Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Andy Bogard => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:13:53 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/andy.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throw
Kakaekomi Nage - ;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d
Command Normals
Hirateuchi - ;fd + ;a
;b , ;d
This is Andy's chain combo.
Throws
Kakaekomi Nage - ;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d
Command Normals
Hirateuchi - ;fd + ;a
Special Moves
Shoryudan - ;dp + ;a / ;c *
Hishoken - ;qcb + ;a / ;c *
Kuuhaden - ;hcf + ;b / ;d *
∟ Brake - ;b ;d
Zaneiken - (charge) ;db, ;fd + ;a / ;c *
Desperation Moves
Choreppadan - ;qcb ;hcf + ;b / ;d *
Gekihishoken - ;dn ;df ;fd ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a / ;c
Neomax
ChoShinSoku Zaneiken - ;qcb ;hcf + ;a ;c (ground or air)
Andy's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Andy_Bogard_(XIII)).
Console changes:
* Normal/high jump D has better hitbox for use in crossups.
* Close C hits twice. The first hit has no knockback so his Hirate Uchi (forward + A) will combo without whiffing.
* B>D is a chain combo. Can be canceled.
* Chou Reppadan’s (qcb~hcf+K) damage has been increased from 162 to 198.
- EX Kuhadan’s invincibility (Ex hcf K) has been taken out.
* Chou Shin Soku Zan’eiken (qcb~hcf+AC) NeoMax comes out faster.
Producer Yamamoto says: We’ve focused on buffing him up around his cancelable chains, two hit C, and crossups. In particular, you no longer have to worry about his Hirate Uchi whiffing from close C. His Neomax is very fast so please check it out.
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Reserved
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Reserved
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Wow, still no posts on this thread about Andy? But he's buffed after being top 5 in Arcade. And he's a Ninja...NINJA!!!!!
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Even though Andy is my point I've been neglecting his combos, working on him now.
Got a very nice 1 bar 1 drive combo that works from about midscreen all the way up to the corner.
;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;db ;fd ;c DC ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d, ;db ;fd ;a + ;c, ;db ;fd ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c
455 for this one (470 if you start with ;d, ;fd ;a) which I think is pretty insane for 1 bar and 1 drive, but it is quite easy to miss the ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b if you mistime it.
Oh and another tip, if you want to throw out a Hail Mary Neomax always do it off the ground. If you Tiger Knee it (as close to the ground as possible) you will land directly in front of your opponent with a frame advantage. If you do it higher you'll go through them and they probably won't be able to punish you after that either.
Okay, combo list:
[0 Stock, 0 Drive]
;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;dn ;db ;bk ;a (181 dmg, 19 stun) Safest, outside of the corner = best postition for hyper jump crossup ;d on hit or block
;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;db ;fd ;c (198 dmg, 21 stun)
(Into corner) ;d, ;fd ;a xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d, ;db ;fd ;a, ;db ;fd ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (305 dmg, 41 stun)!!!
(Corner only) ;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;db ;fd ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (242 dmg, 29 stun)
(Stand only) ;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b (213 dmg, 25 stun) You need to be point blank for this
(Into corner, stand only) ;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (266 dmg, 33 stun) Need to time the DP quite well to get all 3 hits
;d, ;fd ;a xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;d (232 dmg, 29 stun)
(Into corner) ;d, ;fd ;a xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (263 dmg, 33 stun) Again you need to time the DP to get all 3 hits
(Opponent in corner) ;dn ;db ;bk ;a, ;db ;fd ;c (136 dmg, 14 stun) You need to be perfectly spaced about 2/3 of the screen away for this, directly under the word 'Guard' in 'Guard Gauge', if ;db ;fd ;c is blocked you're too close, if it whiffs, too far.
[1 Stock, 0 Drive]
;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b + ;d, ;dn ;d (stand 330 dmg, crouch 314 dmg, 20 stun)
;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;dn ;df ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;a (313 dmg, 13 stun) Opponent cannot tech roll
(Corner only) ;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;db ;fd ;a + ;c ;fd ;dn ;df ;c (356 dmg, 23 stun)
(Into corner) ;d, ;fd ;a xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d, ;db ;fd ;a + ;c, ;db ;fd ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c (416 dmg, 35 stun)
(Into corner) ;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c (339 dmg, 23 stun) Works from around midscreen
(Into corner, crouch only) ;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b, ;db ;fd ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (341 dmg, 29 stun) Same as the last combo, only works if opponent was crouching
(Into corner) ;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b + ;d, ;db ;fd ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (343 dmg, 29 stun) Don't have to be in the corner to start this one, but you do need to be closer to it than the last couple of combos
(Into corner) ;d, ;fd ;a xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d, ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c (358 dmg, 27 stun) You'll need to use the ;fd in the super motion to walk forward slightly or this will not work
;dn ;db ;bk ;a, ;db ;fd ;a + ;c (202 dmg, 6 stun) Works midscreen about 2/3 to 3/4 away from opponent, also functions as a true blockstring
(Opponent in corner) ;dn ;db ;bk ;a, ;db ;fd ;a + ;c, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c (314 dmg, 16 stun)
(Opponent in corner) ;dn ;db ;bk ;a, ;dn ;db ;bk ;a + ;c (174 dmg, 6 stun) Also functions as a true blockstring, I'm just putting this here because it works...
More still to come
Oh, and a combo video:
The King of Fighters XIII: Andy Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q988g54Z8g8#ws)
And the lethality of Andy putting you anywhere near the corner:
The King of Fighters XIII: Andy's Meter Gain = Pain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgv3V_lFPQk#ws)
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It is ok to do Zan'eiken as a half-circle forward? It seems more natural to me, just wondering if doing the input like that would mess up any more advanced combos he has.
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It is ok to do Zan'eiken as a half-circle forward? It seems more natural to me, just wondering if doing the input like that would mess up any more advanced combos he has.
You wouldn't be able to DC into a fireball, instead you'll end up with a super.
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It is ok to do Zan'eiken as a half-circle forward? It seems more natural to me, just wondering if doing the input like that would mess up any more advanced combos he has.
You wouldn't be able to DC into a fireball, instead you'll end up with a super.
This is true, but I also use hcf instead of the proper input for the elbow, and I've never really felt the need to use the fireball DC. Has it ever come up? The hcf input just feels far more natural for me as well.
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I was gonna say, why would that problem arise? I don't think I've ever seen the need to DC into his FB from Zan'ei Ken.
It's usually into Braked Spin Kicks or EX Zan'ei Ken.
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Yeah I can do it just fine the way it's supposed to be done. Just curious.
I agree with the above posters though, when would you ever do that into a fireball?
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Haven't finished my combo list yet unfortunately, you do need the right positioning for it so it's pretty situational but just outside the corner you can land a 2 stock 1 drive combo for 503 damage with the use of a DC fireball.
;dn ;b, ;b, ;d xx ;db ;fd ;a + ;c xx ;dn ;db ;bk ;a, ;db ;fd ;a + ;c, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c
Still exploring so it might not be the best, but it is something. I don't write anything off until it's all been tried and tested :P I may have demonstrated a 1 stock 1 drive combo for 514 damage on video, but 2 key points is that a jump-in is included for that one and also no low moves are used, which is a key element in landing a combo in the first place.
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What are his best/most practical midscreen and corner HD combos?
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I would say his most practical HD combo is any of his main BnB strings:
;dn ;b, ;b, ;d
;c, ;fd ;c
;d, ;fd ;a
HD from there and either go into:
;d, ;fd ;a
;c, ;fd ;a (less damage but a little easier)
Followed by:
;db ;fd ;c xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d xx ;db ;fd ;c xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d xx ;db ;fd ;c xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d xx ;db ;fd ;c xx ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b xx ;b + ;d xx ;db ;fd ;c, ;fd ;dn ;df ;c xx ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;a + ;c
5x Zan'eiken looped with 4x Kuuhaden break, followed by C DP into Neomax
This will net you damage in the range of 770-840 (off the top of my head) depending on what you start with. It works anywhere on the screen because you'll carry them all the way to the corner for the DP regardless of where you start. Only uses 2 stock as well, plus hit confirmation is extremely easy. Definitely one of Andy's most practical combos.
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Is Andy a good anchor? I'm a total noob to this game, but it seems like he can get some major damage and pressure with his EX moves.
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Is Andy a good anchor? I'm a total noob to this game, but it seems like he can get some major damage and pressure with his EX moves.
I think it depends on the rest of your characters. He can easily be a good anchor, but 5 stock seems a little overkill for him unless you intend to use a lot of EX fireballs. I use him on point personally.
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I've been messing around with Andy's far C. it's a really strong poke, but what most don't know is that you can start a full combo without activating HD mode with it. Far ;c, ;db ;fd ;c, ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b [brake] works anywhere. It's just about impossible to confirm unless you're punishing something, but ;db ;fd ;c is very difficult to punish, so vs most of the cast it's entirely safe to do on block.
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Is Andy a good anchor? I'm a total noob to this game, but it seems like he can get some major damage and pressure with his EX moves.
I think Andy works well in any position. If he's on point, he has great normals and meterless corner combos. As an anchor, he gets great HD combos and EX moves that help his poking/zoning game.
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Hiltzy asked in the arcade Andy thread which was locked if Andy's target combo, B,D could be cancelled without cr.B. Yes it can. Into any special you want. It's marvelous.
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i hate andy... really... dunno how to beat him.
today i met a guy whose team was: andy,kyo,iori
mine was billy,ralf,clark
with billy i ve a lot of problems to beat andy.. any suggestion?
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Well, can't say I play Andy, but that match up shouldn't be as difficult if you play the defensive game.
You want to run and gun, get in his face for some damage and get away. Aside from his fireball and his normals, most of his moves are ones you can punish. Use d.C to stop Andy's jump ins and make use of back dashing to make him mess up his spacing with normals. You want to stick to your poking game. j.CD, hcf+C, qcb+A, f+B, anything you can get your hands on to space and poke you should use. If he does get in your face and you can't get him off, don't be ashamed to use meter to blowback or guard cancel roll. You can punish him if you GC Roll (GCAB) on his st.C if you know he'll do his f+A. He won't be able to cancel anything afterwards so you can hurt him bad. That's not easy though so you'll have to know it's coming.
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Far ;c, ;db ;fd ;c, ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b [brake] works anywhere. It's just about impossible to confirm unless you're punishing something
Why would you need to confirm? You can't DC on block :P
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Far ;c, ;db ;fd ;c, ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b [brake] works anywhere. It's just about impossible to confirm unless you're punishing something
Why would you need to confirm? You can't DC on block :P
True but ;db ;fd ;c is punishable by some characters. It is pretty negative on block.
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Perhaps worth substituting for ;a then? (Granted that you're in range for it to hit)
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A version starts up quicker and deals way less damage, recovery is virtually the same. It's like -10f vs -12f on block. It's a powerful combo starter but only use it against characters without extremely fast punishers. For example I can use it all day against my friend's Mai or Billy, but if I did it against Mr. Karate I would be asking to eat his EXDM.
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Which combos with 800-1000 damage does Andy had?
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A version starts up quicker and deals way less damage, recovery is virtually the same. It's like -10f vs -12f on block. It's a powerful combo starter but only use it against characters without extremely fast punishers. For example I can use it all day against my friend's Mai or Billy, but if I did it against Mr. Karate I would be asking to eat his EXDM.
Is ;db ;fd ;a punishable? Supers are fast enough to punish? I've never been punished for it but no one I've played has tried with a DM.
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I'm sure that could be punished, with blockstrings the only safe move imo is QCB + p without using meters
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Can K` or Kula punish blocked zaneiken (A or C) with dp+C or EX dp? I feel like they're both really fast and have crazy range (Kula's dp+C hits from like just inside half screen)...
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I havent tested it but those moves arent fast at all. So I doubt it.
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Kula and K' can both punish ;db ;fd + ;a with a sweep or a 4 frame normal.
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It's far too much pushback to be punished by any 4f normals. Kula's s.B might be able to punish it, though the pushback might still be too much. If she runs up and does s.B it might connect, but it'll be hard. It's just -10. I know that many characters' ranbu DMs can punish it, or things like Shen's qcfx2+AC or XIII Kyo's qcb,hcf+AC. It's really mostly safe to use... just know in which matchups you can and can't get away with it.
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So yeah, testing againt iori EX dp, I so far seem to get the conclusion than any iteration of db, f + p sans the ex version is completely free against the move
DP also gets punished, I feel than qcb + p too but generates too much pushback to be punished
Neomax is free
The same was tested with iori standing C, only C version of db f + P could be punished with it
Now that I think about, I finally found some use to the turbo in my controller rather than using it to boost achievements in KOF XII or test you might in mk9 lololol
The most safe move in andy moveset is maybe his hishoken for the pushback and ex kuuha dan
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Is there are shortcut for dp dc hcf+k~bd?
Having some problems.
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you may be able to use f, hcf+P, then immediately hcf+K, brake. That seems to be how I do it, although I don't know if it is really a shortcut, per se. It may be possible for you to do the f, hcf+P for the DP and then immediately press K on hit to get the drive cancel, but I am not sure if that one works.
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Yes, that's the shortcut. That's how I do it, it's much much much easier than doing the inputs normally.
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Yes, that's the shortcut. That's how I do it, it's much much much easier than doing the inputs normally.
So which one do you use? f,hcf+P then K to get the DC or f,hcf+P, hcf+K?
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f,hcf+P, then K quickly. Adding in the hcf+K isn't really a shortcut at all. That's just more work than doing a proper DP and then the proper hcf+K input.
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good point...thanks. I've been doing it kind of halfway in the middle of doing the two distinct motions and doing the shortcut. It hasn't been very consistent. Time to go back to practice and do it the "right" way
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hey, guys i'm REALLY new to the whole KOF scene and i'm not sure if this is the right thread, but i was wondering how do you guys play with Andy? i feel like he can play both rush and zone since his elbow rush seems safe on block. i've been told to learn how to hop pressure in this game since it's a valuable tool to have, but i'm not sure what move to hop in with? is hopping really that useful? also do you guys super jump cross up a lot? since some of his bnbs set up the opponent for them i never get to land them though, mostly because my opponent is constantly in motion.
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hyperhop j.CD (jumping C+D) is really great, it has amazing priority and huge blockstun. During pressure that would be your jump-in of choice, but j.D is very good as well. His wiki page has a decent amount of info on it, it can be found here: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Andy_Bogard_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Andy_Bogard_%28XIII%29)
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since some of his bnbs set up the opponent for them i never get to land them though, mostly because my opponent is constantly in motion.
Yeah, his j.CD and j.D can be really annoy because of their hitbox positions. If you can manage to get them in the corner, you can throw out some low B's into his A version elbow (db~f+A) which is hard to punish for some characters on block, which can lead into some frametraps with his dp+C, or some staggers with his annoying cr.D. You can even use his db~f+A as second dash sometimes. But that's only a small amount of what he can do.
I wish his standing normals had a bit more range, sorta like is 02/UM versions with his st.A and his B.
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hyperhop j.CD (jumping C+D) is really great, it has amazing priority and huge blockstun. During pressure that would be your jump-in of choice, but j.D is very good as well. His wiki page has a decent amount of info on it, it can be found here: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Andy_Bogard_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Andy_Bogard_%28XIII%29)
thanks, man! i'm not near my xbox but when you and the wiki say j.cd i thought two kicks were for ex moves, but when you're standing it's just hk. what's the difference?
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Oh C+D is heavy punch and heavy kick together, not both kicks, if that helps. Andy's air version hits very high above him and very low below him in the air, making it great for hitting moving targets, but you have to time it early because it has some start-up time.
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the wiki doesn't have his most effective pokes. personally i feel st.c is really good and st.d as an aa would i be right?
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St. D depends too much on the position of your opponent when he does the jump since has 2 versions where one works well and the other one leave you free
St. c is good actually, lots of times seemes to beat other normals, but the range makes it not that good
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the wiki doesn't have his most effective pokes. personally i feel st.c is really good and st.d as an aa would i be right?
Well, in the section on normals certain ones are recommended as being strong pokes, but I can add something to the strategies section for good mid-range pokes. I can tell you right now that far C is great for range and the fact that it's cancellable into any special, but I'm pretty sure it can be crouched by anyone. For poking, crouching D is really amazing for its speed, range, knockdown and safety. It can be punished by hyperhops if you use it predictably, though. Standing B is really great since it's also cancellable to standing D, has good range and comes out rather quickly. Crouching B can be cancelled into standing B, which makes it a great option as well. Those are the ground pokes that I use mostly.
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i have a question about jump in and hop in attacks. i can't seem to consistently link my j.d, st.d combo :( what's the desired height to hit the opponent to make sure that j.d, st.d links? chest? abs? legs?
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average sized characters - shoulders/chest
large characters (maxima, goro) - chest/waist
You can always land a close C/D after j.D hits the shoulders, but the lower you hit them, the easier it is to combo.
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is there any data on how much frame advantage hitting j.C/j.D is worth? It can't be very much...
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Thinking of using Andy on point & I have 2 main combos that i'm using mid-screen...
0 meter - (j.D, s.C, f+A) or (cr.B, cr.A, f+A), hcf+B~BD, run s.D, d/b~f+A *whiff*
Depending on the distance you run, you will end up behind or in front of the opponent... This I find to be a lot better than finishing it with dp+C because you can keep the pressure going and mix-up a cross-up reset...
2 meter HD - (j.D, s.C, f+A) or (cr.B, s.B, s.D), HD, s.D, f+A, hcf+C, dp+C *2 hits*, Neomax
This is a very short combo that will do 670/631 dmg mid-screen and you pretty much have no chance of screwing it up...
Also there is another variation to the HD above that has a reset in the middle and if you get them with it then you'll do about 900 dmg with just 2 meters...
2 meter HD with reset - (j.D, s.C, f+A) or (cr.B, s.B, s.D), HD, s.D, f+A, hcf+B~BD, run s.D, d/b~f+A *whiff*, s.D, f+A, hcf+C, dp+C *2 hits*, Neomax
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is there any data on how much frame advantage hitting j.C/j.D is worth? It can't be very much...
Uh...no, there usually isn't any data for frame advantage on jumping normals, mostly because it's EXTREMELY variable.
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Thinking of using Andy on point & I have 2 main combos that i'm using mid-screen...
0 meter - (j.D, s.C, f+A) or (cr.B, cr.A, f+A), hcf+B~BD, run s.D, d/b~f+A *whiff*
Depending on the distance you run, you will end up behind or in front of the opponent... This I find to be a lot better than finishing it with dp+C because you can keep the pressure going and mix-up a cross-up reset...
2 meter HD - (j.D, s.C, f+A) or (cr.B, s.B, s.D), HD, s.D, f+A, hcf+C, dp+C *2 hits*, Neomax
This is a very short combo that will do 670/631 dmg mid-screen and you pretty much have no chance of screwing it up...
Also there is another variation to the HD above that has a reset in the middle and if you get them with it then you'll do about 900 dmg with just 2 meters...
2 meter HD with reset - (j.D, s.C, f+A) or (cr.B, s.B, s.D), HD, s.D, f+A, hcf+B~BD, run s.D, d/b~f+A *whiff*, s.D, f+A, hcf+C, dp+C *2 hits*, Neomax
dude, that hcf.b, bd, run s.d, whiff db f.a is awesome i never thought you could cross them up like that.
went to training mode and tried the sj setup with this. :)
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Also after Throw... d/b~f+A, jump D is a solid cross-up... However, you will always cross-up... So, it's better to just RUN and time your jump D... Done correctly I can't even tell which side i'm gonna end up at...
Also updated his Wiki section and added some HD combos...
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Yo mastaroth, your technology is really amazing
The use of db f a was something that I was trying about, but mixing it with the run will do wonders
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Andy's qcb+A has a smaller hitbox than qcb+C/AC. It can be duck by several of the cast's cr. normals.
cr. B:
Kyo, EX Kyo, Benimaru, Andy, Robert, Iori, EX Iori, Mature, Vice, Elisabeth, Duo Lon, Mai, K', Kula, Athena, Kensou, Chin, Leona
cr. C:
Mai, Athena
cr. D:
Kyo, EX Kyo, Billy, Ash, Saiki, Robert, Elisabeth, Duo Lon, Yuri, Hwa Jai, Yuri, K', Athena, Kensou, Chin, Leona
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You mean qcb a
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Very interesting, though. As far as I can tell the animation for the two fireballs are identical (aside from the speed), so it's strange that one would hit higher than the other. I should see if Hwa can slide completely under it and start a combo with d/f+B. Could come in handy...
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You mean qcb a
Sorry, About that. Fixed.
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that new video for his Zai-ei Ken punish just ruins my day, most ppl never really tried to punish but now they prolly will :( oh well just have to be careful with it
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Andy blockstring should always be his fb, zaneiken is really free
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Yeah, the only thing is that people need to be really quick with those punishes or else he will block them at the last millisecond...and if they keep failing to punish it, he can just punish them with dp+C.
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even if the player is good at punishing it, i think those high damage punishes are much less worrisome running andy on point.
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even if the player is good at punishing it, i think those high damage punishes are much less worrisome running andy on point.
Yeah on point not really a big deal.
Probably most realistic are one button punishes for chrs who have them into HD. That seems viable.
Yeah, I'm talking to you solid ;)
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So, I've been trying to do this for a while, but I dunno why it doesn't work.
Anyway, I've been playing against an Andy and they've been doing a full Kuuhadan and covering up their tracks with an EX DP. I know it's not safe so I try to punish it with my d.B. For some reason, it doesn't come out (Like I'm stuck in blockstun), or it comes out and it gets stuffed by the dp.
I've been trying it and it SOMETIMES works, but sometimes it doesn't.
Anybody out there willing to help me beat this fraudulent tactic?
Also, blocking is difficult because they buffer it. If they see me not pressing buttons, they usually try to grab or block.
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I'll run some tests if you like, which character are you trying to cr B it with?
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I'll have to do the work and actually test in the lab, but fairly certain that thing's positive on block. solid has cracked me down with it for ages. Now I just try to get the advantage by rolling, or use an invincible move against it.
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Terry and K'.
With Maxima, he can just d.C guardpoint and hit him out of any DP.
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Only EX appears to be safe on block. In order to punish it otherwise it seems to be about -4 on block (UNTESTED) off of hcf B (feels like a 1f to punish with K' cr B), off HCF D it's prohibitively unsafe.
EDIT: Same goes for Terry, so I assume his cr B is 4f startup as well.
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Yea, it is. So it's literally a one frame punish?
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I haven't completely tested it (attempting to alter advantage by standing during first, second, or third hit and alternating between them), but for the most part yes it appears to be a 1f punish. Perhaps my timing is off, it could very well be a 2f and my timing is off, but I doubt it.
EDIT: After testing with Iori's 3F st C, I feel confident in stating it's a 1f punish for 4F normals (feels loose enough to be a 2F link). So- pretty risky punish attempt for anyone with >3F normals.
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Thanks for that falken
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My pleasure, Andy's one of my favourites so it's about time I figured out how that move worked.
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So, I've been trying to do this for a while, but I dunno why it doesn't work.
Anyway, I've been playing against an Andy and they've been doing a full Kuuhadan and covering up their tracks with an EX DP. I know it's not safe so I try to punish it with my d.B. For some reason, it doesn't come out (Like I'm stuck in blockstun), or it comes out and it gets stuffed by the dp.
I've been trying it and it SOMETIMES works, but sometimes it doesn't.
Anybody out there willing to help me beat this fraudulent tactic?
Also, blocking is difficult because they buffer it. If they see me not pressing buttons, they usually try to grab or block.
i use this dirty trick myself. but i tend to do it off a kuuhadan brake instead. mostly its when i accidently commit to doing his brake combo on block. other than that its if im having a really hard time opening up the opponent and want to get some extra pressure... it can train them to keep blocking after kuuhadan brake if you nail them with one. personally i find it way too hard to react to whether or not the opponent will go for a punish or commit to block. to me it really feels like a guessing game. overall i think its far more rewarding for the opponent to guess right than andy.
im not sure of a specific tactic to deal with it other than committing more to block. i think dealing with this is the same as dealing with that crackshoot > rising tackle trap you use with terry. as unsafe as full kuuhadan and brake is, i think they are more likely than not to go for it if its in their gameplan, but if they get away with it once or twice they might be holding back if the situation occurs again. its a huge risk. 1 stock wasted and a guarenteed punish if andy guesses wrong. atleast off the kuuhadan brake andy can break a potential throw which seems to be the most common reaction to it. i think toughing it out and blocking some potential extra stuff till you bait it is your safest bet if they are prone to throwing this out.
I haven't completely tested it (attempting to alter advantage by standing during first, second, or third hit and alternating between them), but for the most part yes it appears to be a 1f punish. Perhaps my timing is off, it could very well be a 2f and my timing is off, but I doubt it.
EDIT: After testing with Iori's 3F st C, I feel confident in stating it's a 1f punish for 4F normals (feels loose enough to be a 2F link). So- pretty risky punish attempt for anyone with >3F normals.
is it the exact same off kuuhadan brake? 1-2f punish? i dont think ive ever been stuffed out of it. they either eat it trying to punish kuuhadan brake, or they block and punish.
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I haven't tested brake, so I can't comment. I'll do it some time soon, unless someone gets to it first.
EDIT: The brake is significantly less safe on block, I estimate that it is -6 both versions (tested with K' and Shen normals).
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I haven't tested brake, so I can't comment. I'll do it some time soon, unless someone gets to it first.
EDIT: The brake is significantly less safe on block, I estimate that it is -6 both versions (tested with K' and Shen normals).
holy crap, that is great to know. thanks! is it a lot more reliable to stuff the EX DP? looks like i will only be using this when i screw up a blockstring. or not at all and just hope they go for the tic throw...
haha i dont think ive ever tried this off a full kuuhadan because i assumed it was more unsafe than brake @_@
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the thing i notice in thet video on the Zaienken punish is that he is doing raw zaienken and not in a block string. I've tested the Kyo Punishes and the only legit one is NEO MAX. EX Orochinagi didnt touch Andy eventho it looked like it did Andy blocked it clean, also st ;d is very situational coz it wasnt hitting clean all the time...i'd say 2 outta the 10 times i tried it worked. the block string i used was cr. ;b cr. ;a ;db ;fd ;a
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I haven't tested brake, so I can't comment. I'll do it some time soon, unless someone gets to it first.
EDIT: The brake is significantly less safe on block, I estimate that it is -6 both versions (tested with K' and Shen normals).
holy crap, that is great to know. thanks! is it a lot more reliable to stuff the EX DP? looks like i will only be using this when i screw up a blockstring. or not at all and just hope they go for the tic throw...
haha i dont think ive ever tried this off a full kuuhadan because i assumed it was more unsafe than brake @_@
well stuff isn't quite the right term, if done properly you will punish the brake or kuuhadan, I would suggest going for the C shoryu anyways if you know they're going to press a button regardless (you can OS a throw with the motion as well). This is one of those things where you're going to have to know the opponents frame data. If I know the guys fastest normal is 4F and I do a full kuuhadan, and I expect them to press a button, I will shoryu. If you brake and aren't punished, odds are the guys doesn't know that fact so you can abuse that fact against them.
tl;dr depending on the speed of your normals it can be more dependable to punish.
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the thing i notice in thet video on the Zaienken punish is that he is doing raw zaienken and not in a block string. I've tested the Kyo Punishes and the only legit one is NEO MAX. EX Orochinagi didnt touch Andy eventho it looked like it did Andy blocked it clean, also st ;d is very situational coz it wasnt hitting clean all the time...i'd say 2 outta the 10 times i tried it worked. the block string i used was cr. ;b cr. ;a ;db ;fd ;a
I asked Gutts (the videomaker) and that is completely tested that all those punish work on blockstrings
At least he tested with another friend and said that those work. Plus they used the framedata to study those
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Yeah, whether or not it's done in a blockstring, if it is in fact blocked then the spacing and timing for the punishes are going to be exactly the same. Andy stops moving when the opponent blocks, not at a set distance like Joe's Slash Kick, for example. The only factor is whether it was blocked or whiffed.
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Yeah, whether or not it's done in a blockstring, if it is in fact blocked then the spacing and timing for the punishes are going to be exactly the same. Andy stops moving when the opponent blocks, not at a set distance like Joe's Slash Kick, for example. The only factor is whether it was blocked or whiffed.
it must be a timing thing if any. I'll try to post a vid
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can someone give me the basic lowdown on Andy corner pressure? My corner pressure with him is pretty weak right now, it just consists mainly of a knockdown, 1 backdash, and either a fireball to start or a poke like 2d, or go for a combo with st. b or c
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Andy doesn't have anything special to open people up with in the corner, so I end up doing basically the same thing as midscreen pressure except now they don't have as many options. I like doing quick spurts of rushdown with hops/lows and then after getting a knockdown back up a bit and throw out his cr. D to catch wake-up reversals.
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Andy Bogard Guard Gauge Damage
st. A: 6%
st. B: 6%
far. C: 12%
cl. C: 6% (1st hit) + 3% (2nd hit) [9% Total]
st. D: 12%
cr. A: 6%
cr. B: 6%
cr. C: 12%
cr. D: 12%
st. CD: 16%
j. A: 5%
(head) j. A: 6%
j. B: 5%
(head) j. B: 6%
j. C: 10%
(head) j. C: 12%
j. D: 10%
(head) j. D: 12%
j. CD: 12%
(head) j. CD: 14%
f+A: 8%
qcb+P: 6%
qcb+AC: 12%
db f+A: 10%
db f+C: 12%
db f+AC: 16%
hcf+B: 4% (1st hit) + 4% (2nd hit) + 4% (3rd hit) [12% Total]
hcf+D: 4% (1st hit) + 4% to 6% (2nd hit) + 4% to 6% (3rd hit) + 4% (4th hit) [16% to20% Total]
hcf+BD: 6% (1st hit) + 6% (2nd hit) + 6% (3rd hit) + 6% (4th hit)+ 6% (5th hit) + 10% (6th hit) [40% Total]
dp+A: 6% (1st hit) + 3%(2nd hit) [9% Total]
dp+C: 8% (1st hit) + 3% (2nd hit) + 3% (3rd hit) [14% Total]
dp+AC: 6% (1st hit) + 6% (2nd hit) + 6% (3rd hit) + 4% (4th hit) [22% Total]
This does not apply against Maxima, Goro, Clark, or Ralf.
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Hi guys, been playing Andy for a bit and I wanted your input on his HD combos.
I normally play Andy on point, occasionally 2nd. But when I HD I usually only use Neomax at the end, with no other meter spent. This is because of the relatively easy to execute combo that is the same midscreen and in the corner:
whatever into HD
close D, f+A xx C elbow xx [C uppercut xx C elbow (whiffs)] x4
C uppercut xx neomax on 3rd hit
start with cr.B x3: 707
- when starting with cr.B x3, continuing the combo with close C is a bit easier. making this change results in 694 damage instead.
start with j.D, close C (1-hit), f+A: 793 damage
To execute the [C uppercut xx C elbow (whiffs)] part, simply do this motion:
632146 + C (hold the button down)
The HCB~F motion gives a dp, and of course you also just input 1~6. By holding the button this will also activate the elbow. If the elbow does not come out for you, you are starting the joystick motion too early.
For this combo midscreen, you merely need to reverse the direction of your motion (632146 to the right, 412364 to the left). In the corner, you can use the same motion each time.
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I only use this HD combo. I could probably stand to learn a 3 or 4 bar variant for a little extra damage, but I'm happy with this one at the moment.
Can anyone here comment? Do you think there is an easier or more useful 2 bar HD combo?
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his dp+C juggles are indeed his strongest 2 bar combo. i thought you could, but im not sure how to add dmg to it with extra stocks. maybe its just EX DM > max cancel. theres videos out there somewhere with his DP juggle.
for corner HD, it feels easier for me doing his typical corner juggles. starter > kuuha dan (brake) [ A zaneiken x2 > kuuha dan (brake) ] x3 > A zaneiken x2 > neomax
it does a bit less damage, 774 off a j.D. something like ~729 off cr.b, st.B, st.D
you can add EX zaneikens for more dmg, but i always just stick to 2 bars as well.
i didnt know about the HCB~F and that has helped me a lot learning that combo. full screen it sure feels a hell of a lot easier than doing A zaneiken > kuuha dan (brake) over and over.
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These are seriously cool!
KOFXIII - Andy Optimised HD Combos [1080p HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CJkcXDO6iM#ws)
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These are seriously cool!
KOFXIII - Andy Optimised HD Combos [1080p HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CJkcXDO6iM#ws)
Always found that andy combos didn't made that much damage, but now I see that I had to stop using hcf + b, BD to get optimal damage
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Dunno why I haven't seen this here.
KOFXIII :Andy Option Select By MF Oubah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMo-de2quwQ#)
Its pretty baws.
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didnt know andy could go for the throw after a cr.B, always thought i would have to st.C. nice.
the far D on the back roll looks tough.
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Its all the same input and timing its not bad at all with practice
You just do c.B f.B (bf hold f) f.D to get auto corrected dash.
Give it a whirl!
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so....just trying to understand his game play in general...
which part he excels on mr.krate and robert..??
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that would be:
Safe fireball A block strings.
Fairly safe A shoulder rush. only punishable by few characters without the use of meter (Hwa's s.D or even s.C that will leat to a small combo, or possibly death if he decides to use meter.
That diagonal dp is really good for zoning, unlike Mr. 5$ and Roberts which go mostly vertical.
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Thanks 4 the notes..but i did't understood this one..
Safe fireball A block strings.
aren't Robert and Andy in these points are the same(in general) ..??and Mr krate in the block strings matter..??
also for Mr Krate..his qcf+c is unsafe but if it done after cl. ;c ;fd ;b (without the dash follow up) .. it's so hard to punish..it's only punishable by Andy's neo max..
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My point has always been the unsure part of my team. I've been experimenting with a bunch of different characters and I've come down to 3: Andy, Shen, and Kyo.
What do you guys think is the best option? I'm really digging Andy, but my Shen and Kyo can be just as proficient. What are your guy's opinions on Andy as opposed to the other two (Shen and Kyo)?
The other two members of my team (and these will never change) are Claw Iori and Takuma.
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I think you're best off with either Andy or Kyo given how much work they can do without meter, and how much meter they build just implementing their standard combos. Both are extremely versatile and dynamic characters but of those two, I'd put Andy on point. Andy can set up a lot of tricky resets midscreen with the Kuuhadan breaks and there's always an opportunity to get around the screen and build meter using A Zaneiken. He can also clutch out some situations going the lame route with fireballs again building meter and keeping people out with his excellent normals.
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I like andy, his hop c and crouching c rock, and i like the fireball, but i play online which lately is pretty fast. And i always get pressured into the corner. And i dont really know sure ways to react. Tonight i was trying to d. b fast or dp + c out of it. I also struggle with hcf +b and breaking it 100%, half the time online i throw a standing b instead. My b+d are set to left trigger, so i hcf b+ left trigger(B+D) I read about the d.b S.b S.c hcb a combo though that is probably gonna be a life saver for me. I got in a really bad habit of over relying on dp, and its very punishable espeically if your predictable with it. How would you guys suggest practicing or best areas to work on andy.
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There are many combo videos for Andy, but nearly each of them lacks the input data.
I suppose everybody know the HD combo where andy shift from left to right to left etc canceling the dp into db-f all time and keeping the enemy afloat in the air
(For example in the andy combo video from personaworld:
"Andy fighting Ralf: jp C, D xx fA xx BC, D xx fA xx db-f C xx dp C (1 hit) xx db-f C, dp C (1 hit) xx db-f C, dp C (1 hit) xx db-f C, dp C (1 hit) xx hcf K xx BD, qcb-hcf BD xx qcb-hcf AC")
There must be a shortcut or something ?! It is otherwise extremely difficult to input. Could somebody tell me the easiest way to input this HD combo?
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There are many combo videos for Andy, but nearly each of them lacks the input data.
I suppose everybody know the HD combo where andy shift from left to right to left etc canceling the dp into db-f all time and keeping the enemy afloat in the air
(For example in the andy combo video from personaworld:
"Andy fighting Ralf: jp C, D xx fA xx BC, D xx fA xx db-f C xx dp C (1 hit) xx db-f C, dp C (1 hit) xx db-f C, dp C (1 hit) xx db-f C, dp C (1 hit) xx hcf K xx BD, qcb-hcf BD xx qcb-hcf AC")
There must be a shortcut or something ?! It is otherwise extremely difficult to input. Could somebody tell me the easiest way to input this HD combo?
2 methods for getting the dp.C xx db-f.C you can try (and see which works best for you);
f,hcf (holding forward at the end) then CC (holding the second C) or... f,db,f (again holding forward at end) then doing CC (again holding on the second C).
Both these involve combining both inputs into a single move motion.
See how you go, good luck :D
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@ KnightKinetik.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I now consistently can do your advised f,hcf (holding forward at the end) then C, but I just input C once and hold it (leniency seems even better in HD mode, dont know why).
It works, but comes out only at 1st hit of the enemy, otherwise just dp comes out.
However, when switching sides in the combo (enemy afloat in the air), although I do the correct & mirrored input either nothing comes out or just a regular dragon punch. Is there a specific timing or input window to it ? Or does hold C negate the follow up input, maybe?
Eventually someone indeed has/could make a input video or something ? it really drives me nuts (checked all over youtube, this specific combo has no inputs shown, even if Bala uses Andy in a few videos).
(holding the second C)
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Usually for me, If nothing comes out at all I find that I've done the input too early. I don't know what happens when regular dp happens exactly, but I'm sure it's to with the input buffer and what it thinks it has as inputs in it.
I could try to make a input video, but really just focusing on the dp xx db-f part instead of the whole combo you're looking at (it'll also only be vid camera quality as I don't have capture equipment).
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@ Knight Kinetik. Quality is secondary, even vid quality would be much appreciated and it would even contain your clicking button sound for timing. Thanks in advance! :-)
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Here you go man, I hope the inputs are clean enough for you, a few of attempts I remember brain melting and just mashing buttons during hd bypass (luckily I'm pretty sure that stuff didn't make it in :P)
KoFXIII Andy Shoryudan HD Cancel Zaneiken Loop Input Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRmGXG4H7tY)
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@knightkinetik: holy moly, thanks A LOT! this will definitively help!!
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KOF XIII : Andy Bogard best damages combos tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4xB79Mld8#)
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So....does anyone actually use Andy anymore?
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I play him on point, where I feel he's strongest.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I feel that outside of select situations, you should never spend meter as Andy.
Using EX Hishouken means you're probably in a really bad/awkward situation you shouldn't be in. EX Zaneiken is basically a gimmick, as is EX Kuuhadan (how I miss this move's invincibility). EX Shoryudan can help you get out of the corner if you feel that it's worth spending the meter, but otherwise it's pretty mediocre.
What I'm getting at is that none of Andy's EX moves solve any problem that can't be solved by just playing better.
As for damage, I don't feel that it's worth it unless it's going to kill. Andy's meterless damage is already so good that spending any meter or (especially) drive is basically a waste.
I've always felt that Andy was a purpose built point character, and I think that moreso than ever now. As long as you've built up enough meter for your next character (in my case, Shen) to do some damage with, who cares if you lost? Having a meter lead with a character who can optimize it is worth losing a point character, if you ask me.
If Andy's your second character, I guess you can somewhat justify spending meter on combos, but I still feel that it's sub-optimal. If Andy's your anchor, get a better one.
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Posted in the main video thread, but might as well put it here too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxKJnRgvQqA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxKJnRgvQqA)
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More damage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZplaMveF4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZplaMveF4)
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KoF XIII : Any Bogard Combo by HMMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5KKcewmokM#)