Dream Cancel Forum

King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Kula Diamond => Topic started by: nilcam on December 14, 2011, 12:39:28 AM

Title: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: nilcam on December 14, 2011, 12:39:28 AM
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kula_Diamond_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kula_Diamond_(XIII))

Submissions, questions, comments and feedback should be posted here.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on March 24, 2012, 06:39:43 PM
The bulk of Kula's wiki entry is now complete.  There are still a few more things to add (like a complete list of what projectiles Slider Shoot will go under), and no doubt there are some things I missed, so please continue to contribute information (details, feedback, corrections, combos, tips and tricks, etc.) if you can!
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on March 25, 2012, 12:57:44 AM
Great job, Jenny. Thanks a lot for your help. It looks so much better now.

A few things I am a little confused about is in the pros section you put "B. 'Nuff said." Do you mean st.B? If so, you should probably put that in, because I wasn't sure which B, maybe crouch B, jump B, etc. :)

I think you should try to elaborate a bit more on her normal throw. What position does it leave the opponent and the player afterwards? What kind of okizeme options do you have in this position? Is it possible for you to jump in with a meaty attack or empty jump in with a low attack, etc?

Also, I feel that we all should give details about different combos and the point to doing some of them. Does this combo end in a hard knockdown? Does it also build you meter? Does it end the opponent up in the corner? Is it hard to perform or easy? Is the damage high? Stuff like that. It can just be one or two brief sentences for example: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hwa_Jai_%28XIII%29#Drunk_Combos (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hwa_Jai_%28XIII%29#Drunk_Combos)

That's really it. Let me know how you feel about this, and thanks again for the good work!
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on March 25, 2012, 07:51:38 PM
Thanks Desmond, I'll try to elaborate more on her combos and throw options in the coming days.  I cleaned up a lot of her inefficient and redundant combos and added some more higher damaging HDs.  There is a 100% I know about but I didn't come up with it.  It's on YouTube.  In that situation, is it permissable to add it, or should I keep grinding for my own 100%?
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on March 25, 2012, 07:59:44 PM
Post it up and lets see it. If anything you can just put it in links & references section.

Also, what other character pages you would like to edit?
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on March 25, 2012, 09:16:14 PM
KOF XIII [K' Team 100% DMG Combo] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBeVXaarJrI#ws)

Here's the 100%.  Let me know how you feel about it being included.

I main Kim and claw Iori as well, but I think those pages are already taken care of.  When I'm done with Kula I'll see if there's anything I could add to those (probably just combos if they're not up already).  I can also play K', Beni and Vice, but I don't consider myself super competent about their ins and outs.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on March 25, 2012, 09:24:05 PM
You can put it in the video section (as just a link not embed). I'm not sure how practical those combos are in a real match compared to this video: KOFXIII PRACTICAL CMV Vol.4 KULA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_g-hobEJZE#ws) but you can add it if you like.

EDIT: If you can help with Kim and Iori on some damage testing for their combos, that would be great.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: DJMirror949 on August 02, 2012, 10:14:07 AM
Hi, I tested this stuff several times and I still wanna be sure so I'm wondering if someone can test these out before it becomes legit on the wiki. Of course some of these things can't be punished with certain blockstrings or certain spacings

I'll put an example and please let me know what do you guys think

Duo Lon

His Genmu Kyaku (Forward+B) homes in on you so you have to keep moving so just run forward to avoid it

His Air Genmu Kyaku (Jumping Forward+B) can be beaten by DP or you can trade it with Down+C or go air to air with Jumping B or Jumping C

-Air Genmu Kyaku is also an overhead as well

•If you get knockdown and Duo Lon running and does his Standing CD on your wakeup, just block the opposite way or roll back

-KULA: You can input forward then QCF+AC because if he does the Standing CD side changing, you'll get EX Krow Bite or EX Counter Shell

-If he does it while you're in the corner, he'll ALWAYS be in front of you

A Version of the Juon Shikon (QCB+A) is safe on block but EX & C Versions are not

-If they're doing a blockstring ending with EX Juon Shikon, just Guard Cancel Roll through it

-If you hit him as the Juon Shikon is out, it'll disappear

-If you attempt to jump over the Juon Shikon, you'll eat a Standing C, Down+C etc depending where both the characters are

-You can use Counter Shell or Ray Spin to counter this

•All 3 Versions & all 3 HITS of his Suteki Juryu (QCF+P) are punishable on block but they all lead to Hike Kyaku Zen (Teleport Forward) ONLY!

-If he does two Down+A into Suteki Juryu & stop on the second hit of it, you can do Standing B into DP or Standing B into EX Ray Spin

-If you're in the corner as he's doing his Suteki Juryu and then teleport, he'll ALWAYS be in front of you

-If he does B version of Hike Kyaku Zen after the THIRD hit of the Suteki Juryu, you can use Guard Cancel Roll Back and you'll end right in front of him to pressure/punish him

-KULA: EX Ray Spin just right after he teleport but Freezing Execution will NOT get him

-If it's a D version of the Hike Kyaku Zen after the Suteki Juryu, Guard Cancel Roll will not help!

-KULA: EX DP or Freezing Execution (The timing for Super is really hard)

•His B & EX Version of Hike Kyaku Zen goes the SAME Distance while D Version of Hike Kyaku Zen goes 70% of the screen

-This also applies ONLY a certain degree/spacing to Hike Kyaku Ushiro (QCB+K) (Teleport Back)
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on October 18, 2012, 03:14:16 PM
This is regarding fighting against EX Iori: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kula_Diamond_%28XIII%29#Character_Matchups (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kula_Diamond_%28XIII%29#Character_Matchups)

"Because his BnB combos end with hard knockdowns he'll have a free setup for his command crossup.  '''Do not roll this on wakeup'''.  Iori's run speed is fast enough to punish you if you attempt to roll his crossup on wakeup, so block it every time. "

I'm not sure if I agree with this strategy. I think rolling his taco (if they are jumping) after a knockdown is a safe way to escape and eliminates the guess work of trying to block it. Plus, does Iori really have enough time to catch someone rolling if his taco misses? I might have to test that out, but I've always found just rolling is good enough, I haven't gotten punished (yet) from doing that, haha.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on October 19, 2012, 12:33:27 AM
I'm not sure if I agree with this strategy. I think rolling his taco (if they are jumping) after a knockdown is a safe way to escape and eliminates the guess work of trying to block it. Plus, does Iori really have enough time to catch someone rolling if his taco misses? I might have to test that out, but I've always found just rolling is good enough, I haven't gotten punished (yet) from doing that, haha.

He definitely can punish a roll attempt if he runs instantly when landing and cl.C's.  Should I rephrase to advise against it if he does, instead of just saying don't do it at all?
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on October 19, 2012, 12:47:08 AM
I'm not sure if I agree with this strategy. I think rolling his taco (if they are jumping) after a knockdown is a safe way to escape and eliminates the guess work of trying to block it. Plus, does Iori really have enough time to catch someone rolling if his taco misses? I might have to test that out, but I've always found just rolling is good enough, I haven't gotten punished (yet) from doing that, haha.

He definitely can punish a roll attempt if he runs instantly when landing and cl.C's.  Should I rephrase to advise against it if he does, instead of just saying don't do it at all?

He can't punish anyone at all, the opponent rolls too far away and he can't run that fast to get to hit anyone with a cl.C. I tested it a few times in training mode. If you have any evidence of this, show me.

Also, which way is he jumping in to do the cross up? Is it after the rekka knocks them down, Iori runs up then superjumps over them, or Iori runs briefly, does a superhop j.C then tacos over their head while they are crouching?

EDIT: After more testing, I found out its possible, but you really have to time the run correctly, and I was only able to get hit with EX Iori's s.C. So, if the opponent is rolling constantly during that set-up then its possible, I but I found it difficult to do.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on October 19, 2012, 06:12:40 AM
Sorry, st.C then.  I play vs a very good EX Iori from time to time and he always punishes when I roll from his tacos.  It's a scary thing to be forced into blocking the crossup all the time, but it is what it is.

DJMirror, sorry I didn't respond to you sooner.  Thanks for the info on Duo-Lon.  I'll try to condense it into a smaller paragraph for the sake of brevity.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on October 19, 2012, 03:15:06 PM
On the wiki I wouldn't advise saying "do not roll ever at all" but more saying around the fact that it is possible that the roll can be punished (if the opponent catches on and chooses to do so).
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on October 19, 2012, 11:49:13 PM
Done.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: karn on December 23, 2012, 06:58:04 PM
When someone tries to cross me up after knockdown oki when I am using Kula, I use her light Crow Bites(623A) (6 frame startup) in the opposite direction. Heavy Crow Bites (623C) is faster but has No Invincibility afaik. You can use the EX Crow Bites (623AC) instead since that one is 2 frames faster, is also invincible, and does 123 more more damage but I would rather spend her power meter in the corner where you get easy safe jump setups out of it (rather than just damage) unless you recognize that using EX Crow Bites will kill or that you need the increased speed. Since it's hard/impossible for a crossover attack to be safe from wakeups, Light Crow Bites with its 6 frame startup has been fast enough for me from my experience. However, If your opponent is really good at landing their crossups deep enough (like safe jumps) to block Light Crow Bites, I recommend adjusting to using EX Crow Bites. Watch out for jumps done so early they land before you get up though; those are used to bait wakeup DPs, but on the plus side, those kinds of jumps won't be able to hit you on the way down so you don't have to worry about any blockstun pressure from the jump itself.

I think it's better to counter crossups with invincible/antiair moves rather than block them because they'll get block pressure on you. It seems even more important to do this against characters like Iori, EX Iori, and Kyo since their air command normals have large hitboxes and cause outrageously long hitstun/blockstun; better players can hit confirm off of these crossover attacks by themselves (one hit confirms). Not challenging the crossup is giving them freedom to go for the crossup again and again, or mixup (maybe a followup hop C or empty crossover jump into low or command grab, frametrap, etc. I do hate playing against EX Iori though.

Rolling towards the direction EX Iori jumped from when he uses a badly spaced taco is usable for every character in the game; If Iori spaces and times the jump lazily, he may land too far from you to punish you with run-up close C, far C, DM, or EXDM, but rather than rolling, Kula's invincible Crow Bites (A or EX version) is a much better option imo.

Doing the anti-crossup Crow Bites the other way is easiest on wakeup when you can gauge opponent's height properly and know if their jump can be hit by Crow Bites or their jump is timed so early it's an attempt to bait you.

It's a lot harder to do when someone gets enough pressure on you to jump at you while you're on your feet though. There's a tricky vulnerability window to deal with between blocking them high in front and then doing the Crow Bites the other way as they cross over because it's hard to recognize when they've crossed over... Keep in mind that the same direction you're holding to block is going to be used for the starting motion of anti-crossup Crow Bites. You can try it out but I suggest stopping if it isn't working out for you and switching to rolling. Rolling is actually much safer against jumps when you're already on your feet since you can roll on reaction earlier during their jump (as opposed to when they have wakeup oki on you and they're already on the way down); they will take longer to land so they will probably not be able to punish you as easily (if at all).

In short:
1) Consider wakeup Crow Bites against unsafe crossups on wakeup. (Any character with an invincible fast antiair can do this)
2) Use rolls on reaction against close range jumps if you are free to move (on your feet, not in hitstun/blockstun, and no slow projectiles are in your way)
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on January 01, 2013, 08:47:13 PM
Hey Karn, thanks a lot for the contributions you've been making to the Kula forums lately.  I've been really busy the past two months and haven't had much chance to update the wiki (sorry guys), but there's a lot of great information that should be added.  I'll try to work on this in the coming weeks now that the holidays are settling down.

You're absolutely right, these crossups can be countered by reverse-input reversals.  I started doing this recently (mostly with EX DP) and it absolutely beats taking the blockstun pressure.  I'll add this as a note and include you in the list of contributors for the page.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: karn on January 02, 2013, 01:23:58 AM
Hey Karn, thanks a lot for the contributions you've been making to the Kula forums lately.  I've been really busy the past two months and haven't had much chance to update the wiki (sorry guys), but there's a lot of great information that should be added.  I'll try to work on this in the coming weeks now that the holidays are settling down.

You're absolutely right, these crossups can be countered by reverse-input reversals.  I started doing this recently (mostly with EX DP) and it absolutely beats taking the blockstun pressure.  I'll add this as a note and include you in the list of contributors for the page.

Cool thanks, and I'm happy to help; I've learned a lot about many characters thanks to the Dream Cancel wiki so I'm just giving back.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on January 02, 2013, 08:17:31 PM
Hey karn, from what I understood, DP+A had no startup invincibility - only C and EX did.  Is this incorrect?
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on January 02, 2013, 08:30:37 PM
A way to test invincibility on moves is having K's or Kula do f+A on someones wake up, then performing the move. Here is the original post http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg1486#msg1486 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg1486#msg1486)
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: karn on January 02, 2013, 08:55:56 PM
Hey karn, from what I understood, DP+A had no startup invincibility - only C and EX did.  Is this incorrect?

Yup, that's incorrect. I had taken for the granted that the wiki was right all the time, and was pretty frustrated when my dp.C kept getting stuffed...for quite a while I assumed I had wasted the invincibility frames by executing it too early and meeting opponent in the air and didn't really look into it. When I found I was never winning any trades at all I decided to test it out in training mode and found out it was terrible. It seems to make sense though:

dp.A is weaker, slower(6f according to the wiki though it seems a lot slower than that to me), and invincible on startup
dp.C is stronger and faster(4f) but has no invincibility so it's suited for combos

I've mentioned this in an earlier post, but any whenever using a dp.C against a crouching opponent, Kula players should always attempt to drive cancel it, since the drive cancel will only be possible for a dp.C that doesn't knock down (therefore you should want to use the drive cancel to EX Diamond Breath or B Ray Spin to ensure that they're knocked down!) If you feel it isn't worth the drive, it's better to light confirm to something else like Slider Shoot (df.B), EX Ray Spin or EX Diamond Edge (qcfqcfAC) to score that knockdown.

I still have to test if dp.AC always knocks crouchers down. I hardly feel compelled to use that move though I should maybe start blowing up poor safe jump attempts with it.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on January 02, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Great information, I'll correct that immediately.  Personally I relied heavily on EX DPs when I was having problems making C's "invulnerability" work.  Knowing A is actually invincible will change the way I play a lot.

I'll add your drive cancel option-select information as a note to the DP section.  Thanks again for your contributions.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: karn on January 15, 2013, 09:30:06 PM
Great information, I'll correct that immediately.  Personally I relied heavily on EX DPs when I was having problems making C's "invulnerability" work.  Knowing A is actually invincible will change the way I play a lot.

I'll add your drive cancel option-select information as a note to the DP section.  Thanks again for your contributions.

Glad to help. Here are some safe jump setups:
(Note: If you're too far when landing a dp.C, drive cancels won't work but you'll at least get the knockdown.)

3f Safe Hop attacks from light normal confirms:

[1 Stock 40% Screen]
Light Confirm to qcb.BD, qcb.B~f.B, qcb.A, qcb.A(whiff), 3f safe hop C

[1 Stock 1 Drive 60% Screen]
Light Confirm to dp.AC (DC) qcb.D, qcb.B~f.B, qcb.A, qcb.A(whiff), 3f safe hop C

[1 Stock 1 Drive 25% Screen]
Light Confirm to dp.C (DC) qcf.AC, qcf.C, qcb.D, qcb.B~f.B, qcb.A, qcb.A(whiff), 3f safe hop C

3f Safe Hop attacks from heavy normal confirms:

[1 Stock 1 Drive 50% Screen]
Heavy Confirm to qcf.AC, (walk/run up) dp.C (DC) qcb.D, qcb.B~f.B, qcb.A, qcb.A(whiff), 3f safe hop C

[1 Stock 25% Screen]
Heavy Confirm to qcf.AC, qcf.C, qcb.D, qcb.B~f.B, qcb.A, qcb.A(whiff), 3f safe hop C

Note: For any of the above 3f safe jump setups, you can replace [qcb.B~f.B] with [qcb.B, dp.C (DC) qcb.D, qcb.B~f.B] without ruining the safe jump timing if you would like to blow drive meter for a bit more damage.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: desmond_kof on February 10, 2013, 07:09:54 AM
Okay, doing some proofreading, I have to remove this from the pros section:


*B.  All B's.  'Nuff said.  (Just kidding, see the Normals section)


Let's replace this with something more helpful and less cryptic.
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: Amedø310 on May 27, 2013, 03:33:09 PM
Added the following in the Tips section:

Frame Traps

1.) qcf+A/C/AC, st. B

2.) qcf+A/C/AC cr. B

3.) close qcf+C/AC, cl. C

4.) close qcf+C/AC, cl. D

5.) qcf+AC, cr. D

6.) cl. C, qcf+A

7.) cl. D, qcf+A
Title: Re: Kula wiki building thread
Post by: JennyCage on September 25, 2013, 09:57:28 PM
Updated Kula's wiki a bit, added more frametraps, a stun combo, a 4 meter 96% and a 5 meter 100%.  Will probably be refining some of the existing combos in the next week. If anyone has anything to add, correct, etc., please don't hesitate to post.