Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Iori Yagami (Claw) => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 06:08:31 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/iori_01.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
Sakahagi - ;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d
Command Normals
Yumebiki - ;fd + ;a , ;a
Yuri Ori - ;bk + ;b in air
Kui - ;df + ;c
Special Attacks
Nueuchi - ;dp + ;a / ;c *
Shogetsu - ;qcb + ;a / ;c *
Akegarasu - ;qcb + ;b / ;d *
Tsuchitsubaki - ;hcf + ;a /;c close *
Desperation Moves
Maiden Masher - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a / ;c *
Neomax
Yatagarasu - ;qcf x 2+ ;b + ;d
Iori's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Iori_Yagami_(XIII)).
Console changes:
* Geshiki Kui (df + C) has a larger hitbox than before. Easier to attack opponent from his command throw.
* Fierce Shogetsu (qcb+P) moves more forward. It combos in most situations after close C> Yumebiki(forward + A A).
* Yaotome (including EX) can’t be saferolled after it hits.
* EX Shogetsu’s invinciblity has been taken out. However, he’s still invincible on his legs.
- Fierce Akegarasu (qcb+K) has shorter recovery when blocked. Can’t be punished with normal moves.
Producer Yamamoto says: With Fierce Shogetsu’s longer reach and Fierce Akegarasu’s shorter recovery, it’s easier to do strings and combos. His Yaotome can’t be saferolled so attacking on wakeups may become important. With his EX Akegarasu’s projectile invincibility and EX Yaotome’s long invincibility, we’ve designed him to be playable in a different style from Flame Iori. Enjoy this Claw Iori that’s a bit different from the arcade version.
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Reserved
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Reserved
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What's up with the lock on the old thread?
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Just ushering people into the new threads. The old threads contain a lot of arcade information which is no longer accurate.
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What's the BnB HD corner carry? I know when you're close to the corner you do dp+A HDC qcb+B HDC dp+C then [dp+C, qcb+B] loop in corner, but what if you do if you're too far for that?
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Mid-screen, you could always do his [qcb+B (HDC) qcb+C (one hit)] loop. Unfortunately, it doesn't carry the opponent very far, but it's the only one I know of.
Small correction, but the beginning of his corner HD combo is dp+A (HDC) qcb+D (HDC) dp+C.
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it seems to me that if you do something like qbc+B (HDC) qcb+AC, [dp+A (HDC) qcb+B(maybe D)] with [...] looped, it should carry them pretty well. I'm pretty sure it carries better than [qcb+B (HDC) qcb+C (one hit)] looped, anyway. I don't know if using the qbc+AC is really worth the meter, but it definitely pushes them pretty far and gets them up high enough to follow with dp+A without using HDC
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This guy's video is amazing
KOF XIII Iori Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1iwR7PM1gE#ws)
Best video to watch and have some decent bnb
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thats a pretty good combo vid it shows a great way to show your best options with certain amounts of meter.
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it definitely taught me some new things to do in the corner without using HD. I didn't realize you could do so many qcb+A in a row. Pretty good that you can get easy 500-600+ in the corner without HD, using only 1 or 2 stocks and a drive
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Repost from old thread, from Ash/CMD Duc:
(Pressure)
I just run in with d.B, d.A, and press forward getting ready for forward+A. If the d.B hits, then I press A and continue. For dash s.C, I just run in and see if the opponent is doing something and may get hit then I'll do forward A if I feel it's gonna hit.
(Jump-ins)
j.A - Up close fast air attack (air to air or ground)
j.B - far distance air to air, use like a poke
j.C - Up close slow but low hitting air attack - good against people who like to d.A anti air
j.D - far distance / air to air
j.CD - against people who use d.C and for super long block stun
(Mixups)
Yeah if they're able to block most of the things I do I'll go for grab/crossup/frame trap.
The best setup is using close stand B first then either
- stand C link
- stand C frame trap (slightly late s.C)
- command throw / regular throw
- another jump attack or cross up
- s.A, s.B then far s.D for poking
Cross ups are harder in console in that you can't hop over a standing opponent in console. So I use it a lot less now.
(Basic offense)
Most important thing is to poke with s.B and s.D and j.B or D at it's max range to harass if you have trouble getting in. You have to really know his normals well. When you can get in, j.Cs and d.B, d.A pressure until you can hit confirm. Also manage your meter wisely meaning go for only combos using just super meter or just HD. Use both if it's for the kill. I tend to use only standard combos or HD combos. Standard combo would be s.C, f+A, qcb+C, super (or d.B, d.A as starter).
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I'm tempted to run Claw Iori in either a back up team or my main. I like his offense, and I like how easily he can combo into his grab, and I think he has the easiest Hyper Drive combos.
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as somebody with fairly sloppy inputs, one of my favourite things about claw Iori is that I never accidentally get DMs when doing drive cancels with him.
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came up with a quick character kill setup out of one of the trial mode combos + hyperdrive
HyperDrive, crouch ;b, ;a, ;fd ;a, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b, Drive Cancel ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;c, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;d, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ;d
I think it was trial 3 or 4, that drive cancel is a very nice way into the command throw. this costs 3 bars and I saw it doing at least 75% health with the right timing; get in, do a short combo, yatagarasu makes the kill.
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shouldn't your combo only take 2 bars, since you're using Yatagarasu during HD mode? I didn't see any other EX moves or supers in it
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hm. I think I was thinking of ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b ;d on that last slash.
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came up with a quick character kill setup out of one of the trial mode combos + hyperdrive
HyperDrive, crouch ;b, ;a, ;fd ;a, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b, Drive Cancel ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;c, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;d, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ;d
I think it was trial 3 or 4, that drive cancel is a very nice way into the command throw. this costs 3 bars and I saw it doing at least 75% health with the right timing; get in, do a short combo, yatagarasu makes the kill.
True but, for beginners I think vs. people who enjoy holding down back. Though for beginners his HD akegarasu into shougetsu rekas will lead to the same amount of damage without using his neo max. Actually, while in HD mode ending his rekas into his command throw with ;dn ;db ;bk + ;d then yaotome (level 1 super) should get you about 75% damage.
BTW most people already know but, if anyone doesn't vs. projectile happy people; EX Akegarasu ( ;dn ;db ;bk ;b + ;d) will go through projectiles. It will not travel full screen distance, best used at half screen. So it's good if you can bait out projectiles, also has combo potential if used in corner, but will require you to sacrifice some stock and, meter (but the damage is worth it.)
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wow, good stuff. I haven't thought much of projectile beat-outs on my moves yet because I've been relying on the rest of the KoF system as of yet to get through that (IE 4 jump options and a roll), I honestly wouldn't have known. I only just recently thought of the fact that ;dn ;df ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;a ;c might be projectile invincible.
execution-wise I think the referenced combo comes out eaiser then DCing those ;dn ;db ;bk ;c s into ;dn ;db ;bk ;b s, the timing on the cancel actually gets a little tight and I prefer this one for ease of execution, even if it's wasteful by one more meter.
also, enjoy a wasteful lol-combo, hyperdrive, in the corner;
hyperdrive, ( ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, drive cancel
;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;c ) 4x, ;dn ;df ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;c.
DISRESPECTFUL
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In my experience, EX akegarasu (qcb+BD) doesn't actually go through projectiles. It might go through them on start up, but I've done it from mid screen to try and safely close distance on someone, and they hit me with a FB after I had started the move. To be fair, it may have been an EX fireball, I can't remember, but it definitely seems to me that "EX akegarasu has invincibility to fireballs" is highly exaggerated.
Maybe it has weird invincibility where it can only pass through FB already on the screen
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This guy's video is amazing
KOF XIII Iori Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1iwR7PM1gE#ws)
Best video to watch and have some decent bnb
awesome vid.
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In my experience, EX akegarasu (qcb+BD) doesn't actually go through projectiles. It might go through them on start up, but I've done it from mid screen to try and safely close distance on someone, and they hit me with a FB after I had started the move. To be fair, it may have been an EX fireball, I can't remember, but it definitely seems to me that "EX akegarasu has invincibility to fireballs" is highly exaggerated.
Maybe it has weird invincibility where it can only pass through FB already on the screen
The EX version of the running slash only has LOWER BODY invincibility. So use it to close in on ground fireballs, but you will get hit with non ground fireballs every time.
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The EX version of the running slash only has LOWER BODY invincibility. So use it to close in on ground fireballs, but you will get hit with non ground fireballs every time.
good to know. Thanks. I thought I had read that EX shogetsu has lower body invicibility as well, but maybe I'm mistaken
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;dn ;db ;bk + ;b ;d has startup invulnerability. ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a/ ;c has lower body invulnerability.
EDIT: The lower body invulnerability is pretty small. Any sweep that's angled even remotely upward (like Iori's) will catch him.
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In my experience, EX akegarasu (qcb+BD) doesn't actually go through projectiles.To be fair, it may have been an EX fireball, I can't remember, but it definitely seems to me that "EX akegarasu has invincibility to fireballs" is highly exaggerated. Maybe it has weird invincibility where it can only pass through FB already on the screen
The EX version of the running slash only has LOWER BODY invincibility. So use it to close in on ground fireballs, but you will get hit with non ground fireballs every time.
Are you guys sure about that? Or is this one of those hidden nerfs? 47:26
[spoiler]http://youtu.be/MFujoEbE7Eo?t=47m26s[/spoiler]
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EX Akegarasu does go through projectiles and hasn't been changed in the console version. I've used it in matches and it works fine.
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Yeah, I was straight up wrong. The EX dash'n'slash goes through projectiles but has no invulnerability otherwise. I think the problem other people and myself are having is that we think the move goes farther and thus h as more invulnerability time than it actually does.
EDIT: Aha. Found the issue. The projectile invulnerability lasts about half as long as the move itself. The dash goes a bit more than half screen but the invulnerability lasts for about 1/4 - 1/3 of the screen.
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Yeah, I was straight up wrong. The EX dash'n'slash goes through projectiles but has no invulnerability otherwise. I think the problem other people and myself are having is that we think the move goes farther and thus h as more invulnerability time than it actually does.
EDIT: Aha. Found the issue. The projectile invulnerability lasts about half as long as the move itself. The dash goes a bit more than half screen but the invulnerability lasts for about 1/4 - 1/3 of the screen.
Thanks for clearing it up. It was inconsistent as an anti-projectile move for me, and now I know why haha
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Any opinions on consistent anti-air for Iori? I keep (somewhat stupidly) trying to use dp+A or dp+C which both seem to be terribly slow on start up, and get beat by basically anything, as long as it is already on the screen. is cr.C or cl.C decent? I've also tried cl.D a bit, as well as trying to use qcb+A, but it seems to be too slow to do much of anything.
Obviously its possible to use EX ya otome as anti air, but it's a lot of meter to burn just to punish a jump in, and the timing to actually hit most things is a bit tight. Same thing goes for a naked neomax, it just seems like a lot of meter
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You can try neutral jump or hop B. The horizontal range is good, and its quick, and its good for zoning against those who like to hop towards you from half screen. You can also zone carefully with far B to catch people trying to jump at you from mid-range randomly. s.C (aka cl.C) is good against those whom are at close range trying to jump over your head or to catch some empty jump throw attempts.
But most of all, nothing is wrong with just blocking...
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dp+A is very fast... it's just picky about where the enemies have to be in order to hit. the EX dp+AC is upper body invulnerable, so you could use that if they're not trying to cross you up, and if they're high up enough you can get a combo from it. close C and close D are fine anti airs too, but yeah Iori has no trouble with just blocking. He has many tools to turn an enemy's pressure into a combo for him. I know crouch C LOOKS like a good anti air... but I'm pretty sure that most jump-ins will snuff it.
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Crouch C is ghetto as hell. It doesn't cover the space above your head.
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I've noticed that standing (close) C has really good coverage over the top of Iori's head, so it's good against people who try and jump over him a lot. I will have to further explore this idea of just blocking jump in attacks...
My main problem with using dp+A/C is the previously mentioned weird hitbox, and how horrible it is when it magically wiffs. I think it really must be his worst move, overall, by far...hitbox issues (it will go over smaller character's heads if they are standing right next to you and I'm sure that everybody can just duck it), bad recovery on wiff, and horrible on block. Is there a worse dp in the game?
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It's not really a DP and shouldn't be considered one. The attack angle is super weird and has terrible startup. In my mind, iori doesn't have an actual DP to anti air with outside of close C. I suppose if you anticipate a jumpin, you can nail them with dp, but... I wouldn't lol. Just block those jumpins and deal with it.
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I nail plenty of hops on reaction with the dp+A, it comes out extremely fast and it does have great priority. But I suppose I played lots of XII compared to most people, so I'm fairly used to its strange hitbox by now. I think it's a fairly decent anti air, but it does take getting used to.
His best anti air is easily the EX dp+AC, it's his only viable upper body invulnerable option. Without meter, Iori lacks anti air a little bit, but close C and close D will trade with most early jump-ins and beat most combo-able jump-ins.
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I tend to do hop D when I think someone's going to jump at me, but I don't really know what it beats.
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Hop ;b is good. Mixing up with LK or Command Grab up close is a good strategy to try out. If you land the LK. You can hit ( LK,HP, ;fd+ LP, Rekka.) If a grab connect's, you know reset HP blah blah.
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So I came up with this combo while trying to come up with an HD combo off of the magic cross-up kick.
Midscreen: St. C | df. C [HDA] st. C | df. C | qcb B [HDC] qcb C (2 hits) [HDC] DP A [HDC] qcb D [HDC] DP C | juggle EX Maiden Masher | MAX CANCEL
949 dmg, 4 stocks, almost goes corner to corner. Doesn't actually work IN the corner, but there are more damaging combos for that anyway.
Of course, if anyone knows a midscreen 100% combo I'm all ears.
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Yeah, I was straight up wrong. The EX dash'n'slash goes through projectiles but has no invulnerability otherwise. I think the problem other people and myself are having is that we think the move goes farther and thus h as more invulnerability time than it actually does.
EDIT: Aha. Found the issue. The projectile invulnerability lasts about half as long as the move itself. The dash goes a bit more than half screen but the invulnerability lasts for about 1/4 - 1/3 of the screen.
qcb+BD goes through anything wich isnt a physical hit, like Kyo,s orochinagi or neomax, Iori will go through those move not just fireballs/projectiles and the non physical move invulnerability doesnt last long, if you are full screen it will last for half the run, if you are close then boy opponent is getting it.
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So I came up with this combo while trying to come up with an HD combo off of the magic cross-up kick.
Midscreen: St. C | df. C [HDA] st. C | df. C | qcb B [HDC] qcb C (2 hits) [HDC] DP A [HDC] qcb D [HDC] DP C | juggle EX Maiden Masher | MAX CANCEL
949 dmg, 4 stocks, almost goes corner to corner. Doesn't actually work IN the corner, but there are more damaging combos for that anyway.
Of course, if anyone knows a midscreen 100% combo I'm all ears.
How much less damage does it do if you just use normal masher?
The one I use (doesn't have to be directly in the corner, but it has to at least be approaching it) is St. C | df. C [HDA] st. C | df. C | qcb+BD (into corner) qcb+A, (dp+A [HDC] qcb+D)x3 | qcf hcb+A [MC] (qcf)x2+BD.
This does 968 for 4 stocks (998 if you start with jump C).
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My combo does 878 with level 1 masher. Considering the nature of Claw Iori, I don't even know if that's considered good output.
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Dude, that's actually insane amounts of damage.
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Yeah, one meter? Even arcade Betty goes DAMN.
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Damn both of those combos have crazy damage and they aren't terriblely hard either.
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another HD combo I use in the corner when I don't have much meter is (IE not enough to do a MC at the end):
St. C, f+A,A xx qcb+BC (activates HD with special) (2 hits) [HDC] dp+C | (qcb+B [HDC] dp+C)xN | qcb+B, qcf hcb+A/+AC.
I'm not positive on the number of loops of (qcb+B [HDC] dp+C) you can do before you run out of HD. I think its 3 or 4. If you end with EX ya otome the combo does 780. I also can't currently remember if you can add a qcb+A at the end, before the ya otome, but if so, it might add a couple more damage.
It's pretty much a variation on the already-known 1000+ damage HD combo without using the dp+A [HDC] qcb+B [HDC] dp+C starter to get into the qcb+B/dp+C loop (which I personally have trouble hitting consistently after st. C df. C [HD activate] st. C df. C starter), and without using a max cancel at the end.
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Yeah, one meter? Even arcade Betty goes DAMN.
It's 3 stocks since I'm Max Cancelling. Without it it'd be like 650-ish I think. Far as I know, Takuma's still the power stock efficiency king with his 822-damage one-stock HD combo.
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Yeah, I noticed after I posted, but I was too lazy to edit it. Still, for 3 meters, it's pretty good damage.
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after some more work, I've found a pretty good HD combo that is 100% from mid-screen(ish) that is pretty easy...
jump C, cl.C, df+C [HDA] cl.C, df+C, qcb+B [HDC] qcb+BD (should now be in the corner), (dp+A [HDC] qcb+D)x3, qcf hcb+A [MC] (qcf)x2+BD
does 1014 (984 with no jump in) for 4 stocks. The timing is a bit tight, as the HD bar runs out pretty much just when you are able to cancel, so you have to be right on with the max cancel. If you miss it, it still does 774 for 2 stocks. Changing to EX ya otome probably makes it do around 825 with no max cancel.
I find this one a little bit tougher to do than the other one I posted (998 for 4 stocks), but this one definitely carries them farther. It gets them into the corner from the round starting position, and maybe as far as the dead center of the screen.
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Damn hiltzy, you really hate DP+A [HDC] qcb+D [HDC] DP+C. Definitely gotta applaud the ingenuity required to get a 100% combo with a level 1 Maiden Masher.
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Hey guys !
When you throw the oppenent into the corner, you can go into qcbB [!] dpC classic max mode mega loop, but what do you do if you throw him into the midscreen ?
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Hey guys !
When you throw the oppenent into the corner, you can go into qcbB [!] dpC classic max mode mega loop, but what do you do if you throw him into the midscreen ?
Actually doing a command throw to the opponent into the corner, the best combo follow up would be dp+C > qcb+B > qcb+A > dp+A or super
Midscreen you would just do qcb+K, then super if you have it.
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Oops, forgot to say i was talking about max mode :(
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Oops, forgot to say i was talking about max mode :(
I'm not sure that there is much you can do, in terms of long combos from command grabbing them into the middle of the screen in HD mode. I know for sure you can do dash, dp+C, super (max cancel). If you don't want to dash, you can do dp+C, EX super (max cancel). I think you can also do qcb+D [HDC] dp+C, super.
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Hey guys hope u can use this combos...the combos are fun a not to hard to do..hope u like
Iori Kof XIII combos bala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ODTZFspwQM#)
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Interesting. I always overlook the mid-juggle df. C.
If it's not inconvenient, would you mind posting a transcript of the combos?
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I'm only going to transcribe the last two combos in the video.
j.C, s.C, df+C, HD, s.C, df+C xx DP+A, [HDC] QCB+B [HDC] DP+C, df+C xx DP+C, QCB+B, [HDC] DP+C, QCB+B [HDC] DP+C, QCB+B, QCB+A, DP+A, Neo Max
j.C, s.C, df+C, HD, s.C, df+C xx DP+A, [HDC] QCB+B [HDC] DP+C, df+C xx DP+C, QCB+B [HDC] DP+C, QCB+B, QCB+A, QCF, HCB+A, Neo Max
What I've noticed when doing these combos, is that the juggle df+C doesn't seem to connect if your right next to the opponent in the corner. It could just be me but whenever I'm just outside of the corner I have no problems landing the juggle df+C. If someone could verify this for me I would greatly appreciate it. Otherwise, for a midscreen-to-corner HD combo this is excellent. 931 damage and a 100% for 2 and 3 meters, respectively, is incredible.
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I feel like a punk now so I transcribed the first combo. Keep in mind I'm a talentless fraud who can't actually complete the whole combo, so this is kind of assembled from what I know from trial mode and doing parts of it. I think it's accurate though.
Cross-up J.C, st.B, hcf+P, DP+C, df+C xx HD, DP+A [HDC] qcb+b, qcb+A, DP+A [HDC] qcb+D, (qcb+B [HDC] DP+C) x3, Neo Max
The first part of the HD is reminiscent of Trial 7. The rest is just a regular loop.
This may also be the fraudulence, but I can't connect the juggle df+C when too close either. I think the hitbox may only be contained in the fist, so it's kind of just going through the guy.
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some basic better sound off, bad english
King of Fighters XIII - Iori Basic Tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1qM6QwSGHs#ws)
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my go-to HD combo approaching the corner now seems to be as follows:
j.C, st.C, df+C [HD] st.C. df+C, qcb+b [HDC] qcb+C [HDC] dp+C, (qcb+B [HDC] dp+C)x3, qcb+B [HDC] (qcf)x2+BD
This does 885 for 2 stocks. Getting the neomax at the end after the qcb+B can be a bit tight, so if you notice that you're already out of HD mode, just do qcb+A and then DM or EX DM for a little bit less damage (probably like high 700s).
The best 1 bar that I've come up with is the same as above, but instead of NM at the end, do another dp+C, HD should end, then do qcb+B, qcb+A, DM for 833 for 1 stock. When you're doing this correctly, the last HD cancel should come out when you basically have zero meter left. I think the timing issue comes down to how sharp you are in the beginning, before the big loop.
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Can somebody speculate on things that punish blocked qcb+B? It seems to be pretty safe (although qcb+D is apparently safer), but I read on the frame data thread that it's like -4. I guess it probably pushes back far enough that a lot of things can't hit him after it.
Another question...has anybody tested trying to use qcb+D at the end of blocked strings, like s.C, df+C or s.C, f+A,A? is it slow enough that a lot of characters can hit you out of it? Or is it more like 1f grabs can get you and not much else?
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Alright, 899 damage, 2 stock HD combo...
Approaching corner j.C, s.C, df+C [HDA] s.C, df+C, dp+A [HDC] qcb+D [HDC] dp+C, qcb+D [HDC] dp+C, (qcb+B [HDC] dp+C)x2, qcb+B [HDC] (qcf)x2+BD. pretty easy
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Irori metadata upped on wiki:
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Iori_Yagami_(XIII)#Move_Metadata (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Iori_Yagami_(XIII)#Move_Metadata)
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Damn, we arrived at the same exact place XD ^nice
Seeing that reminded me of the death combo I saw from Dune a while back:
And this is crazy easy from mid screen. Only tricky part is the end. Found that you should do the qcfx2+BD and hold BD just as you're running out of meter. Works like a charm.
j.C, s.C, df.C, [HD]s.C, df.C, dp+A, {[HDC]qcb+B, [HDC]dp+C}x2, qcb+B, qcf~hcb+P, [MC]qcfx2+BD = 1003
(25:10 or so)
KOF XIII KCE public video #333, Basic Introduction, Iori, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtUJBs8HhAQ#)
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Ok Idk if this goes here or not but I figured it's worth a shot. How in the hell do you fight chin!?
I have 0 idea of how to even approach him with Iori! I'd really appreciate some help.
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Although not a ton of exposure, I've had good matchups against chin bc I'm often using chrs like Joe with a ground fb to better control him. I don't have a ton of trouble with other chrs as I've gotten used to his overhead - but again not a ton of exposure.
claw iori? idk, I might use ex cmd throw after blocking his hcf+K, but I think iori's taco is a pretty good move for catching even squat chrs like chin. Just started picking up claw iori and haven't really had that matchup yet.
Perhaps someone better versed in iori could add here.
Or we could always ask our resident chin expert, Kane for his opinion.
@Kane317, what can iori do to....errr...have you had trouble against any ioris of late? ;)
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Although not a ton of exposure, I've had good matchups against chin bc I'm often using chrs like Joe with a ground fb to better control him. I don't have a ton of trouble with other chrs as I've gotten used to his overhead - but again not a ton of exposure.
claw iori? idk, I might use ex cmd throw after blocking his hcf+K, but I think iori's taco is a pretty good move for catching even squat chrs like chin. Just started picking up claw iori and haven't really had that matchup yet.
Perhaps someone better versed in iori could add here.
Or we could always ask our resident chin expert, Kane for his opinion.
@Kane317, what can iori do to....errr...have you had trouble against any ioris of late? ;)
Hell yes Claw gives me a hard time, doesn't he give everyone a hard time? Most of the Claws here in SoCal plays him anchor so you have to be EXTRA careful to not get one-shotted by his HD combos.
Max distance s.Bs dash repeats gives Chin a hard time. I would either have to s.A him back or commit to a qcb B counter but the problem with that is, the counter makes him walk backwards so it's incredibly tricky/risky to time. With Iori's dash speed in mind, he can convert a simple whiff counter for some good damage (don't forget his s.B is SC-only'able and you can even just do for qcf B, hcb P as he has not qcf K move).
His hop speed is also so damn fast it's perfect for baiting out counters but since Chin cannot control much vertical space above him his, crossups are very difficult to deal with. The only thing I've learned recently to do is to do Chin's qcb C move the opposite direction just as Iori jumps over you but you have to be really fast and I've misjudged it before thinking he'd go for the crossup and instead I walk towards them and eat a combo.
Anytime Chin drinks and you're 70% of the screen away let an Ex DM rip and that'll make him think twice about drinking.
You most likely will not be able to punish his hcf K with Iori's command grab because Chin's hcf K is free cancelable into any special. Safest special for him to cancel into is his counter and of course you can Ex DM him. The other thing he likes to cancel into is his df B (hop thing fake Kyo kick thing) which leaves Chin at -3F so even your Ex hcf P won't get him in time (5F); just use s.C (3F), normal throw him or do an invincible move like Ex DP.
Lastly, personally I tend to eat a lot of dash in d.B, d.A, f.A, HD...combos, especially if they d.B, stagger d.B dash d.B etc....after doing a lot of crossup mix ups.
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The detailed (and forthcoming) write-up much appreciated Kane :D
Great showing at MLG btw
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Do you guys feel that Claw can work well as a battery? Right now I'm using EX Iori, but I honestly like Claw a lot better. It's just that I want Iori and those normals as a battery.
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Not really a battery but you can play him 1 or 2 if you will. If you win the first round with iori as 1 you just need an opening to kills his 2 or at least you use your hd to make a comeback against their 1.
Once you have a good anchor you can run Iori at every place you want, I know one player who is playing iori/duo/takuma one other kyo/iori/shen (scariest team ever trust me).
Just be careful some matchs up might give him troubles meterless (I think about Robert/Kensou, but I'm not playing him it's just observations).
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You're probably better off with Flame Iori if you want him as a battery. He just has way more meterless tools.
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Claw iori doesn't have an invincible dp without meter.
He has a better SDM (especially the normal one with his insane safe jump), more damaging combos.
Flame Iori optimized combo require more execution (Command throw hd and empty cancels).
His qcf.C is just insane. 3f invincible move is always nice.
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I haven't looked at the frame data for both of their command overheads yet, but I would give the edge to Claw for the better overhead option. First of all, both of them are only able to follow up after their overheads with HD activation, and Claw obviously gets more damage from that. I would also say that I find Claw's overhead harder to read (again, I don't know which one is actually faster), due to the animation actually strangely looking like his close standing B at the startup, which may occasionally cause someone to block low. Flame's f+B also looks pretty obvious. It looks nothing like any of his other attacks.
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Flame Iori optimized combo require more execution (Command throw hd and empty cancels).
His qcf.C is just insane. 3f invincible move is always nice.
Did you mean his qcf~hcb+AC is insane? Coz that's the 3F one...
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Regarding the Claw vs Flame debate I've been given this topic a lot of thought lately and been bouncing some ideas off the SoCal peeps. Especially when a lot of the Asian tier charts claim Flame is #1 (over Mr Karate) I was extremely intrigued with Flame's potential--and I think I understand now.
Honestly, I think they're pretty close now and Flame might even inch a little ahead if used correctly (empty cancels). I used to think it was Claw hands down due to higher damage output, better corner game, safer specials. Flame has better hard knockdowns which means safejump setups, mixups and more frame traps. His empty cancels really make his frame traps shine and although I need to test it out myself, it makes his qcb A feel safe if done correctly or damn near impossible to punish--someone please verify that.
As for the overhead, technically Claw's is slightly faster and slightly safer by 1F (-3 vs -2). Both are pretty safe if blocked.
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I think (s)he means Flame Iori's dp A+C , as his qcf~hcb+AC isn't invincible, and his EX DP is also a 3f.
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Tiny nitpicks:
I haven't looked at the frame data for both of their command overheads yet, but I would give the edge to Claw for the better overhead option. First of all, both of them are only able to follow up after their overheads with HD activation, and Claw obviously gets more damage from that.
This is not even close to true. Both claw and honoo can cancel their overheads into supers and at low levels of scaling, flame iori's supers do more damage. Players are more likely to have 1 or 2 stocks than 100% HD at just about any given point in a match so this is actually very relevant. Although I do agree that ex iori's much easier to react to.
I think (s)he means Flame Iori's dp A+C , as his qcf~hcb+AC isn't invincible, and his EX DP is also a 3f.
You're right. ex ya otome isn't invincible but ex oniyaki is 4f start up. If you're reading 3f somewhere then it probably is listing strictly start up and not counting the actual frame that the move first gains an active hitbox (which is the 4th frame in this case. Thus it cannot punish moves that are -3 or less on block)
Also Kane:
As far as I remember testing early in the discovery of ec-ing, rekkas cannot be empty cancelled on block and the 1st rekka can't be empty cancelled at all with the exception of the ex version's 1st hit.
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but ex oniyaki is 4f start up.
Oh, my bad then. Thanks for telling me~!
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Flame Iori optimized combo require more execution (Command throw hd and empty cancels).
His qcf.C is just insane. 3f invincible move is always nice.
Did you mean his qcf~hcb+AC is insane? Coz that's the 3F one...
I mean qcf.C is insanely fast.
And qcf hcb.AC is 3f (It beated some of my safe jump, so I fought it was invincible but I will retry I might just miss them)
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Tiny nitpicks:
I haven't looked at the frame data for both of their command overheads yet, but I would give the edge to Claw for the better overhead option. First of all, both of them are only able to follow up after their overheads with HD activation, and Claw obviously gets more damage from that.
This is not even close to true. Both claw and honoo can cancel their overheads into supers and at low levels of scaling, flame iori's supers do more damage. Players are more likely to have 1 or 2 stocks than 100% HD at just about any given point in a match so this is actually very relevant. Although I do agree that ex iori's much easier to react to.
Though it's true that you can super cancel the ovrheads, you'd be pretty foolish to do it. Both Ioris are completely punishable after super by a close normal into an HD or whatever. Many characters' meterless B&B combos from a close normal deal more damage than Iori's super. You're totally free if you do this, and you can't really hit confirm from either overhead since it's a cancel. So when you do it, it's a 50/50 guess for you, and the risk versus reward is just nowhere near good enough.
You CAN do it, but you should pretty much NEVER do it.
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Though it's true that you can super cancel the ovrheads, you'd be pretty foolish to do it. Both Ioris are completely punishable after super by a close normal into an HD or whatever. Many characters' meterless B&B combos from a close normal deal more damage than Iori's super. You're totally free if you do this, and you can't really hit confirm from either overhead since it's a cancel. So when you do it, it's a 50/50 guess for you, and the risk versus reward is just nowhere near good enough.
You CAN do it, but you should pretty much NEVER do it.
Would you call reynald foolish for all the times that he's super cancelled ryo's overhead into ryuko ranbu even against, say, bala (who lord knows would punish to the fullest extent possible) which is similarly punishable to a maiden masher but by taking the risk has put the opponent in a much worse spot in terms of health, positioning on screen or characters left? Especially in the case of getting hardknockdown with characters who have strong oki games involving safe jumps, command grabs, good normals, good crossups and lol the possibility of future overheads, all the while the number of times they have to get opened up before they run out of life has just decreased by, as you put it, one "meterless B&B combo from a close normal". which I also have to disagree with, outside of the corner bnbs of say kyo, k', andy, etc. I don't see over 279 (exiori 6b>yamisogi) coming from "many characters" without the corner and a jump-in or spending some sort of resource. I would say that putting the opponent in a position where they're more likely to make mistakes or take risks themselves is pretty damn important. Granted ryo's overhead is 17f iirc and claw and flame are 21 and 24 frame start up respectively but the whole point of overheads is to do them when they are extremely unexpected, in places where the opponent has been conditioned to block low or not press buttons. If you've ever so much as played fighting games before you should have some semblance of a clue as to how often and where you should be throwing out overheads. Remember 3rd strike universal overheads? Couldnt combo off em unless they hit towards the end of their active frames, right? That means it has to be done early during the opponents wake up to make it meaty or has to be spaced correctly far away to make it hit towards the end, giving the opponent more time to react. Universal overheads had 16f start up, to be able to combo of them you'd be giving them anywhere between 22 and 25f start up. And the animation for every single character's uoh is telegraphed enough to react to with parry imho. Despite that risk they definitely weren't seldom used. Look at melty blood. Some overheads are as slow as 30f and usually very telegraphed with a very obvious flash of light plus being an anime game theres even less incentive to sit there and take pressure than kof where there are much less options for once leave the ground. On top of that, the shield/parry system makes it even more risky if the opponent reacts with shields well. On the topic of risks outweighing rewards, if you look at dps that way it would never seem worth it to do one. Especially considering the fact that in addition to getting baited or not, theres always the possibilties of safe jumps, intentional or not. Yet that doesn't stop daigo or valle or poongko or madkof or bala from using their easily punishable/baitable reversals in any of the games that they play or have played. That's just fighting games. Good players don't take just take risks for some paltry damage. You have to look at the aspects outside of that before simply dismissing it. I think not counting something like overhead > super as viable or the idea that its something you "should pretty much never do" is beyond idiotic (that is, i believe the concept is, not you. I mean no offense by saying that and respect that you have your own opinions whether or not I agree)
EDIT: Furthermore ex iori's overhead reaches from f.d range and is cancellable into, the -6, 236236a super which is difficult even at slightly pushed back ranges to punish with a close normal into HD. Which is assuming they have 100% HD in the first place, guarantee either iori has at least 1 stock more often than an opponent has 2 drive bars.
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just wanted to add that claw ioris overhead is def. hitconfirmable into super.
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you can't really hit confirm from either overhead since it's a cancel.
You definitely can. I don't know about Flame Iori's since I never tried, but Claw Iori's overhead can be hitconfirmed into super just fine since you have a lot of time to cancel after it hits.
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Alright, you're right, I shouldn't say NEVER do it, but it shouldn't be done even as often as once in ten matches. Your opponents WILL adapt at that rate, and at 21+ frames of animation, both overheads can actually be VERY easily reacted to, throwing the whole "use it unpredictably" thing out. I mean, I see people react to Claw's throw on startup, and that's only 9f. It's more than twice as fast as Claw's overhead, and nearly 3x as fast as Flame's overhead. The average human being has is able to read and react to an image in 215ms, or 12-13 frames (or 1/5 of a second), so if they get used to seeing that move and don't even have to consider the properties of it after seeing it, then they can instantly react, putting you in an extremely dangerous situation. Someone who's been playing fighting games for 20 years probably has closer to 7-10f reaction time. It means that they could see it and read the specific move twice over before it comes out.
I'll say this though, if you're able to confirm it reliably, then go for it. Claw's overhead is only -2 on block, which just means that you're punishable by only a few characters. If you can't confirm it every time, then it's really not worth it for the meager 270 damage when you're opening yourself up for a free B&B or even HD combo, considering you're at -12 on block. -12 is A LOT in XIII. When you put yourself at -12, Hwa Jai and Takuma, for example, can literally kill you from full health with 1 drive and 1 meter, no HD combo necessary. Most characters can get 500+ for 1+1. On a 50/50 mixup, it's just not worth the risk unless you're going for the kill.
After looking at all the data I may be actually changing my vote for the better overhead to Flame, simply due to the range of it. It makes it impossible to punsh at max range, even for characters with instant grabs.
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Your numbers on reaction times are way off, no one is gonna react to a 9f throw, that is pure anticipation. Lows in tekken that are faster then 23f are usually considered unseeable. Granted there is a lot of other stuff to watch out for in that game so it makes it a bit harder. Another example is Dudleys overhead in 3s. Thats 16f i believe and unseeable as well.
However Claw Ioris OH is def. blockable on reaction haha. Tho you can sneak it in once in a while (like you said, once every ten games or so) and the fact that its confirmable into super or HD makes it pretty decent imo.
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Well you see booper that's where you are wrong people can react to 9 frame throws. For example in AE throws are 3 frames and we use crouch teching and what not to recognize and beat that, but Goukens back throw is 5 and just a simple 2 frame difference allows you to react to said animation.
As For Iori's Overhead It's a lot easier to use than people give it credit for. A meaty Overhead on people's wake up (after a combo into ex maiden masher), also off some anti air situations if your opponent is notorious for blocking low you can time it to where you can easily hit them as the touch the ground, also Iori's overhead share part of the same start up motion as his QCB+K. So, it's actually pretty easy to work into the game because it isn't until iori cocks his arm back over his head that you truly notice the difference.
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Try this :
http://www.teyah.com/milliablocker.html (http://www.teyah.com/milliablocker.html)
You'll understand that under 20f a SPECIFIC move is impossible to react.
You can react to something faster but you can't react after identifying what's going one accurately that fast (ie you can react a jump or a movement, but you can't identify it then react under 20-25f).
If you think you can react at some things faster it's because you're minding them.
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OK, I gotta ask this because it's driving me frigging nuts. I noticed a lot of Claw players able to do this at Evo but I can't seem to pull it off with any reliability.
low B, low A, forward+A, qcb+C... 80% of the time I end up getting Maiden Masher instead of Shogetsu. I've tried interrupting the command by adding an Up after forward+A but I still end up with Maiden Masher the majority of the time. There's gotta be a more reliable shortcut or something... what's the secret? I've finished that string with Akegarasu since release because I can't figure it out.
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OK, I gotta ask this because it's driving me frigging nuts. I noticed a lot of Claw players able to do this at Evo but I can't seem to pull it off with any reliability.
low B, low A, forward+A, qcb+C... 80% of the time I end up getting Maiden Masher instead of Shogetsu. I've tried interrupting the command by adding an Up after forward+A but I still end up with Maiden Masher the majority of the time. There's gotta be a more reliable shortcut or something... what's the secret? I've finished that string with Akegarasu since release because I can't figure it out.
Just watch your sliding, or just go to neutral after f.A before going to qcb. You'll have enough time.
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OK, I gotta ask this because it's driving me frigging nuts. I noticed a lot of Claw players able to do this at Evo but I can't seem to pull it off with any reliability.
low B, low A, forward+A, qcb+C... 80% of the time I end up getting Maiden Masher instead of Shogetsu. I've tried interrupting the command by adding an Up after forward+A but I still end up with Maiden Masher the majority of the time. There's gotta be a more reliable shortcut or something... what's the secret? I've finished that string with Akegarasu since release because I can't figure it out.
Trick is Going Not pushing upback on accident. When you are starting an Offense I reccomend going to down or Down Neutral or Down forward instead of down back. Because What I'm willing to bet you are doing is going down back>accidentally up back> then f+a> Shogetsu. This happens a lot of people doing Iori's hd corner combo with QCB+B> Dp+C.
If you go up at all of the DP+C you get command grab. So just practice it and practice it and you'll get it.
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I'm willing to bet that this isn't new information, but yeah j.C -> cl.C xx df.C xx dp+C -> EX Maiden Masher midscreen is ridiculously easy and fat damage. If you're close enough to the corner regular Maiden Masher will also work, again for really great damage. IIRC, it does a little more than if you would have incorporated f+AA -> qcb+C.
edit:
EX command grab near corner -> hop HD bypass -> dp+A...
people are familiar with this setup right? I think I saw it the first time when Tokido or someone tried doing it at Shadaloo Shodown, and I got refreshed on it recently while watching some Cafe Id casuals of some Claw fucking everyone up. It's really pretty tech.
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How come i have never seen anyone do commandthrow into HD midscreen?
commandthrow, delay df.C HD delay dp.A DC qcb.D, super -> neomax is 800ish
commandthrow, delay df.C HD delay dp.A DC qcb.D DC dp.C, ex super -> neomax works for 2 bars and is around 900 iirc.
This is not too hard once you practice it for a while. Makes claw even more dangerous as an anchor, kills you of any hit. Ill try to cap it when i have time if someone needs a video reference.
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Bopper, that is legit! Not too easy though. It's easier for me to go right into super>NM after the df.c, but if you can get it that extra 100 damage is worth it.
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Idk if anyone is aware, but Iori's qcb+c has lower body invinc. On the wiki it only list ex as having it.
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Thanks for the correction. I tested it out...the invincibility is hella short but its good enough to pass through low B's.
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Actually its not all that short i beat kim's sweep with it, hwa's slide and iori's sweep as well
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Trick is Going Not pushing upback on accident. When you are starting an Offense I reccomend going to down or Down Neutral or Down forward instead of down back. Because What I'm willing to bet you are doing is going down back>accidentally up back> then f+a> Shogetsu. This happens a lot of people doing Iori's hd corner combo with QCB+B> Dp+C.
If you go up at all of the DP+C you get command grab. So just practice it and practice it and you'll get it.
Hi there, thanks for the suggestion. My problem stemmed from initiating the combo from the db position, for example when waiting for a whiffed jump-in or something, I'd be holding db and it would cancel into DM 95% of the time. Starting from df gets rid of the problem completely, but for me at least, there will be times I have to start from a db defensive position. Fortunately my friend told me a simple way to get rid of this problem - instead of doing cr.B, cr.A, f+A, I do cr.B, f+A, f+A. It does the exact same damage, the range is about the same and I no longer get the accidental DM when starting from db.
Just thought I'd post this in case other people were having the same problem. It helps a lot. Thank you Leon!
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Trick is Going Not pushing upback on accident. When you are starting an Offense I reccomend going to down or Down Neutral or Down forward instead of down back. Because What I'm willing to bet you are doing is going down back>accidentally up back> then f+a> Shogetsu. This happens a lot of people doing Iori's hd corner combo with QCB+B> Dp+C.
If you go up at all of the DP+C you get command grab. So just practice it and practice it and you'll get it.
Hi there, thanks for the suggestion. My problem stemmed from initiating the combo from the db position, for example when waiting for a whiffed jump-in or something, I'd be holding db and it would cancel into DM 95% of the time. Starting from df gets rid of the problem completely, but for me at least, there will be times I have to start from a db defensive position. Fortunately my friend told me a simple way to get rid of this problem - instead of doing cr.B, cr.A, f+A, I do cr.B, f+A, f+A. It does the exact same damage, the range is about the same and I no longer get the accidental DM when starting from db.
Just thought I'd post this in case other people were having the same problem. It helps a lot. Thank you Leon!
I just to had this problem back in 2002, after I learned how to play with sanwa stick this problem dissapeared, but I will try that cr.B f+A,f+A for confirms. thanks a lot! =)
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Starting to redo my Iori video and trying new stuff. Found a combo that starts with 0 meter and 2 drive stocks.
jp C, C xx df C xx dp C, dp A xx qcb D, qcb A, qcb A, dp A xx qcb D, qcb A, qcb A, qcf-hcf P 683 damage
You build the meter while performing the combo. Anyone know of a more damaging combo that starts with 0 meter and 2 drive stocks? No HD mode.
Also what's everyone's max damage with HD mode and 2 stocks? I've gotten 916 damage.
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A question about Iori's command grab:
After the "bounce", when you are falling to the ground, are you able to safe roll it?
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A question about Iori's command grab:
After the "bounce", when you are falling to the ground, are you able to safe roll it?
Not sure because I'm to busy doing resets or taking chunks of people's life bar to find out.
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A question about Iori's command grab:
After the "bounce", when you are falling to the ground, are you able to safe roll it?
Not sure because I'm to busy doing resets or taking chunks of people's life bar to find out.
I figured... xD
I only asked that question because I began to wonder what might be the advantages of letting your opponents simply fall, if any. Perhaps that move is just a combo starter after all.
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A question about Iori's command grab:
After the "bounce", when you are falling to the ground, are you able to safe roll it?
Not sure because I'm to busy doing resets or taking chunks of people's life bar to find out.
I figured... xD
I only asked that question because I began to wonder what might be the advantages of letting your opponents simply fall, if any. Perhaps that move is just a combo starter after all.
Well it also has godlike resets to it also. So if you were hoping for a mix up opportunity you can creat mix ups, meaty situations, fuzzy frauds and all kinds of nonsense
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does anyone knows the proper timing for commandthrow, delay df.C? I have the difficulty to do it consistenly, thx.
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does anyone knows the proper timing for commandthrow, delay df.C? I have the difficulty to do it consistenly, thx.
There's no real easy trick to timing it, if you mean meterless cmd throw. You could try holding forward and as soon as iori moves go for it. That may even be too much delay though. Try watching the opponent instead of iori - as they reach the top of the bounce and are coming down... Press it. Find whatever cues work for you.
If you're using EX, I have seen someone use whiff cancel st.CD into dp+C then link df.C.
~
Fun trick: cr.B cr.B qcf+B... If confirmed, hcb+P and you get short short super!
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does anyone knows the proper timing for commandthrow, delay df.C? I have the difficulty to do it consistenly, thx.
in or outside of the corner?
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I need help with Iori's 3 stock HD combo, listed on the wiki (the one that does 1027 damage):
j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+B (DC) dp+C, df+C, dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcb+A, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD
I have trouble connecting the second df+C (the one on the juggle). 80% of tries, I just miss it as if my opponent lands a bit too early.
edit: also, the other 100% 3 stocks HD Iori combo...
j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD - (1003 damage, corner only, carries 1/3rd of screen)
Usually, my HD gauge drops to 0 before I have the chance to do the Neo Max Cancel :S
I can get the rest of the combo most of the times, and every now and then I get enough time to perform the Neo Max Cancel, but the more I practice that combo, the more I get to deal with the problem of my HD meter running out :S
If i try to hurry, I whiff one of the attacks. Help, I really need at least one of those combos
edit2: I finally learned how to do the 1003 damage combo. Button hold trick does the job, by getting most of Iori's specials as early as possible will assure enough time for a NM cancel
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I need help with Iori's 3 stock HD combo, listed on the wiki (the one that does 1027 damage):
j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+B (DC) dp+C, df+C, dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcb+A, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD
I have trouble connecting the second df+C (the one on the juggle). 80% of tries, I just miss it as if my opponent lands a bit too early.
This combo is spacing specific. If you're in/too close to the corner it won't work.
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It works just fine regardless
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Care to explain? How can I ensure that my df+C hits the opponent on the juggle?
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If you're doing the df C too close to the corner, it's going to whiff. As said earlier, it's spacing specific.
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If you're doing the df C too close to the corner, it's going to whiff. As said earlier, it's spacing specific.
no it's not. Lol st c>df+c activate> st c> df+c is not spacing specific he is canceling it while he is too far away from the target he isn't close enough to the person's body so he is getting push back and it's making it whiff he isn't letting the HD slide get him close enough to the person. Don't tell me any it's spacing specific bs because I do this combo all the damn time there is no specific spacing for it and I'll prove it so you'll be quite and stop giving the wrong information to people
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He's talking about the df C on a juggled opponent, not the one on a standing opponent. Not sure why you would be calling people on their BS when you're misreading the post to begin with.
I'll even bold it for you so you don't misread again:
j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+B (DC) dp+C, df+C, dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcb+A, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD
Therefore kin3tix was correct to begin with and you're the one spewing the wrong information.
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He's talking about the df C on a juggled opponent, not the one on a standing opponent. Not sure why you would be calling people on their BS when you're misreading the post to begin with.
I'll even bold it for you so you don't misread again:
j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+B (DC) dp+C, df+C, dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcb+A, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD
Therefore kin3tix was correct to begin with and you're the one spewing the wrong information.
He said he was missing the second df+c second df+c is the HD activation one.... Read the notation
I misread nothing I read exactly what the guy said.
Also stop doing that combo dude.lol
Do this one j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+D (DC) dp+C, qcb+b, (DC) dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD 1003 damage and it's easier. With no jump it's 972
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That was just a simple typo that you could've looked over, especially since he said the word JUGGLE. If he's capable of doing the standard hd, why the hell would he ask about doing the second df+C right after activation? You should already know what he's referring to if you know anything about the combo.
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"I have trouble connecting the second df+C (the one on the juggle). 80% of tries, I just miss it as if my opponent lands a bit too early."
As much as the poster typed it wrong (it should be the third, not the second, unless he meant the second after HD is activated), the obvious point of his sentence is that he said it was the one on the juggle.
And to be honest, I highly doubt anyone would have trouble doing Iori's C xx df C after HD activation considering the long reach of his df C and how quickly his stand C is.
But anyway, I don't feel like wasting my time arguing over such a simple topic considering the answer has already been posted before both you and me even posted. Anyone who reads the guy's sentence clearly can understand which df C he's talking about.
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That was just a simple typo that you could've looked over, especially since he said the word JUGGLE. If he's capable of doing the standard hd, why the hell would he ask about doing the second df+C right after activation? You should already know what he's referring to if you know anything about the combo.
I've done the combo and that wasn't what I'd consider a typo.
I skipped that in the juggle part because after reading the notation and reading his statement I figured I knew what the combo was about so forgive me (also in English generally if you skip anything it's the things in parenthesis not the actually meat of the sentence) . Also, if you all know there is a spacing specific combo that is reasonably difficult but we have a kill combo that can kill for 3 that's 5x easier why not direct him toward that.
Also, I apologize these gentleman are correct it is spacing specific but kind of a waste of time to learn when there is a much easier death combo. Unless you are just doing it for fun.
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Yeah, I meant the third but I wrote second.
I actually pulled it off a few times yesterday in practice. I was just hoping it would be more reliable and practical.
Like I said in one of the previous posts, I had a weird problem with the 1003 damage combo - I was running out of HD before I could activate NM, but I got rid of that issue.
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Yeah, I meant the third but I wrote second.
I actually pulled it off a few times yesterday in practice. I was just hoping it would be more reliable and practical.
Like I said in one of the previous posts, I had a weird problem with the 1003 damage combo - I was running out of HD before I could activate NM, but I got rid of that issue.
Yeah, you just have to do the neo max slightly before the rip.
Glad you have that down now. It's much more beneficial and reliable.
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Practical Claw & Hwa combos performed by Dune
KOF13CONSOLE Frequently Done Combos hwa Crow Iori（youtubeé™å®šï¼‰ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miNQ9Lnu640#ws)
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Hey guys what are the Safe Jumps you fellas use with Claw Iori?
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Oh man...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpFLiz4yuJE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpFLiz4yuJE#ws)
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Claw Iori combos
KOFXIII Claw: Non HD & HD Combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHP4GeUVuWo#ws)
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I've recently picked up Claw Iori as anchor and am pretty consistent with his combos in training mode. When I'm playing in a match, I'm having a somewhat frustrating issue, and am hoping somebody can give me a hand with.
I've taken to ending my blockstrings with qcb+C, which I'm not sure is a good idea but seems mostly safe if I'm not using it against a 0-frame grappler. The problem is that if I try to poke out a blockstring during my opponent's pressure, I'll generally go with cr.B, cr.B, f+A, qcb+C. If I start this series from blocking, oftentimes I'll get an accidental maiden masher, which usually doesn't work out too well for me.
Does anyone have an easy fix for this problem, or is the answer just to be more precise in going from db+B to f+A to avoid the quarter-circle-forward motion I'm getting now, or let the stick reset to neutral before qcb+C? Both of those are not easy to do in pressure situations for me, but I'll work on it if I have to. Should I be ending blockstrings with a different move? None of his specials are neutral or plus frames on block according to the wiki.
Thanks!
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I'm not entirely sure here, but you might be hitting qcb.C too fast after the f.A. You could also try going to cr.B instead of db.B.
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That could be the case. I'll check it out in training and mess with the timing.
As for getting cr.B instead of db+B, if I'm just trying to poke out of my opponent's pressure with cr.B, don't I need to be holding block? I guess once I'm in blockstun I don't really need to be holding back anymore, but I'm not really good or smart enough to know when I can reasonably expect to successfully land a cr.B, so I'm usually holding down-back the whole time until I can actually confirm a hit.
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That could be the case. I'll check it out in training and mess with the timing.
As for getting cr.B instead of db+B, if I'm just trying to poke out of my opponent's pressure with cr.B, don't I need to be holding block? I guess once I'm in blockstun I don't really need to be holding back anymore, but I'm not really good or smart enough to know when I can reasonably expect to successfully land a cr.B, so I'm usually holding down-back the whole time until I can actually confirm a hit.
If you're in a true block string, then you only need to block the first hit.
You can't block something, and poke at the same time. If you're holding db, and pressing a button, then you're attacking, not blocking. If the opponent throws something out that beats your move, then you'll get hit even if you're holding db, because you pressed a button.
If you're going to press a button, then move the stick to down. After you're done pressing your button(s) move it to back or db assuming your attack failed, and you want to block again. This will take some getting used to. I had to learn this technique in the opposite direction. I was used to starting BnB's with EX Kyo from df, but doing that with Kula causes her to slide, so I had to work on running in, and pressing down before pressing my lights.
Again, I'm not sure if starting from down is going to help prevent your super from coming out, but it's worth a shot. I suspect because you're starting from db that you're rolling the stick to forward and hitting d, df along the way thus completing that super when you try to qcb later. If you start from down, then you won't have the down (start of maiden masher) buffered since you were already holding down.
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I'm definitely hitting d and df by rolling the stick to get the forward A, I just messed around in training mode to double check, but I was pretty sure that was the problem. That's all good advice about blocking, though, thanks. I just need to wrap my head around not holding down back constantly while I'm getting attacked.
As an interesting aside, I've been working on this set-up with Claw Iori that people might like:
(Jump-in) Cl.C xx df+C [HD] Cl.C xx df+C xx dp+A [DC] qcb+B [DC] dp+C, qcb+D [DC] dp+C, (qcb+B [DC] dp+C)X3, qcb+B, qcb+A, Cl.C (reset) -> whiffed st.B, hcf+P, qcb+D, qcf,hcb+P does enough to kill if close enough to the corner and you jump in with C or D. Not too bad for 1 bar and HD, you just have to delay the command grab after the reset ever so slightly.
If you start the HD any other practical way, doing dp+C, EX DM after the command grab is enough to kill for 2 bars, even if starting from cr.B, s.A, f+A, A [HD], which does exactly 1000 damage.
I'm not entirely sure that whiffing a standing B is the best option after the reset, but it seems to time it almost perfectly. I'll keep fiddling and see if I can find something better.
Edit: a very very slightly delayed cr.B is probably a better option, as it looks like you're going to go low after the command grab and times the grab really well.
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I'm definitely hitting d and df by rolling the stick to get the forward A, I just messed around in training mode to double check, but I was pretty sure that was the problem. That's all good advice about blocking, though, thanks. I just need to wrap my head around not holding down back constantly while I'm getting attacked.
As an interesting aside, I've been working on this set-up with Claw Iori that people might like:
(Jump-in) Cl.C xx df+C [HD] Cl.C xx df+C xx dp+A [DC] qcb+B [DC] dp+C, qcb+D [DC] dp+C, (qcb+B [DC] dp+C)X3, qcb+B, qcb+A, Cl.C (reset) -> whiffed st.B, hcf+P, qcb+D, qcf,hcb+P does enough to kill if close enough to the corner and you jump in with C or D. Not too bad for 1 bar and HD, you just have to delay the command grab after the reset ever so slightly.
If you start the HD any other practical way, doing dp+C, EX DM after the command grab is enough to kill for 2 bars, even if starting from cr.B, s.A, f+A, A [HD], which does exactly 1000 damage.
I'm not entirely sure that whiffing a standing B is the best option after the reset, but it seems to time it almost perfectly. I'll keep fiddling and see if I can find something better.
Edit: a very very slightly delayed cr.B is probably a better option, as it looks like you're going to go low after the command grab and times the grab really well.
Have you tried messing with his Cmd grab resets? He can do some pretty nasty stuff when it comes to resetting. He can do, Cmd Grab, Run- up Cr. C, QCB+K
This is an ambiguous cross-up scenario that is really prevalent at mid screen, and can lead to a basic combo. It's especially gross because you can make it look like you're crossing them up, but when they land, you're on the original side you faced. It's real mixer upper, and one of the other reasons about what makes hims so dangerous on the offensive.
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I've just started delving into some of his resets this week in training mode, they seem interesting. I think I'm still a ways off from being able to exploit them to their fullest, but it's nice to know they're an option.
Thanks!
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Quick question for any claw (or flame, I guess) Iori players:
I'm currently drilling his cross-up taco move on crouching opponents because I'm HORRIBLE at hitting it, and am still having problems with it. It seems like half of the time the b+B comes out as a regular hop B, so I'm guessing that my timing is a bit off and it's crossing up before the command normal comes out, so it looks like f+B to the game instead. I can sometimes hit it by pressing f+B, lending some support to my theory above.
My question is, when good players are doing the cross-up b+B, are they inputting it as f+B or b+B relative to the side they start on? I'm very inconsistent with it either way, but both do work occasionally, and I want to know which I should be practicing or which timing is easier.
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Fwd+B: You jump over the opponent and simply hold up fwd (from jumping) and roll it one directional click to fwd and press B.
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Fwd+B: You jump over the opponent and simply hold up fwd (from jumping) and roll it one directional click to fwd and press B.
Hmmm.... seems to be different for me (I use a hitbox), but it could be related to timings. I usually perform the move late so I hit lower thus I need to use back.B.
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Fwd+B: You jump over the opponent and simply hold up fwd (from jumping) and roll it one directional click to fwd and press B.
Hmmm.... seems to be different for me (I use a hitbox), but it could be related to timings. I usually perform the move late so I hit lower thus I need to use back.B.
I think it's just you. I use a keyboard which should be similar enough to a hitbox and still need f+B to get the taco. If I tried to press b+B while jumping over, I would just get a j.B
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Sigh...
If you jump OVER someone, then you hold forward BECOMES backwards relative to the opponent. So by holding "forwards" while crossing up and pressing B, you ARE pressing back+B.
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Sigh...
If you jump OVER someone, then you hold forward BECOMES backwards relative to the opponent. So by holding "forwards" while crossing up and pressing B, you ARE pressing back+B.
No sigh man, it's just people interpreting the English language differently. Maybe we need lawyers to help us on this one.
I view this as AirLancer described, but execute it as Kane317 described. To me it's back because I crossed over, but if you just go with the direction you jumped, then it's forward. Either way, you have to wait till the crossover before you press B.
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I don't actually play Iori at all... but I'm pretty sure what I do is press the forward before I cross over and just hold it, pressing the B after the cross-over... so that's why my perspective is forward. If you were to try to jump forward, and then quickly hit back+B as you're reaching the character, it's not going to work, because you need to first change sides.