Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Shen Woo => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:05:42 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/shen.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throw
Kokakugeki - ;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d
Command Normals
Fusenkyaku - ;fd + ;b
Special Moves
Geki-Ken - ;qcf + ;a / ;c (C version chargeable, cancel charge by pressing ;b / ;d) *
Fuku Tora Geki - ;qcb + ;a *
∟ Kanyuu Ryugeki - ;qcf + ;a
Tenrenken - ;qcf + ;b / ;d *
Tamaken - ;hcb ;fd + ;a / ;c *
Tamaken Deflect - ;qcb + ;c
Desperation Moves
Tatsu!! Gekiken! - ;qcf x2 + ;a / ;c *
Bakuten - ;c ;a ;b ;c (costs two stocks)
Neomax
Tensho Bakushingeki - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a ;c
Shen's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)).
Console changes:
* Gekiken Fakeout has faster recovery. It’ll fail if the kick button is pressed too soon.
Gekiken maxed out will chip half the opponent’s guard meter
* Danken(throw) comes out slower. Neither weak nor fierce has invincibility. However, it can be Drivecanceled.
* Danken(reflect) builds up meter on a success. No drive meter buildup.
* EX Fukkogeki>Kouryuugeki has slower recovery when blocked. Completely punishable
Producer Yamamoto says: We’ve did a lot of adjustments to his Danken. The throw version is no longer 1F, but it can be drive canceled for additional damage. Gekiken’s feint has quicker recovery so it can be used to lengthen attack strings.
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Juicy Bits - KOF13 Character Basics: Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf-ol0tzohw#ws)
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Reserved
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Wait, now every character has sub-forums?
Anyway, Shen's now part of my second team and he's really good.
Though i can't decide to put him on point or as my second.
Anybody got a list of combos?
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KOFXIII PRACTICAL CMV Vol.1 SHEN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOMjgzq81RU#ws)
I don't play Shen but I ran into this
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Strongest HD combo so far with no meter or 1 meter is:
(near corner) j.C -> s.C -> f+B -> BC -> s.C -> f+B -> hcb,f+P -> HDC qcf+D -> HDC qcf+C (slight hold) -> HDC qcf+D -> qcf+A -> HDC qcf+D -> qcb+A -> qcf+A -> HDC qcf+D -> qcf+A -> HDC qcf+D -> qcf+D -> s.C or super
819 damage with level 1 super
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KOFXIII PRACTICAL CMV Vol.1 SHEN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOMjgzq81RU#ws)
I don't play Shen but I ran into this
Pretty good!Nice find.
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KOFXIII PRACTICAL CMV Vol.1 SHEN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOMjgzq81RU#ws)
I don't play Shen but I ran into this
Pretty good!Nice find.
If people want to note down all the combos hes doing at specific times, we can put some annotations on the video!
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Very nice find guys :D time to go in the lab and max my damage.
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Console changes:
* Gekiken Fakeout has faster recovery. It’ll fail if the kick button is pressed too soon.
Gekiken maxed out will chip half the opponent’s guard meter
* Danken(throw) comes out slower. Neither weak nor fierce has invincibility. However, it can be Drivecanceled.
* Danken(reflect) builds up meter on a success. No drive meter buildup.
* EX Fukkogeki>Kouryuugeki has slower recovery when blocked. Completely punishable
Just to be sure...
1-the console changes that stated above..that conclude all of it....??
2-and in arcade ver.. about his command throw.. i know he can cancel it to other specials...but
A- was he able to cancel it into super..??
B-was he able in HD mode cancel it to specials and supers..??
..sorry for the bad English... ( :
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2. In the arcade version, his command throw couldn't be canceled at all. The EX version left the opponent in a crumble state, so you could keep a combo going, but the throw itself couldn't be canceled.
1. Those are all the console changes SNK told us about. But they also said there might be other changes they didn't talk about.
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2. In the arcade version, his command throw couldn't be canceled at all. The EX version left the opponent in a crumble state, so you could keep a combo going, but the throw itself couldn't be canceled.
1. Those are all the console changes SNK told us about. But they also said there might be other changes they didn't talk about.
thanks a lot...
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Now i try to perfect the timing of his ;dn + ;b ;dn+ ;c...though the combo is originally is Ryo's
... but with Shen's ;fd + ;b he has a better chances to land HD combos .
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Was messing with the stupid easy Shen 100% HD corner combos and found out a small efficiency thing. I didn't see this mentioned on the Wiki or this thread.
There's two version of the combo:
(near corner) cl.C f.B BC cl.C f.B xx hcb,f+AC, CABC (MC) qcfhcb+AC - (1017)
(corner only) cl.C f.B BC cl.C f.B xx hcb,f+P (HDC) CABC (MC) qcfhcb+AC - (1017)
But it turns out you can do the "Corner Only" version from "Near Corner" range. This is good because it allows for an easy 100% with 4 bars instead of 5.
If you do the hit confirm into hcb,f+P, then on the first frame available do the (HDC) CABC, you will hit with it no matter where you are. Finish off with Max Cancel for the 1000+ damage for an easy 4-Bar HD combo. Just still make sure your opponent is basically in the corner after getting hit with the install burst otherwise Max Cancel will miss and all that. You can start from about midscreen and do enough push to get them into the corner. After the hit confirm f+B, lead in with qcf+A (HDC) hcb,f + P CABC if you need that slight bit of extra push. It will still do 1k+.
This is made easier with the input leniency. If you press the first three buttons, CAB, right away after the grab lands then press and HOLD the last C when the throw's hit animation occurs, you'll have that 5 frame buffer for the Shen install to come out on frame 1, which should combo in most instances.
One instance it doesn't combo is Kensou, because he's a prick.
This will NOT work on Kensou, and I'm going to assume a few other characters, but I haven't come across any more besides him yet. That'll follow the Near Corner/In Corner rules.
If I just repeated some information somewhere else, obvious information or otherwise, then oops :( Otherwise, I hope this helps promote some Shen fisting.
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*sees combo doesn't work on Kensou*
*celebrates quietly*
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*sees combo doesn't work on Kensou*
*celebrates quietly*
Reported for being a jerk! :(
Hahaha, yeah, unfortunately his fall animation leans back instantly, so he just chills right through Shen's install. So I just have to use a not-as-easy 100% on him instead :(
One of the top 2 in state ATM plays Kensou. Furthermore, as anchor vs my Shen anchor. He's celebrating, though not as quietly, along with you. ;)
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Yeah...but in all seriousness I think Shen can live with 35-36 characters.
And look on the bright side, if it's Kensou anchor vs. Shen Anchor, you're actually sitting decently pretty. You can kill him on one touch (or at least hit 800-900), he can't. You having meter makes his FB game not as effective. A bunch of your options with all that meter and drive will lead into hell, his won't for the most part.
I guess the thing I'm saying is...why the hell does that man run Kensou on anchor?!
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Yeah...but in all seriousness I think Shen can live with 35-36 characters.
And look on the bright side, if it's Kensou anchor vs. Shen Anchor, you're actually sitting decently pretty. You can kill him on one touch (or at least hit 800-900), he can't. You having meter makes his FB game not as effective. A bunch of your options with all that meter and drive will lead into hell, his won't for the most part.
I guess the thing I'm saying is...why the hell does that man run Kensou on anchor?!
LMAO
He likes his Neo Max, and I think he only knows his HD combo at the moment. :D
He also played Kensou a lot in 12? So he has that previous practice knowledge and advantage against most everyone. So probably comfort with Kensou is thrown in there too.
All I can say is that it works. :( If I can touch him, I can kill him, sure, but I'm still too fresh to this game to have the greatest setups and pressures on the ready.
My goal for tonight's ranbat/gathering is to land some kind of 90% - ToD HD combo on him. Wish me luck! <-something I shouldn't be depending on in competitive play!
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Yeah, but Kensou's main HD combos don't use more than 3 meters, and even 3 is really pushing it. He'd have a lot better comfort zone putting him out front, gaining momentum thus easing the load the rest of his team has so he isn't so tight with characters he isn't as adept with.
And trust me, for that Anchor vs. Anchor match, you don't need the greatest setups and pressures. Just play solid, he'll leave an opening eventually unless he never presses buttons. Kensou constantly goes to lows since they are his best buttons. All you need to do is hop over one, free kill.
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This is also info I'm going to cherish dearly. Might be simple to ya, but this is all new info that I didn't really know/consider lol. Well I really can't defend for him, but I'll forward on the thoughts, see what he thinks of it. It'll make him more fearsome as a competitor probably, but the community will be better as a whole having to work harder. :)
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Yeah, remember when I said Kensou doesn't hit hard in HD? I was wrong, though only in the corner. Keep yourself out of there and you should be fine...somewhat.
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Shen's metadata on the wiki complete:
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Move_Metadata (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Move_Metadata)
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Nice ! Finally some framedata !
But maybe I should've not watched it since almost everything is negative on block =( (and that command grad with 5 frames of start up... why SNKP ?)
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Haha yeah, sometimes the truth hurts - suspicions confirmed!
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Video showcasing his deflect move:
KoF XIII : Shen Woo's Hougeki Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cIIiy7u5_Y#)
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That's amazing - looks to be able to negate one hit of most anything. I like vs chin NM - haha
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Is that move only for deflecting? Or can he lay a serious bitch slap on his opponents' faces with it?
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Is that move only for deflecting? Or can he lay a serious bitch slap on his opponents' faces with it?
That move can't do damage. Doesn't build that much meter when deflecting fbs either. Yamamoto was saying they put it in the game bc shen fans really wanted it.
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Can he lay a serious bitch slap on his opponents' faces with it?
He would be god tier with that.
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In Climax they're going to increase Shen's meter gain on qcb+C, and right now the best thing I've seen it be usable for is getting out of Mai's Ryu-Enbu and then starting an HD combo from close C or something.
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Wow, great video, that's something I never though had THAT many uses. Thanks!
If that can shut down a Maxima's blockstring ending in the punch, or go through a wild one, that's a great counter-attack maneuver.
I'm going to start playing with that more now that I know better/different uses.
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Just a quick question. I've noticed something when you do ;dn ;df ;fd ;c it adds an extra ;fd ;c input. Does anyone know why it does this? I tested multiple sticks, and characters, Shen is the only one this happens with.
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Just a quick question. I've noticed something when you do ;dn ;df ;fd ;c it adds an extra ;fd ;c input. Does anyone know why it does this? I tested multiple sticks, and characters, Shen is the only one this happens with.
When I turn on the inputs in training mode, I just see a qcf+C with no extra f+C input at all.
Has the damage for this combos been updated since console release? They seem slightly lower to me: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Combos (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Combos)
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Has the damage for this combos been updated since console release? They seem slightly lower to me: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Combos (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Combos)
Nope, like I said before, I basically haven't touched the wiki and therefore someone should work on it now as I don't really play him since console. His qcf C (uncharged) now does 60 dmg down from 70 which is where the damage difference comes into play IIRC when we tested him at Atlus.
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hey guys i'm new here , so i 'v some problems with shen HD combos carries
I can do 5C,6B,(HD),5C,6B,214A,236A,236D,236C,236D then 214A(whiff),236A
this part give me trouble i never get the 214A(whiff), i want to know if i have to delay 236D,236C,236D or something else
excuz my poor english
thanks you
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hey guys i'm new here , so i 'v some problems with shen HD combos carries
I can do 5C,6B,(HD),5C,6B,214A,236A,236D,236C,236D then 214A(whiff),236A
this part give me trouble i never get the 214A(whiff), i want to know if i have to delay 236D,236C,236D or something else
excuz my poor english
thanks you
It seems that you're doing it right, but not probably timing the 214A(whiff) after that last 236D. You don't have to delay any of those 236C's or D's at all, just perform them at normal speed, and do the 214A right after that 236D hits, and it will HD cancel and whiff for you can connect the 236A follow up.
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thanks so much Desmond now i can do it consistely is so easy, my big mistake it's that I doesn't hyperdrivecance le last QCF D to QCBA(whiff).
Now another question sometimes i beat some spleeping opponent with a hop HCB,F+ABC then do my HD combo
But my question it is possible to connect the ex command with HD activation while running i can't do it
my input run HCB,F,UF+ABC and i got the HD activation and not the ex command grab+ HD activation
but when I hop before it's come consistely
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Hmm, that's new to me, HD bypass with his ex command grab? I'll try that out later tonight.
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Now another question sometimes i beat some spleeping opponent with a hop HCB,F+ABC then do my HD combo
But my question it is possible to connect the ex command with HD activation while running i can't do it
my input run HCB,F,UF+ABC and i got the HD activation and not the ex command grab+ HD activation
but when I hop before it's come consistely
You cannot do that while running. The HD bypass+Ex command grab only works in the air (since the arcade).
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is there anything shen can get, while in hd mode, off of a command grab midscreen?
i'm having trouble coming up with something that doesn't end the hd combo prematurely. this question is for the scenario that you mess up an hd combo/activation and you need to open up the opponent again.
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is there anything shen can get, while in hd mode, off of a command grab midscreen?
i'm having trouble coming up with something that doesn't end the hd combo prematurely. this question is for the scenario that you mess up an hd combo/activation and you need to open up the opponent again.
Try this, it's a combo I recorded back in the arcades but it still works: http://youtu.be/YThw1ultk_U?t=11s (http://youtu.be/YThw1ultk_U?t=11s)
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Has the damage for this combos been updated since console release? They seem slightly lower to me: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Combos (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)#Combos)
Nope, like I said before, I basically haven't touched the wiki and therefore someone should work on it now as I don't really play him since console. His qcf C (uncharged) now does 60 dmg down from 70 which is where the damage difference comes into play IIRC when we tested him at Atlus.
Okay, I'll fix it up, but I will need some help to make sure everything is exact.
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Okay, I'll fix it up, but I will need some help to make sure everything is exact.
Lemme know, I'll help.
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There's some real powerful tech that ragnarok showed me.
You can chain cr.b into st.a then hit with a super. This increases the viability of his high/low game significantly
Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2
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it's not a new tech since you can do
cr.b,st.a,ex throw ,whatever it does more than super
or crB,crC,6B ,whatever
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it's not a new tech since you can do
cr.b,st.a,ex throw ,whatever it does more than super
or crB,crC,6B ,whatever
Yeah, I agree, the cr.b, cr.A xx qcfx2+P doesn't do a lot of damage at all, but it sure is easy. Cr.B, cr.C, f+B is rather difficult at first but it deserves to be learned.
Btw peoples, I did some updating to his combos and values. I stopped at the HD combos for right now, and I will work on them later. If there is anything wrong or looks funny, please point them out for I can fix it. Also, if there is any combo variations that has more meter, post them up:
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_%28XIII%29#Combos (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_%28XIII%29#Combos)
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I don't know if any of you thought about this but after a knockdown with Shen near on in the corner & once you have your opponent trained to defend the "proper" way, CD EX Tamaken ( ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a ;c) into say EX Tenrenken ( ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ;d) is a nice setup & can scare the opponent too. If they are alternate guarding, it won't work because the whiff CD animation will force the block stun.
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you can link cr.B into cr.C?!?! why isn't anyone else doing this?
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...You didn't know that?
Uh, a simple reason, it's an annoying ass link. 2F link at best, and you have to be relatively close.
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It's a 1-frame.
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It's a 1-frame.
Okay, well there you go.
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At the very least, it doubles as a frametrap. It's the most simple confirm outside of cr B st B, or C > fB.
I have said this before, and it is FALSE information, but it feels easier if you doubletap the cr C (you can't doubletap 1f links, the reason I find it easier is likely because I have a rhythm with the two hits).
So if you're having trouble getting it out, I suggest giving that method a try.
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Was practicing some safe jumping against Shen's Bakushin and saw something strange... It looked like the powerup made Shen take less damage as well, about 1/6 less damage than normal. Not sure if this is old news or anything, but I guess that gives even more reason to use this super.
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Yea, he takes about 20% less damage than before.
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kupô
Any safe-jump setups ?
thanks
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Question:
Is there an advantage of using ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a ;c over ;dn ;df ;fd x2 + ;a/ ;c?
They use the same amount of meter but one does more damage. And I don't think the speed difference between the moves seems like that big of a deal (I could be wrong on this, though).
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Question:
Is there an advantage of using ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a ;c over ;dn ;df ;fd x2 + ;a/ ;c?
They use the same amount of meter but one does more damage. And I don't think the speed difference between the moves seems like that big of a deal (I could be wrong on this, though).
Well, for 1 more meter, you can free cancel that EX Woo Punch into a super for no drive.
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Question:
Is there an advantage of using ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a ;c over ;dn ;df ;fd x2 + ;a/ ;c?
They use the same amount of meter but one does more damage. And I don't think the speed difference between the moves seems like that big of a deal (I could be wrong on this, though).
Well, for 1 more meter, you can free cancel that EX Woo Punch into a super for no drive.
That only works for his one-meter super?
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If you hit someone in the air as an anti-air, you can free cancel it into the regular super.
You can also do a 2 meter, 1 drive combo by doing j.C, st.C, f+B, hcb,f+P, qcf+AC, qcfx2+P for a 500 dmg combo.
Other than that, if you do it as a knee jerk wake up reversal or as an anti-fireball measure, you can only free cancel into the EX Super. If you placed your character in front of the opponent and hopped backwards, that would be the distance where this no longer works for free. It only works from that distance to right in their face.
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So... in other words, if you wanna make good use of that move, you gotta spend more meter?
Of course, that's for when you're not using it as an anti-fireball move...
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Basically. I mean, some moves are just too linear and only have one use. But if I had to pick a move that is the best option for a reversal, qcf+AC is pretty good! Completely invincible on start-up for 1 meter and blows up meaties where the freeze from the super makes it too hard to connect (The level 1, I mean. The travel time for the EX super is almost instant).
Also, corner to corner carry for more meter. You can start from one end of the screen and belt someone with an EX super for 400 dmg and turn the tables on them.
But yeah, if you have two meter, and you REALLY wanna reversal someone, his EX Super and his Bakuten are probably the best moves he's got. Bakuten for close range meaties and EX Super for people trying to mess with you using fireballs or ranged moves. Or block. Blocking is good.
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Pardon my ignorance, but what's a meaty?
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It's when you attack someone during their wake-up. Here is a more detailed explanation: http://iplaywinner.com/glossary/general-terms/meaty.html (http://iplaywinner.com/glossary/general-terms/meaty.html)
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Hey guys,
Need some tips regarding Shen on:
Applying pressure.
Dealing with pressure. I have difficulty dealing with Kyo XIII.
Zone Control.
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Hey guys,
Need some tips regarding Shen on:
Applying pressure.
Dealing with pressure. I have difficulty dealing with Kyo XIII.
Zone Control.
To deal with the fireballs, you can use deflect ;dn ;db ;bk ;c. As for dealing with his 5 ;d, you can use 5 ;c auto-guard & buffer ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd punch super, 5 ;b and 5 ;d from about half a character space away. Once you have them grounded & trained, then you can "flowchart" your pressure from that point.
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Hey guys,
Need some tips regarding Shen on:
Applying pressure.
Dealing with pressure. I have difficulty dealing with Kyo XIII.
Zone Control.
I usually rush them down with Shen, as I believe he is an "In your face" character. try to hop them with C a lot when you have them cornered, if you land one you can easly confirm it into a full combo, if the opponent is a heavy defender, try to mix them up with standing C to standing B into Punch Cancelled, then quickly after down D so you can put some respect in low defense, when they start to respect you by defending low punches try to do a far qcb+A but do it from the farest position and don't do the second one if you dont hit them. Other option that I apply is putting pressure with low B into standing B, it creates a perfect space for you to zone them. other option when you know they are defending a lot, try to land a command grab after the Standing C into Forward B, run into them and EX command grab them or without EX.
About Kyo, I suggest you this:
Rule number one against Kyo: DO NOT ABUSE THE JUMP/HOP ON HIM.
Rule number 2: Abuse your normals. I believe (with all respect) that Shen has better footsies than Kyo, use them!
Rule number 3: if Kyo uses his double kicks (special movement) I believe he ends with negative frames on block, try to EX command grab him when he ends doing the 2nd kick or try to super punch him between the kicks.
I think you have to be very patient in order to be able to beat a good Kyo. Crouching C . Standing C . Low B & Command Grab are your options against him.
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Applying pressure.
I agree with Zen Woo, learn how to properly use his qcf+C feints after your blockstrings and heavy normals to make them safer, to keep your offensive momentum going, and for you bait out any kind of reversal attempts. Learn to use his command throw against opponents that like to block too much, and try your best to hit confirm well for you won't be feinting by mistake when a close C hits or throwing out a special or super on block.
I like to poke with his s.B a lot because the distance is nice and it is also pretty safe on block too. When hopping in, I like to use his j.C and j.D which has a nice amount of range and good sized hitboxes.
Dealing with pressure. I have difficulty dealing with Kyo XIII.
Firstly, try your best to make sure he doesn't get close range by poking with s.A, s.C, and s.B. If he does get close to you, as Zen Woo mentioned, look out for his double kicks. You can punish in between them with his qcf+AC because it has invincibility during its start up. But a lot of good Kyo's try not to end their blockstrings with his upkicks, but keep your eyes open.
Zone Control.
If you're dealing with someone that likes to throw fireballs all the time, you can try to absorb his fireballs (next to qcb+C as Malik mentioned) with his auto-guard st.C. If you have meter, you can go through them with his qcf+AC, qcfx2+P, and his qcfx2+AC.
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Thanks guys much appreciated!
Btw Malik, what did you mean by 5?
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Thanks guys much appreciated!
Btw Malik, what did you mean by 5?
5 is neutral or standing (not holding a direction) by numpad directional notation where
789
456
123
correspond to
;ub ;up ;uf
;bk ;st ;fd
;db ;dn ;df
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Hey guys,
Need some tips regarding Shen on:
Applying pressure.
Great tips from everyone. Just wanted to add that since players are generally good at blocking against Shen, be happy with dealing guard crush and don't feel pressured to go for a command grab! Command grabs are really strong but you'll be punished big if your opponent reads them; command grabs are as risky as antiair DPs imo. If your opponent seems worried about your hop C combo starter and is happy with blocking high, you can lead with Shen's j.CD for extra guard crush. Follow up on the ground with cl.C-f.B as normal or use his st.CD if too far for cl.C-f.B. Although it is safest to cancel Shen's charge punch, using the level 1 charge release for it deals more guard crush and it's -1 on block which you may or may not be comfortable with. Messing up the charge (too short) will make it -6 though which is pretty bad. An alternative is to cancel his the cl.C-fB or CD into qcfA. It's -3 which is still fairly hard to punish and there's no chance of messing up the charge timing. If opponents are recklessly trying to pressure you when you're slightly minus, you can hit them (hopefully counter hit) with Shen's DM. When you're -1 or -3, be wary of throw attempts. Of course, never use minus on block moves against characters with 1f grabs unless you think that it will be so unexpected that they won't punish.
Keep an eye on opponent's guard gauge. Shen's power-up EXDM does 50% guard crush (but opponent recovers from guard crush before Shen recovers from his EXDM, so all you could really do is max cancel and you'd have to be in HD for that). Shen's fully charged qcfC does 40%. Experienced players will roll during the time stops, but you can still use Shen's qcfC (level 1 charged) for a quick forward advance plus a bit more guard crush. I haven't had luck with this, but you can also try timing the timestop guard crush attacks just before opponent is in a ready state to prevent them from doing the easy-mode roll to avoid the guard crush.
Try not to get too desperate to guard crush once their guard gauge is low since opponents tend to get desperate; consider baiting your opponents' invincible specials and supers. Be ready to punish jumps and rolls too.
Dealing with pressure. I have difficulty dealing with Kyo XIII.
As everyone else has said, Shen has great normals. He can shut out hop approaches with st.A or far C (extra leeway for timing thanks to armor) and antiair with cr.C. Shen has fast far-reaching cr.B and st.B too. It may seem risky but you can even attempt antiair trades using qcfA, qcfC(level 1 charge, but cancel if you feel like it) or qcfD.
Although I prefer far C for the armor and speed, the slower st.D has further range and can catch unsuspecting opponents. Shen's wakeup CABC EXDM and EX command grab are both 3 frames. A perfect safe jump that let's the attacker block Shen's CABC EXDM will be caught by Shen's wakeup EX command grab before the safe jumper is able to jump again (the safe jump attack adds landing recovery preventing a jump escape from Shen's EX grab even though they can block upon landing)
Zone Control.
Great tips from everyone again. Just wanted to add Shen gets meter from qcbC as opposed to using armor far C. Moreover, you can cancel Shen's qcbC(if it eats a projectile) to any special or super at no drive cost.
If an opponent recklessly hops towards you taking their projectile's hitstun/blockstun (or the recovery of Shen's qcbC) for granted, you can cancel qcbC to qcfA or qcfD, which both work as combo starters(even on trade!). After a qcfA, you can use punch DM/EXDM based on their height. After a qcfD, you may be able to fit in qcfA right after before punch DM/EXDM.
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^
Thanks Karn much appreciated!
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thank you karn could you tell me how you use the bakutan CABC , do you option select it and when you have to use it.
thanks
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thank you karn could you tell me how you use the bakutan CABC , do you option select it and when you have to use it.
thanks
Although the KOF XI shortcut for CABC is gone, and you still have a considerable long amount of buffer time. I always tap CAB~C and hit confirm the C.
Try this: Tap CAB fast as you're waking up (but no normal comes out), and dash slightly and then press the C. Or try using d.C for anti airs but be in the habit of buffering AB when your d.C is out, when your opponent starts trying to jump over and bait your d.C press ABC afterwards (it's funny as he'll too).
You'll understand how much leniency there is to buffering it.
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thank you karn could you tell me how you use the bakutan CABC , do you option select it and when you have to use it.
thanks
For option selecting, I would attempt CABC after recovering from the blockstun of any attack that is -4 or worse (punishable) if my opponent is in range.
I mostly use it the way Kane317 described though. In more detail, what I also do to bait jumps sometimes is cr.A and buffer CAB during its recovery. Crouching helps against antiair since Shen has a smaller hurtbox for opponent to hit. The only issue is whether or not you're able to buffer CAB quickly enough during the cr.A to not accidentally get another normal to come out before you complete the CAB buffer. If you have life to spare, it is better to antiair with cr.C and risk trading rather than waste meter on CABC since it also prevents meter gain for a long while. Consider standard meter management. Don't hold back if Bakutan and/or a powered up attack after it will kill your opponent since you wouldn't have gained much meter afterwards anyway.
Although the KOF XI shortcut for CABC is gone, and you still have a considerable long amount of buffer time. I always tap CAB~C and hit confirm the C.
Try this: Tap CAB fast as you're waking up (but no normal comes out), and dash slightly and then press the C.
You'll understand how much leniency there is to buffering it.
Yeah, those are the best times: when you're in recovery from attacks/specials (usually whiffed), in hitstun, in blockstun, or waking up. Might as well buffer CAB while waiting for opponent to put themselves in a vulnerable state (most obvious against opponent in air, though you could also react to most meaty overhead attempts). You'll still have to gauge if they are high enough that they aren't safe jumping you, but safe jumping 3f EXDM is usually done with obvious setups. Remember that Shen's EX grab beats proper safe jumps if you recognize a safe jump setup. Make sure you finish pressing CAB just before you recover/stand up so you get longer time to delay the C that finishes Bakutan
Or try using d.C for anti airs but be in the habit of buffering AB when your d.C is out, when your opponent starts trying to jump over and bait your d.C press ABC afterwards (it's funny as he'll too).
lol I have to stop falling for things like that
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Ok i will stydies this to level up my anti-air game, because shen don't have dp's or invicible move my friend like to jump a me, they know how to whiff my stA, 2C and i forgot to use bakutan to take the momentum cause sometimes my HD bar is already full and they scary about my HD combo
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Ok i will stydies this to level up my anti-air game, because shen don't have dp's or invicible move my friend like to jump a me, they know how to whiff my stA, 2C and i forgot to use bakutan to take the momentum cause sometimes my HD bar is already full and they scary about my HD combo
How do they make your st.A and 2C whiff?
You might want to review this part of The Beginner's Incomplete Guide to KOF:
[Chapter 4: Short Hop Defense]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3KVgI1LvU#t=10m12s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3KVgI1LvU#t=10m12s)
There are examples where Kyo uses crouch C and it whiffs because:
a) Kyo guessed when to 2C instead of reacted, and in the other clip,
b) The opponent was outside of the range of Kyo's 2C.
Although Shen's 2C is very fast with a good antiair hitbox, it has long recovery on whiff, so do your best to only use it on reaction against hops/jumps that come within range.
Against an opponent who tries to jump far in front of you to be outside the range of shen's 2C, try to antiair with far C instead (it will also help a lot if you can get the timing for using the armor of far C; it depends on the timing of your opponent's attack). Good luck!
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Just wanted to ask anyone here that might be able to do this consistently but I'm having trouble hitting the command grab into charged qcf+C in the corner consistently.
I find I get the non charged version alot as well as charging for too long and completely whiffing but are there any ticks or visual clue that people use to get the timing right? Any old thing that helps you get it more consistent would be great.
Thanks loads :)
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Just wanted to ask anyone here that might be able to do this consistently but I'm having trouble hitting the command grab into charged qcf+C in the corner consistently.
I find I get the non charged version alot as well as charging for too long and completely whiffing but are there any ticks or visual clue that people use to get the timing right? Any old thing that helps you get it more consistent would be great.
Thanks loads :)
During the HD combo right, well you can usually visually see it but a tip that I do with sound it to wait until Shen grunts "UHHHH....." If there's no game sound to your access then after the command grab after doing 236 ;c, hold it for the bare minimum then continue the sequence. This shouldn't take too much practice (less than 15 minutes in training mode) as it's just a matter of timing so just grind it out & you should be ok. Always remember that there's always the change of human error so no one lands everything 100%.
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Just wanted to ask anyone here that might be able to do this consistently but I'm having trouble hitting the command grab into charged qcf+C in the corner consistently.
I find I get the non charged version alot as well as charging for too long and completely whiffing but are there any ticks or visual clue that people use to get the timing right? Any old thing that helps you get it more consistent would be great.
Thanks loads :)
During the HD combo right, well you can usually visually see it but a tip that I do with sound it to wait until Shen grunts "UHHHH....." If there's no game sound to your access then after the command grab after doing 236 ;c, hold it for the bare minimum then continue the sequence. This shouldn't take too much practice (less than 15 minutes in training mode) as it's just a matter of timing so just grind it out & you should be ok. Always remember that there's always the change of human error so no one lands everything 100%.
Sorry Malik, It's not that I don't know the technique for it, it's that it just never seems to connect (maybe 1 in 20 attempts if I'm lucky) but maybe if I explain the problem I'm having it'll make more sense.
When I do st.C, f+B, HD st.C, f+B, grab I try to do qcf+C and charge it as you have figured out from my bad explaination before (sorry about that). If I try to input the qcf+C early and hold it to make sure I HD cancel on the earliest frame it messes up my charge time although, I can visually tell when he has charged enough. There seems to be a wierd point in between the initial punch (with 60 damage) and the charged version (for 80 damage) where you get the speed of the 60 damage version but 80 damage but I can't seem to hit that point at all really. Either way I know I probably just need to try and find that point consistently but I can't at the moment, I would probably find the audio clue useful but my speakers are broken so unfortunately that tip isn't getting me anywhere lol
Just want to confirm a few things though, I assume you do have to HD cancel at the earliest possible point after the grab right? If so do you use the hold button techniques or do you try to aim for the exact frame to HD cancel on? Also, can you do this point blank in the corner or does it have to ranged like the grab into qcf+D combo?
Guess I've got to keep on going on that one then :(
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Just wanted to ask anyone here that might be able to do this consistently but I'm having trouble hitting the command grab into charged qcf+C in the corner consistently.
I find I get the non charged version alot as well as charging for too long and completely whiffing but are there any ticks or visual clue that people use to get the timing right? Any old thing that helps you get it more consistent would be great.
Thanks loads :)
During the HD combo right, well you can usually visually see it but a tip that I do with sound it to wait until Shen grunts "UHHHH....." If there's no game sound to your access then after the command grab after doing 236 ;c, hold it for the bare minimum then continue the sequence. This shouldn't take too much practice (less than 15 minutes in training mode) as it's just a matter of timing so just grind it out & you should be ok. Always remember that there's always the change of human error so no one lands everything 100%.
Sorry Malik, It's not that I don't know the technique for it, it's that it just never seems to connect (maybe 1 in 20 attempts if I'm lucky) but maybe if I explain the problem I'm having it'll make more sense.
When I do st.C, f+B, HD st.C, f+B, grab I try to do qcf+C and charge it as you have figured out from my bad explaination before (sorry about that). If I try to input the qcf+C early and hold it to make sure I HD cancel on the earliest frame it messes up my charge time although, I can visually tell when he has charged enough. There seems to be a wierd point in between the initial punch (with 60 damage) and the charged version (for 80 damage) where you get the speed of the 60 damage version but 80 damage but I can't seem to hit that point at all really. Either way I know I probably just need to try and find that point consistently but I can't at the moment, I would probably find the audio clue useful but my speakers are broken so unfortunately that tip isn't getting me anywhere lol
Just want to confirm a few things though, I assume you do have to HD cancel at the earliest possible point after the grab right? If so do you use the hold button techniques or do you try to aim for the exact frame to HD cancel on? Also, can you do this point blank in the corner or does it have to ranged like the grab into qcf+D combo?
Guess I've got to keep on going on that one then :(
I personally don't use the hold button technique, I just practiced the timing until I got comfortable with it, to each it's own. Also you can do this point blank in the corner as well (I thought it wasn't possible until I practiced a few times to realize it actually is) & the timing feels no different to me.
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Just wanted to ask anyone here that might be able to do this consistently but I'm having trouble hitting the command grab into charged qcf+C in the corner consistently.
I find I get the non charged version alot as well as charging for too long and completely whiffing but are there any ticks or visual clue that people use to get the timing right? Any old thing that helps you get it more consistent would be great.
Thanks loads :)
During the HD combo right, well you can usually visually see it but a tip that I do with sound it to wait until Shen grunts "UHHHH....." If there's no game sound to your access then after the command grab after doing 236 ;c, hold it for the bare minimum then continue the sequence. This shouldn't take too much practice (less than 15 minutes in training mode) as it's just a matter of timing so just grind it out & you should be ok. Always remember that there's always the change of human error so no one lands everything 100%.
Sorry Malik, It's not that I don't know the technique for it, it's that it just never seems to connect (maybe 1 in 20 attempts if I'm lucky) but maybe if I explain the problem I'm having it'll make more sense.
When I do st.C, f+B, HD st.C, f+B, grab I try to do qcf+C and charge it as you have figured out from my bad explaination before (sorry about that). If I try to input the qcf+C early and hold it to make sure I HD cancel on the earliest frame it messes up my charge time although, I can visually tell when he has charged enough. There seems to be a wierd point in between the initial punch (with 60 damage) and the charged version (for 80 damage) where you get the speed of the 60 damage version but 80 damage but I can't seem to hit that point at all really. Either way I know I probably just need to try and find that point consistently but I can't at the moment, I would probably find the audio clue useful but my speakers are broken so unfortunately that tip isn't getting me anywhere lol
Just want to confirm a few things though, I assume you do have to HD cancel at the earliest possible point after the grab right? If so do you use the hold button techniques or do you try to aim for the exact frame to HD cancel on? Also, can you do this point blank in the corner or does it have to ranged like the grab into qcf+D combo?
Guess I've got to keep on going on that one then :(
I personally don't use the hold button technique, I just practiced the timing until I got comfortable with it, to each it's own. Also you can do this point blank in the corner as well (I thought it wasn't possible until I practiced a few times to realize it actually is) & the timing feels no different to me.
Hey RobocopTwo, it's been awhile.
I know what you're talking about and I could never get that combo to work (http://youtu.be/5fdfVsZFlu0?t=26s), the Shen 3 stock HD kill combo (I know there's another one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIWM9mpPr6E#ws) floating around but that is spacing specific).
Also I am curious if it's specific to Takuma and probably Terry since IIRC in the arcades, that's who
Shen could do a free non-drive canceled juggle off the command grab, in the corner (fall differently?)
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cr.B xx st.A
Lets talk about this string. If you do cr.B cr.B cr.D, then try cr.B cr.B st.A(whiff), cr.D it's actually a tighter frame trap.
cr.B xN into run up cmd throw is a great setup but if its your only one it may become telegraphed. The st.A whiff may help mix it up to keep them on their toes. I also think the standing up just adds a visual component - a lot of people do crouch A xx overhead for the visual or crouching shen into an overhead... I see high level Shen's sometimes do cr.B st.A cr.B x2-3 into HD confirm.
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I finally made a dreamcancel account...shoutouts to Malik. so to add to to the post above...
all shens should utilize the cr. B x2/3 x qcf a blockstring to test their opponents. if they block your cr. b, you will get st. a which will whiff if they crouch block or get blocked if they were holding up/back (+3 frame advantage). if your cr. b hits you can just tack on another qcf a or qcf AC after for a low hit confirm into his DM. this gives you damage on the rare occasions you're trying to make things happen without drive. of course if you're close enough you can do ex command grab as well.
so again the buffer is cr. b, cr. b, cr. b, qcf a, (if hit: qcf a/ac)
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Who is a good Shen player at utilizing his cr B -> St C link? Looking for ways or patterns to set it up. Most Shens I watch always have HD so anything low is just confirmed into that.
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cr. B to st. C? I just know of cr. B to cr. C that some players use. I know BALA used that a few times in the grand finals at evo last year. EVO 2012 - KOF XIII Grand Final - MadKOF vs. Bala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFSs5ygXgR4#ws)
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Who is a good Shen player at utilizing his cr B -> St C link? Looking for ways or patterns to set it up. Most Shens I watch always have HD so anything low is just confirmed into that.
Not self bragging or anything but I use that string pretty frequently & it is viable as well as doubling as a frame trap.
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Who is a good Shen player at utilizing his cr B -> St C link? Looking for ways or patterns to set it up. Most Shens I watch always have HD so anything low is just confirmed into that.
Not self bragging or anything but I use that string pretty frequently & it is viable as well as doubling as a frame trap.
You have any notable matches I can check out?
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Check out Tenga/Tenkawa, he usually plays Shen on point so you'll see a lot more than just HD confirm. (Look for Shen/Duo Lon/Ash in the match vid document on the fb group :P)
Also check out cafeid archives - I see a lot of the korean Shen players using both that as well as stuff like st.C qcf+D frame trap into st.A or crouch C which I think is underutilized as well.
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Who is a good Shen player at utilizing his cr B -> St C link? Looking for ways or patterns to set it up. Most Shens I watch always have HD so anything low is just confirmed into that.
Not self bragging or anything but I use that string pretty frequently & it is viable as well as doubling as a frame trap.
You have any notable matches I can check out?
You don't need to watch any matches to know how useful it is, just go to training mode & put the dummy on 1-Guard Jump & see for yourself how useful it is.
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Who is a good Shen player at utilizing his cr B -> St C link? Looking for ways or patterns to set it up. Most Shens I watch always have HD so anything low is just confirmed into that.
Not self bragging or anything but I use that string pretty frequently & it is viable as well as doubling as a frame trap.
You have any notable matches I can check out?
You don't need to watch any matches to know how useful it is, just go to training mode & put the dummy on 1-Guard Jump & see for yourself how useful it is.
So no matches?
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Who is a good Shen player at utilizing his cr B -> St C link? Looking for ways or patterns to set it up. Most Shens I watch always have HD so anything low is just confirmed into that.
Not self bragging or anything but I use that string pretty frequently & it is viable as well as doubling as a frame trap.
You have any notable matches I can check out?
You don't need to watch any matches to know how useful it is, just go to training mode & put the dummy on 1-Guard Jump & see for yourself how useful it is.
So no matches?
Wait I don't get what you are asking for. Are you asking for people to play with or are you asking for match footage where people use the ;dn ;b ~ ;st ;c frame trap or a certain players matches? If you're looking for the ladder, as I mentioned before, it's not necessary to know how useful it is when you can follow the steps I mentioned previously.
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He wants to see matches where players to use it to see how they implement it. Where they use it in strings, etc. He knows it's useful, but just wants to see players that use it is all. ;up
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He wants to see matches where players to use it to see how they implement it. Where they use it in strings, etc. He knows it's useful, but just wants to see players that use it is all. ;up
You really don't need to see a match video to see how it's done. If you understand frame traps and proper offensive pressure, you can play around with it in training mode and in offline matches yourself...just try it.
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He wants to see matches where players to use it to see how they implement it. Where they use it in strings, etc. He knows it's useful, but just wants to see players that use it is all. ;up
You really don't need to see a match video to see how it's done. If you understand frame traps and proper offensive pressure, you can play around with it in training mode and in offline matches yourself...just try it.
Understand how it is done and what frame traps are but I like to watch a player who uses it a decent amount (again if every Shen used to a lot I wouldn't be asking this, but I don't see it utilized as much when I watch Shens) and see how he implements it. For example, does he go for it after a couple grabs/command grabs? What particular block string or series of strings does he like to use before he runs up and uses it. How often does he empty hop into it? Etc.
If their isn't any videos people can think of that is fine it is a kind of obscure thing to ask for. The second time I asked if their were any vids I was kind of just joking around anyways.
But yea no big deal ill just dig up some of your matches Malik and really pay attention.
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For example, does he go for it after a couple grabs/command grabs? What particular block string or series of strings does he like to use before he runs up and uses it. How often does he empty hop into it? Etc.
All of that depends on the player and his opponent. Plus, you can do all of that yourself, it sounds like good ideas, just experiment and try them. :)
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Really simple HD, for anyone who needs to dumb it down.
Usual confirm of cr.B st.B or close C f.B into HD activate...
4 bars: close C xx f.B xx qcf+A xx cmd grab xx qcf+AC, qcf qcf+C xx neomax.
3 bars: close C xx f.B xx qcf+A xx cmd grab xx qcf+AC, neomax.
The cmd grab into ex punch spaces them for hold button buffer followups without needing to time anything really. The qcf+A can be omitted if spacing is close, but that makes it much more consistent. Works with EX super -> neomax as well but it's not as easy to time.
It's not meter-efficient or optimal, but hey, if it'll finish the match and you just need something simple...
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Found something interesting with Shen's qcf+A and qcf+C. If you want to squeeze more damage off a stray hit on a grounded opponent, you can drive cancel the A punch into EX qcf+K (EX qcb+P > qcf+A in the corner) and the C punch into EX qcb+P > qcf+A for more damage. Also, the EX moves won't come out on block, so they can be buffered during the qcf+P. Seems to work at least on Leona, haven't confirmed on smaller bodies yet. So for instance you can get:
From qcf+A grounded hit:
- [1m Anywhere] qcf+A, EX qcf+K, qcf+D, qcf+D, far D (336)
- [1m Corner] qcf+A, EX qcb+P > qcf+A, qcf+D, qcf+A, cr.C (366)
- [2m Anywhere] qcf+A, EX qcf+K, qcf+D, qcf+D, qcfx2+P (441)
From qcf+C grounded hit (uncharged):
- [1m Anywhere] qcf+C, EX qcb+P > qcf+A, qcf+A (253)
- [1m Corner] qcf+C, EX qcb+P > qcf+A, qcf+D, qcf+A, cr.C (361)
- [2m Anywhere] qcf+C, EX qcb+P > qcf+A, qcf+A, qcfx2+P (429)
- [2m Corner] qcf+C, EX qcb+P > qcf+A, qcf+D, qcfx2+P (433)
I think this has some potential. It's not uncommon for Shen to pressure his opponent and eventually catch them with a qcf+P.
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Only 4 bars to 100% an opponent!
KOF XIII: Shen Combo (1029 dmg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpwCEr0rSuw#)
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HOLY SHIT THIS COMBO!!!
KOF XIII: Shen Guard Crash Combo (1001 dmg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAD1t-zgLfw#)
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HOLY SHIT THIS COMBO!!!
KOF XIII: Shen Guard Crash Combo (1001 dmg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAD1t-zgLfw#)
No offense but this is pretty old. BBZ did this exact string two EVO's ago Vs. Kyabetsu I think on stream & can be pulled up
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KOF XIII : Shen Woo best damages combos tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QdmkMgThEA#)
KOF XIII : Shen Woo Combos Tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcrlnGqlrM#)
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wow thanks for posting that i found it extremely useful since I'm learning Shen. thanks a lot
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Thanks for the post. I just started playing Shen, and this has given me some more ideas of combos to add. Time to get back to practice mode.
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Just when I thought I'd seen it all with Shen...
KoF XIII: Shen Woo combo video (FINAL version) 60FPS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba27C_PmVk4#ws)
I didn't even know that cr.B to cr.C was a target combo!