Dream Cancel Forum
Sakazaki Dojo => Training Room => Topic started by: Ryyudo on January 08, 2012, 07:06:40 PM
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During a ranbat last night, I had, frustratingly, lost to a guy who has more rolls than a Kaiser ;P. He beat me twice during the tournament getting me an unacceptable 3rd ;P. Being new the series as a whole, I feel like while it's something that works as a gimmick, I shouldn't have lost to it. Though at my current state, I have no great answers and all I can do is respect the frustration it brings and the fact that it works... for now ;).
My opponent often played an okay zone game with fireballs, not really mixing them up, but rolled whenever I got in or made, what seemed like, a smart jump-in. There were times when he rolled in, and I couldn't grab him due to techs or getting cl.hp/hk instead. That or I'd mash (yes, mash ;P) c.lp/lk to try to punish but I'd get grabbed or he would block it. When I rolled though, he seemed to have next to no problem in catching me for damage. Athena's command grab seemed to be the real stopper, since I can't tech that.
So what's the data on rolls. How long is it invincible til before it can be punished? Can rolls not be thrown during a certain period, because it feels like I couldn't. Are the better tactics then grab/mash lows on an incoming roller? How would I sort of stop an opponent from rolling back all day and rolling circles around me to get away. Are there ways to stuff rolls BEFORE they happen if I know they're going to attempt for it?
tl;dr lemme know everything about dem ROLLS!
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Just normal throw 'em.
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i suggest sweep :) the recovery here in this kof are generous from the roll enough to time it.
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i suggest sweep :) the recovery here in this kof are generous from the roll enough to time it.
Hmm, I didn't think about sweeps. That would grant me oki, furthermore. I'll try putting some stock into that. :) Thanks
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Ran into an online player over the weekened that rolled a lot, until I employed the complex tactic of mashing crouching lows. If you have a character that can combo off of lows then even better.
Basically ended up shutting him down by mashing Kim's cr.B into combos. He stopped rolling.
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Ran into an online player over the weekened that rolled a lot, until I employed the complex tactic of mashing crouching lows. If you have a character that can combo off of lows then even better.
Basically ended up shutting him down by mashing Kim's cr.B into combos. He stopped rolling.
I tried doing that a few times, even in practice mode. I just randomly don't end up mashing properly for some reason. But I got some timing down on when to start expecting the kicks to hit. Unfortunately, doing lows are Shen's weakness, and I'm not good with his HD confirm from cr.Bs yet. I'm gonna work with that more hopefully before the tournament. lol. Thanks :)
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If you have a command grab, use it. He won't be able to tech out of it. You can also just attack him with most everything as he recovers.
Edit: Oh and since you're using Shen, he's got hcb,f+P so you could use that instead of mashing cr.B. Negate her projectiles with a qcb+C, or even sacrifice a meter or two for a super.
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rolls are a bitch...i have come across that shit myself and i also do it unconciously but rolls are invincible at the beginning and and you can rape them with attacks at the end of the rolls
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First of all, try to familiar with rolling frames, so when at beginning of rolling quickly detect that and react properly.
Only first frames have invincibility.
If you use a grab char, you can use a command throw, also, with practice you can do a grab DM.
When I have not a grab char I prefer use cr.A, instead cr.B (if A is quicly) , lot of times people do guard or punish me when I do cr.B
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I hit the lab with some rolls and got a better feel for the invuln time, and when it ends. I think that might have been one of my biggest things, because a mistimed anything can miss completely and the person can roll roll roll away.
If you have a command grab, use it. He won't be able to tech out of it. You can also just attack him with most everything as he recovers.
Edit: Oh and since you're using Shen, he's got hcb,f+P so you could use that instead of mashing cr.B. Negate her projectiles with a qcb+C, or even sacrifice a meter or two for a super.
Yeah, I watched some videos and just realized how stupid I was against the projectile game. All three of my characters have anti-fireball tech and I failed to use them, along with Shen's command grab to catch rolls. No one else really abuses rolls like this guy, so it won't really have as much practicality until I see him again, which will probably be tournament time (which got delayed :( ). But I'm definitely a lot more mentally prepared and equipped with better technology for facing him.
Thank you sirs/ma'ams for your answers :)
I do use the Super at least... but that in turn has made people afraid to test my reactions from midscreen hahaha.
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If your characters have cr. attacks that are able to cancel to full combos go for it. Either that or grab while hes rolling. What i really like to do is bait the roll out, kinda watch when your opponent tries to roll. Whenever you do a certain blockstring on even a fireball see how he responds to that and act accordingly. If he rolls after your throw a full screen projectile try throwing out the slower version run behind it if possible you see him roll throw him. Also you can punish rolls sometimes with supers but that is a little risky and I'm not so sure when the timing is exactly but I've done it a few times. You feel a little gutsy go for the DM but I would test it out before-hand.
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The only thing I would mention about rollers that hasn't been said is the mindset. Most rollers that spam it are not in full control of their players meaning that they roll to look for an opening. Just playing a little extra defensive and flushing them out with a mid range attack style usually works cause they use rolls like a SF players use a fireball.
Now someone who rolls heavy and does have good control usually is rolling with a pattern. The classic ones are the full screen run then roll or a mid range roll twice then attack. You can usually pick up the pattern pretty quick if you know what you are looking for. Everything else, again, has already been covered (what to attack with).
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If the opponent doesn't jump, but rolls past projectiles, the fireball traps will work wonders, too, especially if you have a character with a long reaching move that can possibly knockdown like Kensou's c.D.
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Just try to figure out when they use rolls the most. Trust me, when you counter their rolls they will most likely stop doing it unless they are mentally handicapped.
Applying pressure without being predictable is a good way to handle them. When you have the advantage you will be able to bait them into rolling, or just keep them guarding.
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I went into last night's ranbat with a pocket full of information from this thread. 2-0'd him :) Thanks a lot guys, I hella appreciate it!
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Semi-necro bumping this with a question
Is a wake up roll immediately throwable?
My main training partner mashes wake up roll.. a lot.. I typically try to do back/forward C as he does wake up roll, assuming he'd be thrown immediately, and if he just blocked, then I'd a cl.C do to wake up throw invul.
Yet, he seems to just roll through my cl.C every time. Does the wake up throw invul maintain itself through the roll? or do rolls just not become throwable until a certain point? Or am I scrub and my timing is just terrible.
edit: for clarity sake, I'm not talking about the ground tech roll on soft knockdowns, but, wake up roll, as in the first frame he gets from knockdown, he rolls forward, especially out of the corner.
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Is a wake up roll immediately throwable?
No it isn't, fully invincible until the roll animation finish.
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But you can grab him at the first wake up frame (ie at the end of the roll, if he doesn't wake up faster with a roll you can't throw for a few frames).
Some advanced stuff to punish heavy rollers :
[KOFXIII] Anti Roll Option Select (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MQOM7HJNHM#)
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I'm not sure, i don't think rolls have any throw invincibility at all, but if you're option selecting you might just be doing it too soon you know. I'd recommend useing feints instead and throw on reaction. Example; throw out one or two c.B's before your opponent gets up so he might end up thinking you're going for that and then just block to see if he rolls or throws something out.