Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => King => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:59:16 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/king.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
Hook Buster - ;bk / ;fd+ ;c / ;d
Command Moves
Slide Kick - ;df + ;d
Special Moves
Trap Shot - ;fd ;dn ;df ;b / ;d *
Venom Strike - ;dn ;df ;fd ;b or ;d * (can be done in air)
Tornado Kick '95 - ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b / ;d *
Desperation Moves
Double Strike - ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;b / ;d
Surprise Rose - ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a / ;c *
Neomax
Venom Shot - ;dn ;db ;bk ;dn ;db ;bk ;b+ ;d
King's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=King_(XIII)).
Console changes:
- (shown in video) Jump D stays out longer
- (shown in video) close C has faster startup
- (shown in video) D Venom Strike (air) has a smaller recoil
- far D has less lag
- (shown in video) Slide can be cancelled without being cancelled into
Producer Yamamoto says: We focused on her normals mainly. Although the number of changes are few, it will change gameplay significantly as normals are used most often. Her slide is a great low move and since her close HP {s.C} isn’t affected by scaling easily, please us it often as a combo starter.
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Reserved
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Reserved
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I christen thee: The New King Thread!
Perhaps some optimized HD combos to start?
[Near Corner] st.D, df+D [HD activate] st.C, df+D, hcb+D (2) [HDC] air qcf+BD, dash (dp+B [HDC] hcb+B)x3
Enders:
*w/ 1 Bar - qcf+B, cr.C (Reset)
*w/ 3 Bar - hcb+D, qcfx2+AC
If you have two bars before the HD combo, do the old dp+B [HDC] hcb+B x4 loop and end with hcb+D, qcfx2+AC.
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air qcb+BD
Enders:
*1 Bar - qcf+B, cr.C (Reset)
Typos?
or does air qcb+BD actually do something?
and why is qcf+B>c.C listed as 1 bar?
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air qcb+BD
Enders:
*1 Bar - qcf+B, cr.C (Reset)
Typos?
or does air qcb+BD actually do something?
and why is qcf+B>c.C listed as 1 bar?
He's saying one bar for the entire combo, in which you've already spent a bar for doing EX Venom Strike.
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My bad, I meant qcf+BD (EX Venom Strike). The enders are 1 bar and 3 bar when combined with the combo starter above them. I'll correct it.
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i see i see, that was a bit derpy on my part lol.
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I've just discovered the magic of AAing with df+D. It's absolutely GDLK. Her body hurtbox drops down so low she avoids pretty much everything airborne, and gets a free combo. Also, I had no idea qcfx2+A was invincible. I thought only the EX version was!
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I've just discovered the magic of AAing with df+D. It's absolutely GDLK. Her body hurtbox drops down so low she avoids pretty much everything airborne, and gets a free combo. Also, I had no idea qcfx2+A was invincible. I thought only the EX version was!
Awesome find! I keep forgetting about using crouching lows to shrink hurtboxes, and the slide's no exception - going to run that through tonight's training mode time for sure.
Also as far as the HD combos go, that's cool you can continue from hcb+D with air EX Venom Strike. I also know for 3 bars you can get an ender of (dp+B [HDC] hcb+B)x3, Double Strike, EX Surprise Rose, though you sacrifice the earlier hcb+D for an hcb+B and the air EX Venom Strike for that. I'll check which variations work best for the 1, 2, and 3 meter cases - though you may have already figured that out.
EDIT: nvm, checked the wiki and the pathway you listed always does more damage.
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While I love King, I have some anti-King questions :P
1.) What are the best ways to escape the corner if she does a block like cr.b, st.b, d/f b, venom strike? she is far enough to catch rolls, and jumping isn't the best idea :S
2.) Is the best way to deal with her fireballs mid-screen to roll through the fast ones and neu. jump the slow ones? or eagle eye with moves?
3.) Are there any other strats/shenanigans to help with the matchup?
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I've just discovered the magic of AAing with df+D. It's absolutely GDLK. Her body hurtbox drops down so low she avoids pretty much everything airborne, and gets a free combo. Also, I had no idea qcfx2+A was invincible. I thought only the EX version was!
Awesome find! I keep forgetting about using crouching lows to shrink hurtboxes, and the slide's no exception - going to run that through tonight's training mode time for sure.
Also as far as the HD combos go, that's cool you can continue from hcb+D with air EX Venom Strike. I also know for 3 bars you can get an ender of (dp+B [HDC] hcb+B)x3, Double Strike, EX Surprise Rose, though you sacrifice the earlier hcb+D for an hcb+B and the air EX Venom Strike for that. I'll check which variations work best for the 1, 2, and 3 meter cases - though you may have already figured that out.
EDIT: nvm, checked the wiki and the pathway you listed always does more damage.
Yup. HD combo into Double Strike, EX Surprise Rose ender is harder to time + weaker. Doing hcb+D HDC EX Venom Strike at the beginning of King's combos usually yields the best damage. This goes for even her 2 bar 50% corner combos too!
While I love King, I have some anti-King questions :P
1.) What are the best ways to escape the corner if she does a block like cr.b, st.b, d/f b, venom strike? she is far enough to catch rolls, and jumping isn't the best idea :S
2.) Is the best way to deal with her fireballs mid-screen to roll through the fast ones and neu. jump the slow ones? or eagle eye with moves?
3.) Are there any other strats/shenanigans to help with the matchup?
1) On King's end, corner pressure boils down to will they jump/won't they. King's main AAs (st.C, st.D) have very high hitboxes which make it easy to cover jump space in front of her. The main weakness of this pressure is that King can't cover both jumping and rolling simultaneously, even if she waits . If King thinks you'll jump, she hits st.C/st.D because it HAS to be done preemptively. Because of its hitbox, her feet are vulnerable to sweeps and cr.Bs. Rolling at this point is also great, because her attacks aren't the fastest and she can't punish you. Some Kings, myself included, use B Tornado Kick in addition to st.C/st.D to catch jumps + start a combo. If you do nothing and crouch, the second hit of B Tornado Kick whiffs for a full combo.
2) King, unlike Kensou/Athena/Mai, can't chase her fireballs well. If you roll through a fast fireball (this version has the most recovery), she usually can't punish you. This is probably distance dependent, but try it out. Jumping is actually Venom Strike's biggest weaknesses. It's pretty bad on recovery, and you can get full combos if you anticipate it. The obvious problem here is that she can fake it and AA you, and then recycle this strategy until you die. Her strength is her zoning, but she has poor defense. You have to make good reads with a combination of rolls/jumps/invincible moves to break through it and take advantage of that. I wouldn't recommend rolling through the slow Venom Strikes...as I'm sure D Tornado Kick can punish you from miles away.
3) Rush that shit down. She is free on defense with no meter, ala Rufus from SF4. Her only reversal options are Surprise Rose and EX Trap Shot. You can use this to your advantage and work on her guard gauge until it depletes.
These are simply opinions on what I'd do if I were facing a King. Feel free to watch videos or experiment in training mode+record to find better answers yourself. :)
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Thanks, but i'm looking for staple answers that don't involve me having to make a 50/50 guess and potentially losing 1/3 of my life and being back in the corner.
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Thanks, but i'm looking for staple answers that don't involve me having to make a 50/50 guess and potentially losing 1/3 of my life and being back in the corner.
haha yeah I know it's rough, but you can do it man. I believe in you!
If getting out of King's great corner pressure was as easy as cycling through 1 or 2 staple options, it wouldn't be very effective pressure. You're going to have to work to get out and make a good read or two. That's just how standard corner offense works in most fighters. It's not as simple as option A = you're out. You have to push forward in increments: hit a sweep, tag a high AA attempt with a quick low or armored/invul move, maybe even walk forward and throw. Your escape has to cater not only to the situation but to your opponent. King's post slide xx Venom strike pressure has holes, you just have to work at finding them.
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Thanks, but i'm looking for staple answers that don't involve me having to make a 50/50 guess and potentially losing 1/3 of my life and being back in the corner.
haha yeah I know it's rough, but you can do it man. I believe in you!
If getting out of King's great corner pressure was as easy as cycling through 1 or 2 staple options, it wouldn't be very effective pressure. You're going to have to work to get out and make a good read or two. That's just how standard corner offense works in most fighters. It's not as simple as option A = you're out. You have to push forward in increments: hit a sweep, tag a high AA attempt with a quick low or armored/invul move, maybe even walk forward and throw. Your escape has to cater not only to the situation but to your opponent. King's post slide xx Venom strike pressure has holes, you just have to work at finding them.
That's all I needed to know, thank you.
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kupô
i have hard time to deal with these character Mai/Leona/Iori
can you give me some advices to kill theme
Mai - good zoning with normal,the threat of NeoMAX,very nice air play :-(
Leona - same as Mai with V-Slasher, mix with hop+CD>d.B again and again......
Iori - Crossp b.B, jump B/D, and the normal Iori stuffs
thanks kupô ^0^
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How meter dependent would you say King is? I'm considering replacing Kensou with her instead.
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Well if you want her to have any sort of dependable reversal or invincible move...she would need the meter. I mean, you can run her on point and she'll be somewhat fine, but then if she gets put in the corner without meter, she's completely muffed.
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I was gonna place her as my 2nd character.
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kupô
what is the best combo in midscreen with full drive & 2~3 meters ?
thanks
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Probably something like
(jump attack) cl.D/C, df.D, HD, cl.D/C, df.D, hcb D(2 hit), (HDC) qcf B+D, (run up a little), [dp B, (HDC) hcb B]x3, hcb D, qcf qcf A+C
If you do cl.C instead of cl.D you'll get 10 more damage. 805 with the jump in attack
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Probably something like
(jump attack) cl.D/C, df.D, HD, cl.D/C, df.D, hcb D(2 hit), (HDC) qcf A+C, (run up a little), [dp B, (HDC) hcb B]x3, hcb D, qcf qcf A+C
If you do cl.C instead of cl.D you'll get 10 more damage. 805 with the jump in attack
To add to this, ideally you want the opponent at the wall by the time you do the qcf+BD, otherwise you'll get pushed too far away to run up and follow with the dp+B. Works up to around the center of the stage.
I think you get a little more damage too if you omit the first df.D? I don't remember for sure.
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Uh...isn't Venom Strike QCF+K? She doesn't have a QCF+P move to my knowledge outside of QCFx2+P for Surprise Rose.
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Yeah that's what I meant. My bad.
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Hey guys I need a little help. I'm on King's trial 6 and I can't for the life of me get the first trap shot to connect after the light venom strike. What is the timing on this thing?
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Is it possible to land a Tornado Kick after something like df+D>Double Strike? I saw it somewhere but I haven't gotten it to work, and the video may have been oldish.
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Hey guys I need a little help. I'm on King's trial 6 and I can't for the life of me get the first trap shot to connect after the light venom strike. What is the timing on this thing?
Make sure you're delaying the EX Venom Strike after the df+D. It sets up the perfect range for the Venom Strike into Trap Shot juggle. I don't really have an exact explanation for it since I go by visual cue. You should be right at the edge of Trap Shot's range. If you cancel the df+D early, you'll be out of Trap Shot range. If you cancel late, you'll be very close to the opponent's body, but the Trap Shot won't trigger for some reason. Once you get it the first time, you'll know what I mean.
Is it possible to land a Tornado Kick after something like df+D>Double Strike? I saw it somewhere but I haven't gotten it to work, and the video may have been oldish.
It has to be a D Tornado Kick. Although, it doesn't work off of df+D>Double Strike. Generally, it'll only work if you use Double Strike to juggle. The only exception I've found is if you use Double Strike raw and the opponent in the corner, due to the distancing.
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Ah, the video I saw had j.C>cr.C>HD>cr.C>df+D>Double Strike, would that make any difference? Or just does it not work off of the slide at all anymore?
There was another combo I had trouble with, but I'll have to pop in the game to see what the combo is and where the trouble lies (I think its similar to what the other guy had, but in an HD combo).
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How meter dependent would you say King is? I'm considering replacing Kensou with her instead.
I don't have much experience with fighting games, but I've found that King doesn't really use up all that much meter. A lot of the time I just use her as a battery.
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I am having the biggest problem connecting her Surprise Rose and Double Strike right now during long combos.
Any tips & tricks?
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Connecting as in doing it in time?
Hold the attack button down after doing the move, the game will repeat the input for a few frames for you. So you can input the move early, hold the button down and King will do the super the moment she recovers from her previous move.
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How meter dependent would you say King is? I'm considering replacing Kensou with her instead.
I don't have much experience with fighting games, but I've found that King doesn't really use up all that much meter. A lot of the time I just use her as a battery.
I think the problem with using King as a battery, is that she doesn't build meter very well. Chances are, you're going to be shooting a lot of venom strikes, which only build meter on hit/block, and even then its very small. If you're getting in and getting small combos, etc, then yeah, she builds meter ok, but I feel like she definitely benefits more from coming in behind somebody who has already built up some meter for her to use.
Like a number of other guys said, if she gets put in the corner early in the match and doesn't have meter to escape, then the only way shes going to be playing battery is gaining the meter she gets from being killed.
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by the way, I've been wondering...does King have any weird normal links, like Iori's cl.B, cl.C or Mai's cr.A, cr.C? I didn't notice any in her trials.
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Potential King Corner mix up.
Forward Throw > Roll.
You can control which side you land on, ambiguous as all hell, and you recover first so it is generally safe.
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http://logicfighter.com/2012/03/06/maxmode_002/ (http://logicfighter.com/2012/03/06/maxmode_002/)
Here's a character analysis coming from Sparkster. Might be useful so I decided to share it.
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What's the max damage you guys have gotten from her raw neomax? Mine is 540.
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540? How? I barely break 350.
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What's the max damage you guys have gotten from her raw neomax? Mine is 540.
I remember getting 18 hits...is that 540?
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King helped me win my first local KOFXIII tournament earlier today.
Regarding the Neomax, I would get different damage values depending on the distance I performed it away from the opponent.
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^Congrats man.
540? How? I barely break 350.
Depends on how close and high you are, if you do it while close and on the ground then the damage is usually 300 something.
Not sure how to get 540 consistently but jumping at the opponent and doing it somewhere over their head often results in 510, or close to it.
I remember getting 18 hits...is that 540?
Looks like it, based on the wiki hit stats.
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Good stuff Des, King's a very solid character.
Depends on how close and high you are, if you do it while close and on the ground then the damage is usually 300 something.
If you're first player, jump and hit the NM at roughly 10-11 o'clock and you'll get 18 hits IIRC.
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Either way her Neomax isn't that great. I don't think I've ever used it in a real match.
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agree... I only use it when (for auto pilot error) activate HD in mid screen and so after tornado I don't know what to do :\ and scale damage (or didn't take all hit don't know) like hell.
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I was curious, what are King's most reliable (and meter efficient) ways to get mid-screen damage? It seems to me that she can only do anything significant if you end a combo with EX Trap Shot, Double Strike, or Surprise Rose. I realize that King is not a damage dealing character, but it would be nice to get as much as I can per opportunity.
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I was curious, what are King's most reliable (and meter efficient) ways to get mid-screen damage? It seems to me that she can only do anything significant if you end a combo with EX Trap Shot, Double Strike, or Surprise Rose. I realize that King is not a damage dealing character, but it would be nice to get as much as I can per opportunity.
I usually use cr.Bx2, st.B, df+D into hcb+B, then you can reset with s.C or s.B. Yeah, I agree her damage isn't great, but at least you can knock them to the ground (which isn't techable). If you land a throw, try to cross them up with J.D (after a short) or empty jump in front of them with a low attack or another throw, etc.
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King's most damaging option(per meter consumption) midscreen is probably gonna be something like hitconfirm, df.D ex venom strike, D tornado kick. Does around 30% from the cr.b cr.b st.b confirm. But as stated numerous times her damage doesn't come from combos. It comes from effective zoning.
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I was curious, what are King's most reliable (and meter efficient) ways to get mid-screen damage? It seems to me that she can only do anything significant if you end a combo with EX Trap Shot, Double Strike, or Surprise Rose. I realize that King is not a damage dealing character, but it would be nice to get as much as I can per opportunity.
I wouldn't bother going for mid-screen damage unless you're going for a kill. If you're in the middle of the stage though, don't forget to add a slide into your combo, since it pushes the opponent pretty far. Then you can carry them with Trap Shot > (DC) B Tornado Kick > D Tornado Kick > Surprise Rose (if/once you get close to the corner). Otherwise, just do the reset that everybody else does.
If you want to spend meter to get damage mid-screen (but not really worth it, unless you want to look flashy lol):
1 drive, 1 stock: xx > Trap Shot > (DC) B Tornado Kick > B Double Strike
2 drive, 2 stock: xx > Trap Shot > (DC) B Tornado Kick > D Tornado Kick (1-hit) > (DC) EX Venom Strike > D Double Strike
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Thanks for the advice. Looking fancy is always my first priority ;) For real, though, I'll keep those things in mind, and I will focus on zoning.
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Lately I've tried getting into the habit of not using Drive Cancels in the corner, because it feels like for every hit-confirm in the corner, you can do a non-drive variant and get close in damage (only about 30-50 less). I've been using Drives mostly to turn EX Trap Shots into about 250 damage / corner escapes, and getting damage off a combo that corner carries but didn't start in the corner.
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Hey is it known that surprise rose can cross up? Well, it can. And against shorter characters, throw the opponent with either throw, immediately do a short hop, then qcfx2+A or C. On some characters, A crosses up and C doesn't; on others, C crosses up and A doesn't; and on others they both always cross up. I don't really know how unsafe the super is, but it looks safeish on block. Is it?
Also, do people know that after King throws the opponent into the corner, you can cross the opponent up? In fact, with very slight variations in timing for the jump after the throw, you can cross up or not cross up.
Sorry, I'm planning to read everything through, but for now I'm just messing around in training mode and don't really know what's already common knowledge.
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Hey is it known that surprise rose can cross up? Well, it can. And against shorter characters, throw the opponent with either throw, immediately do a short hop, then qcfx2+A or C. On some characters, A crosses up and C doesn't; on others, C crosses up and A doesn't; and on others they both always cross up. I don't really know how unsafe the super is, but it looks safeish on block. Is it?
Also, do people know that after King throws the opponent into the corner, you can cross the opponent up? In fact, with very slight variations in timing for the jump after the throw, you can cross up or not cross up.
Sorry, I'm planning to read everything through, but for now I'm just messing around in training mode and don't really know what's already common knowledge.
The second part is pretty common, but I am not sure if you can only do that from the 1P side (It was reported as only being 1P side-able). The first part I don't hear very often though, but I'm pretty sure Surprise Rose on block is not safe at all.
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Also, do people know that after King throws the opponent into the corner, you can cross the opponent up? In fact, with very slight variations in timing for the jump after the throw, you can cross up or not cross up.
Yeah, that works the same way when you roll over them and land on the other side (in the corner) too...if you take a small step back, she can land in front of them...a really cool ambiguous set up that someone around here mentioned a while back (I forgot who).
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Looks like King has been moving up the tier ranks, she's become pretty common in tournament play now with both Romance and Bala putting her on point. She can often be seen doing well in Japanese match vids as well.
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Spent most of the day messing around in the lab and when I got to King I believe I discovered something interesting. I dunno if they has been stated before though so sorry if this is old news.
If you are ever zoning with her and your opponent gets in, you could reset the position so to say by hoping at them with ;c and canceling that into ;d Venom Strike. If they block this midcreen puts you about 3 1/2 characters apart and allows you to run away some more. If they get hit they are sent to the other side of the screen and you've netted 127 damage. Useful for running away I feel without backdashing all the time and it might throw them off to see King coming at them.
The downside to this, however, is that you should not do it when you're close to the corner. I've tested it and EX Ranbu's like Iori's can punish her because she has a bit of landing recovery so if you opponent has fast moving horizontal attack you should not do it near the corner. However a possible offset to this downside is if you're in the corner and they are in your face use GCCD, run at them, and Hop ;c into ;d Venom Strike. That should give you a lot more breathing room though it does cost a meter but whatever, King does not necessarily need it and can get it back. Personally I try to play a mix of Rushdown and Zoning King so for those who do the same this might help you fuck with your opponents mind.
I'll take this to offline sets to see how effective it is and see if I can't make better use of it in other ways.
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Looks like King has been moving up the tier ranks, she's become pretty common in tournament play now with both Romance and Bala putting her on point. She can often be seen doing well in Japanese match vids as well.
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but she is a solid character against Mr. Karate because she can punish qcf+A on reaction (D tornado kick) limiting him to normals and parries. This doesn't necessarily make it 6-4, but the matchup is definitely NOT in Karate's favor.
In my experience, Kim and Benimaru are the only characters that can consistently beat or trade with her anti air normals, so those are the only matchups I'd venture to call "bad".
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Looks like King has been moving up the tier ranks, she's become pretty common in tournament play now with both Romance and Bala putting her on point. She can often be seen doing well in Japanese match vids as well.
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but she is a solid character against Mr. Karate because she can punish qcf+A on reaction (D tornado kick) limiting him to normals and parries. This doesn't necessarily make it 6-4, but the matchup is definitely NOT in Karate's favor.
I would put her in top 8.
The Karate qcf A punish is a huge revelation, I didn't know that at least. Good stuff.
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Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but she is a solid character against Mr. Karate because she can punish qcf+A on reaction (D tornado kick) limiting him to normals and parries. This doesn't necessarily make it 6-4, but the matchup is definitely NOT in Karate's favor.
In my experience, Kim and Benimaru are the only characters that can consistently beat or trade with her anti air normals, so those are the only matchups I'd venture to call "bad".
That Tornado kick also shuts down Duo Lon's teleport after rekkas, didn't know it did the same against Karate as well.
Anyone know the frame data on the kick? Ryo's HCB+B also works against Duo Lon's teleport, wonder if it also works against Karate's fireball (can't test since I didn't get Karate).
The Karate qcf A punish is a huge revelation, I didn't know that at least. Good stuff.
Karate feels like less of a threat as time goes on tbh.
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Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but she is a solid character against Mr. Karate because she can punish qcf+A on reaction (D tornado kick) limiting him to normals and parries.
This isn't working for me. In training mode I have Mr. Karate on all guard with a recorded qcf+A and I can't punish it on block with King's hcb+D. I tried after a blockstring and raw point blank, in the corner and midscreen.
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This isn't working for me. In training mode I have Mr. Karate on all guard with a recorded qcf+A and I can't punish it on block with King's hcb+D. I tried after a blockstring and raw point blank, in the corner and midscreen.
No, you punish it on whiff, on reaction.
If he does a qcf+A and it whiffs, IMMEDIATELY do D Tornado and you'll hit his recovery. This is of course assuming he's 2/3 screen or closer, but he won't really use qcf+A from further away anyway.
Simply stay around 1/2 screen distance and punish this move repeatedly, and he'll have to come in on you if you have a lead. At that distance if he tries hyperhop anything you can st.C for a trade (or better), throw grounded B or EX fireballs, or try to go on offense with a slide or by running towards him (don't hop him, for the love of god).
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I've been using the EX Trap Shot as my general dp, but I noticed on the wiki that EX tornado kick has invinc frames too. Any thoughts on when and where to use each in response to pressure (in corner, on wakeup, responding to hops)?
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I've been using the EX Trap Shot as my general dp, but I noticed on the wiki that EX tornado kick has invinc frames too. Any thoughts on when and where to use each in response to pressure (in corner, on wakeup, responding to hops)?
EX Trap Shot works better as a hop/jump anti-air. EX Tornado Kick is generally good for blowing through non-Super projectiles, I forget if it beats EX projectiles. Watch out on wakeup and when cornered though, since neither are remotely safe on block.
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I've been using the EX Trap Shot as my general dp, but I noticed on the wiki that EX tornado kick has invinc frames too. Any thoughts on when and where to use each in response to pressure (in corner, on wakeup, responding to hops)?
EX Trap Shot works better as a hop/jump anti-air. EX Tornado Kick is generally good for blowing through non-Super projectiles, I forget if it beats EX projectiles. Watch out on wakeup and when cornered though, since neither are remotely safe on block.
I like also to punish whiff heavy normal, keep in mind if someone is trying something stupid xD
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I got curious the other day on King's Neomax, and wanted to run a little experiment. We all know it's a poor move to throw out in the open, or add to combos (save after an HD combo ending in EX Surprise Rose), but the fact that it's got 0-1 frame startup means she potentially has an instantaneous punish to unsafe blockstrings. So I'm going to try running this move as a counter to moves that are used in blockstrings and are relatively safe, but should be punishable by this to see where and if it can be used. Here's what I gathered from yesterday against Kim:
Claw Iori:
- Blockstring ending in qcb+C/AC: 13 hits up close (s.C starter), 14 if started far (d.B, d.A, f+A). Gets 15 if he uses d.Bx2, d.A, f+A!
- Blocked df+C: 12-13 hits. Probably not reliable but not punishable with EX Surprise Rose.
- qcb+D: 13-15 hits depending on distance after the move (best if blocked further). Can't imagine him using this when he also has the EX version (neutral on block), but if he advances with this it can be punished.
- Blocked air b+B: 12-13 hits. Punishable but hard to block and punish, not really worth it.
Kim:
- cr.Bx2, st.B (st.B -6) - Pretty reliably gets 15 hits.
- cr.Bx2 (cr.B +0), Gets 15 hits most of the time, max distance second cr.B sometimes resulted in only 13 hits. Need to check if this can be done between a second cr.B and a st.B, probably just easier to watch for a st.B.
- far D, cr.B, st.B - Pretty reliably gets 15 hits.
Granted this may only be useful as a game-finisher, but every little bit helps, right?
Also as you might guess, this loses effectiveness if King has an opponent cornered, as you don't get all the bubbles.
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^ This is a good idea, Ryujin. Keep us in the loop with your findings. Since I play with King, I might join you and see what I find, haha.
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I'm having trouble getting King's j.D cl.D df+D -> hcb+B
Over all I have problems trying to cancel anything into or out of Tornado Kick '95. Usually Trap Shot pops out or a Venom Strike. Any tips on making these fundamental moves easier to execute? Even with inputs shown in screen I seem to do things wrong...
Also, is it possible to hit with a ;d Venom Strike in air after a j.CD when it is NOT a counter hit?
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as with every character, unless the special has anywhere-juggle properties (which Venom Strike does not) it won't connect after a non-counter hit air normal which is essentially resets them.
regarding execution, it could be that you're just not used to timing the cancels properly. Make sure to watch some King matches and get it down. It would also be useful to learn about "positive edge" or the button holding technique for specials to come out easier. Juicebox made a video about it on YouTube.
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I'm having trouble getting King's j.D cl.D df+D -> hcb+B
Over all I have problems trying to cancel anything into or out of Tornado Kick '95. Usually Trap Shot pops out or a Venom Strike. Any tips on making these fundamental moves easier to execute? Even with inputs shown in screen I seem to do things wrong...
If you are getting a Trap Shot or a Venom Strike when you're meaning to get a Tornado Kick, then that means you aren't completing the hcb motion accurately at all. You have to put in all those directional inputs too, rather clearly...
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I turned on the input display to help diagnose my problem. I realized I was spazing out on the buttons so fast I was trying to force the hcb from df.D and pressing ;b before the hcb even completed. The input looked like ;d, ;df ;d then instead of letting the stick back to neutral I'd try to force the hcb only to get jumbled input like ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;b ;db ;bk (which is why I got trapshot)
Or sometimes it would be ;d ;df ;d ;df ;dn ;df ;fd ;d ;df ;dn ;db ;bk (held df too long, then tried to start the hcb only to push the button too soon and get a venom strike with a bunch of useless inputs afterwards)
Turning on the input display has helped a lot. Calming down and remembering to complete my circle motions before touching a button has been hard for me. I played a bunch of MK9 before coming to KoF and everything was dial a combo. Negative edge would mean mashing a combo in the wrong order still made the combo come out! KoF is definitely making me a better fighter just by not being so lenient on timing.
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Back in the lab with King again. I got to a point where I can do ;dn ;b, ;dn ;b, ;st ;b, ;df ;d and variations like j.;d, (Close) ;d, ;df ;d. Now I'm trying to add drive cancels and a little meter burn.
I've seen some good mid screen combos where King does a ;b Tornado Kick, ;d Tornado Kick to push opponents into the corner. I can't seem to do it except after Trapshot.
It looks like this.
King, Low, Mid-screen, 0 supers, 1DC.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66q8Xr9F0YA#ws)
Can King link the ;b and ;d versions of her Tornado Kick without first using Trapshot?
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You can only do it by drive canceling a trap shot. This knocks the opponent higher and allows the D tornado to connect.
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You can only do it by drive canceling a trap shot. This knocks the opponent higher and allows the D tornado to connect.
Thanks!
I was watching your KoF XIII basics video today and I have a question about practicing anti-airs. Does every characters' hop, hyper hop, jump and hyper jump have the same distance? So if I make my practice dummy Kensou the timing will be the same against K' etc?
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No. Every character has their own jump heights and distances (the DLC characters are an exception, they have the same jumps as their non-DLC counterparts).
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Can King be a good anchor character? I've been seeing some players placing her last sometimes.
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Can King be a good anchor character? I've been seeing some players placing her last sometimes.
Really? with what strategy behind? imho no, she shine on point with her zoning ability (venom strike plus long heavy normals) and last point, she lacks of a good "easy land one hit and win combo" like others well knowed have hwa/shen/iori/karate/takuma/kim/others with full HD and 4 or 5 bars.
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Really? with what strategy behind? imho no, she shine on point with her zoning ability (venom strike plus long heavy normals) and last point, she lacks of a good "easy land one hit and win combo" like others well knowed have hwa/shen/iori/karate/takuma/kim/others with full HD and 4 or 5 bars.
Most recently Huevo has been putting King anchor as shown in the Japanowa GF vid.
I honestly think she's put last simply because she has the ability to snuff out the momentum the opponent has built up. She also seems to do very very well against the anchors you normally meet, in my honest opinion.
So really, she's not meant to kill you in one hit, she's really meant to stop the opponent's momentum and give yourself time to breathe; there's a reason why you're down to the last character, after all.
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I haven't been working too actively on uses for King's Neomax, but I'll get around to it some more in August and try to document the useful punishes. Tried some punishes out against Kim again last night. Seems the most valuable ones are against blockstrings ending in stand B (almost always 15 hits) and ground EX Hangetsuzan (almost always 16 hits regardless of distance! Woo!).
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^ That would be very useful. I think we talked about this earlier in this thread. But I will jot down some punishes as well.
Do you think it's economically worth it (meter concerns) to punish with a NeoMax, though?
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I'm fine with it if 1) it has the opportunity to end the round, and 2) can legitimately serve as a deterrent to doing something. After all some people get great use out of Neomaxes (Mai, Kyo, Benimaru come to mind) simply because it prevents actions or movement.
The other thing that appeals to me is it has the ability to punish moves no one else can punish. Do you know how how many people would kill for a chance to punish EX Hangetsuzan? That's enough reason for me to look into it.
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Btw man, this is something I caught in the wiki that I deleted because it sounds fishy and when testing it, didn't work for me.
"Superflash/timefreeze does not occur until the peak of the jump, and therefore can be interrupted before the move executes. If interrupted in this way, no meter is spent"
????
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Btw man, this is something I caught in the wiki that I deleted because it sounds fishy and when testing it, didn't work for me.
"Superflash/timefreeze does not occur until the peak of the jump, and therefore can be interrupted before the move executes. If interrupted in this way, no meter is spent"
????
That doesn't sound right to me at all. Maybe that statement was true in the arcade version and the wiki never got updated?
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Hi all,
I'm a KOF newbie and recently picked up King (to replace Athena).
Anyways a quick execution question regarding her HD combos. The following example is from the wiki:
j.C, cl.D, df+D [HD] cl.D, [dp+K, [HDC] hcb+B]×4, hcb+D, qcfx2+AC = 689 dmg
I can get this combo up until the HCB+D; I can't see to land it after a HCB+B. Any tips here? Is it any type of cancel, or just a normal corner juggle? It either doesn't seem to come out at all, or comes out too late and whiffs. I'm also struggling at just landing a naked (HD mode) HCB+D, Ex Surprise Rose. Can I buffer the QCF while she's in the air, or it all has to be done once her feet land?
Any help appreciated here guys. I was pretty pumped when I reached my first milestone (landing 4 HDC in a row). So I'm keen to get the rest of it down so I actually have a HD-capable character :)
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The hcb+B, hcb+D is a link, but it only works when you're canceling into hcb+B from trap shot (dp+kick). Do the motion early and when you press the button, hold it down. When you hold the button down on special move links, it repeats the inputs for you and you don't have to time it.
Just go practice dp+K (or EX) into hcb+B, hcb+D, qcf qcf+AC in the corner. Do the motion early and hold the button down.
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The hcb+B, hcb+D is a link, but it only works when you're canceling into hcb+B from trap shot (dp+kick). Do the motion early and when you press the button, hold it down. When you hold the button down on special move links, it repeats the inputs for you and you don't have to time it.
Just go practice dp+K (or EX) into hcb+B, hcb+D, qcf qcf+AC in the corner. Do the motion early and hold the button down.
Thanks for the reply mechanica. To clarify:
DP+K [HDC] HCB+B (then enter HCB+D early and hold D)?
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The hcb+B, hcb+D is a link, but it only works when you're canceling into hcb+B from trap shot (dp+kick). Do the motion early and when you press the button, hold it down. When you hold the button down on special move links, it repeats the inputs for you and you don't have to time it.
Just go practice dp+K (or EX) into hcb+B, hcb+D, qcf qcf+AC in the corner. Do the motion early and hold the button down.
Thanks for the reply mechanica. To clarify:
DP+K [HDC] HCB+B (then enter HCB+D early and hold D)?
That's right. Holding D guarantees you that hcb+D will be executed. Double-tap works as well.
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I have kind of an odd question, not sure if this is the right place for it really...
I was watching Juicebox's stream a few weeks ago and someone said in the chat that there's a King stun combo... and that it involves a metric assload of 1f links or something. When I asked where this combo could be seen being performed, he said it was in one of the community combo vids somewhere, apparently in one focused on stun combos. However, I could not locate such a video, none of the ones I found were focused on stun combos (within the "Community combo movie" videos I saw there were some stun setups, but no videos wherein all the combos were stun setups, let alone a video containing a King stun combo)
Was this guy just trolling hard, or is there actually a stun combo with King? When I ask myself how exactly King's moveset and combo routes could possibly proceed in such a way as to form a stun combo, nothing really adds up in my head so I assume it's impossible. Thus, if there were one there'd have to be something new for me to learn about her in order for me to understand it, so I'm kind of curious as to whether it's true or not.
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I have kind of an odd question, not sure if this is the right place for it really...
I was watching Juicebox's stream a few weeks ago and someone said in the chat that there's a King stun combo... and that it involves a metric assload of 1f links or something. When I asked where this combo could be seen being performed, he said it was in one of the community combo vids somewhere, apparently in one focused on stun combos. However, I could not locate such a video, none of the ones I found were focused on stun combos (within the "Community combo movie" videos I saw there were some stun setups, but no videos wherein all the combos were stun setups, let alone a video containing a King stun combo)
Was this guy just trolling hard, or is there actually a stun combo with King? When I ask myself how exactly King's moveset and combo routes could possibly proceed in such a way as to form a stun combo, nothing really adds up in my head so I assume it's impossible. Thus, if there were one there'd have to be something new for me to learn about her in order for me to understand it, so I'm kind of curious as to whether it's true or not.
TBH I haven't seen it myself yet at all or heard of one but I'm sure it's possible, whether or not it's practical is a point I'm not too sure of.
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Yeah, I'm fairly certain if it exists there's not really much point to being able to do it outside of having access to ultimate swag power, as it's likely either impossible to execute/not enough damage for the meter requirements, or both of those things. As I said though, mainly I'm curious because my knowledge of her moveset necessitates that it must involve something I wasn't already aware she could do, and that intrigues me.
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She currently doesn't have a stun combo and she isn't even on any of our minds as a character with stun combo potential.
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Well, I guess that answers my question... I was right after all :p Thanks!
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Cool King CMV is cool.
Kof XIII King CMV - Elegently Simple (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIAnk9L1NlM#)
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KOF XIII - King: Trap Shot trade confirm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBsCaE7ajg4#ws)
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So I saw this video on the front page some time ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a543QXzYHW8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a543QXzYHW8)
One of the things I noticed was the liberal use of Double Strike. After watching that video, I was convinced that Double Strike is indeed a viable tool for combos. So my questions is: why do tournament players never use that move? I hardly ever see that move be used in competitive play.
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So I saw this video on the front page some time ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a543QXzYHW8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a543QXzYHW8)
One of the things I noticed was the liberal use of Double Strike. After watching that video, I was convinced that Double Strike is indeed a viable tool for combos. So my questions is: why do tournament players never use that move? I hardly ever see that move be used in competitive play.
Double Strike is used in competitive play when players use King, but in order to use it outside of combos, there has to be some type of read on what the opponent's move is going to be to utilize it that way. Typically it's not fast enough in cases where other moves would be used in those situations to do the same thing, if not better.
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So I was wondering if anyone had any advice on Drive Canceling her dp+K to hcb+K (sorry if this has already been asked, I didn't read the whole thread)
I can't seem to ever do the cancel reliably... maybe 1 out of every 10 tries. I must have the timing off or something. Any tricks to getting this to work? I noticed if I do the EX version of Trap Shot, I can cancel to the hcb+K much easier by starting my motion near the end of the animation, but the same doesn't seem to hold true for B or D versions when I try the same timing.
I kinda wanted to practice doing a loop (dp+D [HDC] hcb+B) but the inability to reliably do the cancel has me drop it all the time. The furthest I've ever gotten was: s.D > df+D > dp+D > hcb+B > dp+D and then it doesn't cancel again.
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It's a very easy cancel that should come with a little bit of practice. However, one thing that can make it a little easier is holding the kick button after the HCB motion.
I saw your other posts and added you on steam. I am not that good at the game but I know all of the basics. If you need any help send me a line.
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It's a very easy cancel that should come with a little bit of practice. However, one thing that can make it a little easier is holding the kick button after the HCB motion.
I saw your other posts and added you on steam. I am not that good at the game but I know all of the basics. If you need any help send me a line.
You're so right. It's super easy if you hold it down. Now I can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swtxYviWRoE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swtxYviWRoE) I mean... it's probably not an especially good combo... but it's the best I've ever done in KoF before so yeah >.>
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hi, i got problems canceling df D in trap shot.
sometimes it workslike a charme, sometimes i can't get it to work.
It doesn't matter if i'm comboing the slide from other normals, sometimes it works, sometimes not.
Is there a strict timing, is it char specific, or are there circumstances when this cancel does not work?
I can't figure it out
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In order to connect trapshot canceled from df+D, you need to cancel it a little later into the slide's active frames. That is, add just a slight pause before you cancel into trapshot, that way King will slide deeper into the opponent, and trapshot will be able to reach them.
This is the common way to do King's 2 meter HD combo, since it does slightly better damage than going immediately into B tornado kick. However, for non-HD combos there's basically no reason to ever go directly into trapshot with a combo.
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thanks, that is the exact combo i'm trying to learn. :)
usually i do specials the as fast as i can and use the button hold trick to make sure that i won't drop my combo.
the timing is a bit weird, i guess it's just a matter of practice.
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So, since there's not a matchup thread for King, how do you handle the Athena matchup? "Don't throw Venom Strikes" seems like a bad idea for King in just about any matchup, but those damn reflectors wreak havoc on any attempts to throw some fireballs. One of the guys on my Steam list, in particular, has a habit of just repeatedly buffering in the motion and hitting the button when he sees a fireball, and it pretty much just paralyzes me when I see him do it.
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So, since there's not a matchup thread for King, how do you handle the Athena matchup? "Don't throw Venom Strikes" seems like a bad idea for King in just about any matchup, but those damn reflectors wreak havoc on any attempts to throw some fireballs. One of the guys on my Steam list, in particular, has a habit of just repeatedly buffering in the motion and hitting the button when he sees a fireball, and it pretty much just paralyzes me when I see him do it.
Try this, use stand CD as a Venom Strike fake since it sorta looks like the animation a little bit. If he keeps trying to reflect your fireballs re-actively, make sure you have a stock or two and use ex HCB+K that is invincible and can go through fireballs and that reflector. Also, you may want to slow try to invade Athena's close range space a bit, and annoy him by neutral jumping when he does his Psycho ball whenever you are far away. All of that will require some patience from you.
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Another King question -- if I know that someone is going to sit and block at start of round, do I have anything better to do than slow fireball? I tried a run-up throw once in that situation (I had faced this same player at least a dozen games in a row and he downbacked at start of round each game, so I knew he was going to block), but the run-up took long enough that he was able to react with some cr.Bs.
Also, in general, how much should I be trying to do traditional keep-away zoning vs. using fireballs as a setup to go on the rushdown? In Juicebox's video, he makes it sound like I should mainly be doing the latter, but watching Korean King players, they always seem to focus on more traditional zoning.
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Another King question -- if I know that someone is going to sit and block at start of round, do I have anything better to do than slow fireball? I tried a run-up throw once in that situation (I had faced this same player at least a dozen games in a row and he downbacked at start of round each game, so I knew he was going to block), but the run-up took long enough that he was able to react with some cr.Bs.
Also, in general, how much should I be trying to do traditional keep-away zoning vs. using fireballs as a setup to go on the rushdown? In Juicebox's video, he makes it sound like I should mainly be doing the latter, but watching Korean King players, they always seem to focus on more traditional zoning.
Try both playstyles each round and see which one you are more comfortable with and which once annoys the opponent more.
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https://youtu.be/2JGEeHdSsJo
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why do that over regular surprise rose ender?
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why do that over regular surprise rose ender?
Woohoo, late as fuck reply: in those situational cases where you don't have enough meter to do EX Surprise Rose, but would build enough meter with the 2 extra venom strikes to get the Double Strike.