Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Kyo Kusanagi => Topic started by: desmond_kof on December 06, 2011, 11:21:27 PM
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Discuss various combos (from bnbs to HD combos) on their practicality, difficulty, damage, meter/stock used, positioning and detection. Here is the list from the wiki:
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kyo_Kusanagi_(XIII)&action=edit§ion=16 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kyo_Kusanagi_(XIII)&action=edit§ion=16)
Also, if you have combos you'd like to add or critique, mention them also in the wiki thread!
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cr.B, cr.A, df+D (1), qcf+D, rdp+B, (SC in air) qcb hcf+P, qcf+A, hcb+D
This is the 1 meter 50% drive combo everyone was using in the corner with Kyo in the arcade version . It's still very good in the console version, however, after trying a lot of stuff with him in training mode, I believe that his best 1 meter 50% drive combo in the corner is :
cr.B , cr.A, df+D (1), qcf+D, rdp+B, qcf+B, dp+A, (DC) qcf+D , (air) qcb hcf+P, hcb+B.
It deals the same damage as the arcade bnb, but even if it's a bit harder to do due to the tiger knee orochinagi, It builds a lot of meter before using the super ( nearly a full meter actually ) so you can pretty much always do it if you have 1 drive. It also builds back more meter than used, builds a little bit of drive at the end , and is a hard knockdown.
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corner HD loop,best damaging option metereless I found
HD cl.C qcf+D rdp+B [dp+C HDC rdp+B] X3 dp+A HDC qcf+D hcb+D,if you have 2 bars you can maxcancel hcb+D into neomax-> 734dmg
with 3 bars you can do orochinagi after qcf+D and then max cancel,809 dmg
with 4 bars after the loop you can do dp+A HDC qcb hcf+p land qcb hcf+P max cancel 879 dmg
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From SRK wiki
(near corner) cr.B cr.A df+D xx qcf+D, rdp+B qcf+B, dp+C (DC) qcf+D, j.qcb hcf+AC, qcf+A, hcb+B
Having trouble with this combo. The bolded qcf+D completely whiffs. Is it possible to combo with it in this combo?
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I think you need to Drive Cancel into the qcf+D on first hit of the dp+C. Have you tried that?
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From SRK wiki
(near corner) cr.B cr.A df+D xx qcf+D, rdp+B qcf+B, dp+C (DC) qcf+D, j.qcb hcf+AC, qcf+A, hcb+B
Having trouble with this combo. The bolded qcf+D completely whiffs. Is it possible to combo with it in this combo?
I think its a mistake, i think you can only drive cancel from DP+A into QCF+D by doing this the 2nd hit of the upkicks will juggle and let you continue the combo using DP+C will not let it juggle at all.
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it might be a typo for dp c ( haven't tried it out) but i know for a fact dp a will work.
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Yeah that makes a lot more sense.
Hm, the combo isn't even worth using the drive gauge for since you can do as much (or more) without using drive.
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Hey all , how do you cancel his jump ;dnC into jump ;dn C again? Theres not enough hitstun for the other one to hit. Should I delay the first jump ;dn ;c as much as possible and then super jump cancel the second one to hit?
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Hey all , how do you cancel his jump ;dnC into jump ;dn C again? Theres not enough hitstun for the other one to hit. Should I delay the first jump ;dn ;c as much as possible and then super jump cancel the second one to hit?
Two j.down+C's in a row, OG 98 Extra mode style? I don't think you can do that in this game. You can hit them with a hyper hopped j.C after a hyperhopped j.down+C...
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Hey all , how do you cancel his jump ;dnC into jump ;dn C again? Theres not enough hitstun for the other one to hit. Should I delay the first jump ;dn ;c as much as possible and then super jump cancel the second one to hit?
i just try to hit the first one as low as possible then immediately do hyper hop down c in the opponents direction.
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Hey all , how do you cancel his jump ;dnC into jump ;dn C again? Theres not enough hitstun for the other one to hit. Should I delay the first jump ;dn ;c as much as possible and then super jump cancel the second one to hit?
i just try to hit the first one as low as possible then immediately do hyper hop down c in the opponents direction.
Oh shit, I did it. Disregard my last message.
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Yeah that makes a lot more sense.
Hm, the combo isn't even worth using the drive gauge for since you can do as much (or more) without using drive.
That combo isn't meant for damage, but for meter building. That combo alone builds more than one stocks of super bar. It does only 6 damage less, and it does more stun.
I'd say it's worth doing.
You can't do damage even remotely like this damage without using drive. Unless you have some secret technology you should be sharing with us ;-)
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It appears XIII Kyo can combo from ground Orochinagi into dp+A while in hyperdrive with the right height of the opponent and correct timing of the ground Orochinagi.
Corner HD combos:
3 Stock
Cl. C (HD activate) D, dp+A, (HDC) rdp+B, (HDC) dp+A, (HDC)qcb hcf+ A (hold for timing/ ground Orochinagi), dp+A, (HDC)qcb hcf+ A (hold for timing/ ground Orochinagi), dp+A, (HDC) rdp+B, (HDC) air qcb hcf+A, rdp+B, dp+A
5 Stock
Cl. C (HD activate) D, dp+A, (HDC) rdp+B, (HDC) dp+A, (HDC)qcb hcf+ A (hold for timing/ ground Orochinagi), dp+A, (HDC)qcb hcf+ A (hold for timing/ ground Orochinagi), dp+A, (HDC) rdp+B, (HDC) air qcb hcf+A, qcfx2 AC
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Kyo : (30%DC/2,3Ex/corner){s.C/d.B,d.A},df.D,qcf.D,AirExOrochi,qcf.A,rdp.B,dp.A(2 Hits),(SC)Orochi,hcb.K (635/572 Dmg) Best combo i found for this cost
And rofl at the damage reduce difference of damage for one more hit : 48 for one more hit :(
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Kyo : (30%DC/2,3Ex/corner){s.C/d.B,d.A},df.D,qcf.D,AirExOrochi,qcf.A,rdp.B,dp.A(2 Hits),(SC)Orochi,hcb.K (635/572 Dmg) Best combo i found for this cost
And rofl at the damage reduce difference of damage for one more hit : 48 for one more hit :(
You can also just do:
whatever ->df.D,qcf.D,AirEXorochi,qcf.A,hcb.K and do around 536 damage depending on your starter. This does 4 less damage than doing df.D,qcf.D,rdp.B SC EX-orochi,qcf.A,hcb.K that people seem to be doing and doesnt cost any drive.
IMO if you have 2 meters you never need to use drive as kyo. You can just do that combo in the corner or do:
whatever->df.D,qcf.D,rdp.B,ground-EXorochi for 470ish damage.
You only need to use drive for 1 meter combos or just save it for HDcombos. But that's just one possible playstyle.
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Well i often have the opportunity to land a combo with some Ex but without the drive to start an HD combo, so to kill I need a combo with those characteristics.
And if you have read my combo you'll notice that I start with the classic 2Ex combo. I just need a way to add some damages after it.
IMO if you have 2 meters you never need to use drive as kyo. You can just do that combo in the corner or do:
whatever->df.D,qcf.D,rdp.B,ground-EXorochi for 470ish damage.
In fact you can do two rdp.B before the Ex orochi.
->df.D,qcf.D,rdp.B,rdp.B,qcb hcf.AC
cr.B , cr.A, df+D (1), qcf+D, rdp+B, qcf+B, dp+A, (DC) qcf+D , (air) qcb hcf+P, hcb+B.
It deals the same damage as the arcade bnb, but even if it's a bit harder to do due to the tiger knee orochinagi, It builds a lot of meter before using the super ( nearly a full meter actually ) so you can pretty much always do it if you have 1 drive. It also builds back more meter than used, builds a little bit of drive at the end , and is a hard knockdown.
cr.B , cr.A, df+D (1), qcf+D, rdp+B, qcf+B,rdp+B, dp+A, (SC) (air) qcb hcf+P , hcb+B.
Deals a bit more, build a bit more, let you more time to build the meter and end the combo.
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In fact you can do two rdp.B before the Ex orochi.
->df.D,qcf.D,rdp.B,rdp.B,qcb hcf.AC
Is there some sort of trick to this? I can't seem to get the EXorochi to hit after 2 rdp+Bs
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You can with the delay on the Orochinagi Ex reduce the startup of the move at 2f. To do so you must press the 2 buttons, wait a little and then release them.
It's that make also Kyo a very good punisher and unsafejumpable char.
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This is an old KOF trick. This used to be used in other KOFs in order to combo Kyo's j.D > s.C > f.B > Orochinagi where Orochinagi was too slow to combo normally.
I'm able to do it by holding the EX Orochinagi for a split second. If you hold orochinagi and then let it go right away, it actually comes out faster than just executing it normally. It might difficult to tell when to let it go, bc time freezes for an instant at startup. (you can get a feel for it if you do it enough, hold it just for a split second)
Can't believe they threw it into this game - pretty cool, but was much more obvious that you were faster in previous versions.
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You can with the delay on the Orochinagi Ex reduce the startup of the move at 2f. To do so you must press the 2 buttons, wait a little and then release them.
It's that make also Kyo a very good punisher and unsafejumpable char.
Works like a charm! Thanks!
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I'm doing this HD fullscreen :
s.c,df.D(2 Hits),(HD)s.D,dp.C(1 Hit),(HD)qcf.D,[hcb.D,(HD)dp.A,(HD)qcf.D(1 Hits)]*2,dp.C(1 Hit),(HD) qcfqcf.AC (703 Dmg)
s.c,df.D(2 Hits),(HD)s.D,dp.C(1 Hit),(HD)qcf.D,[hcb.D,(HD)dp.A,(HD)qcf.D(1 Hits)]*2,dp.C(1 Hit),(HD)hcb.B (502 Dmg)
Anyone as something better for a full screen combo with 100% Hd and 2 Ex?
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kyocombo.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LCDRw6l1sk#ws)
May help some ppl to get the combo timing. Sorry for the shitty quality I just have a webcam to record =_=
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My new corner combo for when I feel lucky and need to do damage. Needs 2 meters and at least 35% drive, maybe a little less.
Whatever > dp ;d, tk ex super, rdp ;b, qcf ;b, rdp ;b, dp ;a [DC] qcf ;d, rdp ;b, qcf ;b, rdp ;b, dp ;a
Does 560ish, I don't remember exactly. You can exchange the last dp for an ex dp to get 602, since the whole thing build a meter and a half. The only really tricky part is hitting the first rdp ;b from the super.
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Best 2 stock HD combo I have seen so far :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,[dp.C,(HD)rdp.B]*2,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)Neomax
790 dmg (819 starting with j.C)
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Those combo are highly dependent of the height you hit your opponent and the way you do the tiger knee EX orochonagi. Thus I highly recommend you to modify them in real time, relaunching higher with dp.A if you see you are too low for the next dp.C.
With an Ex orochinagi down at the lowest height possible :
(Corner, 100% Drive, 4 Ex) J.CD (counter), air qcb hcf.ABC,rdp.B,[dp.C,(HD)rdp.B]*3,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (956 Dmg)
(Corner, 100% Drive, 2 Ex) J.CD (counter), air qcb hcf.ABC,rdp.B,[dp.C,(HD)rdp.B]*3,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,dp.A,(HD)qcf.D,hcb.D (747 Dmg)
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Best 2 stock full screen HD combo I have seen so far :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.C,(HD)qcf.D,hcb.B,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)hcb.B,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (740 Dmg)
Doesn't work on a back turned opponent if you are closer than 2/3 of the screen with the corner.
From mid to 2/3 :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.C,(HD)qcf.D,hcb.B,(HD)rdp.B,[dp.C,(HD)qcb.B,rdp.B]*2,dp.C,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (761 Dmg)
Doesn't work on back turned opponent.
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Combo by Dune: corner, 2 stock, 1 drive: cr.b, cr.b, st.b, qcf+b, dp+a, drive cancel qcb~hcf+AC landing qcf+a, qcf+c, rdp+d -503 dmg and 52 stun.
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3-stock Corner HD Combo:
5C, BC (HDA), 5D, 623A, (HDC) 421B, ([623C, (HDC) 421B]x2), 623A, (HDC) (standing) 2141236A, 623A (HDC)421B, 623C, (NMC) 236236AC 873 damage (896-898 damage starting with j.C or j.D)
4-stock Corner HD Combo:
5D, BC (HDA), 5D, 623A, (HDC) 421B, ([623A, (HDC) (slightly charged and standing) 2141236A/C]x2), 623A, (HDC)421B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 623C,(NMC) 236236AC 1001 damage
Mid-screen HD combos:
0-stock: 5C, BC (HDA), 5D, 623A, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 632A, (HDC) 421D (551 damage)
1-stock: 5C, BC (HDA), 5D, 623A, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 632A, (HDC) 236A, 421BD (579 damage)
2 stock: 5C, BC (HDA), 5D, 623A, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 632A, (NMC) 236236AC (736 damage)
3-stock: 5C, BC (HDA), 5D, 623A, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 632A, (HDC) 236D, 2141236A (NMC) 236236AC (793 damage)
4-stock: 5C, BC (HDA), 5D, 623A, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 623C, (HDC) 421B, 623A, (HDC) 63214B, 632C, (HDC) 421B, 2141236AC (NMC) 236236AC (871 damage)
Non-drive combos:
1-stock: cr. B, cr. B, st.B, qcf+B, qcb hcf+A/C (299 dmg)
1-stock: cr.B, cr. A, qcf+D, rdp+B, qcb hcf+A/C (306 dmg)
Both combos above required orochinagi charged for a short time in order to connect it from qcf+B and rdp+B.
2-stock: cr. B, qcb hcf+AC (377 dmg)
Buffering trick and a quickly charged orochinagi will make this combo work.
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Non-drive combos:
1-stock: cr. B, cr. B, st.B, qcf+B, qcb hcf+A/C (299 dmg)
I came across a this combo and tried a similar one randomly when I was trying to use a gimmicky HD reset into overhead. You can get even more damage at the wall if you do the beginning of the regular bnb loop and the DM link seems easier too.
1-stock Corner Combo: cr. B, cr. A, df.D, qcfD, rdpB, qcfB, qcbhcfP (331 dmg)
but you need to be a pixel closer or something to land cr.B cr.A as opposed to cr.B cr.B. However, at certain ranges, Kyo will be too far to chain after cr.B cr.B into st.B whereas cr.B cr.A always links to df.D so the two-hit confirm of cr.B cr.A is more reliable imo.
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Best 2 stock full screen HD combo I have seen so far :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.C,(HD)qcf.D,hcb.B,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)hcb.B,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (740 Dmg)
Doesn't work on a back turned opponent if you are closer than 2/3 of the screen with the corner.
From mid to 2/3 :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.C,(HD)qcf.D,hcb.B,(HD)rdp.B,[dp.C,(HD)qcb.B,rdp.B]*2,dp.C,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (761 Dmg)
Doesn't work on back turned opponent.
Those are some awesome combos! Just wanted to point out the typo for anyone confused; in the 2nd combo above, where it says qcb.B it should be qcf.B.
Best 2 stock HD combo I have seen so far :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,[dp.C,(HD)rdp.B]*2,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)Neomax
790 dmg (819 starting with j.C)
That's a good one. I made one a bit stronger but the range is terrible.
[2-stock Corner HD Combo]
C-df.D(2hits)<HDA> D-dp.C[HDC]qcf.B, dp.C[HDC]rdp.B, dp.A[HDC]rdp.B, 2x(dpC[HDC]rdp.B), dp.A[HDC]qcfqcf.AC
794 dmg (822 starting with j.C)
The one you use is better though imo because of the range and since it can be modified to an easy 5 bar kill if you air super cancel the second last dp.C to airDM then do EXDM-Neomax
[5-stock 50% screen HD Combo]
C-df.D(2hits) <HDA> D-dp.A[HDC]rdp.B, 2x(dp.C,[HDC]rdp.B], dp.A,[HC]rdp.B, dp.C,[air HDC]airDM, EXDM[MC]Neomax
976 dmg (1010 starting with j.C)
I made a 4-stock corner one too that doesn't kill but the damage is okay and it doesn't need any DM charging (though it still needs a dp.A cancelled on ground to DM so it's still a bit hard):
[4-stock Corner HD Combo]
C-df.D(2hits) <HDA> D-dp.C[HDC]qcf.B, dp.C[HDC]rdp.B[HDC]airDM, rdpB, dp.C[HDC]rdp.B, dp.A[HDC]DM, dp.A[HDC]Neomax
926 damage (951 starting with j.C)
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This is a combo I saw on a latest KCE video: http://youtu.be/SF1TlI6Z920?t=8m23s (http://youtu.be/SF1TlI6Z920?t=8m23s)
It starts from his overhead: f+B (HD), st.D, dp+C (HDC), qcf+B, dp+C (HDC), qcf+B, rdp+B, dp+C (HDC), qcf+B, rdp+B, dp+C (3) (SC), air qcb~hcf+P (land) qcf, qcf+AC = 858 dmg
with a jump attack (j.C) with a close C, df+D (2) the damage total was 880. Without the jump C, I got 851. So, it's a rather damaging combo either way you start it. I think it's rather easy, but the tricky part is timing that st.D that Kyo is close enough to hit the opponent fully with his dp+C. If you Hyper Drive Activate too early then the dp+C will whiff after the stand D.
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This is a combo I saw on a latest KCE video: http://youtu.be/SF1TlI6Z920?t=8m23s (http://youtu.be/SF1TlI6Z920?t=8m23s)
It starts from his overhead: f+B (HD), st.D, dp+C (HDC), qcf+B, dp+C (HDC), qcf+B, rdp+B, dp+C (HDC), qcf+B, rdp+B, dp+C (3) (SC), air qcb~hcf+P (land) qcf, qcf+AC = 858 dmg
with a jump attack (j.C) with a close C, df+D (2) the damage total was 880. Without the jump C, I got 851. So, it's a rather damaging combo either way you start it. I think it's rather easy, but the tricky part is timing that st.D that Kyo is close enough to hit the opponent fully with his dp+C. If you Hyper Drive Activate too early then the dp+C will whiff after the stand D.
I've seen the 5 bar variant of this one (does 100% starting with hop C, C-df.D <HD>) on youtube somewhere. The only difference is at the end instead of just qcfqcf+AC at the end it's qcb,qcf.AC(2frame version) [MC] qcfqcf.AC.
The combo starter is strong but it has limited range; opponent's starting position is too far from the wall for the jumpin combo unless you do a deep jump that partially pushes the opponent back before you land --and-- you take full advantage of the HD slide. If starting from an overhead, it's probably 30% carry or so.
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This was mentioned by Crazeh247 in chat:
(midscreen) j.d.C, s.D, [HD] s.D, dp.C, [HDC] qcf+C, [SC] qcb~hcf+C, [MC] qcfx2+AC = 777 dmg
3 stocks
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Little note :
If you want to do qcf.D,qcb hcf.AC(TK),qcf.A,qcf.B,rdp.B,dp.C
Whiff canceling a far C before the fireball will give you the timing for landing the qcf.B
Although you still need to do the Orochinagi TK at the lowest height possible.
It enables you to do the optimized corner 2Ex combo or the 100% stun 6Ex one quite easily since you don't have anything to time anymore.
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s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,dp.A,(HD)qcb hcf.A(Hold),dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)rdp.B,dp.A,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (872 Dmg)
You can go with a dp.C after the orochi but I couldn't succeed to combo afterwards.
This combo is the most damaging one i found with 3EXs.
But it does not worth it, because it's just too difficult ... , here is what I'm doing :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,(HD)qcb hcf.A,rdp.B,[dp.C,(HD)rdp.B]*2,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (863 Dmg)
Far easier for 9dmg less.
Be careful the range is really terrible, you have to be stick to the corner.
Slight edition of Karn combo.
4 EXs version :
s.C,df.D(2hits),HD,s.D,dp.A,(HD)rdp.B,(HD)qcb hcf.A,rdp.B,dp.C,(HD)rdp.B,(HD)qcb hcf.A,[dp.C,(HD)rdp.B]*2,(HD)qcfqcf.AC (923 Dmg)
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In Kyo's General Discussion thread I expressed some interest in researching Kyo's backturned combos a bit because you can do some really nasty cross-up setups because he lands on the other side of him if you perform it near the corner. I've been experimenting with these combos quite a bit in training mode and even in a tournament setting, and I love how you can confuse the opponent by landing on the other side of them after the hard knockdown.
Corner cross-ups are explained in this video: http://youtu.be/TePo-epAmJc (http://youtu.be/TePo-epAmJc)
Using ZeroBlack's gameplay and videos I've found a couple of neat combos that causes you to land on the other side of the opponent.
http://www.twitch.tv/zero_black/b/415681039 (http://www.twitch.tv/zero_black/b/415681039)
@ 12:03
* ZeroBlack's opponent did a rdp+B (XIII Kyo mirror match) that missed which caused him to be punished with his backturned. Then he performed cl.C, qcf+D, rdp+B, qcf+B, rdp+B, dp+A. Then when he landed after the dp+A, he landed in front of him BUT was able to jump over because of the backturned corner cross-up trick.
@ 12:45
* ZeroBlack caught his opponent at the end of a roll then punished with a cr.A, df+D (1), qcf+D, rdp+B, qcf+B, rdp+BD. Then his Kyo landed in the corner, then he hopped j.2C over them to cross them up and followed that up with a cr.B, cr.A, df+D (1), qcf+D (wait) qcf+B, rdp+B, dp+C (1) (DC), qcf+D, tk air orochinagi, qcf+B, rdp+B, dp+C. Doing that last combo alone is 422 dmg for just 1 bar and 1 drive...add a j.C and replace cr.B, cr.A with cl.C then its 507 dmg. A little tricky though.
@ 15:01
*His opponent got caught rolling after a reset to be punished by a cr.A (the cr.B whiffed before it), df+D (1), qcf+D, rdp+B, rdp+BD into a hard knockdown in the corner. ZeroBlack landed in the corner, then just stayed their to hit his opponent with a cr.B into to a combo ending in a rdp+BD. His opponent probably thought he was going to jump over his body or maybe he forgot he was going to land in the corner. You can do that same set-up by using rdp+D instead of rdp+B, rdp+BD if you don't have meter.
I'll point out more examples later of some mix-ups but hopefully this will start giving people some ideas. I really need to find some good ways to pin the opponent in the backturned state but it seems catching them after a throw is one of the many ways. This video is 3 hours long plus he has more casual sessions, so I'll keep watching and continue this later.