Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Terry Bogard => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:12:16 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/terry.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
Buster Throw - ;bk / ;fd+ ;c / ;d
Command Normals
Rising Upper - ;df + ;c
Back Knuckle - ;fd + ;a
Special Moves
Power Wave - ;qcf + ;a / ;c *
Burn Knuckle - ;qcb + ;a / ;c *
Crack Shoot - ;qcb + ;b / ;d *
Rising Tackle - (charge) ;dn, ;up + ;a / ;c *
Desperation Moves
Power Geyser - ;qcb ;hcf + ;a / ;c *
Buster Wolf - ;qcf ;qcf + ;b / ;d *
Neomax
Trinity Geyser - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a ;c
Terry's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_(XIII)).
Console changes:
* Crouching A > Crouching C is a chain combo. Can be canceled.
* Normal Buster Wolf’s (qcf x2+P) dashing speed is now identical to the EX version. But the Invincibility is the same as before.
- Far D’s recovery time has been reduced.
- Standing CD’s hit detection lasts a bit longer.
* Trinity Geyser’s (qcb~hcf+P) hitbox has been changed so that it actually hits 3 times.
Producer Yamamoto says: We’ve mainly buffed up his normals, and he can do solid combos with the addition of chains. Also, His Trinity Geyser’s hitbox has been changed, and he can also hit the opponent afterwards in the corner.
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Reserved
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Reserved
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You can do the following as a starter:
st.C, df+C =>
st.D, df+C
d.B, d.A, d.C =>
d.C, df+C (Need to be close) =>
d.B, d.A, df+C (Need to be really close) =>
All of the above starters link to the following follow-ups:
=> qcb+K (Crackshoot)
=> qcf+A/C (Power Wave)
=> qcb, hcf+A/C (Power Geyser)
=> qcfx2+B/D (Buster Wolf)
=> qcb+A (Burn Knuckle) [DC] qcb+K (Crackshoot), d~u +AC (EX Rising Tackle) OR d~u+A/C (Rising Tackle) (#1 BnB) (392-407 dmg)
d.B x3, st.B is a bit different. That can be followed up with Power Geyser, Buster Wolf, any version of crackshoot, or an EX Burn Knuckle only. Can't do anything else. It's good when you don't have meter. Not so good when you have the meter to do DC. You'll get stock a LOT faster than you'll get drive so doing a super works too.There are some people that do other versions or super cancels. You're free to use them as well, no harm in it. They just result in a soft knockdown anyway.
=> qcb+A (Burn Knuckle) [SC] qcfx2+K (Buster Wolf)(EX too)/ qcb, hcf + P (Power Geyser) (EX too)
Corner only => qcb+A (Burn Knuckle), [DC] qcb+D (Crackshoot), qcfx2 + BD (EX Buster Wolf) ...delay and optional... qcfx2 + BD (EX Buster Wolf)
=> qcf+A (Power Wave) [SC] qcfx2+K (Buster Wolf)(EX too)/ qcb, hcf + P (Power Geyser) (EX too)
You can get creative with Terry if you're willing to DC twice or you could just go for an HD combo.
For example: You can HD bypass his new target combo by doing d.B, d.A, d.BC which will come out as a d.C. Also even more whacky! You can do d.B x2 and HD bypass into d.C by doing d.BC! It's very useful and can set you up for just about ay HD combo you were intending to do.
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Terry's ability to do
qcb+A (DC) qcb+B, EX Buster Wolf
mid-screen is a big help. I used to always play Terry first, since (outside of HD combos) I didn't feel he had much use for meter. I tend to play him second now.
Edit: Nevermind. qcb+A (SC) EX Power Geyser still does more damage. Whatever! Style is important too! :P
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Additional console changes:
Power Geyser can be max canceled.
Power Geyser notes:
Max Canceled Power Geyser seems to make neomax miss the 3rd hit most of the time when its SCed from Burn Knuckle/Power Wave(C version) from mid screen.
EX version it always lands all 3 hits unless its done in the corner.
100% HD Combo 4 stocks(1029dmg)
Position: 2p starting position(a bit less if you use the alternative listed in notes.).
J. ;d, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;b ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;fd + ;a ;c, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk+ ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;b, ;dn ;up + ;c
Notes
EX Geyser must always be max canceled on last hit(combo counter should be 9 hits)
can use ;d, ;df + ;c instead of ;d, ;fd + ;a (1012dmg)
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lol, thats my terry bnb hd combo. mine does less damage but is easier. i start it with either ;c ;df ;c which is real easy timing wise or of lows ;dn ;b ;dn ;a ;dn ;c, both obviously do less damge because of weaker attacks being used and extra damage scaling. gonna change it.
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Don't see these listed anywhere on the wiki. These are the best dmg combos i managed to find for 1-3 stocks.
1-2 Stock HD Combo(works anywhere)(754~804)
J. ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;b ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a ;c, ;dn ;up + ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up + ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up + ;c or ;a ;c
Notes:
Dmg will vary a litte depending on how many hits Crack Shoot lands.
There is a height limit for the last Rising Tackle to connect if its too high it will completely miss.
754 dmg if ended with normal Rising Tackle.
804 dmg if ended with EX Rising Tackle.
Also possible to end with Buster Wolf instead of Rising Tackle but does less dmg and has a chance to completely miss.
3 Stock HD Combo(902dmg~)
Position: 2p starting position(a bit less if you use the alternative listed in notes.).
J. ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;b ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;dn ;df ;fd + ;c, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;b or ;d, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;b, ;dn ;up + ;c
Notes:
Buster Wolf must be Max Canceled as soon as it does 2nd hit(hit effect must still be on screen) or you wont be able to follow up.
Can be done from exactly midscreen if using ;d, ;df+ ;c instead of ;d, ;fd + ;a
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Don't see these listed anywhere on the wiki. These are the best dmg combos i managed to find for 1-3 stocks.
1-2 Stock HD Combo(works anywhere)(754~804)
J. ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;b ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a ;c, ;dn ;up + ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up + ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up + ;c or ;a ;c
Notes:
Dmg will vary a litte depending on how many hits Crack Shoot lands.
There is a height limit for the last Rising Tackle to connect if its too high it will completely miss.
754 dmg if ended with normal Rising Tackle.
804 dmg if ended with EX Rising Tackle.
Also possible to end with Buster Wolf instead of Rising Tackle but does less dmg and has a chance to completely miss.
3 Stock HD Combo(902dmg~)
Position: 2p starting position(a bit less if you use the alternative listed in notes.).
J. ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;b ;c, ;d, ;fd + ;a, ;dn ;df ;fd + ;c, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;b or ;d, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;b, ;dn ;up + ;c
Notes:
Buster Wolf must be Max Canceled as soon as it does 2nd hit(hit effect must still be on screen) or you wont be able to follow up.
Can be done from exactly midscreen if using ;d, ;df+ ;c instead of ;d, ;fd + ;a
These are really good! I figured, for the first HD combo, you wouldn't have enough meter after all those cancels. In any case, I'll post a variation. It does about 30 dmg less, but you have enough wiggle room to max cancel or throw in a DM to push it a little higher.
j.D, st.D, f+A [HDA], st.D, f+A, qcb+AC, qcb+B, d~u+C (1) [HDC], qcb+C [HDC], ~delay~ qcb+D , d~u+C (1) [HDC], qcb+C [HDC], ~delay~ qcb+D [, d~u+C = 727 dmg
After the first down-up C, you can insert qcb+AC, qcb+A, d~u+C(1 hit). This string won't HD cancel so you can conserve meter and do something bigger. You could also aim to end with this so you get big damage at the end.
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did you guys notice that the wiki says regular ;a power wave does not go full screen? or that ;c version goes farther than ;a? it has been saying that for the longest time....
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did you guys notice that the wiki says regular ;a power wave does not go full screen? or that ;c version goes farther than ;a? it has been saying that for the longest time....
Fixed! Thanks for the correction. :)
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did you guys notice that the wiki says regular ;a power wave does not go full screen? or that ;c version goes farther than ;a? it has been saying that for the longest time....
The Power Geyser motion listed is incorrect too. Pretty sure the game lists it as ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;fd + ;a / ;c.
It might also be a good idea to make a list of useful block strings(safe/unsafe) and what can be done after depending on the situation.
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That's pretty much the same thing, x25. qcb, half circle forward does the same motion.
To your second question, there's not much in terms of set-ups.
Combo Starters
st.D, df+C =>
st.C, df+C =>
d.D (blocked), df+C =>
d.b, d.A, d.C =>
Safeish enders
=> qcf+A (Use against grapplers)
=> qcb+B/D (Use on everyone else. B version is -2 frames on block, D version is +1 if they block low and like -1 if they block standing. Either way, very safe but can be command grabbed)
=> qcf+AC (Use to continue pressure or add in a mix up_
=> qcb+BD (Use after d.Bx2 or a blocked d.D for low-high mix up_
There you go.
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If you guys don't mind, I'll be compiling some of the info listed here, the old Terry arcade thread, and things listed on the wiki, to try and get a decent Terry combo thread started. I'm also thinking I'd like to take the approach of Dustloop, and highlight the most useful combos in red, and everything else in black.
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a combo thread sounds awesome, and the red highlight is great Idea. sometimes when I look at a list of combos, its hard to decide what I should be tackling first and what would be most useful.
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Since there isn't a Terry video thread, I'll leave this here:
KOF XIII KCE公開動画その３４４現役声優による基本解説講座(Terry) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LvAes-eAf0#)
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Thanks, Desmond! I'll compile known videos and make a video thread soon.
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yeah some small terry titbits.
when combing in hd mode and you cancel into crackshoot ;d version, you always gotta do it as late as posssible so all 4 hits ofthe crackshoot hit. this way you can easiyl juggle afterwards. if you hitthem too early youcant juggle them or you gotta do it real quick like with a ex rising tackle, but like in the vid even then they bounce off after only a few hits.
and i was tripping as well in training mode, during the normal terry hd combo (same one mr kof did) ifyou hit them with the busta wolf really high and your a lil further from the corner than usual, the trinnety geyser hit 4! times. that HUGE damage. they do fall real quicklyafterwards so i dont know know for sure if its possible to juggle afterwards, guy in vid used1 ex bk in his combo as well, i dont and only use normal busta wolf and NM (thus 3 bars, so maybe an exbk or busta/exbusta might connect afterwards.
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kinda confused..
from srk wiki about crack shoot
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Terry (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Terry)
Although the ;d Version has frame advantage on block rather than being at neutral like ;b Version, it takes distance to space it properly to land on an opponent. Also, the ;d Version is frequently used in Drive/Hyper Drive combos and as a preemptive anti-air from strange angles, such as the opponent trying to use a cross-up attack.
Overall, Crack Shoot is a bit slower than in the past KOF games and is more reminiscent of Terry's Crack Shoot from Garou: Mark of The Wolves. If anything, Crack Shoot in King of Fighters XIII is the medium in between KOF's Crack Shoot and MOTW's Crack Shoot, but it is not an overhead.
but when i tested it against Goro he threw Terry in both versions....just after crouch guard i couldn't throw the ;d version
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^^^ from what I understand, the crouch guarded D version is more safe than standing...as well as doing qcb D from a far and placing one blocked hit from it. They are only hit by the last active frame. You can read up on that in more detail here: http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/27/a-guide-to-frame-data/ (http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/27/a-guide-to-frame-data/)
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Okay, so lemme go in on this:
I won't say I'm the Terry expert, but I'll try to help as much as I can. When Terry does a B crackshoot, it's -2 frames of recovery. That means he can't be normal thrown out of it reliably. When Terry does that to a standing opponent, it's about the same, but when he does it to a crouching opponent, depending on how tall the opponent is, he's +2 frames on block. That means Terry's at an advantage if someone blocks low.
Now, if you can't dp+K grab Terry out of it, that means the grab is not an instant 1-frame command grab. Specifically, they can't do it to punish Terry. Daimon's hcb, f+P grab IS a 1-frame command grab and is probably the punish of choice without spending meter.
Hope this helps!
EDIT:
Also, something I noticed that Nocturnal did to me in a match (So can't take any credit for this what so ever). After a regular combo midscreen, st.C, df+C, [DC] qcb+B .... He did st.B and then waited to throw out a power wave. If timed properly, you could put someone in block stun as they're landing or maybe even make them land on it.
I don't understand it because Nocturnal developed it, not me. However, I think it's worth a shot with Terry for some midscreen reassurance without spending meter.
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Thanks a lot...
mmm...if i were a grappler player...i would (against Terry) always stand blocking since he doesn't have a low special (except EX power wave which it slow anyway) and his ;dn+ ;b & ;dn+ ;d have a short range..
;b version is so hard to stand blocking in reaction...unlike the ;d version ...
but its is so fun to use if my opp doesn't know this info+both versions on airborne opp combo to Buster Wolf ;)
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Another Terry vid:
ＫＯＦⅩⅢ 練習対戦研究実況プレイ 013 テリー① (Terry Master Class) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNHEKrvSRPc#ws)
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yeah some small terry titbits.
when combing in hd mode and you cancel into crackshoot ;d version, you always gotta do it as late as posssible so all 4 hits ofthe crackshoot hit. this way you can easiyl juggle afterwards. if you hitthem too early youcant juggle them or you gotta do it real quick like with a ex rising tackle, but like in the vid even then they bounce off after only a few hits.
While it's true you have to juggle with the D Crackshoot low, you don't have to get all four hits for a juggle to be possible. It is the optimal way, I'll agree.
Also, what did people think of the corner combo in the video at the top of this page? The one where you DC into D Crackshoot then do EX Geyser and link to Rising Tackle? I've learned it to use if I think it will definitely kill my opponent where the usual bnb wouldn't, but has anyone seen more merit to using it?
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I'm not sure if they covered this in the Master Class Terry video, but this was something I was working on.
So if Terry does a d.B, st.B into D crackshoot and it hits twice, as long as the person does not attempt a 1F command grab or an move that's invincible on start up, Terry will hit them with a st.C. When you do d.B, st.B into B crackshoot, if the opponent times a 3 frame move, he can trade with your st.C. So what this tells me is that when he hits standing opponents, he's +1 frames and probably +2 with D crackshoot. However, Terry adjusts his hat every time he does crackshoot. This is also important to note because if you don't cancel that animation (which starts as he puts his feet on the ground after crackshoot) you won't be able to do anything till he's done which means the link is really tight.
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I'm not sure if they covered this in the Master Class Terry video, but this was something I was working on.
So if Terry does a d.B, st.B into D crackshoot and it hits twice, as long as the person does not attempt a 1F command grab or an move that's invincible on start up, Terry will hit them with a st.C. When you do d.B, st.B into B crackshoot, if the opponent times a 3 frame move, he can trade with your st.C. So what this tells me is that when he hits standing opponents, he's +1 frames and probably +2 with D crackshoot. However, Terry adjusts his hat every time he does crackshoot. This is also important to note because if you don't cancel that animation (which starts as he puts his feet on the ground after crackshoot) you won't be able to do anything till he's done which means the link is really tight.
I could have sworn you can cancel the hat adjustment animation at any point in time. As in, the animation doesn't count as an actual taunt and you can do anything to stop it at any point during. Probably gonna test it tonight to confirm once I finish my homework...
EDIT: Confirmed. The hat-adjusting animation can be canceled at any time. While this doesn't make you wrong in saying that the link is tight, it can be interrupted, so you're not vulnerable while Terry does that.
Anyway, on another note, watching the STA ranbats got me thinking about Terry's positioning on a team again. I've been running him second (Joe/K', Terry, Claw Iori), but all the talk about his spot on the team got me thinking again. Personally, I've done best with him in second because he makes solid use of a 4-meter cap, and can do well using only 1 meter at a time if necessary. I know team formation can be pretty flexible, but I feel like I have other characters who can make better use of a 5-meter cap (namely, Iori and Kim). I'm probably overthinking this, but I'd like to hear some opinions on this.
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I'm not sure if they covered this in the Master Class Terry video, but this was something I was working on.
So if Terry does a d.B, st.B into D crackshoot and it hits twice, as long as the person does not attempt a 1F command grab or an move that's invincible on start up, Terry will hit them with a st.C. When you do d.B, st.B into B crackshoot, if the opponent times a 3 frame move, he can trade with your st.C. So what this tells me is that when he hits standing opponents, he's +1 frames and probably +2 with D crackshoot. However, Terry adjusts his hat every time he does crackshoot. This is also important to note because if you don't cancel that animation (which starts as he puts his feet on the ground after crackshoot) you won't be able to do anything till he's done which means the link is really tight.
I could have sworn you can cancel the hat adjustment animation at any point in time. As in, the animation doesn't count as an actual taunt and you can do anything to stop it at any point during. Probably gonna test it tonight to confirm once I finish my homework...
EDIT: Confirmed. The hat-adjusting animation can be canceled at any time. While this doesn't make you wrong in saying that the link is tight, it can be interrupted, so you're not vulnerable while Terry does that.
Anyway, on another note, watching the STA ranbats got me thinking about Terry's positioning on a team again. I've been running him second (Joe/K', Terry, Claw Iori), but all the talk about his spot on the team got me thinking again. Personally, I've done best with him in second because he makes solid use of a 4-meter cap, and can do well using only 1 meter at a time if necessary. I know team formation can be pretty flexible, but I feel like I have other characters who can make better use of a 5-meter cap (namely, Iori and Kim). I'm probably overthinking this, but I'd like to hear some opinions on this.
Honestly, I only put Terry first if I know the person I'm playing is a fireball character. Now that there are more neutral tools to be used and frametraps, he can build a lot more meter on block which makes him nice and useful to me. However, as a first place person, his C Powerwave is indispensable against fireball focused characters. It scores a knockdown and it goes through other fireballs. It's short range, but it lets you get in close where fireball characters hate you to be in. From the knockdown, if they tech roll, you could safe jump from that distance to make them freak out.
Other than that, he's a good second. I'm not sure how he is on third, but Terry's HD combo potential midscreen can eat meter and end games. He's no joke with an HD combo. Other than an HD, Terry's a more 1 stock, 1 drive guy. Everything else after that is fluff or irrelevant/over-exaggerated damage.
Also, new stuff for Terry!
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So I've been practicing with Metaphysics and he showed me a few things with A burn knuckle that's very good and useful. I've been using it in matches. If you space Terry's A burn knuckle just right, you end up making it completely safe. If someone tries to punish you for it, you can block or completely reversal them with a C Rising Tackle.
The best blockstring I can show you to get you in the perfect position is d.B, d.A, d.C, qcf+A -wait- => Burn Knuckle. If all of the previous stuff was blocked, you're at the perfect distance to do a burn knuckle.
Now, how do you beat this? Even if you GCAB, the animation'll end once Terry hits so he's safe even through a guard roll. GCCD is a waste of meter. You could do an invincible move if you timed it right, but what's the best option here?
Moving forward stops this strategy cold. If you know someone is going to go for this set-up or naked Burn Knuckles at the right distance, you walk forward and block. This makes Burn Knuckle unsafe and allows you to punish him with anything.
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what about the spacing in this string makes the burn knuckle safe? Does he end up too far away from them on block for grabs to get him? Have you guys tested it vs various grab DMs that have big range? I guess to be fair, it doesn't really matter, if you can just walk forward a bit and block to make it unsafe again...
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what about the spacing in this string makes the burn knuckle safe? Does he end up too far away from them on block for grabs to get him? Have you guys tested it vs various grab DMs that have big range? I guess to be fair, it doesn't really matter, if you can just walk forward a bit and block to make it unsafe again...
Lemme use Daimon as an example.
His hcb,f+P grab is one frame. If I space Burn Knuckle properly, even if he has perfect execution, I can do a rising tackle and hit him before he can do it. The key is how light burn knuckle works.
Usually, when something hits, they go into recovery and that's that. The animation ends or changes when you hit something or someone. That's not the case with Terry's Burn Knuckle. Burn Knuckle is predetermined. That means the distance it travels, the length of its active frames, and the length of the recovery frames are all constant. That being said, if you hit someone with the last possible active frames of Burn Knuckle, there's practically no recovery frames while putting someone in the same amount of frames of blockstun you cause at any point you could have hit them.
In short, the farther away you hit them, the more safe the move becomes. At the perfect distance, they're still in blockstun longer than you are in recovery which makes it safe.
The issue is that you have to be aware I'm doing it and constantly be in my face. At any time, I can do something else that's completely different that your walking forward could be vulnerable to. You don't always have to do it. It's just like you don't always have to do D crackshoot in a blockstring. Having that option is the important part. You can also solve the problem by walking back and doing it. They might screw up and get hit by Burn Knuckle anyway.
Like I said before, it's something to consider as a legitimate tool. Use it how you like.
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yeah, i understand. I didn't realize that burn knuckle had properties like that. It makes sense.
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Does anyone know the frame data for Terry's rising tackles? I want to know his fastest move for those tough punishes.
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Does anyone know the frame data for Terry's rising tackles? I want to know his fastest move for those tough punishes.
cr. B(4), c. B(4), df+C(4), EX Rising Tackle(4), [W] Rising Tackle(5)
EX Power Geyser(11), W/S or EX Buster Wolf(11)
Pretty sure strong is 5 frames, but I dunno, could be more.
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So, is Terry's ;c version of his Power Wave basically a Round Wave?
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Not exactly sure what you mean, but it can go through fireballs as well as neutralize fireballs. It's a very useful tool when you want to crack someone open and not spend the meter for an EX power wave.
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Round Wave from like 2k2 and such. And I guess so.
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A video of Terry's Trinity Geyser doing 4 hits
KoF 13 Terry Bogard 100% 4 Hit Trinity Geyser Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeT7K3ggmVk#ws)
EDIT: Another Trinity Geyser video
Trinity Geyser doesn't suck? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OonRKk9yJlE#ws)
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Yea, at a specific spacing, it hits 4 times. If you do d.B, d.A, d.BC, qcf+C, qcf+AC (HD Cancel) near the corner you'll HD cancel into his neomax and do the 4 hits.
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Yea, at a specific spacing, it hits 4 times. If you do d.B, d.A, d.BC, qcf+C, qcf+AC (HD Cancel) near the corner you'll HD cancel into his neomax and do the 4 hits.
I do believe a bit of wiki-editing is in order.
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It's still pretty experimental though. What I'd like to do before adding that in is get the exact spacing or area where you can do it and what HD chain you can use to get it to work.
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EDIT: Another Trinity Geyser video
Trinity Geyser doesn't suck? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OonRKk9yJlE#ws)
I feel kind of honored that my video made it on here. lol
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Reiki, I added more sections to Terry's wiki, so if you want, there's more things you could add to it. Added a Pros and Cons section as well as a Strategy section.
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EDIT: Another Trinity Geyser video
Trinity Geyser doesn't suck? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OonRKk9yJlE#ws)
I feel kind of honored that my video made it on here. lol
I didn't realize that was your video.
That, or I just forgot you were one of the members here :P
Sorry.
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I'll work on those extra sections tonight. Thank you guys.
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I didn't realize that was your video.
That, or I just forgot you were one of the members here :P
Sorry.
Lol no worries. As long as it gets out there and people can see it.
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So, I finally finished all the extra sections for Terry excluding the match up section. We can copy and paste information as we get it, but right now, I don't think -I- could honestly do that section justice by myself. Just not enough matchup experience against the whole cast to baseline it with Terry.
Look over the wiki and tell me what you guys think.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_%28XIII%29)
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If you want Reiki, I'll help you out. Terry went from being a temporary stopgap for me to arguably my best character. I can help you tweak it out.
EDIT: Honestly Reiki, after looking it over, it's great. Short of wanting to add more info about his normals and specials, and then Character Matchups of course (but those are do them over time deals), your writeup is really good. You definitely did Terry a lot of justice honestly.
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Look over the wiki and tell me what you guys think.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_%28XIII%29)
Damn, good job man.
Oh yeah, regarding the match-up section, yeah it will take some time and teamwork to fully fill up, but I don't think nothing is wrong with adding some info about punishing certain characters moves, along side more strategic information that will be provided later.
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Look over the wiki and tell me what you guys think.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_%28XIII%29)
Damn, good job man.
Oh yeah, regarding the match-up section, yeah it will take some time and teamwork to fully fill up, but I don't think nothing is wrong with adding some info about punishing certain characters moves, along side more strategic information that will be provided later.
Well, if that's all you'd like, I can do that easy.
If you want Reiki, I'll help you out. Terry went from being a temporary stopgap for me to arguably my best character. I can help you tweak it out.
EDIT: Honestly Reiki, after looking it over, it's great. Short of wanting to add more info about his normals and specials, and then Character Matchups of course (but those are do them over time deals), your writeup is really good. You definitely did Terry a lot of justice honestly.
When the frame data for Terry is out and accepted, I can write about his normals. I could right now, but there's a lot to write and a lot that's still in limbo. I know st.C, st.A, d.B, d.A, and st.B are all 4 frames start up. So they can punish a lot of stuff people throw out.
I can do a bit more on specials, but I think it's pretty simple. There's no hidden tech. Maybe including situations where you use the move would be good too.
EDIT: Did a little work on Terry's specials, but I don't want to touch his normals. If you guys want to add something I missed (specifically something on a specific subject you want to add to), let me know.
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To be honest, you don't really NEED frame data to talk about normals, as long as you understand what situations they are best used for (like st.A is good against hops, j.D is good for jump-ins and crossups), and the general ranges for them, it should be okay. Also, you can still know if they are safe on block or not, by setting the training mode guard section to 1-hit jump. Then you can set it to 'guard all' if you wanna check out how far it pushes you (and your opponent) away from each other for you can see how punishable it really is.
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Right, so I got started on the match ups. I just included something basic and baseline considering their options. Most characters DETAILED reversals or options would take days to talk about so I just tried to keep it simple. Add what you can or tell me what you think of what I wrote.
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Whoa man thats great. I like how you described Elisabeth as a 'tough cookie' because indeed she surely can be in the right hands. Your write up about Clark was really great and detailed. I approve.
Also, is it okay that you can edit the entries with the bullet in-front of the paragraph incase there need to be a different point made later? http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kyo_Kusanagi_%28XIII%29#Character_Matchups (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kyo_Kusanagi_%28XIII%29#Character_Matchups)
Again, great job.
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Added the bullet points and a few more. Hopefully I'll be done with the section soon.
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So there are a few changes in Climax that aren't really noted.
One I noticed was the return of Terry's D Crackshoot hitting people that are crouching. Not only that, it can be comboed out of if you hit someone with it.
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Just D crackshoot?
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That is interesting. Wonder if console's getting a patch because that would definitely improve Terry's game.
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I was talking to a friend about it and he said that its in console, but it whiffs on smaller people. I swear though, when I first got the game, I couldn't do it on ANYBODY who was crouching and now I can. So weird.
Guess it's not a change after all. ;-;
EDIT: Okay, so far I've tested the male cast and some of the female cast and it's a pretty interesting trend.
Ash, Saiki, Kula, Athena Leona, and most other females can cleanly duck it. Exceptions are: Vice, Mature, and Elizabeth (Too manly)
Characters like K', Maxima, Ralf, Goro, and most of the men can't.
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hey, im a little confused. is it still the exact same as in console or did they make it easier to combo out of on the ground in climax? i thought when hitting a grounded opponent it could only combo when hitting with the last part of his kick, with his leg angled downward. so hard! :(
is hitting an opponent with D crackshoot while crouching different from standing (console) ?
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hey, im a little confused. is it still the exact same as in console or did they make it easier to combo out of on the ground in climax? i thought when hitting a grounded opponent it could only combo when hitting with the last part of his kick, with his leg angled downward. so hard! :(
is hitting an opponent with D crackshoot while crouching different from standing (console) ?
Basically, if your opponent blocks D crackshoot crouching, you're at positive frames. If you use D crackshoot, it hits, and they're crouching, the last hit of D crackshoot hits instead. Some characters, that I listed, will whiff. However, if it does hit, you can hit st.C and it combos.
In arcade, it used to hit everybody. Now, certain characters can grow smaller when they crouch straight down and miss the hit entirely.
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Btw Reiki, all changes you find with Terry for Climax, please add them to the wiki when you have time.
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Just curious. Does anyone know how fast buster wolf starts up? It's able to punish a lot of things.
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I think only ex Buster Wolf punishes stuff since it goes through projectiles.
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Level 1 can punish Andy's db-f.p and Athena's f.b. So I'm pretty sure if you're quick enough you can punish those pesky moves made safe by spacing.
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Level 1 can punish Andy's db-f.p and Athena's f.b. So I'm pretty sure if you're quick enough you can punish those pesky moves made safe by spacing.
That is actually good to know. I can punish Zaineken with something other than sweep. That also means you could punish things like Chin's backfist after his rolling punch. Maybe even dealing with Ralf's b~f+P moves that end up too far away.
So just wanted to post this up:
KOFXIII Tips & Tricks Volume IV - Corner crossups (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TePo-epAmJc#ws)
Why is this relevant? Well, been playing with Terry and noticed that if you cross someone under and hit them with a d.B at the right time, they're stuck in backturned. You could potentially carry them all the way to the corner with a basic bread and butter. You can actually do Buster Wolf and it does not change people around. They'll get up backturned. You could do this really funky corner cross up on peeps off of punishing people for jumping too high. If they're not paying attention to them getting up backturned, they'll get hit by your cross up.
So, say you had 4 meter full drive. You punish them with a combo ending in EX Buster Wolf. They get knocked down and you hop over them for that corner cross up and score it. On the way back, you end this one in EX Power Geyser.
461 + 541 = 1002 dmg for one mistake. That's brutal.
With less meter, less dangerous, but still that's pretty dirty.
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Except for one problem Reiki, which Dandy brought up in the vid.
If the opponent techs, they're no longer backturned and thus can't be crossed up.
Both Buster Wolfs can be teched, and it's highly unlikely the opponent WON'T tech, so idk how helpful that would be. Now, if you cross them up and end with EX Crackshoot instead in the corner, that's a Hard KD and you can do your work, but the damage won't be as high.
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Except for one problem Reiki, which Dandy brought up in the vid.
If the opponent techs, they're no longer backturned and thus can't be crossed up.
Both Buster Wolfs can be teched, and it's highly unlikely the opponent WON'T tech, so idk how helpful that would be. Now, if you cross them up and end with EX Crackshoot instead in the corner, that's a Hard KD and you can do your work, but the damage won't be as high.
You'd be surprised! You can try for it atleast. I for one don't tech very often and I don't know many people that mash it out every time they get knocked down.
What you said does work though, since you can combo a juggled opponent from Crackshoot into EX Crackshoot. Then you hop over them for the damage. It's a little less, but still REALLY powerful. That's 325 + 541 = 866 for 3 bars.
That's still really good for Terry and makes good use of EX crackshoot.
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Yeah, and I HAVE been looking for a better reason to actually use the Crackshoot to EX Crackshoot combo. Guess now I have one.
Now if I can actually find people to play...
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Something reminded me of what Sparkster wrote about what you can do to people if they tech.
Here's food for thought. If your opponent knows to tech when they get backturned, they'll tech, but you recover very fast from EX Buster Wolf. If they tech, you can grab them the second they stand up. You can also mix that up with a low if they think you're going to grab them.
Sounds pretty hot to me.
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Well that's what we have scouting for. That first match, see if the opponent likes to tech. If yes, enjoy the free Low/Grab mixups. If no, enjoy the free Corner Crossup.
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Double post, but needed. Reiki, we're gonna need to analyze Mr.KOF's Runback matches with Terry.
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Is he playing Terry right now?
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He was on stream playing Terry like...3 hours ago.
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He was on stream playing Terry like...3 hours ago.
Was there something you saw that was interesting? Maybe describe it?
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Nothing terribly interesting, just extremely solid Terry play...well that and random frame traps into Rising Tackle.
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So is B Crackshoot safe on block and he can't get grabbed or what? Because if I do it online I always get grabbed (regular grab even) I'm thinking of mixing it up with Terry on 1st.
Is his Downfoward C a good AA? It looks like it.
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So is B Crackshoot safe on block and he can't get grabbed or what? Because if I do it online I always get grabbed (regular grab even) I'm thinking of mixing it up with Terry on 1st.
Is his Downfoward C a good AA? It looks like it.
Is it safe? Sure. As for not getting grabbed? No, Terry's free to grabs with B Crackshoot (Command Grabs anyway, obviously he can tech normal ones). D Crackshoot can't be grabbed if blocked low (and you know...Terry gets out of dodge preparing for it).
Long story short though, if you're facing a Grappler, avoid using Crackshoot if at all possible unless you scout a GCR or you can predict an anti-air.
And 3C is a solid enough anti-air.
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Generally, you can go at it with command grapplers and throw them a bone. You can test their reactions by doing D crackshoot and jumping/back dashing immediately. If they don't do it in the first frame that they're able, you'll jump and get away with punishing them.
D Crackshoot is -1 on block if they block standing. That's still a frame or so safer than B crackshoot.
What makes B crackshoot useful is that it has a smaller fixed range. This makes it so certain setups allow you to space crackshoot so it's safer. You can use it to pressure opponents like Daimon outside of their range and still be close enough to do far st.C or D.
There are certain ways to do it, but the best way is to do B at its max range and cancel into crackshoot or d.B x2, st.B, andB crackshoot.
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So is B Crackshoot safe on block and he can't get grabbed or what? Because if I do it online I always get grabbed (regular grab even) I'm thinking of mixing it up with Terry on 1st.
Is his Downfoward C a good AA? It looks like it.
Regarding B Crack shoot he can utilize certain spacings to where he can't get grabbed after it at all. If Terry were to do a string like Cr.BAC-A Power Wave, B crack shoot, he's put at this really good spacing. He's right around max range of St.B. So he can pester his opponent but he is generally out of command grab range(I don't even think Clark's EX grab can catch him in this spot)
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A lot of places are lifting f+A as canceallable, especially in a bunch of his BnBs. This is incorrect right?
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A lot of places are lifting f+A as canceallable, especially in a bunch of his BnBs. This is incorrect right?
Yeah, it's wrong, unless it's in HD Mode where everything is cancellable.
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hey guys I cant connect buster wolf into EX power geyser, sometimes it hits but mostly misses, not sure on the timing.
Working on this combo and it hits a few times for 800Dmg, without the EXpower geyser its 695
;c, ;df+ ;c, ;b ;c, ;c, ;df+ ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk+ ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk+ ;b, ;dn ;up ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk+ ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk+ ;d, ;dn ;up+ ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk+ ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk+ ;a ;c, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;b ;d(buster wolf), ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;a ;c(EXpower geyser)
The last part is where I have the most trouble its a decent combo but im trying to milk for the most i can. How can connect the buster wolf into EX power guyser it misses when i try and very few times connects, Thanks
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i think the last hit of buster wolf whiffed, giving anywhere juggle property. i thought that only applied with EX version?
i think there are more practical corner HDs that also do a bit more damage. crimson king posted a 3 stock corner juggle HD using 1 EX knuckle / EX geyser for 839/743 dmg. you can also do other variations like 3 EX knuckle or 2 EX knuckle / 1 EX tackle for roughly the same damage.
for 4 bars corner HD you can get 919 / 843 using 3 EX knuckle / 1 EX tackle
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Thanks, yeah still working on it, i'll look into the other one's. This one isnt as damaging but it is the easiest to pull off in a heated game :). Maybe Buster wolf has to hit dead on mid body or when he's above me.
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Maybe reverse the EX Power Geyser and Ex Buster Wolf? I'd think with that the second hit of Geyser will whiff allowing you to follow it up with the wolf?
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Hi, I've been experimenting with Terry for a while
what do you guys think about this :
combo into ;a Burn Knuckle, cancel to ;b Crack Shot, then st. ;a to EX Power Wave
if it's done from mid screen, opponent have to block EX Power Wave, or they will got hit
any thought?
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Hi, I've been experimenting with Terry for a while
what do you guys think about this :
combo into ;a Burn Knuckle, cancel to ;b Crack Shot, then st. ;a to EX Power Wave
if it's done from mid screen, opponent have to block EX Power Wave, or they will got hit
any thought?
I don't think it's worth it. It's a nice little trap, but the only thing you'd get is a cross up situation that might be a full combo. That's if they don't just block or GC roll out of it. You also can do st.B with this as well and come out with the same effect. You might want to consider doing something that is relatively safe and gains some meter.
I might suggest doing crackshoot again to gain stock meter? You can delay it or do the D version after a st.B and just fly right to them, even if they tech. You can do the B version and still be relatively safe before you fall down. What I like to do when I have no meter is to either st.C for the reset OR do st.B into A fireball. If timed properly, it pins them down just like you're trying to do albeit not as long.
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I don't think it's worth it. It's a nice little trap, but the only thing you'd get is a cross up situation that might be a full combo. That's if they don't just block or GC roll out of it. You also can do st.B with this as well and come out with the same effect. You might want to consider doing something that is relatively safe and gains some meter.
I might suggest doing crackshoot again to gain stock meter? You can delay it or do the D version after a st.B and just fly right to them, even if they tech. You can do the B version and still be relatively safe before you fall down. What I like to do when I have no meter is to either st.C for the reset OR do st.B into A fireball. If timed properly, it pins them down just like you're trying to do albeit not as long.
Thank you for your suggestion! Yeah, i have tried st ;b into EX power wave, same result
I think if opponent is forced to block EX power wave, Terry can keep pressure going since they have to guess between cross up, hop ;d, empty jump cr ;b and it's also good for guard crush too!
even if they GC or Roll away, they have to spend 1 meter, and we can bait them to do it and punish
Too bad this setup is range specific :(
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St.B is easier. You can do that st.B into EX Powerwave anywhere as long as you time it right. It allows you to keep the pressure up, yes, but you have other options if you have meter.
You could use that meter to do EX Crackshoot instead of st.B, EX Powerwave. They're gonna get pinned down and you can setup for hard knockdown shenanigans (Meaty rolls, cross ups, fake cross ups). You could use that meter and do buster wolf as well. You're dealing damage, but you recover faster. See although Terry has soft knockdowns, teching the SKD is a bad idea.
When you tech a knockdown, you forfeit all through invulnerability. They second they get out of the roll, they're vulnerable. This is the perfect time to just walk in on somebody. You can literally hold forward after someone's been hit with Buster Wolf and walk up to them. If they tech, you can run in and go for a throw. If they don't tech, you can do everything you could have done if you hit them with EX Crackshoot.
Using EX Powerwave would be the more ideal approach if you did it in the corner or closer to the corner. They wouldn't be knocked farther away from you, they could only GCAB one way, and you're still in a position of power. That's the point here. You are doing this so you aren't losing control, right? So use your tool in the best position, when they're cornered and they want to get out.
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i dont think its worth it either. that meter and drive should just go toward a standard 1bar/1drive combo, or save it up till you can do an HD.
i agree with reiki that if youre gonna use EX wave, it should be when your opponents locked in the corner, preferrably when they are nearly KOed and you have the meter to blow.
i can tell you really want to use that st.A setup though. ;)
i think a good use for it is off of terrys various neomax HDs. if the opponents still alive, follow up the neomax with A knuckle > B crackshoot > st.A and continue youre corner pressure. i go for it instead of C tackle, depending on the combo, when the neomax follow up will have higher dmg scaling.
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EX wave ain't a bad option just outside of j.cd range. A lot of people get caught by that, trying to punish the startup.
EX crackshoot sets up really dirty ambiguous rolls. Terry's xup isn't exactly the scariest, so whenever I land one I go for a roll mixup most of the time.
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The spacing and stuff could really make it good for us all to know. I know I've rarely gotten it off so I never try. Can't be scared to do it though.
Can anyone help with an idea I have? We could get an image file and use MS paint to modify the picture, kind of show the distance you have to be when you should roll on somebody. That'd be a good start so we could get everybody using this tool more.
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The spacing for the roll is a little weird and hard to detail since the whole thing happens so fast, but since the ex crackshoot moves terry forward, you will almost always have to take a step back in order to make the roll ambiguous. So you land the cracksoot, take a quick step back, then roll. If you want to actually cross them up, then you might want to delay the roll a bit so you don't give it away (when you cross them up terry will turn around), the only problem is that your attack might not be as meaty, if at all.
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You can always do the back and forth to mess with the spacing.
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This is wayyyy to gimmicky terry already whas many safe jumps, cross ups, baits, and meatie after an ex crackshoot. a roll set up sounds like more or a risk than an asset at this point. With ex crackshoot there is not really a constant distance you will be placed at.you So can't really make a SINGLE roll setup because the distance isn't consistant.
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Eh, idk about "too" gimmicky. Sure it's a gimmick and not something you should look for in every match, but for a basic character like terry it's a nice addition to what he has.
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No it's not. having a roll setup is only good for characters with good options after that roll. Terry's options are better without the roll rather than with it and as prevously stated it's not worth the risk at all. first of all its a a hard knock down meaning Terry is right next to a downed opponent and has to wait until they are about to rise to even make this work. and all the time he is wasting could be uses for safe jumps, mix ups, and meaties.
2. Terry's jump angle after a delayed roll doesn't let him do anything special. doesn't have a good cross back over like beni no command grab to set up if you guess the wrong side like clark or shen he has nothing to make this worth while. Your options are baiting a reversal or well applying wake pressure, but these are all things that could have been done without the roll and done more effectivly.
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No it's not. having a roll setup is only good for characters with good options after that roll. Terry's options are better without the roll rather than with it and as prevously stated it's not worth the risk at all. first of all its a a hard knock down meaning Terry is right next to a downed opponent and has to wait until they are about to rise to even make this work. and all the time he is wasting could be uses for safe jumps, mix ups, and meaties.
2. Terry's jump angle after a delayed roll doesn't let him do anything special. doesn't have a good cross back over like beni no command grab to set up if you guess the wrong side like clark or shen he has nothing to make this worth while. Your options are baiting a reversal or well applying wake pressure, but these are all things that could have been done without the roll and done more effectivly.
Ambiguity of which side your opponent is on after a roll makes it difficult to block the right way. If timed correctly, you even stuff grab attempts. With d.B, d.A, d.C, you have a pretty easy to confirm combo if they block wrong. If they block right, you'd get the same type of pressure you would if they'd blocked the cross up.
You're saying your options are better, but you're ignoring your own options weaknesses that share the same problems. For you to cross up ambiguously, you'd have to step back. Terry has a hard, if not infuriatingly difficult time faking a cross-up. So you're left with an easy to see frontal jump in our a slightly harder to read front cross up. There is a possibility to cross up hit someone and land in front of them, but that's just as difficult. If you're going to safe jump in front of someone, and they block, that's no different than the roll set up.
Meaties work when someone's not blocking. On a knockdown, if someone is doing a meaty, most people have an invincible reversal which beat meaties. The fact you have to telegraph you're doing a meaty that's not a 4F move like d.B or d.A means that's dangerous. If they do reversal, you just got hit and in Mr. Karate's case, got hit with a 400+ point dmg combo. If they block, you're back to square one just like the roll set up.
If you're trying to mix up...Well, what mixup? Terry doesn't have high-low mix ups that don't cost meter and the only move is EX crackshoot. So why even mention it unless you HAVE a mixup setup after crackshoot. Also like to mention that the ambiguous roll IS a mixup because you can go low from either side of someone.
So although I respect your opinion, I'm curious why these superior options are so superior.
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You say
it's not worth the risk at all
yet I fail to see how an ambiguous roll has any more risk than just blocking. Just as well, you say you lose the opportunity to meaty, but as long as you roll early enough you still have time to meaty them with cr.;b. I'm not trying to say it's a gdlk mixup, I'm just saying it's not a bad option to go for when you land EX crackshoot.
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1. meaties are used to grant frame advantage and scuff wake up mashing. a meaty crackshoot grants frame advantage on block and hit. You can combo into st c on ANYONE off a meaty crackshoot and if they block it you can begin your offense with some frame advantage. if you do it to hit as soon as the opponent stands. it only loses to invinc moves and even still some moves it scuffs depending on when the invinc frames start or stop. but in addition ex power wave is a good meaty to lock someone down and also bait a blowback out of an opponent.
2. you just made your roll set up seem even more useless first terry's main option is a crb? that leads to very very minimal damage. also an opponent like benimaru can easily hit you without needing to guess because his bio dome super and ex fireball super have the same input on opposite directions and have invinc. or people can mash dp in a way that it auto corrects
3. you said it yourself terry has no overhead without meter. sooooo what is the real threat here? a very weak 50/50 also if you want to be ambigious you cant preform it meaty meaning you actually arent safe while attempting this at all sooo if they just mash dp or a command grab on wake up you can easily eat a dp
maybe if terry had a safer more damaging option or multiple good options maybe but having crb aka a low damage 50/50 isnt worth it
p.s. terry can cross people up and be very ambigious about it
using jump b c or d.
without rolling terry has many more options that are safer and better damage output wise.
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1. meaties are used to grant frame advantage and scuff wake up mashing. a meaty crackshoot grants frame advantage on block and hit. You can combo into st c on ANYONE off a meaty crackshoot and if they block it you can begin your offense with some frame advantage. if you do it to hit as soon as the opponent stands. it only loses to invinc moves and even still some moves it scuffs depending on when the invinc frames start or stop. but in addition ex power wave is a good meaty to lock someone down and also bait a blowback out of an opponent.
I don't think that's answering my question with how that's superior to an ambiguous roll. Meaty means you have to pre-emptively do the move which signals to someone with fast enough reaction to do something invincible. For it to be threatening, it'd really have to be a low or something cancellable into a special. Don't think this argument has changed much. Roll is still on equal footing with meaty if not greater because they don't know which side to block.
2. you just made your roll set up seem even more useless first terry's main option is a crb? that leads to very very minimal damage. also an opponent like benimaru can easily hit you without needing to guess because his bio dome super and ex fireball super have the same input on opposite directions and have invinc. or people can mash dp in a way that it auto corrects
That's Benimaru and that's a gimmick that only works if he has 2 meter. 2 meter to blow up a tactic like that without guessing. That's a serious waste based on just one character, not everybody in the game. Also keep in mind you could do nothing but block and these options become punishable. I would like to know how someone could autocorrect a DP motion, that'd be useful. Characters like Terry, Kim, and Leona should be taken into account, but even so, that's obvious.
3. you said it yourself terry has no overhead without meter. sooooo what is the real threat here? a very weak 50/50 also if you want to be ambigious you cant preform it meaty meaning you actually arent safe while attempting this at all sooo if they just mash dp or a command grab on wake up you can easily eat a dp
maybe if terry had a safer more damaging option or multiple good options maybe but having crb aka a low damage 50/50 isnt worth it
p.s. terry can cross people up and be very ambigious about it
using jump b c or d.
without rolling terry has many more options that are safer and better damage output wise.
You're ignoring a fact about attacking with a cross up. They have to guess (unless it's obvious) that the person is going to hit them on the other side. With Terry, especially if you've played Terry a few times, it can get obvious when you're trying to cross someone up. Not only that, an opponent aware of tendencies and spacings will know when you're trying to cross up. With this, they have to block the other side, but they also have to crouch to do so. If they crouch, they are incapable of teching throws as well. There are exceptions, but I don't think anyone can mash out DP and hope it's going to hit someone that might be on the wrong side. I'm pretty sure the game doesn't autocorrect notations either. It might take the notation and do the move anyway, but you'll be doing the move in the wrong direction regardless. My point is pretty simple. It's a valid option and you shouldn't put it down just because you don't like it.
P.S.: cr.B, cr.A, cr.C is a link remember? That's plenty of damage and does more for you than st.C into df.C since it's easy to do supers off it.
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Yeah, mentioning one char's 2 meter dp os as a fault against an ambiguous roll, and then saying a meaty crackshoot is a better oki option doesn't really gel. Meaty crackshoot probably isn't a good option period, since there's no mixup involved, just one of the more telegraphed moves in the game waiting to get dp'ed...
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Ummmm I'm willing to bet money you've been hit by meaties even when your character has a dp. A dp isn't an ALMIGHTY TOOL. Speed of the dp, amount of invinc frames,
There are pleanty of characters without dps who meaty crackshoot works great on and on some characters who do have dp don't have invinc on their dps... soooo yeah there are pleaty of great match ups to use that in...
meaty crackshoot neutralize wayyyy more options than this roll mix up
A roll mix up like this that is so limited you can easily get auto correct command grab, dp, supered, hell you can just eat a move that has lower body invinc.
Meaty crackshoot: only moves with invinc on start up.
it can't get command grabbed it can't
can't get hit by most specials, and they can't use any normals because it's a meaty and they eat the move and if they block it. guess what? frame advantage on block.
Your issue seems to be you respect dps to much. just because your opponent's character has a dp doesnt mean they know how to use it or brave enough to use it. how to you think people eat meaty overheads? Ryo, Kyo, Iori, kim, and a few more get pleaty of mileage out of meaties.
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Also i'd rather eat a dp going for larger damage than going for lesser damage. also not rolling... also i repeat i have more options not rolling!
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Fucking... wow.
My Terry Bogard 100% combo (the quickest in the game?) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAyTKvVtzWg#)
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Fucking... wow.
My Terry Bogard 100% combo (the quickest in the game?) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAyTKvVtzWg#)
This would actually be one of the quickest of the game. Quick nonetheless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7FQGd_Q2E&feature=player_detailpage#t=73s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7FQGd_Q2E&feature=player_detailpage#t=73s)
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Fucking... wow.
My Terry Bogard 100% combo (the quickest in the game?) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAyTKvVtzWg#)
This would actually be one of the quickest of the game. Quick nonetheless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7FQGd_Q2E&feature=player_detailpage#t=73s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7FQGd_Q2E&feature=player_detailpage#t=73s)
A bit off-topic but, if looking for the fastest 100% combos, here there are some candidates:
KOF XIII Combo Exhibition -Chapter one- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhqNYUSgyyE#ws) Shen at 3.37
KOF XIII Combo Exhibition -Chapter two- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6X1tCIURh8#ws) Kensou at 0.55
KOF XIII Combo Exhibition -Chapter three- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT9J1TOclNI#ws) Ralf at 1.56 and Raiden at 2.11
...just to add some sauce to it ;)
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Just about every combo posted after the vid I posted is situational (and by that, I mean that they require something else besides the necessary meter and drive). I think Terry's is still the fastest non-situational combo in the game.
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yeah, terrys EX geyser > Neomax combos are pretty simple to do, really short, hit hard, and has one to do in any situation. maybe not every situation when it comes to 100% dmg though.
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EX Burning Knuckle does disgusting damage... it really is worth the bar
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It's good at catching people when they jump. I am pretty good at punishing people for jumping from across the screen with it, but I don't know what to do afterwards. There's nothing "free" without spending more meter.
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Crackshoot normally follows up and ex burnknuckle And if you get a crackshoot then do a rising tackle
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Look at this Terry counter hit combo video:
KOF XIII - Terry .. Counter Hit Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCgZdyMnkZg#ws)
...Not too sure I'd even get a chance to use this in an actual match.
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It's pretty specific. You have to hit them with j.CD when they're higher than you. Then dash and special cancel it into burn knuckle.
From the looks of it, you follow it up with D Crackshoot and do the rest of the combo. You could do it, but maybe that means you would have to fish for it all the time.
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^That's gonna be hard to do, isn't it? From what I've heard, Terry has one of the worst j.CDs in the game.
Looking at the video, do you think the guy could've used his meter better?
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Here's how I see it.
If you get it, great! You'll probably win if the other person is trying to do a CD and they're slower on the draw then you. Otherwise, even if you trade, a counter hit df+C is probably better in terms of reliability.
Why? If you trade, and it's counterhit, you can combo into any version of buster wolf for 1 meter. An easy 25% damage for a trade. If you trade with an air CD, you get nothing.
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terrys j.CD isnt bad... well maybe compared to takuma / karate. i like to use it for neutral hops / jumps.
i dont have these incorporated in my game myself, but his most reliable and practical counterhit j.CD combos would be:
j.CD > D crackshoot > EX Tackle
j.CD > D crackshoot > EX Geyser
this works for df.C too, but as far as i know df.C always trades in any real counterhit situation...
around ~30-40+% for both. on a non counterhit terry will carry them further to the corner, land right next them and i think recovers before the opponent. on any j.CD that hits it might be safe to follow up D crackshoot without losing pressure, i havent messed with it enough myself or tried in matches. im very bad at reacting to my j.CDs...
even if you trade, a counter hit df+C is probably better in terms of reliability.
Why? If you trade, and it's counterhit, you can combo into any version of buster wolf for 1 meter. An easy 25% damage for a trade. If you trade with an air CD, you get nothing.
wow, very cool! :) i never knew that was an option. i get traded counterhit df.C so much...
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The way I see it. You have enough time to do df+C, do qcb+ any button really, and still have enough time to do qcfx2+K before they fall to the ground. Just, everytime you do df+C, buffer in the qcb+P or qcb+K to be prepared if you counter cleanly.
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I saw on the kyo thread that he can reset into meaty upkicks to make them positive on block. Is there a similar setup for crackshoot?
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Technically, but it's not as good.
See, you can time crackshoot on someone's wake-up after an air reset and it makes it really hard for them to poke you out of it.
You do your usually bnb combo, midscreen. j.D, st.D, qcb+A, (DC) qcb+B...Instead of finishing it with EX Rising Tackle or Buster Wolf midscreen, you do a delayed st.B. This air resets the opponent. You immediately cancel into D Crackshoot.
You're basically giving them the last frame to work with of the move. It's safe on block. It's not positive unless they block low, and the same thing happens as with Kyo. If someone dps through it, you get hit.
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^That's gonna be hard to do, isn't it? From what I've heard, Terry has one of the worst j.CDs in the game.
Looking at the video, do you think the guy could've used his meter better?
Terry's hop cd isn't bad it's actually really good against people with higher jump arcs than you. It's also great if you want to jump or hop back you can use it since it's active so sling and comes out reasonably fast. Jumping forward not the. Greats but a2a, neutral jumps, and back jumping/hopping it works great!
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Video of Terry combos beginning with light Crack Shoot
KOF XIII - Terry Bogard ( Combo 12 ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBW76f0mdQE#ws)
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That's pretty nice there. But after responding to it, wouldn't that be like a 1F, 2F link?
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Yeah its something like 2F link, but the real problem with this tech is Crackshoot not being an overhead.
I experimented with this a long time ago with high hopes, and in the end I couldnt really find practical situations where youll hit a crouching opponent with Crackshoot who isnt blocking. On a standing opponent theres no real combo opportunity outside of the corner, due to the spacing. If you hit an opponent with a raw Crackshoot who isnt blocking, chances are they are standing. Regardless, unless Terry is doing guessing games with Rising Tackle, he would be doing spaced Crackshoots anyway just in case they stand block.
I dont think it has any practical use as an HD starter outside of the corner, and even then... With the tight link, shit still seems too tough. Id admire anyone could incorporate this into their game.
Idk, maybe outside the corner you could do a spaced Crackshoot > cr.B > st.B > Buster Wolf? Sounds tough to confirm still though.
What do you guys think about Crackshoot combos as far as practicality goes?
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Pretty random occurences for me so I can't honestly say it's practical. You have to commit to an attack, which depending on the situation, could get stuffed or get reversaled. You also have a small window to respond. With a 2F link, you have to mentally prepare for the hit. So the situation where you throw crackshoot out expecting it to hit the way you want is pretty small.
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Pretty random occurences for me so I can't honestly say it's practical. You have to commit to an attack, which depending on the situation, could get stuffed or get reversaled. You also have a small window to respond. With a 2F link, you have to mentally prepare for the hit. So the situation where you throw crackshoot out expecting it to hit the way you want is pretty small.
You guys act like you can't bait counter pokes or punish fireballs with crack shoots.lol
Also not every character has to be crouching for this to work. It's character or more so height specific. I posted a list of characters each crack shoot works on back last June or July.
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King of Fighters XIII: Terry Bogard tips and tricks - By Ennohex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcrc4OFrBgg#ws)
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Cool video, I learned quite a bit. Thanks for sharing.
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So, was playing with Terry and was trying to apply some knowledge of hitstun for st.B.
It's usually a fairly strong pressure tool, but you can't net anything from it. Especially close up as the only thing you can connect into it is an EX special.
This actually isn't true.
Terry's st.B gives you about 4F+ advantage on hit due to hitstun. I don't know the EXACT frames, but yesterday, I could link df+C into st.B. Today, I did st.B point blank and did close st.C, which connected. Both of these normals are 4 frames. I wonder if it links into itself.
Anyway, TL;DR -> st.B into df+C or st.C is a link (Not a cancel, a link). It's probably a 1 or 2 frame link.
EDIT: It apparently doesn't link into itself so st.B into st.B doesn't work. That probably means that st.B is in fact slower than st.C which means it's slower than 4F :( Definitive proof st.B was nerfed from Arcade!
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According to :
http://keykakko.wordpress.com/2012/12/28/%E3%82%A6%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%81%AE%E5%BE%A9%E6%B4%BB%E3%82%92%E3%81%A3%EF%BC%81/ (http://keykakko.wordpress.com/2012/12/28/%E3%82%A6%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%81%AE%E5%BE%A9%E6%B4%BB%E3%82%92%E3%81%A3%EF%BC%81/)
Terry st.B starts in 6, and is +4 on hit ...
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According to :
http://keykakko.wordpress.com/2012/12/28/%E3%82%A6%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%81%AE%E5%BE%A9%E6%B4%BB%E3%82%92%E3%81%A3%EF%BC%81/ (http://keykakko.wordpress.com/2012/12/28/%E3%82%A6%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%81%AE%E5%BE%A9%E6%B4%BB%E3%82%92%E3%81%A3%EF%BC%81/)
Terry st.B starts in 6, and is +4 on hit ...
According to the mook from arcade, st.B was 4F. So I did not believe that it was 6F. That also says nothing about "on hit". That's advantage on guard and start up.
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I have to agree that the 2 frame difference in st.B is pretty significant, given Terry's options. I feel it's harder to punish some things with Terry where another character could use some 1-3 frame special including the 5 frame buffer. I think 4 frame st.B would make me a bit more confident to commit to a st.B punish into HD or super. I'm not the sharpest player when it comes to tight punishes though. I also only have my online experiences to go by. Tight punishes with normals are not very fun online, even with a good connection. =/
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New tech with Terry?
KOF XIII - Terry Lol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcTDzkMY4hY#)
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Hm...That's interesting. I was thinking of that actually earlier if you could do two crackshoots. But they'd need to be higher in the air and get hit with the tail end, like Kim's Hangetsuzan.
Good find though and special thanks to Zeroblack, but could we replicate it using drive cancels?
My thoughts are if you did the d~u+P [SC] EX Power Geyser in the corner, that might work.
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Here's something else regarding that:
KOF XIII - Terry Lol 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZQZLXyTDu8#ws)
EDIT: More videos similar to those.
KOF XIII - Terry Lol 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eDvViORvKo#ws)
KOF XIII - Terry Lol 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZWAMJXn2Io#ws)
KOF XIII - Terry Bogard ( Combo 14 ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUS3VPgugU0#ws)
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so I just went to look at the wiki frame data for terry since I got blown up today but a terry that kept doing crack shoot > cl.st.C and looping it over and over.....
is that shit really -1 on stand block and +2 on crouch block? Wtf ??
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so I just went to look at the wiki frame data for terry since I got blown up today but a terry that kept doing crack shoot > cl.st.C and looping it over and over.....
is that shit really -1 on stand block and +2 on crouch block? Wtf ??
If he is close enough to do close st.C, you should be able to tick throw him out of it. 1 frame command grab is the best option. Further away from that I would just try to poke with a 4-5 frame normal. I personally do not have enough experience being on the receiving end of this. I don't think I'm good enough to give proper advice on that. Maybe someone else can give some input. I think that B Crackshoot is -2 standing while D Crackshoot is -1.
I can say that who I'm used to playing would blow me up for this regardless of if they had a 1 frame CG. Terry can space his crackshoot to not be punishable in most situations, but he will be in range for far C to come out instead. I'm not sure if this works on Kyo's EX Orochinagi or the biggest range CGs. A spaced crackshoot will hit at a lower angle of the kick even when you stand block.
I think the only thing to watch out for aside from spacing, if you are tick throwing the crack shoot, I think Terry can do C Tackle to beat it? It's a bit of guessing game though that imo is not in Terry's favor. If he guesses wrong he will get blown up by a HD combo unless it's early on in the first round.
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so I just went to look at the wiki frame data for terry since I got blown up today but a terry that kept doing crack shoot > cl.st.C and looping it over and over.....
is that shit really -1 on stand block and +2 on crouch block? Wtf ??
Look you can force him to tech your throw if you. Stand block then mash throw. But if you are cr blocking the whole time that's your fault you are constantly giving him Frame advantage for free always I mean always be aware of what your opponent is doing as terry.
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KOF XIII : Terry Bogard best damages combos tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nWRFXJXaro#)
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Another combo by ZeroBlack:
KOF XIII - Terry Bogard ( Combo 17 ) Another Counter Hit Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxPCkj5pNWU#ws)
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Need a little help with Terry trial 9. Is there an easier way (shortcut) to cancel his Rising Tackle (L) into his Neo Max?
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Need a little help with Terry trial 9. Is there an easier way (shortcut) to cancel his Rising Tackle (L) into his Neo Max?
d~qcf to up A xx qcf AC
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Thanks
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Sooo, does anybody know how to use St.B effectively even? You can literally do tons of frametraps off of it. I only see the the mostly unfavorable crackshoot on crouching opponents. St.B to Cr.B is a 2F gap beats a lot of the good sweeps and even EX Iado Kick. Why does nobody do this!?
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My guess is that the payoff is more apparent with crack shoot. As long as you don't cancel into it, qcb.B gives you a 1f link into s.C. For those who aren't good with their links or plain don't know that though, the frame advantage is still very useable. It is however punishable, either with reversals or low profiling moves like d.Bs that can allow full punishes on predictable crack shoots.
I think i saw a tourney player do normal traps (other than s.B again) off of s.B. It's cool to see that there's still room to grow.
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Plus CrackShoot whiffs on some crouchers, mainly the shorter crouchers. St.B to Cr.B avoids that situation and you can get Cr.A to Cr.C chain afterwards. So there isn't really an incentive for one to do crackshoot unless the opponent has been conditioned to block low.