Dream Cancel Forum

King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Athena Asamiya => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 06:38:50 AM

Title: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 06:38:50 AM
(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/athena_new.gif)

Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

* = EX version possible

Command Normals
Phoenix Bomb - ;fd + ;b

Special Moves
Psycho Ball - ;qcb + ;a / ;c *

Psycho Sword - ;dp + ;a/  ;c *

Teleport - ;qcf + ;b / ;d *

Phoenix Arrow - ;qcb ;b / ;d (in air) *

Reflector - ;qcb + ;b / ;d *

Psychic Throw - ;hcf + ;a / ;c (close) +

Desperation Moves
Shining Crystal Bit - ;hcb x2 + ;a / ;c (ground or air) > ;a ;c (for Cancel) *

Neomax
Psycho Medley XIII - ;hcb ;fd ;a ;c

Athena's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Athena_Asamiya_(XIII)).

Console changes:
* Phoenix Bomb (from Cancel: f.B) has a different trajectory from arcade version and hits a crouching opponent as a combo from a normal fierce.
* Weak Phoenix Arrow’s (air qcb K) recovery time has been reduced, but it also causes a shorter Hitstun on the opponent.
* EX Psycho Teleport (Ex qcf K) can be canceled with a special or super. The Arcade version only allowed drive canceling at the second half of the move, but it no longer has that limit and it’s also a normal cancel now (doesn’t cost drive meter).
- Standing CD comes out faster.
* Shining Crystal Bit (hcb x2+P) doesn’t move back on execution.

Producer Yamamoto says: Weak Phoenix Arrow has been balanced so that it can’t be punished with normal moves on a block. Since there’s less worries about it being punished, it should be effective to use it together with her buffed up Phoenix bomb, There’s other changes that Athena users should be happy about, like her standing CD and her Shining Crystal Bit.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 06:39:10 AM
Reserved
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 06:39:21 AM
Reserved
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Emperor Paine on December 07, 2011, 01:11:08 AM
Let's talk Athena lol
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on December 07, 2011, 09:09:54 PM
OK since this wasn't answered in the previous thread, I'll ask it here:

Can Athena cancel out of her Phoenix Arrow into something else (say, a Psycho Sword or a Shining Crystal Bit) while still rolling in the air?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Emperor Paine on December 07, 2011, 10:43:55 PM
OK since this wasn't answered in the previous thread, I'll ask it here:

Can Athena cancel out of her Phoenix Arrow into something else (say, a Psycho Sword or a Shining Crystal Bit) while still rolling in the air?

I've done so in HD mode and reg Super Cancel with Phoenix Arrow into Shining Crystal Bit. My timing and input may be off to do Psycho Sword though. But i will keep trying
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: fiol on December 10, 2011, 04:34:18 AM
i have a lot of problems beating this psycho bitch!
i encountered a really good athena player some days ago on psn.. his team was athena,chin and vice. Chin was kinda of tricky but i managed to beat him, Vice too,but the bitch... my god. She was his first char.. he easily beat 2 of my mains (billy and ralf) w/out problems. Then when i need to use my last char i got lucky (not always).
The problems are the psycho balls. With billy and ralf dunno how to beat her.. if she throw me at the corner I am fucked.. any suggestion?
I usually start with Billy, then Ralf, and Clark (or viceversa)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: GuamoKun on December 10, 2011, 10:35:19 AM
i have a lot of problems beating this psycho bitch!
i encountered a really good athena player some days ago on psn.. his team was athena,chin and vice. Chin was kinda of tricky but i managed to beat him, Vice too,but the bitch... my god. She was his first char.. he easily beat 2 of my mains (billy and ralf) w/out problems. Then when i need to use my last char i got lucky (not always).
The problems are the psycho balls. With billy and ralf dunno how to beat her.. if she throw me at the corner I am fucked.. any suggestion?
I usually start with Billy, then Ralf, and Clark (or viceversa)

I don't play with your characters, but as an Athena player, being cornered isn't a good thing for her.

You can try rolling through her psycho ball attack and try to bait her punishable psycho sword. Athena can be good upclose, but she needs to have room to fall back on her zoning game.

I have a lot of problems fighting players who play mindgames better than Athena. Clark's B grab is really good since it has the godlike protection it now has, and it can be used against Athenas in the corner.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Esura on December 13, 2011, 08:31:22 PM
I don't play with your characters, but as an Athena player, being cornered isn't a good thing for her.

You can try rolling through her psycho ball attack and try to bait her punishable psycho sword. Athena can be good upclose, but she needs to have room to fall back on her zoning game.

I have a lot of problems fighting players who play mindgames better than Athena. Clark's B grab is really good since it has the godlike protection it now has, and it can be used against Athenas in the corner.

This would explain my current predicament with Athena. I get cornered easily against Clark, particularly due to my poor timing of Psycho Balls and Psycho Shield.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Emperor Paine on December 13, 2011, 11:27:22 PM

This would explain my current predicament with Athena. I get cornered easily against Clark, particularly due to my poor timing of Psycho Balls and Psycho Shield.
Only thing i can tell you with that matchup against Clark is to wait. Bait that  ;b grab. Hit and run tactics work best for me. If you get cornered and they are heavy on using the grab just jump or  ;up ;c ;d
knock them away so you get breathing room.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: currentlemon on December 23, 2011, 04:23:01 AM
12月22日:対戦動画 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z0UpnaGqZ4#ws)
In this video here, this Athena player here does an interesting corner loop.  Go to 9:39 to see it.  Also, Kyou Fujibayashi FTW.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Joe on December 23, 2011, 03:42:16 PM
I was about to post that video. A quick look at the combo, I got something like:

HCF+P > DP+P (1 hit) > (DC) >214+PP > Dash Under > j.f+LK > j.214D > j.f+LKx3 > j.214D > (DC) > 214+PP > j.f+LK x5 > j.214D > HCBx2+P

Hope its right, I'm not too familiar with Athena but I've picked her up recently, and this loop is pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Ufgt on December 23, 2011, 05:26:35 PM
Is that loop character specific? I haven't tried it yet, but it seems so...
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: p___a__i__n on December 31, 2011, 06:34:55 PM
Is that loop character specific? I haven't tried it yet, but it seems so...
Nope its not character specific it works on all chars
btw peeps here's an Athena Combo vid I made for us
I know there's some ppl that probably already made one but I did it for the hell of it since I like her alot
Welp hope u guyz enjoy it
KOF XIII Athena Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI7hmWw2GBY#ws)

hmmm....... I wonder if any1 can guess all of the customizations used in this video =3
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: GenesisDC on January 17, 2012, 08:53:58 PM
I was about to post that video. A quick look at the combo, I got something like:

HCF+P > DP+P (1 hit) > (DC) >214+PP > Dash Under > f+LK > j.214+KK > j.f+LKx3 > j.214D > (DC) > 214+PP > j.f+LK x5 > j.214D > HCBx2+P

Hope its right, I'm not too familiar with Athena but I've picked her up recently, and this loop is pretty awesome.

Fixed. It's possible with j.f+B as well but it's way easier doing it this way. You have to make sure most of the EX Phoenix Arrow whiffs and the kick at the end connects. It's best to short hop to get the j.f+Bs to connect.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Franchyze22 on February 01, 2012, 08:40:44 AM
Hey I don't know if this is known but I think you can link Cr.b into things like Psycho Sword, heavy Psycho ball etc. You just have to do it real fast like link timing.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Renegade on February 11, 2012, 04:34:16 PM
Hey I don't know if this is known but I think you can link Cr.b into things like Psycho Sword, heavy Psycho ball etc. You just have to do it real fast like link timing.
I'm pretty sure if you do two (hit confirm) it won't link into heavy psycho ball or command throw.

Two Lk into psycho sword is a mid screen B&B though.

I really like Athena. I think people kinda sleep on her, but her buffs from Arcade seem pretty significant, esp the Target combo w/ the butt.

Her command grab is too good. Invincibility plus the ability to do great damage w/o meter? Yes plz.

Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on February 13, 2012, 10:24:26 PM
her command grab is really invincible??

what do u guys feel are her best midscreen combos?
EX command grab doesn't seem too practical to me since u can do practically the same things, besides EX psychoball, with a normal command grab (unless i'm completely missing something).

But here is a corner combo i found to be really good for the ratio of meter/damage

2/3 stock, no drive
(corner) cl.C, qcb+A, st.C, f+B, qcb+BD, hcbx2+P (EX)

does close around the 400s (can't remember off the top of my head)
but in all honesty it doesn't seem too practical because there really won't be any situation where u can get a cl.C as a punish. its super hard to catch anyone with a jump in with her for a combo since her jump is so floaty.

so i think this might be a more practical version.
catching someone pressing buttons or not blocking overhead.

please let me know if there are more optimal/practical combos that can be done
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Renegade on February 27, 2012, 02:19:48 AM
Yeah, her command grab has invincible startup. Stupid, isn't it? I've seen some DP's go through it. Benimaru's for example.

It's not as fast as some of the other ones though (Yuri/Clark/Daimon), but it's the #1 reason why athena is scary when she corners you.

As far as combos go, I never really go for more than 1 meter or 1 drive cancel in a combo, since I like to run Athena 1st to build bar for everyone else.

In the corner,  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b,  ;dn ;db ;bk ;a,  ;dn ;db ;bk ;a,  ;fd ;dn ;df ;c should be your #1 priority. Great damage, no meter, and leaves them cornered.

Unless you're just doing close C->A fireball as a block string, I wouldn't go for that A fireball, Stand C at all. It's too risky to use that link in an otherwise guaranteed combo.

Her EX Super is almost never really "worth it", unless it's a situation where the HP DP or the level 1 wouldn't hit. An example I can think of is her midscreen combo:
close  ;c,  ;fd ;b,  ;dn ;db ;bk ;d,  ;dn ;df ;fd  ;b,  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk  ;a + ;c

Any other time it's probably best to end w/ C DP.

For reference, C DP does 165
Shining Level 1 Does 210
EX DP does 233
EX Shining does 320
Psycho Medley does 410


Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on March 05, 2012, 02:07:59 AM
Athena combo video that uses her air infinite in some of the combos:

KoF XIII : Totally Casual Combo Vid (Athena) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju1RiEsbDow#)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: p___a__i__n on March 09, 2012, 11:21:00 PM
I didn't even know butt loop was possible mid-screen
trying that out rite now
Title: Re: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on March 12, 2012, 06:49:43 PM
These combos are SO SICK! I spent all night last night mastering the mid screen butt loop off of cl.C and cr. B > st.B. This makes her punishes so beefy.

My tip is to hold forward, then short hop after and uncomfortable amount of walking (slightly after passing under opponent). And press the direction you are jumping + b. this is my timing to land it consistently.

I couldn't figure out how to time it off the command grab or cr.b x2. Anyone have any tips on that?

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: p___a__i__n on March 13, 2012, 10:21:17 AM
Yea that mid-screen combo made my Athena even more deadlier
that was a good find.
ur most likely doing the kicks too slow or ur taking too many steps after DP> Fireball cause I do 3 cr.lks and land it consistently.The timing is the same for the cmd grab into it,crouching lks,and st.C dp.
My suggestion to help u out is pay attention to the char's feet or somewhere else on their body that'll probably help u out,that's what I did to master it.
Btw I pulled this off at a Tight Or Fight last week u should've been there evry1 was like yo that's gdlk
I made alot of ppl wanna pick up Athena after seeing that lol.
I was being streamed but unfortunely the internet blew up in the matches I pulled it off at
imma try to pull it off again at my next tournies I attend
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on April 04, 2012, 08:10:08 PM
what midscreen combo off of command grab do you guys usually go for?

my combo of choice is f+B, j.qcb+BD, j.CD
it does around 200 dmg and carries them to the corner almost every time.
for 1 meter i think its totally worth it
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: p___a__i__n on April 06, 2012, 04:45:06 AM
what midscreen combo off of command grab do you guys usually go for?

my combo of choice is f+B, j.qcb+BD, j.CD
it does around 200 dmg and carries them to the corner almost every time.
for 1 meter i think its totally worth it
if u have 1 meter and at least a half drive u should always go for it(well if u can pull it off consistently off a cmd grab,cr.b lk,and st.C dp) 400+ dmg is always worth it.
But if u can't ur combo of choice is fine it takes em to the corner.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on May 07, 2012, 06:15:32 AM
i could use some clarification on the f.B loop. i really dont understand how to get this combo to work. =[

to me it looks like the game is reading it as a cross up without actually going behind the opponent? i replay the combo over and over and try my best to replicate it. i just dont get it though. ive tried walking forward, dashing, doing f.b off a hop, doing f.b off the ground, letting my inputs reverse, doing it before my input reverses. after the dp cancel to EX psychoball, i dont understand what makes the f.B loop work. i almost always get the f.b to hit, but cannot get it loop. i dont understand how to get it to connect like it does in the video.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 07, 2012, 02:31:01 PM
Dude, this cracks me down.

For what it's worth, after EX psycho ball, says walk fwd (till behind) then do a backwards hop into the f.b's .....

And by the placement in the vid, I can see that 'behind' is hell ambiguous.

Don't think I'll be getting this anytime soon.

Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on May 09, 2012, 10:03:51 PM
yeah i still cant get this one down. :(

the closest i can get is the crossed up f.b, but hitting the opponent from behind instead of front

knowing its off a cross up back hop has gotten me a lot closer though, thank you!
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 10, 2012, 01:05:40 AM
Cool. Let us know now if you end up figuring it out d(^o^)b
Title: Re: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on May 10, 2012, 01:27:17 AM
Where exactly are you dropping it? Are you having trouble getting the first butt?

For me it seems like, if you are directly underneath the opponent, you hop right when they start flying away. Then hit f(the direction you hopped)+b. Then hold the same direction + b

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 10, 2012, 05:28:48 AM
Both of us were able to get the first f+b off of the hop (maybe not necessarily position-wise which may be the key).

Holding f and spamming B doesn't seem to get another attack to happen - just stays in initial atk animation...

You able to pull it off?

thx
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LazieFreddy on May 10, 2012, 06:40:18 AM
I could use a little bit of clarification too. 

Let's say Athena is on the left, right after we do the Ex Psycho Ball, do I keep walking to the right until we switch sides and immediately hop right to get a "back hop" and press left + B to get the phoenix bomb?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 10, 2012, 06:52:18 AM
That's how I interpreted it.

Direct translation of that bit:
after EX psycho ball, walk fwd (till behind) then do a backwards hop into the f.b's

So makes sense that the hop would be to the right if you're starting on the left. It may have to happen like the *pixel* (exaggerating) after crossing over to the other side.

Looking at the video again, it seems to be taking advantage of this and Athena is facing the wrong way while hitting Beni and that keeps her from bouncing away from beni. No idea why that allows you to use the move multiple times, but assuming it's taking advantage of a glitch.

The jump clearly looks like she's jumping fwd, but think we're calling it backwards bc of the split second that beni is on the other side before the momentum of the hit from the psycho ball moves him away so looks like that's the exact point where the hop needs to happen (so would be a back hop at that instant).

The guy in the video's some kind of whack savant for coming up with this.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LAB Falken on May 10, 2012, 01:35:58 PM
Yea this is pretty specific overall I find. I've been working on it for a couple days, I think there's a few things that are very important but I'm still testing a lot so I can't be too sure.

I got Joe's dizzy figured out way faster than this though. What I'd like to know is how did someone come up with this crap in the first place?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sharnt on May 10, 2012, 02:29:59 PM
SNK video used it
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LAB Falken on May 10, 2012, 03:23:30 PM
Hahahaha that's awesome.

Well after that last post I nailed it, it's actually pretty lenient (height of jump limits the amount of  ;fd ;b reps, timing of jump alters height of first hit depending on where their hurtbox is) at least off the raw DP (;c used, it pushes them out further so you can simply hold forward off something like st ;c, chainx2 ;b, etc). I would suggest you use the timing of the final hit of the fireball to do hop forward  ;fd ;b off of a normal cancelled into a psycho sword, it lines it up perfectly. It's also worth noting that since ;a psycho sword has faster startup you can get the first hit of it from further away, such as  ;dn ;b ;dn ;b ;fd ;a ;dn ;df ;a and still get the butt loop.

Off the command throw you need to hit them with the first hit of whatever DP you're using, preferably lower to the ground (less chance to get a miss or staggered fireball hits) wait a moment, then walk forward and forward hop ;fd ;b.

TK the fireball so you don't get EX super!
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 10, 2012, 04:18:57 PM
Very nice.

If you get a stable one going, sounds like a good candidate for the 50% thread:
http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=2019.0 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=2019.0)

I see them doing mid/upper 400's for dmg off of 1stk 1drv.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LAB Falken on May 10, 2012, 04:37:22 PM
sure I'll crank out a few variations right now and notate it.

cl C XX 623C [DC] 214AC (walk forward, hop forward on last hit) > 6B x4 > 6B XX 214B > 623A = 500 damage exactly. Works everywhere onscreen but in the corner AFAIK.

Off the command throw it does 464 omitting the cl C, but everything else is the same.

Starting with 2B2B5A XX 623A [DC] etc it does 434.

It's worth noting that sometimes the character falls out of the last hit of the buttloop, going for 4 6Bs and cancelling the last one is probably the safest option. In the combos I listed there are 5.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LAB Falken on May 14, 2012, 04:46:20 PM
Pardon the double post but I have been experimenting with Athena's butt loop a little more lately. I was trying to pump out some extra damage after watching the aforementioned video, turns out if you delay the second fB (or potentially any of them barring the first of course, if done properly) you can squeeze out just a tad bit more and be set with a better leave allowing for a 214D followup at max height, or a 623C after the 214B.

Honestly I don't see much use in doing such a thing, since if you mess it up (very easy to mess it up) you lose a fair amount of damage, but it's worth noting that that is how it is done. So if someone decides to put that into their muscle memory they'll be a bit better off in terms of damage output.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LazieFreddy on May 14, 2012, 07:38:16 PM
Wait, so is it a forward or backward hop after the ex fireball?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 15, 2012, 09:55:32 AM
Technically I think it's a backward hop just after crossing the divide.

@Falken, what say u to that?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LAB Falken on May 15, 2012, 11:36:20 AM
Kind of a matter of perspective. Technically it's a backhop (otherwise she wouldn't turn around for fB) but for all intents and purposes you do it as if it were a forward hop. If memory serves, she doesn't turn around period so it looks like a forward hop, not until you initiate fB does she change sides. If she DOES turn around, odds are you're going to just get a jumping B.

It is a really really strange loop though, let's say you were facing the right side of the screen and you did the 623C (DC) 214AC and walked forward and did the hop, you initiate the fB's by holding to the right (6B) still, and continue doing so for every single hit. I have a feeling by doing this you confuse the game since you're constantly travelling between their hitbox crossing them up then bouncing back, all the while their hitbox is popping back into you allowing it to continue for several reps.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 15, 2012, 01:40:51 PM
It's not 'technically' a backhop. It IS a backhop. The opponent just crosses back over it and ends up behind you.
f+B is inputted the way it is because moves are always inputted with relation to the opponent's position.
i.e. If you're facing left and the opponent is on your right then you input it to the right, but the move will still come out facing left.

I've been messing with this recently as a midscreen HD combo:
2B, 2B [HD] 2C, 623C [DC] 214AC, [walk under hop] 6B, 6B, 6B, 6B, 6B, 214D [DC] 236B, 623A [DC]* 426A, 623C [DC] 426C, (optional 624624P), 6246AC

It's quite easy with a little bit of practice. Hell, I mess up the initial psycho sword input more than I mess up the rest of it.

(* If you want to show off, you can DC into another 214AC here and send them to the moon twice in one combo)
(note: input psycho sword DC into command grab as 641236 and double tap punch)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on May 16, 2012, 11:58:42 AM
i still cant get this loop. @_@

f.b still crossing up but hitting from behind instead of front. does that mean im doing the hop too late? whenever i try to do it earlier it has much worse results =p

i cant tell if the timing is really just that tight, or if im still not understanding how to get it to connect properly.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LazieFreddy on May 16, 2012, 02:47:22 PM
So after messing around in training mode for the whole morning, I'm starting to get the butt loop combo.  I can do it from a cl.c or cr.b x 2, but i haven't figured out the timing off a comand grab yet.

This is how I do it:
Let's say Athena is on the left, after the Ex Psycho Ball, keep walking to the right until we switch sides and immediately hop right to get a "back hop" and press right + B to get the phoenix bomb.  Don't ask me why it's right + b when the opponent is supposedly on the left, it just works.  The tricky part after this is to time the rhythm of phoenix bombs to get maximum hits.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 17, 2012, 01:49:50 PM
You don't need to time it. As long as you do a hop and don't accidentally jump, you can literally just hold forward and mash B to get 5 hits every time.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on May 28, 2012, 02:39:25 PM
I was wondering, is there a difference between the A and the C version of her command grab ?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 29, 2012, 01:52:11 AM
There's no difference btwn A,C.

EX has invincibility, is faster, has more range tho
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on May 29, 2012, 02:04:18 AM
really sorry if this has been posted already, but i couldnt find it.

how many frames is her grab and EX grab?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on May 29, 2012, 02:15:18 AM
Dunno for sure, hoping keykakko-san will have athena frames up some point soon.

Can estimate some of this by having training dummy use a move you know the frames on, block > jump and see if throw punishes.

As for EX iirc close to 1 frame.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 29, 2012, 11:23:52 AM
Normal command grab hits on frame 7.
EX command grab hits on frame 3.
Both have invincibility.

I measured some framedata a while ago and dumped it on the SRK wiki since I already had an account there:
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Athena#Frame_Data (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Athena#Frame_Data)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on May 29, 2012, 12:56:37 PM
Thank you for your work~!

From what I tested, EX Shining Crystal Bit also has 3f startup by the way. Couldn't punish Athena's EX Phoenix Arrow with it and it's at -2 on block.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 29, 2012, 03:31:20 PM
The startup values listed do not include the first active frame.
2f startup = Hits on frame 3.

Edit: added a note to the page stating as such.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LazieFreddy on May 29, 2012, 05:01:02 PM
Thanks for the work.  BTW, I think A psycho ball has more frame advantage on hit than +2, since you can link a cr. C in the corner. 
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 29, 2012, 05:23:21 PM
The extra advantage is due to the spacing. At point blank it's +2.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LazieFreddy on May 29, 2012, 06:03:02 PM
Thanks, that makes sense.  Can you explain why there are two values for hit stun and block stun?  (11+21/11+18) 
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on May 29, 2012, 07:29:05 PM
The startup values listed do not include the first active frame.
2f startup = Hits on frame 3.

Edit: added a note to the page stating as such.
Then Shining Crystal Bit (non EX) is 1+1 too , it also becomes active on frame 3. You can punish Kyo's qcf D with it.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 29, 2012, 08:26:23 PM
Yeah that should be 1+1.
For some reason two of the startup frames got moved into active. I guess my recording lagged as it hit and I didn't notice because of the super freeze.

Thanks, that makes sense.  Can you explain why there are two values for hit stun and block stun?  (11+21/11+18)  

The first number is hitstop, the second number is hitstun.

When you hit with a normal attack, hitstop is applied to both players and cancels itself out.
When a projectile hits, hitstop is only applied to the opponent and the projectile, meaning it acts as extra hitstun that must be included. I decided to keep the values separate in case it ended up relevant to something.

For multi-hit projectiles the hitstop is what causes the delay in between hits (projectile and opponent both freeze for 11f, then the next hit connects).
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 30, 2012, 01:32:29 AM
5 bar midscreen HD combo:

JC, 5C [HD] 5C, 623C [DC] 214AC, [walk under hop] 6B, 6B, 6B, 6B, 6B, 214D [DC] 623A [DC] 214AC, [walk under hop] 6B, 6B, 6B, 214B, 624624P [DC] 6246AC

940 damage
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on May 30, 2012, 02:03:39 AM
thanks for the info on the command grab. :)

The startup values listed do not include the first active frame.
2f startup = Hits on frame 3.

Edit: added a note to the page stating as such.
Then Shining Crystal Bit (non EX) is 1+1 too , it also becomes active on frame 3. You can punish Kyo's qcf D with it.
and thanks for this. ive been having trouble finding a punish that doesnt get beat by his DP when he decides to throw it out afterwards.


another question; how does the ABCD cancel for crystal bit work? i know ideally i shouldnt be whiffing this at all... but this would help me out for when i do. ive tried pressing the buttons one after the other and also at the same time. i cant get it to work.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: p___a__i__n on May 30, 2012, 11:55:48 AM
Press all 4 buttons at the same time to cancel it early.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on May 30, 2012, 02:44:50 PM
Quote
and thanks for this. ive been having trouble finding a punish that doesnt get beat by his DP when he decides to throw it out afterwards.
You're welcome, but punishing with Shining Crystal Bit like that isn't really a good idea.

There's a gap between the two kicks, and you can use your DM during that gap to get the counterhit damage bonus.

Also , If you blocked the two hits, you can also punish with EX Psychic Throw and then do whatever you want, including HD combos.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on May 31, 2012, 07:20:48 PM
I got bored.

King of Fighters XIII - Athena midscreen combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn2RS974GLQ#ws)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on May 31, 2012, 08:14:49 PM
Get bored more often~
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LAB Falken on May 31, 2012, 08:20:20 PM
good stuff, that should work as a great reference for anyone trying to figure out the butt loop
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Kane317 on May 31, 2012, 11:13:20 PM
Get bored more often~

^
Title: Re: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on June 14, 2012, 05:46:18 PM
Is that 6 butts in those combos? I can only seem to get 5, has anyone else been able to get 6?

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Sprint on June 14, 2012, 06:22:12 PM
You have to do the first one the instant after leaving the ground, and delay every subsequent hit with the same rhythm as in the video.

If you're not sure whether you've got it right, you can option select the 6th hit by inputting a delayed qcf+B. This comes out as another f+B if you got the timings right, but if it drops you end up behind the opponent and get a light phoenix arrow instead. Either way you can see what happens and combo off it.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on June 14, 2012, 11:35:40 PM
Even if you only want to get 5 hits, you should delay the hits nonetheless, because if you don't ,only the 5th Phoenix Bomb gives you drive meter.

If you do , however, the 4th and 5th one give you drive.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: p___a__i__n on June 21, 2012, 04:03:39 AM
Athena CV reuploaded

KOF XIII Athena Combo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT-mAEBWL0Q#ws)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Emperor Paine on June 22, 2012, 07:35:07 AM
P__A_I_N are you gonna make it to EVO?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: p___a__i__n on June 23, 2012, 12:46:30 AM
Can't really say.
We'll see l8er on if I can attend or not.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Emperor Paine on June 27, 2012, 03:29:20 AM
Dang. I saw your name in the pool. Can't remember which one but I believe it was a friday pool.
Just keep me posted on if you can make it.
First round drinks on me.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: LazieFreddy on June 27, 2012, 04:03:45 AM
Yeah, I want to see those sick Athena combos in person.   LOL
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: fiol on July 04, 2012, 11:43:36 AM
i just played a guy whose team was athena,chin and kensou.
i fuckin hate that stupid bitch
psycho ball, psycho ball, and so on... and the guy was starting the infinite (?) on me (i was billy) in mid-screen.. he was looping her ass for like 4 times in a row then KO.
no offense for all the athena's players out there but damn annoying bitch!
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Diavle on July 16, 2012, 03:09:34 PM
Learned the butt loop, huge thanks to Sprint and his vid, couldn't have done it without.

Couldn't get it at all at first, not even once by mistake, but then got it while half looking in a different direction with my hands doing everything on automatic. I was all "wow its the butt loop!" while my hands were mashing that B. Felt like an out of body experience lol. Seem to be able to do it consistently (haven't tried it in a real match yet).

Now this character should be more fun, didn't feel like I was playing her proper without knowing this (kinda like Joe without stun combo, just ain't the same, not as fun).

Also, looking into utilizing her teleports for offence/evasion, the HK version will be useless for anything but a clean get away (as in nothing in her way) but the LK and EX seem like they will do really well overall.

How good would you guys say is her reflector for shutting down hoppers? I know its really fast because Kensou's crouch D into fireball bullshit doesn't work on her thanks to it.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: SPLIPH on July 18, 2012, 12:32:24 AM
Learned the butt loop, huge thanks to Sprint and his vid, couldn't have done it without.


Now this character should be more fun, didn't feel like I was playing her proper without knowing this (kinda like Joe without stun combo, just ain't the same, not as fun).

How good would you guys say is her reflector for shutting down hoppers? I know its really fast because Kensou's crouch D into fireball bullshit doesn't work on her thanks to it.

i agree and took athena off my main team cuz of it. i was really dissapointed in myself because i spent over a solid week grinding this combo a few hours a day. i could only get it come out occasionally, and that wasnt until after watching that video as well.

as far as i remember, her reflector will shut down any hop, just have to do it a bit pre-emptively. reacting i think will only have enough time on a full jump.

for those that have this combo down, how would you rank its difficulty in comparison to other characters main combos? i swapped athena for elisabeth, and i always thought liz was on the higher execution side just for the timing, but im finding all of her combos incredibily noob friendly in comparison to athenas f.B loop.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on July 18, 2012, 01:35:45 AM
Quote
for those that have this combo down, how would you rank its difficulty in comparison to other characters main combos?
You have two practical setups where you can just hold forward and jump when Athena crosses under your opponent. If you use them it's pretty easy to do. These are:

- c.B , c.B , s.A , dp+A , DC qcb A+C
This one is quite useful as it gives you a lot of time to confirm, and you can use it when pressuring midscreen, or after crossup j.B

- c.C , dp+C , DC qcb A+C
This one is more damaging, but doesn't give you time to confirm your dp , so it should only be used as a punish.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Diavle on July 18, 2012, 04:08:12 AM
^Yeah, I do it off of s.C or c.B, c.B, dp+C.

i agree and took athena off my main team cuz of it. i was really dissapointed in myself because i spent over a solid week grinding this combo a few hours a day. i could only get it come out occasionally, and that wasnt until after watching that video as well.

as far as i remember, her reflector will shut down any hop, just have to do it a bit pre-emptively. reacting i think will only have enough time on a full jump.

for those that have this combo down, how would you rank its difficulty in comparison to other characters main combos? i swapped athena for elisabeth, and i always thought liz was on the higher execution side just for the timing, but im finding all of her combos incredibily noob friendly in comparison to athenas f.B loop.

Its not as bad as I thought it would be to be honest.

Imo the most important thing is to find a solid visual cue for yourself to follow, don't go by feel or count (which is what I did initially because that's how I do Joe's stun combo). Once I found my cue it started happening very consistently.

My cue is to walk Athena forward until her sprite reaches and walks into her fireball, then I immediately hop and unleash her buttocks. Watch Split's video again and pay specific attention to the part in the beginning where he shows it in slow motion, try spotting your cue there.
 
And yeah, I tried the reflector against Kyo's hop j.d.C in practice (set the dummy and tried various distances) and its a really solid counter.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on July 20, 2012, 02:00:32 AM
Quote
for those that have this combo down, how would you rank its difficulty in comparison to other characters main combos?
You have two practical setups where you can just hold forward and jump when Athena crosses under your opponent. If you use them it's pretty easy to do. These are:

- c.B , c.B , s.A , dp+A , DC qcb A+C
This one is quite useful as it gives you a lot of time to confirm, and you can use it when pressuring midscreen, or after crossup j.B

- c.C , dp+C , DC qcb A+C
This one is more damaging, but doesn't give you time to confirm your dp , so it should only be used as a punish.

Nice, I didn't think to try that string off the cr.b.

I've been doing cr.b, st.b which gives the same result. Thanks for this

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on July 20, 2012, 03:52:44 AM
You're welcome~ Feel free to ask if you have any questions about Athena~
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on July 25, 2012, 07:20:04 PM
does anyone know exactly how safe ex phoenix arrow is? is it -1?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on July 26, 2012, 08:39:45 AM
EX Phoeniw Arrow is -2 .

I measured some framedata a while ago and dumped it on the SRK wiki since I already had an account there:
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Athena#Frame_Data (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Athena#Frame_Data)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: DBC on August 03, 2012, 01:08:04 AM
After either C or D throw, can the opponent walk out of short hop crossup j.f.B?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on August 03, 2012, 01:20:27 AM
After either C or D throw, can the opponent walk out of short hop crossup j.f.B?

they shouldn't be able to, is that what's happening to you?
that mean's you're moving too far forward. you just have to move a pixel to make it a cross up
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: DBC on August 03, 2012, 01:51:59 AM
I tried it a couple times in matches a few weeks back, they were able to walk foward out of it.  So you're supposed to walk foward a bit before hopping?

I don't walk foward at all.  I just immediately hop and delay the j.f.B so that it's a crossup.

Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on August 03, 2012, 02:17:29 AM
I tried it a couple times in matches a few weeks back, they were able to walk foward out of it.  So you're supposed to walk foward a bit before hopping?

I don't walk foward at all.  I just immediately hop and delay the j.f.B so that it's a crossup.



might be the delay that is causing it. the way i do it is pretty meaty, so it's already active when they wake up.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: DBC on August 03, 2012, 02:55:41 AM
With your method, should they block the crossup butt, will an immediate cancel to phoenix arrow hit as a crossup also?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on August 04, 2012, 12:12:37 AM
With your method, should they block the crossup butt, will an immediate cancel to phoenix arrow hit as a crossup also?

yes, you have to input it as if you on the other side.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: JennyCage on August 08, 2012, 12:25:49 AM
Anyone have some shortcut advice for tick grabbing with Athena?  I notice she'll do DP (DC) command grab if you double trap forward, then hcf.  Strangely these are the exact same motions I use with Claw Iori but he doesn't have this issue.  So far all I have is doing ff, hcb, hcf... but it's a really awkward input.  Looking for something shorter/more reliable.
Title: Re: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on August 08, 2012, 12:51:48 AM
Do db.a or b then hcf, f+p to get the dash you are looking for

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on August 08, 2012, 01:21:55 AM
Or if you want to do run > grab for a longer distance, you should do run > hcf , uf+P . That way you won't get her DP.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: t3h mAsTarOth...! on September 21, 2012, 11:04:44 AM
Athena can combo into Neomax reliably from a mid-screen psycho throw for really good damage... This technically gives her an invincible grab Neomax that only costs 2 meters and does about 60%...!!!

hcf+C, mid-air activate f+B, hcb+D, DC, qcb+C, DC, Neomax = 576 dmg

If you are near the corner then you can get more damage by doing her corner combo from the throw... You will also have the option of spending another meter to get even more damage... If by any chance you don't fully corner your opponent (after dp+A, DC, hcf+B) then you will end up in the corner yourself, so be careful... If this happens then you need to immediately input Neomax backwards...

hcf+C, mid-air activate f+B, hcb+D, DC, hcf+B, dp+A, DC, hcf+B, qcb+A, (dp+C, DC, hcf+B, qcb+A)x2, Neomax = 662 dmg
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on September 22, 2012, 12:33:02 AM
Athena's 2 meter corner HD from throw does about 720 damage actually. I'll post the combos and the damage later if you want, I have a headache right now...
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: t3h mAsTarOth...! on September 22, 2012, 02:16:07 AM
Are those consistent? I was trying out other options but they seemed to be really hard to time... I found that one i posted to be most consistent... Post it so i can see how difficult yours is...

Also I found about a full life setup near the corner with 2 meters + HD... You reset them in between... Do s.D, HD, s.C, f+B, hcb+D, DC, qcb+B, qcb+A, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, qcb+A, cr.C, qcf+B... It will do 442 damage... Then after the teleport, if you do s.A, hcf+C they won't be able to jump out or roll out... If you wait just a bit then you can just do hcf+C and throw them which will work if they are trying to block... From this you still have time to do hcf+C, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, Neomax for another 550ish damage...
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on September 22, 2012, 10:20:00 AM
Quote
Are those consistent?
Totally. I always land these in matches. Anyway... here we go~ 

Athena 2 meter HD off throw :

Corner -  hcf+P , qcb+A, j.f+BC, air qcb+B, [dp+C , DC qcf+B, qcb+A]x3 , dp+C, DC qcf+B, f+B, air qcb+D , Neomax = 720 damage

Midscreen - hcf+P , j.f+BC, air qcb+D, DC qcf+B , dp+A , DC qcf+B , qcb+A , [dp+C , DC qcf+B, qcb+A]x2, dp+C , DC qcf+B, neomax = 674 damage

Pretty much the same as your combo but with another dp+C added. I have a fullscreen HD too it's not worth it , and DP ~ teleport loop HD or just buttloop without HD is better.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on September 27, 2012, 09:50:44 PM
for that corner combo, did u really mean just f+B? not j.f+B? i'd imagine the combo would stop from a grounded one, but you tell me

sick combos though, definitely going to be implementing them into my game
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on September 27, 2012, 10:30:52 PM
Yes, I really meant f+B. Your opponent is high enough from the DP teleport loops to give Athena enough time to do it.

It also makes the kick of air qcb+D connect without requiring any timing.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: t3h mAsTarOth...! on September 28, 2012, 09:00:31 AM
Ok the corner combo you posted is great... I'm just gonna leave the qcb+A in the beginning out to make the start of the combo easier... Also the first dp+C has to be at a perfect height or the last f+B won't connect at the end... I still get 691 damage...

Also this gives her an awesome counter hit s.C+D combo in the corner...

CH s.C+D, f+B, *delay* qcb+B, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, f+B, qcb+D, dp+C = 403 dmg

Similarly she gets the same combo from her throw...

hcf+C, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, f+B, qcb+D, dp+C = 407 dmg
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on September 28, 2012, 10:14:14 AM
Quote
Also the first dp+C has to be at a perfect height or the last f+B won't connect at the end... I still get 691 damage...
Is that so? I never had any problems with it, since the dp teleport loops should launch the opponent high enough.
ESXR CUP 4, Tournoi KOF XIII, Grande Finale Tikok vs Kyosuke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZvkXmze6JE#ws)
At 2:28~

If you're worried about your opponent not being high enough, you can replace your last DP with a DP+A, that way no matter how low your opponent is , f+B connects fine.

Quote
CH s.C+D, f+B, *delay* qcb+B, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, f+B, qcb+D, dp+C = 403 dmg
This is good, but it's better if you get used to doing j.f+B after CH s.CD. That way you'll be able to confirm it into HD once you get the opportunity.
GEEK.RE, Tournoi KOF XIII, Finale Winner Hades vs Tikok (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikcXLycydiY#ws)
Look at 1:12~

Another thing about her s.CD is that you can easily do option selects with it. If you buffer a move really late into it, it will only come out if s.CD hits something, you can for example buffer qcf+B so that if s.CD hits counterhit you can followup with dp+A midscreen and if it doesn't, you still have the momentum.
ESXR CUP 4, Tournoi KOF XIII, Finale Winner Tikok vs Johker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAj5yZU-9dk#ws)
See that late cancel teleport at 1:18? It was an OS. If s.CD was a counterhit , I could have followed with dp~

Quote
hcf+C, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, f+B, qcb+D, dp+C = 407 dmg
Yes, that's her best 1drive no meter bnb off her throw in corner. It builds a lot of meter as well~ I used that combo in the vids I linked actually.

[/shameless self promotion]
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Shaman on October 07, 2012, 11:10:59 PM
Dude your Athena is crazy. The combo from the throw in the corner is very nice too, and not hard. Is there a nice throw combo for 2 ex 1 drive, when you have to finish your opponent the quickest possible ? I checked with EX DM instead of the final dp.C, it was about 500 dmg. Maybe you know a better one ?
Nice to see some Reunion players too ! I am french.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on October 07, 2012, 11:40:24 PM
Quote
Dude your Athena is crazy.
Thank you very much~
Quote
Is there a nice throw combo for 2 ex 1 drive, when you have to finish your opponent the quickest possible ?
Yes, There are these combos :
(corner) hcf+P , qcb+A , qcb+C, dp+C , SC air hcbx2+P, ground hcbx2+P

(midscreen) hcf+P, f+B , air qcb B+D, j.f+B , air qcb+B, dp+C , DC qcf+B, f+B, air qcb+D , hcbx2+P
I believe that the last dm is a waste since you'll most likely get like , 50 more damage than dp C , but since you wanted 2 meter combos, I listed DM instead~

(fullscreen) hcf+P, f+B , air qcb B+D, j.f+B , air qcb B+D, j.f+B , air qcb+B, dp+C, DC f+B , air qcb+D , dp+C
That combo may be difficult at first, but trust me, if you practice it , it definitely is a practical combo.

I am sorry for not giving you the damage of these combos, since I don't know them by heart and cannot play KoF XIII right now. But unless new things are discovered, I believe that these are the best, practical combos that you can have off Athena's throw for 2 meter and 1 drive.
 
You can also confirm into EX throw in the corner , and do some pretty nice things with that ammount of meter. Like this combo :
c.B , c.A , hcf A+C , qcb A+C , qcb+A , qcb+C , dp+C , DC qcf+B, f+B , air qcb+D , dp+C.

Be careful with c.A though, it has less range than s.A and s.A also hits crouching opponents. However in that case, since you need to be pretty close for that combo to work, it's better to use c.A because c.A leaves Athena at +3 on block, so you can keep the pressure going in case c.B , c.A gets blocked. This combo is meant to be hit confirmed, two light attacks give you enough time to see if you should do the ex throw or not. Don't just randomly do it and hope it hits.

Quote
Nice to see some Reunion players too ! I am french.
Oh~! I hope that next year I can come to France and challenge you guys !
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on October 12, 2012, 08:11:41 PM
Has anyone found a reliable way to time the butt loop off of a command grab?
i can do it pretty consistently (to my surprise) by just feeling out the timings but something more robotic would be nice. (like the cr.b, cr.b, cr.a A DP or cl.C, DP setups)

also, i think people need to use more meaty cross up butts, like after air resets/j.CD. so good
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on October 12, 2012, 11:37:34 PM
also, i think people need to use more meaty cross up butts, like after air resets/j.CD. so good

This is the only time I know that someone has used the words "meaty" and "butts" in the same sentence without sounding sexual... xD
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: BioBooster on October 23, 2012, 12:55:57 PM
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Athena_Asamiya_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Athena_Asamiya_%28XIII%29#Move_Metadata)

Athena frames
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Shaman on October 26, 2012, 09:14:09 PM
Quote
(fullscreen) hcf+P, f+B , air qcb B+D, j.f+B , air qcb B+D, j.f+B , air qcb+B, dp+C, DC f+B , air qcb+D , dp+C
That combo may be difficult at first, but trust me, if you practice it , it definitely is a practical combo.
Ok i think you forgot the qcf+B but I understood the combo
I see that the combo finisher (corner) is usually the same for every combo she has, it's dp+C DC qcf+B, f+B, air qcb+D , dp+C. Her dp+C really hurts, I think that's why you dont really need to use the DM in combos, plus her DMs don't have an unscaled hit if I'm not mistaken ?

Is there a way to never miss the j.f+B in those combos with the EX phenix arrow ? Which jump is it ? Only the normal forward one ? If that's the case maybe I can just hold  ;uf after the first EX then do the butt when she's in the air for a minimal miss chance ? Lol
I find her pretty hard to play because the hitconfirms are really quick if you choose to use lights and not super safe and kind of previsible if you use C+f.B
So my deduction is that everything revolves around the throw. What's the best way to force people to not infinitely jump and backdash when there is the danger of getting throwed ? Is it practical to buff-run the DM like a throw DM so if the guy is scared and gets into the air they take that damage ? Or is it too risky ? I don't know how safe this DM is, when I see an Athena whiff it I use an invincible move like EX Orochinagi to destroy it while she's still casting it, but I don't know about running and comboing etc.

I would love to have a good Athena to mix with my Robert on point.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on October 26, 2012, 09:28:11 PM
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Ok i think you forgot the qcf+B but I understood the combo
Indeed, I forgot it D: .

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that's why you dont really need to use the DM in combos, plus her DMs don't have an unscaled hit if I'm not mistaken ?
Her DM doesn't have an unscaled hit and only does 50 more damage than her dp+C (dp+C does 150damage), so it's pretty useless as combo finisher if you can land dp+C instead. The same goes for EX DM. Never use it as combo ender, there are better ways to spend the two meters for more damaging combos.
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Is there a way to never miss the j.f+B in those combos with the EX phenix arrow ?
Buffering the jump can help, but beside that, there's unfortunately no way to make it unmissable, you'll have to practice the combo.

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Which jump is it ? Only the normal forward one ? If that's the case maybe I can just hold   after the first EX then do the butt when she's in the air for a minimal miss chance ? Lol
It's the "super hop" one. So, down > lightly tap up forward for the jump. Holding up forward won't work.

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What's the best way to force people to not infinitely jump and backdash when there is the danger of getting throwed ?
Midscreen there's not much you can do unfortunately, You could do j.C xx Phoenix Arrow. It's cancellable even on whiff so if they jump they eat the j.C and if they don't, phoenix arrow is safe on block against most characters. Be ready to tech a throw though.

Once they are cornered you can use jump f+B if you think they are going to jump or backdash. j.f+B as air to air puts them in juggle state and grants you a full combo. (j.f+B, air qcb B, dp C for a no meter one, just use the drive cancel variants if you have meter)

Do it a few times (though you'd most likely kill at least one character if your opponent jumps/backdashes all the time, since you can easily do more than 500 damage with that j.f+B opening), and when they'll be trained not to backdash/jump, that's when you throw them.
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Is it practical to buff-run the DM like a throw DM so if the guy is scared and gets into the air they take that damage ? Or is it too risky ? I don't know how safe this DM is, when I see an Athena whiff it I use an invincible move like EX Orochinagi to destroy it while she's still casting it, but I don't know about running and comboing etc.
It's not worth it/it's too risky. Athena's DM is punishable with a full jump in combo if your opponent knows what he's doing.
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I would love to have a good Athena to mix with my Robert on point.
Keep working on her then ! I can guarantee she's good. Don't believe that "Athena is bottom tier" BS ! If you ever have any questions just ask. I lurk this board quite often, so I'll answer any questions you may have.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: sammy5m1th on October 26, 2012, 11:44:19 PM
So, saw a post by Tikok that said 407 was the most damage Athena could get off of a command grab in the corner for one drive and for some reason I felt the undying urge to challenge that.  What I was able to find was with a slight tweak to the combo that was posted I could get 420 dmg instead of 407 dmg.

Original:  hcf+C, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, f+B, qcb+D, dp+C = 407 dmg

If you sub out the f+B after the drive cancel for a short hop j.f+B you can squeeze a bit more damage out of the qcb+D since you'll be higher in the air.  Makes it a bit harder to hit with though so you'll need to be careful.  So the notation would be:

Edit:  hcf+C, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, J.f+B, j.qcb+D, dp+C = 420 dmg

I did find that the damage fluctuates by 1 or 2 points depending oh how many times j.qcb+D hits though.  Other versions that I was messing with removed the second psycho ball at the beginning for a second short hop j.f+B into j.qcb+D which can net about 413 but it's a lot harder so I wouldn't recommend it (might build more meter though, didn't think to check).  

Oh, and if anyone is working on the mid screen off of command grab butt loop I find it helps to walk forward and the instant you cross under them duck and hyper hop into the j.f+B.  Since just walking and hopping will put you to far ahead of them, that slight stall seems to help.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Shaman on November 07, 2012, 02:52:42 PM
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Keep working on her then ! I can guarantee she's good. Don't believe that "Athena is bottom tier" BS ! If you ever have any questions just ask. I lurk this board quite often, so I'll answer any questions you may have.
Yeah don't worry about the tier subject. People arguing that Athena is low tier are not understanding this game and can't analyse why she isn't played (and the answer to this question is because her combos/confirms are really execution heavy)
Ok for the C whiff cancel into phenix arrow, it seems to be only working when she's at a low height in the air, hop seems to work at every height but you can't do that at the top of a normal jump.
The corner throw combo has this good point that there is no real timing issue, you can do dpC (DC) qcfB, then keep  ;fd held and mash  ;b to have the command attack

The throw to HD combo is pretty hard but I found that I can manage to start it more often by holding  ;df during the throw animation then doing  ;uf ,  ;fd  ;b ;c the quickest possible. Actually the failed attempts are resulting in punishable situations so I think I'm gonna train this very hard to have a low chance to miss.
I also think that without meter, the best you have to do during the throw is to let your opponent hit the ground for the 125 dmg which is pretty nice (but doesnt give meter to anyone), and to backdash -> phenix arrow 2 or 3 times to get some bar.
What do you guys think about this ?
I find there is not enough japanese Athenas on Gamespot etc. videos, pretty sad because they could teach us some setups. But I think Tikok's gameplan is close to what you have to do with the character, aka run away to fill your meter while your enemy thinks youre going to hadotrap him, then let him come and harass until you can do a throw combo.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Tikok on November 07, 2012, 04:35:00 PM
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I also think that without meter, the best you have to do during the throw is to let your opponent hit the ground for the 125 dmg which is pretty nice (but doesnt give meter to anyone), and to backdash -> phenix arrow 2 or 3 times to get some bar.
What do you guys think about this ?
I do something simillar to this actually. I let him fall and do one backdash phoenix arrow. That way you have enough time to do a safe jump/ambiguous crossup after.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: sammy5m1th on November 08, 2012, 04:42:31 AM
If you're desperate for the damage off of a mid screen command grab with no meter you can go with a really late C psycho sword, you can net about 151 if you hit with the whole thing.  Pretty high risk since C psycho sword is so slow but if you really need the damage it's an option.  Trying to work on doing a short hop C into dash under mix ups personally.

@Shaman:

Yeah the corner throw combo Tikok posted is definitely better on the whole than the one I looked into, just wanted to see if I could beat its damage.  Actually switched my one drive combo to that one since it's so easy.

Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: GuamoKun on January 12, 2013, 02:47:25 AM
I've been on a reaaaaally long hiatus on this site for a lot of reasons but I have been playing KoF since launch haha and Athena is my main and waifu

KOF XIII - Athena Asamiya (Combos, mix ups & safe jump) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dw-iRFAYzs#ws)

I found this video and haven't seen it really discussed. Not mine since I'm very scrubby and stuff.

I've had some success with the "safe jump" set-up in the video (hcf+A/C j. fj.D)

but has anyone else tried this?

btw @Tikok dat ex teleport into cmd grab. YES~
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Ryujin on January 23, 2013, 06:36:25 PM
I sat down with her for the first time this weekend, and boy do I love her meter gain from TKed B Phoenix Arrows. Going to put her on point some tonight at our weeklies, I feel like she can be a phenomenal battery.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on April 17, 2013, 01:58:07 AM
This combo can only be done on a backturned opponent? (Yes, that is a question I'm asking)

Silly Athena combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyLK2EaWMCc#ws)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: PBF on April 19, 2013, 12:03:50 AM
This combo can only be done on a backturned opponent?

From what I've found out when I recorded this, yes. I saw other variations in other (and way cooler) combo videos and decided to try out while recording it. The thing about the backturn is that you can dash under your opponent due to him/her/it not being directly in the corner, then hit f.B (on the ground, no hopping required). On the second hit of the phoenix bomb switch your input to b.B. The engine will recognize it as a f.B which will allow you to continue with the looping.

It is possible to set it up from another butt loop with your back to the corner, as illustrated in the video below. Not sure about the practicality of it though, other than looking cool and silly at the same time.

Athena phoenix bomb loop from the corner 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS1GDpklHNQ#ws)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on April 19, 2013, 08:48:04 PM
^You're the maker of those videos?

Welcome to Dream Cancel, dude. You should introduce yourself in the Meet and Greet section.

I would've never thought that posting someone's video would make them sign up for Dream Cancel! xD

Also, good job on your videos!
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: desmond_kof on April 21, 2013, 04:51:50 PM
I'm totally late on this Totally Casual videos on Athena. Both videos feature advance combos using her butt loop and some j.f+B corner to corner combos from her hcf+P.

KoF XIII : Totally Casual "Teach me" vid (Athena / Duo Lon / Ash) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWlmrmhpWqo#)

Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: choysauce on June 24, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
Man, it's been a while since i've been on here.

But I want to try and upgrade tech before EVO rolls around. I'll be trying to optimize her corner combo stuff, esp with HD combos.

If anyone sees this, lets try and compete to make efficient and easy combos.

this is my best 2 bar, 1 drive corner punish so far

cl.C > qcb+A > (link) dp+A (2 hits) > (DC) hcbx2+A > (land) hcbx2+A (512 dmg)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: desmond_kof on June 24, 2013, 09:24:49 PM
Man, it's been a while since i've been on here.

But I want to try and upgrade tech before EVO rolls around. I'll be trying to optimize her corner combo stuff, esp with HD combos.

If anyone sees this, lets try and compete to make efficient and easy combos.

this is my best 2 bar, 1 drive corner punish so far

cl.C > qcb+A > (link) dp+A (2 hits) > (DC) hcbx2+A > (land) hcbx2+A (512 dmg)

I like to do a variant of this but with her hcf+P command throw:

http://youtu.be/f5fzfjx4-tU?t=5m11s (http://youtu.be/f5fzfjx4-tU?t=5m11s)

which is hcf+P, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C (3) (SC), air hcbx2+P, (land), hcbx2+P = 544 dmg

There is a combo earlier in that video that I saw only using maybe 1 drive in the corner that was powerful that I may need to experiment around with. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: desmond_kof on August 16, 2013, 07:21:45 PM
Pretty cool combo at 4:34 in this video: http://youtu.be/f3obYBr_ZRs?t=4m34s (http://youtu.be/f3obYBr_ZRs?t=4m34s)

Looks like hcf+P, sj. f+B, (wait), qcb+D, dp+C (1) (DC), qcf+B, j.f+B, (wait), qcb+D, dp+C (3) (SC), air hcbx2+P (land), dp+A = 474 dmg

I'll put in the damage output later, I'll just edit this post.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on November 02, 2013, 12:25:04 AM
King of Fighters XIII - Athena Back against the Wall command grab options (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLEbHk93Tn4#ws)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: desmond_kof on November 02, 2013, 12:48:48 AM
^ This is great, I'll post it up on the front page!
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Azik21 on November 02, 2013, 05:06:07 AM
So, saw a post by Tikok that said 407 was the most damage Athena could get off of a command grab in the corner for one drive and for some reason I felt the undying urge to challenge that.  What I was able to find was with a slight tweak to the combo that was posted I could get 420 dmg instead of 407 dmg.

Original:  hcf+C, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, f+B, qcb+D, dp+C = 407 dmg

If you sub out the f+B after the drive cancel for a short hop j.f+B you can squeeze a bit more damage out of the qcb+D since you'll be higher in the air.  Makes it a bit harder to hit with though so you'll need to be careful.  So the notation would be:

Edit:  hcf+C, qcb+A, qcb+C, dp+C, DC, qcf+B, J.f+B, j.qcb+D, dp+C = 420 dmg

I did find that the damage fluctuates by 1 or 2 points depending oh how many times j.qcb+D hits though.  Other versions that I was messing with removed the second psycho ball at the beginning for a second short hop j.f+B into j.qcb+D which can net about 413 but it's a lot harder so I wouldn't recommend it (might build more meter though, didn't think to check).  

Oh, and if anyone is working on the mid screen off of command grab butt loop I find it helps to walk forward and the instant you cross under them duck and hyper hop into the j.f+B.  Since just walking and hopping will put you to far ahead of them, that slight stall seems to help.

I consistently get 421.  I find it easier to take a step backwards then qcb+A after command grab.
King of Fighters XIII - Athena command grab max damage in corner (50% Drive) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdn6m3DQ8MU#ws)

Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Malik on February 13, 2014, 05:03:39 PM
More Match Up Tips by GuttsCL
KOF XIII - Match up tips EP03: Athena against Kim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e3rxJ73npk#ws)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: marchefelix on April 25, 2014, 11:11:05 PM
KOF XIII // Athena Combo optimizado 2PG/1DC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyiJ7GUW6RA#ws)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: obiiwan on July 19, 2014, 09:32:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y8kQSRRuNc&list=LLTiANNHb3_nSKhN0PLu9_vA&index=8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y8kQSRRuNc&list=LLTiANNHb3_nSKhN0PLu9_vA&index=8)

9:00

Can somebody explain how does he land the command throw into f+B, qcb+D, f+b, qcb+d.
does he jump for both f+Bs, or is the first one done off the ground? are those short hops?
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Azik21 on July 20, 2014, 05:52:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y8kQSRRuNc&list=LLTiANNHb3_nSKhN0PLu9_vA&index=8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y8kQSRRuNc&list=LLTiANNHb3_nSKhN0PLu9_vA&index=8)

9:00

Can somebody explain how does he land the command throw into f+B, qcb+D, f+b, qcb+d.
does he jump for both f+Bs, or is the first one done off the ground? are those short hops?

He does grounded  ;fd ;b ex phoenix arrow then hyper hop  ;fd ;b ex phoenix arrow.  It will corner carry to land the hd bypass from pretty much full screen (about 95%)  Thanks for asking about this because I didn't know how to do it till now
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: obiiwan on July 21, 2014, 08:34:32 AM
I see you're an Athena player, can you test this out for me if you haven't already done so?

Are you sure that he does the first f+B off the ground and not with a manual hyperhop?
I was trying with the "off the ground" variation for the first f+B, and with a manual hyper hop for the second, but when I get the second f+B (in the air) to hit, my EX Phoenix arrow hits, but not fully, the second part whiffs, making it impossible to continue the combo
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Azik21 on July 21, 2014, 07:28:02 PM
yes I'm positive.  I forgot to mention it is a screen specific combo.  You will not get two reps of ex phoenix arrow unless you are more then half screen away from the corner your going towards.
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: sammy5m1th on August 04, 2014, 06:48:10 AM
Yeah, its grounded f+B and then a hyper hop f+B, I use that one a fair bit but it can't be done corner to corner.  If you're closer than about half screen you leave out the second EX arrow and just do light arrow and follow up or HD bypass the hyper hop f+B.  It's also important to note that you need to do the double EX arrow version ASAP because if they are to low to the ground when you hit with f+B then the ball part of EX arrow will hit and the kick won't which will end your combo early.

Personally I'm still working on command grab into butt loop.  I can do it but there's a lot of judgment calls that go into it and I'd like to find a way to time/space it out to where it's like the non-command grab butt loops and you can always just walk forward and hop or walk forward and hyper hop without any variance.

As a side note, I found a combo video that goes over a lot of different combos from various positions, starters, and amounts of meter.  Pretty sure it's all old news but might be helpful to someone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWwJY5rt52k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWwJY5rt52k)
Title: Re: Athena Asamiya (Console)
Post by: Azik21 on April 13, 2015, 08:27:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Ab9Q-Yizk&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Ab9Q-Yizk&feature=youtu.be)

Silly mixups and a corner 6 frame safe jump from command grab (yes I know there's no point)