Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Joe Higashi => Topic started by: desmond_kof on December 12, 2011, 03:44:08 AM
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http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Joe_Higashi_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Joe_Higashi_(XIII))
All pending submissions for his wiki shall be posted here for testing and analysis before approval. Whatever section you are submitting, just copy and paste a template from the wiki like for example:
"Screw Straight = (qcfx2+BD) - _____(your text)_______
* Hit Detection: High
* Damage: 18 x 25 "
Please share any questions, comments or feedback you may have on the wiki thus far, and we will try our best to keep it as accurate and updated as we can. Thanks in advance.
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Ah, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Desmond. I'll add here as prescribed above once I've done some lab confirmation ;)
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I've flushed out the Specials section for today.
Special Moves
Hurricane Upper = (hcf+P) - Joe throws an uppercut that sends a hurricane projectile across the screen. Despite looking tall, the projectile can be hopped over. A version is slower and has faster recovery. C is the opposite of A. Both versions will travel to the edge of the screen. Effective when used mid range, A Hurricane followed by Slash Kick or Golden Heel are useful methods for dealing with opponents who roll through or jump over the projectile.
(EX) = hcf+AC - Throws 3 Hurricane Uppers in quick succession. Travels through normal fireballs. Each of the three hurricans can negate an EX fireball.
Super-cancellable
Hit Detection: High
Damage: 60; EX Damage: 40 x 2, 60
Tiger Kick = (dp+K) - Joe jumps forwards attacking with his knee hitting twice. The initial attack frames will cause the opponent to float allowing for drive cancels. B Tiger Kick has quick startup and quick recovery, but no invincibility. The D version behaves oppositely: slow startup, slow recovery and good invincibility. B is good for combos and D is good for regaining momentum.
(EX) = dp+BD - Is the best of both B and D versions. Fast startup, recovery and good invincibility. A high-damage EX that is also good for interrupting the opponent. Invincible frames last until attack frames are over. Can be used to go through fireballs and down the opponent at closer ranges.
Drive- / Super-cancellable
Hit Detection: High
Damage: 50 x 2; EX Damage: 120, 80
Slash Kick = (hcf+K) - A flying middle kick that advances horizontally. Upon hit the opponent is juggleable until hitting the ground making it a good drive cancell attack. B Slash Kick travels half a screen and is safe on block when you hit with the end of it. D travels and entire screen length, but is punishable on block at any distance making it inadviseable to use.
(EX) = hcf+BD - Slower than B, but hit's twice and floats the opponent for followups. Safe on block even close up.
Hit Detection: High
B Damage: 70; D Damage: 90; EX Damage: 70 x 2
Bakuretsuken = [A/C repeatedly] - Throws a series of rapid punches that can be followed up with a finisher. Minimum number of button presses: 4. No difference between A and C. The finisher motion can be inputted while pressing the button 4 times with one more button press at the end in order to finish with the least amount of punches (4 including finisher). This is a valuable technique for Joe's juggle combos as the finisher leaves the opponent juggleable. Bakuretsuken can be super cancelled only.
(EX) = [P repeatedly] - Moves forwards while performing Bakuretsuken. The finisher is automatically executed. As this move starts up very quickly, it can be used as a counter attack. Floats the opponent relatively high for easy non-cancel follow ups. ie- Ougon no Kakato can be used afterwards to juggle without drive cancelling.
Bakuretsuken Finish = (qcb+P) - Finisher mentioned above. The finisher can be drive cancelled. Drive cancelling with Ougon no Kakato is an effective way of extending combos.
Drive- / Super-cancellable
Hit Detection: High
Bakuretsuken Damage: 10 x n ; Follow-up Damage: 30, 50
EX Damage: 20 x 6, 40, 70
Ougon no Kakato (aka Golden Heel) = (qcb+K) - A jumping axe kick. B hits higher, has less range and doesn't combo off of normals. B is good for controlling the air, but is punishable. Leaves opponents juggleable when hit while airborne. D combos off of normals and f.B, and much safer on guard. Can be used to chase A Hurricane Upper. D also juggles jumping opponents.
(EX) = qcb+BD - Frame advantage on block. Follow-ups such as s.A, Bakuresuken, Bakuretsu Hurricane Tiger Kakato can be used on hit.
Hit Detection: High
Damage: 35 x 4; EX Damage: 60 x 4
Desperation Moves
Screw Upper = (qcfx2+P) - Creates a large hurricane just in front of Joe. Can combo off of strong normals.
(EX) = qcfx2+AC - Travels to the edge of the screen eliminating fireballs in its path. Hits the opponent sending them high into the air (lockon hit type). Damage received upon landing. Fast startup, can combo off of weak attacks. Extrememly punishable if blocked or whiffed.
Hit Detection: High
Damage: 20 x 13; EX Damage: 16 x 18, 16 (20), 20
Bakuretsu Hurricane Tiger Kakato (aka BHTK) = (qcf hcb+P) - A rambu style attack performing Bakuretsuken > Hurricane Upper > Tiger Kick > Ougon no Kakato. Can combo off of weak normals. Punishable when blocked.
MAX Cancellable
Hit Detection: High
Damage: 10 x 8, 30, 30 (60), 60
Neomax
Screw Straight = (qcfx2+BD) - Horizontal version of Screw Upper. Can be used to punishe fireballs. Can combo off of strong normals. Great for chipping as the opponent cannot guard cancel roll until the end of the move (does @100 chip damage).
Hit Detection: High
Damage: 18 x 25
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Thank you, it has been added. Check the link. :)
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Bakuretsuken = [A/C repeatedly] - Throws a series of rapid punches that can be followed up with a finisher. Minimum number of button presses: 4. No difference between A and C. The finisher motion can be inputted while pressing the button 4 times with one more button press at the end in order to finish with the least amount of punches (4 including finisher). This is a valuable technique for Joe's juggle combos as the finisher leaves the opponent juggleable. Bakuretsuken can be super cancelled only.
I am pretty sure this can be drive cancelled after the follow up. I know that you covered that in the EX version, but maybe you should add it in the regular version as well.
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Bakuretsuken = [A/C repeatedly] - Throws a series of rapid punches that can be followed up with a finisher. Minimum number of button presses: 4. No difference between A and C. The finisher motion can be inputted while pressing the button 4 times with one more button press at the end in order to finish with the least amount of punches (4 including finisher). This is a valuable technique for Joe's juggle combos as the finisher leaves the opponent juggleable. Bakuretsuken can be super cancelled only.
I am pretty sure this can be drive cancelled after the follow up. I know that you covered that in the EX version, but maybe you should add it in the regular version as well.
Hey Jay, thanks for the suggestion. I was referring to being able to super cancel only off of just the Bakuretsuken part. Drive cancelling off the finish is covered in it's own blurb after 'Bakuretsuken Finish = (qcb+P)-'. One thing I did notice later on though is that screw upper is not cancellable on Bakuretsuken - only BHTK.
@Desmond, could we change:
'Bakuretsuken can be super cancelled only.'
to
'Bakuretsuken can be super cancelled by BHTK only.'
?
Thanks guys.
PS> I'll start working on the combos section - may take a bit of time though.
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Hey Desmond, minor, but could we make the change above^
Thanks!
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Done: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Joe_Higashi_(XIII)#Special_Moves (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Joe_Higashi_(XIII)#Special_Moves)
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Aiite had a couple of nights to craft up his wiki combo section.
The idea here was to go for realistic execution during a match while taking top damage combinations for both meter and positions scenarios. Glad I did this, didn't realize Joe could do so much damage with 0 meter and full drive. (pity I can't pull these off online)
Des, could you kindly add these to the wiki?
Joe Combos
No Meter
s.A > f.B > B-Slash 145
j.D > s.C > f.B > D-Tiger 272
(low) c.B > s.A > f.B > B-Slash 145 | (close) D-Tiger 189
(Corner) j.D > TnT 1~3 - finish > B-Tiger > TnT 1~3 - finish > j.D 316
1 Meter
j.D > s.C > f.B > BHTK 364
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > Screw 411
2 Meters
j.D > s.C > f.B > AC-Screw 497
No Meter|1 Drive
j.D > s.C > f.B > B-Slash <DC> B-Tiger 326
(low) c.B > s.A > f.B > B-Slash <DC> B-Tiger 243
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > B-Slash <DC> TnT 1~2 - finish > j.D 359
No Meter|2 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> BC-Slash <DC> (B-Tiger > D-Heel)x5
> B-Tiger > TnT 1~2 - finish > j.D 608
1 Meter|1 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > C-Hurricane <DC> Screw 462
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > BD-Slash > B-Tiger <DC> D-Heel > B-Tiger
> TnT 1~2 - finish > j.D 515
2 Meter|1 Drive
j.D > s.C > f.B > B-Slash <SC> AC-Screw 521
(Corner) j.D > TnT 1~3 - finish > B-Tiger <SC> AC-Screw 442
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > BD-Slash > B-Tiger <SC> Screw 524
1 Meter|2 Drive
(Mid) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> BC-Slash <DC> (B-Tiger > D-Heel)x4
> B-Tiger > TnT 1~2 - finish > j.D 641
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> BC-Slash <DC> (B-Tiger > D-Heel)x4
> B-Tiger <DC> Screw 644
2 Meter|2 Drive
j.D > s.C > f.B <HD> s.C > f.B > Slash <DC> NM 655
(Mid) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> BC-Slash <DC> (B-Tiger > D-Heel)x3
> B-Tiger <DC> Screw 670
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> BC-Slash <DC> (B-Tiger > D-Heel)x4
> B-Tiger <DC> NM 767
3 Meter|2 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> BC-Slash <DC> (B-Tiger > D-Heel)x3
> B-Tiger <DC> Screw(all hits) <MC> NM 840
4 Meter|2 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> BC-Slash <DC> (B-Tiger > D-Heel)x3
> B-Tiger <DC> AC-Screw <MC> NM 872
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Des, could you kindly add these to the wiki?
Sure man, but is it possible you can edit the names of the moves with the motions instead?
For example:
- s.A > f.B > B-Slash
shouldn't that be s.A > f.B > qcb+B?
I hope it isn't too much to ask for.
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Ah, no probs.
Wasn't sure what to use as a standard for that. Pls let me know if there are any other formatting elements I should be incorporating.
thx
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Hey Des, cleaned it up and made a few tweaks. Here you are :)
Joe Combos
No Meter
s.A > f.B > hcf+B 145 | (semi close) hcf+D 163 | (close) dp+B 169
j.D > s.C > f.B > dp+B 272
(low) c.B > s.A > f.B > hcf+B 145 | (close) dp+B 189
(Corner) j.D > [A] (1~3 hits) - qcb+P > dp+B > [A] (1~3 hits) - qcb+P > j.D @311~325
1 Meter
j.D > s.C > f.B > qcf,hcb+P 364
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > qcfx2+P 411
2 Meters
j.D > s.C > f.B > qcfx2+AC 479
No Meter|1 Drive
j.D > s.C > f.B > hcf+B <DC> dp+B 326
(low) c.B > s.A > f.B > hcf+B <DC> dp+B 243
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > hcf+B <DC> dp+B > [A] 1~2 - qcb+P > j.D @420
No Meter|2 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> hcf+BC <DC> (dp+B > qcb+D)x5
> dp+B > [A] 1~2 - qcb+P > j.D 608
1 Meter|1 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > C-Hurricane <DC> qcfx2+P 462
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > hcf+BD > dp+B <DC> qcb+D > dp+B
> [A] 1~2 - qcb+P > j.D 515
2 Meter|1 Drive
j.D > s.C > f.B > hcf+B <SC> qcfx2+AC 521
(Corner) j.D > [A] 1~3 - qcb+P > dp+B <SC> qcfx2+AC 442
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B > hcf+BD > dp+B <SC> qcfx2+P 524
1 Meter|2 Drive
(Mid) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> hcf+BC <HDC> hcf+BD <HDC> (dp+B <HDC> qcb+D)x4
> dp+B > [A] 1~2 - qcb+P > j.D 647
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> hcf+BC <HDC> (dp+B <HDC> qcb+D)x4
> dp+B <HDC> qcfx2+P 644
2 Meter|2 Drive
j.D > s.C > f.B <HD> s.C > f.B > hcf+B <MC> qcfx2+BD 655
(Mid) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> hcf+BC <HDC> (dp+B <HDC> qcb+D)x3
> dp+B <HDC> qcfx2+P 670
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> hcf+BC <HDC> (dp+B <HDC> qcb+D)x4
> dp+B <HDC> qcfx2+BD 767
3 Meter|2 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> hcf+BC <HDC> (dp+B <HDC> qcb+D)x3
> dp+B <HDC> qcfx2+P(all hits) <MC> qcfx2+BD 840
4 Meter|2 Drive
(Corner) j.D > s.C > f.B <HDB> hcf+BC <HDC> (dp+B <HDC> qcb+D)x3
> dp+B <HDC> qcfx2+AC <MC> qcfx2+BD 872
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Thanks man, I started to add the first few combos and I will add the rest later.
I should've linked to you the format we are using, here is an example: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Billy_Kane_(XIII)#Combos (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Billy_Kane_(XIII)#Combos)
What is HDB? Is that Hyper Drive Activation?
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Maybe HD Bypass?
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Yep that was supposed to be HD Bypass. How should we notate that, just HDB? or will the buttons be self explanatory?
Thanks for the reference to the format, will use it going forward.
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Yep that was supposed to be HD Bypass. How should we notate that, just HDB? or will the buttons be self explanatory?
Thanks for the reference to the format, will use it going forward.
We might have to note that to the wiki, and I would also have to switch around the hcf+BC with (HDB) next to it like so: j.D, s.C, f.B, hcf+BC (HDB), (HDC) (dp+B, qcb+D)x5, dp+B, [A] 1~2 - qcb+P, j.D = 608 damage
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Gotcha man, that looks consisten, thx.
Just picked up on a search and replace typo I had.
hcf+BD was being shown as BD-hcf+B so I edited the combo post to fix that for 2 combos.
JFYI
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A few things I talked about with Hotpockets and Metaphysics concerning Joe Higashi that I felt should be noted in the wiki.
1. It should be important to learn Joe's midscreen and corner HD combos. Midscreen, he's capable of doing 60% without using any meter to speak of and can make people respect your space when you have full meter.
2. Joe's basic frame trap is timing a slash kick so that you're farther away and you're safe on block. You can time it after a Hurricane upper to keep people from jumping or rolling through the fireball. This sets you up for a knockdown and crossup possibility.
Also note, his fireballs are fairly tricky. You can hop over them, but not many people are aware of it. The different speeds though make it a bit more difficult to react to. His EX fireball is great fore mid range pressure as it eats most EX fireballs in a fireball war.
3. A well-spaced Golden Heel can be safe on block, but it's still fairly safe except for command throws. You can use D Golden Heel to apply pressure, but it's always best to space it and be at a distance to keep applying pressure than to forfeit pressure completely at the end of a special. NOTE: The opponent must be blocking. Df+B is special cancellable so you can do it from that.
4. Bakuretsu punch is safe on block if the minimal amount of presses (4 punches) was pressed. It's a nice tool to bait out a GC roll because of how safe it is. Inversely, you should be aware that st.C, f+B string can be guard rolled so being aware of someone who is prone to do that is important.
5. Far D is a nice neutral poke that's meaty as well as long range. You can also delay the f+B after a hit to set up a small trap for someone to fall into and confirm into a special for safety. This could make people weary of throwing out specials or guard cancel rolling the Far D.
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Thanks very much for upping the wiki des, looks good.
Reiki, awesome write-up by u guys.
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The wiki has been updated, with Reiki's tips and some links to you guys posts for credit.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Joe_Higashi_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Joe_Higashi_(XIII))
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Huzzah! and our Joe wiki is mostly flushed out in all of its sections :)
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@Des, realized I had posted to the wrong thread.
Could we add the following to the wiki? Thx!
So just tried this which is pretty cool:
1 Stock, No Drive Gauge
(corner)j.D, s.D, (delay) f.B, hcf+A, [AC], qcb+D, dp+B, [A](2~3hits), qcb+A, j.D = 465
@Desmond, could we add this to the wiki? I think it's great damage for 1 meter and no drive and looks cool.
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Could not cause death in an orthodox HD, but this is crazy easy for 934 dmg. Or 984 dmg using an extra stock for EX on the first tiger kick.
4|2
j.D, s.C, f.B, [HD]s.C, f.B, hcf+B, [HDC]{dp+B, [HDC]qcb+B}x3, dp+B, [HDC]qcfx2+AC, [MC]qcfx2+BD = 934 dmg
Will add to wiki....damn no death!
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It's really nice to have the option, if you do the same basic combo but with the standard reset instead of super/neomax at the end you get pretty sweet damage, that's what i usually go for, or tack a neomax on to get some good cost effective damage. For whatever reason i guess i just didn't try to max it out hehe.
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Heheh, know what you mean. Next time I'm on the con, I'll try it with EX slash at the beginning as that does more dmg and see how close we get.
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Added the following to the Tips Section:
"Frame Traps and Links
(L)= Link
1. st. A, cl. C
2. st. A, cr. C
3. cr. A, cl. C
4. cr. A, cr. C
5. cl. A/C(x3 to 4), cl. C (L)
6. cl. A/C(x3 to 4), cr. C (L)
7. cl. A/C(x3 to 4), st. A (L) "
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I found this in the wiki:
1 Stock, No Drive Gauge
(corner)j.D, s.D, (delay) f.B, hcf+A, [AC], qcb+D, dp+B, [A](2~3hits), qcb+A, j.D = 465
This isnt working. Seems like a typo somewhere.
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It's slightly off. As the post stun launcher string in the stun combo you use j.C instead of j.D for the extra damage but that's minor. Typically it would be
j.C s.D f.B hcf.A A+C*3 qcb.D P*3.qcb.P(same punch) srk.B P*3.qcb.P(same punch) then mash punch to get the two (can get a third though i believe it only adds 1 damage and stun and it does make the timing much stricter) juggle hits followed by qcb.P(same punch) j.D 488 damage i believe.
The variation you posted should work fine but it is for some reason missing a bakuretsuken+finish and notes the last "instant" bakuretsuken+finish as the juggling bakuretsuken that you are supposed to follow up on it with wich just results in free damage lost to nothing.
Unless you are doing this combo as the post stun follow up to the stun combo though you should just go with his typical EX slash kick corner stuff. Wich is ofcourse, the start of the stun combo.
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OHH, the [AC] meant to A+C as in light punch and heavy punch mashed together. My bad, I thought someone meant to put in a drive cancel (which wouldn't make sense cause the combo isn't in the drive cancel combos section) but wrote an A instead of a D.
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I didn't see this anywhere so hopefully I'm not duplicating information.
Joe's Bakuretsuken (Px4) is +5 on hit. Means you can link the following commands after hitting someone:
1.st.A -5F
2.cr.A -4F
3.cr.B- 4F
4.cl.C - 5F
5.cr.C -5F
6.qcf,hcb+P -4F
For the sake of doing maximum damage, I will just use st.C and cr.C, but st.A works too.
A sample combos:
1. st.C, PPPP, qcf,hcb+P = 268 dmg, 1 bar
Links naturally, do the motion and hold punch to make it link
2. st.C, PPPP, st.C, f+B, qcf, hcb+P =348 dmg, 1 bar
(1F link, easier if you map two HP/C buttons)
3. st.C, PPPP, cr.C, df+B = 197 dmg, no bar
(1F link, no bar knockdown combo)