Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Billy Kane => Topic started by: jinxhand on January 30, 2012, 06:26:01 PM
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Post up questions about specific matchups, and those that know, please provide that good info (punishers, char. specific combos, etc).
Eventually, what I want to do is update this thread with confirmed info for each character (grouped as teams obviously), to avoid people having to surf through a bunch of scattered posts just to find info for 1 character...
Oh yeah, just in case, those that post up info, please make sure you make it known what matchup you're talking about, so people won't be like "huh?"... Let's Go!!!
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Against Clark if you get auto-guarded by B SAB then instantly do f+A or dp+BD... If you did a jump-in then try to hop again right away and do hop forward C+D...
Against any command throws (even the fast recovery ones) if you predict them, you can do hop forward C+D... You'll land a counter hit everytime... You know what happens next...
j.C+D, f+B, dp+B, hcf+C~qcf+C = 307 dmg (0 meter)
j.C+D, f+B, dp+B, hcf+C~qcf+C, DC, qcb+C, *slight delay* dp+B, DM = 500+ dmg (1 meter + 1 drive)
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Speaking of Clark, c.A works wonders against him... Obviously you can't do too much close proximity poking or you'll get thrown, so things like b+A, j.C, and the occassional j.C+D helps...
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Speaking of Clark, c.A works wonders against him... Obviously you can't do too much close proximity poking or you'll get thrown, so things like b+A, j.C, and the occassional j.C+D helps...
c.A is the primary tool for most grappler characters like clark, raiden and daimon in order to keep them away. For me once i create the distance, I can start doing moves like b+A, qcb+P, hcf+A, and j.C to keep them from trying to come in.
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What do you guys think are Billy's bad matchups and also really advantageous matchups?
Bad matchups: EX Kyo. Just because (like I mentioned) Kyo's jumping down C will beat the cr.C AA and if EX Kyo guesses right he can blow up your pokes. Benimaru can also give him trouble with his standing D (or C I forget) that leg poke is really good at keeping Billy out but his cr.A is a good anti-poke.
Fray: Raiden. Billy's jumping C will beat every one of Raiden's jump in's and his cr.C will beat Raiden's Shoulders clean.
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So I just realized how strong Athena is against Billy this time around... Anyone have experience with this matchup???
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So I just realized how strong Athena is against Billy this time around... Anyone have experience with this matchup???
Oh, yes.
I know a guy who has a very good Athena, and at first he was destroying my Billy.
Funny thing is when I got someone else (Takuma, Shen, Ryo) it was a totally different thing.
To me, a very good Athena is Billy's worst matchup by far. Good fireball characters can give Billy some hard times, Kensou and King (in that order) can do some damage but I think Athena is godlike againts Billy.
What do you guys think are Billy's bad matchups and also really advantageous matchups?
Bad matchups: EX Kyo. Just because (like I mentioned) Kyo's jumping down C will beat the cr.C AA and if EX Kyo guesses right he can blow up your pokes. Benimaru can also give him trouble with his standing D (or C I forget) that leg poke is really good at keeping Billy out but his cr.A is a good anti-poke.
I really don´t agree on Kyo (regular or EX) nor Benimaru.
Benimaru and Andy can be real assholes but with Billy you have many ways of shutting them down.
I mentioned Andy because I think he has a lot of stuff that can be really problematic for other characters, but with Billy, you just pressure. When both Andy and Benimaru try to jump, you can jump C and cr C to destroy them. Both characters are extrematelly good when they leave the ground, but for some reason Billy can easilly remove that part of their game.
As I mentioned earlier, the worst matchups for Billy, at least in my opinion, are very good fireball characters.
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I don't think Athena is worse for Billy primarily because of her fireballs... That isn't to say they don't pose a threat to him, because well from the start of the match, he has to reach her... Sure, there's j.C that can "snipe" her attacks, but it's at the risk of trading hits, and/or getting hit by something bigger... She controls the air and can lock him down without real fear of anything-- unless Billy has meter for EX dp... Other than that, crouching C won't do any good against most of her main attacks...
Out the gate, he needs to take that momentum and potential zoning away from her, while possibly baiting either a command grab, dp (especially on wake up), and her super (possibly on wake up, too)...
Billy can't destroy fireballs with his Senpuukon, or his hcf+P specials...
Kensou shouldn't be too hard, as his aerial attacks aren't stronger than Billy's... You can bait a whiff qcf, hcb+P, as well as his rdp+K, since most times you have to be up close for those to hit... If you're playing against a Kensou that loves to hit confirm into rdp+K, then you're probably not gonna see him do one as an AA, unless he just specializes in that move primarily... Even with his fireball setups, you're more than likely are gonna stop his momentum with f+A at some point, in which he'll have to change up his strategy... Crouching C can beat out his air normals most of the time, so once you get that, go into f+A to close in...
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Benimaru and Andy can be real assholes but with Billy you have many ways of shutting them down.
I mentioned Andy because I think he has a lot of stuff that can be really problematic for other characters, but with Billy, you just pressure. When both Andy and Benimaru try to jump, you can jump C and cr C to destroy them. Both characters are extrematelly good when they leave the ground, but for some reason Billy can easilly remove that part of their game.
As I mentioned earlier, the worst matchups for Billy, at least in my opinion, are very good fireball characters.
Eh, when I was playing a Beni he was using Jumping D quite a bit and it just flat out beat my cr.C everytime. Same thing with Ryo and Takuma/Mr.Karate's Jumping D as well. But in my experience Beni can keep Billy out without many problems and can play a good counter-poking game.
Weird thing I've notced and I brought it up with Running Wild: It seems like Mai of all characters really counters Billy. Her zoning can give him trouble and her jumping CD will beat pretty much anything Billy does in the air, so say goodbye to jumping C pressure.
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To me Billy's only weakness is exposed when he has no meter, which is not having any reversals in his artillery... Since I use him on anchor, that weakness never gets exploited...
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I somewhat agree, his crouching C is just an amazingly good AA that gets beaten out cleanly by only a handful of Characters. His EX Upkicks I only use as an AA if (A) they have low health or (B) I desperately need to get them off and get in there and have enough meter to spare for Clark/Hwa or (C) I can land it and continue it in the corner.
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Yeah d.C is great with no meter... If you're trying to land EX dp+K though, don't do it when the opponent has little to no health though... Why? You don't get to do max damage combos, which help build back the meter you used...
I'll say if you manage to play Billy well enough to build meter rather quickly, and if the matchup is looking good, then do it whenever... But if you're going up against say Athena, Beni, Kyo, EX Iori, or someone "stronger", you're gonna have to save that meter to bait a whiff or low priority move so EX dp+K can beat it out...
I feel another weakness is that Billy doesn't have any really good command overhead like Kyo, or Iori does... He got his df+A that he got in 2003 taken from him. Granted, it was slow, but it did work especially if you're constantly rushing down and you change the pace without notice... Now, for the most part, you have to either risk trading hits with j.C, attmempt a crossup with j.D, rushdown and hope for a CH in the corner with j.CD, or shoot for a quick overhead with j.B. All of his overheads are jumping. b+A doesn't hit overhead, and f+B is a no-no if you're not using it in a combo, or if you're creative and use it to close the gap when the opponent is down... His air game isn't what it used to be like the older KOFs, but he still does shine with a good ground game, and I don't think giving him an overhead would make him OP either, especially if it was his df+A...
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hey guys, you say athena is a very bad match up for Billy. could any of you explain a bit further about the match up? my whole team i feel a huge disadvantage against Billy (Andy / Athena / Terry), i would like to read more atleast on what athena can do against this guy, especially since its considered Billys worst match up?
I feel like athena has no options here but her fireball... and fireballs alone certainly arent going to win the round. getting close to billy is no simple task... air or ground; anything i throw out trying to approach, i get punished by his superior range. if i try and be more cautious, i end getting reduced to blocking the whole round until my inevitable KO.
what is athena doing that makes Billy players feel at a such a huge disadvantage? surely it cant just be her fireball.
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I don't think Athena is bad you just have to work at not being baited by her. Because Athena excels at runaway and most players want to frustrate you to make a mistake and they can get that one opening and do big damage and then repeat the runaway process again.
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Like Athena, King is a bad matchup for Billy IMHO. Between her slide, j.CD and air fireballs it can keep a Billy at bay real easily.
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Yeah, a good King can lame out and play run away or bait for a CH dp+B/D, and combo accordingly... Patience and knowing when to use f+A helps...
Athena shouldn't have to get to Billy to win, but when she is, Athena is less of a problem imo, but still a threat regardless... She's got fireball, a fast cr.B, dp, command grab, and EX fireball which is almost annoying as Saiki's super. You have to know when to either grab, f+A (there's that magic move again), cr.C, or use the occasional dp+BD (or at least when to bait for it)...
Anybody here have solid info vs Leona??? It sure seems like you should run through her easily, but not with good spacing I can only get a very small amount of damage, and even that is range-dependant. The Leona player plays extremely safe with pokes and such, but that's about it. I can get at least a qcf+A off of her j.D, qcb+A (not sure if that's correct) if blocked, but it does little damage. Any ideas???
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How does the match-up vs Ralf is supposed play out? I know you can keep him out with the long-range pokes,but is anything else that I should be looking for?
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Yeah, a good King can lame out and play run away or bait for a CH dp+B/D, and combo accordingly... Patience and knowing when to use f+A helps...
Athena shouldn't have to get to Billy to win, but when she is, Athena is less of a problem imo, but still a threat regardless... She's got fireball, a fast cr.B, dp, command grab, and EX fireball which is almost annoying as Saiki's super. You have to know when to either grab, f+A (there's that magic move again), cr.C, or use the occasional dp+BD (or at least when to bait for it)...
Anybody here have solid info vs Leona??? It sure seems like you should run through her easily, but not with good spacing I can only get a very small amount of damage, and even that is range-dependant. The Leona player plays extremely safe with pokes and such, but that's about it. I can get at least a qcf+A off of her j.D, qcb+A (not sure if that's correct) if blocked, but it does little damage. Any ideas???
How about DP, qcb+P, level 1 / level 2 super, or a hop/jump CD? The last one would be nice if air qcb+P for Leona puts her in a counter-hit state.
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Against Kyo, how do you handle repeated blockstring -> HCF + k blockstring ender -> repeat?
The HCF+K is only -1 on block, which means if I try to punish, I've got literally nothing that's fast enough to beat his close C, and I have to be frame perfect to beat his crouching B.
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Against Kyo, how do you handle repeated blockstring -> HCF + k blockstring ender -> repeat?
The HCF+K is only -1 on block, which means if I try to punish, I've got literally nothing that's fast enough to beat his close C, and I have to be frame perfect to beat his crouching B.
There is a gap between the first and second kick of Kyo's qcf+B. See if you can reversal in between that with his dp+BD or at least his cr. C. Let me know what you find. :)
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Ah, I didn't realize there was a gap in the blockstun there.
EX DP works, of course. Tough to do (seems like it'd probably be nearly impossible online?), and, unfortunately, requires meter.
Crouch C, it's hard to know for certain (since I can't rely on button-hold to get normals out on first possible frame like I can specials), but I couldn't manage to get it out without it getting stuffed.
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Ah, I didn't realize there was a gap in the blockstun there.
EX DP works, of course. Tough to do (seems like it'd probably be nearly impossible online?), and, unfortunately, requires meter.
Crouch C, it's hard to know for certain (since I can't rely on button-hold to get normals out on first possible frame like I can specials), but I couldn't manage to get it out without it getting stuffed.
You can also try to roll in-between the kicks too. But at most, just blocking and reading the persons blockstrings may be the best and safest option.
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Aren't I pretty much obligated to hit a button (or try to roll-escape, although that technically does require hitting buttons) against this kind of pressure eventually, though? I mean, if I don't hit a button of some sort either between the two kicks or after the special, there's nothing stopping a Kyo player from just doing a close C -> command normal sweep thing I don't know the name of -> HCF B string forever until he guard-breaks me, getting a combo from the guard break, and then starting the blockstring cycle again on my wakeup.
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Aren't I pretty much obligated to hit a button (or try to roll-escape, although that technically does require hitting buttons) against this kind of pressure eventually, though? I mean, if I don't hit a button of some sort either between the two kicks or after the special, there's nothing stopping a Kyo player from just doing a close C -> command normal sweep thing I don't know the name of -> HCF B string forever until he guard-breaks me, getting a combo from the guard break, and then starting the blockstring cycle again on my wakeup.
You can blowback if you have meter if you don't want to block it or if you are in fear of getting guard crushed, but if that pressure string is something they do often, you can always try to either roll inbetween the qcf+B kicks or reversal. You have to let him know that there are holes in that string and you will punish him or at least escape safely.
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Imo, your best bet is to just wait during his strings and as soon as he does upkicks you punish between its two hits with srk.B+D. You could probably do d.C but the problem with that is that the delay in the game (4f for normals 1f for specials) makes it so that you have to be early and more precise with d.C while button hold and a slight bit more time to react makes specials so much more efficient. You can't punish him everytime ofcourse, but you don't have to aslong as you teach him that upkicks on block are actually bad.