Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Maxima => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 06:44:53 AM
-
(http://i39.tinypic.com/29fcxaa.jpg)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
Dynamite Drop - ;bk/ ;fd+ ;c/ ;d
Command Normals
M9 Missile - ;df + ;c
Special Moves
M4 Vapor Cannon - ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a / ;c (ground or air) Has Guard Point properties (more in the ;c) *
M19 Blitz Cannon - ;fd ;dn ;df + ;b / ;d *
Maxima Press - ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk + ;b/ ;d *
∟Press Plus - ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a/ ;c > Super Cancel only
Desperation moves
Double Vapor Cannon - ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;a/ ;c
Neomax
Maxima Laser - ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk x2 + ;a ;c
Maxima's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Maxima_(XIII)).
Console changes:
-df.C has better recovery
*No recoil after air vapor canon
*Guard points on normal are now cancellable by specials
*Hit box on the follow up to EX Maxima Press improved. Can now hit from counter CD.
-No bounce back when EX Maxima Press is guarded. He’s now more vulnerable to punishes.
Producer Yamamoto says: df.C can be used effectively as an early (okiwaza) anti-air as the recovery has improved. Also counter df.C and counter j.CD can be followed by EX Maxima Press for extra damage, possible to counter-confirm. Pressuring the opponent by earning precise follow-up damage is the ideal way to play Maxima.
-
Reserved
-
Reserved
-
So, anybody have any ideas how to deal with cross-ups with the "Big Guy"? Aside from a well-timed st.D, I'm not figuring how to get around it.
-
- Standing C GP-Cancel into Vapor Cannon / Blitz Cannon
- Firing up That D Press to jet away to semi-safety
- Crouch C? I'd love for this + GP-Cancel to me the definitive answer, but we know how trusty this usually is.
- Back Hop or Forward Run to escape sunscathed, depening on how they hit
- ROLL!
- Backhop so that you take the reset hit, and flip out to a more GP-happy position
- (Waste) EX Blitz Cannon to get the heck out of there.
- (Waste) EX Press to escape
- (Waste!) Neomax a bit earlier to create that "You can't jump over me!" invisible barrier that forces them to fall into the Neomax.
I think I depend on just blocking... and then letting them do something throw-punishable first, though. Since he's so tall, I find it pretty easy to block "Early", and let them get desperate as they try to crack open the Iron Turtle...
I can say I found his normal DM Double Vapor Cannon to be a much better movement-controller than I initially gave it credit for. They can't do ANYTHING stupid at all while within that range. It punished poorly-spaced sweeps and normally-safe incoming moves very easily. And the Step-forward for the EX Vapor truly helps give him a near half-screen 2 meter punish to many things (like Hien-shippukyaku Roberts, Sweep/Backflip Kenso Fireball spam, or Leona's that end blockstrings with X-calibur) that people normally consider fairly safe. (EX press accomplishes this too, but you might wanna land the DM damage by itself, or spend 2 meters on a EX DM, rather than 3 + SC on EX press to EX DM... options!)
-
st.C will often leave you facing the other direction. This is the same with Vapor Cannon.
If someone crosses you up, you also can't do EX M19 Blitz Cannon because it approaches at a diagonal. If you let someone cross you up, you'll miss the move for certain. The amount of time it takes you to land is like doing a DP on any other character, which is free damage for your opponent.
Crouch C needs to be well timed, but it's also the same problem with st.C as it might leave you facing the wrong direction.
I figure I'm looking for more offensive options, but I guess waiting for an opening by blocking or hopping backwards helps.
-
Best you can do is just block or stop the attempt before he even gets to cross you up.
-
st.C will often leave you facing the other direction. This is the same with Vapor Cannon.
I'm trying to remember if I've ever turned around with the window of time the GP hit causes, and done a "corrected-direction" move. I believe I have a time or 2 in there (and I've run under a crossup attempt, and landed a Blitlz cannon before they landed), but it's nothing I've tested to any extremity.
But yeah, I prefer turtling up with him. His increased guard gauge helps, and GP is gonna catch SOMETHING eventually.
-
I'm been having a few issues with offense too. Rather than waste meter on whiffed EX Presses/Vapors, I just wait for a hit on my guard and GCCD to get out of there. I'm really having problems using GP to stop things. Certain projectiles that st.D will GP, cr.C won't and vice versa. Its hard for me to decide which GP move to use when. Though I have to say, C Vapor Cannon is so free in blockstrings against fidgety opponents.
What are you guys doing in terms of his neutral game? I'm running him on anchor, thanks to all of your advice Reiki/SAB.
My general strategy:
-Scare tactics with A Vapor Cannon. Condition them to look for it, then run in and B Press/blockstring (40% Guard Guage gone)/or GP move depending on what the situation calls for.
-Lots of j.CD, and comboing if it CHs. Also doing a late whiff j.CD into B Press once they start blocking.
-Roll into B press, punish with B press, etc. Then run ambiguous splash/empty hop low/B Press setups in the corner.
I'm still not really familiar with his normals. st.D is usually my go-to GP move. cl.C GP is good for AA, but it resets them and you get only 1 hit for negligible damage. Far C is terrible to whiff and has to literally be psychic, plus the GP doesn't feel like it lasts as long as the others. I usually do DP+D preemptively or df+C.
-
Max is the biggest factor on my team easily. He's a monster. GP is too strong. Most trouble I have with him is getting through projectile spam, but knowing when to roll and when to nullify with the GP on normals or Vapor Cannon hit(A vapor cannon nullifies on hit, C version has some other degree of GP before hit) is extremely handy.
Basically, I throw out st. D whenever. It eats up so much shit. Stops supers and projectiles. I use it preemptively. Also st. C to stuff things, if they run in it turns into cl.C and still maintains a degree of GP so it's very likely to eat up attacks while also being easy to hit-confirm into the combo.
Rushdown wise, I just do the above. Try to be a wall. Might do blowback->Vapor cannon to shut down both vertical and horizontal space plus if blowback is CH then I auto into Vapor Cannon. But you kinda dont want this to whiff but just keep in mind that you have a degree of GP on both moves so sometimes it works out quite nicely. While inside you can do cl.C, d/f+C, light Vapor Cannon, since the string is basically safe and takes a nice amount from guard bar. But you don't want to attack wrecklessly and risk getting reversaled or guard-rolled. You should mix in B version Press when you feel you have them shut down. They'll start jumping, d/f+C is so good for stuffing people in the air and you might get some CHs in which you can do into Vapor Cannon or Blitz Cannon. Also Blitz Cannons when you clearly expect a jump-in are deadly. Cl.C works alright for preventing jumps while in close range.
Don't forget about cr. C. It stuffs quite a bit of things. At the right timing, the GP on this move completely eats up lows and you can go into combo.
Under pressure, sometimes it's wise to go ahead and waste that bar on EX Blitz. This is Max's get the fuck off me move. A dragonunch with complete invincibility. Most times, the knockdown from this is all it takes to get back on the pressure game, or return to "wall mode" while you anticipate them either doing something stupid or tightening up.
Jumpins, of course j.CD is good. Hop C-> air Vapor. Cross-up splash into combo or safe string. J.D to get in over zoning.
Um, cant think of much else. That's pretty much it for me. I run Max 2nd and dont even really use supers as I save the meter for EX Blitz moments or NeoMax if the match has been hell and I can get a clean opening. Or combo'ing into EX Press->EX Vapor loop rinse, repeat if I have the meter and drive and just want to style on them.
The preferred playing style would be up to the players discretion and should prob just be switched up according to the situation. Me, I'm pretty brave with him, so I'm confident once I get in. It's just a matter of actually getting in sometimes. And not just being close, you can play a decent midrange game with him for people who like to stick shit out. Those normals hurt alot and once people get tired of eating them, they'll play into your hands. If they try to rush you, great, he has tools for this. But you dont want them going back fullscreen, as your only option is either trying to get back in, or baiting the startup of a projectile or jump and wasting 3 bars to beam them. 2 bars if you HD first, but the fact that you even HD'ed at all may make them be like wtf and you can start to run in. Even if it's people you play regularly or who are familiar with Max, still doesn't change the fact that they cant escape GP or command grabs. Or getting baited multiple ways. In dry matches, they still have to respect shit and blockstrings and contend with GP. So yea lol.
-
So for those that might be wondering, Saiki is not a fun match-up for Maxima.
His fireball's hitbox seems to be ahead of the actual image so you have to guardpoint it early. You also cannot guard point that dumb super slow fireball. It's just not gonna happen.
-
That's good to know. I haven't had the chance to play a Saiki yet so I'll keep that in mind.
During Toronto's first tournament (2 weeks ago), this guy put his Terry on anchor and I couldn't take him. I had to switch to my sub anchor Kim, because he kept beating me air-to-air+playing solid runaway. I think that match-up is pretty tough for Max.
-
The more I try it, the more I feel I should mention it.
As a possible anti-air, have you guys considered doing a TKed (Tiger-Knee'd) Air Vapor Cannon. Actually, what can we use it for? If you're not familiar with what Tiger-Kneeing is, it's when you do a qcf or qcb move, but stop at the up back position. After a delay, you press the button and you do the move off the ground almost instantly.
I've been using it and I think if you jump back and do it, it covers a lot of space and has some nice priority. I don't think it will help if they're right on top of you though, but that's never happened.
Also, to guard point a cross-up, I've been trying out close D. I know it's slower, but it's actually very useful in stopping crossups.
EDIT:
I've been playing with the move for a bit, but here's a list of spacing for moves you guys might want to know. Let me be clear that this is the MAXIMUM effective range of Maxima's normals, specials, etc. The spacing was tested using how many steps from point blank will the move still hit.
As a reference, in training mode: You are 8 steps away from your opponent's avatar.
Maxima Press (B) - 2 steps
st.A - 3 steps
st.CD- 3 steps (Note: Maxima takes a step forward so it potentially covers 4)
d.C - 3 steps
st.B - 3 steps
st.C (far) - 4 steps
st.D (far) - 5 steps
d.D - 5 steps
Double Vapor Cannon - 6 steps
Vapor Cannon (A) - 7 steps (Note: Maxima takes a step forward so it potentially covers 8)
Vapor Cannon (C) - 8 steps (Note: Maxima takes a step forward so it potentially covers 9)
EX Vapor Cannon - 9 steps (Note: Maxima takes a step forward so it potentially covers 10)
EX Double Vapor Cannon - 9 steps (Note: Maxima takes a step forward so it potentially covers 10)
Hopefully this is helpful in considering the spacing and the proper punish at a given range.
-
Not that this would impact a match, but I figured I'd pop in with a tidbit. Was messing around in casuals with a Kula player with Maxin'Relaxin' and I spaced a Vapor Cannon a little too far out expecting to catch a Ray/Layspin counterhit but he pressed the wrong button did counter slap and OUT CAME A PROJECTILE. After exploring a bit it seems the vapor counts as a projectile and definitely be Kula slapped and shell get a counterhit from it. We didn't test to see if Athena can reflect.
-
^That's very interesting.
Looking for a new team to learn and took Maxima to practice and wow, this guy's damage output is crazy. 45% for just 1 power bar? A hit-confirmable, relatively easy, and short 4 bar HD kill combo? Yes, please.
How's the timing on his guard points? Like parrying and just defense or more delayed like Ryo's parry?
Now to decide who to run him with, definitely thinking of 2nd position for him.
-
Guard point is active before the move comes out. You'll notice most of Maxima's moves have very long start up so it's a useful tool because it gives a few extra frames to goof off with in timing. You have to time it so your start-up frames collide with the opponent's active frames. That's basically how it works.
For example, st.C is 5 frames start-up. You'd time your move so that it absorbs the hit of the opponent's move.
You can look at the wiki thread where I posted how to use the guardpoints to your advantage. What I need to perfect is cancelling guard point on command. If I do that, it'll be a great improvement.
-
Guard point is active before the move comes out. You'll notice most of Maxima's moves have very long start up so it's a useful tool because it gives a few extra frames to goof off with in timing. You have to time it so your start-up frames collide with the opponent's active frames. That's basically how it works.
For example, st.C is 5 frames start-up. You'd time your move so that it absorbs the hit of the opponent's move.
You can look at the wiki thread where I posted how to use the guardpoints to your advantage. What I need to perfect is cancelling guard point on command. If I do that, it'll be a great improvement.
Thanks man, I'll read up and practice some more.
-
How are you guys dealing with lameout? This is the real problem I'm having with Maxima, who I generally use on point.
-
You just want to slowly advance and block. Once you're within about 9 or so steps from them, all you need is a good knockdown. You can score it with a C vapor cannon, which will guard point a fireball and hit your opponent. You can hop in and do qcb+AC (EX Air Vapor cannon) to force your way in while also protecting you with guardpoint.
-
What are my options against early jump-ins like Clark/Ralf's j.CD or Iori's early j.C. Moves that have a big hitbox and hit near the peak of my opponents jump are hard to AA. Reacting to a hop is hard enough, but using Maxima's slow normals to GP them is ridiculous. I get rushed way too easily because of this. At a recent tournament in my city, I got so overwhelmed in GFs I switched out to Kim/Vice.
edit: Here's a video of the Grand Finals sets. More links on the side as well. A&C's First Tournament 2012 - KOFXIII Grand Finals - Samir vs [YRSF]Raynex Set 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPYQBmavr44#ws)
Against Clark for example, I couldn't beat his j.CD so I could try to block the first one and st.A/st.C if he jumped again. Problem is, I'm already falling victim to his mix-up attempt. If I block the first j.CD he could instead B SAB afterwards and catch me pressing anti-hop buttons.
I'm also getting beat air-to-air ALOT. It feels like j.CD is too slow alot of the time...I'm not sure :(
-
Will watch the video. I'll let you know what I think below. Also, check out the Match-up thread and tell me what you think.
EDIT:
So the first match, I'm seeing you get OCVed by Clark, but this is because of some things you're doing that you're doing in every character. For one, you're not respecting Clark's space. You have King, who could easily zone Clark, but you're running in. With Maxima, you really can't do that because most of your moves wind up not respecting his space.
Another thing, I think the big thing here, his roll setup confused you. He rolled in on you and did his B command grab a lot. He'd roll and do machine gun punch too. What I'd suggest, if you have meter, is to neutral hop. If you feel like you're going to get grabbed, neutral hopping stops him for free. You can even do j.D and smack him for a full combo. He really LEANED into that crap. I know how you feel; I have to deal with it a lot against CharREX. If he stops doing the B grab and goes for a normal combo, you can also wake up and do a command grab. He did not seem sloppy with his rolls, but you can feel it out if he's going to be behind you.
So finally: How to deal with early jump CD
The active frames on the move are long and they're vertical. You're likely not going to beat it air to air. If he's going to try to keep you in, with any character, I'd throw out a move that's in invincible on start-up or something I know will trade. For one, Maxima's st.A is five frames and will likely trade with Clark if you throw it out. It's a great deterrent for hops. If he's jumping really high, but you're certain he's not going to cross-up, I'd throw out a df+C. It costs you nothing, you'll get counter hit, and probably break even. If you think he's going to do it. If you have meter, you can use DP+BD. You could do the regular Double Vapor Cannon. If you're feeling you can time it just right, you can neutral jump and do EX Air Vapor Cannon. High in the air, you'll land way before he does and be able to time an EX Maxima Press for a pretty nice corner combo.
Let me touch on more about the df+C. If he's really jumping high, I wouldn't do it. You'll likely miss. However, if you think he's going to hop and do it, like time it real deep? I'd do it and follow it up with DP+B. Put your dummy in practice mode, as Clark, and hop at Maxima for a meaty CD. As Maxima, do df+C and the dp+B. You'll notice you'll counter hit him. You can follow it up with dp+B. Now he's knocked down. Staying outside his grab range, go for a meaty sweep. You can try to set the dummy to do his B grab or D grab, but what will likely happen is you'll hit him as he wakes up. If he blocks, you scored 233 damage. If he didn't, he's knocked down again and you did 300 damage to 333 damage to him. This is very serious punishment. You want to make him scared of YOUR hop space now.
In the corner, that's a little different. If you try to do something like even punch him, your st.A or st.C might whiff and he'll hit you on the way down. If he times it meaty, doing st.D is great. Why? Even if the move his slow, you have guard point. You can CANCEL guard point at any time and nail him with a regular vapor cannon or a D grab if he's too slow to react on the way down.
If you think he's gonna jump over you and if you press a button he'll cross you up, you can do C vapor cannon the other way (qcf+C). What this does is puts him in the corner and guard points his jump in. Giving you the opportunity to hit him when he lands.
-
Maybe block and punish on land? The blockstun on jumps is short enough that you should be able to get a jab out at least. After that , maybe so for some sort of mixup?
Just a guess on my part.
-
Maybe block and punish on land? The blockstun on jumps is short enough that you should be able to get a jab out at least. After that , maybe so for some sort of mixup?
Just a guess on my part.
The problem is that CD moves create longer amounts of blockstun. Granted, Clark can't grab you, but you can't really counter him. Normally, you're right. He could just block it and punish, but jump CD's blockstun makes it difficult.
EDIT:
Was working on HD combos with Maxima today. I know, HD combos with this guy seem unrealistic, but hear me out. Now, usually, you'd do an HD combo like st.D, df+C starter. That's hard to land unless your opponent lost his mind and decided to do a DP or something really unsafe. Some people will do that at the start of the round, but lets assume they respect Maxima and they won't.
You can get an HD combo off his low B. It's his only combo confirming low normal. That's important to note. The way I've been working it out is doing low B, low A, df+BC (HD bypass) or d.B, st.B, st.BC =>. st.B in HD mode cannot be chained together with Vapor Cannon, but EX vapor cannon and EX Maxima press will link.
The problem is I can't always control what happens. Depending on if you slide input the HD mode, you can HD bypass into st.C or st.B immediately. If you do the input at the right time without sliding, you'll just dash forward. Most of the time, I'm slide inputting by mistake, but this is something to note. If you press C before B in the slide input, the C will come out. If you press B before C, B will come out.
For this string, you will hit your opponent with EX Vapor Cannon or EX Maxima press no matter what comes out (Except if you naked dash). At this point, with three bars, you could HD cancel into Neomax for 600+ damage from Maxima press or hit them with the neomax/MC into Neomax after a wall bounce with EX Vapor Cannon.
-
A whiffed max canceled Maxima Laser has otg properties.
-
But why would you whiff max cancel? It's pretty easy to regular Max cancel it.
-
It's just something to know as it can follow up from a regular blowbacks and hcb+K. I think it would be best use as a last round combo ender, if Maxima lands a ground blowback. Particularly, this combo that deals 500 damage:
3 Stocks and HD Mode
CD, (HD activation/ HD Bypass), qcfx2+A/C, (whiff Max Cancel) hcbx2+AC
-
But why would you whiff max cancel? It's pretty easy to regular Max cancel it.
The same reason why you'd do it for EX Kyo and Kula.
-
So, I'm trying it and this is what happens.
I do CD
-> I activate, do qcf x2 +A and nothing happens
-> I HD Bypass into qcf x2 after CD, whiff, and nothing happens
-> I counterhit with CD, do the super, Max Cancel, and all of that hits for 760 damage.
-
It's just something to know as it can follow up from a regular blowbacks and hcb+K. I think it would be best use as a last round combo ender, if Maxima lands a ground blowback. Particularly, this combo that deals 500 damage:
3 Stocks and HD Mode
CD, (HD activation/ HD Bypass), qcfx2+A/C, (whiff Max Cancel) hcbx2+AC
How is this an otg setup if CD isn't a hard knockdown?
-
It's just something to know as it can follow up from a regular blowbacks and hcb+K. I think it would be best use as a last round combo ender, if Maxima lands a ground blowback. Particularly, this combo that deals 500 damage:
3 Stocks and HD Mode
CD, (HD activation/ HD Bypass), qcfx2+A/C, (whiff Max Cancel) hcbx2+AC
How is this an otg setup if CD isn't a hard knockdown?
Actually, this is all very relevant because you can HD bypass his SUPER. Just do qcfx2 +CB. Dude, that's ridiculous. Off of any starter, you can do st.D, df+C (Super Bypass), Neomax. You could do st.C, super bypass, Neomax, that's retarded.
-
Actually, this is all very relevant because you can HD bypass his SUPER. Just do qcfx2 +CB. Dude, that's ridiculous. Off of any starter, you can do st.D, df+C (Super Bypass), Neomax. You could do st.C, super bypass, Neomax, that's retarded.
That's nothing new though, the entire cast can do this pretty much. You basically sacrifice damage for less execution.
-
Yeah, by the time you confirm st.D, df.C...if you're gonna burn the 3 meters, just do the full shit. It's not like Maxima's HD combos are the stuff people fear about executing.
-
It's not so great on other characters because they don't have a problem hitting an HD combo. Maxima has very big problems hitting an HD combo.
The most damaging Maxima combo for 3 bars is about 200 more damage for an additional 3 hits.
j.C, st.D, df+C [HDA], st.D, df+C, qcb+A, [HDC] qcfx2 +A, [MC] hcbx2 +AC = 958 dmg
What you're doing is taking the red stuff out and sacrificing maybe roughly 156 damage for one of the easiest HD combos ever for serious damage.
It's also hitting it. Almost no characters lose their combo on activation. Trust me, I've tried to pull this off in real tournament matches and it's difficult. At the HDA portion, if you don't time it properly, the hitstun on df+C wears off and you risk losing it. This is very useful because it's braindead and still does about the same amount of damage. Why risk dropping the input when you can just go for it?
-
It's just something to know as it can follow up from a regular blowbacks and hcb+K. I think it would be best use as a last round combo ender, if Maxima lands a ground blowback. Particularly, this combo that deals 500 damage:
3 Stocks and HD Mode
CD, (HD activation/ HD Bypass), qcfx2+A/C, (whiff Max Cancel) hcbx2+AC
How is this an otg setup if CD isn't a hard knockdown?
That's not an otg set-up. The otg factor is pointless because the whiff max canceled NM can be only used as an otg from hcb+K. The point of mentioning the otg aspect was just informantion in general.
-
Either way it goes, OTG Neomax, HD Bypass supers, any techniques we can pick up to etch out a win for the big guy is good. I'll be glad to do the first 15% necessary for the kill since this setups just so easy.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8WdUgLamN8&feature=player_embedded# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8WdUgLamN8&feature=player_embedded#)!
What I wanted to share was the possibility to cross under after the HCB+BD, qcb+AC loop in the same corner. Doing the loops makes it a legitimate HD combo, but what I feel this adds is crucial. It allows you to keep people in the corner.
Basically, after any combo that leads into hcb+BD (EX Maxima Press), follow up, into a [DC] qcb+AC (EX Vapor Cannon), you can run under them as they fall and do a df+C. After that, you can do this whole song and dance again OR any other finisher. The choice is yours! But the best part is they're stuck in the corner after it so you can keep the pressure on.
-
Anyone have tips for canceling ;dn ;db ;bk ;a into ;dn ;df ;fd x2 ;a or ;c?
I think I'm just not doing it quick enough, unless there's a shortcut.
-
I can't really give you tips on it. It's mostly a buffering thing. What I would do is do a combo like st.C, df+C, qcb+A, into qcfx2 +A
During the df+C, do qcb+A and before you see the motion come out for vapor cannon, just go in on the DM. The reason is that you have to do the motion on the impact of Vapor Cannon, not before or after. Use the long animation of df+C to get it in as fast as you can.
So the trick is really after df+C, do qcb+A as fast as you can and go into the qcfX2+A without pausing
The window is pretty small, but once you got it, you got it!
If you can't do that, what I would do is the qcb+A but drag along the sides into a half circle forward, then do a qcf+A. It's a little sloppy, but it guarantees you don't have to go back to neutral (Letting go of the stick or letting it go back to normal) to do the qcfX2 +A
-
Thank you, that made things a lot more clear for me.
Maxima is so much fun to play, it's ridiculous.
-
No problem. Sorry it took so long, I just didn't see it till now.
-
Here is Maxima's master class video:
KOFXIII Master Class 036 Maxima (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co2bwJd3jTg#ws)
Btw, anyone here that mains him wanna help out with his wiki?
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Maxima_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Maxima_%28XIII%29)
It needs some updating and some explanations on his moves. Thanks in advance.
-
Soon as I finish Terry, I'll get on it.
-
Hey guys, I don't understand how to fight against Maxima.
What should I do against his vapor canon? The only solution I found is to roll under and then punish it but it's difficult and require a huge amount of focus to do it on reaction. Or to sweep it but it's difficult too. There is an easier way?
Since the whole match up turns around this move I must understand how to beat it.
-
Who are you using?
Generally Maxima, like Goro, has a tough time against zoning and hit & run. When up close always start attacking with lows because most Maxima players love mashing punches for that auto guard. He has no answer to low attacks without meter, which can also make him a sitting duck on wake up.
Think of the vapor cannon as a fireball that hits hard, sort of like Ryo's fireball. Except its easier to jump in on him during the canon than on Ryo's fireball.
When jumping in on Maxima try to land your jump in deep, this way even if the vapor canon's auto guard activates you will still land in time to block. Overall, try not to challenge it needlessly, block.
Vapor cannon is also weak to lows and moves with upper body invincibility or low hit boxes (like Kula and Chin's slides etc.).
-
Yea, pretty much what Diavle said. The move is about 4 frames start-up and the strong one is telegraphed. Stick to doing low moves. Maxima doesn't have any overheads so you can generally pry him open by doing that. Also, cross ups are a key thing.
The one thing that wasn't mentioned is Maxima moves forward when he does Vapor cannon. This screws up spacing for him as if he whiffs someone jumping over him, he's wide open. Attacking from the air with cross ups is the best way to screw up Maxima. If you can't get in low, set yourself up for cross up situations. He doesn't have any tools to defend himself from moves like that that don't trade. Super jump is especially affective.
Fast characters like Duolon, Yuri, Athena, Mai, they all have normals to poke him out with lows or have fast enough light normals to poke through guard point too as well as the mobility to make it hard for Maxima.
Try what you feel works best.
-
This was already in the front page, but it deserves to be in here
KoF XIII : Today's Maxima ～Guard Point Report～ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08KjKQ-L1R4#ws)
-
I made a post about Maxima's Neomax doing more damage than expected, but foolishly didn't read the rule about Max Cancels (which makes the super not increase the hit count used in the formula). Disregard this post.
-
Maxi's Neomax is an anywhere juggle. So he can activate HD, jab you out of the air and lay waste to ya'.
-
Been a while since I posted in here, but since I've been up for a while, I really wanted to share something I think will be useful for Maxima players.
Maxima has a cross up he can perform on crouchers that leads into full combo, looks relatively ambiguous. Works on everyone in the cast too.
From point blank, do d.A and quickly hyper hop forward. Before you cross over, press B. You should cross the opponent up. As far as I know, you can't use any other normal to cross someone up. It's relatively fast for a cross up set up too.
Mix this in with your d.A pressure game and you can start to open people up more liberally with Maxima.
-
^Nice, I'll try that. My usual go to crossup for him is with jC, but thats with a normal jump not a hop.
Also, I skimmed through the wiki a little and are these accurate?
Now, for Maxima, he has 6 normal moves with guardpoint. Those are st.C and st.D (Close), st.C and st. D (far), d.C, and CD (Blowback). His C vapor cannon has guard point on start-up. EX Air Vapor Cannon has 360 degree guardpoint as well as his EX M19 Blitz Cannon (dp+BD). His regular DM has 360 degree guardpoint. Learning when and how to use guardpoint is a very important aspect. For example, only 1 normal move (d.C) can guardpoint low moves. Far D and close D can guardpoint mid area moves like fat fireballs. Far D can guardpoint multi-hit moves like Joe's Screw Upper or Ash's Thermidor as well as C Vapor Cannon. st.C (Far or Close) can stop jump-ins and can hit confirm into DMs. You can guardpoint attack grabs like Kyo's Kototsuki You (hcb+k) and any move that requires a hit. You can't guardpoint grabs like Leona's V Slasher DM or Vice's Splash.
I've never seen those two guard point low hitting attacks (one's you have to crouch to block). Both in matches and by experimenting in practice, they always lose to lows. The only ground move that has upper and lower guard point is Ex Dp+K. Other than that he has no moves/normals that guard point lows from what I can tell.
The most d.C will do is go over a low normal and hit the oppponen because of the way it hits and Maxima's arm span but never guard point.
Also, is it possible to guard point too late with Maxima? I've tried parry timing with his sC and d.C in practice and it always seems to work no matter how late I do it, seems his guard points are the closest thing to parrying in this game.
-
Could have sworn it GPed lows, atleast in arcade. Well, that explains why I keep getting hit by sweeps ;).
For Double Vapor Cannon, it visually has 360 degree guardpoint, but you're right. It does not have GP low (Which is misleading).
I'll make the necessary changes right now.
EDIT: In terms of guardpointing too late, it depends on when the move is active, when they recover, and when you started your move.
For example, if using far st.C or far st.D, pressing it off timing with the opponent's attacks will be fatal. You have to press it just as they're about to hit, but before the frames for the move become active. When the move becomes an active hitbox, the guardpoint frames are done (Which leads me to believe that you can only GP during startup of your move).
Also, you cannot guardpoint when the move becomes active if your hurtbox overlaps with it. You need atleast a frame to get the startups going. I don't know if it's in the first frame of the move that it starts to guardpoint, but you won't guardpoint any meaty moves after being knocked down.
You can also GP a move, but the time it takes to become an active hitbox could be slower. For example, Maxima uses st.D to guardpoint a hop CD from Mr. Karate. If he does it really late to the ground, he'll land much faster than my guardpoint becoming active. Even a guardpoint cancel might go right over him. You'd have to cancel immediately into a real fast EX special.
So because of these two instances, you can narrow down guardpoint active frames into the startup frames. However, if gp becomes active in the first frame of a moves animation (1st frame of start up), I don't know. Then it would be an actual parry with a HUGE buffer time.
-
On that note, I've been messing with guard point OS.
Examples:
Qcf+D~qcf+C: far D into DM if guard point activates. Great for ground game and counter hit leads to huge damage. However, if they take to the air this is fairly useless and the DM is too slow to connect. You can use EX for that.
Same concept works with stand C pretty well (qcb+AC is faster than level 1 DM - maybe that will work better for one bar). Nice part about DM though is its really difficult to punish (may not be possible outside of GC roll if you're not Andy/mai/Robert using neomax).
The most consistent is probably EX dp+K, if they're hopping around a lot. Too far and especially grounded and it won't connect though.
Sometimes just to see if they're paying attention I'll cancel to hcb+D slow cmd grab. Always amusing when it works.
- Stand B is super underutilized.
- I have a question: under what circumstances does the second hit of close C whiff? I was practicing against chin trying to find the best (consistent) HD confirm. Cr.B cr.A late activate (auto close C) seemed really consistent. Is it just spacing? Would it be better to use df.C after the first hit?
-
On that note, I've been messing with guard point OS.
Examples:
Qcf+D~qcf+C: far D into DM if guard point activates. Great for ground game and counter hit leads to huge damage. However, if they take to the air this is fairly useless and the DM is too slow to connect. You can use EX for that.
Same concept works with stand C pretty well (qcb+AC is faster than level 1 DM - maybe that will work better for one bar). Nice part about DM though is its really difficult to punish (may not be possible outside of GC roll if you're not Andy/mai/Robert using neomax).
The most consistent is probably EX dp+K, if they're hopping around a lot. Too far and especially grounded and it won't connect though.
Sometimes just to see if they're paying attention I'll cancel to hcb+D slow cmd grab. Always amusing when it works.
- Stand B is super underutilized.
- I have a question: under what circumstances does the second hit of close C whiff? I was practicing against chin trying to find the best (consistent) HD confirm. Cr.B cr.A late activate (auto close C) seemed really consistent. Is it just spacing? Would it be better to use df.C after the first hit?
There are actually some characters that can duck the second hit. At a particular range, I think the second hit doesn't have a hit box that is lower body so people can go under it with low B's or just a straight duck.
If you check out the video "Maxima guardpoints everything" there's a number of cool guard point sequences that can turn around the tides. It's very specialized so you can kind of get an idea of which you'd like to use in what situation, but if you have the situational awareness, GP countering is VERY useful!
-
Do you know if close C (1) xx df.C is more consistent at that range? Just trying to decide which HD confirm would be better to commit to muscle memory.
-
Do you know if close C (1) xx df.C is more consistent at that range? Just trying to decide which HD confirm would be better to commit to muscle memory.
st.C(1), df+C is pretty good because one st.C has really negligible push back. I use that for my hitconfirm, but if you're punishing a really unsafe move, you should do st.D. Off a ground poke though, d.A, df+C is a much more reliable HD hit confirm because it's fast and long reaching.
-
Yeah after playing some Maxima last night and getting successful reads off air EX vapor cannon into close C and having it whiff on the second hit frequently, I'm definitely gonna use df.C more. Thanks for the input!
-
this is somewhat left unnoticed but this simple/quick Maxima guide by SoCal's own Dirty Sanchez (Follow him on twitter @MechaMacGyver) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=541VLRpc-LQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=541VLRpc-LQ)