Dream Cancel Forum

King of Fighters XIII => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kane317 on August 17, 2010, 11:06:37 PM

Title: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Kane317 on August 17, 2010, 11:06:37 PM
If you would like to add something to this section, please post in this thread (http://www.youtube.com/embed/6da56NFWoNs).


Shortcuts/Sequential Buffering:

I'll post all the ones I know from previous KOFs as well, they should all work but if they don't please correct me.

-All qcf~hcb motions --> qcf x2~back + button
-Similarly, qcb~hcf --> qcb x2~f
-qcb~hcf --> qcb~db~f
-qcf~hcb --> qcf~df~b
-dp --> hcb~f

-Dash hcb x2 command throws (e.g Clark's DM)--> (somewhat close) hcb~f x2~hcb + button

-Canceling qcf into qcf x2 (e.g Shen's qcf+P, [DC] qcf x2+P) --> qcf + button, qcf+ button
-Canceling qcf into qcf~hcb (e.g Liz's qcf+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+P) --> qcf + button, hcb + button
-Canceling dp into qcf~hcb (e.g Robert's dp+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+P DM) --> dp + button, hcb + button
-Canceling c.d~u into c.b~f (e.g Leona's c.d~u+P, [DC] c.b~f+K) --> c.db/d~ub + button, [DC] uf (or f)+ button
-Canceling dp into qcf inside HD mode only (e.g Kyo's dp+P [1hit], [DC] qcf+P...) --> dp+P~P (Liz seems to be the only character that can do this outside of HD)
-Canceling dp into qcf (e.g K' dp+P, [DC] qcf+P)--> hcb~f+P, qcf+P
-Canceling dp into dp (e.g Yuri's dp+A, [DC] dp+K)--> dp+P, K: As long as the first motion is the same as the second motion and there's not too much lapse in between, you can just press the button again.


-Tricky motions like Shen's CABC can be hard to buffer.  You can start buffering it while getting up, in the air, during the ending frames of a move or even off a s.C itself.  A useful trick is to tap in this order (just hold the down motion the whole time): d.A, d.C, d.A, d.B (this will buffer the first 3 inputs) and press C when you want to activate the DM.  By doing this technique, Shen appears to only do two d.As (since neither d.C or d.B link off of d.As), as soon as the opponent jumps, press C.
-Beni's qcf+K --> d~u+K--> qcf~uf+K, K: As long as there's no delay it'll stay buffered.  Alternatively you can do qcf+K, f, uf, u+K.
-Billy's qcb A, into rapid A (cancel startup frames) into qcb C-->qcb A, C x4

HD bypass activation and tips

Bypassing the frames of activating Hyperdrive (BC).  Although it seems much quicker than previous incarnations, pressing BC during a heated battle is ill-advised as you're vulnerable to eating a fat combo. Instead, clever techniques have been discovered over the years to eliminate those frames such as--
 ∟Kim or Ryo's overhead, press BC on point of contact, continue combo while opponent is in hitstun.
 ∟Activating as a special like Kensou who can do, d.B, d.B, qcf+BC (doing his qcf C while activating HD).
 ∟Clark canceling a non-cancelable normal such as his second hit of his close C into his Ex hcf K but simply
    doing hcf+BCD (all you'll see is s.C [2hits], hcf BD w/HD automatically)
 ∟Leona's V-Slasher DM (air.qcf~hcb+P) can be performed air.qcf~hcb+ABC which will make her do her
    Ex V Slasher while going into HD mode at the same, of course you want to MaxCancel into her NeoMax
 ∟Anytime you activate the BC off a normal late, a s.C will come out instead of the autodash.  
 ∟Anytime you activate the BC off a normal early, the autodash will be activated.
 ∟Ex specials like Shen's command throw, hcb~f+ABC (Arcadia says to prevent overlap do hcb~ub~up~uf+ABC).  
    You can also do the same motion in the air but you have to complete the motion before you land to
    go straight into HD.  Same applies to Goro and Clark.

Kusogaki of KOF UK Fame (http://kof-uk.blogspot.com/), illustrates the technique nicely on this clip (http://www.youtube.com/embed/6da56NFWoNs).


Damage scaling:

- Every hit past the first one takes a 5% damage scaling cut.
- Damage scaling is normally capped at 20%. However, DMs and EX DMs damage scaling is capped at 40% whereas NeoMaxes are capped at 50%.  (Example given in the mook is if you have a 100 damage attack, no the 18th hit, you’d expect the damage to be 100 x (1- (17*0.05)) = 15, but the actual damage is 20. No actual example of a move in game is given however!) UPDATE: In console, DM's now are capped at 40% while NMs stay at 50%
- When doing a Max Cancel, the Neo Max ignores the regular damage scaling formula, but suffers damage scaling equal to the DM that was used for the Max Cancel. TLDR: Max Cancelling gives you slightly better damage scaling.
- Some multi hit DMs suffer the same damage scaling through all hits (e.g. if the first hit of a 6 hit DM suffers from 75% damage scaling, all 6 hits are scaled to 75%)
- Some moves are free from damage scaling entirely. Supposed to be common for the last hit of “Lock” type moves (once the first hit connects, the rest of the move connects as though the opponent is caught).
- Lowest damage value in the game is 4, hence if moves would suffer from damage scaling that would push them to a value less than 4, it’s bumped up to 4.

 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on August 18, 2010, 12:32:50 AM
Yes! We needed this.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Parapets on August 18, 2010, 03:48:51 AM
It might be a good idea to use this thread to go into detail about all the mechanics specific to XIII, rather than just the more obscure stuff.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 18, 2010, 09:09:19 AM
It might be a good idea to use this thread to go into detail about all the mechanics specific to XIII, rather than just the more obscure stuff.

I figure I'll focus on the ones that need testing with actual access to a XIII machine, while other people who don't have access can copy&paste or describe how Drive Cancelling, Hyper Drive, Ex moves etc., works.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: phoenix on August 18, 2010, 04:59:25 PM
In  the General Discussion Louiscipher asked whether dp's are invincibile or not, Kane317 replied that he thought they were invincible again.

I wanted to suggest a pretty easy way to check. Both Kula's and K''s f+A have enormous active frames, so it's very easy to verify that the move is meaty. Just score a knockdown do a meaty f+A and have the other player try to uppercut it. If they can uppercut that, they can quite surely uppercut any other attempt at a meaty.

Make sure to check with LP dp's, HP dp's and EX dp's of course.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ash on August 18, 2010, 06:35:13 PM
Each dp has different properties, some have more or less invincibility. I remember there's a few characters that have less invincibility that lose/trade against a j.CD at the right distance.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on August 19, 2010, 04:34:23 AM
So I was messing with K' on training mode the other day since I wanted to try this combo someone who I totally forgot who it is mentioned. It involves canceling his dp into fireball (qcf+P), but I guess the problem is that if you just do it the system cancels into a super. So I figure a way to cancel into fireball without getting super.

Just do DP+Press and HOLD "A", then while holding "A" on the first hit press FORWARD. You will get the fireball instead of super.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: itpcruz08 on August 19, 2010, 05:15:05 AM
Just do DP+Press and HOLD "A", then while holding "A" on the first hit press FORWARD. You will get the fireball instead of super.

Oh, great !! :3

Is it also possible to do that in the C version?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on August 19, 2010, 06:56:28 AM
Just do DP+Press and HOLD "A", then while holding "A" on the first hit press FORWARD. You will get the fireball instead of super.

Oh, great !! :3

Is it also possible to do that in the C version?



I haven't tried it but I don't see why it wouldn't.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ash on August 19, 2010, 08:02:15 AM
Just do DP+Press and HOLD "A", then while holding "A" on the first hit press FORWARD. You will get the fireball instead of super.

Did that work where the qcf+A ended up hitting? I believe I saw it miss, but I could be wrong. The japanese post says to use dp+A, qcf+C for the combo. Gotta do some more testing to verify this.

Oh, great !! :3

Is it also possible to do that in the C version?



I haven't tried it but I don't see why it wouldn't.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: HeroBoy on September 04, 2010, 10:32:47 AM
So do we have a name yet for special moves that have "juggle anywhere" properties, like Liz DM, K' EX minute spike, Raiden dropkick, etc? And do we have a list for each character of who gets what?

I got the master guide but, since i'm not a native speaker, couldn't really figure out any symbols for this property and it'll still be a few more days before I get my first chance to play 13. Soon though!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Flowtaro on September 04, 2010, 10:58:03 PM
anywhere juggle


been like that since 2001


alternately some people use "ultimate juggle"
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 11, 2010, 12:23:06 AM
Nice so what would be the easiest way to do Vice's dash then command grab(or Beni)? I've seen some people to it and it is very difficult to me.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on September 11, 2010, 11:35:50 AM
In XII, hcb,f+button moves could be input as qcb,f+button. In my time with the game, it hasn't seemed like that shortcut is still there, but I'd love to be proven wrong. It made a lot of combos easier.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 12, 2010, 10:55:37 AM
In XII, hcb,f+button moves could be input as qcb,f+button. In my time with the game, it hasn't seemed like that shortcut is still there, but I'd love to be proven wrong. It made a lot of combos easier.

The XII only shortcut did not carry over strangely.

Nice so what would be the easiest way to do Vice's dash then command grab(or Beni)? I've seen some people to it and it is very difficult to me.

Shen's, Goro's, Vice's, Liz's and Beni's hcb~f dash command throw are all done fwd x2 hcb~f, nothing special.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 12, 2010, 08:40:38 PM
No Beni's amd Vice command throw are hcb,hcf+P.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 14, 2010, 04:53:30 AM
No Beni's amd Vice command throw are hcb,hcf+P.

You're smoking crack man.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dark Chaotix on September 15, 2010, 11:04:21 AM
Nice so what would be the easiest way to do Vice's dash then command grab(or Beni)? I've seen some people to it and it is very difficult to me.

Shen's, Goro's, Vice's, Liz's and Beni's hcb~f dash command throw are all done fwd x2 hcb~f, nothing special.

Only for a few steps tho, since the charge is lost. This applies to DMs aswell...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cibernetico on September 15, 2010, 06:18:03 PM
Gotta ask something for you anyone who plays it and for people who only have access to videos.

Would it be fair to say that the Hyper Drive combo aspect of this game favors some characters more than others? for example, I see characters like Kyo, K and Shen Woo have some ridiculous combos using this, yet I can't see how someone like Goro, Ryo, Maxima and even Vice putting together stuff like that.

Or is it just based on what kind of characters they play as? Cause I can see how it would be more difficult for a grappler vs. someone like Kyo who just has many great things to his game.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 15, 2010, 06:35:46 PM
Cibernetico I agree with you, not all the characters are favored by Hyper Drive.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Shiranui_ninja on September 15, 2010, 06:46:57 PM
Seems that all characters, grapplers and not grapplers, can MAXCancel a DM into a NeoMAX. And this only can be done when you are in HD mode, so I think to execute certain combos or cancels you need HD mode obligatory.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 15, 2010, 09:10:50 PM
That is true but you are now adding atleast 4 meters, from what I understood from ciberneticos post is that there are some characters who can just use the HD mode wihtout meter or maybe just one and do some serious damage like K', Shen, Andy, plus a few others while characters like Goro, Vice, Maxima are fucked with out meter to cancel while in HD mode.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cibernetico on September 15, 2010, 09:23:42 PM
Well it's not even about that. Cause yeah, characters like Goro and Maxima can use the HD combos to still combo into their NeoMaxes, but I'm talking about the huge combo linking.

I was looking at Mr. KOf's Robert and some other Takuma players and how they used the HD combo to create some long lasting combos before hitting the NeoMax moves. And with the way damage seems to scale down when combos get to long, character's like Maxima and Goro can't rely on their big damage to make up for the fact that they can't cancel and link huge combos like Kyo and Shen can.

but like I said, maybe it's just me who sees this and I should look into more videos of characters like Goro and Maxima when more become available.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: venusandeve on September 15, 2010, 10:40:24 PM
i saw a vid with pretty cool combos here, maxima had the quickest (HD) 100% combo of all. doesn't mean the others don't have good options, but maxima has at least 1 awesome option.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 16, 2010, 06:07:41 PM
Without a doubt, there will always be characters geared towards hyperdriving just coz some characters are just combo oriented and hyperdrive, by nature, is to enhance combos.
In 2k2 you can really feel the disadvantage, (not being able cancel easily like Chang) but in XIII however, due to the Ex moves it doesn't really bother you as much since you can still good damage.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cibernetico on September 16, 2010, 09:34:01 PM
I have two questions about the Hyper Drive moves and canceling.

1. How exactly does it work with charge moves? Is the charge time cut in half so the move can be easily cancelable into another? Or is it still take the same amount of charge time to implement charge moves with the HD system?

2. Do the moves characters do in HD mode have the same priority as EX moves?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 16, 2010, 11:54:54 PM
1. I think charge moves are cut in half just over all in the game. Not too sure since I don't like charge characters.

2. NO
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ash on September 17, 2010, 04:39:14 AM
For charge moves in HD mode, you still have to charge the full amount of time. Usually for characters like Leona/Ash what you would do is d, ub for the special attack, so that you're already starting to charge back for the next move to cancel.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on September 17, 2010, 11:20:18 AM
I wish they had gone the 2002UM route and made charges unnecessary when canceling in HD mode. I think a lot more people would be interested in Leona and Ash.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 17, 2010, 04:19:31 PM
True, well Ash has that super that allows him to do that.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on September 17, 2010, 04:33:20 PM
Oh, right.

Damn, I bet that's the only reason they didn't include that feature for everyone.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: venusandeve on September 17, 2010, 08:07:03 PM
i wonder; what's the advantage a charged move has over a command version of the same move?

i mean, how does ash's  d~u+K compare to, say, Kyo's DP?

edit - got one answer to my own question: using a DP, you press f, which means you're no longer crouching nor blocking.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: C 3 on September 17, 2010, 08:18:26 PM
Sorry to seem a bit random, but might I suggest we make a thread either now or in the near future pertaining to what characters are good in 1st, 2nd or 3rd spot? I think that would be really helpful IMO.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mazinkaiser on September 17, 2010, 08:45:35 PM
Sorry to seem a bit random, but might I suggest we make a thread either now or in the near future pertaining to what characters are good in 1st, 2nd or 3rd spot? I think that would be really helpful IMO.

agree on that point, the battery is a truly important thing to manage.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 28, 2010, 06:24:08 PM
I think this belongs here, the othe day I was messing aroung with Iori and came across another way to do his DP is hcb,forward+P. I found this method useful when I was trying to do running then DP.

Chin: after his overhead he can go into quickie punch and you can't really do anything about it I'm serious I've even tried mashing buttons, DPs and supers and nothing happens I'm still in block stun, yesterday messing Shen I did normal command grab right after the overhead and it worked.

Hopefully this helps some of you guys in the future.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 29, 2010, 06:45:51 PM
Chin: after his overhead he can go into quickie punch and you can't really do anything about it I'm serious I've even tried mashing buttons, DPs and supers and nothing happens I'm still in block stun, yesterday messing Shen I did normal command grab right after the overhead and it worked.

Hopefully this helps some of you guys in the future.

You're not meant to tell anyone :)  Reynald, figured that out on me with Goro two weeks a month ago.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: 4leaf on September 29, 2010, 09:53:33 PM
He did that to your Chin about a month ago.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: JeremyH on October 03, 2010, 06:42:27 AM
quick noobish questions: Are throws still 2 buttons like 12 or back to 1?  Also are the links easier link 12 or back to 2k2 timing?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Phoenixazure on October 03, 2010, 10:20:47 AM
its back to one button throws.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: meiji_99 on October 03, 2010, 08:12:34 PM
@JeremyH
It is using xii timing to do links.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: TYRANNICAL on October 03, 2010, 11:44:00 PM
This isn't just about XIII but KOF in general.  How do you feel about being able to tech (normal)throws no matter what?  I've seen footage of XIII K' getting grabbed out of Iron Trigger and teching the throw.  Think that's "fair" when the player has gained their punish?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on October 03, 2010, 11:54:45 PM
This isn't just about XIII but KOF in general.  How do you feel about being able to tech (normal)throws no matter what?  I've seen footage of XIII K' getting grabbed out of Iron Trigger and teching the throw.  Think that's "fair" when the player has gained their punish?

i think it's fair. if anything, you should be glad someone would attempt to punish you with a throw rather than a 50% combo. plus, if the opponent broke your throw, then it just meant you were being too predictable. throw punish is pretty common in SF though. there are better options out there, so i wouldn't worry about it too much.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on October 09, 2010, 08:16:35 AM
Interesting shortcut, kinda pertains to a one reported earlier:

If you're doing a charge.d~u+button, [DC] charge.b~f+button --and the both buttons are the same type like two punches or kicks, then if you simply do, c.db~uf press and hold button then it'll do the cancel for you.  So far, only Leona and Ash benefit from this shortcut (Moonslasher into Baltic Launcer and Ash's Ventose into his Caprice).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on October 09, 2010, 07:28:15 PM
with the charge time thats in kof i dont think thats such a problem. this aint sf where you really have to hold for agt least 2 secs.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on October 10, 2010, 01:08:16 PM
with the charge time thats in kof i dont think thats such a problem. this aint sf where you really have to hold for agt least 2 secs.

Yeah it's not necessary but I just wanted to point it out.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: krazykone123 on October 10, 2010, 01:44:07 PM
The lack of roll HD kinda sucks, is jump HD and bypass HD still in there?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on October 11, 2010, 09:40:50 AM
The lack of roll HD kinda sucks, is jump HD and bypass HD still in there?

I'm sure They are still there as they were intended to be in the game and are made reference to in the Mook. The roll cancel HD was kinda left field.

---
Interesting discovery on the mechanics of HD bypass (Thanks to Ash for helping me pinpoint what exactly it was was):

-When doing light hit chains into HD, e.g d.B x2, s.B, HD here are the conditions--
1) if you press BC as soon as the s.B hits (early), it'll cause your player to activate HD but auto dash forward so you have to press s.C/D manually.
2) if you press BC a little delayed (late), it'll cause your player to do a s.C

Basically, if you just wanna do d.B, s.A, HD (s.C), --> hit the BC slightly delayed but if you're activating off a far poke like Shen, Iori, Vice etc...you'd want to auto-dash and hence press the BC as early as possible.

---
UPDATE:
Same mechanics apply with strong hits. So s.C, (slight delay) BC yields-->
s.C, BC, s.C (one less input)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on November 06, 2010, 01:32:35 PM
I guess that exp
Interesting discovery on the mechanics of HD bypass (Thanks to Ash for helping me pinpoint what exactly it was was):

-When doing light hit chains into HD, e.g d.B x2, s.B, HD here are the conditions--
1) if you press BC as soon as the s.B hits (early), it'll cause your player to activate HD but auto dash forward so you have to press s.C/D manually.
2) if you press BC a little delayed (late), it'll cause your player to do a s.C

Basically, if you just wanna do d.B, s.A, HD (s.C), --> hit the BC slightly delayed but if you're activating off a far poke like Shen, Iori, Vice etc...you'd want to auto-dash and hence press the BC as early as possible.

---
UPDATE:
Same mechanics apply with strong hits. So s.C, (slight delay) BC yields-->
s.C, BC, s.C (one less input)


I guess this explains this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-FZ1fyX5XE#t=1m25s) where Ash dashes slightly forward after HD bypassing from b+B.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: phoenix on November 06, 2010, 02:03:33 PM
The effect you'r edescribing Kane317 is pretty similar to kof2002 BC bypasses, except that there was no 'auto-dash'. But if you'd do a BC cancel early, you immediately go back to neutral, while if you do it slightly late B will come out. To have C come out instead you'd have to do it slightly late and input C~BC instead.

It's kind of odd that C comes out in XIII. Traditionally in KOF the priority of buttons was alwas  A>B>C>D so pressing a+b gave A, B+C gave B, C+D gave C and other combinations (hard to find good examples of this as many of these button combinations are mapped, but one of the examples is B coming out of a BC cancel).

So if I'm curious what comes out if you press BC in XIII, obviously HD mode activation, but once in HD mode, what comes out if you press BC, B or C? If C would come out that'd be quite a big break from a long standing KOF tradition.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 06, 2010, 02:58:09 PM
The effect you'r edescribing Kane317 is pretty similar to kof2002 BC bypasses, except that there was no 'auto-dash'. But if you'd do a BC cancel early, you immediately go back to neutral, while if you do it slightly late B will come out. To have C come out instead you'd have to do it slightly late and input C~BC instead.

It's kind of odd that C comes out in XIII. Traditionally in KOF the priority of buttons was alwas  A>B>C>D so pressing a+b gave A, B+C gave B, C+D gave C and other combinations (hard to find good examples of this as many of these button combinations are mapped, but one of the examples is B coming out of a BC cancel).

So if I'm curious what comes out if you press BC in XIII, obviously HD mode activation, but once in HD mode, what comes out if you press BC, B or C? If C would come out that'd be quite a big break from a long standing KOF tradition.

Ppl familiar with 2k2(UM) and even 2K will remember similar mechanics but XIII definitely feels more refined.   The auto dashing has been present since XIII but for awhile we couldn't figure out what the difference to trigger the hit versus the dash.  Very useful to know IMO.

EDIT:  Oops, I missed your second question.  I'll go test it out eventually.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Twinsen on November 08, 2010, 07:46:49 AM
I don't know if it has been noted, but when in HD mode, overheads can be comboed when dones by itself.  Example  Vice in HD mode can do f.a overhead and then follow up with any of her command moves.  This can open alot of mind games. If they block say s.c, f.a you can go into HD mode and use f.a overhead and it will catch your opponent  if they are blocking low and then you can continue to your HD combo.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 08, 2010, 09:35:32 AM
I don't know if it has been noted, but when in HD mode, overheads can be comboed when dones by itself.  Example  Vice in HD mode can do f.a overhead and then follow up with any of her command moves.  This can open alot of mind games. If they block say s.c, f.a you can go into HD mode and use f.a overhead and it will catch your opponent  if they are blocking low and then you can continue to your HD combo.

Indeed; HD makes all normals cancelable, including ones that don't normally (like Shen's far D etc...).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Twinsen on November 09, 2010, 01:01:57 AM
I don't know if it has been noted, but when in HD mode, overheads can be comboed when dones by itself.  Example  Vice in HD mode can do f.a overhead and then follow up with any of her command moves.  This can open alot of mind games. If they block say s.c, f.a you can go into HD mode and use f.a overhead and it will catch your opponent  if they are blocking low and then you can continue to your HD combo.

Indeed; HD makes all normals cancelable, including ones that don't normally (like Shen's far D etc...).

Didn't know HD made all normals cancelable, good to know.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 10, 2010, 06:38:28 PM
Moved the Hwa Jai vs Joe discussion to the Hwa Jai section.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 14, 2010, 10:48:34 AM
Interesting discovery on the mechanics of HD bypass (Thanks to Ash for helping me pinpoint what exactly it was was):

-When doing light hit chains into HD, e.g d.B x2, s.B, HD here are the conditions--
1) if you press BC as soon as the s.B hits (early), it'll cause your player to activate HD but auto dash forward so you have to press s.C/D manually.
2) if you press BC a little delayed (late), it'll cause your player to do a s.C

Basically, if you just wanna do d.B, s.A, HD (s.C), --> hit the BC slightly delayed but if you're activating off a far poke like Shen, Iori, Vice etc...you'd want to auto-dash and hence press the BC as early as possible.

---
UPDATE:
Same mechanics apply with strong hits. So s.C, (slight delay) BC yields-->
s.C, BC, s.C (one less input)


I wanted to add something that helped with my timing (as I'm rhythmically challenged heh).  The timing for light hits into a delayed BC (s.C) is really like the timing for chaining light attacks.  e.g.  Use the timing for anyone's d.B, s.B, s.B for:
d.B, s.B, BC and it'll do -->
d.B, s.B, HD+s.C.

The concept is no different for strong attacks, s.C, BC, s.C however since strong attacks are slower to come out you can't really do it the same speed as the light attacks.  One way I think of it, is pretending that two s.C chain one after another so I press it visually.  Another way you can think of it, press the BC as soon as the window for canceling the s.C, has passed.

Once again, if you have no problem doing the 2k2 BC links then you can ignore all my tips since you can always auto-dash, and manually hit the s.C.

---
UPDATE2:
Added the shortcut dp motions = hcb~f to the first page.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cibernetico on November 19, 2010, 06:16:32 PM
ok I'm confused a bit from something I saw in this video --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Shnqd3hcEc

At around 5:05, K destroys Raiden and I noticed that during the EX moves the player uses, it uses up both the power stocks and the Hyper Drive meter. I thought when doing ex moves only the power stocks got used. Or am I missing something here cause later on in the video, some characters use EX moves and the hyper drive gauge does not get used.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: venusandeve on November 19, 2010, 06:21:45 PM
it was an EX move, cancelled by means of a drive cancel. it would have been a drive cancel anyway.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 22, 2010, 11:17:02 AM
So if I'm curious what comes out if you press BC in XIII, obviously HD mode activation, but once in HD mode, what comes out if you press BC, B or C? If C would come out that'd be quite a big break from a long standing KOF tradition.

Ding ding ding, C is the correct answer (when in HD, pressing BC yields C).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on November 22, 2010, 11:53:03 AM
Question for Kane:

In XIII, are character hit boxes mostly the same? What I mean is, in XII, Goro's hcf+C air grab could connect with some standing characters if they were tall enough. And Robert's f+A went over Chin's head, right?

I haven't noticed any differences like this in XIII. It feels as if, if a move connects with character A under certain circumstances, than it will always connect with character B under the same circumstances.

True/false?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 22, 2010, 01:03:51 PM
Question for Kane:

In XIII, are character hit boxes mostly the same? What I mean is, in XII, Goro's hcf+C air grab could connect with some standing characters if they were tall enough. And Robert's f+A went over Chin's head, right?

I haven't noticed any differences like this in XIII. It feels as if, if a move connects with character A under certain circumstances, than it will always connect with character B under the same circumstances.

True/false?

My quick answer is that I think there are still categories (small medium and large) but they are more general than XII.  I'll have to really pay attention next time (course there aren't that many small or large characters to begin with).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SchOfHardKnocks on December 01, 2010, 06:02:14 PM
Shortcuts/Sequential Buffering:
I'll post all the ones I know from previous KOFs as well, they should all work but if they don't please correct me.

-All qcf~hcb motions --> qcf x2~back + button
-Similarly, qcb~hcf --> qcb x2~f
-qcb~hcf --> qcb~db~f
-qcf~hcb --> qcf~df~b
-dp --> hcb~f

-Dash hcb x2 command throws (e.g Clark's DM)--> (somewhat close) hcb~f x2~hcb + button

-Canceling qcf into qcf x2 (e.g Shen's qcf+P, [DC] qcf x2+P) --> qcf + button, qcf+ button
-Canceling qcf into qcf~hcb (e.g Liz's qcf+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+P) --> qcf + button, hcb + button
-Canceling dp into qcf~hcb (e.g Yuri's dp+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+K DM) --> dp + button, hcb + button
-Canceling c.d~u into c.b~f (e.g Leona's c.d~u+P, [DC] c.b~f+K) --> c.db/d~ub + button, [DC] f + button
-Canceling dp into qcf (e.g K's dp+P [1hit], [DC] qcf+P...) --> f~qcf+P (hold P) then release (Thanks The_Answer)

-Tricky motions like Shen's CABC can be hard to buffer.  You can start buffering it while getting up, in the air, during the ending frames of a move or even off a s.C itself.  A useful trick is to hold down (whole time): d.A, d.C, d.A, d.B (this will buffer the first 3 inputs) and press C when you want to activate the DM.  By doing this technique, Shen appears to only do two d.As (since neither d.C or d.B link off of d.As), as soon as the opponent jumps, press C.


Hi, I saw your post on the cancelling of K's dp to qcf p and i tried it many times (including mashing the directions  ;fd ;df ;uf with the punch held!) but to no avail.
Is there a specific requirement or am i missing something?

 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 01, 2010, 06:59:00 PM
Shortcuts/Sequential Buffering:
I'll post all the ones I know from previous KOFs as well, they should all work but if they don't please correct me.

-All qcf~hcb motions --> qcf x2~back + button
-Similarly, qcb~hcf --> qcb x2~f
-qcb~hcf --> qcb~db~f
-qcf~hcb --> qcf~df~b
-dp --> hcb~f

-Dash hcb x2 command throws (e.g Clark's DM)--> (somewhat close) hcb~f x2~hcb + button

-Canceling qcf into qcf x2 (e.g Shen's qcf+P, [DC] qcf x2+P) --> qcf + button, qcf+ button
-Canceling qcf into qcf~hcb (e.g Liz's qcf+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+P) --> qcf + button, hcb + button
-Canceling dp into qcf~hcb (e.g Yuri's dp+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+K DM) --> dp + button, hcb + button
-Canceling c.d~u into c.b~f (e.g Leona's c.d~u+P, [DC] c.b~f+K) --> c.db/d~ub + button, [DC] f + button
-Canceling dp into qcf (e.g K's dp+P [1hit], [DC] qcf+P...) --> f~qcf+P (hold P) then release (Thanks The_Answer)

-Tricky motions like Shen's CABC can be hard to buffer.  You can start buffering it while getting up, in the air, during the ending frames of a move or even off a s.C itself.  A useful trick is to hold down (whole time): d.A, d.C, d.A, d.B (this will buffer the first 3 inputs) and press C when you want to activate the DM.  By doing this technique, Shen appears to only do two d.As (since neither d.C or d.B link off of d.As), as soon as the opponent jumps, press C.


Hi, I saw your post on the cancelling of K's dp to qcf p and i tried it many times (including mashing the directions  ;fd ;df ;uf with the punch held!) but to no avail.
Is there a specific requirement or am i missing something?

First of all welcome to DC!  When you get a quick second say hi and introduce yourself at the Meet and Greet section (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0).

There was a typo, and it's meant to be f~qcf+A (hold P) it'll do the dp+A, and release A after the first hit.   Honestly, I find that link real hard and since I don't use K' I've only tried it in training mode once and have not managed it consistently.  You should stick with the easier one: hcb~f+A --> qcf+C.   hcb~f+A does an dp+A removing the overlap when you do qcf+C.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SchOfHardKnocks on December 02, 2010, 08:50:49 PM
Shortcuts/Sequential Buffering:
I'll post all the ones I know from previous KOFs as well, they should all work but if they don't please correct me.

-All qcf~hcb motions --> qcf x2~back + button
-Similarly, qcb~hcf --> qcb x2~f
-qcb~hcf --> qcb~db~f
-qcf~hcb --> qcf~df~b
-dp --> hcb~f

-Dash hcb x2 command throws (e.g Clark's DM)--> (somewhat close) hcb~f x2~hcb + button

-Canceling qcf into qcf x2 (e.g Shen's qcf+P, [DC] qcf x2+P) --> qcf + button, qcf+ button
-Canceling qcf into qcf~hcb (e.g Liz's qcf+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+P) --> qcf + button, hcb + button
-Canceling dp into qcf~hcb (e.g Yuri's dp+P, [DC] qcf~hcb+K DM) --> dp + button, hcb + button
-Canceling c.d~u into c.b~f (e.g Leona's c.d~u+P, [DC] c.b~f+K) --> c.db/d~ub + button, [DC] f + button
-Canceling dp into qcf (e.g K's dp+P [1hit], [DC] qcf+P...) --> f~qcf+P (hold P) then release (Thanks The_Answer)

-Tricky motions like Shen's CABC can be hard to buffer.  You can start buffering it while getting up, in the air, during the ending frames of a move or even off a s.C itself.  A useful trick is to hold down (whole time): d.A, d.C, d.A, d.B (this will buffer the first 3 inputs) and press C when you want to activate the DM.  By doing this technique, Shen appears to only do two d.As (since neither d.C or d.B link off of d.As), as soon as the opponent jumps, press C.


Hi, I saw your post on the cancelling of K's dp to qcf p and i tried it many times (including mashing the directions  ;fd ;df ;uf with the punch held!) but to no avail.
Is there a specific requirement or am i missing something?

First of all welcome to DC!  When you get a quick second say hi and introduce yourself at the Meet and Greet section (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0).

There was a typo, and it's meant to be f~qcf+A (hold P) it'll do the dp+A, and release A after the first hit.   Honestly, I find that link real hard and since I don't use K' I've only tried it in training mode once and have not managed it consistently.  You should stick with the easier one: hcb~f+A --> qcf+C.   hcb~f+A does an dp+A removing the overlap when you do qcf+C.

Thanks a lot. Will go try it out once i lay my hands on the machine.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: ZombiesAteDiana on December 03, 2010, 03:57:53 AM
wow short cuts actually work awesome.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 03, 2010, 07:10:55 AM
Thanks a lot. Will go try it out once i lay my hands on the machine.

Apparently, Mr Kof says this works for Robert and it's the same type of link (dp P--> qcf P), you do dp+P, foward+P and it works as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SchOfHardKnocks on December 04, 2010, 08:26:04 AM
Thanks a lot. Will go try it out once i lay my hands on the machine.

Apparently, Mr Kof says this works for Robert and it's the same type of link (dp P--> qcf P), you do dp+P, foward+P and it works as well.


Lol. Yet to lay my hands on any machine. But tried enough to know it doesn't work for k in normal mode. The forward + p works only in hyperdrive mode. But for some reason, dp + p cancelling into forward + k(teleport) works even in normal mode. Dont understand the reasoning behind though.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 04, 2010, 04:15:50 PM
ive got a gameplay question about lizzy. when lizzy does her normal counter, the opponent always is able to block. now, if the opponent is able to block, then it also means that the opponent is able to counterattack. yet i dont think ive ever see anybody counter lizzy's normal counter. anybody wanna try doing a dp, ex/dm or nm or even a command grab as a counter against her counbter. i think this should be possible, unless she uses her ex counter. this would mean her normal counter isnt worth jack shit and is actually a big mistake to use. that is, if it can be countered.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 14, 2010, 04:51:31 PM
is it possible to combo into nm from either a special attack or a ex/dm without going into hd mode? i know its possible from normal moves without going into hd mode, is it possible like this without going into hd mode?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on December 14, 2010, 05:05:20 PM
Nope, sorry.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on December 14, 2010, 05:40:54 PM
is it possible to combo into nm from either a special attack or a ex/dm without going into hd mode? i know its possible from normal moves without going into hd mode, is it possible like this without going into hd mode?

i think it was a pretty important implementation for HD mode required to active Max Cancels. NeoMax'es already do a lot of damage and they don't scale in the same way that other attacks do (if i'm not mistaken). this also stresses more drive meter management and the general use of HD mode itself. if you really want a Neomax combo, there's the trade-off of having to save your meter instead of using it for regular combos/reversals. it's a fair trade if you ask me, and it makes Neomax combos all that more exciting since the anticipation builds towards it. at the very least, i suppose you could always do the Neomax on its own as a punish. some are better that way anyway (i.e. Vice).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 14, 2010, 06:02:52 PM
welmyou could still combo them using ex moves without cancelling into the nm but rather just juggling with them during combos.

personally i wouldnt have minded it if normal super cancels didnt cost any dc bar and nm cancels didnt have to be in hd mode. ah too bad, cant have it all. who kbnows, it might benefit the balance better this way, who knows.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 14, 2010, 10:35:10 PM
personally i wouldnt have minded it if normal super cancels didnt cost any dc bar and nm cancels didnt have to be in hd mode. ah too bad, cant have it all. who kbnows, it might benefit the balance better this way, who knows.

Yeah, you definitely want Super Canceling to use drive meter otherwise it'll be too good, too much damage too easily.  The game already goes by pretty quick under competent hands, you'll see when it comes out on console.
Title: Moved from the General discussion thread...
Post by: Kane317 on December 15, 2010, 10:20:38 AM
Also I read that you have done some experimenting with Clark. I was wondering who you think has better tools Clark or Ralph. Sorry if this is the wrong section I wasn't sure which character forum to ask in.

Ralf has better pokes, although the frames looks the same they seemingly have different priorities and recovery.  The easiest example would be Clark can do s.D, df.A -->  whereas Ralf cannot because his s.D recovers too slow (or pushes back too far).  Ralf's far C and d.C is better than Clark's in my opinion, it feels like it has faster recovery although I can't be 100% certain. 

Overall I think Ralf has better "tool" between his pokes, his air dive, his Ex qcf+P, qcb+P and his aerial normals although I just love Clark because I'm old school.
Title: Re: Moved from the General discussion thread...
Post by: Jammerlich on December 15, 2010, 11:08:07 AM
Also I read that you have done some experimenting with Clark. I was wondering who you think has better tools Clark or Ralph. Sorry if this is the wrong section I wasn't sure which character forum to ask in.

Ralf has better pokes, although the frames looks the same they seemingly have different priorities and recovery.  The easiest example would be Clark can do s.D, df.A -->  whereas Ralf cannot because his s.D recovers too slow (or pushes back too far).  Ralf's far C and d.C is better than Clark's in my opinion, it feels like it has faster recovery although I can't be 100% certain. 

Overall I think Ralf has better "tool" between his pokes, his air dive, his Ex qcf+P, qcb+P and his aerial normals although I just love Clark because I'm old school.

Thanks I've always liked Clark and Ralf and try to fit one if not both on my team. I wasn't sure who to use since I wasn't really sold on a SAB less Ralf, but after reading about ex qcf p and seeing his qcb p in some match vids I think he is a little bit more solid than Clark. Any og move you miss in particular for Clark?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 15, 2010, 11:32:53 AM
Also I read that you have done some experimenting with Clark. I was wondering who you think has better tools Clark or Ralph. Sorry if this is the wrong section I wasn't sure which character forum to ask in.

Ralf has better pokes, although the frames looks the same they seemingly have different priorities and recovery.  The easiest example would be Clark can do s.D, df.A -->  whereas Ralf cannot because his s.D recovers too slow (or pushes back too far).  Ralf's far C and d.C is better than Clark's in my opinion, it feels like it has faster recovery although I can't be 100% certain. 

Overall I think Ralf has better "tool" between his pokes, his air dive, his Ex qcf+P, qcb+P and his aerial normals although I just love Clark because I'm old school.

Thanks I've always liked Clark and Ralf and try to fit one if not both on my team. I wasn't sure who to use since I wasn't really sold on a SAB less Ralf, but after reading about ex qcf p and seeing his qcb p in some match vids I think he is a little bit more solid than Clark. Any og move you miss in particular for Clark?

I'm glad they removed Ralf's SAB, it makes Clark XIII worth playing:)

The one that everyone misses the most, Frankensteiner (dp+K). Although Napalm Stretch (dp+P) was useful, he didn't need it. I also miss his "Curossu Changa!" intro, that gave him personality.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Jammerlich on December 16, 2010, 10:38:39 AM
I feel like I've been seeing more Duo Lon and Ash play recently. Also I don't know if it was the players involved but the two of them seem to do fairly well against K'. I was just wondering what other people people thought.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 16, 2010, 11:27:55 AM
I feel like I've been seeing more Duo Lon and Ash play recently. Also I don't know if it was the players involved but the two of them seem to do fairly well against K'. I was just wondering what other people people thought.

I think it was more the Duo Lon player this time. I don't think Ash is any better of an anti-K' other than the fact the character itself is pretty underrated.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on December 16, 2010, 01:20:07 PM
I don't think Ash is a better anti-K' either but it really does depend on how well the Ash player performs his pressure. Would be funny though to see an Ash player use Genie on top of a K' trying to do Trigger.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on December 16, 2010, 02:59:17 PM
Didn't wanna muck up the Vid thread with exhaustive gameplay convo, so figured I'd move it here.

Notes on the A-Cho Vids:

A-cho 1:
I really liked What Duo Pulled off HERE. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuqQauqsSTQ#t=13m36s) It's great seeing His EX "command normals" used in such ways. Really feels similiar to some of Lin's tricks in 2k2UM.

A-Cho 2:
I rather like how Goro handeled K' in this first round. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOm5Qa6wHk#t=3m25s) Why is it so rare to see Goro's Invincible throw used well? Would his weak special move Roll get him through some of the stuff he waited out here? And I remember how the Devs made a big point (back during the blogs) about giving Goro back that ;a poke, so it was good to see it used do well here.

And Aenthin, the whole "Wait...what? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOm5Qa6wHk&t=9m46s)" moment was great, too. K' just go punished for cutting to the low slide too early, and Ash's backwards hop leaped over the slide.

A-Cho 3:
Elisabeth's combo here at 3:05 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z09_fM1kgyE#t=3m05s) was nicely timed to tag on yet 2 more uppercuts after HD wore off. Semi-shame the DM wasn't landed afterwards.

And geeze, this was a shame for Ash. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z09_fM1kgyE#t=3m05s) Betty drains 50% health with 2 drive cancels and 1 bar of Super meter, eh? All started off a counter hit jumping CD. The weak punch at the end just made the moment.
----------

Overall, there were some interesting things in these vids. My personal burning question though, is... why can't anyone play Maxima? Or, more specifically, are his guardpoints /autoguard on anything but EX dp + ;c THAT hard for the majority of players to use? I would think you'd see SOMEONE amidst all these vids that could use them to read and punish things that no other character can, but it seems rather rare.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 16, 2010, 03:51:34 PM
and i also have a qustion, on those ustream vids theres supposed to be a great clark player. ive watched those vids and ll i found was a good ralph player. anybody wanna link the vid with clark?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: krazykone123 on December 23, 2010, 04:52:37 PM
Can you guys name off some Instant Overheads?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 23, 2010, 05:52:14 PM
leona  ;up ;d
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 24, 2010, 01:58:32 AM
Can you guys name off some Instant Overheads?
leona  ;up ;d

Hmm that's a good point, I think Leona's might be the only one in this KOF.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on January 03, 2011, 05:01:00 PM
I don't know if people know by now. I messed with the Team Random feature for the single player earlier this morning and I was surprised that I got a new team for each match. I don't know how that will end up for versus matches though.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 03, 2011, 10:46:47 PM
I don't know if people know by now. I messed with the Team Random feature for the single player earlier this morning and I was surprised that I got a new team for each match. I don't know how that will end up for versus matches though.

It's been like that for a couple of years now, it'll will random for you in versus as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Delta on January 04, 2011, 12:13:30 AM
Well, it wasn't like that in KOF 2003, and can't remember if XI random changed your team for each match.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on January 04, 2011, 01:24:32 AM
Yeah. Random Roulette didn't randomize for every match starting 2003, mostly due to the shift system. Also, Team Random is actually a new feature as previous games only featured single character random roulettes.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on January 04, 2011, 06:21:20 PM
this might sound stupid but is there "Option Select" in KOF? Not that I remember...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on January 04, 2011, 07:00:10 PM
i dont think so, theres too may ways to advance for an os to work. throw, jump, hyperhop, roll, dp or other invincible moves (dm's).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Delta on January 04, 2011, 07:24:46 PM
Also, Team Random is actually a new feature as previous games only featured single character random roulettes.

In KOF 2002 (original) , when you hold start to random choose, just press up or down to choose Team Random, which changes with each match.

At this moment i can't check if this is available pre-2002
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: metaphysics on January 06, 2011, 12:57:06 AM
this might sound stupid but is there "Option Select" in KOF? Not that I remember...
ryo parry?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 06, 2011, 01:45:21 AM
Also, Team Random is actually a new feature as previous games only featured single character random roulettes.

In KOF 2002 (original) , when you hold start to random choose, just press up or down to choose Team Random, which changes with each match.

At this moment i can't check if this is available pre-2002

In 2002um and KOF98um you had team random too
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on January 06, 2011, 02:00:58 AM
this might sound stupid but is there "Option Select" in KOF? Not that I remember...
ryo parry?

i guess i wouldn't consider that as an option select, since it only deals with one type of threat (non-DM striking). coupled with the fact that you have to choose between high and low and it also loses to throws. otherwise, by that example, any counter-type move would be considered an option select.

i guess for some of the older games f+C/f+D might be considered a pseudo-option select against tick throws/jump-in mixups. after the tick you'd break the throw/throw them/hit or force block of a s.C/s.D if they stagger pressure or feint.

KOF doesn't really use option selects as far as i can remember compared to other fighting games since you have evasive actions and pretty good options on block (GCCD/GCR) anyway.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on January 06, 2011, 01:36:22 PM
Also, Team Random is actually a new feature as previous games only featured single character random roulettes.

In KOF 2002 (original) , when you hold start to random choose, just press up or down to choose Team Random, which changes with each match.

At this moment i can't check if this is available pre-2002

In 2002um and KOF98um you had team random too

Oh that's right. I forgot about that. Rofl
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on January 06, 2011, 05:48:58 PM
Yeah, I thought so. Am I the only one who thinks that OS's are cheap and noobish? However when pro's master OS makes it look like they got psychic power lol...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on January 06, 2011, 06:08:30 PM
Well kof does have auto block so once you start blocking you can input stuff, like a command throw, so if they mis-time their combos or whatever then they will instantly get grabbed.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: metaphysics on January 06, 2011, 10:45:49 PM
Yeah, I thought so. Am I the only one who thinks that OS's are cheap and noobish? However when pro's master OS makes it look like they got psychic power lol...
yeah I really disliked a "certain"game . Because it was OS heavy, some. Can completely shutdown wake up up games too, and that's why sometimes its hell turtly.

I'm glad its not.so apparent on kof as it probably does have some in it
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cibernetico on January 12, 2011, 10:04:58 AM
Is the life you get back dependent on how offensive you were in the previous round? reason I ask is because I noticed in the recent 50+ minute video that a Shen user was getting nothing significant back in the life bar and then in the start of another round, they got a hell of a lot more life back.

this is the first time I noticed this in 13 because in previous games, it was always the same amount of life given no matter how you played.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on January 12, 2011, 10:43:45 AM
Is the life you get back dependent on how offensive you were in the previous round? reason I ask is because I noticed in the recent 50+ minute video that a Shen user was getting nothing significant back in the life bar and then in the start of another round, they got a hell of a lot more life back.

this is the first time I noticed this in 13 because in previous games, it was always the same amount of life given no matter how you played.

In KoF XII, your life return was determined by how much time was left on the clock. So if you finished matches faster, you got more health back. Winning at / near a time out restored barely anything.

I haven't payed much attention to if it works the same way in XIII, normally paying too much attention to the actual fights... but I'd assume it's probably similiar.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: 4leaf on January 12, 2011, 11:25:29 AM
Yes it's time dependent.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: Diavle on January 26, 2011, 03:25:16 PM
Damn mang, it feels like it's been weeks
Haha, right after i typed this i get Kusangi Style's updates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufCOd9xu-NE

It still surprises how little people use Robert's Neomax, having zero frame startup and all. I know I will be abusing it from anything as an anti-air to punishing moves that are quick to recover on block.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: Shiranui_ninja on January 26, 2011, 06:59:08 PM
For me is surprising no one use NeoMAX at all. Sometimes you see some in newbie videos or at the end of some combo, but that's all. In SFIV ultras are more used than neomax in KOF XIII, I think...

I guess people prefer to keep power stocks to enter a HD combo which can take more damage than a NeoMax... But neomaxes are a nice tool to do good amount of damage too, instead of trying enter a combo by jump > low light punch/kick again and again and again.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: JTSNOW6 on January 26, 2011, 07:16:59 PM
For me is surprising no one use NeoMAX at all. Sometimes you see some in newbie videos or at the end of some combo, but that's all. In SFIV ultras are more used than neomax in KOF XIII, I think...

I guess people prefer to keep power stocks to enter a HD combo which can take more damage than a NeoMax... But neomaxes are a nice tool to do good amount of damage too, instead of trying enter a combo by jump > low light punch/kick again and again and again.

Something you should keep in mind is that in SFIV there is an entirely different meter devoted ONLY to Ultra-ing.  If you DON'T Ultra then you really are just wasting your time.  In KoFXIII, a NeoMax is taken from the same meter as everything else (INCLUDING the HD bar).  It shouldn't be too too much a surprise that NeoMaxes are rare as hell!!

I think SNK did a good job because when a NeoMax does indeed get busted out it is REEEEALLY special-feeling.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: solidshark on January 26, 2011, 07:19:22 PM
I think SNK did a good job because when a NeoMax does indeed get busted out it is REEEEALLY special-feeling.

Very much agreed.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: Shiranui_ninja on January 26, 2011, 07:23:54 PM
Something you should keep in mind is that in SFIV there is an entirely different meter devoted ONLY to Ultra-ing.  If you DON'T Ultra then you really are just wasting your time.  In KoFXIII, a NeoMax is taken from the same meter as everything else (INCLUDING the HD bar).  It shouldn't be too too much a surprise that NeoMaxes are rare as hell!!

I think SNK did a good job because when a NeoMax does indeed get busted out it is REEEEALLY special-feeling.

Yes, I keep in mind that... Many times you have to choose between perform neomax or keep stock bars. But rarely people choose neomax, is what surprises me. Win or lose with 3 bars in your stock without using them is a waste too, doesn't it?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: krazykone123 on January 26, 2011, 07:57:56 PM
Win or lose with 3 bars in your stock without using them is a waste too, doesn't it?

It eats your whole HD gauge too, saving 3 stocks for EX attacks is a lot more cost effective than outright using them for a NEOMAX, sure some characters could get by using them (i.e. Shen Woo, Kyo, Robert) but most of the cast get by just fine without using them entirely (mostly for the lack of proper set-ups, and having better options with EX attacks/DM's).

One example is Andy, using a NEOMAX would be a waste of meter compared to all the options he has with EX attacks (hcf+K~BD, db~f+ACx2, dp+P).  Another one would be Vice, she's heavily limited as far as it goes for raw damage and comboing into her standard BnB's, because of that weakness she has to use EX attacks to try and level the playing field, they yield more options/damage etc. This would also apply to Mai since she's lacking in options as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: MUSOLINI on January 26, 2011, 08:04:33 PM
Win or lose with 3 bars in your stock without using them is a waste too, doesn't it?

It eats your whole HD gauge too, saving 3 stocks for EX attacks is a lot more cost effective than outright using them for a NEOMAX, sure some characters could get by using them (i.e. Shen Woo, Kyo, Robert) but most of the cast get by just fine without using them entirely (mostly for the lack of proper set-ups, and having better options with EX attacks/DM's).

One example is Andy, using a NEOMAX would be a waste of meter compared to all the options he has with EX attacks (hcf+K~BD, db~f+ACx2, dp+P).  Another one would be Vice, she's heavily limited as far as it goes for raw damage and comboing into her standard BnB's, because of that weakness she has to use EX attacks to try and level the playing field, they yield more options/damage etc. This would also apply to Mai since she's lacking in options as well.

indeed, something im loving about this kof. man i cant wait to play this shit. im soo hungry for a good fighter that i still play ssf4 sometimes, and i dont even like the game that much. i need my fix man.

2 things im sgtill wondering on are if it would have been better to have nm's be without the use of any HD bar, and normal supercancels not costing any HD bar. but i guess its better this way, being able to do a full hd combo, continuing with the combo with ex moves, and then still finishing it with a nm would be overkill. but normal supercancels costing bar is something i always dispised in kof. at least now it costs hd bar instead of super bar.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: venusandeve on January 26, 2011, 08:07:03 PM
characters with command grab NMs will use them a bit more frequently. i saw someone doing ash's NM on wakeup (it happened in AI) and it was awesome and wtf at the same time. if you ask me, between going broke on one NM that lands or wasting 3 stock on EX moves, i think i'd go with the NM. of course, every character is different in this aspect.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: MUSOLINI on January 26, 2011, 08:13:23 PM
also characters can benefit from it like this way. your ash example is a very good one kerel. he doesnt have a grab special, but he can nm. kyo doesnt have a full screen punish, but he can nm. takuma doesnt have an all overcoming aa, but hes got that nm (he could probably do his ranbu as well though).

other characters are too beastly that they can do whatever they feel like k. same goes for oogoshos ralph, a character that has changed from the boring sf style characters into a true bad ass in 13. hes got soo many ways to combo into his ex/dm and nm without going into hd that its fucking crazy.

i wonder if crapcom Capcom (Unnecessary -Kane317) has the same ability to change a character for the better and even make a bitch ass turtle character like guile fun. im guessing they dont. guile fun. im guessing they dont.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: Diavle on January 26, 2011, 08:42:09 PM
i wonder if crapcom has the same ability to change a character for the better and even make a bitch ass turtle character like guile fun. im guessing they dont.

Capcom is horrendous at change, its like they don't even have the balls to add one new move or make one significant change. In SF4, the majority of the cast basically has no moves. Heck, Ryu even lost a move from 3rd Strike.

SNK on the other hand is excellent in that regard, look at characters like Ralf, Kyo, Iori, Kensou, Andy, Maxima, Chin, the list goes on and on. And this is not taking into account all the changes made over the years before XII/XIII.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: MUSOLINI on January 26, 2011, 09:21:27 PM
indeed, even though at times horrible (99 terry) but most of the time at least the character has some sort of evolution. fucking guile is still the same damn guile from 1992, and what worked then still works now (another example of how crapcom Capcom sucks at even changing some of the in game systems to have some sort of evolution in in the whole game, not just 1 character). i swear sf4 never would have anyu popularity if it had been 2d. for some stupid reason i dont quite get yet, 3d with horrible art direction (think american comic style or justice league) equals succes. if it had been the same game but in 2d no way it would have sold this much. then again most people hadnt played a fighter in soo liong and jst bought it for the sake of having a fighter, nostalgia or whatever. just look at the difference between the numbers of vanilla and choco.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: sibarraz on January 26, 2011, 09:53:56 PM
Great another thread going into a tirade against SF IV or Capcom

Seriously,, at times I think that some people are more capcom haters than SNK or KOF fans
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 26, 2011, 10:42:17 PM
2 things im sgtill wondering on are if it would have been better to have nm's be without the use of any HD bar, and normal supercancels not costing any HD bar. but i guess its better this way, being able to do a full hd combo, continuing with the combo with ex moves, and then still finishing it with a nm would be overkill. but normal supercancels costing bar is something i always dispised in kof. at least now it costs hd bar instead of super bar.

IMHO, this is single most-welcomed change from 2k2UM to XIII.  In 2k2um, I remember finding myself asking, "should I really burn a stock just to cancel?"  Now it just makes sense unless you're saving for HD or NM.

Great another thread going into a tirade against SF IV or Capcom
Seriously,, at times I think that some people are more capcom haters than SNK or KOF fans

Capcom Fighters aren't my cup of tea either but let's be respectful guys; I have edited some posts above in accordance to this.

---
As for meter usage/HD discussion, it really does vary on style of play and character more importantly.  Some characters like Ash and Duo Lon (but moreso Ash due to the damage output, 400 vs 480) really benefit using their NM outside of combos.  Often times they are game-changers and due to both characters being relatively offensive, it's a great mixup.  In DL's case it's really the only way to do some decent damage, Ash can fallback on his Sans Cullotte, HD and general zoning games.

Most characters however, it maybe a little bit more flash than useful.  Don't get me wrong, 450 (on average) of damage at one single moment definitely helps a lot, but often times you can achieve the same if not more, with two stocks (maybe 1 drive) with a full combo.  Shen, Iori, Kyo, Vice are great examples of high damaging combos without the use of NM.  Other times, certain characters just work so well with HD (Leona, Shen, Takuma to name a few) that it's almost a waste not to use the drive meter for HD.  Furthermore, most situation that you would be able to use a NM by itself, would mean you could have done a full combo anyways (Ash and DuoLon's are the few exceptions since both of their NM are command throws).

Even still, certain characters like Ash and Iori (I know keep using the same examples but I play against these characters a lot) in particular have both real good NM and have great HD combos so they are extra dangerous to play against in formidable hands--which is why playing Duc is a pain in the ass coz he's equally deadly with both of them and they happen to be on his permanent team.

As for individual playstyles, and I think I've mentioned before, RJ likes to save Shen's stocks (and more times than not he has 5 stocks on the 5th round with him) and he won't hesitate to do 100% combos on you while at the same time, he's equally competent with Shen even if he doesn't have stocks.  In contrast, Duc and my Shen will typically dish as much damage as we can, when we can.

IMHO, XIII really is a refinement of the sum of all iterations of KOFs.  Never have I needed to strategize  so much with bar usage, but it adds a refreshing variety of gameplay.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 27, 2011, 05:31:33 AM
My main grip with XIII is the HD bar, I honestly got the feeling that should have never existed, if you want to cancel a move, 1 stock like the one for ex moves, if you want to enter in max mode, 2 stocks, then you can't overuse some moves, I would also made the max mode time a little shorter

At times you can do stupid combos only with little meter, should be more limited like 2002um, now that's a game where you need strategy to know where to spend your stocks

Honestly all the times that KOF a second meter I found it a failure (XIII, or 2000) the only exception would be maybe XI, in that game the meter system was better designed, but still has lots of errors IMO
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread
Post by: Xxenace on January 27, 2011, 09:12:58 AM
Great another thread going into a tirade against SF IV or Capcom

Seriously,, at times I think that some people are more capcom haters than SNK or KOF fans
im sure a lot of people are just tired of capcom's antics over the last few years they have kinda disappointed me (and im not just talking about street fighter) 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on January 27, 2011, 11:12:29 AM
its a good thing shibaraz isnt working at snkp, you idea for cancelling seriously sucks.

also if i dont like how capcom or snk handles their franchises, whats that to other people? its a fact that snk buried the SS series after 3. same way that its a fact that capcom isnt able to male a good sf game the game and characters actually evolving. you mean to tell me you seriously cant see how similarly most of the characters are the played? their the same damn way they where back in 91 to 93, where in fucking 2011. 20 fucking years and still basically the same boring formula.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: venusandeve on January 27, 2011, 12:02:48 PM
the only problem i see with drive cancels is that it's been very randomly determined. K' has an absurd combo which costs no DC and alot of characters have insanely limited options in comparison. as far as the rest is concerned, it works as a pace setter, defining characters as they are. slow or non=rush characters won't pull outrageous combos all the time, and the faster ones will have other draw-backs. or so it should be.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 27, 2011, 01:02:50 PM
its a good thing shibaraz isnt working at snkp, you idea for cancelling seriously sucks.

also if i dont like how capcom or snk handles their franchises, whats that to other people? its a fact that snk buried the SS series after 3. same way that its a fact that capcom isnt able to male a good sf game the game and characters actually evolving. you mean to tell me you seriously cant see how similarly most of the characters are the played? their the same damn way they where back in 91 to 93, where in fucking 2011. 20 fucking years and still basically the same boring formula.

Yeah, because making the game look like 2002um which is like 10 times better designed than XIII really sucks

That's my problem with XIII, lots of cancels combos are like ''repeat 2 moves like 3 to 5 times''
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 27, 2011, 01:46:13 PM
Yeah, because making the game look like 2002um which is like 10 times better designed than XIII really sucks

To each and his own; I think XIII is definitely a refinement of '02UM.  Especially the addition Ex moves solves the problem of only a handful of characters benefiting from the BC mode.

That's my problem with XIII, lots of cancels combos are like ''repeat 2 moves like 3 to 5 times''

Well I know how you feel, I had this discussion with Duc and I try my best to avoid cancelling in such a manner (repetition of 2 moves) but the reality is that some characters just have no choice e.g. King's HD combo.  Although, some characters have more room for creativity (Robert), there's only X amount of specials that can cancel in such a manner so there's a finite number of combinations that may or may not even link.

In general, it's not XIII's canceling system that you should be disliking, it's the concept of canceling to begin with.  Throughout the years of fighting games, those with canceling systems like custom combos etc...usually have some sort of repetition, I guess you can extend it and say most long combos designed that way.  Personally, although more limited, I prefer the XIII canceling system than XII's seemingly "frameless" whatever-go-combos; the mechanics of it seem more grounded in XIII.


Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on January 27, 2011, 03:22:59 PM
indeed, even though at times horrible (99 terry) but most of the time at least the character has some sort of evolution. fucking guile is still the same damn guile from 1992, and what worked then still works now (another example of how crapcom Capcom sucks at even changing some of the in game systems to have some sort of evolution in in the whole game, not just 1 character). i swear sf4 never would have anyu popularity if it had been 2d. for some stupid reason i dont quite get yet, 3d with horrible art direction (think american comic style or justice league) equals succes. if it had been the same game but in 2d no way it would have sold this much. then again most people hadnt played a fighter in soo liong and jst bought it for the sake of having a fighter, nostalgia or whatever. just look at the difference between the numbers of vanilla and choco.

Meh, SF4 ain't that bad, at least its fun to watch it in tourneys and major tourneys get held for it all the time in NA (there are other games sure but this is always the main event). If nothing else it sort of brought the fighting game genre back in to light. Sure its butt ugly and will be forgotten the moment SF5 comes out, unlike 3rd Strike which will last years, but Capcom definitely read the market right and made a hefty profit.

Part of why I enjoy watching it may have to do with how many SNK systems it has, like breaking from MOTW (Terry could do DP>FADC>Ultra over a decade ago), invincible back dash from MOTW, combo links that look suspiciously like links and feints from MOTW, Sam Sho's rage meter, Front Ground Step from SVC Chaos etc. So yeah, Dimps being made up of ex-SNK staff denitely shows.

Yeah, because making the game look like 2002um which is like 10 times better designed than XIII really sucks

That's my problem with XIII, lots of cancels combos are like ''repeat 2 moves like 3 to 5 times''

Will have to call bullshit on this, overall XIII has the freshest and most varied combo system of any fighter (yes, ever). Even normal combos look hella cool and unique (like Kim's dash kick combos, Maxima's wall rape, the introduction of Kyo's air Orochinagi, Ralf). Add in DC and HD and the combo possibilites border on the crazy.

Sure flash is nice in HD combos and we have seen lots of combos with little repetition but if I had to learn HD combos for my arsenal in real matches then I would definitelty be going for one's with repetition. Easy to remember and less chances of screwing up.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on January 27, 2011, 05:48:14 PM
That's my problem with XIII, lots of cancels combos are like ''repeat 2 moves like 3 to 5 times''

I dunno. I think it's because more people opt for repeating 2 moves because either they're using characters like Elisabeth who really has a limited moveset, or the damage and chaining abilities of the two moves are really good, so much that why would people use other moves if they can work well with two moves just fine. Plus, it's also easier.

However, remember that SNKP also released technical references for each and every character and I realized there are still a lot of moves that I have yet to see people use Drive Canceling for. For example, Mai's Musasabi no Mai > EX Musasabi no Mai. Granted, it's not always practical but it shows that there are still a lot of options you can choose from.

Besides, If you hate using two moves over and over again, why not bring up your own combos?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 27, 2011, 07:12:35 PM
For example, Mai's Musasabi no Mai > EX Musasabi no Mai. Granted, it's not always practical but it shows that there are still a lot of options you can choose from.

Lol. Funny that you mention that, we decided to record some casuals and I did that very link on Duc haha! I might just upload that match for kicks.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 27, 2011, 07:45:15 PM
lol, gg and bb has combos way more fresh and with way more variety, KOF XIII combos almost look like infinites


Also is stupid how some characters could be in the corner, and with only one combo put your opponent in the other corner (and we know how happy is K' in the corner) elizabeth comboing 2 dm's like nothing is incredible stupid, we add the horrible damage scaling that the game has and we got a game that still left lot to desire, I still think that with a revision the game would became the best KOF ever, but for now the game has lots of stupid errors
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on January 27, 2011, 08:09:20 PM
lol, gg and bb has combos way more fresh and with way more variety, KOF XIII combos almost look like infinites


Also is stupid how some characters could be in the corner, and with only one combo put your opponent in the other corner (and we know how happy is K' in the corner) elizabeth comboing 2 dm's like nothing is incredible stupid, we add the horrible damage scaling that the game has and we got a game that still left lot to desire, I still think that with a revision the game would became the best KOF ever, but for now the game has lots of stupid errors

I think damage scaling should be addressed immediately is pretty stupid right now.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 27, 2011, 08:14:06 PM
hell I still had the little hope that XIV would be the 98 of KOF XIII 97,

97 was a game with lots of good ideas but with big errors too, then came 98 who fixed lots of things and became one of the most popular fighters ever
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on January 27, 2011, 09:43:17 PM
lol, gg and bb has combos way more fresh and with way more variety, KOF XIII combos almost look like infinites

If you like gg/bb then you roll in a whole different direction from me. I honestly find their style of comboing, dial a combo or whatever its called, way too long and boring, same with other games like them like melty blood.

For me XIII is the middle ground between SF4 and BB. SF4 damage scaling basically makes long combos pointless so most of the combos used are on the short side, whereas BBs are way too long, just endless pounding. XIII for me is the sweet spot, both short and long combos count and even the 100% combos don't last very long, aside from maybe Ash and his SDM+HD combos. And you don't have to rely on long HD combos at all, as seen in high level play they become pretty scarce. Ample damage can be done with normal/DC combos.

And I was refering to lenght and style, not balance. But even then, GG and BB didn't seem all that spectacularly balanced from the matches I've seen/
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 27, 2011, 10:16:03 PM
Sorry, any game with 100% combos are incredible stupid, and when they are short they are even more stupid, if you need a game to make a 100%, at least make it hard to do, not just connect something and repeat as hell. In BB and GG for do a lengthy and damaging combo you need to practice a lot and had a very good timing, with kof is not different,, you still need to practice A LOT to pull the harder combos, but at times here are incredible more easy and stupid, I still prefer the combo system in 2002um, you need bars to pull long combos, and also at times had the skill to connect 2 normals using a quick max (or others characters with normal of 2 hits which are way more easy) XIII not only make it easier, but also they include an AUTODASH, if you gonna do that at least care to do a better damage scaling, I always found the one used in XI a good one (btw, in XIII if you are in BC mode, the moves do more damage?, or the damage is reduced like 2002UM?)

 I'm by no means more fan of GG and BB than KOF, lol, I would rather play 95 than BB now, but that doesn't means that I still found the system of comboing in XIII, because not only you had this thing of constantly repeating the same moves, but also you had the stupid damage scaling and the juggle system
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: venusandeve on January 27, 2011, 10:35:04 PM
^daijoubuka,omai?

besides raiden's drop kick NM combo, which 100% is cheap (stock/hd wise) in 13?

sometimes i have the impression you're talking about a completely different game.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 27, 2011, 10:36:57 PM
lol, gg and bb has combos way more fresh and with way more variety, KOF XIII combos almost look like infinites

Well I respect your opinion, but looks are subjective.

Also is stupid how some characters could be in the corner, and with only one combo put your opponent in the other corner (and we know how happy is K' in the corner) elizabeth comboing 2 dm's like nothing is incredible stupid, we add the horrible damage scaling that the game has and we got a game that still left lot to desire, I still think that with a revision the game would became the best KOF ever, but for now the game has lots of stupid errors

I agree on you with this.  XIII is still not as refined as it could be and it does need a lot of work.  Realistically, as much as I want a balanced roster, somebody is going to have  crazy combos (for the record, most of the regulars at AI don't touch Liz, K' or Raiden for the aforementioned reasons).

Sorry, any game with 100% combos are incredible stupid, and when they are short they are even more stupid, if you need a game to make a 100%, at least make it hard to do, not just connect something and repeat as hell.

There aren't that many 100% combos that are retarded anymore if you ask me, the only ones would pertain to Raiden only (like venusandeve said).  Any other 100% combos requires 5 stocks+HD and hence should be 100% if you're using that much drive+stocks.  

The ones that we should be concerned about are the easy 50%+ combos that require 1 stock etc...(Liz), that's much more of a threat than one 100% combo.

In BB and GG for do a lengthy and damaging combo you need to practice a lot and had a very good timing, with kof is not different, you still need to practice A LOT to pull the harder combos, but at times here are incredible more easy and stupid, I still prefer the combo system in 2002um, you need bars to pull long combos, and also at times had the skill to connect 2 normals using a quick max (or others characters with normal of 2 hits which are way more easy) XIII not only make it easier, but also they include an AUTODASH, if you gonna do that at least care to do a better damage scaling, I always found the one used in XI a good one (btw, in XIII if you are in BC mode, the moves do more damage?, or the damage is reduced like 2002UM?)

Firstly, the HD combos do NOT do less damage like BC mode did for '02UM (at least '02).

I think that AUTODASH really balance out the activation system and once again is a refinement of '02's, I'll explain.  In '02(UM), some characters could do s.C/D, BC, dash s.C/D real easily and for some it was much harder.  Off the top of my head I can think of three reasons why:
1) Some characters have bigger hit boxes, and I remember some characters didn't even have to dash, it was just s.C, BC, s.C real fast
2) Some characters have two-hitter s.Cs like Clark making it easier to hit confirm the BC combos and give you much more time to execute the dash and
3) Some characters have different dash speeds.

If you ignore the first 2, the last one is the most important one and why AUTODASH solves everything; in XIII, the autodash speed is the same for all characters leveling the playing field.  

I can't stress it enough, it really irked me in '02 that faster combo friendly characters really took advantage of the BC system whereas most of the other characters were left hanging.  So I reiterate, the introduction of Ex moves and Autodashing HD activation really changes everything--not perfect but it gets as close as you can get it.
---

For me XIII is the middle ground between SF4 and BB. SF4 damage scaling basically makes long combos pointless so most of the combos used are on the short side, whereas BBs are way too long, just endless pounding. XIII for me is the sweet spot, both short and long combos count and even the 100% combos don't last very long, aside from maybe Ash and his SDM+HD combos. And you don't have to rely on long HD combos at all, as seen in high level play they become pretty scarce. Ample damage can be done with normal/DC combos.

I think this best describe how I feel and in retrospect, that's why I never liked the MvC series.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cibernetico on January 27, 2011, 11:06:26 PM
I've said this before and don't know what your guys opinion of it is, but I think KOF13 would benefit if the HD combo meter would actually drain a bit faster. It seems like when activated, it lasts longer than it should.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 27, 2011, 11:41:37 PM
I've said this before and don't know what your guys opinion of it is, but I think KOF13 would benefit if the HD combo meter would actually drain a bit faster. It seems like when activated, it lasts longer than it should.

I don't know if you taken this point in consideration, on top of the normal time it takes to drain the HD meter (e.g activate it and don't do anything), every Hyper Drive Cancel takes an additional 10% so it's actually faster than most think.  Realistically, for most characters that equals 4-5 cancels.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 27, 2011, 11:48:54 PM
yeah, I think that's is my main problem, the HD meter seems too large

and yeah, sorry, I exagerated with the 100% combos but still I got the feeling that lots of combos do lots of damage for the stocks and amount of moves to pull required (like the liz combo you mentioned) this is why I felt that the HD meter should be attached to the normal stocks, then it will not be as abusable as has been seen (or hell, make it that you can only cancel moves in hd mode, not only spending half HD meter)

At least there are lots of people who still sees this a kof as a ''is so broken but is funny'' like the criticized MVC2 here

At least my ideals KOF are still in 2002um an 98 um, XIII has lots of potential, but still felt it poorly done in lots of aspects, with a revision should be fine, but at the moment I still can't get behind the bandwagon of the game
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 28, 2011, 12:03:34 AM
At least my ideals KOF are still in 2002um an 98 um, XIII has lots of potential, but still felt it poorly done in lots of aspects, with a revision should be fine, but at the moment I still can't get behind the bandwagon of the game

Hopefully with more play time your opinion may change about XIII, but once again, I agree one more revision to XIII would be perfect.  =) 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on January 28, 2011, 03:32:41 AM
Yeah no discussion for that, even though I had heard that the revision of 98um doesn't seem that good

Even though you're right about than 98 and 2002 has the advantage of the larger roster, I got the feeling that still lots of characters had a chance against the top tiers

In XIII is the same (at times I think that almost everybody is so broken that is balanced like some MK games) but still need more development, but I wish to see more KOF's is my favorite saga and I don't want to see it die
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on January 28, 2011, 03:52:55 AM
Please leave any non gameplay talk for the General Discussion thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=65.0).

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on January 28, 2011, 05:00:30 AM
For example, Mai's Musasabi no Mai > EX Musasabi no Mai. Granted, it's not always practical but it shows that there are still a lot of options you can choose from.

Lol. Funny that you mention that, we decided to record some casuals and I did that very link on Duc haha! I might just upload that match for kicks.

Post recorded matches, period. :3
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 28, 2011, 06:20:02 AM
Please leave any non gameplay talk for the General Discussion thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=65.0).


Lol, where's a moderator when you need one?  (I can't believe you found such an old quote Ivan!)  I've been meaning to clean this up but I'm on my phone. :)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on January 29, 2011, 03:43:04 AM
its actually the very first line in this thread lol
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on January 29, 2011, 08:27:01 AM
its actually the very first line in this thread lol

LOL, epic fail.  I moved the discussion to its rightful place now =)

Please leave any non gameplay talk for the General Discussion thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=65.1410).



Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
Post by: ELTRO on February 05, 2011, 09:40:36 PM
I noticed that in KOF 13 vids theres not alot of Guard attack used during block. Is guard attack bad in this game or meter management just make that option null and void?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
Post by: Aenthin on February 06, 2011, 10:45:22 AM
I noticed that in KOF 13 vids theres not alot of Guard attack used during block. Is guard attack bad in this game or meter management just make that option null and void?

Well Guard Cancel is just one of the many ways you can use with a power stock. With the addition of EX moves, some people would opt to save meter for those instead.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
Post by: johrjives on February 06, 2011, 02:03:03 PM
Since I dont have anywhere to play the game I have questions regarding command grabs for those who do.  What are the differences in range/dmg between say...clarks ex command grab and his super? They both take one stock, so when would you use one over the other?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
Post by: Aenthin on February 06, 2011, 02:54:58 PM
Clark's command grab has more range. Damage-wise, Clark's super is slightly better (and Max Cancelable). Probably the same deal with Vice.

As far as when to use it, I'm not really sure. I suppose I'll be spamming more of Clark's EX grab than the super since it's far easier to use, but then I don't really use grapplers a lot, so yeah. Of course, if I want to use his NeoMax, then I'll go for the DM.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on February 08, 2011, 09:54:24 AM
I noticed that in KOF 13 vids theres not alot of Guard attack used during block. Is guard attack bad in this game or meter management just make that option null and void?

Well Guard Cancel is just one of the many ways you can use with a power stock. With the addition of EX moves, some people would opt to save meter for those instead.

^ what he said.  There are more options to use stocks now; most Ex moves have invincibility and/or start long combos (Chin's Ex counter, Iori's Ex qcb P, Leona's Ex Moon Slasher etc.).  Even so, if you know what you're doing, a GCAB can potentially set you up for a full combo so GCCD is almost the least favorable thing to do.


---
Since I moved the topic over from General discussion, I couldn't cut Musolini's post since one half was relevant to the other topic which I left:

Musolini:"for your clarck q'd that's easy, when doing combos or the opponent is closer you use dm, when they are further and think their safe you go for the ex grab (huge range). but if you have 2 bars might as well go for the ex dm, same incredible range with huge damage."

---

Since I dont have anywhere to play the game I have questions regarding command grabs for those who do.  What are the differences in range/dmg between say...clarks ex command grab and his super? They both take one stock, so when would you use one over the other?

That's a good question.  I suppose Ex Command grab has farther range than the DM and of course the DM does more dmg...WTH?  The raw damage shows the Ex hcf+K to be more damaging than the DM (250vs246 not taking into account scaling) although I'm 100% sure that the DM doesn't scale like normal and remember the mook does say some DMs scale differently.

Other numbers show that the DM does more damage in a combo but I'll double check the numbers since I'm curious now.  Here's some data I collected that I'll retest tomorrow:
-s.C [1hit], df.A, Ex Punch, DM (440 dmg)

Assuming those numbers are correct, this is how much damage if the Ex version of the hcf+K is used:
-s.C [1hit], df.A, Ex Punch, Ex hcf+K~qcf+P (~396 dmg)

Also this proves that DM does more damage:
cr. B, cr. A, hcf+BD/hcbx2+P  = 229/267 damage

On that note:
s.D, df.A, Ex Vulcan Punch, hcf K
does more than
s.D, df.A, DM

---
UPDATE: Guess the mook has a typo for his Ex hcf K throw, it lists his damage 80+90(~another 80 for the elbow) but there is no Ex Elbow per se, and just one standard damage of 35 (so the Ex hcf+K should be 80+90~35 dmg for a total of 196 after scaling).

Apparently, the DM does not scale (at least not by itself).  Done on its own: DM = 246 dmg.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: CharREX on March 12, 2011, 05:31:43 AM
Is there a split frame lag where you can't block immediately after running?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ash on March 18, 2011, 02:13:00 AM
Is there a split frame lag where you can't block immediately after running?

Yes
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on March 18, 2011, 03:23:01 AM
Is there a split frame lag where you can't block immediately after running?

Yes

Technically, you can't block when you're running and it takes a second to stop running, but yes.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: l2slythe on March 18, 2011, 05:30:50 AM
Is there a split frame lag where you can't block immediately after running?

Yes

Technically, you can't block when you're running and it takes a second to stop running, but yes.



Not unless you run then crouch block.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: CharREX on April 07, 2011, 05:02:09 AM
Another question, how does the juggle system work in this game? I was trying out the 2nd combo for Goro Daimon and I could NOT land the 2nd  ;df ;c after the EX hcbf grab. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ix2yR1lzZw

And for Clark, I read that you can either land an air throw or   ;uf;d after  ;bk ;fd ;a x2 combo. But for some reason, I can never hit my opponent with the listed options. Is this a timing problem for me?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ash on April 07, 2011, 09:01:26 AM
Another question, how does the juggle system work in this game? I was trying out the 2nd combo for Goro Daimon and I could NOT land the 2nd  ;df ;c after the EX hcbf grab. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ix2yR1lzZw

And for Clark, I read that you can either land an air throw or   ;uf;d after  ;bk ;fd ;a x2 combo. But for some reason, I can never hit my opponent with the listed options. Is this a timing problem for me?

For Goro, the first df+C has to have the opponent as low to the ground as possible, then spam the next 2.

For the Clark combo, I think Kane317 can answer that when he checks this.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on April 07, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
Another question, how does the juggle system work in this game? I was trying out the 2nd combo for Goro Daimon and I could NOT land the 2nd  ;df ;c after the EX hcbf grab. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ix2yR1lzZw

And for Clark, I read that you can either land an air throw or   ;uf;d after  ;bk ;fd ;a x2 combo. But for some reason, I can never hit my opponent with the listed options. Is this a timing problem for me?

For Goro, the first df+C has to have the opponent as low to the ground as possible, then spam the next 2.

For the Clark combo, I think Kane317 can answer that when he checks this.

It's just the timing, practice doing c.b~f+A once into air throw,then you'll get the timing for the c.b+Ax2 into air throw.

Now the hard one is c.b~f+A x2, j.D, air throw.  I've only done it twice and I haven't replicated it and gave up trying for now.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cross on April 18, 2011, 01:23:55 AM
is there any sort of full gameplay primer available anywhere that explains all the systems in xiii anywhere? i have never played a kof before and am pretty unfamiliar with the mechanics.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on April 18, 2011, 03:01:15 AM
dandy j's, ill look for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r75Lz1Drp8g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF5yg2QH_Lw&feature=related

for kof in general, which also implies for 13. it also features the awesome big tournament golf music ftw.

theres also a sepperate one explaining the kof 13 system, i think its over at snkp original site and blogsite. where to find it?

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: PureYeti on April 18, 2011, 03:17:56 AM
There's the wiki at the top which explains the system.

Watch this vid for the whole parts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3KVgI1LvU
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cross on April 18, 2011, 04:01:30 AM
thanks for the links, the tutorial was really good

ill check out the wiki for xiii specific stuff, cant believe i didnt see that
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on April 18, 2011, 05:07:28 AM
yeah dandy did an outstanding job imo. there are certain minor things that can be added but its the best place to start if you havent played kof before.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cross on April 18, 2011, 07:50:24 AM
i watched the tutorial a few times, i jus have to say again its really amazing and pretty fun to watch

i read the wiki but it doesnt seem to cover anything about the cancel system(i think there are 3 or so types? i see lots of cancels in the vids), the hyper mode thingy or any of that. is there anything that explains how these mechanics work? sorry for being a pest but i dont have access to xiii at all until it comes out on consoles, but i want to learn as much as i can before that
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on April 18, 2011, 05:42:12 PM
put easily, just canceling 1 move to a super move is the same as in sf. but you can also just cancel a special into another special, but only if the first move hits. this sort of cancel takes 1 dc bar (you got 2).

you can go into hd mode (custom combo mode) by using both dc stocks at the same time. you can do this during a combo, either during comboing normals or during juggles.

when your in hd mode you arwe able to cancel your supers into a neomax (only way to cancel supers into neomax). but you can use the neomax without canceling a special or super into it, this withoupt going hd mode. either after a normal combo (using just normals) or after a juggle.

cant put it much easier really.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on April 18, 2011, 06:46:19 PM
I'll explain it this way then.

Buffering:
Before learning how to cancel, you should know how to buffer first. Buffering simply means storing motions from the previous move so that you'll have an easier time to input your next move. For example, if you're gonna cancel Ash's Nivose (d_u+K) to Pluviose (qcf,qcf+K), you can charge d,qcf,uf+K > qcf+K. In this case, you added a few extra motions to buffer for Pluviose.

Drive Cancel:
This is basically canceling one Special Move to another Special Move at a cost of half a Drive Gauge. There will be specific frames in some special move where you can Drive Cancel. This is easier to learn if you watched SNKp's Technical References for each character. Not all specials can be Drive Canceled (projectiles, for example) but you can drive cancel into almost everything (just not all of them will connect). Also, you cannot Drive Cancel special attacks on block.

Super Cancel:
This is basically similar to Drive Canceling but you're going to cancel into Super Special Moves instead. Also, unlike Drive Canceling, projectile moves can be Super Canceled. I'm not sure if you can still Super Cancel on block, however.

Hyperdrive Cancel:
Basically like Drive Canceling and Super Canceling while on Hyperdrive Mode. The only difference is, it only uses up a small amount of Drive Gauge as opposed to using 50% (but HD depletes over time). Also, you can HD Cancel even on block.

Max Cancel:
Only works while on Hyperdrive Mode, this is basically like Super Canceling into NeoMAXes. However, it also works while you're in the middle of a Super Special Move. It also depletes the Drive Gauge immediately upon usage.

Really, watching any of the Technical References will help you understand more about these.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Cross on April 18, 2011, 06:53:25 PM
thanks for the explanations, i play pretty much every fighter out now so the concept of canceling and buffering isnt new to me i jus didnt know how they work in kof

ill check out the technical reference thing for sure
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on April 18, 2011, 07:03:24 PM
Haha, well some games have a different buffer system (or even a lack thereof). For example, Garou:MOTW allows you to store inputs for up to 1 second or somewhere around there. Last Blade 2, however, requires you to input the whole motion of the DM again, something which Power Kojiroh players struggle with...

But yeah. XIII's buffer system is easy to do.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on April 20, 2011, 05:14:51 AM
anybody wanna help me make a qyuick list of instant neomaxes?

vice

takuma

who else? most neomaxes dont seem to have that exdm speed (or invincibillety).

i think kims might be instant as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ash on April 20, 2011, 05:40:18 AM
anybody wanna help me make a qyuick list of instant neomaxes?

vice

takuma

who else? most neomaxes dont seem to have that exdm speed (or invincibillety).

i think kims might be instant as well.

Only Vice, Goro, Ash, Elizabeth I believe
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on April 20, 2011, 06:26:49 AM
takuma too i believe imo. aint there more?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ash on April 20, 2011, 06:28:08 AM
takuma too i believe imo. aint there more?

Nope I think that's it. Don't think Takuma's is either. Most Neomaxes are the speed of a few frames like EX supers
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on April 20, 2011, 06:39:20 AM
I thought Maxima's was instant. Could be wrong of course.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on April 20, 2011, 06:57:31 AM
what about kim?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: 4leaf on April 20, 2011, 07:09:37 AM
Maxima's nm isn't instant. I've attempted to auto guard it with shen's far C only to whiff
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on May 16, 2011, 03:58:56 PM
So, I'm asking this just to double-check something I'm already certain I know.

In HD mode, you can cancel any normals. This does NOT extend to CDs, right?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on May 17, 2011, 08:24:57 AM
So, I'm asking this just to double-check something I'm already certain I know.

In HD mode, you can cancel any normals. This does NOT extend to CDs, right?

Even without HD, all CDs are cancelable.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on May 17, 2011, 10:31:16 AM
I thought they were only whiff/empty cancelable.

Can they combo into anything? Could vice to CD -> EX hcf+K for example?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on May 17, 2011, 10:36:22 AM
I thought they were only whiff/empty cancelable.

Can they combo into anything? Could vice to CD -> EX hcf+K for example?

That's more dependent on the recovery frames of the s.CD, I'm leaning towards no only coz there's too much recovery on the s.CD.  In the air however, she can j.CD then Ex hcf K when she lands and it'll combo.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on May 17, 2011, 10:45:27 AM
I thought they were only whiff/empty cancelable.

Can they combo into anything? Could vice to CD -> EX hcf+K for example?

That's more dependent on the recovery frames of the s.CD, I'm leaning towards no only coz there's too much recovery on the s.CD.  In the air however, she can j.CD then Ex hcf K when she lands and it'll combo.

And that's only because the aerial attack animations are cancelled upon landing.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on May 17, 2011, 07:11:11 PM
I thought they were only whiff/empty cancelable.

Can they combo into anything? Could vice to CD -> EX hcf+K for example?

Well, I have a situation where that could work. If you are using Liz, and use her CD as an anti-air to stop an opponent jumping in you can cancel it in to her qcf,qcb+P super and it will connect.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on May 17, 2011, 09:29:54 PM
I thought they were only whiff/empty cancelable.

Can they combo into anything? Could vice to CD -> EX hcf+K for example?

Well, I have a situation where that could work. If you are using Liz, and use her CD as an anti-air to stop an opponent jumping in you can cancel it in to her qcf,qcb+P super and it will connect.

Liz is definitely more exception than the rule; she's one of the few, if not the only, that has a anywhere juggle DM--which is the only reason it connects.  Otherwise it'll have to be a "counter" on the s.CD before a DM will connect.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on May 23, 2011, 10:55:30 AM
So about No. 17's post about a guard crush "combo." How practical do you guys think it is? I've thought about doing it with Shen before cause it seems like it'd be incredibly easy with him, and fairly safe using qcf+D HDC qcf.+A repeatedly. However the thing that stopped me from experimenting with it is, how often will they have no meter? Which brought me to some crazy mind games like omg what if I can do the guard crush combo and just get them to burn all their bar GCCD or something without aiming to actually break their guard.

So for me it seems like using HD to guard crush is a one time thing but there's definitely some potential in using it to make your opponent burn their bar. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on May 23, 2011, 12:05:19 PM
So about No. 17's post about a guard crush "combo." How practical do you guys think it is? I've thought about doing it with Shen before cause it seems like it'd be incredibly easy with him, and fairly safe using qcf+D HDC qcf.+A repeatedly. However the thing that stopped me from experimenting with it is, how often will they have no meter? Which brought me to some crazy mind games like omg what if I can do the guard crush combo and just get them to burn all their bar GCCD or something without aiming to actually break their guard.

So for me it seems like using HD to guard crush is a one time thing but there's definitely some potential in using it to make your opponent burn their bar. What are your thoughts?


I've been emailing No.17 back and forth and I was debating whether or not he should post it here.  Part of me wanted to keep it a secret coz I know that I don't use Liz, and the only one that really does is The Answer and his top tier team (Liz, K', and Kula) already is a pain in the ass, but the other part of me knows that by posting it here it'll open up more possibilities so it can only be good for the community (and hence I told him to post it).  As for just making someone waste a meter, there's plenty of ways to do that without going into HD.

Honestly I don't know, maybe it's only good for a 5th round situation, maybe it's only good if you're in the lead, or it's just a good way to crack someone's defense especially if your next character doesn't need meter to be effective.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on May 23, 2011, 01:02:43 PM
Well the way I saw it with Shen is you hit them with st.C, f+B, HD, st.C, f+B (qcf+D, HDC qcf+A)xN. Then they either have to get guard broken or GCCD/GCAB. After that if they block another move you can pretty much go back into the qcf+D HDC qcf+A loop forcing them to burn another meter. The only thing I'm not sure of is the guard crush potential for Shen so I'll do some testing tomorrow.

There definitely are other ways to get meter but I'm all for the slightly out there options that aren't seen often. I'd say getting any anchor to burn 2-3 meters OR take 50% is a very scary thing for your opponent.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on May 23, 2011, 05:46:05 PM
In regards to this Guard Crush combo, when No 17 was here he advised me to use Ex 236+AC with Liz in a cornered opponent which turned out to be very useful and I immediately incorporated into my strategy.

Also the other day Dune posted something about K' which looked like a combo and I was really curios on finding out what it was about so I went ahead and asked him. It turns out that it's not a combo but more of a strategy. I will be testing this strategy of his this week and reporting my results back to him next week. I know I few people are going to be a little upset about me using K' but is for the greater good of the community lol XP
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on May 23, 2011, 11:22:03 PM
I know I few people are going to be a little upset about me using K' but is for the greater good of the community lol XP

Is that how you sleep at night, I always wondered what you told yourself... =)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on May 24, 2011, 11:31:37 AM
Maybe a strange question, but, in HD mode, each HD cancel drains the bar by 10%, right? Which means that the most HD cancels you could theoretically cram into one combo is 10, right? Are there any combos that actually include that many?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on May 24, 2011, 08:07:29 PM
No, because the HD bar drains down itself.  If you had a character that could [HDC] the first few frames of the special and into another special which could do the same, you could probably pull off 6.  I think Iori might fit under that category but I'm not sure.  K' is another one that can cancel real fast, I think he can do 5 sets.   Come to think of it, I think 5 or max 6 is the most I've seen.  EDIT: I stand corrected, even Shen can do 6 cancels, Iori must be able to do more then as his qcb+K cancels earlier than Shen's qcf+Ds etc...EDIT2: So scanning his thread, it appears that 6 seems to be the magic number with Iori as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on June 16, 2011, 11:35:34 AM
I hope this is the right thread to post in.

So I was finally able to play it. I'm having trouble doing HCB/HCF motions. I never had problems with that in any other games aside from OG 98 and 02. So, I'm a little worried about that. Another weird thing is that I can't do Mature's Rekka's consistently. Which is the exact same problem I have with those OG KOF games. But I never have that problem with Rekka characters in other games.

So far I really like: Ralf, Hwai Jai, King, Maxima, Iori, Kyo, Kim, and Shen Woo.

Because of his EX Grab I consider Kyo to officially be a Hybrid Grappler ;) .

Hwai Jai is a fucking pimp. Just a way better version of Joe. I like that his Hundred Hand Slaps (you know what I mean) move is a command move as opposed to just mashing punch. That's the one thing I've always hated about Joe. Joe just seems harder to combo with, and his toward+B that he had in every KOF is gone for no reason, instead he has this upward attack much more similar to his toward+MK attack he had in CVS2. Hwai is just a combo machine. I dig him.

Maxima I like. Out of all the grapplers and hybrids in this game, he's the one who most reminds me of Alex from 3S. His one problem is that's he's slow, but I assume you play zoning with him then you just need to get in once for massive damage.

Question: Out of all the characters I like, where would you place them on a team? Because I was thinking of Hwai/Kyo on 1st. 2nd would be Shen, King, Kim, and Maxima. 3rd for Ralf and Iori.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on June 16, 2011, 01:14:03 PM
Question: Out of all the characters I like, where would you place them on a team? Because I was thinking of Hwai/Kyo on 1st. 2nd would be Shen, King, Kim, and Maxima. 3rd for Ralf and Iori.

Personally, I like the rule of:
1st> Character who can work without meter first,
2nd> Does best with SOME meter, limited cancels
3rd> "Prime did it, he turned the tide!" Comeback king.

Ralf and Kyo I'd say first. Maybe Kim, since he can build meter with the best of them.
Hwa Jai, Maxima, and King second.
Iori, Shen, and (again) Maxima for 3rd.

Really depends on playstyle though. In older KoFs, I like throwing out Maxima first at times, because his damage is so solid, that he can put on a serious hurt, even if the whole round doesn't go my way.

Conversely, sometime I'd save him for 3rd, since he was the most likely to land some SURE KILL damage in tight situations.

Ralf's ability to link a special into another normal seems pretty solid to me, so that screams "doesn't need drive for extended combos!". So I'd think I could do well without burning much meter.

Hwa's Dragon Kick into Dragon Tail just seems so good, that I'd personally like him 2nd. I want that awesome cancel, heh heh. Also wouldn't hurt to have a meter stored, to toss back a Drink Pink after a CD blowback or something.

Iori and Shen just seem too good at landing HD off everything. Since pretty much ANY normal hit can turn into huge damage with HD, I'd like to keep them as 3rd row secret weapons. Maxima too, but he needs the HD + DM gauge, so it's not as easy.

Just a couple of throughts. Definitely not law in any way, lol. Really looking forward to seeing how these kinda ideas work out once console release hits...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on June 17, 2011, 06:12:10 PM
how do you change the music in kof xiii?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on June 17, 2011, 06:42:17 PM
http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=621.0
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on June 18, 2011, 09:23:58 PM
Why is Terry considered Low Tier by some? Same applies to Mai. Clark and Goro I can completely understand but Terry and Mai look like they have a solid game and do damage consistent with the rest of the mid-tiers.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: solidshark on June 18, 2011, 10:50:50 PM
Why is Terry considered Low Tier by some? Same applies to Mai. Clark and Goro I can completely understand but Terry and Mai look like they have a solid game and do damage consistent with the rest of the mid-tiers.

It might depend on character tools and play-style. Given a few more classic moves, like Power Dunk or Mai's Flying Dragon Blast from '98, they'd be picked up more. I do plan to use them a lot when I get the game, as Mai as great evasion and Terry has great EX potential.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on June 19, 2011, 12:14:04 AM
Why is Terry considered Low Tier by some? Same applies to Mai. Clark and Goro I can completely understand but Terry and Mai look like they have a solid game and do damage consistent with the rest of the mid-tiers.

Haha.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on June 27, 2011, 11:46:12 PM
Laban posted over at SRK an interesting finding about Shen that I have not read anywhere else.  Like Clark, he can do a d.B into command throw link (not canceled) a la '98.  So I did further testing, anyone with a quick command throw like Vice, Goro, Clark, Shen can all do the same: d.B --> command throw
due to sheer distance.  I suppose it would apply to Duo Lon and Ash's NM as well.

EDIT: I just realized that Vice's d.B cancels so she can d.B cancel into command throw, or just link it.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: metaphysics on June 28, 2011, 12:49:25 AM
I hope it's more than one d.B cuz hit confirming from one is damn near impossible
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on June 28, 2011, 02:49:01 AM
I hope it's more than one d.B cuz hit confirming from one is damn near impossible

That's what separates the men from the boys ;)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on June 29, 2011, 11:38:04 AM
I hope it's more than one d.B cuz hit confirming from one is damn near impossible

That's what separates the men from the boys ;)

It's limiting factor is distance.  I suppose Goro could do two d.Bs and go for a hcb~f+AC link.  As for a non-EX, I'm afraid one d.b is all you can do (in theory).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on June 29, 2011, 06:36:46 PM
something i noticed from playing goro, his  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd is for the closest combo situations and not good for punishes at all. it doesnt have that old good throw priority. what ive noticed is that his  ;fd ;dn ;df K throw has replaced his other one. the dp throw goes through attacks as in true kof style, can be combod from the furthest distance, its his best punish throw. i dont think it does as much damage but its his best throw. even the EX version of the  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd throw is crap, only use it in combos or combos when you close to the corner. for all other situations replace this throw with his dp+K throw and yur set. huge difference if you use goro. my gift to you guys interrested in goro. it also seems faster in start up like a true kof throw, unlike the hcb,f one.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: PurpGuy on July 02, 2011, 09:50:13 AM
Why is Terry considered Low Tier by some? Same applies to Mai. Clark and Goro I can completely understand but Terry and Mai look like they have a solid game and do damage consistent with the rest of the mid-tiers.

I haven't played XIII yet and have been wondering that myself.  Terry seems pretty solid mostly.  Asking myself "What would Terry need to become more formidable?" and having a hard time coming up with an answer.  Power Dunk might be nice to have in some combos, but as far as anti-air, Rising Tackle seems to do the trick nicely enough.  Burn Knuckle Drive Cancel into Quack Shot followed by EX Rising Tackle looks really good too.  As for HD combos, Burn Knuckles into the corner seem to be the way to go, kind of like a ghetto Shen.  The only real weakness I can see is that his anti-air is a charge move.  He doesn't have an obvious anti-air normal move like a down+C or something.

Other than that, I think he's O.K.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Remzi on July 02, 2011, 10:26:45 AM
I think he's O.K.
I lol'd.

I don't think Terry can really be improved too much, really. He's mid-tier to me either way, because he has good damage, even off 2B 3C 214A.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on July 02, 2011, 05:41:16 PM
like i said, he needs his firekick the most to be more competetive. just tha move gives him way more options with and without meter.

mai if they could ggive her her old  ;fd ;b and her dp from 95 to 98, shed be great, andf another dm wouldnt hurt either.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: HaxMurderer on July 02, 2011, 09:52:43 PM
Terry's solid because he's somewhat easy to use and he does pretty damn good damage for minimal effort. His other advantages is of course the crackshoot blockstring, it works pretty much like Joe's golden heel, especially against people who like to punish everything. I do with he had MOTW powerdunk though..I mean Andy can break his kuuhadan it's just lame that Terry doesn't have breakable Power Dunk...but even without it he's still my main character to use.

Also, EX power wave, so good.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on July 02, 2011, 10:26:34 PM
^ Hmm... what if they made EX Power Wave a low attack, forcing people to block low and giving you enough time to do an air attack?

Would that help Terry?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on July 06, 2011, 07:38:44 PM
you know i was thinking about something.

all these new bg's for console, does anybody else think they were more specifically made for the online experience more so than anything else?

i think most people notice that kof 13 has lots of animations in the bg's. in ssf4 all the stages with many animations in them lag the worst. so even if snkp had the bewst netcode out there of any other game it would still lag as hell because of all the animations. so maybe 12 netcode wasnt even that bad to begin with bu had more to do with all the amount of data that needed to be sent because of the bg's?

simply put, the stages with lots of animations would lag more than stages without. so this basically means that most of the stages were getting are animation free for the most of it (which is better for the online experience and lower costs because they lack animation).

i hope we can get terry 95 stage in the game as well, just hoping yamazakio makes the cut though.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: HaxMurderer on July 06, 2011, 07:42:43 PM
^ Hmm... what if they made EX Power Wave a low attack, forcing people to block low and giving you enough time to do an air attack?

Would that help Terry?
(sorry for late reply!)
It would help, but it'd be a little overkill since that's basically setting up some potential unblockables, some really easy ones at that.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on July 06, 2011, 08:22:34 PM
juts giving him his firekick would be enough, sets up juggles and hits low, what more would you want? motw powercharge would be a nice edition afterwards. same for powerdunk, but rbs style, not motw style.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on July 06, 2011, 08:43:12 PM
you know i was thinking about something.

all these new bg's for console, does anybody else think they were more specifically made for the online experience more so than anything else?

That's a common idea I've heard all the way back in the DOAU days on Xbox, but it really shouldn't happen with competent new and game coding.

The game shouldn't even waste bandwidth trying to synch background animations up; those should just be left to each others personal game systems processing. Of course it made sense in DoA, since the stages could be destroyed, and transitioned from one place to the other, but in a game like KoF, the only info that MIGHT need to be transmitted is "now as round 2 BG, with X special characters displayed", nothing that should present lag, or need constant updating.

I think we can think the sparse population, normal looking characters, and less background animation more to time restraits, feedback, and ease of creation.

----

Oh, and on the Terry Low hitting fireball... not it it's current multi-hit, enemy-locking state, hehe. While I'd enjoy that to no end, he'd make wicked unblockables everywhere, which might be a bit too good (though It'd still require meter.) This would basically give him free HD combo ops any time he lands a knockdown, as long as he's willing to use the 1 bar of DM to lock you down.

Yup, the more I think about it, the move I'd like to see firekick, lol. Expecially if the first hit left you grounded, allowing something like Firekick -> powerwave -> Firekick HD cancel strings, it'd basically give him that Shen and Iori-like "HD Cancel Master" style midscreen combo, which he seems to lack somewhat ATM.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: IceWater on July 08, 2011, 03:20:51 AM
Do we know exactly how damage scaling works yet? I think I remember reading somewhere that every hit of a move scales the damage back, so that would make stuff like Ryo's f,b,f+p a bad idea to do in the middle of a long combo right? And how much does each hit reduce the damage by? I imagine it's somewhere from 2-4% per hit, but I figured I'd check and see if anyone had the exact amount?

Edit: Nevermind, I just saw the first post in the thread.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on July 08, 2011, 03:37:30 AM
So do we have a list of all the moves that can hit the opponent off a non-counter anti-air attack?

Off my head I have:

Elizabeth: DM qcfhcb+P
K': EX air qcb+K
Raiden: Level 2/3 Drop Kick
Vice: EX hcf+K
Takuma: EX fbf+P

Is there more?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: t3h mAsTarOth...! on July 11, 2011, 09:31:30 AM
Duo Lon's EX air f+AC and Clark's air throw and Yuri's EX dp+K~A+C...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on July 11, 2011, 11:46:41 PM
I just remembered this thread exists. So in the tournament yesterday I was randomly getting fireballs when I was trying to dp a jump in. Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? I thought about it and maybe I got crossed up right as I did the motion. The weird thing is they never actually crossed up.

What happened is I input  ;fd ;dn ;df on the player one side. A fireball comes out even though Andy's fireball motion is ;dn ;db ;bk. The fireball went towards P2 side and my opponent jumping in also stayed on the P2 side.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on July 12, 2011, 05:10:46 AM
Duo Lon's EX air f+AC and Clark's air throw and Yuri's EX dp+K~A+C...

Well any air throw for that matter, so you can add Beni and Mai.  Duo Lon's one doesn't REALLY count since it doesn't REjuggle you after the Ex air f+AC.  The only thing you can follow up after the Ex air f+AC is...another Ex air f+AC.  :/

As for Demoninja, I have no idea.  Can you replicate the situation?  I can't think of why it would be the case.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on July 12, 2011, 05:17:49 AM
Duo Lon's EX air f+AC and Clark's air throw and Yuri's EX dp+K~A+C...

Well any air throw for that matter, so you can add Beni and Mai.  Duo Lon's one doesn't REALLY count since it doesn't REjuggle you after the Ex air f+AC.  The only thing you can follow up after the Ex air f+AC is...another Ex air f+AC.  :/

But it would still hit them in the air regardless and could give you potential setups which Duolon is so good at.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on July 12, 2011, 11:50:58 AM
Yeah Kane, I'll try to manually make it happen but it happened multiple times during the tournament already. Every random fireball against a jump in I tried to dp.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on July 12, 2011, 12:06:35 PM
Yeah Kane, I'll try to manually make it happen but it happened multiple times during the tournament already. Every random fireball against a jump in I tried to dp.

Find the stream time and I'll watch the video again when you post it.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on July 12, 2011, 12:45:09 PM
Okay I'm rewatching now.

Part 1 39:40 I'm sure I tried to dp here. There's some other parts against where I threw a fireball when he was already in the air but rewatching it definitely seems like they were just bad fireballs and I don't really remember those clearly.

Part 3 0:29:55 This is another 100% dp attempt. 0:30:20 I tried to mash random dp for sure as well but I got another fireball. Okay after clearly watching I exaggerated the amount of times I got random fireball instead of dp but it definitely happened more than once.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to provide the link last night. http://www.twitch.tv/iplaywinner/b/289916237
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on July 13, 2011, 12:51:05 AM
Okay I'm rewatching now.

Part 1 39:40 I'm sure I tried to dp here. There's some other parts against where I threw a fireball when he was already in the air but rewatching it definitely seems like they were just bad fireballs and I don't really remember those clearly.

Part 3 0:29:55 This is another 100% dp attempt. 0:30:20 I tried to mash random dp for sure as well but I got another fireball. Okay after clearly watching I exaggerated the amount of times I got random fireball instead of dp but it definitely happened more than once.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to provide the link last night. http://www.twitch.tv/iplaywinner/b/289916237

Hmm how peculiar, I don't see anything special.

The time listed (29m55 part 3) I see that you did a back dash right before the projectile came out but it still doesn't explain anything.  All the other times I don't see anything special.

I know you don't want to hear this, but it might just be poor execution.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on July 13, 2011, 01:09:18 AM
I'd really like to think I can separate a  ;fd ;dn ;df from a  ;dn ;db ;bk after a few years of playing but let's just leave it at that haha. I'll bring it up again if it ever happen again at another event because then I'll know for sure it wasn't just me.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: omegaryuji on July 13, 2011, 03:59:46 AM
The only thing I can think of is maybe you were a bit sloppier than usual  (stream nerves, perhaps?) on hitting the  ;dn, so you were doing  ;fd  ;dn ;db ;dn ;df, though I'm not sure if that would give a  ;dn ;db ;bk.  It seems very unlikely that you'd be going as far as  ;fd ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df no matter how sloppy you were being *laughs* .
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on July 13, 2011, 08:40:40 AM
Yeah exactly my thoughts haha. I was a bit nervous cause I hadn't played in a long time but it was more along the lines of me not doing combos and playing really weird compared to my usual before my extended break from the game.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on July 14, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
I don't know if it's the right place, but why in the character section SDM damages have been write like this : 40*2,30*5,80 SDM doesn't have any internal damage reduction, it's irrelevant for them. And it's easier to write 320.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: IceWater on July 15, 2011, 04:01:22 AM
Since they did all the moves like that I assume they did it just to keep things uniform. Would be cool to have the totals listed next to them to make things easy though.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: omegaryuji on July 16, 2011, 05:23:37 AM
Makes it possible to calculate damage scaling for anything that combos after the SDM, too.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: jeremycarrier on July 16, 2011, 06:28:53 AM
So how does the game differente cl. ;c from regular throws( ;fd +  ;c)? Sorry, I come from a SF3/4 background where throws are done with two buttons, and I'm used to pressing forward while getting in on the offensive. When you want a close C, do you just let go of the joystick and hit  ;c so not to get a throw?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on July 16, 2011, 06:36:58 AM
So how does the game differente cl. ;c from regular throws( ;fd +  ;c)? Sorry, I come from a SF3/4 background where throws are done with two buttons, and I'm used to pressing forward while getting in on the offensive. When you want a close C, do you just let go of the joystick and hit  ;c so not to get a throw?

That's one way, or just dependent on range. Remember, SFII also had Strong Normal + Direction in order to do it's throws.

Also, if an enemy is already in hitstun, you have no chance to do a throw on them. You won't attempt it, and the forward + attack will be interpeted as just a really close strong attack.

Landing a throw rather than an attack is actually a good thing, most of the time. You might not be able to combo out of it, but once you see that you've scored a good, solid knockdown, the mixups begin!

Also, SNK games actually have a "back turned" state for characters. If your throw turns them around, it takes a bit longer for the opponent to recover on wakeup, letting your get back in SLIGHTLY easier. Also, back turn hitstun/push is different, so sometimes you can do combos that you wouldn't be able to otherwise.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: jeremycarrier on July 16, 2011, 06:46:19 AM
Another question I have is what I seen refered to as "autoguard". I've seen K' jump  ;d Shen right when he was doing his st. ;c, the ;c stopped/freeze-framed for a second, then kept going like nothing happened and knocked K' away.

What's up with that? What moves have those properties? What is the limit of their effectiveness(and yes, I've seen the "Maxima Guard Points Everything" video, which just made me more curious)?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on July 16, 2011, 06:55:18 AM
Autoguard is basically armor for however long during the move. It'll absorb stuff for however long it has guard point then continue the move. That's the easiest explanation I can give since I don't really know about the specifics.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on July 16, 2011, 07:05:08 AM
Another question I have is what I seen refered to as "autoguard". I've seen K' jump  ;d Shen right when he was doing his st. ;c, the ;c stopped/freeze-framed for a second, then kept going like nothing happened and knocked K' away.

What's up with that? What moves have those properties? What is the limit of their effectiveness(and yes, I've seen the "Maxima Guard Points Everything" video, which just made me more curious)?

Dunno if you have played MvC3, if you have then Sentinel is a great example of a character with AutoGuard.

But yeah, basically some character moves have AutoGuard, Shen s.;c is one, Maxima s.;c , s.;d, and qcb + ;c have it. But in Maxima is easier to notice, you will see a big blue bubble when his AutoGuard kicks in. Some EX move have it, but besides that I haven't really check all of them. You can find most of this info in the Wiki of this page.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on July 16, 2011, 07:16:34 AM
Basically, if the move hits fast enough, and is an actual hit (Like say, Joe Higashi's Screw upper DM) then a Guard point can absorb the entire move, doing no chip damage to you, and let you get the advantage with an attack, after the move ends.

If a move is kinda slow (Like, say, maybe King's double strike), the Guard point will just absorb 1 blow, and you'll continue your move animation... and get hit by the second blow.

Basically, certain frames of moves have Autoguard / Guard points. If soemthing hits those points, during those frames, and KEEPS hitting fast enough, the character will stay in that frame, until the attacks are over.

An important note VS similiarity to sentinel and hulk in MvC3: they have a limited number of hits in their Autoguard (theirs is more like super armor). So if you lands those hits before their animation happens, they LOSE their guard, and enter normal hitstun. That doesn't happen in KoF, they can take unlimited hits, as long as the hits come fast enough.

Note: You can beat autoguard by combing from the guarded move, into a command throw, or a move with quick invincibility. This is pretty fun to do!

Moves that have these properties? I might miss a few:

K' EX Minute Spike
Takuma's EX Kyoukugen Ko Ou
Maxima's Vapor Cannon, Double Vapor Cannon DMs, Ground CD, Far C, Close C, Crouching C, Far & Close D, & EX M19 Blitz Cannon
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Amedø310 on July 17, 2011, 04:01:07 PM
So do we have a list of all the moves that can hit the opponent off a non-counter anti-air attack?

Off my head I have:

Elizabeth: DM qcfhcb+P
K': EX air qcb+K
Raiden: Level 2/3 Drop Kick
Vice: EX hcf+K
Takuma: EX fbf+P

Is there more?

Also Hwa Jia's ex uppercuts.

Does anyone think that the meter gain from special moves needs explanation, for example, Kyo's hcb+B/D. A whiff hcb+B/D builds meter 1 time, a blocked hcb+B/D builds meter 2 times, and a hit-confrimed hcb+B/D builds meter 4 times.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on July 19, 2011, 12:35:22 PM
I don't know if it's known here so just in case, throws comes out in one frame, 10 frames to tech throw.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on July 19, 2011, 11:49:38 PM
I don't know if it's known here so just in case, throws comes out in one frame, 10 frames to tech throw.

I didn't about that normal throws come out in one frame? I thought it was like 3, I did know about the 10 frames to tech, that's a pretty big window.l
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on July 20, 2011, 10:22:06 AM
Normal throws have been known instant since the beginning.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on July 20, 2011, 04:14:23 PM
So if they are 1 frame, that means I can grab Duolon after reka, reka, reka, teleport?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on July 20, 2011, 07:12:59 PM
So if they are 1 frame, that means I can grab Duolon after reka, reka, reka, teleport?

Of course you can. I thought we knew this already lol
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on July 20, 2011, 09:24:02 PM
Yeah I knew you could do it but the timing is a bit weird so it's something you have to actively look for.

Gonna throw in my own question here. I'm pretty much confirmed on this but I'm gonna ask just to be sure. Is it true that you can get "crossed up" in the corner still? When I was playing the other day and I was getting blown up for holding back in the corner. Jump in attacks were hitting even though I wasn't pressing buttons so I'm guessing you can get crossed up in the corner even though they land on the same side.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Amedø310 on July 21, 2011, 03:15:02 AM
Yeah I knew you could do it but the timing is a bit weird so it's something you have to actively look for.

Gonna throw in my own question here. I'm pretty much confirmed on this but I'm gonna ask just to be sure. Is it true that you can get "crossed up" in the corner still? When I was playing the other day and I was getting blown up for holding back in the corner. Jump in attacks were hitting even though I wasn't pressing buttons so I'm guessing you can get crossed up in the corner even though they land on the same side.

Yes. corner cross-ups have been in kof for a long time.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on July 21, 2011, 03:39:29 AM
Yeah I knew you could do it but the timing is a bit weird so it's something you have to actively look for.

Well, after rekkas on block, Duo Lon doesn't have much choice but to teleport. I mean even if he could drive cancel into something else, you'd be in blockstun anyway so nothing would come out if you mashed a throw (bad idea if you have a mash special like Ralf or Clark though). You might as well anticipate the throw under those circumstances. Case in point: the teleport is after rekkas, it's not really something random you have to look for.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on July 21, 2011, 06:12:47 AM
So if they are 1 frame, that means I can grab Duolon after reka, reka, reka, teleport?

Yup, you can see me  throwing b.a.l.a with Mai's normal throw here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP6rcGGSiIc#t=11m40).  The's still something that I need to reconfirm but apparently since there are different speeds you can input the rekkas; for now it seems like if you do the rekkas at the fastest speed on block, teleport, you're apparently safe but I have to confirm this.  Done at a slower pace (think '98 Iori's Deadly Flowers rekkas), you can definitely be thrown.

Which brings me to a interesting point:  Does that mean block stun is actually stacked on to each other?  If said conditions are true, then the reason you, seemingly, cannot throw Duo Lon on the "faster" rekkas is because your blockstun is too "high" vs it being lower since there's a slight "cool down" between hits.

EDIT: Scratch that.  I watched an older video and you can throw him no matter what speed.  Considering that's his only true block string/special, that sucks for DL user.  :(

Well, after rekkas on block, Duo Lon doesn't have much choice but to teleport. I mean even if he could drive cancel into something else, you'd be in blockstun anyway so nothing would come out if you mashed a throw (bad idea if you have a mash special like Ralf or Clark though).

I'm not sure I'm comprehending this correctly, but if you're suggesting DL to [DC] into something else while blocking--he'd have to be in HD since you can't [DC] on blocking opponents normally.  

As for Clark and Ralf, just hold back and spam D instead of C.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Remzi on July 21, 2011, 02:58:08 PM

Yes. corner cross-ups have been in kof for a long time.
Is it P2 only like lots of older KOF games?

Anyways, if you're in HD mode and you die, do you lose all of it, or do you get some of the HD bar back? Not sure if this was already asked, sorry if it was.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on July 21, 2011, 03:46:17 PM
Pretty sure you lose all HD mode if you die with it on. Even if you just started it during the hit that K.O'd ya.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on July 21, 2011, 07:37:14 PM

Yes. corner cross-ups have been in kof for a long time.
Is it P2 only like lots of older KOF games?

Anyways, if you're in HD mode and you die, do you lose all of it, or do you get some of the HD bar back? Not sure if this was already asked, sorry if it was.
Pretty sure you lose all HD mode if you die with it on. Even if you just started it during the hit that K.O'd ya.

Yup, you lose your drive if you die in HD.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on July 21, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
I'm not sure I'm comprehending this correctly, but if you're suggesting DL to [DC] into something else while blocking--he'd have to be in HD since you can't [DC] on blocking opponents normally.  

As for Clark and Ralf, just hold back and spam D instead of C.

It was just a theoretical example, if you could, that it wouldn't hurt to be aware of the opportunity and attempt the throw regardless.

And good tip on Clark/Ralf. Totally forgot about D throws lol
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on July 22, 2011, 02:50:00 AM
K' EX Minute Spike
Takuma's EX Kyoukugen Ko Ou
Maxima's Vapor Cannon, Double Vapor Cannon DMs, Ground CD, Far C, Close C, Crouching C, Far & Close D, & EX M19 Blitz Cannon

And Ralf's EX Burning Hammer I believe.

Question: Does stun damage ever suffer from any kind of scaling? It doesn't seem like it, but I wanted to check.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on July 22, 2011, 03:21:35 AM
K' EX Minute Spike
Takuma's EX Kyoukugen Ko Ou
Maxima's Vapor Cannon, Double Vapor Cannon DMs, Ground CD, Far C, Close C, Crouching C, Far & Close D, & EX M19 Blitz Cannon

And Ralf's EX Burning Hammer I believe.

Question: Does stun damage ever suffer from any kind of scaling? It doesn't seem like it, but I wanted to check.

That's a good question.  I think it does not go down during HD combos or special modes like Ash's ABCD but I need to check about the actual scaling; I'm guessing no otherwise we wouldn't see so many stun combos.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Remzi on July 22, 2011, 03:43:32 AM
Yup, you lose your drive if you die in HD.
Damn, it's not like MB's MAX where death gives you a bit back. :3
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on July 23, 2011, 10:10:19 AM
I don't know if it's known here so just in case, throws comes out in one frame, 10 frames to tech throw.
Erratum it's 3 frames, i thought i cancel a move by the throw and it was just start frames. Sorry.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dr.Faust on July 30, 2011, 03:51:47 AM
anyone know if they fixed the Takuma's wake up issue.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on July 30, 2011, 03:53:02 AM
anyone know if they fixed the Takuma's wake up issue.

Notes from yesterday say YES.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on August 02, 2011, 07:08:04 PM
talking about throws i dont know if this is a stupid question but how is it possible to run and then do a throw ? i mean in some vids it seems so fast that i think a punch would come out.u just need to go neutral and forward C or D ? or there is something that i ignore ? cause it seems sooooo fast sometimes
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on August 02, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
talking about throws i dont know if this is a stupid question but how is it possible to run and then do a throw ? i mean in some vids it seems so fast that i think a punch would come out.u just need to go neutral and forward C or D ? or there is something that i ignore ? cause it seems sooooo fast sometimes
Usually it's : ff,b+ ;c/ ;d
You must back to neutral before throw the opponent and you need a direction, so the easiest way is to put the stick on b. Moreover with kof13 system you can throw either side with the same manipulation.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on August 02, 2011, 07:51:47 PM
talking about throws i dont know if this is a stupid question but how is it possible to run and then do a throw ? i mean in some vids it seems so fast that i think a punch would come out.u just need to go neutral and forward C or D ? or there is something that i ignore ? cause it seems sooooo fast sometimes
Usually it's : ff,b+ ;c/ ;d
You must back to neutral before throw the opponent and you need a direction, so the easiest way is to put the stick on b. Moreover with kof13 system you can throw either side with the same manipulation.

kk thanks
;)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: ZeWickedOreo on August 03, 2011, 04:24:23 AM
Excuse me.. but will canceling rdp into qcf (e.g Kensou's rdp+P [1hit], [DC] qcf+P...) work with... rdp+P, f+P then follow up with qcf+ P?
or there's another shorcut for that? :)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Demoninja on August 03, 2011, 04:33:57 AM
Excuse me.. but will canceling rdp into qcf (e.g Kensou's rdp+P [1hit], [DC] qcf+P...) work with... rdp+P, f+P then follow up with qcf+ P?
or there's another shorcut for that? :)

I don't get it why do you need a shortcut for rdp into qcf? The reason people use a "shortcut" for dp (DC) qcf is to avoid any overlap in inputs resulting in accidental supers.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: ZeWickedOreo on August 03, 2011, 04:34:40 AM
Ohhhh.. I thought it's for making combos easieerr my baad! :))
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on August 05, 2011, 12:21:41 PM
its so that you wont accidentally do  ;dn ;df ;fd x2 supers.

also i was wondering something about the console version. now with the change of hd mode NM costing only 2 super bars, anybody think it would be a good idea if NM would cost 3 superbars but no DC bar if done as a stand alone move or in non hd combos? i hate the fact that they are limmiting the use of NM for hd mode, it just costs too much if your not in hd to ever warant using it (unless its a punish that you otherwise couldt do, for instance kyo's NM full screen away to punish a fb etc). they are already asking for 3 stocks, why kill my dc bar to? its just not fair, its not like characters are stocked with dm bars all the time.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mr.KOF on August 05, 2011, 12:38:27 PM
its so that you wont accidentally do  ;dn ;df ;fd x2 supers.

also i was wondering something about the console version. now with the change of hd mode NM costing only 2 super bars, anybody think it would be a good idea if NM would cost 3 superbars but no DC bar if done as a stand alone move or in non hd combos? i hate the fact that they are limmiting the use of NM for hd mode, it just costs too much if your not in hd to ever warant using it (unless its a punish that you otherwise couldt do, for instance kyo's NM full screen away to punish a fb etc). they are already asking for 3 stocks, why kill my dc bar to? its just not fair, its not like characters are stocked with dm bars all the time.

Because no one is thinking to be hit by a random NEOMAX that takes a lot of blood from the opponent. That's why most of the casts possess  EX Moves to go through Fireballs my friend.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on August 05, 2011, 01:00:14 PM
sup mr famous, i saw you in the mike ross docu when i was ff through it.

the kyo example was just an example btw. the problem wit the NM, especially for me, is i dont like hd combos. if i get an opening i go for ex moves and dc combos (thats what i will be doing, done it a lil on the pc but the shit runs fucked up with frame rates and such). if your doing combos and you wanna do damage you already have to spend dc or super bars, if your using a character like kim you probably have to use both (only way kim can save his DC is by using superbars,  ;dn ;df ;fd x2 +K and  ;fd ;fd ;a into  ;dn ;db ;bk ;b ;d.) without going into HD mode by using ex moves and dc cancels being able to go into NM combos from there would be a blessing imo.

the reason i think this would still be fair is simple. in hd mode its 2 bars for nm, your going to lose your hd bar none the less. now the moment you use NM hd bar runs out and the move comes out for 2 stocks. i dont think it seems such a bad idea that when not in HD mode you get to keep your dc bar but spend the 3 superstocks when not in hd.

btw, what did you think of the console version? you play it in evo?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on August 05, 2011, 02:57:09 PM
If you don't wanna do full HD combos, but you want the cheaper Neomax, just do a normal-command normal (HD activate), Normal, Neomax. I know it still uses the HD bar, but I think it's worth it.

From my (Extremly limited) experience, I think it's quite alright that Neomax's take Full HD meter, just like it was alright that LDMs and HSDMs took modifiers like skill stocks, or low health. Some of these things are a SERIOUS game changer for those who know how to use them; You'd never wanna jump at Takuma or Hwa Jai again, and just about any approach/fireball/whiffed move on Maxima is hugely damaging. And forget doing ANYTHING that leave you open, when Kyo has his NM ready... Unless you're Leona. Baltic Launcher totally eats Kyo's flaming *Welcome to KoF!* invite, to my personal enjoyment.

Anyway, I shudder to think of the kind of combos people would come up with, if NM's didn't take drive cancel. 400 + damage NM into double Drive cancel juggle combos into EXDM / EX moves would get pretty ridiculous. Some characters like Takuma and Ash might even come up with double NM combos, if such a thing was a feature in the game.

EXDM's are plenty strong by themselves anyway. EX move into EXDM basically is a custom Neomax with many characters, and some EX moves make such large openings, that they don't even demand super-cancelling.

I have to say, I'm rather happy with the way the systems are set up now. It seems to allow you to get similiar damage in a multitude of ways, without making one blatantly more powerful than the next.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on August 05, 2011, 03:13:18 PM
nice analysis, but all those negative things can be straitened out with some time. combos using ex dm and nm would still take 5 bars (last char combo) so it wouldnt be that big of a deal./ if they change some of the combos so that they wont fill as much meter be able to do 2 nm's and such. either way im off, too tired to make sense.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on August 05, 2011, 03:17:31 PM
The idea behind HD NM costing less I think is to make it easier to land big damage with a simpler HD combo, making it more accessable skill wise.

And Musolini, you should reconsider your no HD combo stance if you are going to take the game seriously. You will put yourself at a big disadvantage. HD combos can deal big damage even if you have zero power bars.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on August 05, 2011, 03:23:50 PM
i didnt say i wasnt going to use them, i use all the skills needed to play any kof game (cept 2k1/xi& mi games). its just that i dont like them very much, andf ill probabkly be using way more dc combos and ex moves in my style of play any way. you got people that use 2 or 3 stocks and full hd and take 70 to 90% damage. im the kind of guy that uses 1 dc stock and 1 or 2 super bars but kill you in 2 combos kinda guy. that doesnt mean that when i have a full hd meter anbd i can land the damage and close the round i wont do it, cause i will.

i know a lot of people like their custom combos, but thats the part of kof i like the least about 02 and xiii. however not liking them and not using them are 2 sepperate things.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on August 05, 2011, 03:35:01 PM
Fair enough.

As for not liking custom combos (which DC combos are as well technically), I think it was a smart decision to include it in XIII (even though I didn't like it in 2k2) because it brings that extra bit of hype and excitement to matches. The mechanic overall seems much better implemented this time, ppl use it all the time in XIII but not so much in 2k2 (even the 2k2UM matches I catch these days rarely use it).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mr.KOF on August 06, 2011, 07:33:31 AM
Performing Drive cancels are essential in taking the most damage in given situations. But HD is great especially if you know that your character can utilize it without having to burn any super meter. KOF 13 console is definitely the game to play, yes, they did tone down kim,ash,andy, and many others in the cast. THE GAME is balanced. So, let's just be thankful and look forward to it when it gets out. No point in explaining the difference because the game itself feels almost like a new game to learn again with all the tweaks.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on August 06, 2011, 07:53:40 AM
good to hear they changed a lot of shit. didnt know they weakened kim, he wasnt even that strong to begin with (not like k, R, L, Ku). at least terry got buffed with his link, but if that everything hes got it aint that big of a buff imo. i hope they changed the way you can juggle after a hard crackshoot juggle (you couldnt hit ex/geyser and a lot of moves missed after it for no appearant reason at all). since joe can cancel his screw into NM, maybe terry can now also do the same wit geyser (good buff if so).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Chipymax on August 09, 2011, 07:29:35 AM
Now that they have change the console version so much from the arcade version, I'm a little happy that I didn't play the arcade version... because I won't get surprises or get mad that a combo that work in the arcade doesn't work in the console. I can take everything as new.

P.S: I only saying this, because I try to find and play one, but it was a little bit hard.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on August 10, 2011, 08:56:16 AM
to all the people who had a chance to play the console version, i think that fixing the cross up issue also fixed something else very important and probably related to the same problem. surprised non of the usual crowd that plays the arcade mentioned this?

remember in arcade, when crossed up there where many instances the cpu could not determin where to drop the character, left or right disregarding cross up or not. i think most of you have also noticed that when you shot a fb to somebody getting up or somebody happened to jump into your fb (especially ground fb's, cant remember if it was for normal ones too) and the fb was half way their body it would not hit them. so when you times a fb to hit somebody as they where just getting up, you set it up in a way the the front of the fb hits their front. if even a slight delay and the fb is right on them or on their back side, tough luck.

now look at 13 console vids, i think fixing the cross up issue actually fixed this as well. now when you shoot a fb as they get up and the fb is on their sprite or even at the back side of the sprite, they still get hit or need to block it for chip. most probably didnt notice this, but this is a huge improvement of the game. and i personally think it might actually have to do with the programming for the cross ups that also has an effect on this mechanic (because even if the fb was in the sprites hitbox, it would not hit unless it hit them right in their face, their asses were covered for the most part, even the middle of the sprite was covered back in arcade).

edit: i wanted to make a new user id after 969 posts, guess not.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on August 13, 2011, 01:55:08 PM
question

the new terry A into C combo and all the combos in the game like this r  link or target combos ? im not talking about command normals so i was curious to know about the technical timing to do them if its like link or target combo

and crossups (even if fixed in console version) r easy to do like in shit fighter or harder like u need specific settings or situation to do them or all u just need is the right distance and u can do them whenever/wherever u want ? off course talking about crossups jump in and hops

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 15, 2011, 01:34:30 AM
question

the new terry A into C combo and all the combos in the game like this r  link or target combos ? im not talking about command normals so i was curious to know about the technical timing to do them if its like link or target combo

The timing for the d.A into d.C link is like any other timing (d.B, d.A), and it's rather easy as well.

and crossups (even if fixed in console version) r easy to do like in shitstreet fighter (be nice -Kane317) or harder like u need specific settings or situation to do them or all u just need is the right distance and u can do them whenever/wherever u want ? off course talking about crossups jump in and hops

The general hit box has been raised so most characters cannot hop over a standing opponent anymore in the console.  Crossup are still like any other KOF though, so you just have to time it and they are still very practical.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: metaphysics on August 15, 2011, 01:47:19 AM
question

the new terry A into C combo and all the combos in the game like this r  link or target combos ? im not talking about command normals so i was curious to know about the technical timing to do them if its like link or target combo

and crossups (even if fixed in console version) r easy to do like in shit fighter or harder like u need specific settings or situation to do them or all u just need is the right distance and u can do them whenever/wherever u want ? off course talking about crossups jump in and hops


it's not a link, which is when you combo from one move to another move using the first moves frame adv that's a link., d.A to d.C cancels into itself.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SAB-CA on August 15, 2011, 03:54:53 AM
From my playing, Terry's d. ;a , d. ;c and Mai's ;b , ;d are not links at all. The moves totally skip the start-up of the heavy hits when using them, and jump straight to the "DAMAGE!" portion of the attack. Much more like Target / Gattling / Rush attacks from other games.

People who hadn't played KoF at all before were stumbling onto these kinda combos without any prior knowledge; that leads me to believe that there's no difficult timing involved in the slightest, alongside my own experience.

They feel much like Chin and Andy's  ;b , ;d from XII (and now XIII), if you have that to reference.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: TAG7191 on August 15, 2011, 04:06:10 AM
I think SNK meant to make the fatal fury characters feel like....Fatal fury, (don't know why only Andy had a Target combo in XIII....) giving Mai and Terry these fatal fury-like target combos seem like a good idea.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: C 3 on August 15, 2011, 04:06:49 AM
Is there a drum or piano technique to utilize moves like Joe and Ralf's Punch rapidly attacks?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 15, 2011, 09:10:07 AM
Is there a drum or piano technique to utilize moves like Joe and Ralf's Punch rapidly attacks?

No, it's extremely easy, you'll get it on your first try.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Giby on August 15, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
Is there a drum or piano technique to utilize moves like Joe and Ralf's Punch rapidly attacks?

No, it's extremely easy, just mash the hell out of punch.

Fixed
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Amedø310 on August 19, 2011, 12:15:49 AM
In the wiki, do characters with cancelable neo maxes that change sides have notes? For example, Clark and Vice's throw supers have to be canceled by doing their neomax in the opposite direction.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 20, 2011, 01:23:26 PM
In the wiki, do characters with cancelable neo maxes that change sides have notes? For example, Clark and Vice's throw supers have to be canceled by doing their neomax in the opposite direction.

Sorry for the late reply, dunno how I miss this post but I'll add the notes tomorrow in the wiki.  Clark, Vice and Duo Lon's (off the Ex DM) all need to MaxCancel the opposite direction.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: arstal on August 22, 2011, 05:22:12 PM
On the mash moves, how hard are they to perform in comparison to other SNK games?  I remember them being really easy in some KOFs, but really hard in the FF games.

Also, on HD/drive cancels, how hard are they compared to Hakumen special into special combos? 

Looking for a good point of reference.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Amedø310 on August 22, 2011, 05:32:03 PM
On the mash moves, how hard are they to perform in comparison to other SNK games?  I remember them being really easy in some KOFs, but really hard in the FF games.

Also, on HD/drive cancels, how hard are they compared to Hakumen special into special combos? 

Looking for a good point of reference.



Smash moves are easy to do.

As for hd/drive cancels they are about the same differculty or more to hakumen move cancels. It depends on what moves are being canceled from and into. For example: It's very hard to cancel K's dp+P into qcf+P because the qcf+p would be read as the last inputs of "Heat Drive".
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on August 22, 2011, 06:05:43 PM
It's very hard to cancel K's dp+P into qcf+P because the qcf+p would be read as the last inputs of "Heat Drive".
WTF are you saying?
Just do :
6523+P,6+P to do dp.P,(DC)qcf.P

The main difficulty is on charge characters, by example do d~c.K,(SC)qcfqcf.K can be hard to do because you must SC before kim is in the air, but you can buff it : (2)3698+K,236+K and it's still hard but not impossible.

However some move must be cancel at precise timings, like dp into ice spin with Kula, if you do it too fast the spin will miss. K' has also some tricky things because shada is making you cross down your opponent so you must inverse the shada followup (or dp i can't remember) command ...


Smahs moves are quite easy to do BUT joe ones needs some precise inputs timing to do them at the right speed to allow the combo or do it extremely fast to make it link.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: UltimaOriginal on August 22, 2011, 06:14:44 PM
On the mash moves, how hard are they to perform in comparison to other SNK games?  I remember them being really easy in some KOFs, but really hard in the FF games.

Also, on HD/drive cancels, how hard are they compared to Hakumen special into special combos? 

Looking for a good point of reference.



Smash moves are easy to do.

As for hd/drive cancels they are about the same differculty or more to hakumen move cancels. It depends on what moves are being canceled from and into. For example: It's very hard to cancel K's dp+P into qcf+P because the qcf+p would be read as the last inputs of "Heat Drive".

I can't agree with you. Hakumen's specials are much rather easier to cancel into each other. Because in KoF there are certain frames-"windows" to cancel. That's why SNKP provided video "technical reference" to point out those frames to cancel. It's not like you can put next special when you want (start-up, active, recovery).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on August 22, 2011, 06:18:47 PM
I can't agree with you. Hakumen's specials are much rather easier to cancel into each other. Because in KoF there are certain frames-"windows" to cancel. That's why SNKP provided video "technical reference" to point out those frames to cancel. It's not like you can put next special when you want (start-up, active, recovery).
There are a very few moves who are allowed to be drive cancel at multiple times, for those one there is a timing component but for the other one the buffer is making those drive cancel easy because you just have to input it as soon as possible to do the combo, the buffer will make it cancel at the first frame there it's possible.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: UltimaOriginal on August 22, 2011, 06:26:30 PM
Yeah, forgot to mention such multihit moves like Kyo's dp+P.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Amedø310 on August 22, 2011, 10:12:59 PM
It's very hard to cancel K's dp+P into qcf+P because the qcf+p would be read as the last inputs of "Heat Drive".
WTF are you saying?
Just do :
6523+P,6+P to do dp.P,(DC)qcf.P

Wait, that's for HD cancel or DC cancel? It's easy in HD mode but, for me, just regular dc mode is pretty hard if I have meter. Well, thanks for that info. I kept doing 6523+P,236+P.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on August 23, 2011, 12:43:31 AM
It's very hard to cancel K's dp+P into qcf+P because the qcf+p would be read as the last inputs of "Heat Drive".
WTF are you saying?
Just do :
6523+P,6+P to do dp.P,(DC)qcf.P

Wait, that's for HD cancel or DC cancel? It's easy in HD mode but, for me, just regular dc mode is pretty hard if I have meter. Well, thanks for that info. I kept doing 6523+P,236+P.

In HD you can do : 623+P,6+P , and the hd cancel will comes out.

K is a special case because the timing is really strict, here there is a tips : use the dp ""shortcut"" motion hcb,f
So to do dp.P,(DC)qcf.P, do hcb,f.P,qcf.P
And you wont do a SDM.
 
(And yeah it's hcB, do 6321456+P,5236+P)

With this shortcut you can also do a option select with char like athena, do hcf.P,b.P; on a waking up opponent will throw him hif he guards and dp him if he rolls behind you.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dark Chaotix on August 24, 2011, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Sharnt

With this shortcut you can also do a option select with char like athena, do hcf.P,b.P; on a waking up opponent will throw him hif he guards and dp him if he rolls behind you.

Have you got a vid of this??
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 25, 2011, 04:57:29 AM
Quote from: Sharnt

With this shortcut you can also do a option select with char like athena, do hcf.P,b.P; on a waking up opponent will throw him hif he guards and dp him if he rolls behind you.

Well, I dunno if a video well help much; It'll just show him either throwing or dp'ing. Have you got a vid of this??
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on August 25, 2011, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: Sharnt

With this shortcut you can also do a option select with char like athena, do hcf.P,b.P; on a waking up opponent will throw him hif he guards and dp him if he rolls behind you.

Well, I dunno if a video well help much; It'll just show him either throwing or dp'ing. Have you got a vid of this??

And yeah making a video doesn't make a lot of sens because you will see athena grab then make a dp after the roll ... And it's not that powerfull, it's better to hit confirm on the roll a cr.B to punish far harder.
Moreover i can't do it because i'm needing help for the second character.
I tried it with a friend sometimes, it seems to works quite well. But that os isn't that powerful if you think at maxima's one :p (safe jump hop C, qcbqcb.AC)

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Running Wild on August 25, 2011, 12:27:05 PM
If only the notation on this board was consistent. This ain't no Mashy Blood or Brazpoo.

We have ;dn ;df ;fd ;a. Use it. :D
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dark Chaotix on August 25, 2011, 01:05:54 PM
I wanted a vid to see it working or other situations. I dont recall players using "option select" in kof let only it existing in kof at all.

I guess at the end of the day, option select is an sf term to me and I dont want this turning out to be like an sf game. It annoys me that someone can input a movement and works out in their favor regardless....
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on August 25, 2011, 01:31:19 PM
There are option select, just do f.C is an option select anti roll where you're zoning with your C and throw the oponent if he rolls ... (It's a part of the power of Ryo corner pressing because of hif stand D you can't roll out of the corner easily)

Kof has a LOT of options selects (Just take a look at K' on arcade edition and you will shred in tears) but because of the mechanic of whose games where aren't too powerfull like in sf series.

Where are a few powerful option select in kof XIII like Maxima's one :
Safe jump hop C,qcbqcb.AC
If the C land it's comboing into air ex vapor canon, if it's guarded you're safe, if the opponent rolls forward you hit him with the sdm if he rolls backward you hit him with a Ex vapor canon, if the opponent use an invincible move it's safe jumped (some char have unsafejumpable move such as K').

But it's an exception.

Quote
I dont recall players using "option select"
Because you don't see when an option select is used ...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: milesw on August 26, 2011, 11:30:57 PM
Noob question
what kind of hop is being used when you are pressuring a cornered opponent?
Eg Kyo spamming j.CD on his cornered opponent.

Edit:
Also I'd like for you guys to rate my team in terms of team synergy

I currently use
Vice, Kensou and yuri
In that order
I put Vice first because I believe she relies less on meter and yuri last because I believe she has the largest damage output with meter out of her and kensou.

Can someone suggest a good strategy based around this team?
Im open to character changes
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Xxenace on August 27, 2011, 12:36:42 AM
Noob question
what kind of hop is being used when you are pressuring a cornered opponent?
Eg Kyo spamming j.CD on his cornered opponent.

Edit:
Also I'd like for you guys to rate my team in terms of team synergy

I currently use
Vice, Kensou and yuri
In that order
I put Vice first because I believe she relies less on meter and yuri last because I believe she has the largest damage output with meter out of her and kensou.

Can someone suggest a good strategy based around this team?
Im open to character changes
actually bro vice uses a lot of meter so you may want to keep her in the back of your team
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 27, 2011, 12:38:12 AM
Noob question

No such thing.

what kind of hop is being used when you are pressuring a cornered opponent?
Eg Kyo spamming j.CD on his cornered opponent.

Well each of the 4 jumps have their own uses so there's no correct answer to that.  The hop itself has the shortest horizontal distance but hyper hop is also quicker if that's what you're asking. Also, j.CD puts the opponent in a longer block stun than any other hit.

Edit:
Also I'd like for you guys to rate my team in terms of team synergy

I currently use
Vice, Kensou and yuri
In that order
I put Vice first because I believe she relies less on meter and yuri last because I believe she has the largest damage output with meter out of her and kensou.

Can someone suggest a good strategy based around this team?
Im open to character changes

I would definitely swap Kensou and Vice around.  Vice actually depends a lot on meter and she doesn't build up meter very easily as she doesn't really have a special that is safe on block (short of her hcb+K Decide if you count that).   Kensou on the other hand has his Rekkas and his projectile to zone them out, he's also very fast and agile to put the pressure on.  Yuri is a toss up.  She's ok without meter but of course like most, works better with meter+drive.  If you're Yuri is very strong, then you can keep her last because your Vice should hog a lot of the resources, but if you're Yuri's not that competant yet, put Vice last.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: milesw on August 27, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
I see. I would say Yuri is my strongest character and I rely on her for comebacks. So yeah I believe I should put her last then use Kensou first to spam fireballs and build meter while at the same time avoiding using EX attacks on the first round?

As for Yuri make sure she has enough meter for houyoku corner carry combos and saiha corner loops etc...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Amedø310 on August 27, 2011, 01:33:09 AM
Sorry for the late reply, dunno how I miss this post but I'll add the notes tomorrow in the wiki.  Clark, Vice and Duo Lon's (off the Ex DM) all need to MaxCancel the opposite direction.

Leona's Neomax as well should be added. Even when she does qcb hcf+K in the corner and she's on the right side to do her neomax cancel with qcb hcf+AC, she has to do qcf hcb+AC which is very strange.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 27, 2011, 04:36:23 AM
I see. I would say Yuri is my strongest character and I rely on her for comebacks. So yeah I believe I should put her last then use Kensou first to spam fireballs and build meter while at the same time avoiding using EX attacks on the first round?

As for Yuri make sure she has enough meter for houyoku corner carry combos and saiha corner loops etc...


Yup, you get the gist of it =)

Sorry for the late reply, dunno how I miss this post but I'll add the notes tomorrow in the wiki.  Clark, Vice and Duo Lon's (off the Ex DM) all need to MaxCancel the opposite direction.

Leona's Neomax as well should be added. Even when she does qcb hcf+K in the corner and she's on the right side to do her neomax cancel with qcb hcf+AC, she has to do qcf hcb+AC which is very strange.

Good eye, I missed that one.

---

To shift the discussion a little: With the console dropping the requirement of NM ( performed within HD) to 2 stocks only, and with meter building up quicker now more than every before (it seems that blocking adds more meter to the defending character than the attacker now), the options of meter usage is going to get real interesting.

Do you go for the a) HD+NM 2 stock, b) the HD+added juggles+Ex DM, or c) still stick with 2 drives and some Ex moves (very likely building a 3rd meter during the combo as well)?  They all have the same requirement yet a very different outcome depending on the character and very feasible for the first / second round I might add.  Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on August 27, 2011, 11:20:30 PM
this talk about sinergy is very interesting and there were days ago i was thinkin about it and ask u for suggestions.
first of all i never had chance to play xiii yet but for sure im the kind of guy who uses female characters only.
the only sure thing is leona ll be in my team for sure and i was lookin for vice and king as well but i think my team is composed by all of meter depending girls (all of them to put as 2nd or 3rd place) i was thinkin about king vice leona or king leona vice but i have huge doubts about the sinergy between those 3. i was considering mai too since she is got buffed and seems a good character now or yuri or if they do the good surprise to put in b mary she would be a sure choice for me too !!
 im also thinking that u can always change the way to play with them and use meter considering  how the match is goin on but u cant avoid the fact that it should be right and common to massimize the damage and feel free to use meters when u need it without the think of ... what the f*** is goin to do my 3rd if i use this now ?
any suggests ?
and another techincal question : when u activate NM after low attacks and u r far it does an auto dash and auto fierce attack so ... then u dont have to push C or D again right ? u have to go straight to the special move ? and who choose what kind of strong attack is after the activation ? C or D ?
hope i explained well the questions and thanks guys
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on August 28, 2011, 12:50:08 AM
and another techincal question : when u activate NM after low attacks and u r far it does an auto dash and auto fierce attack so ... then u dont have to push C or D again right ? u have to go straight to the special move ? and who choose what kind of strong attack is after the activation ? C or D ?
hope i explained well the questions and thanks guys

I feel I can answer these questions. First off, there are actually two kinds of HD (not NM) activation. Early at late.

If you press BC early (i.e. as soon as cl.C hits), you'll auto-dash. After that, you can use C or D (or others) like you said. But you DO have to press C or D. Choose C or D depending on your character. With Terry I use D, since it hits once, meaning less damage scaling. With Shen I always use C.

If you press BC late (i.e. delayed a bit after cl.C hits), you won't dash. Instead, C will come out instead. I don't use this much, but it can be useful in some situations. For example, Kensou can do cr.B x 2 (late HD) (auto) cl.C -> HD combo. This isn't necessary, but it simplifies the inputs a bit.

Hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MetalThrashingMadman on August 28, 2011, 01:30:17 AM
To shift the discussion a little: With the console dropping the requirement of NM ( performed within HD) to 2 stocks only, and with meter building up quicker now more than every before (it seems that blocking adds more meter to the defending character than the attacker now), the options of meter usage is going to get real interesting.

Do you go for the a) HD+NM 2 stock, b) the HD+added juggles+Ex DM, or c) still stick with 2 drives and some Ex moves (very likely building a 3rd meter during the combo as well)?  They all have the same requirement yet a very different outcome depending on the character and very feasible for the first / second round I might add.  Just some food for thought.

I would have to go with option A in the beginning. A shorter combo that ends with a neomax just makes more sense until I acquire the level of execution needed to do longer combos.

Also, Kim's neomax is just so freakin' bad ass. I imagine I'll be using it a lot.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on August 28, 2011, 02:07:21 AM
and another techincal question : when u activate NM after low attacks and u r far it does an auto dash and auto fierce attack so ... then u dont have to push C or D again right ? u have to go straight to the special move ? and who choose what kind of strong attack is after the activation ? C or D ?
hope i explained well the questions and thanks guys

I feel I can answer these questions. First off, there are actually two kinds of HD (not NM) activation. Early at late.

If you press BC early (i.e. as soon as cl.C hits), you'll auto-dash. After that, you can use C or D (or others) like you said. But you DO have to press C or D. Choose C or D depending on your character. With Terry I use D, since it hits once, meaning less damage scaling. With Shen I always use C.

If you press BC late (i.e. delayed a bit after cl.C hits), you won't dash. Instead, C will come out instead. I don't use this much, but it can be useful in some situations. For example, Kensou can do cr.B x 2 (late HD) (auto) cl.C -> HD combo. This isn't necessary, but it simplifies the inputs a bit.

Hope this makes sense.

yea of course i meant HD, im reading so much stuffs that i got confused :)
mmm ok so it is just about a delay thing not about what u press if strong or weaks.  damn is so frustrating i cant try by muself and have to bust ur balls and ask u guys :)
2 crouch B , delaied HD dont push the opponent too far to dont need a dash too ? i mean is a sure thing that the auto C will hit or it could happen that it whiff sometimes
and is it always a C coming out after the delaied HD ?
thanks for ur answer anyway and i look forward for some suggestions about the sinergy question too
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Violent Geese on August 28, 2011, 06:28:33 AM
I love this game! :)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on August 28, 2011, 09:04:45 AM
yea of course i meant HD, im reading so much stuffs that i got confused :)
mmm ok so it is just about a delay thing not about what u press if strong or weaks.  damn is so frustrating i cant try by muself and have to bust ur balls and ask u guys :)
2 crouch B , delaied HD dont push the opponent too far to dont need a dash too ? i mean is a sure thing that the auto C will hit or it could happen that it whiff sometimes
and is it always a C coming out after the delaied HD ?
thanks for ur answer anyway and i look forward for some suggestions about the sinergy question too

Don't worry about asking us questions. I enjoy teaching people (and learning) more about games I like, and I think a lot of fans here feel the same way.

A delayed HD activation always results in a C, because the input is BC. When two buttons are input simultaneously, the stronger button press takes priority. (If for example, you pressed BD by themselves, you'd get a D.)

Delayed HD activation is almost a trick. You're too late to cancel your attack into the dash, but too early to do standalone HD. Since the game won't let you auto-dash, or do the activation animation, it defaults to which ever button has priority, which is of course C. In this way, it's almost like a glitch, but hardly a game breaking one.

Actually, I confess that while I understand how it works, I'm not very clear on when and how to utilize it effectively. Hopefully other people can help with that.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: 4leaf on August 28, 2011, 10:34:39 AM
It would be good option to do a delayed HD for Leona. She can do 2B>2B>delayed HD>moon slasher>etc.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on August 28, 2011, 03:55:57 PM
ok thanks guys

yea i think it could be nice for leona and maybe for vice too
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dark Chaotix on August 28, 2011, 04:15:35 PM
Vice doesnt need delayed HD
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 28, 2011, 06:56:39 PM
Vice doesnt need delayed HD

Well nobody really needs to as you can do it manually, but if you're rhythmically-challenged like myself, sometimes it helps doing the delayed HD because you're keeping all the hits in the same rhythm (d.B, s.A, BC as if the BC was another s.A).  I do it for Chin since he can't use any command attacks to activate his HD.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: milesw on August 29, 2011, 12:39:48 AM
My friend is still waiting for his activation email. He's been waiting several days. Can a mod fix this?
Anyway he asked me to ask you guys this...
Quote
I need help reviewing the team i would like to play. i plan on using Duo/King/Shen in that order but i am in a predicament of the order if i should swap Duo and king around and how versatile the team is
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on August 29, 2011, 01:49:01 AM
My friend is still waiting for his activation email. He's been waiting several days. Can a mod fix this?
Anyway he asked me to ask you guys this...
Quote
I need help reviewing the team i would like to play. i plan on using Duo/King/Shen in that order but i am in a predicament of the order if i should swap Duo and king around and how versatile the team is

That's actually my current team lineup minus Shen. I would leave the order as is. Duo Lon works great meterless, so he can build up the meter that King would need. Shen is a monster as an anchor. I think it's a decent lineup, but aside from Shen, your damage potential isn't too great from this team. Duo gets damage off pokes and resets/mixups rather than long combos, and King needs meter to do much of anything. Shen is self sufficient for the most part, though. You do have a pressure, zoning, and all-around character, so your matchup versatility will be pretty flexible.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dark Chaotix on August 29, 2011, 02:22:50 AM
Vice doesnt need delayed HD

Well nobody really needs to as you can do it manually, but if you're rhythmically-challenged like myself, sometimes it helps doing the delayed HD because you're keeping all the hits in the same rhythm (d.B, s.A, BC as if the BC was another s.A).  I do it for Chin since he can't use any command attacks to activate his HD.

Id say main benefit of delayed HD is for hit confirm, but also for your reason.

Plus, my answer was towards the previous poster....
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on August 29, 2011, 03:05:13 AM
My friend is still waiting for his activation email. He's been waiting several days. Can a mod fix this?
Anyway he asked me to ask you guys this...
Quote
I need help reviewing the team i would like to play. i plan on using Duo/King/Shen in that order but i am in a predicament of the order if i should swap Duo and king around and how versatile the team is

PM me his email and I'll activate his account for you.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dark Chaotix on September 02, 2011, 07:31:10 AM
Kof has a LOT of options selects (Just take a look at K' on arcade edition and you will shred in tears) but because of the mechanic of whose games where aren't too powerfull like in sf series.

Can you explain what the K' ones are?

Also, you say "kof has a LOT" do you mean older kof or just xiii? Please provide explanation for examples. And I don't mean "throw" setups. I mean ones similar to your maxima example.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on September 02, 2011, 07:52:18 AM
Kof has a LOT of options selects (Just take a look at K' on arcade edition and you will shred in tears) but because of the mechanic of whose games where aren't too powerfull like in sf series.

Can you explain what the K' ones are?

Also, you say "kof has a LOT" do you mean older kof or just xiii? Please provide explanation for examples. And I don't mean "throw" setups. I mean ones similar to your maxima example.
For K' a friend of mine explains me those but i forget them, they are some running anti roll os to punish with an hd combo but i don't remember them.

Every kof i guess (i didn't play to all of them).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Dark Chaotix on September 02, 2011, 08:18:21 AM
For K' a friend of mine explains me those but i forget them, they are some running anti roll os to punish with an hd combo but i don't remember them.

Every kof i guess (i didn't play to all of them).

Can you find them out and report them because I would like to know, and that also goes for the older kofs too (the ones you did play)
Title: MOVED: Overhead properties
Post by: bigvador on September 02, 2011, 08:26:09 PM
do anybody kno if you can combo ;c ;fd ;b while the opponent is crouch blocking i notice that its a combo but if they block the first hit then they can block the overhead even if the opponent is crouching
Title: MOVED: Overhead properties
Post by: Rex Dart on September 02, 2011, 09:19:52 PM
The general rule in KOF is "A command normal overhead (like Leona's  ;fd ;b) loses its overhead properties when canceled into."

Same thing happens with Ryo's  ;fd ;a, Kyo and Kim's  ;fd ;b, Iori's  ;df ;c, etc. etc.
Title: MOVED: Overhead properties
Post by: Kane317 on September 02, 2011, 11:44:15 PM
The general rule in KOF is "A command normal overhead (like Leona's  ;fd ;b) loses its overhead properties when canceled into."

Same thing happens with Ryo's  ;fd ;a, Kyo and Kim's  ;fd ;b, Iori's  ;df ;c, etc. etc.

There's only one loose exception (since it's not a command move, but it is an overhead) is Shen's qcb+A~qcf+A hammer.  It's the only overhead that retains it's property even in a combo. /OT
Title: MOVED: Overhead properties
Post by: Rex Dart on September 03, 2011, 12:55:42 AM
The general rule in KOF is "A command normal overhead (like Leona's  ;fd ;b) loses its overhead properties when canceled into."

Same thing happens with Ryo's  ;fd ;a, Kyo and Kim's  ;fd ;b, Iori's  ;df ;c, etc. etc.

There's only one loose exception (since it's not a command move, but it is an overhead) is Shen's qcb+A~qcf+A hammer.  It's the only overhead that retains it's property even in a combo. /OT
Yeah, special movies hardly ever have different properties like that.

But double-checking the mook, there ARE a few actual exceptions. Yuri's  ;fd ;b retains its overhead properties, as does Chin's ;df ;d. /also OT
Title: MOVED: Overhead properties
Post by: omegaryuji on September 03, 2011, 01:16:54 AM
Related note, does XIII still have the late cancel trick (where if you cancel into a command move late, it acts like the uncanceled version)?  Sounds like it'd benefit Leona decently if it still works.
Title: MOVED: Overhead properties
Post by: Kane317 on September 03, 2011, 02:18:02 AM
Yeah, special movies hardly ever have different properties like that.

But double-checking the mook, there ARE a few actual exceptions. Yuri's  ;fd ;b retains its overhead properties, as does Chin's ;df ;d. /also OT

Nitpick, Chin's df.D cannot be comboed into, so it's a standalone overhead.  I did not know about Yuri's f+A...and come to think of it I think her overhead is also too slow to combo into (neither of them register as 2 hits).

I'm going to move this to the gameplay section to keep it relevant. EDIT: Done.

Related note, does XIII still have the late cancel trick (where if you cancel into a command move late, it acts like the uncanceled version)?  Sounds like it'd benefit Leona decently if it still works.

I believe they took that out, but I'll double check the next time I get my hands on the game.


Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII 3rd |OT| Thread:Console Edition (UPDATE 8/26 1st p
Post by: C 3 on September 04, 2011, 09:11:51 AM
Hey guys, i really need your help.  Can someone explain the defensive options in this game? If a character doesnt have a dp or cr.C, what do i do to stop jump ins? Im so free once im on the defence :( im using ralf, hwa jai and vice.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII 3rd |OT| Thread:Console Edition (UPDATE 8/26 1st p
Post by: bigvador on September 04, 2011, 08:15:12 PM
Hey guys, i really need your help.  Can someone explain the defensive options in this game? If a character doesnt have a dp or cr.C, what do i do to stop jump ins? Im so free once im on the defence :( im using ralf, hwa jai and vice.
it really depends on what character u use and witch game for example ralf in XII has a anti air ;df ;a but i dont use it i find it better top hop back and use ;a or  ;b
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on September 04, 2011, 08:31:46 PM
If they're hopping, usually you can do standing A to knock them out. If they are super jumping over you for a cross up, you can also run under them and cross THEM up. It takes a bit of patience and timing, but it's useful :-D
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: C 3 on September 04, 2011, 11:26:50 PM
Thanks   guys, but im also referring to staple anti air option for full jumps..... staple stuff.  Does anybody have any practical answers for the characters i mentioned
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: bigvador on September 05, 2011, 03:02:27 AM
Thanks   guys, but im also referring to staple anti air option for full jumps..... staple stuff.  Does anybody have any practical answers for the characters i mentioned
for ralf you can do standing  ;a rapid   ;a or  ;c,  ;df ;a (jet upper), hop back  ;b (some times  ;c it depends) or hope back ;c ;d

for hwa u can do stand  ;a jump ;a jump  ;c ;d or  ;fd ;dn ;df ;b (it goes up if you do ;d it goes straight) and you may b able to do  ;dn ;db ;bk ;k i use it to keep them from jumping in but if your opponent is already in the air then im not sure

im not sure about her vice since i dont use her but i know jump  ;d is really good

hope that helped
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 05, 2011, 04:15:23 AM
I'll add for Vice just trade hits with anything (j.A, j.CD, s.A) and Ex hcf+K into follow ups.  Ralf use his qcb+P Ralf Bomb.   Hwa Jai has his Dragon Tail (qcb+K) and dp+K.
Title: Counters in general...(Moved from: Billy Kane)
Post by: marchefelix on September 06, 2011, 08:30:10 AM
I see people here like the counters in this game. However, just because they are cool doesn't necessarily mean they fit the game. I mean, I can literally count all of the counters in this game; that's how little they are. Shouldn't that mean something?

Here's what I have to say about the counters in this game:

Elisabeth's counter is amazing and I have seen it in good use. I'll give you guys that one. However, I can't say the same about Chin's counter. I've never seen it landed at all. As for the NeoMax counters, they're cool and powerful and all, but that doesn't mean anything if people don't use them. Also, whenever they do use them, it's always inside of a Max Cancel. What that tells me is that people don't have enough faith in their counters to use them as a NeoMax alone.

In short, counters aren't really put into use in this game, at least from what I've seen. And with all these videos of KOF XIII matches around the Internet, I am bound to have come across some vids of counters being used well.

Perhaps it's because counters weren't used a lot in matches that Billy didn't get his counters. That or they just wanted to be old school (by old school I mean KOF '95, where he didn't have his counters).
Title: Re: Billy Kane
Post by: SAB-CA on September 06, 2011, 09:20:19 AM
I've seen a lot of use of Chin's EX counter. And decent use of the normal one as an anti-air.

They don't use Goro or Betty's Neomax counters, because the meter cost was considered too high. But now, with the guage requirement down in HD mode on console, the point is that it could become a more viable tool.

I think they easily COULD have made Billy's counters work, I don't really buy the "too good for combos" excuse, that easily could have been handeled by a blowback attack, a dramatic recovery, or just making them non DC-able.

I think they just wanted to make Billy more about his Normals in this game. He has a fantastic close C, and 3 different command normals. His EX Sansetukonyuudanuchi seems to do DM-level damage at mid screen, he has strong counter combos, and he can set you into a screen-carrying combo series off the simpliest normal crouch attacks.

He seems like a character where EX moves should serve the purpose of multiple-moves in old games. Given the new systems, he's just NOT the same character he was before, and has to be looked at in a different way.
Title: Re: Billy Kane
Post by: bigvador on September 06, 2011, 10:20:35 PM
i do see what you guys r talkin about my hole thing is the more a character has the more aware you are to to who ur fightin of course he dont need his counters mostly because with the way XIII is its alot more offensive then defensive
Title: Re: Billy Kane
Post by: Kane317 on September 06, 2011, 10:45:19 PM
I see A LOT of Chin's Ex counter.  I think you can find me using it on average, at least once per round.
It's also on The Answer #1 complaint list on how good it is.

Good to the point where SNKP decided to the nerf the active frames and damage delt.
Title: Re: Billy Kane
Post by: SAB-CA on September 06, 2011, 11:05:32 PM
Good to the point where SNKP decided to the nerf the active frames and damage delt.

Yeah, lucky you for getting to use the "broken-tier" version of the move, lol.

I kept using it with the timing I'd seen for months in vids, while at Otakon, and was suprised at how precise I had to be.

How much was the damage nerfed, btw? Was that mentioned before? I always liked the "Mini DM" aspect of it, never thought that was too much to ask for, since they use the same amount of meter...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: bigvador on September 07, 2011, 01:55:45 AM
I'll add for Vice just trade hits with anything (j.A, j.CD, s.A) and Ex hcf+K into follow ups.  Ralf use his qcb+P Ralf Bomb.   Hwa Jai has his Dragon Tail (qcb+K) and dp+K.
I really wouldnt say the ralf bomb to much only because of the active frames it dont really last long but the did lower the number of start up compared to XII
Title: Re: Billy Kane
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 07, 2011, 02:03:42 AM
Just a quick thought on counters, I believe that counters actually help the offensive game as you don't have to go into block animation and yes event thou it looks like you are defending you are actually hitting your opponent. Strong players use counters as part of their offense.

Good example you'll see a lot of Mexican players using Billy's d.C, qcb.b when they are attacking their opponents and looking for Guard Crush. The opponent thinks you are going to do f.b after the d.C and they try to CD counter you to get out of it, if the attacking opponent reads it right they do the d.C into counter and the defendign opponent get hit.

I really think Billy should have his counters in XIII, I know Kane feels the same way.

just a thought.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SwitchPlaya on September 07, 2011, 02:17:06 AM
Hey i was wondering im changing up my team and i am wondering of a team of Duo Kim and Shen who sould go first and second and how much meter does Kim generate for himself and the team also how do you guys deal with zoning characters such as King and Athena's Projectiles?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: THE ANSWER on September 07, 2011, 02:25:16 AM
Really quick before I go home,

I would advise using Duo Lon first since his balanced enough to go first and builds meter fast, his got really good mixup which can cause damage without meter at all. It needed his keepaway game is good as he can teleport and spam f.A and f.B.

Kim should go second in this team as his defense is not as strong as Duolon and might need meter to get out of some setups. He can do some damage without meter but his really damaging combos use at least one meter or one drive.

Shen should go third because his cheap, over powered and has braindead HD combos which can easily be performed if find yourself with a full Drive and just a little meter :P

Also, welcome to DreamCancel when you have a chance introduce yourself in the meet and greet section.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: bigvador on September 07, 2011, 05:16:40 AM
i agree with what he say but you can always switch dou lon and kim only because there really good point characters well dou lon is more then kim as 4 zoning characters just about everybody with a projectile is good because they all have a DP 2 back it up
Title: Re: Billy Kane
Post by: Kane317 on September 07, 2011, 05:32:18 AM
Good to the point where SNKP decided to the nerf the active frames and damage delt.

Yeah, lucky you for getting to use the "broken-tier" version of the move, lol.

I kept using it with the timing I'd seen for months in vids, while at Otakon, and was suprised at how precise I had to be.

How much was the damage nerfed, btw? Was that mentioned before? I always liked the "Mini DM" aspect of it, never thought that was too much to ask for, since they use the same amount of meter...

Well the exact number was never mentioned, but I know the arcade version does 260 damage with all 4 hits combined, at Evo, it looked closer to 200dmg. 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Nocturnus on September 08, 2011, 11:20:10 PM
I've got a few question regarding some changes in the console version. I've read some of the nerfs about K' such as his dp.C not connecting unless from an ex.minute spike. My question is, would dp.C connect if the combo starts off with ex.eins trigger, that is:
qcf+ ac f.d, qcb b/d (qcb+k whiff) into dp.c
Not sure if it makes any difference.

Also - Can he connect m.spikes after an ex. eins trigger > shoot (considering it hits twice, juggles higher)
- Is it still possible to connect his chain drive dm/sdm after f.a like after second shell juggle?
- Can he connect after a second shell juggle with a second shoot into chain drive dm (corner).
- Is it still possible to catch opponent in a shell juggle, go in HD, j.c or d on the opponent in air, qcb+bd (air), dp.a into his HD loop?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 09, 2011, 01:21:39 AM
Kim should go second in this team as his defense is not as strong as Duolon and might need meter to get out of some setups. He can do some damage without meter but his really damaging combos use at least one meter or one drive.

I'm going to politely disagree.  Kim has better defense than Duo Lon, his Hienzan (c.d~u+K) is a great reversal and combo starter whereas Duo Lon doesn't have any reveral options other (outside of his NeoMax) other than pokes and a teleport that can be punished.

I say that either Kim or Duo Lon first would be a good choice.  Shen should be last as he's very solid with or without meter and it's not because he should not be placed as first; rather the other two characters play better as first and second themselves.  I also dunno about The Answer's opinions about Shen... ;)

---

I've got a few question regarding some changes in the console version. I've read some of the nerfs about K' such as his dp.C not connecting unless from an ex.minute spike. My question is, would dp.C connect if the combo starts off with ex.eins trigger, that is:
qcf+ ac, qcb b/d (qcb+k whiff) into dp.c
Not sure if it makes any difference.

Also - Can he connect m.spikes after an ex. eins trigger > shoot (considering it hits twice, juggles higher)
- Is it still possible to connect his chain drive dm/sdm after f.a like after second shell juggle?
- Can he connect after a second shell juggle with a second shoot into chain drive dm (corner).
- Is it still possible to catch opponent in a shell juggle, go in HD, j.c or d on the opponent in air, qcb+bd (air), dp.a into his HD loop?

I'm not one to ask but unless they played K' extensively at one of the demo events, I'm sure those questions can be answered when the game comes out as they're very situational.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: SwitchPlaya on September 09, 2011, 02:40:39 PM
Thanks Kane317 and The answer i am gonna do the order Duo Kim and Shen because if Duo does build nice meter then that can be left for Kim who is stronger than Duo and may need meter for better damaging combos and in certain situations and Shen F***s s**t up my concern is still about projectile characters is there a universal rule in how to deal with them or are there characters that have a harder time dealing with them?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Nocturnus on September 09, 2011, 05:40:33 PM
Cheers Kane, I was afraid it was going to be hard to know any of those right now. I think I remember watching Frionel trying all the characters/combos in the console version at gamescom. Now only if I can find the particular video. Last time I checked they were all 7 hours long. =<
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 09, 2011, 09:36:24 PM
Cheers Kane, I was afraid it was going to be hard to know any of those right now. I think I remember watching Frionel trying all the characters/combos in the console version at gamescom. Now only if I can find the particular video. Last time I checked they were all 7 hours long. =<

There's a shorter one, only 3.5 hours ;) Check it out here (http://dreamcancel.com/2011/09/08/kofxiii-gamescom-report-from-frionel/).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Nocturnus on September 09, 2011, 09:55:26 PM
Beat you to that! xD I was looking around and found that today just finished that a while back. But thanks a lot mate. :)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on September 13, 2011, 11:02:31 AM
ehi guys
very simple question : can u activate HD by keeping crouch position ( like for example c.C HD c.C ) without goin neutral after the first c.C ?
i guess yes right ?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mr.KOF on September 13, 2011, 11:40:38 AM
ehi guys
very simple question : can u activate HD by keeping crouch position ( like for example c.C HD c.C ) without goin neutral after the first c.C ?
i guess yes right ?

Yes.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on September 14, 2011, 05:28:18 AM
I'm still considering what team I want to make, and without any hands on experience I can't truly know what I'd want to do, however, the team I'm looking at right now is Shen/King/Hwa for Console.  Hwa seems to bleed meter so he'll definitely be the anchor (even more so in Console now that Dragon Backbreaker actually has good utility now), so the question is who should be out front, King or Shen?

I'm still a little green with KoFXIII (and KoF in general) but I'm...steering towards King on point then Shen second.  Shen losing his 100% Guard Break on his Charge Punch might not make him as good without meter (I doubt that's the case, I'm a bit ignorant, but it's a guess), and King doesn't seem to burn meter at all outside of HD combo finishers.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on September 17, 2011, 04:46:40 AM
I'm still considering what team I want to make, and without any hands on experience I can't truly know what I'd want to do, however, the team I'm looking at right now is Shen/King/Hwa for Console.  Hwa seems to bleed meter so he'll definitely be the anchor (even more so in Console now that Dragon Backbreaker actually has good utility now), so the question is who should be out front, King or Shen?

I'm still a little green with KoFXIII (and KoF in general) but I'm...steering towards King on point then Shen second.  Shen losing his 100% Guard Break on his Charge Punch might not make him as good without meter (I doubt that's the case, I'm a bit ignorant, but it's a guess), and King doesn't seem to burn meter at all outside of HD combo finishers.

Between King or Shen being Point, I would go with Shen still because despite him lacking a good anti-air his 1-frame command throw is too good to pass up for defensive purposes.  King's Ex Trap Shot (Ex DP+K) is real good too, but without it her defensive options are lacking.

---

You guys should go check out the front page article that PhoeniX wrote; it goes into lots of detail and deserves as much attention as possible.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: xZEPPELIx on September 18, 2011, 11:34:32 PM
I was thinking about using Ash/Saiki/Takuma or Maxima.  All i know is that it seems like Ash would be a good anchor.  Who would be better first Takuma or Saiki?  I know asking about Saiki isnt a great idea because no one has had a ton of time with the character.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: kofrookie on September 19, 2011, 09:36:23 PM
I have a question.  Are low kick to low punch links as hard to perform in 13 as they are in 2002?  For example with K' and Iori?  Or has the window to link been widened?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on September 19, 2011, 10:28:43 PM
I was thinking about using Ash/Saiki/Takuma or Maxima.  All i know is that it seems like Ash would be a good anchor.  Who would be better first Takuma or Saiki?  I know asking about Saiki isnt a great idea because no one has had a ton of time with the character.
You're right. I have no idea what kind of character Saiki's going to end up being in terms of meter. But I do think Takuma would work better as a second character. His scariest combos involve drive cancels, so giving him a head-start with his drive meter gives him a definite edge.





Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: meiji_99 on September 20, 2011, 04:36:47 AM
@kofrookie
as far as i know not as strict as 2002 timing to do that link :D.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Violent Geese on September 20, 2011, 06:57:41 AM
I have an interesting question, i hope you can answer me: wich one punish what? The one frame shen's grab or the andy's DP? That has some invencibility frames, if both are done at the same time?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on September 20, 2011, 08:06:54 AM
dp is aerial move so it will ALWAYS beat whatever kinda throw you throw up against it. yes, even dm and exdm's. this has always been like this in kof btw, i think in most 2d fighters actually if not all.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Gimnbo on September 22, 2011, 07:46:42 AM
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I searched this topic (and some wikis) and found nothing so I'm asking if there is any variation in the amount of life each character starts with. I know they have different guard gauge lengths but I'm left wondering about life.

EDIT: Just looked  at the SRK wiki, which says they all have the same health. Don't know how I didn't see that before. Derp.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on September 23, 2011, 01:25:28 AM
I for first time, played on training mode, and tried to do hyper drive mode

Overall, don't know why, but I still prefer the more manual style on 2002um,, but maybe I need to get used
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DJMirror949 on September 23, 2011, 09:48:25 AM
I'm not too sure if someone already ask this but do certain characters builds up certain meters more?
like for example Ash builds more of the drive meter than his super meter? I'm just wondering
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on September 27, 2011, 03:26:11 PM
ehi i was wondering if about mai's dm  ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;uf count as instant overhead and this shortcut works.
if so doing c.B c.B (crouch blocked) and the instant overhead would be great and a hard guess for the opponent
and this is more technical : ryueenbu canceled in instant air DM is considered a DC ?


 
Title: Moved from OT General thread: RE- lol, raiden is top tier without dk.
Post by: MUSOLINI on September 28, 2011, 04:18:00 AM
---

can kill in 3 combos without bars or corner. good dp and even better command throw, beast with bars and EX shoulder tackle is icing on the cake. without dk hes like 98 goro but better.
Title: Moved from OT General thread: RE- lol, raiden is top tier without dk.
Post by: Kane317 on September 28, 2011, 06:38:00 AM
can kill in 3 combos without bars or corner. good dp and even better command throw, beast with bars and EX shoulder tackle is icing on the cake. without dk hes like 98 goro but better.

There's actually a few characters that can do 300+ dmg, Kyo, Shen, K', Liz, Maxima and Vice come to the top of my head.  I guess he'd still be near the top, but I dunno about top 6.  Damage (Maxima) and 1-frame throws (Benimaru) don't necessarily make them top tier.  Liz, Kula, Kyo, K' and Andy are still higher if you remove his dropkicks.
Title: Moved from OT General thread: RE- lol, raiden is top tier without dk.
Post by: MUSOLINI on September 28, 2011, 02:46:51 PM
can kill in 3 combos without bars or corner. good dp and even better command throw, beast with bars and EX shoulder tackle is icing on the cake. without dk hes like 98 goro but better.

There's actually a few characters that can do 300+ dmg, Kyo, Shen, K', Liz, Maxima and Vice come to the top of my head.  I guess he'd still be near the top, but I dunno about top 6.  Damage and 1-frame throws don't necessarily make them top tier (Shen).  Liz, Kula, Kyo, K' and Andy are still higher if you remove his dropkicks.

nah man i bvelieve that withoutdk hes higher than andy and kyo, hes as high as lizzy, kula and k imo without dk. with it hes as high as arcade xiii k. the difference between these others and raiden is that raiden will do 30%+ damage every chance he gets from whatever distance and whatever light attack or whatsoever he hits. hes got great keep away tools, great, huge damage, great specials,huge range on command throw, huge damage off of it.dude makes zangief seem like bitch and sf4 sagat seem like some pussy. thats all without imo. in fact weve seen vids of top raidens without dk,weve seen him rape even harder because thoseplayers fully utilized his other tools because they werent playing like bitches with those dk's.
Title: Moved from OT General thread: RE- lol, raiden is top tier without dk.
Post by: Kane317 on September 29, 2011, 12:01:56 AM
can kill in 3 combos without bars or corner. good dp and even better command throw, beast with bars and EX shoulder tackle is icing on the cake. without dk hes like 98 goro but better.

There's actually a few characters that can do 300+ dmg, Kyo, Shen, K', Liz, Maxima and Vice come to the top of my head.  I guess he'd still be near the top, but I dunno about top 6.  Damage and 1-frame throws don't necessarily make them top tier (Shen).  Liz, Kula, Kyo, K' and Andy are still higher if you remove his dropkicks.

nah man i bvelieve that withoutdk hes higher than andy and kyo, hes as high as lizzy, kula and k imo without dk. with it hes as high as arcade xiii k. the difference between these others and raiden is that raiden will do 30%+ damage every chance he gets from whatever distance and whatever light attack or whatsoever he hits. hes got great keep away tools, great, huge damage, great specials,huge range on command throw, huge damage off of it.dude makes zangief seem like bitch and sf4 sagat seem like some pussy. thats all without imo. in fact weve seen vids of top raidens without dk,weve seen him rape even harder because thoseplayers fully utilized his other tools because they werent playing like bitches with those dk's.

Raiden cannot do 30%+ damage in most situations, without dropkicks, without meter, outside of the corner (I looked up his damage and I can post them if you want me to).  You must be confusing him with Liz.

The other characters I mentioned can.  

Now if you're talking about adding drive, meter, corner situation then that's a whole different ball park (but that applies to the same list of players I mentioned.  We're talking about without dropkicks as well.

He's up there, but I'd still put him around Shen and Iori's bracket.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on September 30, 2011, 08:12:15 AM
ehi i was wondering if about mai's dm  ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;uf count as instant overhead and this shortcut works.
if so doing c.B c.B (crouch blocked) and the instant overhead would be great and a hard guess for the opponent
and this is more technical : ryueenbu canceled in instant air DM is considered a DC ?
I don't think her air DM is an overhead.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 9/9 1st page)
Post by: SAB-CA on October 01, 2011, 02:50:06 AM
Meh, anyway, how loose or tight are the Rekka inputs for Kensou and Duo Lon?

In my limited XIII Experience + KoF XII knowledge, I'd say Kensou's are pretty easy, Duo's I felt like... I should actually slow down on?

Both should be pretty easy to get used to, given very little practice.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: omegaryuji on October 01, 2011, 06:21:50 AM
Yeah, Duo's rekkas take a little getting used to.  The only advice I can give is that the inputs are slower than it looks like they should be (which sounds really dumb, I know, but seriously, once you get the hang of them, you'll understand).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on October 01, 2011, 06:27:36 AM
Duo Lon's rekkas are a pain.  Anyone who's played or seen me play know I joke about "advance resets" to mask my inability to get it down consistently.  Now the strange thing is, I don't have a problem with any of the rekkas of the past, like Iori's Deadly Flowers or any rekkas for that matter.  It's just Duo Lon's.

What's helped me now is to really slow down the inputs; it's true that you can do them much slower than it looks.  The cancel window between the first and second hit is much tighter compared to the second and third rekkas which is pretty lenient.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on October 01, 2011, 07:36:36 AM
Ugh...maybe I should stick to Kensou...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on October 03, 2011, 08:57:18 AM
Apologies if anyone has posted this before, but did folks know that it's possible to use  ;uf on qc or hc motions after  ;fd so you don't end up taking a harsh punish on a blocked dp?

This is great for some guys I use.

Ex. Joe Higashi
 ;st ;a ;fd ;b ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;uf ;b
yields Slash Kick instead of ending up with Tiger Knee doing
 ;st ;a ;fd ;b ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b

Really good for any chr with these motions and a cmd normal who don't want to be ten feet in the air for a cracking punish. This is also useful if you are dashing and want to do an fb immediately at the end of your dash.

-This is sourced from the Japanese KOF XIII guide. Yeah mine is starting to show it's age with the amount of reading it has had to endure  ;)

(again, sorry if this has been posted, did a search on ';uf' on the site and nothing came up, so hope this helps!)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on October 03, 2011, 09:42:54 AM
It's mentioned briefly on the first page, first post, of this thread for Shen.  I know it's mentioned elsewhere as well.  Same for Kyo's overlap with rdp+K and hcb+K (Athena dash command grab etc), the ub/uf technique works well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Aenthin on October 03, 2011, 10:02:03 AM
Still can't do the trick though. Everytime I tried adding ub/uf to any buffered special move, I always end up super jumping and whiffing an aerial move. Rofl. Guess my timing's still off.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on October 03, 2011, 12:22:59 PM
Still can't do the trick though. Everytime I tried adding ub/uf to any buffered special move, I always end up super jumping and whiffing an aerial move. Rofl. Guess my timing's still off.

Hey Aenthin, if you jumping it means you are pressing the button too late. If you try doing  ;uf and the button at the same time, you'll probably be able to pull it off consistently.

@Kane317, good call on mentioning  ;ub as well. Nice to see developers who care enough to make combos more accessible.
Title: NeoMax discussion: Moved from OT thread
Post by: bzerk on October 05, 2011, 08:00:37 PM
I've been just wondering and would like you guys opinion on the console changes, specifically NEOmax's costing only 2 power bars in HD mode. For those that have been playing XIII for a long time now do you guys think that This will eventually eliminate the usage of EXdm's? I mean Full HD bars  come pretty often during a match and i Really wouldnt be able to see any reason NOT to combo into HD into Neomax for only 2 stocks.  

am I right in thinking we will see a lot less EXdm's or am i just worrying for nothing?
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 10/4 1st page)
Post by: Rex Dart on October 05, 2011, 08:19:54 PM
I've been just wondering and would like you guys opinion on the console changes, specifically NEOmax's costing only 2 power bars in HD mode. For those that have been playing XIII for a long time now do you guys think that This will eventually eliminate the usage of EXdm's? I mean Full HD bars  come pretty often during a match and i Really wouldnt be able to see any reason NOT to combo into HD into Neomax for only 2 stocks. 

am I right in thinking we will see a lot less EXdm's or am i just worrying for nothing?

I think the change is for the better. Currently, NeoMaxes are hardly ever used. This makes them far more practical, and considering how much crowd appeal they have, having them appear more often might increase the game's appeal.

Also, I disgree about full HD bars coming up pretty often. Unless players just don't like doing (or can't do) HD combos, no one's going to want to throw away a potential 40% combo. I think both moves are balanced against each other pretty well.

EXDMs: less powerful, don't need to be in HD to do them
NM: more powerful, need to be in HD AND takes up your entire bar
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 10/4 1st page)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on October 05, 2011, 08:34:29 PM
I've been just wondering and would like you guys opinion on the console changes, specifically NEOmax's costing only 2 power bars in HD mode. For those that have been playing XIII for a long time now do you guys think that This will eventually eliminate the usage of EXdm's? I mean Full HD bars  come pretty often during a match and i Really wouldnt be able to see any reason NOT to combo into HD into Neomax for only 2 stocks.  

am I right in thinking we will see a lot less EXdm's or am i just worrying for nothing?

All I can really get out of it is that you might see HD combos in the first character if they're low on health and backed into a corner. It also means first characters can Max Cancel which was usually reserved for the last person in the team for the EXDM [MC] potential. Generally, it's not as huge a waste and gives the nerfs to damage a little more reason considering they want you to use the Neomax.

You'll still probably get as much damage as a Neomax if you use EXDM [SC] in a combo. Keep in mind, you can't special cancel into a Neomax outside of HD mode which means you have to have it all and land HD mode or it's a waste. You'll almost always deal more damage than trying to regularly combo a neomax.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 10/4 1st page)
Post by: Dandy J on October 06, 2011, 12:07:58 AM
for some characters i think its ok, but overall im not sure if i like the change. it does help out a ton of non-top tier chars, but at the same time a lot of already strong characters like kyo andy shen will make use of it and they dont need a damage boost
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 10/4 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on October 06, 2011, 12:14:24 AM
I think it's an overall good decision.  Hell, with the way things were in Arcade, NeoMaxes might as well not have existed and nothing would have changed, and I hate when most mechanics go to waste (unless they're inherently flawed or stupid in the first place).

Plus I think it will help sell the game to a broader audience, since most of them look damn great.  However, the question is, what characters benefit the most?  I mean, obviously the characters that can already tack on a EX DM on the end of HD Combos who can also do a NM will benefit enough as they'll get a bit more damage now, but who else?
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 10/4 1st page)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on October 06, 2011, 12:56:33 AM
Maxima benefits a lot from it. He can do Ex Vapor cannon [HDC], EX Double Vapor Cannon, [MC] Maxima Laser for a crap ton of damage. He gets a damage nerf, but that's gonna be the business right there and it's SO easy.

Vice will have a reason to use her Neomax since she can use one EX Deicide to activate her combo and go into her EX DM or just go into Neomax after a strong Deicide and Strong Mayhem chain.

Mhhh, other people I've not seen use their Neomaxes. Most likely since Terry gets his Neomax fixed, he'll use it more. I know I will. That's a lot of nuke damage right there.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 10/4 1st page)
Post by: SAB-CA on October 06, 2011, 01:17:47 AM
I think it's an overall good decision.  Hell, with the way things were in Arcade, NeoMaxes might as well not have existed and nothing would have changed, and I hate when most mechanics go to waste (unless they're inherently flawed or stupid in the first place).

Agreed.

As a whole, I love the change. One thing to remember about Neomaxes, as well, is that they help the character gain a tool that's unlike their others, often. For examples, Duo gets a command Grab, Takuma gets a supreme Anti-Air, and Mai gets a blazing fast full-screen punish. Naked HD into Neomax might actually be worth it in many situations, once people are used to making it a new option in their gameplay. Before, in arcade, the HD bar was always saved as a sacrifice, and meters were blown instead. Now, you can blow HD and land a strong EXDM-style move (the NM), to save on meter burn, yet still do strong, 1-move damage. So now rather than burning the 3 meters you got from round 1, leaving you without your EX Reversal, but full HD, you can choose to Burn 2 meters and the HD bar, and still have that 1 meter to save for that game-changing EX move.

I think it'll have a nice effect on mid-game strategies. It might even change some team viability, if people really get into it. Imagine someone going HD and using their fully-invincible Neomax, VS a "not 100%" blockstring, like Maxima's cancels into Vapor Cannon? That's an option that never would have existed with 2 meters + an HD bar before.

I also think it'll lower the use of certain long combos, and make people more efficient. Rather than watching a 50 hit combo with loads of places to mess up and fail, you can now see 20 hits, then a NM.

Things like Joe Higashi being able to possible full screen punish fireballs with an EX DM -> NM now, with 4 DM bars and full drive, could make the game even more interesting, and open up new strats.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 4th |OT| Thread:Console countdown edition (UPDATE 10/4 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on October 06, 2011, 01:25:10 AM
I think Benimaru can become more dangerous if you think about it.

I mean, I already saw a Beni pull victory from the jaws of defeat by going EX Benimaru Lancer on a full screen King, right into Neomax to win.  Now, you should be able to just go into HD mode after EX Lancer and get the same result for less meter and it should be a bit more lenient (as his NM is faster) so in essence, he technically has a full screen confirm into NM if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on October 06, 2011, 02:52:44 AM
I've been just wondering and would like you guys opinion on the console changes, specifically NEOmax's costing only 2 power bars in HD mode. For those that have been playing XIII for a long time now do you guys think that This will eventually eliminate the usage of EXdm's? I mean Full HD bars  come pretty often during a match and i Really wouldnt be able to see any reason NOT to combo into HD into Neomax for only 2 stocks.  

am I right in thinking we will see a lot less EXdm's or am i just worrying for nothing?

Initially I was wary when I heard about the change.  Then hearing how Yamamoto-san expressed how he wanted to see more high damaging combos, changes to the way players now gain meter on the defensive end, and on top of what we mentioned earlier, nobody ever used NM--it actually makes a lots of sense.

It was mentioned before, but CMD.Duc pointed out that the difference in damage isn't that much if you factor that NM has to be still done in HD (for it to be 2 stocks of course) where as you could do a couple more "loops", finish HD, juggle some more, then do an Ex DM which is roughly the same damage for most characters.

Take Iori for example:

j.D, s.C, df.C, [HD], s.C, df.C, dp+A, [HDC] (qcb B, [HDC] dp+C)x 4, qcb B, NM

vs

j.D, s.C, df.C, [HD], s.C, df.C, dp+A, [HDC] (qcb B, [HDC] dp+C)x 5, qcb B, qcb A, Ex DM

It's very similiar in damage.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: marchefelix on October 06, 2011, 03:46:59 AM
I have always thought that people did not use NMs outside of MaxCancels because they are afraid to take risks. Indeed, the losses of missing one is huge, but people should still be willing to take risks. It could win you the match for all you know, and if it doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean you will lose.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on October 06, 2011, 04:20:53 AM
The thing is though is that how many characters really have a workable NM that can really do something outside of HD mode?  There's not a ton.  On top of that, the risk/reward is not that great.  Losing all your HD gauge and then 3 Bars of Super Gauge for essentially a guess outside of HD mode.  If you hit, yeah, you get great damage, but whiff and you're a sitting duck.  Outside of utilities and punishes, it's not that great of an option outside of HD mode.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: bigvador on October 06, 2011, 04:53:02 AM
i really wish they had the option to change the game play from XIII to XII i like the counter and clash system (rather clash then trade hits) but being able to combo into CD wasnt all that good but it did give a new way to do combos so it wasnt all that bad
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on October 06, 2011, 06:20:02 AM
i really wish they had the option to change the game play from XIII to XII i like the counter and clash system (rather clash then trade hits) but being able to combo into CD wasnt all that good but it did give a new way to do combos so it wasnt all that bad

No offense, but why in the world would they have that option?  How many games DO have that option to just decide to be an earlier game, let alone non-Anniversary games?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: bigvador on October 06, 2011, 10:22:14 AM
got me i just threw that out there but when it comes to to fighting games the alway take somthin out and put somthin in so i would wish that it can b a option to pick there r a few characters i would have love 2 c using XIIs fighting system
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on October 08, 2011, 03:28:27 PM
The thing is though is that how many characters really have a workable NM that can really do something outside of HD mode?  There's not a ton.  On top of that, the risk/reward is not that great.  Losing all your HD gauge and then 3 Bars of Super Gauge for essentially a guess outside of HD mode.  If you hit, yeah, you get great damage, but whiff and you're a sitting duck.  Outside of utilities and punishes, it's not that great of an option outside of HD mode.

I agree with everything here. It would have to be for finishing a character off (not just for damage) in a utility type situation as you should be using HD for most punishes and any combos (much of the time in the last round).

Ex.
Kyo's vs a fb
Ryo's/Iori's against a jump-in
Duo-Lon's/Ash's to break down guard
Joe's to go for hell chipping
(I personally would not risk doing a Goro or Elizabeth NM as a stand-alone)

Yeah, you pretty much said it all.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on October 08, 2011, 09:24:17 PM
Duo-Lon's/Ash's/Clark's to break down guard

FYI Clark's NM isn't a command throw and hence, it's blockable.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on October 09, 2011, 05:25:12 PM
Duo-Lon's/Ash's/Clark's to break down guard

FYI Clark's NM isn't a command throw and hence, it's blockable.

That's right... (edited out of post)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on October 11, 2011, 03:52:28 PM
Do we have a complete list of mid-air moves that characters can do while back-dashing like Maxima's air vapor cannon?

I heard XIII is a bit more limited in this respect compared to other KOFs.

Actually, what air moves cannot be done during a back-dash?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Violent Kain on October 16, 2011, 07:39:57 PM
Hi

Does anyone know how to do the running and activate HD with one move?

I've seen that this is possible and there is a combo video that shows this.

KOF XIII combo Kyo (5PHD) [5 Orochinagi]_v6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b65Qehu4P48#ws)

Thanks for any help! :D
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 15, 2011, 12:06:21 AM
The thing is though is that how many characters really have a workable NM that can really do something outside of HD mode?  There's not a ton.  On top of that, the risk/reward is not that great.  Losing all your HD gauge and then 3 Bars of Super Gauge for essentially a guess outside of HD mode.  If you hit, yeah, you get great damage, but whiff and you're a sitting duck.  Outside of utilities and punishes, it's not that great of an option outside of HD mode.
I get the impression alot of NM's are decent outside of HD mode. They have very fast start up with the screen pause too, alot of them are good anti-airs.

Benimaru's pre console version was killer and made you very afraid to throw projectiles when he had 3 stocks. Kyo's is great. Alot of NM's can perform as projectile killers and basic anti-airs if you don't use them to end combos. If you're at the end of the screen for most of them or at a decent distance they're pretty safe, so little risk damage wise.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 15, 2011, 12:09:35 AM
Hi

Does anyone know how to do the running and activate HD with one move?
It looks like there is a frame showing he is doing a move and then activates into HD mode. Some macro business. That's all I can think of.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 15, 2011, 12:13:35 AM
I think he might have used a bug that allows you to HD activate during a move. I think he might have ran up and did rdp+BC to start the combo.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: marchefelix on November 15, 2011, 12:23:41 AM
Isn't that "running" his hcb +  ;k?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on November 15, 2011, 12:48:25 PM
Whiff s.A HD cancel into rdp.K I guess
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: davidkong07 on November 15, 2011, 02:06:06 PM
hey guys, i have some technical questions about wakeups in KoF13.

in this game, there are obviously no "reversals" as in SF4, where a properly timed wake up move gets special properties. however, i was wondering about doing wakeup uppercuts on the first possible frame. i have experimented with mashing uppercut in training mode, and it seems that it is never instantaneous, that there are a couple frames where i simply stand and can get hit before the uppercut comes out. why does this happen? is it possible to do special moves on the first frame of wakeup, or does the engine make you wait a couple frames? i know that, for example, there are a few frames which take place before you can be thrown on wakeup. is there something similar for special moves?


i'm wondering because, if this is the case, the implication would be that a properly timed meaty attack on an untechable wakeup should always beat out mashed uppercut, right?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on November 15, 2011, 04:50:12 PM
fuck no, 1 frame EX supers, command and super grabs, EX dp's, superfast dp's with tons of invincible frames. depending on the character your facing this could be the most retarded thing you could. a meaty would be fine on lets sayking without any super bars.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 15, 2011, 04:58:15 PM
Yeah, reversals exist in almost all if not all FGs with special moves and waking up.

SF4 just gave a special property to theirs that just tied into a unique aspect of the SF4 series itself.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on November 15, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
sf4 gameplay system is pretty much fucking retarded. they went soo noobish on the system that they made it a boring shit fighter where sf2 tactics that where bs and old school worked again, and made easier. i understand noobs liking it, what i never understood is why the pros got into super noob fighter 4 turtle edition unless your using 1 of the 4 or 5 non turtle characters. it's a very decent but shitty fighter, especially on higher level.

just some of the problems, shitty match ups, the fact that FA can absorb an attack, the whole ultra system, the turtle like slow ass gamespeed, the fact that most of the game revolves around wait and see, how easy it is to tech throws, i could go on basically.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Siren on November 15, 2011, 06:04:43 PM
a wakeup dp has enough priority in that game to ignore parry supers like cammy's cqc. I don't think any game loves dp's more than sf4. and the reason so many people got into to it is because it's street fighter, there's ryu and capcom on the label. As shitty as the games gonna be, sfxt is going to be popular because it's from crapcom and has ryu. People just play shitty capcom games, it's sad but true.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 15, 2011, 06:29:06 PM
Seriously, we gonna fill up the thread with this shit again?  We have a place for that crap in the Social Club.

Only reason I even BROUGHT UP SF4 was because he was wondering about the reversal system in comparison.  That wasn't an invitation to drop the usual shit on Capcom.  That attitude is WHY Capcom does so well.  You do more shittalking on them then you do praising the games you actually light, which keeps the spotlight on their games.  Wanna make sure they go down?  STOP TALKING ABOUT THEM.

Anyway, on topic, yes reversals exist, don't try to meaty when the opponent has meter or you die.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: omegaryuji on November 15, 2011, 06:54:40 PM
i'm wondering because, if this is the case, the implication would be that a properly timed meaty attack on an untechable wakeup should always beat out mashed uppercut, right?
XIII has wakeup reversals, just like every KOF.  It's just a really tight window to input it correctly (possibly...this tutorial by PhoeniX (http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/09/the-king-of-details-3-buffering-tricks-and-motion-shortcuts/) does into more detail about reversals in KOF).  Whether a properly timed meaty will beat out a wakeup reversal depends on the reversal's properties, namely does it have enough invincibility through the entire startup and into at least 1 active frame to dodge the meaty (or does it have instant autoguard to absorb the meaty hit immediately) and does it have a hitbox that will work effectively against the meaty (i.e. in past KOFs, it's common to use a cr.B meaty against Kyo since it lets many characters low profile under the knockdown hit of his dp+C so that Kyo is still punishable).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MaruchanSoup on November 15, 2011, 07:17:24 PM
As shitty as the games gonna be, sfxt is going to be popular because it's from crapcom and has ryu. People just play shitty capcom games, it's sad but true.

Wow, you and me have a lot more in common than just the avatar picture.

Anyway, on topic, yes reversals exist, don't try to meaty when the opponent has meter or you die.

What is a good thing to do when the opponent has meter and is waking up?
Should i attempt an ambigious roll crossup or even that is too risky?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 15, 2011, 07:35:47 PM
Depends on the opponent's character and positioning, depends on your character and positioning, a lot of things go into it.  Better to look at case by case examples rather than trying to generalize what to do on wakeup.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: omegaryuji on November 15, 2011, 07:40:21 PM
Should i attempt an ambigious roll crossup or even that is too risky?
Like Saitsuofleaves said, there's no general rule for what to do (you should be mixing up a few different things, in any case), but there is a general rule for what not to do: if your opponent has a 0-startup throw, don't be standing right next to them unless you want to eat it.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Siren on November 15, 2011, 07:46:02 PM
I wouldn't try it often, but I'm not sure if this game auto corrects notations, but an ambiguous roll crossup could probably throw throw them off and keep them honest and blocking(or they get hit). But you could always go for safe dp baits and punish if they actually dp. Just try out your options and see what works best. I'm sure someone else can come up with better advice than mine lol.

BTW kewl pic MaruchanSoup lol.


@SaitsuoFleaves
I wasn't planning on going on a rant there, but my bad. I actually hate when threads get off topic like that also myself.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 15, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
Ambiguous rolls are ok but ambiguous crossups are also and option. With Kensou you can do a crossup attempt and just spam down b's either way and see if they connect to hit confirm something from them.

Seriously, we gonna fill up the thread with this shit again?  We have a place for that crap in the Social Club.

Only reason I even BROUGHT UP SF4 was because he was wondering about the reversal system in comparison.  That wasn't an invitation to drop the usual shit on Capcom.  That attitude is WHY Capcom does so well.  You do more shittalking on them then you do praising the games you actually light, which keeps the spotlight on their games.  Wanna make sure they go down?  STOP TALKING ABOUT THEM.

pretty much, I have a zero tolerance on anything Capcom, except the usual peek at what the latest fad talk the UMVC3 crazies are going nuts about elsewhere. I guess I shouldn't be one to talk but I view the umvc3 stuff because the ppl are just so brainwashed it's funny.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 15, 2011, 10:44:09 PM
Then keep that shit to yourself or take it somewhere else.  I don't give a shit WHAT your tolerance is, if you honestly care about THIS game, then you should know better.  You don't think I have a problem with Capcom at times?  You don't think I like bashing on some of their products?  Of course I do, but there's a time and a place for it.  When a thread for another game is filled with more talk about Capcom than the actual game, then you're only helping them.

As for the topic, roll crossups work somewhat but I would use that sparingly.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: darkTown2 on November 15, 2011, 10:58:31 PM
Ambiguous rolls are ok but ambiguous crossups are also and option. With Kensou you can do a crossup attempt and just spam down b's either way and see if they connect to hit confirm something from them.

Seriously, we gonna fill up the thread with this shit again?  We have a place for that crap in the Social Club.

Only reason I even BROUGHT UP SF4 was because he was wondering about the reversal system in comparison.  That wasn't an invitation to drop the usual shit on Capcom.  That attitude is WHY Capcom does so well.  You do more shittalking on them then you do praising the games you actually light, which keeps the spotlight on their games.  Wanna make sure they go down?  STOP TALKING ABOUT THEM.

pretty much, I have a zero tolerance on anything Capcom, except the usual peek at what the latest fad talk the UMVC3 crazies are going nuts about elsewhere. I guess I shouldn't be one to talk but I view the umvc3 stuff because the ppl are just so brainwashed it's funny.

i don't understand how a person can judge someone else's game just because it isn't their game of choice... why can't you just look at something that isn't your favorite, see it for what it is and move on? that attitude would make the fighting game community a much better place.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 15, 2011, 11:05:10 PM
Yeah, I mean, personally, there's a decent amount of games I don't like, but I at least respect the people that play them and let them do what they want to do.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: desmond_kof on November 15, 2011, 11:16:06 PM
Then keep that shit to yourself or take it somewhere else.  I don't give a shit WHAT your tolerance is, if you honestly care about THIS game, then you should know better.  You don't think I have a problem with Capcom at times?  You don't think I like bashing on some of their products?  Of course I do, but there's a time and a place for it.  When a thread for another game is filled with more talk about Capcom than the actual game, then you're only helping them.

I agree with you but, please chill, dude.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: nightmoves on November 15, 2011, 11:18:17 PM
hey guys, i have some technical questions about wakeups in KoF13.

in this game, there are obviously no "reversals" as in SF4, where a properly timed wake up move gets special properties. however, i was wondering about doing wakeup uppercuts on the first possible frame. i have experimented with mashing uppercut in training mode, and it seems that it is never instantaneous, that there are a couple frames where i simply stand and can get hit before the uppercut comes out. why does this happen? is it possible to do special moves on the first frame of wakeup, or does the engine make you wait a couple frames? i know that, for example, there are a few frames which take place before you can be thrown on wakeup. is there something similar for special moves?


i'm wondering because, if this is the case, the implication would be that a properly timed meaty attack on an untechable wakeup should always beat out mashed uppercut, right?


It seems that way. If I remember correctly that was never possible in XI or XII either. I usually assume that doing wakeups like that was impossible, but you do have me thinking about it. I'll try it out myself just to see.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 15, 2011, 11:30:01 PM
Then keep that shit to yourself or take it somewhere else.  I don't give a shit WHAT your tolerance is, if you honestly care about THIS game, then you should know better.  You don't think I have a problem with Capcom at times?  You don't think I like bashing on some of their products?  Of course I do, but there's a time and a place for it.  When a thread for another game is filled with more talk about Capcom than the actual game, then you're only helping them.

I agree with you but, please chill, dude.

Uh...I already did.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: davidkong07 on November 16, 2011, 01:46:08 AM
thanks for the answers guys. now, i guess the main issue i'm still wondering about is this: what happens if the person who has been knocked down is mashing DP? will it come out on the first possible frame?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 16, 2011, 02:40:24 AM
thanks for the answers guys. now, i guess the main issue i'm still wondering about is this: what happens if the person who has been knocked down is mashing DP? will it come out on the first possible frame?
Don't see why not. It should given that the inputs are much more lenient in kof13. That's usually not a good idea at an event if your opponent can see/hear your motions though. . . although you can always try and bait them out using that. Some ppl actually tap buttons to make noise randomly.

Oh and Saitsuofleaves, please go full retard again it's quite funny - I ignore Capcom games and browse the UMVC3 once in a while. u mad?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: darkTown2 on November 16, 2011, 03:14:54 AM

Oh and Saitsuofleaves, please go full retard again it's quite funny - I ignore Capcom games and browse the UMVC3 once in a while. u mad?

he has a very good reason to be a little frustrated ( although i doubt he is ) you just said right there that you ignore capcom games. if you ignore them why are you commenting about them? that is the opposite of ignore, and the thing is you said people who play the games are brainwashed ( he happens to enjoy the game, there should be no problem with that) which doesn't help the FGC/ kof community in any way. that way of thinking drives players away. and now that you say you don't even play capcom games that means you can't even tell whether they are good games or not.

you should really learn to accept other peoples forte in games because you seem like the kind of person who thinks their game is the best and no other game is acceptable.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 16, 2011, 03:50:26 AM
you should really learn to accept other peoples forte in games because you seem like the kind of person who thinks their game is the best and no other game is acceptable.

Nice try at painting me as the bad guy, I said I don't play Capcom games but like to read up on UMVC3.

Hope this explanation clears things up: The comment is about the "MARHHVEL BABY" thing many fans have which is unlike any other mad hype gaming fans have. I actually enjoy that the game is getting so much hype and seeing how the fans go on because they're just insane. Didn't know he was a Marvel fan though, so I can understand if he took it personally. On with the show. . .
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: milesw on November 16, 2011, 03:57:40 AM
lol
Dont worry Giga. XIII just down the horizon, and then we wont have to think about those games we dont enjoy.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 16, 2011, 03:58:02 AM
Sooo, just to keep the ball rolling. Does DP on the first frame seem like a good idea now?

I mean, if you know someone is on a hair trigger, waiting to punish you, why not use the new "Backdash out of jail free" card that was added into console. Specifically, I'm talking about back dashing being a one frame action. From what we know, waking up gives you grab invincibility and most normals are around 3-5 frames of start-up if they're not Maxima ><. If that's the case, if someone tries to poke you out of DPs (Since a lot of them lost or never had lower invincibility on start-up), why not just backdash instead?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 16, 2011, 04:06:55 AM
Sooo, just to keep the ball rolling. Does DP on the first frame seem like a good idea now?

I mean, if you know someone is on a hair trigger, waiting to punish you, why not use the new "Backdash out of jail free" card that was added into console. Specifically, I'm talking about back dashing being a one frame action. From what we know, waking up gives you grab invincibility and most normals are around 3-5 frames of start-up if they're not Maxima ><. If that's the case, if someone tries to poke you out of DPs (Since a lot of them lost or never had lower invincibility on start-up), why not just backdash instead?
Not too sure what you mean. If you're getting up I don't think doing a backdash will help you much, especially in the corner. If you're talking about you punishing their wake up DP then backdash will avoid grab commands and avoid their dp for punish on recovery. It's safer than a ambi-roll in that aspect. The point of doing though is to bait them to dp, so being right next to them you have to condition them sometimes by assuming they won't dp.

Miles u play marvel? I might need some teaching some time down the line.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: milesw on November 16, 2011, 04:17:36 AM
Miles u play marvel? I might need some teaching some time down the line.
nonono...

I believe SYN Aaron will be playing KOF with us so he'd be the best person to approach.


Miles u play marvel? I might need some teaching some time down the line.
nonono...

I believe SYN Aaron will be playing KOF with us so he'd be the best person to approach.

On this topic though..
Who out of all the characters in the game have invincible DPs from the first frame?

Ones that dont that I know for sure are...
Andy's,Yuri, Kensou, Kula, Kyo's too I think (excluding EXs)

So in theory (though I will test this out in the lab when the game drops) I could do something like...

Andy  ;dn ;d knockdown
walk forward slightly
meaty timed  ;c(2 hits)
and I could get a CH or even a trade against Yuri's A DP?


And thanks Omegaryu for this link
http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/09/the-king-of-details-3-buffering-tricks-and-motion-shortcuts/ (http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/09/the-king-of-details-3-buffering-tricks-and-motion-shortcuts/)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: darkTown2 on November 16, 2011, 04:28:05 AM
Sooo, just to keep the ball rolling. Does DP on the first frame seem like a good idea now?

I mean, if you know someone is on a hair trigger, waiting to punish you, why not use the new "Backdash out of jail free" card that was added into console. Specifically, I'm talking about back dashing being a one frame action. From what we know, waking up gives you grab invincibility and most normals are around 3-5 frames of start-up if they're not Maxima ><. If that's the case, if someone tries to poke you out of DPs (Since a lot of them lost or never had lower invincibility on start-up), why not just backdash instead?

well is it possible to use a longer reaching normal to catch the backdash in kof?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 16, 2011, 04:41:07 AM
The point was that, after watching the change log vids, that you can escape pressure by getting hit and knockdowned. In that respect, you can have an option to get out of oki. Like if someone throws out a non juggle special or hop pressure.  Times where a dp is the worst option, butat times seems like the only option to reset a situation.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: darkTown2 on November 16, 2011, 04:48:59 AM
The point was that, after watching the change log vids, that you can escape pressure by getting hit and knockdowned. In that respect, you can have an option to get out of oki. Like if someone throws out a non juggle special or hop pressure.  Times where a dp is the worst option, butat times seems like the only option to reset a situation.

ohhhhhh ok than in that respect i think it will be a useful option for that type of a situation.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on November 16, 2011, 02:26:38 PM
0- The most important thing to understand is the backdash makes you in airborn state after the first frame, so on the first frame you're still on the ground to be hitted by any meaty or whatever
1- The backdash has 0 (ZERO) frames of invincibility
2- If a special hits you in the air depending on the properties of this special you can be juggle/combo after that
3- If a command move hits you, you can be in a juggle state in the air depending on the properties of this special you can be juggle/combo after that
4- After a normal move you're in recovering state, so you can be only hit by free juggle moves
5- Anti air throws will catch you

And if someone will poke you out of you're dp he will probably use a fast light in meaty and you lose or a j.CD and you lose again.

If the meaty is good made enough the dp will whiff or be guarded.
On this topic though..
Who out of all the characters in the game have invincible DPs from the first frame?

Roughly every A/B dp move has invincibility on his start up. I don't remind any exception. Some have invincibility after the first few frames following the activation.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 16, 2011, 07:18:59 PM
joe apparently has none on his light dp+b, it's just really fast, but that's something to confirm for sure when ppl have the game in their hands. Also some light dp's have knock down properties heavy versions don't (i.e. Ryo?)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 16, 2011, 09:26:00 PM
0- The most important thing to understand is the backdash makes you in airborn state after the first frame, so on the first frame you're still on the ground to be hitted by any meaty or whatever
1- The backdash has 0 (ZERO) frames of invincibility
2- If a special hits you in the air depending on the properties of this special you can be juggle/combo after that
3- If a command move hits you, you can be in a juggle state in the air depending on the properties of this special you can be juggle/combo after that
4- After a normal move you're in recovering state, so you can be only hit by free juggle moves
5- Anti air throws will catch you

The backdash has been a big topic for several us that have been testing the game.  Yes there are ways around people abusing it, and yes there are always ways to counter it, but it still is a problem for certain wake up games that require you to commit to an attack strategy.

Let's say you're Vice or Ryo, you can't do overhead into DM. They even made their f.As [SC]-only and now it's rather useless in wake up games.  Grapplers as well that have to commit to grabbing their opponent on wakeup (the oldest shortcut of hcb C --> hcb C for either Clark or Goro isn't going to work on wake up if the opponent backdash). 

Either one of the scenarios the first hit (be hit command attack or s.C) will hit the now airborne opponent although the DM may or may not actually come out, you'll be in some sort of recovery frames allowing your opponent to escape.  If for some reason the move does come out, you might even be subjected to a punish.

As for the timing the meaty hit, I suppose when you guys get your hands on the game you'll see if it's viable (since I'm not allowed to reveal what I have "found").
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on November 16, 2011, 10:59:28 PM
Hmm after an overhead the SC don't let you combo if you hit your opponent in a back dash? The super whiffs ? Because i don't know the property of those moves very well ...

And i can't test by my own so ...

BTW the free juggle non ex move will be very powerful in this case, K' didn't have said his last word.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: milesw on November 16, 2011, 11:56:21 PM
0- The most important thing to understand is the backdash makes you in airborn state after the first frame, so on the first frame you're still on the ground to be hitted by any meaty or whatever
1- The backdash has 0 (ZERO) frames of invincibility
2- If a special hits you in the air depending on the properties of this special you can be juggle/combo after that
3- If a command move hits you, you can be in a juggle state in the air depending on the properties of this special you can be juggle/combo after that
4- After a normal move you're in recovering state, so you can be only hit by free juggle moves
5- Anti air throws will catch you

And if someone will poke you out of you're dp he will probably use a fast light in meaty and you lose or a j.CD and you lose again.

If the meaty is good made enough the dp will whiff or be guarded.
On this topic though..
Who out of all the characters in the game have invincible DPs from the first frame?

Roughly every A/B dp move has invincibility on his start up. I don't remind any exception. Some have invincibility after the first few frames following the activation.

So how do you explain being hit or trading with a meaty timed normal on my wake if Im doing...lets say andy's dp+A or even C version
I've had numerous occasions where it just trades. But ex DP owns everything. Same can be said for Yuri.

I dunno much about the KOF system so in that scenario that means what in terms of invincibility frames?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 17, 2011, 12:50:38 AM
Hmm after an overhead the SC don't let you combo if you hit your opponent in a back dash? The super whiffs ? Because i don't know the property of those moves very well ...

And i can't test by my own so ...

BTW the free juggle non ex move will be very powerful in this case, K' didn't have said his last word.

That's what I was trying to say: If you backdash on wakeup, you get knocked down again and you can recovery roll, but unless the move is like an anywhere juggle kind of move or it's counter hit, you might not get hit.

So it's a defensive option that's pretty viable on wake-up. Probably won't effect people like Clark who, if he guesses right, can just grab you anyway in the corner. However, it will make you consider your oki game a little because that's now an option.

Things like Iori's moves on wake-up will probably still catch you because his Maiden Masher can grab you out of the air when you hit them. Same for K' EX Chain Drive. Moves like Takuma's EX Haoshokoken will probably miss because the first hit knocked down. Ryo's overhead on wake-up or a low B's, will just knock people down and the opponent might go on autopilot. For example, if Terry does a usually blockstring, he'll include df+C in any of it. But df+C isn't safe on whiff and it'll definitely whiff if you knock someone down with a C or a D. Meanwhile, you're recovering. See how that can be kinda bad?

Might also be the case in frame traps too? I don't know if it's on recovery or at all times, but a 1 frame activation could mean you get out of frame trap strings with characters without one-frame moves.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on November 17, 2011, 12:58:50 AM
So how do you explain being hit or trading with a meaty timed normal on my wake if Im doing...lets say andy's dp+A or even C version
I've had numerous occasions where it just trades. But ex DP owns everything. Same can be said for Yuri.

I dunno much about the KOF system so in that scenario that means what in terms of invincibility frames?
I said there is invincibility on the start up, I didn't say they are fully invincible.

...

It just force you to time your meaty to hit at the first frame of the wake up (That is the idea when you're doing a meaty). And you will hit your opponent because if he wants to do his backdash has a reversal he won't guard your meaty which will punish the backdash.

For frame traps it seems to become a far more reliable option. But if you're using a close move for you're frame trap and the far version of the move has more range or you're move is whiff cancelable you can always hit you're opponent i guess.
It will just enhance CD utilisation imo. Because they all are whiff cancelable and oftenly go forward. It's making CD the perfect option in those kind of situations if you expect a backdash from your opponent since he's knocking down (But it's a soft one).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 17, 2011, 01:13:52 AM
Hmm after an overhead the SC don't let you combo if you hit your opponent in a back dash? The super whiffs ? Because i don't know the property of those moves very well ...

Well it won't combo because you'll be technically in the air, so the overhead would just reset you.  We're talking about if the overhead or the first hit does not hit them when they're still on the ground--considering it only takes them 1F to get there, it's a very high chance.

BTW the free juggle non ex move will be very powerful in this case, K' didn't have said his last word.

Vice, K', Raiden (technically haha), Yuri, Liz will have fun with some mind games due to their anywhere juggles.

---

All I can say about the backdash is for those who have access to the game, try setting up where one person knocks the person down, then tell the person to spam backdash, meanwhile try to time meaty attacks and see what the result is.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: davidkong07 on November 17, 2011, 10:23:07 AM
so, as long as we have frame perfect meaty attacks, theoretically we can still fully punish backdashes eh? that's cool. same shit in sf4, it might take us some time to time well, but eventually it shouldn't be a rare occurrence, given specific untechable knockdowns. just thank god that back dashes don't have any invincibility!!


and Kane, could you possibly tell us definitively which uppercuts have invincibility? that would be greatly helpful i think.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 17, 2011, 10:29:39 AM
and Kane, could you possibly tell us definitively which uppercuts have invincibility? that would be greatly helpful i think.

Heck I don't know off the top of my head.  I just the majority of them do, having said that, it's not a good idea to do wake up DPs in KOF in general.  In the arcade v1.1 it was more about wake up Exs but console has removed a lot of the Ex specials' properties across the board.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 17, 2011, 12:02:45 PM
If you backdash just as Vice does her command grab so that it misses she will still be safe from a run-in meaty. I'm pretty sure.

I'd even go as far as to say Clarks commad grab D in that same situation is also much safer than in 2k2um. The recovery frames are really shorter. A short hesitation watching if he did something and then deciding to attack is all he needs to block, ex-gatling or attempt a grab again as you run in.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: omegaryuji on November 17, 2011, 05:52:20 PM
0- The most important thing to understand is the backdash makes you in airborn state after the first frame, so on the first frame you're still on the ground to be hitted by any meaty or whatever
Are we sure about this?  This was my initial understandaing as well, but the video for the "1 frame backdash" change sure looked like a meaty hit still forced an aerial reset.  I guess we'll see some stuff soon from the people with early releases, since Kane is keeping his secrets *laughs*

So how do you explain being hit or trading with a meaty timed normal on my wake if Im doing...lets say andy's dp+A or even C version
I've had numerous occasions where it just trades. But ex DP owns everything. Same can be said for Yuri.

I dunno much about the KOF system so in that scenario that means what in terms of invincibility frames?
The way that invincible DPs typically work in KOF (haven't tested extensively in XIII yet myself, but what Sharnt says seems to agree with this) is that they have invincible frames through startup only.  This means that they won't get stuffed but will trade with anything that's already active inside of them once the DP reaches active frames.

EX specials are a whole different matter.

Might also be the case in frame traps too? I don't know if it's on recovery or at all times, but a 1 frame activation could mean you get out of frame trap strings with characters without one-frame moves.
It would work like this against a frame trap:

Char A does frame trap opening
Char B backdashes during the gap
Char A hits with the next part of the frame trap against an aerial opponent

Further implications would depend on the exact frame trap being used.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on November 19, 2011, 05:06:03 PM
I'm hopeful that meaty attacks will still hit on the ground. Now that I think about it, there might be a clue here in terms of terminology.

SNK referred to certain PDMs in MOTW as being "zero frame moves" (straight from SNK literature) such as Gato's, Dong's, etc. That meant if you weren't already blocking you got destructed by the move. To me that would imply a "one frame" move requires 1 frame to transpire before the airborne state is initiated, thereby making the full benefits of a meaty valid.

I'm hoping that the above is true, otherwise wake-up backdashing might be used 70-95% of the time by players who know about it in the corner until the opponent began using a vs backdashing strategy such as hd-juggling/supering on oki...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: shinefist on November 19, 2011, 08:36:50 PM
Great topic people.

Looks like we will have to think up new ways to approach the grounded foe's.
Wonder's if you run forward if you anticipate there back step, that may create a clear combo option?

Its interesting as because if someone thinks you have good timing you could use that to lock them down to not doing a back step, then they are forced to block, attack or guard cancel etc.

Characters with fast hyper hops may punish back steps too, after that characters with fast forward trajectory moves will place high in punishing them too.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 19, 2011, 11:25:49 PM
It'll be interesting to see how it's used. If people go into autopilot during their hop-ins, they're going to do something unsafe while whiffing.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: shinefist on November 20, 2011, 12:46:41 AM
Reiki do you mean if they dont back step your hop will go over there head if they duck, is that what you mean?

If thats the case the opponent could just crouch sweep you or something.

hum it seems like a new layer of deph has been added with the back step. Curse you b,b lol.

Heck i'll just wait till they do b,b then use my kyo's ex orochinagi hehe.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: PhoeniX on November 21, 2011, 01:01:52 AM
So the day before yesterday, I was screwing around in KOFXIII training mode (arcade version). And I found a very odd, and pretty bad bug.

So I made a video illustrating this bug.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksY0JwFM77s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksY0JwFM77s#ws)

Basically whenever Iori tries to crouch block the second hitbox of certain attacks (mostly uppercut like moves, like close C and crouch C), he can't. He can standing block them, this essentially makes them extremely fast overheads.

For most chars, it isn't a big deal, they do one heavy attack hit, which hurts but won't kill you. Most characters cannot cancel the second hitbox of these attack (not even BC cancel). But three characters are especially scary.

If Kyo hits with the second hitbox of his cl.C, he can link into his EX DM and do a LOT of damage of this overhead.

Maxima's second hit of his close C is also overhead on Iori. Maxima can cancel this close C, so potentially he can also HD cancel and potentially do a full HD combo.

Robert can use his f+A which can cancel into f+B to hitconfirm and go into a hitconfirmed overhead HD cancel.

What I mean by second hitbox of a close C is the following.

Close C of Kyo has two active periods, one where his arm is close to his body, a second period where it's sticking upwards.

(http://i.imgur.com/vuem0.png) First hitbox.
(http://i.imgur.com/6unUS.png) Second hitbox.

It's that second hitbox that hits overhead for some reason. It seems to have something to do with the fact that these moves force stand.

What I really want to know is: Is this gone on console?

Kane317 tested it with Shen, other people tested the kyo and maxima one. The second hitboxes seem to whiff on crouching Iori. (which is weird... in cause of kyo cl.C, it has never been like that in previous KOF's)

I'd like to see eventually all of these case being tested. So that's where you lucky ones who got the game early come in. ;-)

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Siren on November 21, 2011, 09:26:46 AM
That's pretty scary, Hopefully it won't be present on console.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 21, 2011, 09:32:13 AM
PhoeniX, good find as usual.  I like how you always use visual aids in explanations, makes it super simple to understand.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on November 21, 2011, 10:19:15 PM
OK... I think SRK outdid themself with this KOFXIII guide:

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Strategy (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Strategy)

Who is responsible for this one?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: darkTown2 on November 21, 2011, 10:33:02 PM
that has actually been up for a week or two

pretty sweet huh.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 21, 2011, 11:24:59 PM
Reiki do you mean if they dont back step your hop will go over there head if they duck, is that what you mean?

If thats the case the opponent could just crouch sweep you or something.

hum it seems like a new layer of deph has been added with the back step. Curse you b,b lol.

Heck i'll just wait till they do b,b then use my kyo's ex orochinagi hehe.


If you mean back dashing one wake-up, I mean you'll be airborne after 1 frame. So really, you can't sweep them as they'll hop over it. However, there's more to it than that, it really just provides you with more options on wake-up or hard knockdowns that you usually didn't have.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 22, 2011, 03:58:51 AM
OK... I think SRK outdid themself with this KOFXIII guide:

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Strategy (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Strategy)

Who is responsible for this one?

Sparkster, and it has been out for awhile.  I dunno, it's one thing to take pictures from the official Mook that we purchased and use it on the wiki, and although it looks super nice admittingly--it's another thing to rip the sprites illegally like that. 

I know photos from the Mook isn't exactly correct either, but the sprite ripping comes from the rom etc...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Delta on November 22, 2011, 04:04:18 AM
So eh guys, once most of us have the game, how are we going to work on the wiki without a an official mook or guide?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on November 22, 2011, 04:17:56 AM
Sparkster, and it has been out for awhile.  I dunno, it's one thing to take pictures from the official Mook that we purchased and use it on the wiki, and although it looks super nice admittingly--it's another thing to rip the sprites illegally like that.  

I know photos from the Mook isn't exactly correct either, but the sprite ripping comes from the rom etc...

They don't look like sprites rips per say, they are taken from screen caps and then the the background is taken off. You can see the light effect that the Egypt stage cause to the sprites. So my assumption is that he took screen caps and just took the sprites. Also I say this because the sprites size is not the one from the sprite rips and the color schemes. Although the fireballs/effect could be from the sprite rips due to the black section they have.

Either way, I think this helps more than damage, since having the sprites help to visualize the strategy IMO.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: mightfo on November 22, 2011, 05:53:42 AM
Sparkster, and it has been out for awhile.  I dunno, it's one thing to take pictures from the official Mook that we purchased and use it on the wiki, and although it looks super nice admittingly--it's another thing to rip the sprites illegally like that.  

I know photos from the Mook isn't exactly correct either, but the sprite ripping comes from the rom etc...

would you prefer they crop out screenshots from videos? I dont see how it makes a difference.
the article seems fantastic, i dont see why such a thing matters. its more helpful to kof's popularity and understanding of the game than abstract notions of "stealing" commonly presented images.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 22, 2011, 12:53:05 PM
Ah I see, I stand corrected.  I was under the impression the images were sprite rips from the illegal PC dump.  I don't question how much help it is to the community with the visual aids, I was just uncertain exactly how they got the images and how SNKP felt if (which apparently it isn't) about people ripping the rom.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: PhoeniX on November 22, 2011, 01:19:44 PM
Ah I see, I stand corrected.  I was under the impression the images were sprite rips from the illegal PC dump.  I don't question how much help it is to the community with the visual aids, I was just uncertain exactly how they got the images and how SNKP felt if (which apparently it isn't) about people ripping the rom.

Even if Sparkster did get it from the illegal rip. I think the community has long decided that it was okay to use it.

Do you really think that Don't Drop That Combo that has been plastered all over the front page uses the original game board? Don't you think it's a striking coincidence that those vids suddenly showed up the moment the game leaked?

And honestly, so far the rip seems to've done SNKP good. The input lag on the rip is so incredibly bad that it's unplayable. So the only thing you can do with it is test combos, and make screenshots, test frame data, record combo videos etc. etc.

If anything it gave the game more public exposure.

Now we could go into a long discussion of whether it's correct nonetheless. But I think we should go with the 'don't ask don't tell' approach and be done with it.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 22, 2011, 01:31:45 PM
Do you really think that Don't Drop That Combo that has been plastered all over the front page uses the original game board? Don't you think it's a striking coincidence that those vids suddenly showed up the moment the game leaked?

Actually, that's why several of the sites including DC stopped putting Don't Drop That Combo on the front page.  On a personal note, we stopped it because of our affiliation with Atlus.

Definitely not a coincidence that the videos showed up the day the game was leaked.

And honestly, so far the rip seems to've done SNKP good. The input lag on the rip is so incredibly bad that it's unplayable. So the only thing you can do with it is test combos, and make screenshots, test frame data, record combo videos etc. etc.

If anything it gave the game more public exposure.

Now we could go into a long discussion of whether it's correct nonetheless. But I think we should go with the 'don't ask don't tell' approach and be done with it.

I agree once again that, as a whole it has helped the community gain exposure but if you were working with the publisher on a weekly basis, you whole view would change about certain things as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: giga_d on November 22, 2011, 08:07:32 PM
And honestly, so far the rip seems to've done SNKP good. The input lag on the rip is so incredibly bad that it's unplayable. So the only thing you can do with it is test combos, and make screenshots, test frame data, record combo videos etc. etc.

If anything it gave the game more public exposure.
The only question is how convenient is it for the rip to be nerfed in that manner that it nicely fits into a marketing scheme for SNK/Atlus.

I think it was deliberate, but that's just me. It helped the community no doubt + exposure. Very clever.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Luigi-Bo 87 on November 23, 2011, 12:37:56 AM
Brand new here and didn't know where to post this. Is this throw big window known? Am I just going crazy???

KOF XIII : Input Bug or Lax Inputs??? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKHYL730Sbg#)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: badugi on November 23, 2011, 09:46:41 AM
I love the wikipedia post that srk did with the hitboxes and everything.  So far my biggest accomplishment on online play is killing two fighters on my first character!....unfortunately I still lost.  my record 0-48!!!!, and Im even trying! Who's worse than me?? I call anyone out :P
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: p2dftonton on November 23, 2011, 09:49:05 AM
 ps2 controller convert to usb is not working on king of fighters13, why is that? we use PS3

help pls :D
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on November 23, 2011, 03:40:41 PM
Tried supercancels and drive cancels and uh... you can mash them out lol.

Like I previously said I suck at pads so at first I tried timing and then I tried mashing and the latter works. I tried the infamous Terry BnB combo and it worked just right. I mash crashoot after the knuckle and it drive cancels properly every time.

Kyo's EX dp is built for mashing lol, supercancel guaranteed. You can cancel it on any hit right? I cancelled it at all sorts of heights.

Still, I was pulling stuff more consistantly towards the end, my main issue right now being that I accidentally throw a lot instead of combing when I want to punish with a combo starting with a heavy punch.

Also, finding the timing on comboing lows funky. I haven't played KOF in a while and all (basically swore it off until something of XIII's calibur would hit) but it feels weird, its definitely not MOTW timing and neither is it 3rd Strike timing where you literally do it as fast as possible. Oddly enough I seem to be most consistant when tapping one button at a time at a controlled, almost slow, pace to get a combo out (like Terry's cB, cA, cC). The cB to cA is the funky part of course, doing cB, cB, sB, HCB+K isn't much of a problem with Kyo. Could be the fault of my pad skills though, I play MOTW and 3rd Strike on keyboard.

Anyhoots, will try my hand at HD when I get home today.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: TYRANNICAL on November 23, 2011, 04:43:40 PM
Getting down EX moves 100% is a bit of a pain. Problem being is that all 4 buttons on a pad usually means just using your thumb.  Binding the LP+HP/LK+HK to a single button is kinda sloppy.  I had to redo my button layout for better results.  It's similar to what I did in GG:
X=LP
Square=LK
R1=HP
R2=HK

Like this I can easier hit B+C for activation an get down EX moves pretty easy.  I'm not used to it yet but I'm getting there.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on November 23, 2011, 04:55:53 PM
^ That's true, I have the following set:

X= LP
Circle= LK
Square= HP
Triangle= HK
R1= HD

EX, rolling and CD all come out pretty good. Having it this way, where its difficult to activate HD with the face buttons, also lowers the chances of an accidental activation.

Still, I don't want to lose during critical moment where an ex special or super would have won me the match but I got the regular version instead. I'll play some more to see my consistancy with ex (which hasn't been too bad so far) but I will definitely consider triggers as shortcuts if things get annoying.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Atb_555 on November 24, 2011, 08:34:00 AM
Can you tiger knee in this game?  Cos I have great difficulty doing K's air instant air qcb + K from a st.A reset.  If you can't tiger knee is there a work around?

Thanks
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 24, 2011, 08:37:44 AM
Yes you can, and you can try back dash into air minute spike but I dunno if it's fast enough to connect. UPDATE: only the TK way is fast enough, back dash one will not get there in time.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: asociale on November 24, 2011, 08:50:39 AM
Brand new here and didn't know where to post this. Is this throw big window known? Am I just going crazy???

KOF XIII : Input Bug or Lax Inputs??? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKHYL730Sbg#)

in training never had problems... i can pull out anything with any lag
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Atb_555 on November 24, 2011, 10:39:26 AM
Yes you can, and you can try back dash into air minute spike but I dunno if it's fast enough to connect. UPDATE: only the TK way is fast enough, back dash one will not get there in time.

I see is it case of doing it fast or accurate I can't seem grasp the timing properly. 

Thanks
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 24, 2011, 10:49:14 AM
Yes you can, and you can try back dash into air minute spike but I dunno if it's fast enough to connect. UPDATE: only the TK way is fast enough, back dash one will not get there in time.

I see is it case of doing it fast or accurate I can't seem grasp the timing properly.  

Thanks

Probably too fast, just qcb~ub(hold for a split sec)+K
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sikemopko on November 24, 2011, 01:24:50 PM
Can you tiger knee in this game?

Thanks

Seems okay to me, I can instant air Leona's v-slasher super without a problem
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Atb_555 on November 24, 2011, 05:04:42 PM
I think its more of a case of timing it quickly from K's st.A reset that is putting me off. I'll try it again next time.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: oricon on November 24, 2011, 07:38:47 PM
Im struggling to do hcb motions in combos, for example i cant do one of her trials where you have to do cancel her srk into her hcb x2 special, im on pad need help!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on November 24, 2011, 08:21:39 PM
^ That's true, I have the following set:

X= LP
Circle= LK
Square= HP
Triangle= HK
R1= HD

EX, rolling and CD all come out pretty good. Having it this way, where its difficult to activate HD with the face buttons, also lowers the chances of an accidental activation.

Still, I don't want to lose during critical moment where an ex special or super would have won me the match but I got the regular version instead. I'll play some more to see my consistancy with ex (which hasn't been too bad so far) but I will definitely consider triggers as shortcuts if things get annoying.

it's like somebody ctrl-C ctrl-V my neo cd lay out. this works wonders on ps pad to, since only ;b ;c and ;a ;d are hard. and the latter thank god not used in kof makes neo cd lay out with ;b ;c on R1 the best layout possible on pad imo and even snk's during the development of the neo cd and its pads. thers a reason snk used this layout on their own pad, they mainly make fighters and this layout is the ideal one for neo fighters. simple as that.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 24, 2011, 08:26:11 PM
I think its more of a case of timing it quickly from K's st.A reset that is putting me off. I'll try it again next time.

Hey Atb_555, I have been practicing a bit at home and here's a little exercise that might be helpful. After a juggle, see if you can do st.A into EX air QCB+K.

The way I'm doing it is I'll do qcb-ub ~delay~ then press the button. You can try it by yourself. EX ground minute spike does 110 damage and EX air minute spike does 70 damage. See if you can get it down.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Atb_555 on November 24, 2011, 08:57:58 PM
Coolio I'll try that later thanks man ;)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 24, 2011, 09:13:44 PM
No problem! Be sure to rip up the competition in the UK for me!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: PhoeniX on November 24, 2011, 10:43:11 PM
Brand new here and didn't know where to post this. Is this throw big window known? Am I just going crazy???

You're not going crazy, that's the way it's supposed to be!

Really? Yes. All KOF's have been like this. What happens is, all normals have 4 frames input lag (so A, B, C, D) all specials have 1 frame input lag, and AB,BC,CD have 0 frames input lag. Or at least, that's how it has always been in older KOF's. Not sure if these numbers have changed, but input lag is still there.

So, if you press C, and then forward within 4 frames, C hasn't started yet, and the game registers f+C instead, which is a throw.

It's kind of annoying, the answer is pretty much pressing the forward somewhat later, you have plenty of time.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: darkTown2 on November 24, 2011, 10:47:52 PM
that's one of my few griefs in kof when i'll go to punish somebody in the heat of battle and i'll get a throw.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: desmond_kof on November 24, 2011, 11:07:03 PM
that's one of my few griefs in kof when i'll go to punish somebody in the heat of battle and i'll get a throw.

Yeah, that actually cost me a match in a 2002UM tournament...Someone missed a SDM, so with Kusanagi I wanted to cl.c, qcf + D, D into orochinagi...then instead of that, a throw came out and they still had enough health left to run around. I could've killed em with that, plus my health was very low like 5% left. So I got hit with a far cancel-able poke into a special move, and I lost.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 24, 2011, 11:09:57 PM
that's one of my few griefs in kof when i'll go to punish somebody in the heat of battle and i'll get a throw.

Yeah, that actually cost me a match in a 2002UM tournament...Someone missed a SDM, so with Kusanagi I wanted to cl.c, qcf + D, D into orochinagi...then instead of that, a throw came out and they still had enough health left to run around. I could've killed em with that, plus my health was very low like 5% left. So I got hit with a far cancel-able poke into a special move, and I lost.

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o150/jaustin612/fuuuuuuuuuuuuu.jpg)

Totally true in that situation. I don't like doing it. Only person I ever have to do that with on my team is K'. Otherwise, I try not to use people with f/b+ button target combos.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 24, 2011, 11:11:22 PM
Great, now I'm nervous about my own punishes.  Thanks guys.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on November 24, 2011, 11:12:02 PM
I feel like I have to spam Jump CD all the time. If I'm not doing that and just doing a jumping C or D to combo into, the other guy does jump CD and hits me out...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 24, 2011, 11:13:33 PM
I feel like I have to spam Jump CD all the time. If I'm not doing and just doing a jumping C or D to combo into, the other guy does jump CD and hits me out...

Well, if he does it real meaty, you might have to worry because of the block stun. But if he does it REALLY early, you can duck and do low B or Low D to knock'em down and duck under the hitbox.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 24, 2011, 11:15:39 PM
I feel like I have to spam Jump CD all the time. If I'm not doing that and just doing a jumping C or D to combo into, the other guy does jump CD and hits me out...

Well what characters are you using?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on November 24, 2011, 11:25:02 PM
With pretty much any character, but Clark and Ralf's jump CD's are badass.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 24, 2011, 11:25:54 PM
Well use your hop pressure instead of just normal jumps.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: darkTown2 on November 25, 2011, 12:21:03 AM
Great, now I'm nervous about my own punishes.  Thanks guys.

no problem

 @Louiscipher i would think that if you can keep hop pressure or any other type of way that keeps them grounded and you can control the momentum of the match would be your best bet.
Title: Re: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FlyMike on November 25, 2011, 02:01:18 AM
Well yea if opponent is grounded and you're in close and you start combos or punishes with forward + C/D you WILL get a grab. That's why you should make a habit of just simply pressing C/D->combo.

On the flipside, you won't have to worry about a grab coming out if you're doing forward+C/D after jump-ins(if aerial move connects and the C/D is actually combo-able), or while running or dashing into C/D.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 25, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
So today I was trying the infamous Trial #5. That crap's not easy, but I learned a new skill. You can tiger knee with Terry by doing.  ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub ;up ~delay~  ;a and he'll do rising tackle. This is how I learned how to beat Terry's Rising tackle [SC] Power Geyser combo. I believe you could do the same thing with Buster wolf just the other way.

So, new tech! You can tiger knee charge moves!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on November 25, 2011, 03:41:01 AM
yep, that's something that I discovered by error on 2002um, here is harder to cancel the rising tackle into geyser, don't know why

I just need to do maxima 10 trial
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on November 25, 2011, 04:42:46 AM
Well use your hop pressure instead of just normal jumps.

Eh, problem for me is that I'm bad at consistently doing hops and everyone and their mother online is content just doing runaway. So of course, the one time I try to hop in I eat a projectile.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 25, 2011, 05:13:25 AM
Well use your hop pressure instead of just normal jumps.

Eh, problem for me is that I'm bad at consistently doing hops and everyone and their mother online is content just doing runaway. So of course, the one time I try to hop in I eat a projectile.



I tend to have a bit of trouble too, but a helpful way to do it is like a reverse super jump.

What I mean is for a super jump you'd do Down then Up, only for hopping, do the reverse quickly enough and it'll work.  You get more consistent hops that way.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Atb_555 on November 25, 2011, 08:25:39 AM
No problem! Be sure to rip up the competition in the UK for me!

Dude your a legend.  instant air specials are so much more doable now!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Reiki.Kito on November 25, 2011, 08:48:38 AM
No problem! Be sure to rip up the competition in the UK for me!

Dude your a legend.  instant air specials are so much more doable now!

(http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/xXxShadow_WarriorxXx/Onion%20Emoticons/056_.gif) Jerk, don't do that to meeee! But yea, seriously, show them what you're made of!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: johrjives on November 26, 2011, 12:59:48 AM
you really have to time jump in`s late in this game to combo. I know they reduced the hitstun from the arcade version. Gonna take a bit of getting used to. Do you guys find a big difference?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: milesw on November 26, 2011, 05:20:44 AM
Wheres the record function at in practice mode?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on November 26, 2011, 05:31:08 AM
Wheres the record function at in practice mode?

In Button Configuration
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on November 26, 2011, 10:56:28 AM
After you AB roll, what can and can you not get away with? I've noticed guys doing crB and hitting me out if I try to grab them with toward C or D or SRK or Clark's B Sab.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on November 27, 2011, 11:48:05 AM
did anyone noticed this ? with leona at first i couldnt be able to do c.B c.B c.B EX moonslasher. i noticed sometimes u have to hold a little more the 2 buttons to make the EX version come out and combo
( im not meaning any c.lp whiff, just an EX moonslasher straight after the c.B )
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: XTG on November 27, 2011, 12:01:48 PM
you really have to time jump in`s late in this game to combo. I know they reduced the hitstun from the arcade version. Gonna take a bit of getting used to. Do you guys find a big difference?

YES! I was wondering what was going on when I attempt a jumpin combo. Thank you for the enlightenment.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on November 27, 2011, 12:20:27 PM
After you AB roll, what can and can you not get away with? I've noticed guys doing crB and hitting me out if I try to grab them with toward C or D or SRK or Clark's B Sab.

Bump.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: StickyStaines on November 27, 2011, 02:37:38 PM
Is there a consistant way of doing srk specials drive canceled into qcf specials? Take for example Kula's DP+C xx QCF+AC.

I can kind of do it but doing f, d, df, f, C~AC, but sometimes i'll get EX DP and sometime sit wont come out at all.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on November 27, 2011, 05:20:22 PM
I'll try to explain :

The buffer is wide enough to allow you to DC a dp move in to a new dp move by simply holding df and press the button for the DC after the first dp.

By example you can do dp.C,(DC)dp.AC with Kula by doing : 6523+C~AC (Because moves can be drive cancelled by their Ex versions). But you can also DC the dp of yuri in her demon flip : 6523+C~D, same thing goes for qcf moves, you can DC Kensou's rekkas by doing qcf.A,qcf.A~AC (In fact you can also cancel the second rekka by the third with the same idea).
What's why sometimes a Ex dp comes out, you're not yet on the 6 you press AC the Ex dp comes out.

Now to avoid problems it seems snk makes the game recognize buffer like 6523+C 6+C and prevent it to be drive cancelled. But this thing is disable in Maxmode what's why this trick will works really well. And doing dp.C,(HD)qcf.C by this method is really easy. So if you're not using this in Maxmode i can only recommand you to do the real move, 6523+C 236+AC. It will avoid any problems if you're precise enough.


/* About doing the dp.A,(DC)qcf.AC with K' */

Since i'm not a K' player it tooks me a while to understood it's a timing problem.

Btw i asked the french community and the answers are :
You can do 6523+A 6+C/AC but the window is really, really tight (i thought it was impossible my bad)
You can also do hcb f.A,(DC)qcf.AC the window is really tighter than the A or C version but i succeed in some times.
You can also do 6236A, 9AC but here the timing is tight too ...

I don't know for this specific case which one is the easiest.

If it's just for the trial go into HD mode.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Terrastorm on November 27, 2011, 05:33:29 PM
After you AB roll, what can and can you not get away with? I've noticed guys doing crB and hitting me out if I try to grab them with toward C or D or SRK or Clark's B Sab.

You may not be punishing the roll fast enough, or their rolling out of range of the grabs, which is why you are getting hit out of them.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mazinkaiser on November 27, 2011, 07:28:15 PM
I'll try to explain :

The buffer is wide enough to allow you to DC a dp move in to a new dp move by simply holding df and press the button for the DC after the first dp.

By example you can do dp.C,(DC)dp.AC with Kula by doing : 6523+C~AC (Because moves can be drive cancelled by their Ex versions). But you can also DC the dp of yuri in her demon flip : 6523+C~D, same thing goes for qcf moves, you can DC Kensou's rekkas by doing qcf.A,qcf.A~AC (In fact you can also cancel the second rekka by the third with the same idea).
What's why sometimes a Ex dp comes out, you're not yet on the 6 you press AC the Ex dp comes out.

Now to avoid problems it seems snk makes the game recognize buffer like 6523+C 6+C and prevent it to be drive cancelled. But this thing is disable in Maxmode what's why this trick will works really well. And doing dp.C,(HD)qcf.C by this method is really easy. So if you're not using this in Maxmode i can only recommand you to do the real move, 6523+C 236+AC. It will avoid any problems if you're precise enough.


this HUGE buffer kinda annoy me... i feel the same solution (th f.C after srk.C to obtain qcf.C without trigger a DM, if the character have two qcf,qcf.C dm obviusly) is the only solid solution but hard to training >.<,
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sharnt on November 27, 2011, 08:07:46 PM
f.C after srk.C to obtain qcf.C without trigger a DM, if the character have two qcf,qcf.C dm
Oh you're playing K'?

To do dp.C,(DC)qcf.C easily and without any risk to do the qcf qcf.C DM you should try the "long"-cut :
hcb f.C,(DC)qcf.C
The hcb f move will make a dp comes out without any risk to do a DM. The buffer is long enough to allows you to do it quite easily once you're use to do it.


I'll try to explain :

The buffer is wide enough to allow you to DC a dp move in to a new dp move by simply holding df and press the button for the DC after the first dp.

By example you can do dp.C,(DC)dp.AC with Kula by doing : 6523+C~AC (Because moves can be drive cancelled by their Ex versions). But you can also DC the dp of yuri in her demon flip : 6523+C~D, same thing goes for qcf moves, you can DC Kensou's rekkas by doing qcf.A,qcf.A~AC (In fact you can also cancel the second rekka by the third with the same idea).
What's why sometimes a Ex dp comes out, you're not yet on the 6 you press AC the Ex dp comes out.

Now to avoid problems it seems snk makes the game recognize buffer like 6523+C 6+C and prevent it to be drive cancelled. But this thing is disable in Maxmode what's why this trick will works really well. And doing dp.C,(HD)qcf.C by this method is really easy. So if you're not using this in Maxmode i can only recommand you to do the real move, 6523+C 236+AC. It will avoid any problems if you're precise enough.


/* About doing the dp.A,(DC)qcf.AC with K' */

Since i'm not a K' player it tooks me a while to understood it's a timing problem.

Btw i asked the french community and the answers are :
You can do 6523+A 6+C/AC but the window is really, really tight (i thought it was impossible my bad)
You can also do hcb f.A,(DC)qcf.AC the window is really tighter than the A or C version but i succeed in some times.
You can also do 6236A, 9AC but here the timing is tight too ...

I don't know for this specific case which one is the easiest.

If it's just for the trial go into HD mode.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on November 28, 2011, 04:31:51 AM
After you AB roll, what can and can you not get away with? I've noticed guys doing crB and hitting me out if I try to grab them with toward C or D or SRK or Clark's B Sab.

You may not be punishing the roll fast enough, or their rolling out of range of the grabs, which is why you are getting hit out of them.

I really meant what I could get away with after doing an AB roll?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on November 28, 2011, 05:30:50 AM
A nice implementation of AB roll that I like is to create an ambiguous crossup situation after knocking an opponent down. Although it can be done with any character, time the roll so that you come out of it just as the opponent is waking up, you need to place the roll so that you finish right at the center of the opponent so that they don't know which side you are on.

As you may not be able to tell either, so you can start a low string to get a confirm as they wake up.

Going back to what you were asking though, the recovery window after rolls is quite a bit bigger than in previous KOFs, so people tend to use much less of them.

A frequently used tactic with grapplers is to cmd grab after a roll.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on November 29, 2011, 01:25:31 AM
Hey, how do people feel about KOF getting a rep for being really tough in terms of execution. I always find bnb combos to be input lenient and the engine generous in providing tools for pulling off stable combos. That said, I've been playing KOF/SNK games for a long time, so my sense on the matter may be a bit warped.

I think MOTW and SFIII were much harder to work with. XIII is no harder than BB which I feel is a bit tougher, but probably bc I'm not as familiar with it.

I can understand SF players, even the greats needing time to adjust to KOF, but if they're trying to do everything in trial mode, they are going to need to know shortcuts first. SFIV has a lot of crackingly unforgiving links in its trial mode...

Is it fair that KOF gets viewed as being strenuous to execute on??
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 29, 2011, 01:40:05 AM
It's not so much strenuous as...if you're not used to playing the KOF series, things can be a bit...off for you. 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on November 29, 2011, 05:19:59 AM
I think about half the cast is really hard to get good with. The inputs aren't the problem, it's the timing. Like say you use Terry, you hit them with a A Burn Knuckle but you didn't Drive Cancel in time to hit them with the Crack Shot, and now you miss out on all that damage you could've done.

Neo Max combos are really hard for most of the cast too. 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on November 29, 2011, 06:37:11 AM
Based on what you say, I definitely get a better appreciation for being new to KOF or converting to KOF from an SF background. I can see there being a learning curve in getting used to the drive cancels and especially the HD stuff.

How would you compare burn knuckle drive cancelled into crack shoot versus some of the trials in SF IV? I remember wanting to rip off my skin trying to complete some of the prescribed combos with Guy (one of my favs from Alpha) and Dudley.

For Dudley/Guy there were a bunch were I had to do thinks like jump attack > link normals (or target combo) > super where the linking stuff or tcs required hell 1 frame-like timing so that you are not too far away to land your special/super. My impression at the time (and after clearing some of the earlier ones after 30 tries) was that these combos were just not viable in play :(

Same feeling on KOF trials to you or do you think SF is harder in this respect? I guess anything comes down to muscle memory, but I definitely felt there was a difference. So are the input windows reasonable in KOF and timing just different or is one significantly harder than the other?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mr. X on November 30, 2011, 08:31:56 AM
Something I came across messing around with shortcuts

Is there some sort of bug with inputs?

There's a shortcut to do 623P 236P by going 623P69P or 6236P9P (DP+P QCF+P by doing DP+P F,UF+P or F,QCF+P UF+P).

I can do this with Elizabeth 623A69A/C/AC easy
Athena is easy 623A69B/D/BD
Kyo can do 623A6B/D/BD

K', Kyo, Robert, Yuri and Ryo, I can only cancel into A version of the 236 moves and 623A, C and AC version won't come out at all, AC just comes out as A version. K' can do it easily using 236B/D/BD

Just to follow this up, it's something with C (HP) not working, the other 3 buttons trigger this shortcut fine.

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/kof-xiii-general-discussion-part-ii.138416/page-15#post-6189697 (http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/kof-xiii-general-discussion-part-ii.138416/page-15#post-6189697)

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: PhoeniX on November 30, 2011, 12:32:33 PM
I really meant what I could get away with after doing an AB roll?

Block.

Thing is, you can simply punish rolls in their recovery, easiest way to hit that is to spam like cr.B, if you don't roll they'll hit you in front, if you do roll, they'll turn around and hit you in roll recovery and punish you bigtime.

They could also go for a meaty close C, sweep etc.

Needless to say, AB Rolling without knowing exactly why you are doing it, is a really really bad idea.

So when do you AB roll? when you know for sure that your opponent will do a move, that has such bad recovery that he will take longer than you to recovery. Then you can punish with your best punish.

If you meant guard cancel rolling. You're completely safe to attacks and throws when you do that, but when your opponent sees it coming, he can still meaty you on the recovery. In that case the answer is once again "block", but could also be "dragon punch" or "reversal throw", but that's really disrespectful, and against good players you won't get away with that more than once.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on November 30, 2011, 01:18:14 PM
Something I came across messing around with shortcuts

Is there some sort of bug with inputs?

There's a shortcut to do 623P 236P by going 623P69P or 6236P9P (DP+P QCF+P by doing DP+P F,UF+P or F,QCF+P UF+P).

I can do this with Elizabeth 623A69A/C/AC easy
Athena is easy 623A69B/D/BD
Kyo can do 623A6B/D/BD

K', Kyo, Robert, Yuri and Ryo, I can only cancel into A version of the 236 moves and 623A, C and AC version won't come out at all, AC just comes out as A version. K' can do it easily using 236B/D/BD

Just to follow this up, it's something with C (HP) not working, the other 3 buttons trigger this shortcut fine.

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/kof-xiii-general-discussion-part-ii.138416/page-15#post-6189697 (http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/kof-xiii-general-discussion-part-ii.138416/page-15#post-6189697)



The thing about the dp-->[DC] qcf motions HD mode shortcut  (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg2359#msg2359) (Liz is an exception), is that technically if you do dp+P and you do not hold the df direction (so basically return to neutral), all you have to do is tap P again to get the [DC] qcf+P.  So you don't need the forward or upforward directions.

With Liz try, dp+A (not C since she loses her buffer due to the move taking longer) --> tap A
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Daisuke Hirada on November 30, 2011, 02:51:49 PM
any tips for drive canceling charge moves? ie:raiden tackle to ex tackle, or moon slasher to her b~f  ;a or  ;c?

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on November 30, 2011, 04:10:40 PM
raiden:  ;db ;fd ;db ;a hold downback till it hits and press ;fd ;a ;c.

leona is easy:  ;db ;ub punch into ;fd kick.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mr. X on November 30, 2011, 06:58:18 PM


The thing about the dp-->[DC] qcf motions HD mode shortcut  (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg2359#msg2359) (Liz is an exception), is that technically if you do dp+P and you do not hold the df direction (so basically return to neutral), all you have to do is tap P again to get the [DC] qcf+P.  So you don't need the forward or upforward directions.

With Liz try, dp+A (not C since she loses her buffer due to the move taking longer) --> tap A

This is out of HD mode though. You can DP+A into ANY qcf+N except C button for some reason.

In HD mode, the shortcut works just fine. Can do DP+A into QCF+A/C/AC with the short cut a-ok.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Eripio69 on November 30, 2011, 07:10:19 PM
Is there a way to find out how many copies the game has sold till now?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ufgt on November 30, 2011, 07:35:26 PM
I think it's too early to have concrete figures. The best we can hope for right now is VGchartz and they're not entirely accurate. The only way would be to wait till Atlus/SNKP releases the data either in a press release or through year end financials.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on November 30, 2011, 07:37:08 PM
I think it's too early to have concrete figures. The best we can hope for right now is VGchartz and they're not entirely accurate. The only way would be to wait till Atlus/SNKP releases the data either in a press release or through year end financials.

I think it's easily safe to say VGChartz is nowhere near accurate.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Daisuke Hirada on December 01, 2011, 05:36:59 AM
raiden:  ;db ;fd ;db ;a hold downback till it hits and press ;fd ;a ;c.

leona is easy:  ;db ;ub punch into ;fd kick.

Thanks Muso!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 01, 2011, 06:12:27 AM
Based on what you say, I definitely get a better appreciation for being new to KOF or converting to KOF from an SF background. I can see there being a learning curve in getting used to the drive cancels and especially the HD stuff.

How would you compare burn knuckle drive cancelled into crack shoot versus some of the trials in SF IV? I remember wanting to rip off my skin trying to complete some of the prescribed combos with Guy (one of my favs from Alpha) and Dudley.

For Dudley/Guy there were a bunch were I had to do thinks like jump attack > link normals (or target combo) > super where the linking stuff or tcs required hell 1 frame-like timing so that you are not too far away to land your special/super. My impression at the time (and after clearing some of the earlier ones after 30 tries) was that these combos were just not viable in play :(

Same feeling on KOF trials to you or do you think SF is harder in this respect? I guess anything comes down to muscle memory, but I definitely felt there was a difference. So are the input windows reasonable in KOF and timing just different or is one significantly harder than the other?

guy and dudley combos where easy mode imo, this is harder. especially the very specific stuff where you have to link, time and remember a combo consisting of 15 moves. most trouble i had with ssf4 trials where gens.

and no prob dai.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BioBooster on December 01, 2011, 06:30:25 AM
Have to say, you got skillz. I was getting crushed trying to do those (although for the life of me didn't think the trial stuff was viable on combat). This all really interesting to me btw. Guess it does come down to what you are used to. I'm pretty at home with the KOF combos, although I agree that remembering long lists of moves can be pretty tedius and not remembering being a reason for dropping something.

I'll probably try to do all the trials once, then in play stick with what I like and comes naturally based on the scenario.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 01, 2011, 06:43:19 AM
Muso, you said you were having trouble with that Takuma combo, the uh 3 jabs and whatever into Ranbu?  It didn't seem that hard to me, and my execution is ass.  Sure you just weren't overthinking it?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 01, 2011, 06:50:52 AM
i did the combo by making it longer, thus easier for me. and your probably wrong, its 3 chouching  ;b's, a crouching ;a cancelled into ranbu. try it again to make sue it's the right combo. the last crouching light punch was out of range for me when itried it.

also if you got good combo execution, head to the terry thread and help me out.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 01, 2011, 07:02:07 AM
i did the combo by making it longer, thus easier for me. and your probably wrong, its 3 chouching  ;b's, a crouching ;a cancelled into ranbu. try it again to make sue it's the right combo. the last crouching light punch was out of range for me when itried it.

also if you got good combo execution, head to the terry thread and help me out.

Okay, yeah, that was it.  And yeah, it wasn't that hard for me.  Hell, I always hit that last crouching A.  I got it on my second try with a FB cancel (it was by mistake, tapped A an extra time).  Got it 5th overall (or 3 tries after my first success) completely raw.

And my execution is ass lol.  I have trouble with simple Terry combos, I doubt I could help on the fun stuff.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 01, 2011, 08:33:21 AM
im playing on PS3 pad, my controller is ass.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 01, 2011, 08:36:07 AM
im playing on PS3 pad, my controller is ass.

I had to play on 360 pad for two years, I don't wanna hear that crap man.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mazinkaiser on December 01, 2011, 02:48:35 PM
im playing on PS3 pad, my controller is ass.

I had to play on 360 pad for two years, I don't wanna hear that crap man.

I like it, played kof xi for 1 year with sony pad and was awesome xD
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Tikok on December 01, 2011, 04:17:00 PM
Hello everyone , I was kinda afraid to make a new thread about that but, it would be great if we had a thread where we could list all the unannounced changes that happened on KoF XIII console . I have found these so far :

- Elisabeth's ground CD is whiff cancellable
- Athena's EX Psychoball keeps the opponent in hit/block stun longer
- Athena's C Psychosword's first hit sends the opponent higher in the air making it easier to combo after if you drive cancel into teleport.
- Kula's jump C's hitbox is weaker is you do a hop, it's the same as arcade version if you do a high jump
- Kula's EX Crow Bite's new hitbox makes it very hard to safe jump, kinda like Raiden's EX Raiden Bomb
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 01, 2011, 06:30:45 PM
im playing on PS3 pad, my controller is ass.

I had to play on 360 pad for two years, I don't wanna hear that crap man.

I like it, played kof xi for 1 year with sony pad and was awesome xD

you mean the game they made that had by far the best controls ever for a fighter, the one where people with terrible execution playing on even crappier controllers could still pull of the hardest combos? that game is different, the controls in it are godlike. 13 is way more precise, and youll see how bad those pads are if you play a game like kof 95 or 94 or ff3 on it. nobody should use xi as a base to review pads or sticks, the controls are so godlike that it probably even fixes broken pads during play.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Light on December 02, 2011, 04:47:34 PM
Not sure if anyone ran pass this short cut, most likely others know it. I was practicing for a while with Elizabeth and, I had a hard time trying to do her main BNB drive combo.   ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ~  ;dn ;df ;fd ;a.

Everytime I did it the result was.
  ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;a x2. Her Noble Blanc super.

After trying different ways for her drive cancel to work, I tried doing.
  ;fd ;dn ;df+ ;a then   ;a+ ;dn ;df ;fd and it worked everytime. I tried the same concept with Saiki's DP and, fireball and, it worked.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 02, 2011, 04:55:58 PM
Actually for Saiki's DP into FB, you can just hold A or C and the DC will happen.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: BiGGDaddyCane on December 02, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
Starting to really like Ralf,I can build meter with LP Dynamite, has nice AA's.

He might add well with my Vice & Mature, im doing good with him online. Just gonna have to play offline to see whats really up but im liking him.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on December 03, 2011, 12:14:08 AM
Any tip for activating Ash LP>LK>HP>HK without activating HD? I tend to activate HD a lot when I do it. =/
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 03, 2011, 12:50:01 AM
Any tip for activating Ash LP>LK>HP>HK without activating HD? I tend to activate HD a lot when I do it. =/

I know for Shen's and Ash's you can do the first 3 buttons pretty quickly, dash and push the 4th so I'm assuming, you can do the first two, then press the other two.  Now that I think about it, you might just end up rolling haha.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: DarKaoZ on December 03, 2011, 12:55:24 AM
Any tip for activating Ash LP>LK>HP>HK without activating HD? I tend to activate HD a lot when I do it. =/

I know for Shen's and Ash's you can do the first 3 buttons pretty quickly, dash and push the 4th so I'm assuming, you can do the first two, then press the other two.  Now that I think about it, you might just end up rolling haha.

Yeah, I end up with Rolling, that is another problem I have sometimes with Ash only. Shen doesn't suffer that problem. lol
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Light on December 03, 2011, 07:19:25 PM
I usually do it in the corner after  ;bk / ;fd ;a during a juggle. During the hit animation hit   ;a ;b ;c  really fast then run and, hit  ;d. For jump in's if you hit  ;a ;b to fast yea he will roll so hit  ;b a little slower or hit  ;b ;c ;d during the animation of  ;a. I believe there is a guide on youtube for San-culotte.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FM Sway on December 03, 2011, 08:35:19 PM
Hi everyone >< New member here.

I must feel like a total fool, but I have no clue how to cancel Elisabeth's  ;dn ;df ;fd ;b/ ;d xx  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a/ ;c

It's pretty much Elisabeth's 2nd mission.. I don't get it. I don't understand how I'm supposed to buffer as fast as the demo says >< Some help please! Or do I have to really grind it out?

EDIT: I mean. I can do the motion and it comes out. But it wont come out with the command normal. How fast do I have to be? ><
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on December 03, 2011, 10:58:05 PM
Okay, possibly another dumb question about jump ins. In 3S I'm so used to someone jumping in with Low Kick or just a bad jump meaty, and trying to throw me or subject me to some form of Yomi Magic. So let's say they jump in with an early jumping C or D, didn't look like they could combo off of it, so I try to throw them with Toward C or D or reversal out. I can never get that out.

So, what's going on? I know KOF has an anti-tick throw system (unless you use Clark) where it doesn't matter how early you do your jump in, the game is not going to give you a tick throw, unless your jump in totally whiffs.

But I don't understand how an early jump can still lead to a block string.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Rex Dart on December 05, 2011, 06:57:30 AM
Hi everyone >< New member here.

I must feel like a total fool, but I have no clue how to cancel Elisabeth's  ;dn ;df ;fd ;b/ ;d xx  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a/ ;c

It's pretty much Elisabeth's 2nd mission.. I don't get it. I don't understand how I'm supposed to buffer as fast as the demo says >< Some help please! Or do I have to really grind it out?

EDIT: I mean. I can do the motion and it comes out. But it wont come out with the command normal. How fast do I have to be? ><

Hello FullMetal! Welcome to DC. Maybe you'd like to introduce yourself in the Meet & Greet section (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0)?

Anyway, for Elisabeth's second mission . . . you basically just have to be really, really fast. You cancel the qcf+B into the throw immediately. When you get it right, you won't even see qcf+B come out. I eventually got it, although it did take quite a while.

I don't know if this helps at all, but you might want to try asking in Elisabeth's character thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=290.105). People who play her lots might have better advice. Good luck.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 05, 2011, 07:49:51 AM
lol i had the same problem yesterday when i picked lizzy for the first time to do some trials. also kept getting supercancels during 1 trial when i didn't want to. i think lizzy and duo where the only characters i still hadn't tried on console, and not really liking saiki.

also i remember the problem, doing 2 crouching light into dp made her do the ;dn ;df ;fd x2 punch super instead most of the time. i remember back in the days when it was the other way around in older kofs with tge stricter inputs. back then you had to do your  ;dn ;df ;fd x2 super super precise after crouching lights to do the super, otherwise youd get a dp (the way its supposed to be. in XIII i want to dp but most of the time i get super, wtf. anybody know a trick im forgetting?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: KBlackNoah on December 05, 2011, 11:29:19 AM
My problem is with elisabeth trials ... some of them are impossible or close to impossible.There are times when you have to input fdf punch then quickly cancel with qcf punch - if it's not timed 100% right super will come out.That is bullshit.It would be nice to see someone pull out those elisabeth trials and put them on youtube and prove me wrong
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on December 05, 2011, 11:36:32 AM
lol i had the same problem yesterday when i picked lizzy for the first time to do some trials. also kept getting supercancels during 1 trial when i didn't want to. i think lizzy and duo where the only characters i still hadn't tried on console, and not really liking saiki.

also i remember the problem, doing 2 crouching light into dp made her do the ;dn ;df ;fd x2 punch super instead most of the time. i remember back in the days when it was the other way around in older kofs with tge stricter inputs. back then you had to do your  ;dn ;df ;fd x2 super super precise after crouching lights to do the super, otherwise youd get a dp (the way its supposed to be. in XIII i want to dp but most of the time i get super, wtf. anybody know a trick im forgetting?

My problem is with elisabeth trials ... some of them are impossible or close to impossible.There are times when you have to input fdf punch then quickly cancel with qcf punch - if it's not timed 100% right super will come out.That is bullshit.It would be nice to see someone pull out those elisabeth trials and put them on youtube and prove me wrong

When you do the C dp drive cancel, you input the qcf+P normally, once the move hits. There is a bit of a delay since the C dp has a slightly longer windup than the A dp. When you do the A dp drive cancel you hit f+X (whatever attack strength you need) immediately after inputting the dp. Keep in mind you still have to time your dp juggles correctly in order for the drive cancels to hit.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: KBlackNoah on December 05, 2011, 01:06:35 PM
@FataCon

Yes i know but those inputs a bit fucked up if they are done quickly (and you have to do them pretty fast so the qcf would hit) because 99% of the time super will come out (it's a motion of super but with a forward in the beginning as you know ... that shit is unnecessarily hard  and not safe at all because of her  2x qcf super .. if she didn t had that motion for the super it would have been easy :)  )
I am still trying those elisabeth trials untill i get them right ( i have high doubts of completing them but i like to do hard and useless stuff) but i would never use that cancel in a real match.

Please post a video of you doing any of her trials involving that dp cancel into qcf or give me a link to see someone do it.

I had a lot of fun especially with yuri and vice trials - some were a bit hard but had a fair challange
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: FataCon on December 05, 2011, 01:37:20 PM
Y'know, you could actually try reading my post. Or do I have to write out the notation for you?

dp+A > f+A

Try that. Make sure you let the stick hit neutral before the f+A. If you're getting qcfx2 super with that shortcut, then you have sloppy execution. I honestly can't give you more advice than that if you're not willing to try it. The timing is not that difficult once you get the feel down to performing it methodically. That drive cancel is integral for her high damage corner combos, so I would suggest learning them if you plan on playing Elisabeth properly.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 05, 2011, 03:06:12 PM
Ok this is seriously pissing me off, are there any alternate ways of doing f, b, f+P?

I'm playing on pad and keep getting the fireball super instead.

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Sanger Zonvolt on December 05, 2011, 03:35:24 PM
Ok this is seriously pissing me off, are there any alternate ways of doing f, b, f+P?

I'm playing on pad and keep getting the fireball super instead.



Playing Takuma? I have the same issue as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: KBlackNoah on December 05, 2011, 03:44:19 PM
gonna try that shortcut. and my execution is flawless ... i just don t know the shortucts for XIII i just got the game  a few days ago and haven t played that much.Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 05, 2011, 03:45:10 PM
Playing Takuma? I have the same issue as well.

Yep, Takuma and Ryo.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: The Fluke on December 05, 2011, 07:32:50 PM
Ok this is seriously pissing me off, are there any alternate ways of doing f, b, f+P?

I'm playing on pad and keep getting the fireball super instead.



In xii you could do df,b,f+p. Not anymore though. Seems to be pretty strict in this game.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Siren on December 05, 2011, 08:06:18 PM
This game has a high buffer window so you will have to be strict especially on pad. Make sure you don't slide your thumb from f to b. Your going to have to pick your thumb off the d-pad and hit each direction.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Ky0 on December 06, 2011, 03:46:29 AM
DAT TAKUMA'S TAUNT  (http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/lunettes-cool-20060614.gif)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: johrjives on December 06, 2011, 06:02:00 AM
This game has a high buffer window so you will have to be strict especially on pad. Make sure you don't slide your thumb from f to b. Your going to have to pick your thumb off the d-pad and hit each direction.

yup, this is the first thing i noticed about using a pad in this game. I was doing ralphs trials I think? Anyway, you cannot slide from b to f, and vice versa. You litterally have to take your thumb off the pad for each input.  A good way to get the hang of it is try doing ralphs qcf+C, b~f+A HD combo.  I noticed Ryo's trials you had to be particularily precise. Hope this helps...
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 06, 2011, 07:36:25 AM
dp+A > f+A

another great tip. sticky thread for these shortcuts would be handy.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 06, 2011, 10:43:50 AM
dp+A > f+A

another great tip. sticky thread for these shortcuts would be handy.

First page of this thread.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 06, 2011, 02:14:23 PM
This game has a high buffer window so you will have to be strict especially on pad. Make sure you don't slide your thumb from f to b. Your going to have to pick your thumb off the d-pad and hit each direction.

Not finding this method very reliable, guess I'll have to make due without the move :/

yup, this is the first thing i noticed about using a pad in this game. I was doing ralphs trials I think? Anyway, you cannot slide from b to f, and vice versa. You litterally have to take your thumb off the pad for each input.  A good way to get the hang of it is try doing ralphs qcf+C, b~f+A HD combo.  I noticed Ryo's trials you had to be particularily precise. Hope this helps...

Not really, I can do those loops just fine and Ralf doesn't have a super with f, HCF+P so there is nothing to overlap with.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: meiji_99 on December 06, 2011, 04:51:57 PM
@Diavle & Sanger Zonvolt
I usually input f,b,f P, by using tapping the direction not sliding it and it works for me :D.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MAASKYO on December 06, 2011, 06:01:38 PM
 Where i can find the frame data...???
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 06, 2011, 06:22:34 PM
checked first page, needs an update in the first post. also no way to shortcut  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk or vice versa motion, shame.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Light on December 07, 2011, 02:42:53 AM
Okay bought Iori 98 today and, love him. Problem is, everytime I do  ;fd ;dn ;df+ ;c then try to do  ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;a ;c it super cancels instead of drive cancel's into ex fireball.

Same issue with his  ;fd ;dn ;df +  ;c into  ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a it super cancel's into his can of whoop ass (not what it's called of course). Am I doing something wrong? Is there a quick, shortcut, or is it just all done in 1f like SF combo's?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: PhoeniX on December 07, 2011, 01:55:11 PM
On SRK Nax ran into an interesting damage scaling glitch.

After seeing it, I put some time into figuring it out, and I did. (scroll down somewhat for a full explanation)

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/damage-scaling-in-kofxiii-and-potential-issues.150426/ (http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/damage-scaling-in-kofxiii-and-potential-issues.150426/)

During a super, damage scaling is frozen. Not only for the hits of a super, but also the hits for anything else that would hit at that time (I can only think of fireballs that could cause this).

While I doubt you'll find little practical applications, I thought it'd be worth mentioning.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Siren on December 07, 2011, 03:16:40 PM
Okay bought Iori 98 today and, love him. Problem is, everytime I do  ;fd ;dn ;df+ ;c then try to do  ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;a ;c it super cancels instead of drive cancel's into ex fireball.

Same issue with his  ;fd ;dn ;df +  ;c into  ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a it super cancel's into his can of whoop ass (not what it's called of course). Am I doing something wrong? Is there a quick, shortcut, or is it just all done in 1f like SF combo's?

I'm having the same problem, normally you could shortcut that by double tapping P. It usually cancels your dp into fireball. However Iori refuses, I'm at a loss as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: nilcam on December 07, 2011, 03:33:42 PM
That sounds like an "overlapping" input problem. I think you're accidentally doing ;fd, ;dn, ;df, ;fd for the uppercut and the second ;qcf is being read as the second half the super. Try tiger kneeing the fireball ( ;qcf ;uf).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: KBlackNoah on December 07, 2011, 04:24:06 PM
1. is there a shortcut for  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ? (i can't link that  ;dn ;df ;fd ;b into grab for elisabeth)
2.some easy way to do  ;dn ;up  ;a and link it into  ;bk ;fd ;b for leona

thank you
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sibarraz on December 07, 2011, 04:44:16 PM
1) Don't Know

2) You had to charge with DB, then UB + Button and then UF + button

I can't do it when I put the stick/pad on neutral, but if I do a full circle motion it always came out
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: KBlackNoah on December 07, 2011, 04:58:06 PM
2) You had to charge with DB, then UB + Button and then UF + button

why uf + b? or you can do like elisabeth ..after the first motion F+ button.I will try tho

le: sorry i see now on the 1 st page - i missed that.thanks
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 07, 2011, 06:43:33 PM
yo kbn, how many characters you beat trial mode with? also, wanna sell me 1 of your sticks?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: KBlackNoah on December 07, 2011, 07:20:04 PM
only with vice (it's the most accessible and not that hard to do)... i am struggling with elisabeth, iuri and leona right now and i have like the first 3-4 trials with almost all the characters.Only problem so far is learning and doing the shortcuts right - execution is not a problem and i find it very easy than older kofs - you just have to memorize a lot of bullshit for those trials LMAO

sorry but i do not sell any of my sticks.you should try the official hori store or matcatz - they ship to most of western europe and have discounts during streams.

i would recommend getting a hori vx sa or at least a te stick.

if i manage to do them all i expect some kind of nobel prize for wasting time with useless, fucking long and hard to memorize, hard to do combos

still very rewarding when you manage to finish the last trials of a character
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 07, 2011, 07:31:36 PM
yeah i think i  finished half of the casts trials along with my li bro.im actuallyimpressed about it myself since im using a ps3 pad and it sucks balls. like you said, memmorizing it is a bitch. my biggest problem is the analog, im having trouble canceling  ;dn ;up into  ;dn ;db ;bk on analog. i did these hd combos on a fucking laptop on kb and with  no trouble. analog blows for charge characters.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: KBlackNoah on December 07, 2011, 07:34:31 PM
i don t know how people adapted to the analog to play fighting games.That is too sensitive for me.Maybe an analog neo geo pad would be ok.Also i don t have so much time for kof xiii right now because of that karkand map pack LOL

My biggest problem is that i am used with
 ;a ;b
 ;c ;d

Layout and that doesn t work to well for advanced combos - i might try to switch to
 ;a ;c
 ;b ;d


Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Kane317 on December 07, 2011, 09:42:12 PM
I'm having the same problem, normally you could shortcut that by double tapping P. It usually cancels your dp into fireball. However Iori refuses, I'm at a loss as well.

That's because that shortcut only works in HD mode, refer to the Shortcut and buffering Quick Reference (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1701.msg38470#msg38470) (use the longcut instead).

Same issue with his  ;fd ;dn ;df +  ;c into  ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a it super cancel's into his can of whoop ass (not what it's called of course). Am I doing something wrong? Is there a quick, shortcut, or is it just all done in 1f like SF combo's?

To prevent the SC from happening, hold the df direction while doing the dp+C then do qcb+A and it'll prevent it from SC'ing.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: LouisCipher on December 08, 2011, 09:01:21 AM
Which characters have invincible attacks on wakeup that are not EX? Not counting supers obviously.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 08, 2011, 07:06:13 PM
i don t know how people adapted to the analog to play fighting games.That is too sensitive for me.Maybe an analog neo geo pad would be ok.

i dont have any other means you monkey, that's why i asked you to sell me one of your sticks. my lil bro is in japan till february, hes keeping an eye out for 1 of those neo usb pads, if he can find 1 (why the fuck are these laughable cheap quality easily breaking down but still best pads out there for execution in such limited numbers?

also kbn, dpad gives me blisters, must.... use.... analog, lol.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 08, 2011, 07:27:48 PM
The hell, Kula's lay spin eats up Haohshokohkens?

The guy did the lay spin and I did the super with Ryo. The twirly kick nullified the Haohshokohken (it vanished) and then she hit Ryo with the ice shard followup.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 08, 2011, 07:38:23 PM
Uh, exactly why are you firing HaohShokohkens at her anyway?  She can reflect those.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 08, 2011, 07:55:32 PM
Because the guy was abusing lay spins and I saw it coming?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 08, 2011, 08:31:55 PM
lol.

if true thats some straight up bs. maybe her high rayspin went over it and you thought it disaeared instead of being absorbed and you didnt notice it because of lag?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 08, 2011, 08:39:00 PM
Nope, she was actually very close to the ground when they made contact.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 08, 2011, 08:39:43 PM
Because the guy was abusing lay spins and I saw it coming?

Then why didn't you Ranbu?  If I'm not mistaken, his Ranbu should beat Layspin.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 08, 2011, 08:43:35 PM
Because I didn't think a ballerina kick would beat a huge ass fireball, probably.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: CCVengeance on December 09, 2011, 01:35:09 AM
So today I had a long online session.Played about 20 matches.
Of those I only won 3(lol)!All by my main team:Kensou,Beni,Maxima.
All the other where played with my new sub-team:Shen,Raiden,Mature.
Still,slowly but surely I'm seeing my mistakes and correcting them.
Man, I really love this game!

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on December 09, 2011, 02:18:33 PM
didnt want to post this in the shortcut thread cause i dont know if there is one but, there is a kula shortcut for dp into hcb x2 p or u just have to be very fast ?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Diavle on December 09, 2011, 03:38:11 PM
Someone should edit the thread title to let people know there are shortcuts etc in the first post.


didnt want to post this in the shortcut thread cause i dont know if there is one but, there is a kula shortcut for dp into hcb x2 p or u just have to be very fast ?


First post of the thread says that the DP can be done as "hcb~f" so for your purposes you should be able to do hcb~f+P, hcb+P to get the dp and super.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: Mazinkaiser on December 09, 2011, 05:57:45 PM
i'm the only one who didn't know the super (dm/nm) freeze block totally the input/buffer?

KoF XIII fuckin 'around with NM & DM freeze (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_G2q6GCF_4#ws)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Systems/Technical/Gameplay discussion
Post by: sociald on December 09, 2011, 10:54:04 PM
Someone should edit the thread title to let people know there are shortcuts etc in the first post.


didnt want to post this in the shortcut thread cause i dont know if there is one but, there is a kula shortcut for dp into hcb x2 p or u just have to be very fast ?


First post of the thread says that the DP can be done as "hcb~f" so for your purposes you should be able to do hcb~f+P, hcb+P to get the dp and super.

ouch didnt think about that way to do it
thanks
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Blake/White on December 10, 2011, 10:43:54 PM
Adding to DP shortcuts (posted this in the K' forum earlier but probably needs to be here too).

 ;fd ;dn ;fd ,  ;fd ;db ;fd ,  ;fd ;db ;df (the last one is just for completion, doubt that it has a practical use).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: DarKaoZ on December 11, 2011, 01:32:48 AM
Is there a shortcut for hcb-f+P?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Parapets on December 12, 2011, 12:38:05 PM
It has to be inputted either as 6246 or 6249 ( ;fd ;dn ;bk ;fd or ;fd ;dn ;bk ;uf), so the only "shortcut" you can really do is skip the diagonals, which is generally only useful on keyboard controls or similar.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 12, 2011, 06:40:39 PM
haven't played kof in a couple days. last time i was struggling with that vice trial with the air super, and that elizabeth trial, this fucking hoe. i read you posted that the command throw had to be done immediately afterthe ;dn ;df ;fd K, is it really that fucking hard or is my execution really this shit?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 12, 2011, 07:17:29 PM
I know I can't do it for shit.  It seems simple, but I don't freaking know.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Siren on December 12, 2011, 08:10:20 PM
It's quite funny, me and a couple of my friends were struggling with that Elizabeth trial like 4 in the morning. We woke up later that day and it was completed, none of us know who did it though lol.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Delta on December 12, 2011, 10:20:36 PM
It's quite funny, me and a couple of my friends were struggling with that Elizabeth trial like 4 in the morning. We woke up later that day and it was completed, none of us know who did it though lol.

*X-Files music*
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Ufgt on December 12, 2011, 11:17:33 PM
Yes, Elizabeth 2 is super absurd for how little you actually need to do. Just gotta do command grab REALLY FAST and from neutral. Sometimes, DP will come out because of shortcut.

It's a dumb trial.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Siren on December 13, 2011, 12:59:24 AM
I don't see much of a point to it anyway. If a trial looks remotely useless, I just move on.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: LouisCipher on December 13, 2011, 02:46:54 AM
I've gotten pretty comfortable with Clark's Neomax/Hyperdrive cancel. Doing anything but EX grab into Super and Neomax just isn't worth it with Clark though. Not that I'm complaining. Clark just needs to touch you once with 4 bars and that's easy 800 damage, 900 damage if he has 5 bars.

Cannot get the handle on Neo Max combos with my other 2 mains. I might switch to Claw Iori because his Neomax combos are easier than his Flame counterpart. Then there's Mr. Karate who looks BA but we shall see with him.

Billy's Raw Neomax is a really good AA too ;).
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Kane317 on December 13, 2011, 03:08:53 AM
It's quite funny, me and a couple of my friends were struggling with that Elizabeth trial like 4 in the morning. We woke up later that day and it was completed, none of us know who did it though lol.

LOL, I dunno why but I found this super funny.  Sounds like something that would happen to my friends and I.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Tropxe on December 13, 2011, 05:43:40 AM
Is it just me or do all trials start out sort of tricky, then get a lot easier, then at around #6 or #7 get harder and quickly become mind-meltingly difficult? It's more the early difficulty that stands out to me. In SSF4 I'd say there's a very smooth learning curve with the trials, and in BBCS from what I can remember.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 13, 2011, 05:52:18 AM
Yes, Elizabeth 2 is super absurd for how little you actually need to do. Just gotta do command grab REALLY FAST and from neutral. Sometimes, DP will come out because of shortcut.

It's a dumb trial.


ok i fixed my vice problem (sc way 2 early). last 2 trials of her still remaining.

gonna try to fix that liz dilemma now.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: DarKaoZ on December 13, 2011, 06:08:40 AM
^That is BioBooster translation: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1690.msg39327#msg39327 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1690.msg39327#msg39327)

It even says so in iplaywinner.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: MAASKYO on December 13, 2011, 06:41:32 AM
^That is BioBooster translation: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1690.msg39327#msg39327 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1690.msg39327#msg39327)

It even says so in iplaywinner.

i removed my post ...sorry for repeating..
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Nagare_Ryouma on December 13, 2011, 08:27:15 PM
I have to admit that I don´t really understand exactly how some of the shortcuts work.
For example, with Shen you can make qcf+P and leave K press to cancel geki-hen into tenrenken and viceversa.
But in some situations it just doesnt work, it thought it was a more consistent thing, but it is not, in some situations you just have to do it manually.
An example I found of this is the following:
HD mode: qcf+D (tenrenken) press A (geki), qcf+D (tenren) and the opponent goes into the air and now, 2 things can happen:
-if you make qcf+D and hit him really low, you press A and you get the geki and then repeat qcf+D
-if you make qcf+D and hit him higher, and press A the geki won´t come out.
In that situation there is not diferent in the attacks, the only difference is if you hit the opponent closer to the ground, but that shouldnt affect the shourtcut, regular tenrenken is a 1 hit attack and if it hits the cancel should come out right away, the geki would probably miss, but that is not the point. The point is there seem to be little things that make the shortcut "available" or not.


 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 13, 2011, 08:47:56 PM
I have to admit that I don´t really understand exactly how some of the shortcuts work.
 

same for me. yesterday with lizzy during her trials (i finally did do 2, but don't know how, switched from analog to d-pad.)

during her othe trials i noticed that doing a ;fd ;dn ;df ;a and quickly pressing ;a again willl cancel her dp without going into super. all of a sudden after a couple trials it didn't work anymore in HD mode. i noticed that doing ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;uf ;a did work, and after that it also stopped working. being happy with the shortcot i tried doing k's ;fd ;df ;dn ;a hold  ;fd press  ;c wasn't working either. some of these character shortcuts dont work properly or every time, i'd like to know if there's a certain criteria for it like how high you juggle or some other shit. not having all characters trials 100% is bugging me crazy.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: sociald on December 15, 2011, 04:04:27 PM
I have to admit that I don´t really understand exactly how some of the shortcuts work.
 

same for me. yesterday with lizzy during her trials (i finally did do 2, but don't know how, switched from analog to d-pad.)

during her othe trials i noticed that doing a ;fd ;dn ;df ;a and quickly pressing ;a again willl cancel her dp without going into super. all of a sudden after a couple trials it didn't work anymore in HD mode. i noticed that doing ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;uf ;a did work, and after that it also stopped working. being happy with the shortcot i tried doing k's ;fd ;df ;dn ;a hold  ;fd press  ;c wasn't working either. some of these character shortcuts dont work properly or every time, i'd like to know if there's a certain criteria for it like how high you juggle or some other shit. not having all characters trials 100% is bugging me crazy.

lizzy is so weird. i noticed somethign strange too for example i cant DC her dp A or C if it is comboed after C fB, or at least it requires a different timing respect the usual dp DC.
the shortcut i use is simply dp then go neutral and press f.AC or just keeping f. after the dp and then AC but this way it wont come out after C f.B.i think maybe is it depending by the timing and if the opponents is very close to the ground ? and just after that combo it is not at the right height ? in any ither situation i can DC it very easily but not that way
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 15, 2011, 07:21:51 PM
same problem as me, i could do it and the shortcut worked, till i tried it in hd combos and after  ;c ;fd ;b, shit dont work no more. im gonna try that other guys shortcuts, ;fd ;db ;fd than cancel that into  ;dn ;df ;fd.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Kane317 on December 16, 2011, 12:48:42 AM
I have to admit that I don´t really understand exactly how some of the shortcuts work.
For example, with Shen you can make qcf+P and leave K press to cancel geki-hen into tenrenken and viceversa.
But in some situations it just doesnt work, it thought it was a more consistent thing, but it is not, in some situations you just have to do it manually.
An example I found of this is the following:
HD mode: qcf+D (tenrenken) press A (geki), qcf+D (tenren) and the opponent goes into the air and now, 2 things can happen:
-if you make qcf+D and hit him really low, you press A and you get the geki and then repeat qcf+D
-if you make qcf+D and hit him higher, and press A the geki won´t come out.
In that situation there is not diferent in the attacks, the only difference is if you hit the opponent closer to the ground, but that shouldnt affect the shourtcut, regular tenrenken is a 1 hit attack and if it hits the cancel should come out right away, the geki would probably miss, but that is not the point. The point is there seem to be little things that make the shortcut "available" or not.

The reason is very simple: it's not about the height that's disabling your shortcut, it's more about your buffer time.  The time it takes from inputting your qcf.D to the time you press A (hitting late or high) would have erased your qcf motion buffer time.  Do it early and you'll still have the qcf motion buffered.

Same thing with Liz's dp+A --> [DC] qcf+A cancels; it'll work for her dp+A but not her dp+C since the move is slower and you'll lose the buffer.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Diavle on December 16, 2011, 03:39:07 PM
Been watching some arcade vids and the difference in building meter when getting hit compared to the console version is really something.

Like in one of the console Dune matches posted the guy landed a HD combo on him but due to that combo Dune was able to build enough meter to HD combo him right back at the very start of the next. Basically the guy's downfall was the HD combo he pulled the previous round.

In a Kim combo that was posted (which used a whole bunch of air QCF+BD to keep the combo going), the opponent built almost an entire HD guage and 3 bars just thanks to that combo.

Is this making you guys reconsider what combos to use?

Also, started using the 1 frame back dash addition a little. Its very interesting for sure, came in very useful against a Clark user and a few other situations.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: JuiceboxAbel on December 17, 2011, 01:08:29 AM
I'm hoping to take a more active role in discussions about this game to further my own understanding of it. Glad to see you guys are active.

Did any of you catch my offline play on Neomaxico? You can catch the archive at
twitch.tv/neomaxico

I'm hoping for a critique. Currently my team is King/Andy/Robert so that I can grasp the fundamentals and apply them across all 3 characters more or less the same. I already know I need work on Andy and Robert's HD combos, though I would like suggestions for what their HD combos should be in general.

I think my experience with SF makes playing King really intuitive for me. I'm pretty sure she'll be first on my tournament team. Totally open to switching the others, so right now I'm learning more characters to see what playstyles I like. Probably going to learn Hwa next, I hear he's GDLK.

tl;dr

first post, hi guys, critique my play plz, keep the scene alive
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 17, 2011, 02:03:15 AM
Well Juicebox, welcome to DC.  You picked a slightly meh time to come asking for critique just because some of the best on DC will be busy with SoCal Regionals all weekend, but meh.

When I have spare moment (in other words, too tired or annoyed to play KOFXIII at the moment) I'll watch the archive and try to help out as best as I can.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Blake/White on December 17, 2011, 02:11:33 AM
Been watching some arcade vids and the difference in building meter when getting hit compared to the console version is really something.

Like in one of the console Dune matches posted the guy landed a HD combo on him but due to that combo Dune was able to build enough meter to HD combo him right back at the very start of the next. Basically the guy's downfall was the HD combo he pulled the previous round.

In a Kim combo that was posted (which used a whole bunch of air QCF+BD to keep the combo going), the opponent built almost an entire HD guage and 3 bars just thanks to that combo.

Is this making you guys reconsider what combos to use?

Also, started using the 1 frame back dash addition a little. Its very interesting for sure, came in very useful against a Clark user and a few other situations.

Was thinking about this earlier. Maybe stick to just regular Drive cancel combos and save HD combos for the very last character for a one hit kill opportunity. Probably the best anchors now will be characters who have strong combos that only require 50% Drive and still have access to HD combos that can KO instantly. I bet Hwa Jai will be a really powerful choice for an anchor now.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on December 17, 2011, 02:18:59 AM
Hwa Jai is a ridiculous anchor right now.  Helps that a lot of his strings are safe.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Blake/White on December 17, 2011, 07:11:29 PM
Yeah, I messed around with him a little and his damage is just crazy. Simple stuff that hurts. Doing an easy 40% off of a hop attack anywhere on the screen for just one stock is kinda scary. Funny how that one change to Dragon Backbreaker made such a difference.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: MUSOLINI on December 17, 2011, 08:21:22 PM
I'm hoping to take a more active role in discussions about this game to further my own understanding of it. Glad to see you guys are active.

Did any of you catch my offline play on Neomaxico? You can catch the archive at
twitch.tv/neomaxico

I'm hoping for a critique. Currently my team is King/Andy/Robert so that I can grasp the fundamentals and apply them across all 3 characters more or less the same. I already know I need work on Andy and Robert's HD combos, though I would like suggestions for what their HD combos should be in general.

I think my experience with SF makes playing King really intuitive for me. I'm pretty sure she'll be first on my tournament team. Totally open to switching the others, so right now I'm learning more characters to see what playstyles I like. Probably going to learn Hwa next, I hear he's GDLK.

tl;dr

first post, hi guys, critique my play plz, keep the scene alive

dont have timeright now, but king is a good choice for you if your familiar with sf. robert and andyare allsoreally good, but like yousaid their worthwhil hd combostake time to learn. i think youd do well with zoning characters at first cause you come from a sf bg, characters like ash, king, kim, duo long. duo and kimmight be too tough thouh at first, a lot of characters actually take time to master and own with. its not like you can pick rog or blanka and ease through your good matchups by holding  ;db. problem with 13 is that if you really wanna use a character effectivelly and be good with them, you actuallyneed to master a lot of shit like hd combos, activating them from lows, dc combos and all other shit you need  to learn with every other fighter. your luc is that king is highly easy, effective and can easily combo in hd.

ill check some vids when i gotthe time.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Raynex on December 19, 2011, 11:40:55 AM
I'm hoping to take a more active role in discussions about this game to further my own understanding of it. Glad to see you guys are active.

Did any of you catch my offline play on Neomaxico? You can catch the archive at
twitch.tv/neomaxico

I'm hoping for a critique. Currently my team is King/Andy/Robert so that I can grasp the fundamentals and apply them across all 3 characters more or less the same. I already know I need work on Andy and Robert's HD combos, though I would like suggestions for what their HD combos should be in general.

I think my experience with SF makes playing King really intuitive for me. I'm pretty sure she'll be first on my tournament team. Totally open to switching the others, so right now I'm learning more characters to see what playstyles I like. Probably going to learn Hwa next, I hear he's GDLK.

tl;dr

first post, hi guys, critique my play plz, keep the scene alive

Welcome to DC Juicebox! I've been curious about how your crossover from the SF series has been going. I'll definitely give your matches a watch. No doubt you'll learn this game in no time!

Interestingly enough I also play Abel, AND main King :). I'm finding success in running King on point as well. The issue is that so many characters use meter on 2nd/3rd position better than King does, and I think her neutral game is her real strength. Basic zoning and corner pressure builds meter faster than most people realize, and she needs minimal bar to turn a corner hit into good damage. Her option tree really expands once you become familiar with her corner lockdown game.
(i.e.: [corner] st.D (or cr.Bx2, st.B) df+D, hcb+B, dp+B [DC] qcf+BD, qcf+Bx2, cr.C (385 dmg+ Reset, 1 Bar 50% Drive)

But anyways, on the topic on HD combos for Robert:

Robert's midscreen HD combos are spacing dependant and can get pretty tricky, so I recommend learning his corner combos first. It will help get you familiarized with timing common DCs and make executing all of his combos easier later on. Here's a great HD combo to start with:

Robert, 2 Bar + HD Mode

[Corner] cl.C, f+B (or cr.B, cr.A, f+B):

[HD activate] cl.C, f+B, dp+D (2 hits) [DC] air qcb+D, [*delay* dp+C [DC] qcf+P, dp+A (DC) qcb+D (whiff)]x2, dp+C [DC] f,b,f+K OR xx qcf,hcb+BD aka NeoMax

No bar ender - DP [DC] f,b,f+K = 650 damage
2 Bar ender - DP xx NeoMax = 820 damage

*The delay before the dp+C is imperative. It makes it so your opponent drops low enough for the fireball to hit after DCing the dp+C. Also, DP xx NeoMax can be input as  ;fd ;dn ;df   ;c ;dn ;db ;bk ;b ;d

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: sogos on December 21, 2011, 01:46:35 AM
Im new to KOF but I have a strong GG background. This game is fucking AMAZING but I have some questions

I'm looking effective zoning characters, not necessarily "keepaway" but someone who can pressure with their footsies/good normals. I've found and have had success with King, are they any other characters who play like her?
which characters are strong regardless of meter?
is there a "fishing" character? That is, someone who relies on the opponent making a mistake or fishing for counterhits
who overall has the best normals? mainly im looking for whoever has the most +frame advantage on block on most normals
who has the BIGGEST normals?

thaaaaaanks
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Running Wild on December 21, 2011, 01:54:46 AM
I would recommend Robert, Andy, Athena and EX Iori.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: solidshark on December 21, 2011, 03:52:10 AM
Im new to KOF but I have a strong GG background. This game is fucking AMAZING but I have some questions

I concur with RW's recommendations right now.

Welcome to the site btw
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: sogos on December 21, 2011, 04:06:21 AM
great game
friendly and seemingly active community
it makes me sad that kof isnt HUGE in the US. KOF for EVO, make it happen

thanks for the advice guys, ex iori is solid. im rolling with benom stripe/iori 98/SAIFAAAAAA right now, in that order, any other suggestions?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: solidshark on December 21, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
Might try looking into Mai, Ash, Ralf and Hwa too. Mai espeically will take work, but lots of Japanese players have been showing me some of her ways to get in with her. Ash is potentially the best zoner to me if you take advantage of his Ventose (charge projectile) and Genee. Ralf's Cs and Ds are strong standing, crouching or jumping, and Hwa's CD is my favorite as it catches everyone off guard; it's more of a hop compared to Joe's.

Basically, I'll say look into the entire cast if you can, and don't be afraid to change playstyles and strategies. Sampling Chin a lot more, and know I'm going to have to do new things to play him like other great Chin players.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Raynex on December 21, 2011, 08:08:34 AM
great game
friendly and seemingly active community
it makes me sad that kof isnt HUGE in the US. KOF for EVO, make it happen

thanks for the advice guys, ex iori is solid. im rolling with benom stripe/iori 98/SAIFAAAAAA right now, in that order, any other suggestions?

Hopefully this game will blow up in NA. It has a great following down here in Toronto already! Our first KOF tournament outnumbered UMvC3/AE in terms of entrants. We got the majority of the hype as well as great reception from the crowd. Great game indeed.

I really think you're team would benefit from a more meter efficient order. Athena/King/Iori would be best imo (Saifaaa IS Athena right? haha). Out of the three, Athena and Iori are best on point. You also need a strong anchor who can open your opponent up to translate your stocked meter into dead characters. Iori has an overhead, command grab, cross-up, DP, fireball, and hit confirmable rekkas. So many ways to go into HD combos + a great neutral game. Athena is great on point because her zoning game requires zero meter is VERY effective. King is great 1st OR 2nd, but Athena outclasses her on point with arguably the best zoning in the game. By virtue of Iori being best out of the 3 on anchor, and Athena being better than King on point, placing King second works well and doesn't take anything any from your team.

Give Athena/King/Iori a try and see how it goes. It'll give your meter more utility during end game, and take advantage of both Athena's strong meter build and Iori's offense.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: sogos on December 21, 2011, 08:52:45 AM
haha saifaaaa is yuri

yeah king is definitely my point character, with yuri and iori98 fighting for anchor. I'm not sure which one of them is more effective without meter and belong in the 2nd spot if I ever get into a situation where my 1st character doesn't build enough meter through getting rushed down or being forced to spend meter for a kill or whatever
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: BioBooster on December 22, 2011, 01:46:35 AM
Hopefully this game will blow up in NA. It has a great following down here in Toronto already! Our first KOF tournament outnumbered UMvC3/AE in terms of entrants. We got the majority of the hype as well as great reception from the crowd. Great game indeed.

Awesome \(^o^)/
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Diavle on December 22, 2011, 07:01:17 AM
Fresh out of practice mode, turns out Robert can HD bypass a raw neomax when performed in the air.

So you can essentially do an air neomax at the cost of HD and 2 power bars.

Wonder if it works with other characters who can perform their neomax in the air.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: BioBooster on December 22, 2011, 07:19:26 AM
^That is an awesome find.

So for Robert is it jump > NM with BCD?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Diavle on December 22, 2011, 12:10:06 PM
^That is an awesome find.

So for Robert is it jump > NM with BCD?

Yep.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Mazinkaiser on December 22, 2011, 12:50:48 PM
Wonder if it works with other characters who can perform their neomax in the air.

Andy?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Diavle on December 22, 2011, 01:11:14 PM
Wonder if it works with other characters who can perform their neomax in the air.

Andy?

Mai, King, Yuri and Chin as well I think.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: JuiceboxAbel on December 23, 2011, 08:04:46 PM
I played some KOF last night on the neomaxico stream. Can you guys critique my play please?

http://t.co/Alx8yKF (http://t.co/Alx8yKF) 23:30 until end
http://t.co/G1TqSy6 (http://t.co/G1TqSy6) 59:50 until 84:00

I'd really appreciate it!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: GoldenGlove on December 23, 2011, 09:02:05 PM
I don't know what critique there is to offer for vids of you beating up on people who don't know how to play.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: JuiceboxAbel on December 23, 2011, 10:16:43 PM
I don't know what critique there is to offer for vids of you beating up on people who don't know how to play.

Probably just watch the matches with git_thrown in the 2nd video then, lol.

Yeah, they're still learning.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: oricon on December 24, 2011, 07:53:57 PM
How do i drive cancel Kyos command grab into his dp without his orochinagi coming out.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Running Wild on December 24, 2011, 08:58:24 PM
You need to return to neutral before inputting the dp, that should do the trick.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Ash on December 27, 2011, 02:43:32 PM
I don't know what critique there is to offer for vids of you beating up on people who don't know how to play.

Probably just watch the matches with git_thrown in the 2nd video then, lol.

Yeah, they're still learning.

Seems like you have a lot of practice with your offense since you're playing against players that you have no problem with. You'll probably need more help with defense and zoning against better players, but we would need videos of you having matches with players closer to your level or better.

Other than that, general gameplay is overall good, but some things I did notice.

- Probably shouldn't use sweeps as often. A player with stronger offense will notice and you'll get hopped in on and combo'd
- Didn't see much use of air CD attacks. They generally have high priority and will beat out anti air normals if you control the distance of the attacks correctly. Another thing is that move has the longest blockstun, useful for pressure. Counter hits will allow you to juggle further, so you'll need to get used to the appropriate follow-up combos.
- Meter management was ok, but could be better. Generally I see most people get full drive meter, but don't seem to use it for a while. In a game against a player that actually has very good meter management, you'll want to make sure you use your gauge while their's is full before they do. If you land an HD combo first, they'll have to play catch up and burn their meter, thereby filling yours quickly. Probably one of those most important factors in a game where players around the same level who can both land full HD combos.

Let us know when you have matches that you have close games or losing games. I'm sure there would be much more help we can provide you with.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: oricon on December 27, 2011, 09:03:19 PM
how do you DC Leona's moon slasher into grand saber
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: 4leaf on December 27, 2011, 11:56:58 PM
charge 1~7 a/c, 4~6 b/d.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: FataCon on December 28, 2011, 12:30:03 AM
how do you DC Leona's moon slasher into grand saber

Shortcut on 1st page.

charge 1~7 a/c, 4~6 b/d.

You don't have to hit 4 since the 7 is storing the charge, remember? ;)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: 4leaf on December 28, 2011, 02:26:04 AM
true. i just said 4~6 since that's how i do it haha.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: oricon on December 28, 2011, 03:15:02 AM
Thanks guys still trying to do it, really difficult on pad :(
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: the7k on December 31, 2011, 04:08:10 AM
I played on pad for years until this game. Just 2xHCB motions required me to change,  while is strange considering I mained Clark in XII. It was just easier in that game on a pad than this one.

In any case, I felt now was the best time to switch. So many noobs in the community now, it makes it easier to fit in with my lack of execution.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: PhillyHigh on January 02, 2012, 09:56:05 PM
I know this is pretty noob question for me to ask but can you only cancels supers into neos during Hyper Drive?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on January 02, 2012, 10:02:48 PM
I know this is pretty noob question for me to ask but can you only cancels supers into neos during Hyper Drive?

Correct.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: pablofsi on January 11, 2012, 02:34:00 AM
Use dp + strong punch, up-forward + weak punch to do NESTS Kyo's trials.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Roland on January 14, 2012, 03:28:33 PM
Hi guys,
This will be my first post on this forum.  I've been playing this game for a while.  I'm finding it difficult to open up patient players with the characters without command grabs.  I play against some people who I can rarely bait button presses and can always block my hops jump ins and target combos.  Due to the grab invulnerablity after block stun, I find it difficult to tick grab.  This forces me to get damage from footies and zoning which, honesty I don't find as satisfying as HD combo rape or do risky stuff like empty jump to a low.  What are some tricks for landing target combos?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: DarKaoZ on January 14, 2012, 10:03:42 PM
Hi guys,
This will be my first post on this forum.  I've been playing this game for a while.  I'm finding it difficult to open up patient players with the characters without command grabs.  I play against some people who I can rarely bait button presses and can always block my hops jump ins and target combos.  Due to the grab invulnerablity after block stun, I find it difficult to tick grab.  This forces me to get damage from footies and zoning which, honesty I don't find as satisfying as HD combo rape or do risky stuff like empty jump to a low.  What are some tricks for landing target combos?

Do the same
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: JennyCage on January 14, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
Hi guys,
This will be my first post on this forum.  I've been playing this game for a while.  I'm finding it difficult to open up patient players with the characters without command grabs.  I play against some people who I can rarely bait button presses and can always block my hops jump ins and target combos.  Due to the grab invulnerablity after block stun, I find it difficult to tick grab.  This forces me to get damage from footies and zoning which, honesty I don't find as satisfying as HD combo rape or do risky stuff like empty jump to a low.  What are some tricks for landing target combos?

You can always do an empty hop into throw (regular or command).  Short hop X -> empty short hop throw works good on most people.  That's not really a combo though (unless you're Beni or Kensou in the corner).

Probably the best way to "open people up" is getting good at short hop pressure in general, combining quick overheads with the empty hop into low/throw.  The faster and more reliably you can mixup your highs and lows, the more chance the opponent has of messing up a block.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Aenthin on January 18, 2012, 03:56:17 AM
Does anyone else have an overhead to overhead attack? That is, a jumping normal to an overhead command/special. All I know is that Mai (j.d+B), Kim (j.qcb+K) and Ralf (j.qcf+P) have these. It doesn't have to knockdown though.

Edit: Oh and it doesn't have to combo. It just has to be another overhead for mixup purposes.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Rex Dart on January 23, 2012, 09:40:44 PM
@Aenthin: I think that's everyone.

I have a quick question. You can't Drive Cancel on a guarding opponent, but what about on guard point?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: BioBooster on January 24, 2012, 03:57:21 PM
No DC against guard point either. Can loop clark's B sab to test against.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Aenthin on January 24, 2012, 04:59:41 PM
@Aenthin: I think that's everyone.

Oh? Well darn. I was thinking there might be more. lol
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: TrulyAmiracle on January 27, 2012, 02:59:05 PM
Quick question, is it not possible to do an immediate roll on wake-up?
I've had a few situations where the opponent would do a meaty and I'd try to roll as soon as i get up but nothing comes out and I eat the meaty, just wanna know if the game just doesnt let u roll for a few frames when u get up or was it just me messing up the timing/input.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on January 27, 2012, 04:11:07 PM
Quick question, is it not possible to do an immediate roll on wake-up?
I've had a few situations where the opponent would do a meaty and I'd try to roll as soon as i get up but nothing comes out and I eat the meaty, just wanna know if the game just doesnt let u roll for a few frames when u get up or was it just me messing up the timing/input.

You probably did, but they timed it so that they'd do it on the first frame of your wake-up. We're also not aware if rolling has start-up frames and if you're invincible through those frames as well.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: MaruchanSoup on February 07, 2012, 07:28:35 PM
Quick question, is it not possible to do an immediate roll on wake-up?
I've had a few situations where the opponent would do a meaty and I'd try to roll as soon as i get up but nothing comes out and I eat the meaty, just wanna know if the game just doesnt let u roll for a few frames when u get up or was it just me messing up the timing/input.

You probably did, but they timed it so that they'd do it on the first frame of your wake-up. We're also not aware if rolling has start-up frames and if you're invincible through those frames as well.


That being said, is it possible to backdash right as you are waking up to escape meaties?
or does backdash not have any invincibility?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Reiki.Kito on February 07, 2012, 08:07:02 PM
Well, you can backdash the moment you get up. You'll get hit, but you're considered airborne on the first frame. You can avoid being thrown and jump some deep lows, but the good part is that if they hit you with a normal, you just get knocked down to the floor which does give you some invulnerability.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: oricon on February 07, 2012, 08:42:03 PM
How do you punish ralfs dive punch, i use nests kyo, kensou and k
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on February 07, 2012, 09:00:33 PM
...Run up and punish.  Unless he spaced it EXTREMELY well, it's not a hard punish.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: hiltzy85 on February 07, 2012, 10:08:54 PM
has anybody ever figured out the frames for Iori's qcb+B (or D) on hit?  I know that qcb+B is like -3 or -4 on block, but pushes you back out of range of a lot of things so it can't really be punished except by really really fast stuff, and that qcb+D is even less negative than that, but I am interested to know how much advantage it gives Iori on hit. 
Is it actually better for me to end short strings with qcb+B (to keep them standing and at possible disadvantage) or should I just use qcb+C (for the extra damage/meter plus knockdown)?
For example, if I hit with qcb+B at the end of a small combo, and do a cl.C right after, am I going to get stuff by somebody mashing out a DP with Kyo or something?  It wouldn't surprise me if 1f grabs could get me after it if I try to attack, but if I suspect they are going to do that, I could just hop instead of pressing a button...

Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Diavle on February 08, 2012, 04:07:29 AM
How do you punish ralfs dive punch, i use nests kyo, kensou and k

Can't speak for nests Kyo since I didn't buy him (though he has autoguard all over the place so...) but for Kensou ex super and ex qcf+K work well. For K its qcb+D if he's within range and qcf qcf+P super. These are on block. Its best to just roll forward when you see it coming for an easier punish.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: hiltzy85 on February 09, 2012, 05:31:46 PM
Has anybody else noticed incidences of King's NeoMax hitting more than 15 times (IE doing more than 450 damage)?  I hyperhopped in on somebody yesterday in a match and did a bare Neo Max with King, and it got 19 hits (for I guess 570 damage).  I couldn't tell you for sure what the position of the person was, or if it was a counter hit or something, or if they had left the ground right before getting hit, but it did a bunch of extra damage.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: oricon on February 11, 2012, 01:22:26 AM
Any good way to deal with takuma players who keep spamming his flying kick?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: hiltzy85 on February 11, 2012, 03:08:59 AM
Can't you just block it and punish him?  I can't imagine that it's safe on block
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: oricon on February 11, 2012, 04:23:40 AM
I think its safe on block.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: hiltzy85 on February 11, 2012, 06:19:38 AM
you must at least be able to throw him after blocking it.  The B version might be safe, but I'd be very surprised if the D version was as well
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Saitsuofleaves on February 11, 2012, 06:28:01 AM
you must at least be able to throw him after blocking it.  The B version might be safe, but I'd be very surprised if the D version was as well

Throwing isn't a very good punish seeing as how you can still throw tech during recovery.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Cibernetico on March 22, 2012, 03:13:53 AM
Hey guys, if you care to know, Justin Wong just said that out of all the fighting games this generation, he considers KOF13 to be the best overall out of all of them in a talk show at http://www.twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming (http://www.twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: BioBooster on March 22, 2012, 03:43:32 AM
Thanks for the post, that's definitely interesting. Will check this out.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Proto Cloud on March 25, 2012, 08:27:06 PM
Hey guys, if you care to know, Justin Wong just said that out of all the fighting games this generation, he considers KOF13 to be the best overall out of all of them in a talk show at http://www.twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming (http://www.twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming)

I wouldn't be surprised he'd say something like that. The guy knows quality and plays a lot of fighters. Problem is that KOF isn't paying out as big as Capcom games yet.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Atb_555 on March 26, 2012, 12:57:59 AM
Hey guys, if you care to know, Justin Wong just said that out of all the fighting games this generation, he considers KOF13 to be the best overall out of all of them in a talk show at http://www.twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming (http://www.twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming)

Yo which vid are you referring to?  I was listening to Down Four Cast Ep. 2 Part 2 but they were ranting about MK. 
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: BioBooster on March 26, 2012, 01:18:15 AM
Yeah was a rant/winge-fest pretty much throughout, couldn't find the bit where jwong made those comments, will take your word for it though. Any other talk was pretty much drowned out by empire tales or triforce opinions and people reacting to that.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: LouisCipher on April 03, 2012, 07:02:49 AM
Finally caught the MLG finals with Mr KOF and Bala. Good shit. Little disappointed Bala dropped Clark for Shen but Kyo/Iori can give Clark a lot of trouble, he should've used Clark's j.B because it counters a lot of their hops.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: Kane317 on April 03, 2012, 06:56:57 PM
Finally caught the MLG finals with Mr KOF and Bala. Good shit. Little disappointed Bala dropped Clark for Shen but Kyo/Iori can give Clark a lot of trouble, he should've used Clark's j.B because it counters a lot of their hops.

Not the way Mr. Kof was using Kyo and Iori, their j.B, j.Cs (w/ jump speed included) will beat out Clark's j.B.  You gotta give Mr. Kof and Bala a little more credit than that.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: LouisCipher on April 04, 2012, 12:35:54 AM
Finally caught the MLG finals with Mr KOF and Bala. Good shit. Little disappointed Bala dropped Clark for Shen but Kyo/Iori can give Clark a lot of trouble, he should've used Clark's j.B because it counters a lot of their hops.

Not the way Mr. Kof was using Kyo and Iori, their j.B, j.Cs (w/ jump speed included) will beat out Clark's j.B.  You gotta give Mr. Kof and Bala a little more credit than that.

Not trying to belittle the efforts of either. In my experience Clark's j.B was a good tool to use against them. What would you suggest is Clark's best air to air tool against Kyo/Iori/Beni?
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: Reiki.Kito on April 04, 2012, 12:42:01 AM
In my opinion, Kyo, Iori, and Benimaru have some of the best air-to-air normals. Clark's jumb B is nice and vertical, but it's not going to out beat them in the air. It's just great that they're not like K' and get free combos off of air-to-airs.

Anyway, I don't play Clark, can't say I know a lot about him, but if you hop back and just poke them with the tip  with a CD or a jump B, wouldn't that work as well? Also what about his jump D? It's got a pretty horizontal hitbox as well as a bit over him as well.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: LouisCipher on April 04, 2012, 01:09:51 AM
You have to get in as Clark, you can't let them control the air and keep you out because his AA game isn't that good. Jump back CD is okay but it'll put you in the corner and because of quick roll you can't really capitalize on it. Only other choice is to play the footsie game and out-poke them with Clark's s.D or do Charge Punch if you have Yomi.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: Tyrant292 on April 04, 2012, 06:37:01 PM
the earthquake made everybody crazy

Yeah it tends to do that to people :P.

Anyways, from my experience with Clark the more pressure and mind games are applied against him the more his options are closed; considering Kyo, Iori and Benimaro you (can throw K' in also) which they are excellent at applying pressure and they have options, Clark will struggle against them. In my personal opinion BALA knew exactly what to do but i'd prefer if he stuck with Clark; it would have been more interesting for us viewers.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: Diavle on April 04, 2012, 06:54:34 PM
Anyways, from my experience with Clark the more pressure and mind games are applied against him the more his options are closed; considering Kyo, Iori and Benimaro you (can throw K' in also) which they are excellent at applying pressure and they have options, Clark will struggle against them. In my personal opinion BALA knew exactly what to do but i'd prefer if he stuck with Clark; it would have been more interesting for us viewers.

I find his adjustments interesting, he sits there thinks deep and usually just makes one change but that one change pays of big for him. He loses to MastaCJ and then takes Joe for OCVs, he loses to Combofiend and then picks K' for an OCV. He made a similar adjustment against Reynald by picking Shen instead of Clark to shut down Mr. Karate when the character was new.
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: Killey on April 04, 2012, 07:19:23 PM
Anyways, from my experience with Clark the more pressure and mind games are applied against him the more his options are closed; considering Kyo, Iori and Benimaro you (can throw K' in also) which they are excellent at applying pressure and they have options, Clark will struggle against them. In my personal opinion BALA knew exactly what to do but i'd prefer if he stuck with Clark; it would have been more interesting for us viewers.

With $6000 on the line nobody would care about whether it was entertaining for the viewers or not. It's always going to be play to win in those circumstances and I respect whatever decision he goes with.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Kane317 on April 04, 2012, 09:07:27 PM
You have to get in as Clark, you can't let them control the air and keep you out because his AA game isn't that good. Jump back CD is okay but it'll put you in the corner and because of quick roll you can't really capitalize on it. Only other choice is to play the footsie game and out-poke them with Clark's s.D or do Charge Punch if you have Yomi.

Yeah, but you sometimes don't always have the choice to capitalize on every air-to-air.  Sometimes jumping back D, jumping back/vertical CD (depending on position) is the only thing you can do.  Air throw is the best choice but once again depends on the situation.  

Against a rabid attacking Iori or Kyo j.B probably isn't the best choice of action.  Just reposition yourself first with back dashes, or a carefully calculated roll and then chose which normal to use (if they're 1-2 characters away, far D stuffs hops well but if they're too close it's not going to work etc).
Title: Re: KOF XIII 7th General Thread: MLG Status edition
Post by: Tyrant292 on April 04, 2012, 09:39:14 PM
I find his adjustments interesting, he sits there thinks deep and usually just makes one change but that one change pays of big for him. He loses to MastaCJ and then takes Joe for OCVs, he loses to Combofiend and then picks K' for an OCV. He made a similar adjustment against Reynald by picking Shen instead of Clark to shut down Mr. Karate when the character was new.


Yeah, BALA always surprises me and entertains me. Just by changing one character he changes the whole game. Well, I hope I could be as good as him one day :P.

With $6000 on the line nobody would care about whether it was entertaining for the viewers or not. It's always going to be play to win in those circumstances and I respect whatever decision he goes with.


I was talking about my point of view as a viewer but from his perspective, yeah of course he wouldnt care, I wouldnt expect him to care really, as you said 6000$ are on the line and of course I respect his decision. He is playing on a professional level after all; all his decisions regarding his characters should be respected as it is his choice.


Yeah, but you sometimes don't always have the choice to capitalize on every air-to-air.  Sometimes jumping back D, jumping back/vertical CD (depending on position) is the only thing you can do.  Air throw is the best choice but once again depends on the situation. 

Against a rabid attacking Iori or Kyo j.B probably isn't the best choice of action.  Just reposition yourself first with back dashes, or a carefully calculated roll and then chose which normal to use (if they're 1-2 characters away, far D stuffs hops well but if they're too close it's not going to work etc).


Would that be easy to do or hard? I am asking but my thought is (because I play against him a lot) it would be tough for him considering they have very good pressure play, high options and his maneuverability is not as good as theirs.

BTW Kane, I saw your match against Mr.KoF; You ROCK man, your the only Chin player I saw.

Respect.   
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: KnightKinetik on July 17, 2012, 02:35:28 AM
(Apologies in advance for deviating away from your MLG/EVO talk, but I was told it was best to post this here)

So the other day I was messing around with dp into fireball drive cancel and with a little work going around the cast of characters found that the shortcut dp+p~p works with other characters besides Liz outside of HD mode (and with other buttons besides p and in different combinations i.e. dp+lp~hk, lp~hp, hp~lp, etc)

The method I used to get this was doing the dp motion (or rdp) and then quickly doing the combination of attack buttons (think of the timing/speed as that of double clicking on your mouse)

Characters and what I've been able to get: (Note that whether the moves connect or game viability was not the goal, but to see if the method worked)

- Ryo (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp)
- Robert (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp)
- Mr Karate (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp)
- K' (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp & dragon punch xdcx dash = pk)
- Kyo (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp & dragon punch xdcx qcf+k = pk)
- Yuri (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp & dragon punch xdcx qcf+kl = pk (Only happened once, but got dp+k every other time so it's too inconsistent))
- Kula (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp (C ver only it seems))
- Saiki (dp+k xdcx fireball = kp)
- Flame Iori (dragon punch xdcx fireball = pp (Got to do the double tap faster than the others imo, feels inconsistent)
- Andy (dragon punch xdcx elbow using f,db,f+p~p (No matter the combination of strengths won't connect :P)
- Chin (qcb+p xdcx drink using rdp+p~p (don't know why, but qcb out prioritizes drink)
- Athena (dragon punch xdcx teleport = pk))
- Benimaru (dp+k xdcx air fireball using dp+k~p (delay the p just a fraction more than with the others. doesn't seem to do xdcx into ground fireball))
- Ex Kyo (dragon punch xdcx qcf+k = pk (pp for xdcx in rekka doesn't seem to work))
- Kensou (rdp+k xdcx fireball = kp)

I feel like this shouldn't be too hard for people to confirm for themselves, but I might try and make a video of it at some point and get it up to show it.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: DarKaoZ on July 17, 2012, 05:35:01 AM
^ Nice find, surprised that this method actually works.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: desmond_kof on May 30, 2013, 09:33:22 PM
There is no such thing as "Trip Guard Anti-Air" people. Trip Guard doesn't exist in KOF which is why you can anti-air people with low profiling low attacks. Trip Guard means to GUARD the TRIP.

I made the mistake of saying this awhile back:

http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=2194.msg54082#msg54082 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=2194.msg54082#msg54082)

So, please. Stop calling it "trip guard anti-air". We might front page this if needed.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: marchefelix on September 27, 2013, 09:19:00 PM
@ 1:15

SBR 2.5 KOFXIII GF DB ToXY vs SL Burnout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A-TiHbJEaM#)

You can't sweep someone after bringing them to their knees (crumble)?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Running Wild on September 28, 2013, 03:44:26 AM
There is no such thing as "Trip Guard Anti-Air" people.

I want to know where the fuck this "Trip Guard Anti-Air" thing started. I saw it on SRK's wiki awhile back and all I could do was shake my head.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: azunadrop on October 01, 2013, 06:50:16 PM
You can't sweep someone after bringing them to their knees (crumble)?

Karate waited too long and missed the window of opportunity to hit Maxima.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Mr.Minionman on October 02, 2013, 09:33:03 PM
There is no such thing as "Trip Guard Anti-Air" people. Trip Guard doesn't exist in KOF which is why you can anti-air people with low profiling low attacks. Trip Guard means to GUARD the TRIP.

I made the mistake of saying this awhile back:

http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=2194.msg54082#msg54082 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=2194.msg54082#msg54082)

So, please. Stop calling it "trip guard anti-air". We might front page this if needed.

I known that was wrong for awhile, but I'm not sure what else to call it. Does it even have another term?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: desmond_kof on October 02, 2013, 09:56:42 PM
Some people say 'low profile' or even just 'trip anti-air' without the guard, lol.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Malik on October 04, 2013, 06:04:56 AM
Wanted to add this for awhile now
Kara CD:
Basically if you plink C~D (or vice versa), you get better range for the CD attacks. You can get max range by delaying the plinking by a bit (up to 4 frames).

Characters able to use it:
Ash, Mai, K', Raiden, Maxima, Mature
Benimaru (D~C)
Joe (D~C)
Hwa Jai (D~C)
Saiki (C~D)
Kula (C~D)
Takuma (C~D)
Chin (both C~D and D~C)
Ralf (D~C)
Karate (C~D)
Daimon (D~C)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Running Wild on October 04, 2013, 10:04:37 AM
Plinking... in KOF?

Wat.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Mr.Minionman on October 05, 2013, 12:32:53 AM
so kara-cancelling moves that move you forward :P That reminds me, I was thinking about trying to implement double-tapping. Does anyone here use it for kof? Might be useful for lights, but I can't think of much else
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: TrulyAmiracle on October 05, 2013, 01:38:45 AM
I've only tried the karathing with Joe and Ralf, with Joe it does add range but its not very noticable. With Ralf he takes a stupid leap forward adding even more range to his insane CD reach o.O
Good find!
Its kinda obvious but it makes the CDs a tad slower, some frametraps i had with the CDs can get poked out for if I kara them, theyre useful in the neutral game though.


so kara-cancelling moves that move you forward :P That reminds me, I was thinking about trying to implement double-tapping. Does anyone here use it for kof? Might be useful for lights, but I can't think of much else

Juicebox double-taps everything, i remember he said its very useful for chains that need to be done quickly (reg Kyo's c.B c.B c.A). Its also useful for characters with Mash moves like Joe, Ralf, Clark etc.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Malik on October 05, 2013, 03:16:36 PM
so kara-cancelling moves that move you forward :P That reminds me, I was thinking about trying to implement double-tapping. Does anyone here use it for kof? Might be useful for lights, but I can't think of much else

I double tap for a ton of chains/links involving  ;a's &  ;b's & when playing footsies when I want a specific button to come out so it's definitely useful.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Asica604 on November 23, 2013, 10:55:57 AM
Hi guys,

Is there a way shortcut to HDC a DP into a HCB? I am trying to HD cancel Ryo's DP+A into HCB+D and finding it pretty difficult.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: desmond_kof on November 24, 2013, 06:16:55 PM
Hi guys,

Is there a way shortcut to HDC a DP into a HCB? I am trying to HD cancel Ryo's DP+A into HCB+D and finding it pretty difficult.


Honestly that cancel is rather easy by itself because all you need to do is just hit forward after the dp, then roll back for the hcb+D.

Maybe try hcb,f+A (shortcut for dp motion) then hcb+D?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Good Loser on March 07, 2015, 11:45:47 PM
For Keyboard User's having trouble with "qcf~hcb", try "qcf~qcb". Work's for me. (Saiki's Neo Max for example)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Good Loser on March 14, 2015, 10:45:07 PM
Found a shortcut for Half circle! (  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk) Inward for example

Try quarter circle front-quarter circle back! ( ;dn ;df ;fd- ;dn ;db ;bk)

works both ways, but so far i didn't test it for Half Circlex2

As a keyboard user, half circle motions (x2) were the reasons to abandon chars like Clark maybe if i get it to work for the (X2) version, i can pick up more characters :D
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Coffeeling on March 18, 2015, 11:57:57 AM
That's not news. The game (Steam & Climax Edition in Arcade) only asks for  ;bk ;dn ;fd to complete a half circle. You could easily simplify that into:
 ;fd, ;dn ;db ;bk

Doesn't work on console or old arcade version to my knowledge.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Good Loser on March 18, 2015, 11:34:52 PM
That's not news. The game (Steam & Climax Edition in Arcade) only asks for  ;bk ;dn ;fd to complete a half circle. You could easily simplify that into:
 ;fd, ;dn ;db ;bk

Doesn't work on console or old arcade version to my knowledge.

How about Double Half Circle? I've been trying to get it to work but to no avail.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: a11111357 on April 04, 2015, 12:06:48 PM
A Chinese company bought SNK.
http://www.gamersky.com/news/201504/554840.shtml (http://www.gamersky.com/news/201504/554840.shtml)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Good Loser on April 04, 2015, 06:57:18 PM
A Chinese company bought SNK.
http://www.gamersky.com/news/201504/554840.shtml (http://www.gamersky.com/news/201504/554840.shtml)

Perfect World? :o
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Demoninja on April 06, 2015, 11:05:52 PM
Not shortcuts but I'll post these here.

If you have trouble with doing cr.B cr.B (HD), what you can do is instead of pressing B+C together, "plink" C then B. it'll activate and then a C will come out. Be ready to cancel into whatever command normal or special is next though.

For run grabs, you can "plink" the C or D with back/forward.

The easiest way in my opinion to do a dp (DC) qcf, is to make sure you hold the "d/f" or the "3" for a split second and ride the gate while you do the qcf or 236. This lets you feel if it's going to work or not.

Whoever said plinking in KOF 13?! It doesn't have the same usage as USF4 but it definitely has applications in KOF 13 .
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: BodyOrgan on April 07, 2015, 03:20:23 PM
Not shortcuts but I'll post these here.

If you have trouble with doing cr.B cr.B (HD), what you can do is instead of pressing B+C together, "plink" C then B. it'll activate and then a C will come out. Be ready to cancel into whatever command normal or special is next though.

For run grabs, you can "plink" the C or D with back/forward.

The easiest way in my opinion to do a dp (DC) qcf, is to make sure you hold the "d/f" or the "3" for a split second and ride the gate while you do the qcf or 236. This lets you feel if it's going to work or not.

Whoever said plinking in KOF 13?! It doesn't have the same usage as USF4 but it definitely has applications in KOF 13 .
What is plinking?
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Good Loser on April 07, 2015, 05:03:44 PM
What is plinking?

(http://faceportal.hu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/star-studio-planking.jpg)
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Fluke on April 07, 2015, 11:25:12 PM
Harr harr. Plinking is sf(4) lingo. Not relevant as far as i know in any snk(p) games.

Plinking is when you cause a poorly programmed system to read an input twice by hitting a second, lower priority button on the frame after you hit the first one. The practical effect is that the higher priority button takes effect on two subsequent frames, thus making it easier to link normals together.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Demoninja on April 08, 2015, 12:31:27 AM
You're right, it isn't plinking in the SF4 sense but it uses the exact same motion that takes advantage of how this system reads button inputs. For example my run grab trick won't work in 2k2 and the only reason the HDC input works is because of leniency in the system. I figured plinking would be the easiest way to explain it.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Fluke on April 08, 2015, 06:48:32 AM
Yeah, and you're probably right. Stuff like Yuris srk.C dc srk.D is probably best done with a plink like input. Although i think that in that specific case timing might actually best be a bit slower than a plink. The magical wonders of a system in wich i like the leniency, oh joy! I do dislike that you have to adjust fireball inputs because of shoryuken input overlap, but knowing about it, it makes sense and is usually easily dealt with.

Off topic, but i'm extremely happy to see that mkx will allow players to turn off negative edge. Some companies actually seem to realise that crap like negative edge is stupid and ought to be done away with.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Demoninja on April 08, 2015, 06:36:13 PM
Speaking of Yuri, here's a really easy way to do her dp+A (HDC) dp+D, after you do the dp+A, immediately press and hold D and it'll HDC easily.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: BodyOrgan on April 10, 2015, 04:00:28 PM
Harr harr. Plinking is sf(4) lingo. Not relevant as far as i know in any snk(p) games.

Plinking is when you cause a poorly programmed system to read an input twice by hitting a second, lower priority button on the frame after you hit the first one. The practical effect is that the higher priority button takes effect on two subsequent frames, thus making it easier to link normals together.
Thanks for the explanation! I really didn't know what this was at all.
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: Alegretto on May 05, 2016, 11:21:12 PM
Hey!

Does anyone know or has access to down/recovery frame data? As in, however many frames is it that recovery takes, or how long do characters stay in the ground if they don't tech the fall, etc.
Thanks!
Title: Re: The King of Fighters XIII Gameplay discussion (All shortcuts on 1st page)
Post by: The Good Loser on May 10, 2016, 02:51:45 AM
I'm on my iPod so I can't help much with searching but its definately floating around here. Iirc it would be different for some, like slightly faster / slower.