Dream Cancel Forum
Pao Pao Cafe => Social Club => Topic started by: solidshark on December 30, 2011, 06:17:22 PM
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As a huge Metal Gear fan, I'm excited, yet torn on this one.
For those who've not seen yet, here's what it looked like at first (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjOudapVRKc#ws), the current build (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SNo8h-KfAU#ws), and the explanation behind the change. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV1BMUg4NsA#ws)
I'm on the fence with this because I liked where it was going, and I'm warming up more and more to what it's becoming now. Looking at it from the storyline point of view, I did want to see how Raiden became a cyborg ninja between MGS2 and 4, but I wonder if there were any suitable enemies for Raiden then, considering how only Vamp and a large tanker gave him trouble; btw for all intended purposes, he beat the boat - with his back.
It's sad to see another game that divides the MG fanbase, staring Raiden again, but I'm seeing more pros than cons here.
I can definitely see how people were pissed off at the trailer; I was shocked myself. Switching from Snake to Raiden in MGS2 shocked. It wasn't terrible, but it was a different direction. With all the information out there now, it's probably best it happens this way anyway.
My ideal version of this would've been the following:
-Platinum Games consulting or co-developing with KojimaPro
-left on the FOX engine (I loved how the cutscenes were mostly the same as the in-game graphics)
-have the story revolve around before and after MGS4
-more of the percision cutting and effects from the old build
-sped-up gameplay, varied gameplay (stealth+hack'n'slash+other)
-replace 'Revengance' with 'Lightning Bolt Action'
-and a more serious atmosphere and musical score.
That last point especially. Revengance could be much better received if it's actually closer to MGS4's tone than the trailer's tone, being philosophical about war and conflict versus being too gratuitious.
But between the production team, fans, and hardcore fans, the only way everyone was going to be happy with Rising would've been if they turned it into an extra MGS4 minigame where you're running around act 2 and maybe 4 as Raiden. Cutting up soldiers, gekkos, and the enviroment, playable boss fight against Vamp, cutscenes with Shinkawa art explaining Raiden's story, and done. A 2 to 3 hour chance to play the guy that no one wanted to play in MGS2 when they had to, and everyone wanted to play as in MGS4 when they couldn't.
With all that said, I can't wait to throw Ray in the air and whale on him in mid-air; I'm willing to overlook a lot to do that, hopefully I won't have to overlook much though.
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Honestly, I MUCH prefer the way it is now. The way it was before was just a tech demo. There was nothing to be excited about. I'd understand being more annoyed if there was an actual game built before hand, but there wasn't so...yeah.
As it is now, it's in the hands of a company that actually knows how to deliver on an action game, it's title changed to make EVERYONE know it's a spinoff (though yeah, Revengeance is probably pushing it). They changed the story (or at least, Platinum asked KojiPro to do it) in order to allow more freedom within the game, which is good. Gameplay ALWAYS comes first, especially when the story is such BS like it is with the MGS series. After the whole Arsenal Gear crap from MGS2 and then forward, the story was too far out there. Fuck that, don't care about the story, so make damn sure it doesn't restrict how you want to make the game.
They took the stealth out which WILL turn off a lot of MGS fans, and that's VERY understandable but...when Raiden's thrashing Metal Gear Ray's like they're nothing...kind of nothing to hide from (though now that I think back...he did solo 7 Rays in MGS2...so this isn't anything new for him lol).
The BEST way to find out how you feel about this game? Watch the whole commentary vid they did and crap where they discuss the history behind the making of this game. Watch it through it's entirety. I'll even link it.
INTERVIEW : The Truth Behind RISING (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV1BMUg4NsA#ws)
That will help your feelings on it, as it actually really solidified mine.
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I really don't know why fans of MGS are pissed at this. I'm a HUMONGOUS Metal Gear fan that has played and owned just about every game from their series. Hell, I have a Peacewalker PSP on me, have cosplayed Snake on Halloween, bought MGS4 before I had a PS3 and think MGS3 is one of the best games ever made and I still don't get it.
I understand that the stealth element is away, but I'm pretty sure I remembered people complaining about not being able to play as Raiden in MGS4. Now YOU CAN. There's also people complaining about how ridiculous it is. Okay, because Snake taking down superhumans, tanks, helicopters, Metal Gears and so on, Raiden stopping a ship single-handedly, and fighting guards and mech with a sword in his mouth or feet isn't ridiculous enough for you? Then there's the whole story aspect. IT'S NOT EVEN CANON!
I rest my case. I'm hype as hell for this. Platinum can do no wrong in my book. (With the small exception of the slightly disappointing Vanquish)
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Then there's the whole story aspect. IT'S NOT EVEN CANON!
As a Humongous MGS fan myself, I really want this to be cannon. Kojima was nice enough to give leeway to make it as cannon as Metal Gear Ac!d with was nice, especially in-case the story sucks. Problem is, going by the story, it already feels kind of cannon. At MGS4's end, Liquid Ocelot told Snake that stopping his plans turned the world not into Liquid's control, but into the wild west.
The wild west is EXACTLY what I see with Revengance. PMCs still around, going crazy with new tech, and a new gunman walks into town ready to bring everyone down. Interesting how the gunman looks to be more Jack the Ripper instead of just Jack.
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I honestly never really felt hyped for that game even when it first came out....I thought it was too gimmicky and now seeing that Platinum Games is steering the boat, I still am not hyped for the game...-______-...Don't get me wrong, I feel that Platinum Games is the perfect choice for it considering how over the top their games are however, no amount of story or action is going to hype me for it...Even with the upgrades Raiden got in MGS4 and in this game, I am still going to think "Look its the cartwheel nude person from MGS2" but now he can cut people like fruits lol....That's how I feel about it....
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Then there's the whole story aspect. IT'S NOT EVEN CANON!
As a Humongous MGS fan myself, I really want this to be cannon. Kojima was nice enough to give leeway to make it as cannon as Metal Gear Ac!d with was nice, especially in-case the story sucks. Problem is, going by the story, it already feels kind of cannon. At MGS4's end, Liquid Ocelot told Snake that stopping his plans turned the world not into Liquid's control, but into the wild west.
The wild west is EXACTLY what I see with Revengance. PMCs still around, going crazy with new tech, and a new gunman walks into town ready to bring everyone down. Interesting how the gunman looks to be more Jack the Ripper instead of just Jack.
The problem with this is that at the end of MGS4 Raiden hung up the sword for good. He went home and became a family man. It goes against the whole peaceful ending and resolution that MGS4 was going for. It was made to tie all the loose ends and end the vicious cycle that started since MGS3. In my opinion, I feel it was a definitive ending for the series, even if it wasn't perfect. To change that by putting Raiden back to killing, basically ruins that and starts the whole cycle again, basically destroying the whole point of MGS4.
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I'm sorry, but yet again, the story of MGS went to shit the second Raiden was knocked out by Snake and the whole Arsenal Gear shit went on and MGS4 was the biggest shitstorm of a game I've ever seen storywise.
All I care about is the gameplay. If you have a problem dealing with the possible story problems, that's on you, I just think it's a waste of stress.
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To be honest, I don't mind MGS2 all that much. It was a pretty clever tale of a dystopian future of media control. It was way ahead of its time and actually makes more sense now. I think the real offender was MGS4 that was completely unnecessary, convoluted and overdone. At this point it would behoove them to finally finish the Big Boss saga and reboot the series.
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No, don't bother to reboot the series. They should do the right thing, and stop making games for the series. End it, it's over. Unless they want to make nice side adventures to have fun in, there's no more reasons to make MGS games.
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But we all know Konami is not gonna let that happen, i think they even announced MGS5 was in development. So we will have MG for ever, even if the plot gets destroyed over and over.
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Yeah, I know, feels bad man.
I can live with it though as long as the gameplay is good.
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No, don't bother to reboot the series. They should do the right thing, and stop making games for the series. End it, it's over. Unless they want to make nice side adventures to have fun in, there's no more reasons to make MGS games.
You do understand the concept of money, right? That's a million, billion different reasons to make another MGS. They aren't going to stop making Metal Gears. They might as well reboot it and probably make a new protagonist or something, seeing how Snake's story is over.
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No, don't bother to reboot the series. They should do the right thing, and stop making games for the series. End it, it's over. Unless they want to make nice side adventures to have fun in, there's no more reasons to make MGS games.
You do understand the concept of money, right? That's a million, billion different reasons to make another MGS. They aren't going to stop making Metal Gears. They might as well reboot it and probably make a new protagonist or something, seeing how Snake's story is over.
I'm more in agreement with Saitsu that the series should end soon, or should've ended with MGS4. I actually like the MGS story throughout, but opinions and all that. Since at least the most popular of MG has been very much tied to Kojima, as long as he moves on, hopefully Konami will follow and let MG rest. Hoping for the best with Project Ogre.
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No, don't bother to reboot the series. They should do the right thing, and stop making games for the series. End it, it's over. Unless they want to make nice side adventures to have fun in, there's no more reasons to make MGS games.
You do understand the concept of money, right? That's a million, billion different reasons to make another MGS. They aren't going to stop making Metal Gears. They might as well reboot it and probably make a new protagonist or something, seeing how Snake's story is over.
then it will end up just like mgs 2 people are just gonna bitch up 38 storms because you cant play as snake
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Only reason that happened is that they marketed the ENTIRE based on Snake. The demo only showed the tanker and the commercials focused solely on Snake. You'd have been heated too if they lead you on only to find out that the real main character is a pretty boy with girl issues.
Rebooting the series with a new, fresh protagonist would be optimal. As much as I would like to see the series end too, it's not going to happen. Whether Kojipro does it or not, Konami is still going to make money off of Metal Gear, bet on it.
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I'm OK with a MG game with Liquid as the main character, and by Liquid i mean Liquid Snake, not Liquid Ocelot, but the last one woulnd't be that bad.
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Was going to make a long mention of this in the off-topic section, then decided to resurrect the old thread I made about it.
Konami Pre-E3 Show - Kojima Productions Segment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8y71P4BgA#ws)
It's a weird space to be in now, to love everything about the series up to this point (including the plot/story elements of MGS2 & 4 which most don't like but I find a high-point to the series) and LOVE where Revengance is just as much.
Now Revengance is at that point in-between the '10 tech demo and the new work Platinum has put in, elements drawn from both. The action...THE FUCKING ACTION. I should say something like "Platinum. That is all," but I've never been into saying something is gold based just on who's making it (minus KojimaPro), but Platinum is getting there for me. All the different types of enemies I was hoping was going to be there was there, and the extra weapons and sense of stealth is a nice bit of icing on a cake. I wish I could say something about the story, but I really don't know much more than what's already known.
Most interesting part of all this to see the reactions. The fanbase is still really split, between action lovers (in the DMC, Bayonetta, Vanquish styles), and MG"purists". The only ones that seem to have any consistent validity in their negativity are those who outright say "I don't like to play games like Bayonetta, etc". The rest, it scares me to see how many people forget the details of MGS so much that they want to write this game completely off.
"What is this shit. Looks like DMC and not MGS" - It's not MGS it's MGR, a cyborg ninja title. And go play MGS1&4 to refresh your memory on the capabilities of a cyborg ninja.
"Ninjas should use stealth and hide around" - Because of their vulnerabilites they used stealth, which Raiden hasn't had a need for since MGS2. He was out in the open in a lot of MGS4 because he didn't need stealth.
"2010 Fox Engine looked and played better" - Looked better, I agree but I love how PG gets at least close to what was. Played better is a hell of a guess.
"The story sucks" - As with any MG game, it's best to have it in your hands to see where the story goes. There was more story reveals in the VGA trailer than the E3 one. I do hope some of the elements going over Raiden's past in those "Make it Right" trailers are there, just to see Solidus' treatment of young Jack first-hand. Other than that, it's most likely cannon, and can most likely be treated as a side-story (affecting only a few characters in the universe versus all of them like any MGS did). And like I said in a previous post, this is the wild west Liquid Ocelot told Snake would be happening with the Patriots and GW's plans destroyed. "After the fall of the Patroits, cyborg technology runs rampant, and information flows freely."Love how anti-Cold war that sounds.
"The integrity of the franchise is lost" - lots of people are saying this without exactly saying this, and I do understand where they're coming from. More than anything it's the trailer's presentation that give people a bad feeling. The music and editing are probably PG's contribution more or less. I hope the in-game will still feel more MGS-ish in some sense.
"I'd still pay full price for a release of that 2010 tech demo" - as big a fan of MG I am, I might too. But since they couldn't take it beyond that, I have to assume the best it could've been without out-sourcing to PG is a slightly open-world mini-game where you got to be Raiden and slash everything.
Well, my rant's over for now. Just hope people from MG and non-MG backgrounds give this a fair shake equally now.
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Honestly, that tech demo wasn't as great as people make it out to be. Having that really slow slicing mechanic is all fine and dandy when facing enemies that stand completely still. No way it would've been terribly efficient for combat.
And as we see there ARE some stealth elements in the game. And while I've been the main one saying that there's absolutely no point in Raiden sneaking around, they could always find a way to force him too, for example a hostage situation or something of the sort so you can put at least some stealth in the game, but yeah, in the end it's unnecessary.
But yeah, back to the action, and yeah it looks damn good. No surprise there. What some of the MG "purists" that loved the tech demo seem to be missing though is that...with every new trailer, P* is actually reintroducing mechanics from the previous work into this game. Last time we saw the whole precision slicing mechanic, and they've taken it to another level here. Now they've reintroduced the whole cutting enemies for power or whatever (I completely forgot the name they used for it). While they're bringing in their own spirit, they have no problems bringing back the spirit of what the game had before, and people seem to be missing that.
As for the story, the MG story was already ass, and on top of that...KojiPro is writing the story for this too...so they're hypocrites. MGs work better when games are self-contained anyway. MGS1 and MGS3 are miles more enjoyable when you aren't constantly thinking about the ramifications for the rest of the series.
But I'll let them hate, the game looks great, P* is definitely releasing greatness between this and Anarchy Reigns.
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http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-metal-gear/731045 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-metal-gear/731045)
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Looks awesome so far. Kinda bummed that MGS fans seemed to be bothered it's not done by Kojima (which honestly, he's a very hit-or-miss writer IMO) himself so they dismiss it. Because yesterday I met a fan who pointed that out and told to at least give it a try. I have full faith in Platinum and honestly anything can be better than the crapfest that was MGS4's story. If they can run with the goofy, over-the-top action movie vibe, I think it'll work well. Kojima's actually a lot better when it comes to humor.
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Very happy that it is unstealth action by planitum. They chose the perfect developer, already had the story and art designs, just needed to bring the destruction.
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It's still got some stealth elements though. You can definitely sneak up on your opponents and chop them to bits.