, qcf+K xx qcf+C part of her midscreen DC combo? Sometimes I get qcf+C but other times it's dp+C. My main problem is the DP will come out the faster I do it, but if I go any slower, qcf+C whiffs mostly. I'm pretty close to getting it down. Just this part screwing me over.

And while I'm here, might as well ask. What's her best options to apply safe pressure? I'm having trouble keeping the offense going and getting dp'd a lot which is making me hesitant to attack in a lot of cases. I'm a KOF newbie if you couldn't tell

The only reason you're getting a DP is that it's still reading the forward input during your qcf+K, which means you're holding forward too long. Put your stick back to neutral before doing qcf+C instead of sliding the stick from forward to down. If you're still getting DP+C, turn on input view in training mode and see where it's reading the forward and then make adjustments in your motions from there.

I can't give you a clear answer on maintaining pressure with Elisabeth because it really just comes down to your understanding of fighting game fundamentals, the nuances to KoF, and how to read your opponent. You can watch all the videos you want but if you just try to mimic what the top players are doing without understanding why they are doing it then you'll plateau out. I've included a lot of information in her wiki entry on how to use her normals, her specials (still updating this section), her spacing game, and her mix-ups. I recommend starting there if you haven't already.


Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Mienaikage on June 23, 2012, 02:48:57 AM
Is there any way to avoid DP randomly coming out during the qcf+AC, qcf+K xx qcf+C part of her midscreen DC combo?

It's impossible for a DP to come out if you end a QCF motion with ;uf
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: KnitemareX on June 23, 2012, 05:06:56 AM
Ooh thanks for all the responses. Through messing with everything you guys suggested, I've found a sweet spot in the timing that seems to make the qcf+C work more often

Will check out that vid tomorrow as well

@killey
Thanks, the frame data in the link was the exact kind of thing I was looking for actually

As for the video thing, I wouldn't use them to mimic a playstyle outright. Right now I'm just looking at basic stuff, like what buttons are preferred at certain distances, what to use when you're at block advantage, okizeme, etc.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: -Azula- on June 24, 2012, 01:58:47 AM
Do any of you guys know what Elisibaeth is saying during super/command throw?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sharnt on June 24, 2012, 11:43:59 AM
And while I'm here, might as well ask. What's her best options to apply safe pressure? I'm having trouble keeping the offense going and getting dp'd a lot which is making me hesitant to attack in a lot of cases. I'm a KOF newbie if you couldn't tell
They do random dp to affraid you to do your pressing.
But what's a dp ? 120 to 200 dmg. If you bait one you can easily do more than 600 with a few gauge so just take a few to encourage them, bait one, kill their char after that and they will likely let you press more easily.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on July 12, 2012, 12:28:49 AM
I discovered an option select technique before Evo but I didn't get to fully flesh it out to see how useful it would be.

I'll post it up here and see what other people can do with it but I'm sure the technique can be applied to all characters.

I got annoyed with people rolling away from cross up set ups so I wondered if I could OS it. I figured out that if you time a late jump-in and then buffer in a special move (in this case Elisabeth's command grab) and then p-link the attacking button with the button to initiate the command grab you could OS it.

For example, you do a hop 632146+B~C. If the opponent blocks or gets hit the command grab won't come out and you'll be able to apply pressure or combo from it. If they roll they get command grabbed. If they do a reversal and it wasn't safe jump timing you're going to get hit.

The timing on this is incredibly tricky and basically you need practice in training mode. If you do the whole thing without attacking your opponent then the sequence should look like j.B whiff land command grab. If you test the timing again against an opponent then the command grab shouldn't come out when j.B is blocked/connects.

In this particular scenario if you fuck up the p-link you're going to get HD activation, which is extremely bad and makes this OS method risky. I haven't played around with it too much because I couldn't make it consistent for me prior to Evo.

You can OS jump-ins on Oki with Etincelle's because I know people love holding up back in the corner on wake up and an OS C Etincelle will catch them.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Fadedsun on July 17, 2012, 03:30:49 AM
I just me or does this combo not work from the wiki?

c.B, c.A xx dp+A, dp+A, j.C

The j.C does not connect, and doesn't connect in either of the other combos at the beginning of the wiki. You can only connect a J.C after the first dp+A and not the second one. Am I missing something? I've tried it many many times now. Actually, it doesn't seem like you can connect a j.C after a dp+A at all.

Another thing I'm having trouble with is doing a drive cancel after a dp+A. Close s.C, f+B xx dp+C, dp+A, [DC], qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A, j.C

When I want to DC after the dp+A I always get a cancel into super because I'm buffering the motion when I do the DP.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on July 17, 2012, 04:41:08 AM
You are missing something.  It's possible to land the j.C.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on July 17, 2012, 04:43:28 AM
i just picked up liz a lil while ago myself, and im pretty stumped about the j.C stuff as well. pretty much from any DP i have no idea how to get it to connect. ive just been doing hyper hop j.D instead. is there any benefit doing j.C instead of j.D?

for the dp+A [DC] qcf+AC; just do dp+A~AC. immediately press AC after the dp+A, no directional inputs needed. idk for sure, but you might have to do 6236+A (f,qcf+A) for the DC to work. i think somebody that knows more could answer better. my stick has such a tiny throw i cant get a dp to come out any other way.

i also have a question about this drive cancel when outside the corner. s.C, f+B > dp+C, dp+A, [DC] qcf+AC, qcf+B, qcf+C, dp+A > j.D

when i cancel the dp+A into qcf+AC outside the corner, sometimes it cancels into dp+AC instead. for this combo, qcf+AC only seems to come out when i buffer the DP input super early with a big gap before pressing A~AC. is that the only way for the cancel to come out, or is there a certain input i can add between the A~AC to keep dp+AC from coming out? i feel like im not doing that big gap between the input and button press for the corner combo, so i have no idea why the dp+AC is coming out outside of the corner.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Fadedsun on July 17, 2012, 05:10:15 AM
You are missing something.  It's possible to land the j.C.

Is there a video I can watch showing this combo? The j.C always whiffs. It's literally going right through them if I try to do it after I hit the second dp.A and go for j.C.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on July 17, 2012, 05:18:31 AM
The thing is that DP+A has a limited juggle window.  After the second DP+A you have to leave the ground immediately and j.C at the apex of your jump.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on July 17, 2012, 10:37:09 AM
I just me or does this combo not work from the wiki?

c.B, c.A xx dp+A, dp+A, j.C

The j.C does not connect, and doesn't connect in either of the other combos at the beginning of the wiki. You can only connect a J.C after the first dp+A and not the second one. Am I missing something? I've tried it many many times now. Actually, it doesn't seem like you can connect a j.C after a dp+A at all.

Another thing I'm having trouble with is doing a drive cancel after a dp+A. Close s.C, f+B xx dp+C, dp+A, [DC], qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A, j.C

When I want to DC after the dp+A I always get a cancel into super because I'm buffering the motion when I do the DP.

You're doing the j.C too late because landing the j.C is always possible. After the DP+A try holding up+forward on the joystick and press C as soon as you see her jump. If it's still whiffing then you'll have to press C earlier and then adjust the timing from there.

A little bit further in the wiki I wrote execution tips on her combos. Instead of doing the full qcf motion for the qcf+AC you roll the stick to forward or up+forward and press AC.

ive just been doing hyper hop j.D instead. is there any benefit doing j.C instead of j.D?

j.C deals more damage then j.D and it has a higher vertical hitbox as well.

Quote
i also have a question about this drive cancel when outside the corner. s.C, f+B > dp+C, dp+A, [DC] qcf+AC, qcf+B, qcf+C, dp+A > j.D

when i cancel the dp+A into qcf+AC outside the corner, sometimes it cancels into dp+AC instead. for this combo, qcf+AC only seems to come out when i buffer the DP input super early with a big gap before pressing A~AC. is that the only way for the cancel to come out, or is there a certain input i can add between the A~AC to keep dp+AC from coming out? i feel like im not doing that big gap between the input and button press for the corner combo, so i have no idea why the dp+AC is coming out outside of the corner.

Roll the stick to up+forward after the DP. So it'll be 623+A~9+AC and you should avoid getting a EX DP from coming out.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: NeoTrinity on July 25, 2012, 09:15:10 PM
So I've been playing Betty since January and all this time I rarely use her extended, non-metered HD combos.  Generally when I'm in a position to do it, I just do her regular DC combos that can net me about 550+ damage anyway.  The only time I really hit the HD is when I can do something simple and kill or when I have 4 meters and if I get a clean hit Neo Max from EX DM and watch damn near 900+ health dissapear.

So my question is:  Is doing HD loops with her necessary?  It's kind of a pain to keep the Dp. ;a xx Qcf. ;a loop consistent, atleast for me, because of the timing and the possibility of getting her DM.  One corner HD loop I am practicing,however, is the Dp. ;c -> Qcf. ;c -> Dp. ;a xx Qcb. ;d xx Qcf. ;c -> Qcf. ;c -> Dp. ;a xx Qcb. ;d xx Qcf. ;c -> Qcf. ;c, etc.  But that's only because it looks cool to see her swag back and forth mid combo.  Kinda hard too, once again atleast to me, because you have to hit that Dp. ;a just right or else the Qcf. ;c's wont juggle properly.

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on July 28, 2012, 01:19:22 AM
elisabeths low cost HD combos are too weak. it is not worth it unless you use 3+ stocks for max cancel. a lot of times just going straight into EX DM > max cancel is enough to kill, but if you do 3 loops its aruond 993 dmg if you need the extra. it helps a 3 stock max cancel do solid enough damage. its a lot of work compared to the extra damage it gives, but its great to have it down.  i think the full screen loop is too hard to do in matches. props to anyone that has it down perfect. =p

 i dont see any reason to do the qcb.D though other than for flash. does it help time the dp.A juggle?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on July 28, 2012, 03:38:51 AM
Learning the advance HD combo goes back to risk vs reward. It's difficult to land it in the heat of the moment because you need to hit that DP+A at the lowest height to hit the qcf+C perfectly but if you can get the full loop into Neomax it's near a 100% dmg combo. She does have 100% combos but it requires landing a j.C and getting far s.C in the HD activation which isn't easy or having 5 meters to blow. That being said you just need 4 bars to do 893dmg with a simple s.C, f+B, HD, s.C xx DP+C, EX Super xx Neomax.

Using qcf/qcb+K can help with the timing of the qcf+C juggles since you don't need to hit the DP+A at the lowest height.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sharnt on July 31, 2012, 03:04:45 PM
I reread the whole thread and nowhere I found a mention of the omgwtfbbq safe jump liz has after her command throw?

hcb f => hop hop.D
It safe jump else 3f moves (Shen CABC etc)
[KOF XIII] Elisabeth Mistral Safe Jump (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIsCxVrnMIw#)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: choysauce on August 01, 2012, 12:41:32 AM
came up with some CH CD combos with Liz (sorry if these may have been mentioned) (also i think all the wiki's should include CH CD combos).

corner CH st.CD > qcf+A > dp+A > (DC) qcf+AC > qcf+Cx2 > dp+Ax2 > j.C

corner CH j.CD > qcf+C > dp+A > (DC) qcf+AC > qcf+Cx2 > dp+Ax2 > j.C

the first one is relatively safe on block, nigh impossible to punish.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on October 20, 2012, 07:32:09 AM
I forgot to mention this here but I added some corner CH combos to the wiki.

I need to make an update and add some s.CD CH combos. You can actually do s.CD CH xx qcf+k (hit confirm), qcf+C, etc...

Also, I think I stumbled upon a really good safe jump OS setup.

Corner Drive Cancel BnB I listed in the wiki but instead of ending it in jump C, you do hyper hop j.A, land, hyper hop delayed j.B, then delay back s.C.

I don't think the safe jump will work against Kim or anyone who has a super fast reversal but I tested it against typical EX/DP's like Kyo, Andy, Mr.Karate, etc... and here's the results I get.

Unless the DP has a fast start up they get hit by a meaty j.B, giving enough time to combo into that delayed back s.C. If the DP is fast enough to come out you'll be able to block it unless it's specific characters like Kim. If they try to roll out the delayed back s.C will throw them out. I haven't tested this on all characters but thought it was worth noting for other people to dive into. 
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on November 04, 2012, 10:31:34 PM
Did further testing with the above safe jump setup and it's actually a 4 frame safe jump. Kim's EX Flash Kick beats it and some instant counter specials/neo maxes will beat it. Basically, any reversal that's 3 frames or less will beat it.

I've found several new combos for Elisabeth (posted in the wiki) that make her threatening even when she doesn't have drive. Basically, there's a few good ways to combo into EX Mistral from hit confirms, which let you combo into EX Etincelles allowing you to go to town with juggles. You should be able to score around 500 damage with 2 meters, no drive and end in a reset. Applying the same theory to her drive cancel combos also pushes the damage into the same resets.

I also posted the Sharnt's safe jump setup and video in the wiki and I've credited him for it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 05, 2012, 12:49:34 AM
That's pretty neat. Elizabeth really has some serious tools. I really think aside from the negligible lack of a moving fireball, she's a very good and balanced character with a slight lean towards combo-heavy damage and capitalizing on situational circumstances rather than poking, zoning, and the like.

Safe jumps are great for characters like that because they need to always be in the opponent's face.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on November 08, 2012, 06:33:12 PM
I view Elisabeth more as a rush down character because she has a ton of offensive options but her defensive options are a bit lacking or situational. Safe jump setups will benefit any character but definitely a plus for Elisabeth to have one off of two common situations.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on November 18, 2012, 01:08:56 AM
are there situations where hyper hop j.A > hyper hop j.B wont be a 4 frame safe jump? say i dont time the last dp+Ax2 correctly and save the combo by going for the reset after one. depending on the height the hyper hop j.A wont connect there  and i have a do a normal hop.

 will this still be a 4 frame safe jump when the hyper hop j.A connects? on a regular hop would i have to go for cr.B to not get reversaled, or is that not safe either?


Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on November 18, 2012, 11:17:53 PM
In the safe jump setup the j.B doesn't have to be a hyper hop, you can do a hop j.B as well. I typically do neutral hop j.B.

If you screw up the timing of dp+A x2 then yes, it won't be a 4 frame safe jump anymore. The reason being is that you need to knock the opponent as high in the air as possible, so that when you do the hyper hop j.A you have enough time to land and do the safe hop j.B.

For example, if you do dp+C, and then try to do a deep j.A but you mistimed it slightly. If you recognize this and try to salvage it with hyper hop j.A, hop j.B it won't be a 4f safe jump anymore. Meaty c.B's aren't safe to being with and are susceptible to certain reversals.

The safest things to do in those situations is to either do j.C (instead of j.A), Grand Rafale or bait out a reversal after the j.C/D/A. You can take some risks and do other mix ups but it really depends on how your opponent plays.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sir Octopus (Saiki) on January 05, 2013, 02:51:48 AM
How do you pull off 2 grand rafael one after the other? and can you follow up the first DM with a dp.A?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: karn on January 05, 2013, 03:32:03 AM
How do you pull off 2 grand rafael one after the other? and can you follow up the first DM with a dp.A?
'

I think landing two Grand Rafales in a row needs specific spacing from the wall; there's an example in Mission Mode - Trial.
The position your opponent starts at in training mode (or after using RESTART), you can do dp.A, dp.A neutral jump A, then do Grand Rafale as soon as you land. Somehow the last hits of Grand Rafale don't connect because of the opponent's height and position. Since the last hit of Grand Rafale causes the knockdown and the last hit doesn't happen, they float down in a free juggle state so you can reset them with st.A or close C. You can cancel the normal you used to reset into Grand Rafale, but there's enough time to recover from your normal and just juggle into the second Grand Rafale since it's fast enough.

You cannot follow up the first DM with dp.A because they are about to fall to the ground and you have to hit them with something really quick. Only st.A (maybe cr.A) and cl.C seem fast enough to stop them from falling.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sir Octopus (Saiki) on January 05, 2013, 04:37:00 AM
I'm sure I've seen a dp hit after the DM but am unable to find the video.

As for the spacing. I can start it in the corner and do a jamping back A and pull off 2 DM this way, I am more interested in finding the dpA after DM timing though.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: karn on January 05, 2013, 05:42:20 AM
I'm sure I've seen a dp hit after the DM but am unable to find the video.

As for the spacing. I can start it in the corner and do a jamping back A and pull off 2 DM this way, I am more interested in finding the dpA after DM timing though.

Oh cool I didn't know you could do that.

[Moments later] Tried it, it isn't working for me. I'm skeptical about this dp.A followup to Grand Rafale too.

In any case it's all just for style rather than damage unless you are confirming off of dp.A and eventually HD activating off of the st.A reset to max cancel the 2nd grand rafale.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 08, 2013, 06:08:19 PM
I'm sure I've seen a dp hit after the DM but am unable to find the video.

As for the spacing. I can start it in the corner and do a jamping back A and pull off 2 DM this way, I am more interested in finding the dpA after DM timing though.

Let me know if this is possible and I'll update the wiki with this information. In my testing with double grand rafale combos when I was writing the wiki I wasn't able to combo into other DM's or Special Moves. The best I could get was a normal into another Grand Rafale. Maybe this was something that was removed from the arcade version of XIII?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Sir Octopus (Saiki) on January 09, 2013, 04:49:05 AM
it's possible it was the AV, was trying a stun combo but it'll have to wait until I can confirm this. Was able to pull off a Raiden stu though, added that to the next combo vid.

Can she hit a dp after the neomax?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 09, 2013, 05:36:51 PM
Hmmm...It might be possible to hit a DP after a neomax because I know she can hit a lvl 2 DM after the neomax but it's height specific. I'll see if I can find the video of the neomax -> lvl 2 DM so you have something to work off of.

EDIT: Found it.

KOF XIII Elisabeth Combo 1026dmg BALA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-rMwP_oLhI#ws)

Based on the video, BALA Neo Max cancels after the first hit of Grand Rafale because they're at the highest peak at that point. The Neo Max hits the opponent off screen, which allows him to do the lvl 2 DM before they land so it may be possible to sneak a DP in there.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on May 23, 2013, 10:41:57 PM
Did not know she could do this:

Liz demo for karn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJWK_7YH9c#)

Also, I don't know if the proper term for this is "mind game", but what do you think of doing this on an enemy to trick them?

Ground CD, whiff cancel to qcf+K (on initial frames of CD, in case that wasn't clear), then command grab.

I think this could work on an opponent who has just recovered from a safe roll or from getting back up from the ground.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on May 24, 2013, 06:24:10 PM
Yeah, the invinci frames of EX command dash is pretty good and something you can use on wake up or vs certain strings. I've actually have listed this in the wiki before including using the s.CD, command dash, command grab.

It can be used for oki games but it can be pretty risky if they wake up pushing buttons or they do a reversal, which is a pretty high probability given the way the motion looks. I like it more in resets like DP+A, jump back C, s.CD whiff cancel command dash into command grab. You can also change the command grab to either Etincelle or Coup De Veine to catch people jumping out. That particular setup is pretty good for fishing for counter hits into high damage corner juggles.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on May 28, 2013, 08:22:28 AM
You're right, it is better for resets. Dunno why I didn't think of that =P

Which do you prefer more? Command grab or counter hit baiting with her offense moves? And for the latter, wouldn't a backwards step work better?
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on May 28, 2013, 08:43:48 AM
Completely depends on how you read your opponent. I prefer the forward dash because you can condition them to jump in anticipation of the command grab so when you go for Etincelle or Coup De Veine instead it catches them by surprise. If you do backwards dash they're less likely to jump back. However, that being said if you got them cornered they'll try to jump out of the corner and that's where backwards dash into Etincelle can be handy.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: desmond_kof on June 20, 2013, 04:13:06 PM
Any thoughts on this video by Juicebox, Elisabeth players?
Juicy Bits - KOF13 Character Basics: Elisabeth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1C63H3_Jb8#ws)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on June 20, 2013, 10:30:24 PM
It's a well done tutorial video for beginner-to-intermediate players as intended. I prefer his way of explaining the spacing after qcf+A and dp+A. Also, I've been trying to find a way to explain the different juggle properties off of dp+A and dp+C and I really like his way of calling it half and full juggles (not sure if this was used in previous KOF's).

The video mostly reinforces what Oscar and I talked about during the Elisabeth podcast. However, I think we were mistaken about the EX command dash being full body invincibility. Based on the video it looks like it's only upper body invincibility. He also did confirm that EX command has full body invincibility. I've actually corrected all of this in the wiki already. lol

There's only 2 things that I had issues in his video.

1) HD combos - He said the simplest 3 bar combos were cl s.C, f+B, HD activation, cl s.C, f+B xx dp+C, dp+A, qcfx2+P xx Neomax. The damage output was like 747 when he could have simplified it to cl s.C, f+B, HD, far s.C xx dp+C, qcfx2+p xx Neomax for 767 damage. Both are easy to do but from a beginner perspective, less inputs and more damage is better.

He also did 4 bar combos involving adding Grand Rafale after the Neomax when you might as well do EX qcfx2+P xx Neomax for like 891 damage.

2) Counter Hits - I would have liked to see him go into her counter hit scenarios more. I feel that this is really important in her game at an intermediate-to-expert level. I know his aim is for beginner-to-intermediate but the knowledge of what you get off of Counter Hit qcf+A, s.CD, and j.CD is really good info.


Also, check out http://www.twitch.tv/mexikof/b/361050950 (http://www.twitch.tv/mexikof/b/361050950) for some high level Elisabeth play from Cebollas. It really outlines her strengths and weaknesses and the spacing you should be aiming with the character.

Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on July 28, 2013, 11:52:08 PM
So I didn't notice that standing normals on counter hit vs an airborne opponent causes a half juggle state. This lets Elisabeth combo into QCF+A or DP+A and transition into fully combos from there. Very situational and hard to hit confirm during the neutral game; however, it's very applicable in the frame trap game or in her command grab mind games.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: cydvis on August 28, 2013, 04:16:32 PM
A little option-select:
http://youtu.be/tLMaRrMR4bg (http://youtu.be/tLMaRrMR4bg)

I didn't show it in the video but it beats throws, back rolls and some reversals
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on August 28, 2013, 06:31:56 PM
A little option-select:
http://youtu.be/tLMaRrMR4bg (http://youtu.be/tLMaRrMR4bg)

I didn't show it in the video but it beats throws, back rolls and some reversals

Does this still work with the standard DP+C, DP+A, DP+A starter? I would assume it would but just double checking.

Usually forward rolls and reversals are the most common escape options for this reset. Usually with the DP+C, DP+A, DP+A, hyper hop j.A->cross up hop j.B reset it's a safe jump against 3 or 4 frame reversals and covers forward and back rolls. If the opponent back rolls they're back rolling close to you so you can punish with close s.C->f.B, etc... on recovery. If they forward roll you can catch them with a far s.C xx DP+C on recovery.

Prior to evo2k12 I was testing OSing specials in a similar fashion to SF4 and it does work but the timing is more strict. I think it might be possible to do something like this with qcf+BC but I'm not sure if this would cover against reversals unless maybe you delayed it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: cydvis on August 28, 2013, 06:52:38 PM
Does this still work with the standard DP+C, DP+A, DP+A starter? I would assume it would but just double checking.


I used the DP+A, DP+A starter because it's short (recording dummy time) and easy. I made the video to show that the  ;dn ;df ;fd ;b+ ;d,  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a can be turned into an  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a if the command dash crossdown the opponent at close range.
It was the first application i thought of it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: mechanica on September 01, 2013, 07:06:30 AM
Is that hyperhop A followed by normal hop B? I could never get the spacing to get the crossup thing so this is cool.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on September 01, 2013, 05:56:33 PM
KOF XIII (PC) - Elisabeth double Grand Rafale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UI3jIM02n0#)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: cydvis on September 02, 2013, 03:33:13 PM
Is that hyperhop A followed by normal hop B? I could never get the spacing to get the crossup thing so this is cool.

I use (and I think most of elisabeth players use the same)after DP+A, DP+A then:
 - hyper hop forward A, hop forward B/C/D/CD (crossup)
 - hyper hop forward A, slight pause, hop forward B (hits not crossup but elisabeth looks the wrong way)

The "not crossup" way is usually better I think

EDIT: one more thing not related (and useless most of the time), the input  ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a + ;c is an option-select for elisabeth. One side she does DP+AC, on the other side she does EX counter... maybe it can be usefull on some wake up situation... maybe :/
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: The K1 Effect on September 05, 2013, 09:44:51 AM
Hey guys....im not an Elisabeth player, but im very interested in her. Ive got a few questions though.

1) Is she meter reliant? Or is she a solid character even without heavy meter use (I dont want to spend more than a bar or two with her). Does she build good meter?

2) What characters / matchups does she have a hard time with and why?

3) Is she really as execution intensive as Juicebox says in his Elisabeth primer?

4) What does she excel at ?


Thanks to anyone who is willing to answer the questions ! The reason im being so adamant about not spending a lot of meter with her is because Ive got Leona on anchor.....and Leona is non negotiable. If anything I can put Elisabeth on my secondary team though.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on September 05, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
Hey guys....im not an Elisabeth player, but im very interested in her. Ive got a few questions though.

1) Is she meter reliant? Or is she a solid character even without heavy meter use (I dont want to spend more than a bar or two with her). Does she build good meter?

2) What characters / matchups does she have a hard time with and why?

3) Is she really as execution intensive as Juicebox says in his Elisabeth primer?

4) What does she excel at ?


Thanks to anyone who is willing to answer the questions ! The reason im being so adamant about not spending a lot of meter with her is because Ive got Leona on anchor.....and Leona is non negotiable. If anything I can put Elisabeth on my secondary team though.

1) She's reliant on meter for higher damage output and some defensive options.

2) Elisabeth has bad range on most of her normals so she tends to struggle vs characters who have better range on their normals (Karate, Kim, Clark, Hwa, etc...). It makes playing the neutral game really tough with her and she needs to win the neutral in order to apply offensive pressure. She's also weak to rush down because her defensive options are bad so once you find yourself in the corner you're going to have to block it out or spend meter on GC blowbacks/rolls or a risky reversal (EX Iori).

3) She's one of the more execution intensive characters only because her max damage combos require specific timing on her juggles. The actual motions for her attacks aren't difficult at all.

4) She has some good space control tools and a tricky mix up game that can disorient people who aren't familiar with the match up.

If you're new to KoF, Elisabeth will help you grasp the combo system of KoFXIII much faster than other characters. Otherwise, I generally don't recommend the character for beginners mostly because of her weaknesses.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: cydvis on September 05, 2013, 05:26:28 PM
I'm certainly not an expert KoF player but...

1) She can do really good damage meterless BUT I think she need to have 1 meter (for the threat of  ex dash to ex command grab, for the ex counter, for the anywhere juggle super and for the guard break potential and defense)

2) I have a hard time against characters with good normals. She is lacking in that department... and she need meter to defend herself... and her reversals with meter are kinda bad.

3) I didn't try all the characters but she is a hard character execution wise. She needs precise timing and execution for most of her combos and juggles.

4) She have great mixups IF you manage to not screwing your combos AND land a hit/ex counter/ex command grab AND not screwing your post-combo setup (that's a lot of conditions).

She is the kind of character that can kill someone really fast if you guess right (and don't mess with your timings/inputs).


EDIT: I forgot to write about it and I don't know if it's in the wiki, there is a nice guard break combo for elisabeth:
jump CD, close C forward B xx command dash xx qcf A+C, close C forward B xx HD activation, close C forward B xx DP C (guardbreak) ... and continue with HD combo corner (without using meter after i can do about 550 damage)

Cost 100% drive and 1 meter, gives the opponent about 60% of power meter. There is a tiny hole after qcf A+C (the opponent can try to jump) but elisabeth is on frameadvantage after that move anyway.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: The K1 Effect on September 06, 2013, 12:27:32 AM
thanks for the quick and in depth responses guys, much appreciated
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on September 06, 2013, 04:59:56 PM
EDIT: I forgot to write about it and I don't know if it's in the wiki, there is a nice guard break combo for elisabeth:
jump CD, close C forward B xx command dash xx qcf A+C, close C forward B xx HD activation, close C forward B xx DP C (guardbreak) ... and continue with HD combo corner (without using meter after i can do about 550 damage)

Cost 100% drive and 1 meter, gives the opponent about 60% of power meter. There is a tiny hole after qcf A+C (the opponent can try to jump) but elisabeth is on frameadvantage after that move anyway.

Elisabeth is +12 after EX Etincelle (qcf+AC) so there's no gap between that and her close s.C. If you set the dummy to one guard jump and do EX Etincelle and an immediate close s.C after wards it's a true block string. It is a viable strategy to delay the close s.C after wards for a frame trap.

The only issue with the guard break string is it's really easy for the opponent to just guard cancel roll/blow back so you really have to keep an eye on their meter before hand.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Malik on October 22, 2013, 04:18:54 AM
Elisabeth technology
KOF XIII // Elisabeth Safe Jumps, Set Up and HD Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75YuPSrIrUw#)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on October 23, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Elisabeth technology
KOF XIII // Elisabeth Safe Jumps, Set Up and HD Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75YuPSrIrUw#)

Those safe jump setups are extremely useful and I'll be putting this into the wiki.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on November 03, 2013, 06:36:44 PM
KOF XIII : Elizabeth Blanchetorche best damages combos tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhtoJDh75uA#ws)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on December 30, 2013, 09:53:11 AM
I did not know about these whiff cancels.

King of Fighter XIII - Elisabeth Basics and HD combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fueyR4CA76w#ws)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Dark Chaotix on December 30, 2013, 12:39:04 PM
Are you referring to the sA or sB after dp+C? If so, they are used to gauge right height and timing for the followup dp+A x2. Some players can do it by eye but if not the whiff moves helps with the timing. It's not for style thats for sure.

It's been around since arcade version, but since Eliz isn't widely played as much no more it's probably why you haven't it.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on December 31, 2013, 07:31:04 AM
Are you referring to the sA or sB after dp+C? If so, they are used to gauge right height and timing for the followup dp+A x2. Some players can do it by eye but if not the whiff moves helps with the timing. It's not for style thats for sure.

It's been around since arcade version, but since Eliz isn't widely played as much no more it's probably why you haven't it.

Oh really? Even in the arcade days, I never recalled seeing that. And Liz players were abundant back then.

Maybe they didn't need to do that because she used to be so godlike...  :(
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Dark Chaotix on December 31, 2013, 10:50:44 AM
Yeah, here is an example @4:40 taken from a match in 2010 arcade

KOF XIII ふわふわ対戦 Round1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLbP1J33uLI#ws)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Killey on January 05, 2014, 10:38:11 AM
The whiff timing is still tricky but you can still time it too early and hit them too high for the second dp+a to connect. Some players such as Bala and Pako like to use a micro dash to help with the timing from time-to-time. You can play around with these techniques but do what's most comfortable for you.

Speaking of Pako, he did a bunch of sets last night (Friday, Jan 03) so there's a lot of good Elisabeth footage here.

http://www.twitch.tv/layex/b/492441922 (http://www.twitch.tv/layex/b/492441922)

I also want to note that he has a sick side swap combo off of her EX command grab.

EX Command grab, qcf+K, EX Etincelle

I haven't played around with the combo yet but he does the qcf+K to side swap and then quickly cancels into EX Etincelle. I'm going to assume you'll need to input the EX Etincelle in the opposite direction that you're facing. So it should be a smooth qcf+K, qcb+PP motion. I'll post it up on the wiki once I've got it down as well as the stun and damage calculations.
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Malik on February 12, 2014, 11:11:07 PM
GuttsCL dropping more tidbits for people have trouble in the Mr. K matchup
KOF XIII - Match up tips EP02: Elisabeth against Mr. Karate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9JW9atLHtQ#ws)
Title: Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
Post by: Coffeeling on April 10, 2014, 11:35:46 PM
Why is he helping people against Karate ;_;
What has Karate done to him ;_;
The videos should be about mutual murder instead of one-sided slaughter :/