Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Sie Kensou => Topic started by: nilcam on July 27, 2010, 02:47:55 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/kensou.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Command Moves
Backflip Feint - ;b ;d
Special Moves
Chokyudan - ;qcb ;a / ;c *
Ryutouda - ;qcf ;a / ;c
∟ ;qcf ;a / ;c (Ryutetsushou)
∟ ;qcf ;b / ;d (Hasei Shitsukuu Zanryuu)
Ryubokko - ;dp ;a / ;c *
Ryugakusai - ;rdp ;b / ;d *
Ryusogeki - ;qcb ;a / ;c (in air) *
Sikuzanryukyaku - ;qcf ;b / ;d *
Desperation Moves
Super Chokyudan - ;qcb ;qcb ;a / ;c *
Super Punch Drill - ;qcf ;hcb ;a / ;c
Neomax
Seigan Senki Hakkei - ;qcf ;qcf ;a ;c
Kensou's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sie_Kensou_(XIII)).
Console changes:
*Air EX qcb.P starts up faster
*s.B>C is now a target combo. Follow ups possible after it hits.
*His punch super is now a 1 frame throw
*When air qcb.P hits, it can be canceled with a special or greater
*His fb’s recovery time is improved
Yamamoto:
Aside from being a good way to disrupt guard, his punch super can be used effectively to catch opponents who roll past his fb. His fb game has improved and can be used as a central strategy now that the recovery is better. His air qcb.P can be cancelled with any special and the new s.B>C target combo can be linked by following with c.B or s.D. I recommend using these changes aggressively along with his fb whilst minding distances.
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Wow no love for Kensou.
Anyway, does Kensou's NeoMAX move foward like his Chokyudan specials?
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I don't think it moves forward, but this is really a thread for THE ANSWER coz he mains him.
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Combos
No Gauge
- cr. B, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K
- cr. A×1~2, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K
1 Meter/50% Drive
- cr. Bx2, qcf+P~qcf+P, (DC) qcf+AC~qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K
- cr. Bx2, rdp+BD (7), (DC delay) qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K
HD Combo
- st. C, [HD] st. C, qcf+P~qcf+P, [HDC] (rdp+D (2), [HDC] qcf+P~qcf+P)x2, [HDC] qcf+P~qcf+P, [HDC] rdp+D (4), [HDC delay] qcb+C, qcbx2+AC
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Wow no love for Kensou.
Anyway, does Kensou's NeoMAX move foward like his Chokyudan specials?
barely, if at all. the overall HUGENESS of his neomax covers the need for the range.
at first I hated this kensou, but hes growing on me
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4UXqvRAnSg
Some good Kensou footage here, his backstep command looks pretty cool since he can use it to quickly cancel st./cr. normals, anyone got some information to share?
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So, with all the play of Sie from yesterdays videos, a few questions came to mind:
>> Are his EX Rekka's worth using? You really don't see it that often, and I guess this is just because they use him as a battery, but it's a shame to see so underutilized.
>> No one uses Ryubokko: ;fd ;dn ;df ;a / ;c or the DM variant (Super Punch Drill). Why not? They easily seem like easy/cheap give Kensou solid ways to stuff on some damage, and cancelling from the regular version into DM version seems like it's be a great way to cause even serious pain. or Maybe from the Rekka's into the EX version of Ryubokko?
>> Can he combo any jump-ins on grounded opponents into Ryusogeki ( ;dn ;db ;bk ;a / ;c in air ), especially EX? Or is the start up too slow? Any Post-EX version combo possibilities on grounded opponents, or is this only possible when it's used to juggle aerial opponents?
And a random note, in this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZHnjfg4j5Y), a Kensou hit a bit more than a character space away, hit with Chokyudan, and then used Sikuzanryukyaku ( ;dn ;df ;fd ;b / ;d) to land a quick 3 hit combo. No cancels or anything. Didn't think his fireball recovery was fast enough to pull something like that off. Makes me wonder if he has eny other potential with moves on fireball hit.
Any insights into any of this, or more, would be good! ^_^
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>> Are his EX Rekka's worth using? You really don't see it that often, and I guess this is just because they use him as a battery, but it's a shame to see so underutilized.
I can't answer most of your questions, but I think his "normal rekkas -(DC)-> ex rekkas -> kick finish" is a useful combo. Decent damage for mid-screen, one bar and 50% drive, and does a lot to push the opponent back.
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So I'm adding some info to the Wiki, and realize I don't know the name of Kensou's throw. I've looked around, but can't find it anywhere.
Would anyone be able to help out?
Edit: Here's the current Kensou page:
http://www.dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sie_Kensou_%28XIII%29
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So I'm adding some info to the Wiki, and realize I don't know the name of Kensou's throw.
It's Ryuhoutsu.
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Sup everyone!! I need some help with Kensou for some reason i can't pull off his basic cr. B, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K.
If anyone have any tips and combos that i can work on please let me know.
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Sup everyone!! I need some help with Kensou for some reason i can't pull off his basic cr. B, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K.
If anyone have any tips and combos that i can work on please let me know.
You'll need to cancel the d.B a little faster if that's the case. You might wanna try d.B, s.B -> qcf+A instead.
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Ah i see i will give it a try later on tonight, But thanks for the Tip Ash!
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Or cr.B, cr.A > qcf+P
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Sup everyone!! I need some help with Kensou for some reason i can't pull off his basic cr. B, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K.
If anyone have any tips and combos that i can work on please let me know.
I always had trouble canceling off d.Bs like Beni, Kensou etc...and hence always preferred canceling off d.As if possible. For me at least, a lot of times I kept using the timing for chaining (which is after the d.B finishes) because that what most characters do with d.B, they chain (into d.A) and not cancel. Just remind yourself you're interrupting the d.B frame into qcf+P.
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From the Japanese bbs - 100% Combo HD combo, 5 supers
(corner) j.D, C -> BC, C -> rdp+B (1hit) -> HDC qcb+C -> HDC qcbx2+AC, [rdp+B (3hits) -> HDC air qcb+C, qcb+A] x2, rdp+B (2hit) -> MC Neomax
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In what situations would you use Kensou's dp+P multi-punch move? I never see any one use it during matches.
Actually, I could say the same thing for his qcf+K (standalone) move. Is it ever a good punish?
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http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjY5MTg2MzQ0.html
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In what situations would you use Kensou's dp+P multi-punch move? I never see any one use it during matches.
Actually, I could say the same thing for his qcf+K (standalone) move. Is it ever a good punish?
My friend loves using the dp+P attack. Always seemed funny. xD
Gameplay wise, I'm not sure how good it is in serious games.
qcf+k does make a good punish and the EX version does make him jump earlier, making it a better punish. The problem with it is that you'll lack juggle combo options afterwards. For example, you could have done an rdp+K [DC] qcb+P combo instead.
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Any tips for DCing his rdp+K move into (air)qcb+P?
I've had the best luck canceling his rdp+D on the third hit into qcb+C, but can't get the timing down consistently.
Following this DC up with his fireball DM seems to offer good midscreen damage, especially with his EX DM. If only I could get the timing.
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Any tips for DCing his rdp+K move into (air)qcb+P?
I've had the best luck canceling his rdp+D on the third hit into qcb+C, but can't get the timing down consistently.
Following this DC up with his fireball DM seems to offer good midscreen damage, especially with his EX DM. If only I could get the timing.
The Answer plays him enough to know the timing, but I remember when I messed around with him you just cancel it when you're high enough (but not the last few hits). I don't remember the timing being strict but I don't play him often and maybe I got lucky.
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tried out Kensou today... and damn he is awesome... i never liked him before... but now he is fast and has good tools... was trying out his corner combo from the combo video posted a little while back... it's kinda hard but it's really awesome... nearly 50% for 1 drive and 1 super meter... not to mention that it completely builds back 1 whole super bar...
hop D, s.D, rdp+BD, DC, qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+CC, qcf+CC, rdp+D...
one question about this combo from the first page "cr. Bx2, rdp+BD (7), (DC delay) qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K"... does it require the corner? i couldn't get it to work mid-screen...
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one question about this combo from the first page "cr. Bx2, rdp+BD (7), (DC delay) qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K"... does it require the corner? i couldn't get it to work mid-screen...
Yes that is a corner only combo,I'm glad you like Kensou his a good character to learn the game engine and with practice can compete at high level play.
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is Kensou's air qcb+A/C safe? and is the qcf+B/D safe as well? and do EX versions of both moves have any invincibility?
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I've got a question:
I've noticed that his Ryutouda does five hits when you do the EX version of it. Does that mean you have to do ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a or ;c four times before you finish it off with ;dn ;df ;fd + ;b or ;d?
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I've got a question:
I've noticed that his Ryutouda does five hits when you do the EX version of it. Does that mean you have to do ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a or ;c four times before you finish it off with ;dn ;df ;fd + ;b or ;d?
Exactly.
Well, technically the first input is qcf+AC, then three qcf+A or C, and lastly qcf+K. But you get the idea.
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i didn't get a reply yet... is Kensou's air qcb+A/C safe? and is the qcf+B/D safe as well? and do EX versions of both moves have any invincibility and are they safer than the normal versions? also is a single qcf+A/C safe? sometimes i felt like i got punished for it...
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i didn't get a reply yet... is Kensou's air qcb+A/C safe? and is the qcf+B/D safe as well? and do EX versions of both moves have any invincibility and are they safer than the normal versions? also is a single qcf+A/C safe? sometimes i felt like i got punished for it...
Kensou's air qcb+A/C is not safe in general, you can be punish in multiple ways by most of the characters. However you can make it somewhat safe by doing it and aiming to your opponents feet which will give you a bigger gap on recovery, but even then some characters can still punish you. I wouldn't recommend doing this move unless you know it going to hit. The ex version is safe on block, and the chip and guard damage are good.
I'll answer the second part shortly.
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In what situations would you use Kensou's dp+P multi-punch move? I never see any one use it during matches.
Actually, I could say the same thing for his qcf+K (standalone) move. Is it ever a good punish?
I think there is... I've only been studying Kensou this day so don't expect that it's an awesome combo.
umm probably like..
jump+ D - std+ D - B+C Cancel- std+ D - rdp+D - hcf+ CC - dp+ C - hcf+CC - dp+ A+C... (and chain up if you can, not so good with his timing yet.
it's gon' be like friggin son goku punches =)))
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I just remembered that I was able to use kensou back when I was prep (seriously) =)) IT was like a reall old version of KOF! sir nilcam's avatar reminded me =)) I'm starting to like using him again!
Him and the "Siopao's" :))
btw, I also watched sir The Answer's videos during the arcade infinity tournament and learned a few moves. Thanks sir ^:)^
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I finally understand the requirement for dp+P. In order the get the full damage of dp+P (safely), the move has to end on it's 14th hit.
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So there are no changes in console version?
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The only change I can tell you for Kensou right now, is that he has a new animation for his Super Punch Drill DM. Instead of puffing up his chest, and going to town with punches.... he forms his hands before him, as if to stun you with a palm stike, possibly an animation from the fireball shot of his neomax.
To be clear, I think it only effects the startup, the DM itself I believe is the same.
WHY is this startup frame different? I didn't figure out. I would LIKE to think that it means that he's been given a variation between button presses, with one button either having more range, or one version being a DM grab (not like he hasn't had one before, right?).
It's one of the few cases where I can say an animation from the arcade seems to bave been REMOVED... so I'd have to image the change means something, y'know?
Maybe we'll discover it's true purpose from Gamescon testing...
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His multi-punch DM is now a 1 frame grab.
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His multi-punch DM is now a 1 frame grab.
wow really!? cool... seems like a good change to me, now that he has more tools to work with.
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His multi-punch DM is now a 1 frame grab.
I was aware of this but does it still have its cancel properties?
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His multi-punch DM is now a 1 frame grab.
I was aware of this but does it still have its cancel properties?
That's all I know. No.17 got the info straight from Yamamoto-san.
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Sounds like a very good change, then! That's what we suspected when we saw the change, but while attempting to grab with it, it seemed to whiff... might have been cancelled too fast out of a block string or something.
Giving him a grab mixup should help his game greatly. I'd like to think that, like Hwa, he has 2 varieties (one button for a ranged variation, one for close-range grab), but we'll have to see how that turns out.
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His multi-punch DM is now a 1 frame grab.
It's really this, atm on the console version, someone used it.
Also a new target combo s.B,s.C if i heard accurately, it's not special cancelable but leads to easy hd mode combo.
The character will be tested live on eLive tomorrow. Come to ask question when Kensou is on tests or write them here i'll report them.
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Well then I'll drop a few questions here, just to be safe! ^_^
- Any modification to his Ryutoda punch series? Maybe they added the ability to free cancel into a 2nd ender, or made Hasei Shitsukuu Zanryuu have different ending properties depending on button press?
- Sikuzanryukyaku is almost like a command throw, with the "Press aganist" hit. Can he drive cancel out of that hit now, possibly?
- Any changes to Ryubokko? Check full duration of punches, on each button, if possible.
- So Super Punch Drill is now a Grab DM. Test both button strengths for variations, and check to see if it somehow has an EX version.
- Check for general EX move changes.
- Check to make sure that, by some magic, far C didn't become an overhead ^_^ (Always looked like one...)
Cool to hear about him possibly having a target combo, especially since his s.b is a low hit.
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Well then I'll drop a few questions here, just to be safe! ^_^
- Any modification to his Ryutoda punch series? Maybe they added the ability to free cancel into a 2nd ender, or made Hasei Shitsukuu Zanryuu have different ending properties depending on button press?
- Sikuzanryukyaku is almost like a command throw, with the "Press aganist" hit. Can he drive cancel out of that hit now, possibly?
- Any changes to Ryubokko? Check full duration of punches, on each button, if possible.
- So Super Punch Drill is now a Grab DM. Test both button strengths for variations, and check to see if it somehow has an EX version.
- Check for general EX move changes.
- Check to make sure that, by some magic, far C didn't become an overhead ^_^ (Always looked like one...)
Cool to hear about him possibly having a target combo, especially since his s.b is a low hit.
I liked how they made characters that didn't have (useable) command attacks, have this new link to help with HD activations confirmations; I suppose Benimaru should get one too then--someone should check.
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So, we got to see the new version of Super Punch Drill this morning. It's a grab, Sie blows away your guard, and then takes his deep breath, and beats on you for 50 hits, before smashing you away across the screen.
We also got to see that his new target combo is easy to HD confirm with, as expected. Similiar to Mai, he can double crouch ;b, stand ;b -> ;c, then go into HD. Combo is not cancelable under normal conditions.
Air dive is fairly safe if done to about mid-body of the opponent, in way down. EX version allows you to combo afterwards, and is even safer. This property should be consistent with arcade version, but it's nice to note anyhow.
No new enders to his combos seen. Everything else seemed pretty much the same.
Still wish we would see more use of Ryubokko, though we least we got to see it's 14 hit "perfect ending" variation used. I would suspect it's impossible to come out of this into Super Punch Drill anymore, but it's not like anyone did that ANYWAY, right? ;) Though the EX version of this move might be what to combo into, if you want DM like damage after a string of normals.
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anyone got any tips on
(qcf+p>qcf+p>rdp+D)x3
I find it so hard...
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anyone got any tips on
(qcf+p>qcf+p>rdp+D)x3
I find it so hard...
Explain which part are you having difficulty doing? Can you do his qcf+P x2, qcf+K rekkas with ease?
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Can someone explain to me what is the point of his Backflip Feint?
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Can someone explain to me what is the point of his Backflip Feint?
Has a moment of startup invincibility, lets him cancel normals, and also can be cancelled on the first flip into specials. SRK's Wiki actually does a great job describing this, too:
Back Ten ( + ) - Kensou performs a backflip similar to Vega/Claw's backflip in Street Fighter. Similarly, Kensou is invincible during the startup of the backflip though the invulnerability window runs out halfway through the first flip.
It should be noted that this maneuver can be broken down into two parts or flips; the initial, longer flip that ends with Kensou doing a handstand that can be canceled into specials and DMs, and the following short flip that ends with him standing on his feet again.
The first half is the real important and practical feature of Kensou's Back Ten. The initial invuln window can be used to escape backwards out of pressure, similarly to a roll, but in with less recovery if canceled into a special move. Doing a Back Ten to fake out an opponent and then canceling into Choukyuudan is an alright idea occasionally to mess with an opponents reactions to bait a jump and then anti-air with the following projectile.
The opponent could of course delay their jump and punish either the Choukyuudan or the remainder of the Back Ten, or even use an invulnerable DM or EX Special move to plow forward through any option Kensou can follow with. Another risky setup would involve the Kensou player doing a Back Ten and confirming that the opponent jumped and then canceling into Ryuugakusai to anti-air.
The remaining flip leaves Kensou vulnerable, but the somewhat fast recovery could go unpunished against an cautious opponent that knows of the aforementioned traps, or simply one who misses a punish against the player. Uncanceled, the backflip moves the player halfway across the screen, while canceling on the first hit moves the player some 2/5 the screen backward. And finally, Kensou is pushed back even further if Back Ten is canceled into from a normal attack.
Another practical use of this move is to punish a Guard Cancel Attack. If the player feels a 'GCCD' counter is coming he could attack with a cancelable grounded normal and then cancel the attack into Back Ten. If the read was successful, Kensou will avoid the counter and be in the position to punish the recovery of the whiff by canceling into any of his special moves or a DM of choice. In the case of an unsuccessful read, the player has the threat of canceling the backflip into Choukyuudan to cover his vulnerability.
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Just to say Kensou seems to be one of the top tier of this game :
He has his rekkas
His rdp.B is buff as hell, fully invincible (the best dp of the game from frionel)
His "dive kick" move is positive on block
He can do d.B,d.B,s.B,s.C to confirm his hd mode
He has his SDM command throw
Best hadotrap of the game
He can combo after a throw in corner (with a rdp.K then DC etc)
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That and MichelS is just a beast with pressure.
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Stop making me want to choose Kensou over Duo T_T.
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He can combo after a throw in corner (with a rdp.K then DC etc)
I never heard about this, a la Chin style?
That and MichelS is just a beast with pressure.
Get ready, the Frenchman is moving to NorCal real soon, expect him to be in the ranbats. He also expressed interest in coming down to SoCal once a month or something.
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He can combo after a throw in corner (with a rdp.K then DC etc)
I never heard about this, a la Chin style?
Exactly.
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OMG... that's insane... chin/kensou got crazy corner game with regular throws then... i don't know who has the better opportunity afterwards... i know chin can get crazy with 1 drive + 1 meter... kensou can probably get rdp+D, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+C,C, rdp+B...???
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I had almost given up on Kensou... I really liked him when XIII first came out... But he kinda turned stale after playing him for a few weeks... Eventually stopped playing him... But oh man... With the console changes, he is on the verge of being my new favourite character...
- new b&b is where its at... cr.B, s.B, s.C, *link* cr.B, (rekka, DC, DM) or (rdp.D, DC, air-qcb.C, *free cancel* DM)
- new command grab DM is an awesome addition... opens up a whole new gameplay...
- from rumors he can combo after regular throw in the corner...
- apparently air qcb.P is safer...
- better FB recovery...
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Simply put, he's a much more dangerous character when zoning and is just as dangerous up close.
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First page updated with console changes.
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*Air EX qcb.P starts up faster
*s.B>C is now a target combo. Follow ups possible after it hits.
*His punch super is now a 1 frame throw
*When air qcb.P hits, it can be canceled with a special or greater
*His fb’s recovery time is improved
Yamamoto:
Aside from being a good way to disrupt guard, his punch super can be used effectively to catch opponents who roll past his fb. His fb game has improved and can be used as a central strategy now that the recovery is better. His air qcb.P can be cancelled with any special and the new s.B>C target combo can be linked by following with c.B or s.D. I recommend using these changes aggressively along with his fb whilst minding distances.
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This character is so damn good, was highly effective online with him as well.
My old fireball tactics from 2k2 work great, so lots of fireballs mixed in with sweeps and normals canceled into more fireballs. The super is great for mixing it up when they start trying hard to get in via rolls and jumps.
Unlike his 2k2 version though this Kensou is very combo capable and can dish out good damage. His dp gives you forever to DC into air special and then follow up further.
His EX DP is so damn good, fast and simply excellent damage.
For some reason I'm having a lot of trouble doing his rekkas, either it stops after the first hit or drive cancels into the DP+P move. Gets on my nerves cuz I was really looking forward to these.
His normals are really good and very fast (his sweep has hella range) and the character feels like he can travel the screen really fast.
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Do consistent rekkas, don't mash or you won't be happy. Just have a nice rhythm to it.
But yeah, Kensou's top 5, if not top 3. Has so many tools.
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Yeah, I noticed that I often have to input things slower than I'm used to in this game.
Don't know about tops yet, damn near everybody seems highly effective in this game. Balance feels spot on so far.
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kensou is looking pretty good i don't know about top five though, definitely close to it.
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Yeah, I noticed that I often have to input things slower than I'm used to in this game.
Don't know about tops yet, damn near everybody seems highly effective in this game. Balance feels spot on so far.
I agree with you on the balance, but I'm sure Kensou's in the top. Not only does he have a HIGHLY effective FB/DP game, he has really easy hit confirms into solid damage which can lead into the corner, he can get you into the corner rather easily, and once there he will RAPE you. Against a good Kensou in the corner you better be praying, ESPECIALLY if he has meter. One wrong guess, you lose at least 20-25% life and he still has you in the corner. And he has SO many options in the corner that you probably WILL guess wrong.
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I agree with you on the balance, but I'm sure Kensou's in the top. Not only does he have a HIGHLY effective FB/DP game, he has really easy hit confirms into solid damage which can lead into the corner, he can get you into the corner rather easily, and once there he will RAPE you. Against a good Kensou in the corner you better be praying, ESPECIALLY if he has meter. One wrong guess, you lose at least 20-25% life and he still has you in the corner. And he has SO many options in the corner that you probably WILL guess wrong.
Yeah but a lot can be said of other characters as well. What if Kyo gets in on you? You will dream of getting away with just 20-25% damage. What if Athena is reflecting your fireballs all day? Not only is her reflector really fast to come out but it ends really fast as well so she can slap you some more right after your own fireball hits you.
Same with K', Kim, Andy, Yuri, Iori, Kula, Chin etc., they can do well against him as well I think (all have easy hit confirms and higher damage output). If the opponent has meter then keeping them in the corner won't be easy either between the blow back, EX moves and supers.
So yeah, Kensou is extremely solid but I wouldn't go adding him to A+ class just yet.
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Alright fine, I concede my point.
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Alright, I hate to double post, but I think it's best to try and help out the wiki. Let's post our thought on his pokes, his tools, his BnB confirms, his good Drive and HD combos and any general gameplay discussion in order to really fill it out when the mods feel it's time to update the wiki.
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k so got to play the console version for the first time today... Kensou is fun as hell... his console buffs makes him so freaken good...
- his FB game seems ridiculously good now...
- his shoryu has insane amounts of invincibility...
- s.B, s.C hit confirm... *too awesome to comment*
- new corner throw follow-up... love landing that shit...
there is only 1 problem... his jumps are soo freaken floaty... i'm used to playing Clark/RAlf/Goro/Tizoc... sooo NOT used to floaty jumps... i have a big trouble doing proper hop pressure with him and Mai... any tips?
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Uh, just get used to hitting hop B later than you're used to? There's no real tips with dealing with floaty jumps in any game, you just have to get used to it. Thankfully, until Kensou gets in the opponent's face, he doesn't have to leave the ground much unless he's in a match where he's actually dominated zoning wise for whatever reason and his air QCB+P can mitigate some of the floatiness of the jump (but for the love of god be careful with it if you don't want to die a painful death on landing).
Two things I wonder about at the moment. What will Kensou's new BnB be? I'm thinking along the lines of cr.B, st.B>st.C, cr.B xx Rekkas (replace cr.B with st.D if you're really feeling yourself). Think it works at most ranges, and unlike just basic cr.B, cr.B xx Rekkas, you have all day to notice that you're actually hitting your opponent by st.C so you can link into cr.B Rekkas.
Second, the optimal options of what to do after a throw in the corner. So far, what I'm doing is either a quick cr.A (or st.A, I can't remember at the moment) to reset the opponent for a possible 50/50 (I try to do this against opponents that don't have DPs that will kill me) or I go EX DP [DC] air QCF C, DP D. Dunno if you guys got anything better after the corner throw.
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Alot of his game/combos are gonna revolve around his ex dp. That thing does more damage then either of his supers. If you have the meter you can drive cancel into qcb p and do another one...plus it pushes them into the corner. Insane damage and so easy to do.
You can even ex rdp, DC qcb p, qcf p, qcf p, ex rdp which does over 40%.
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if you're talking about the corner you can do dp.K,(DC)qcb.C,qcb.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,dp.B
(I guess it's always working on console version)
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Two things I wonder about at the moment. What will Kensou's new BnB be? I'm thinking along the lines of cr.B, st.B>st.C, cr.B xx Rekkas (replace cr.B with st.D if you're really feeling yourself). Think it works at most ranges, and unlike just basic cr.B, cr.B xx Rekkas, you have all day to notice that you're actually hitting your opponent by st.C so you can link into cr.B Rekkas.
Second, the optimal options of what to do after a throw in the corner. So far, what I'm doing is either a quick cr.A (or st.A, I can't remember at the moment) to reset the opponent for a possible 50/50 (I try to do this against opponents that don't have DPs that will kill me) or I go EX DP [DC] air QCF C, DP D. Dunno if you guys got anything better after the corner throw.
1. that's my main b&b at mid-screen... cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B, rekka or EX DP... if i start from a jump-in then i'll take out the first cr.B... *you can do the same combo after EX qcb.P in the air*
2. you can actually do his whole corner b&b from throw in the corner... if you don't have meter then just do rdp.B... if you have drive meter then rdp.B, DC into air qcb.C > full corner combo... if you have 1 meter then EX DP, DC into full corner combo...
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I'll have to practice because I couldn't remember his corner combo, it was nagging at me all day.
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Btw if the stun values for Kensou aren't change on console j.C,s.B,s.C,s.D,rdp.C,(DC)qcb.A,qcb.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,rdp.B,(DC)qcb.A,qcb.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,rdp.B should stun now. So i'm wondering if he really needs hd combos in corner.
At 5min30s but without the initial qcb.A
KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その３２０ Conclusion2011 vol 1（Kim&Psycho） (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFhZBjukYL0#)
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Thats a nice combo. Did that work on all the cast?
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I gotta say,Kensou is my favorite character in this game.Just got to work out his combos.
Here's a question: can his backflip cancel work as a punishing tool?
Example:Let's say Clark actives his weak SAB,so I backflip and then cancel into special as Clark's invisibility frames run out.Could that work?
I won't be able to try this for a while...
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I actually did that just yesterday. Backflip -> whiff punish works, but only with certain moves (reach dependent). Backflip -> Rekkas sucks because his Rekkas don't move him forward much. Best move for punishing if you see any movement is his QCF+K. Not much damage but he runs so far and its more or less guaranteed.
Also, Clark's weak SAB has "infinite" armor/guard point from start-up until activation, not invincibility. But it's so good it might as well be invincibility lol.
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So whiff cancelling Kensou's CD gives his specials recockulous range. Hope you like half-screen rekkas.
EDIT: Okay, so maybe not quite half-screen, but still. Recockulous.
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Yeah, just tried that now, DAMN, hurray for Kara-Rekkas and Kara-Half Screen DPs.
Now for those who use Kensou as a Stopgap or Anchor, I've been working on basic HD loops and crap so we can get some damage off of nice hitconfirms. One I'm using now for an EASY hitconfirm (once you get the loop down) is...
hop.B, c.B, s.B>s.C [HD] s.B>s.C xx [QCF+C>QCF+C [HDC] RDP+D] x3, xx QCFx2 + AC
Not that hard once you get it down, does 700 Damage for your entire HD Bar and only 2 meters and you can hit confirm it from another c.B if you really need the visual aid.
This new target combo helps wonders for our hitconfirming.
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You can get more damage from that HD combo. After the initial hit confirm and HD activation, start with:
st.C, (RDP+D [HDC] QCF+C>QCF+C)x3 [HDC] RDP+D xx QCFx2 + AC.
His DPs do more damage than the double rekkas, so starting with a st.C xx DP at the beginning gives you more damage, and enough extra time to add a DP near the end. It's not too difficult either. : )
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You can get more damage from that HD combo:
After the initial hit confirm and HD activation, start with st.B, st.C, (RDP+D (2), QCF+C, QCF+C)x4, QCFx2AC.
His DPs do more damage than the double rekkas, so starting with it at the beginning gives you one more rep and lots more damage. It's not that different and much better IMO.
I know...I'm just a little off with RDP's :p.
I knew there was more too it, but I just wanted to start something, I'm not that good at making a new combo or anything. I juts wanted to make an HD combo off his new TC.
EDIT: Okay, yeah for some reason, making RDP the first special in that combo is REALLY not agreeing with my hands and idk why.
But anyway, because of actually having a decent HD combo in the whole, I'm considering moving Kensou to anchor on my team while moving Hwa to point (or just getting a new point battery altogether).
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You'll get used to it in time.
Kensou is at his best in 1st/2nd position. It's not uncommon for 1st position Kensou to HD combo in the very first round. If you're moving him to anchor because you want to run these combos, I think you should reconsider. On point, he has great meterless combos that set up meaty fireball traps, all of which require no drive bar. Also, Kensou's specials/blockstrings are very useful, which means you get that 2 meter quickly (for the HD Neomax). I run Kensou 1st as well, and this is the strategy I use:
Match begins:
- Get those rekka/dp BnBs. Shoot lots of fireballs. Backflip cancel lots. Blockstrings ending in weak fireball.
- If you get a full drive bar but not 2 bars for NM, activate HD mode on your next confirm and end the combo in rekkas for like 35-40%. If you encounter this scenario, you're probably winning this round.
If you defeat the first character with this strategy:
- Play Kensou's neutral game to the best of your ability. Vitality is an issue, so you're really just biding time until you get the bar needed for a big combo. You have to make Kensou's last moments count.
- You probably have enough meter for the NeoMax by now, or you will soon. Fish for the hit confirm for a 60% HD combo.
Congratulations the match outcome is now heavily slanted in your favour lol
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Well do you run 360? I do need someone to train with, because I realize I did none of that lol.
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Sorry dude, I'm on PS3. : (
Just post any questions you have and we'll talk it out. Everyone here is trying to learn Kensou, myself included.
Here's a list of things you SHOULD do when playing Kensou:
- Most of Kensou's normals are cancellable. Use that to your advantage. Poke with long range cr. ;d and cancel it into ;a fireball or ;b ;d backflip to keep yourself safe. You can cancel the backflip into a fireball too! Use other normals like st. ;c, st. ;d, ;c ;d in a similar fashion.
- After any combo ending in Rekkas, shoot an ;a fireball, and dash behind it:
If the opponent jumps: AA with cr. ;c xx ;a fireball. (Cancelling into another fireball after the AA for more pressure)
If the opponent rolls: cr. ;b x2 into Rekkas, or if you're too far use ;dn ;df ;fd ;d
If the opponent blocks: Mix-up between hop j. ;b / empty hop cr. ;b / throw
- If you land a throw in the corner, you can combo RDP ;b afterwards and cancel it into ;dn ;df ;fd x2 + ;a ;c. You can also DC it into ;dn ;db ;bk ;c for more follow-ups.
- cr. ;b, st. ;b, st. ;c confirms. If it's blocked, you're safe. If the st. ;c connects, visually confirm it and link a cr. ;b into Rekka/RDP ;d/(EX) DM
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Heh. Im happy Im atually doing most of the things you said above.
However could you give me a good block string to use off of cr.b
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cr.B,s.B,s.C in guard
cr.B,s.B,s.C,cr.B,qcf.A... if it lands i guess.
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Sorry dude, I'm on PS3. : (
Just post any questions you have and we'll talk it out. Everyone here is trying to learn Kensou, myself included.
Here's a list of things you SHOULD do when playing Kensou:
- Most of Kensou's normals are cancellable. Use that to your advantage. Poke with long range cr. ;d and cancel it into ;a fireball or ;b ;d backflip to keep yourself safe. You can cancel the backflip into a fireball too! Use other normals like st. ;c, st. ;d, ;c ;d in a similar fashion.
- After any combo ending in Rekkas, shoot an ;a fireball, and dash behind it:
If the opponent jumps: AA with cr. ;c xx ;a fireball. (Cancelling into another fireball after the AA for more pressure)
If the opponent rolls: cr. ;b x2 into Rekkas, or if you're too far use ;dn ;df ;fd ;d
If the opponent blocks: Mix-up between hop j. ;b / empty hop cr. ;b / throw
- If you land a throw in the corner, you can combo RDP ;b afterwards and cancel it into ;dn ;df ;fd x2 + ;a ;c. You can also DC it into ;dn ;db ;bk ;c for more follow-ups.
- cr. ;b, st. ;b, st. ;c confirms. If it's blocked, you're safe. If the st. ;c connects, visually confirm it and link a cr. ;b into Rekka/RDP ;d/(EX) DM
Thanks for this, will incorporate.
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I will incorporate as well. Now if only there were a primer on Hwa and Saiki...
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I will incorporate as well. Now if only there were a primer on Hwa and Saiki...
There was solid Saiki and Hwa play on Saturday's level up stream, check it out if you haven't already.
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I will incorporate as well. Now if only there were a primer on Hwa and Saiki...
There was solid Saiki and Hwa play on Saturday's level up stream, check it out if you haven't already.
Alright, I'll check it out
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Hey Raynex, Thanks for all the Kensou tips&tricks!
Playing Kensou just got alot more fun. ;)
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Your welcome! I'm glad everyone got a little bit more excited about playing Kensou. I'm new to KOF myself, but watching a combination of SoCal/Japanese matches really gave me a good idea on character strategies and zoning principles. I suggest you all do the same. There is a particularly interesting set of matches featuring Poongko (Yes, the SSF4AE Daigo-Slayer) using a bunch of characters and running train on people. Interesting stuff! I'll post back here if I find any notable Kensous we can emulate.
In the meantime, here are a few more things I use that seem to work well:
- cr. ;c as an AA is interchangeable with st. ;d . ;d has better vertical reach, so it's better if you're close to your opponent, and cr. ;c lowers Kensou's hurtbox so most jump-ins whiff. Both are great GTFO me buttons and can be cancelled into ;a Fireball or ;b ;d flip for zoning/pressure purposes.
- st. ;b is a low hitting normal, so carefully walking forward and poking your opponent's feet with st. ;b , st. ;c target combo can be effective. If you connect, always remember to link another cr. ;b and profit! Empty hop st. ;b is interchangeable with empty hop cr. ;b , and looks weird as hell because he's standing yet still hitting low. Dem mindgames.
- Every now and then (like after rekkas KND, fireball pressure), your opponent might just sit back and try to block your Hop pressure. Try empty hopping into his command grab super. Huge payoff for this one, and it's a 1 frame throw!
- EX Fireball is a ridiculous tool in fireball wars. Moves twice as fast as his D fireball and nullifys other class 1 projectiles + keeps going. Good damage and goes full screen. Don't forget to use this as a round ender sometimes.
- The air ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c is pretty good. If you jump back and manage to land a stray one, you get a free ;dn ;df ;fd ;b . But it's super unsafe on block. This move looks like it's best left in combos. The EX version on the other hand is absolutely nuts. Still trying to figure this one out. : /
- On the topic of Kensou's best position on a team: 1st or 2nd exclusively. Kensou seems best suited for early game, and the most he needs to do good damage is 2 meter. Anything more than that is unnecessary. There are many characters that utilize 3+ bar better than Kensou, but few that are as effective as him early on. If there is another character on your team that you feel functions better on point (or if you just don't want Kensou there), 2nd works great too. His HD combos are easy to confirm into and do great damage for relatively little effort. Again, this is all IMO.
*For the record, my team is Kensou / Maxima / King. Might change it to Kensou / Maxima / Kim or Iori. I love King, but she's not the best anchor, and Kensou is a better point...she's kind of lost lol.
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I've been noticing cr.C is getting stuffed a lot more than I would like.
And yeah, most know about Poongko, not because he's a "Daigo" slayer, but because he was a KOF player first, so it's no surprise how easily he ran people over people. Idk if he played Kensou at all in his set so feel free to keep looking. I know for a fact he did not do so in the first 2 hours.
And I think his position on a team can lend itself more to matchup knowledge than anything. If you see 2+ zoners on another team, don't hesitate to put him second to likely have some EX Fireballs loaded to deal with it. Without meter, it could be annoying.
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http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sie_Kensou_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sie_Kensou_(XIII))
Hey players, the Kensou wiki needs some lovin', if anyone has anything like to add (move descriptions, combos, damage values, tips, pro/cons) just add them here with a template of what section for example:
Neomax
"Seigan Senki Hakkei = (qcfx2+AC) - A big ass psycho saw ball, etc.
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: (16 + 0) x 22, 16, 100
"
or combos:
" No Gauge
- cr. B×1~3, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K
- cr. A×1~2, qcf+P~qcf+P~qcf+K
- ___________
- ___________"
Also, feel free to test others peoples submissions too.
The mod team will look for the submissions and add em to the wiki.
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While I'll do my best to help, I think Raynex has the best insight into Kensou in DC for the time being.
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I've been noticing cr.C is getting stuffed a lot more than I would like.
And yeah, most know about Poongko, not because he's a "Daigo" slayer, but because he was a KOF player first, so it's no surprise how easily he ran people over people. Idk if he played Kensou at all in his set so feel free to keep looking. I know for a fact he did not do so in the first 2 hours.
And I think his position on a team can lend itself more to matchup knowledge than anything. If you see 2+ zoners on another team, don't hesitate to put him second to likely have some EX Fireballs loaded to deal with it. Without meter, it could be annoying.
St.D is the better AA tool, but it has less reach. cr.C has to be done kind of early, but it works pretty well. St.D will never lose, but prepare to have it whiff on occasion.
My last post was kind of convoluted. I didn't mean to say Poongko played Kensou; just that watching high level matches is good to help your general improvement. It was a great set of matches that's definitely worth the watch. I'm also quite aware of Poongko's status within the KOF community. I was simply validating his identity to any new joiners/lurkers that stumbled onto my post. There is a huge wave of crossover players from the SF series, and I'm sure they'd appreciate some credible sources to learn from. :)
(Poongko's exploits in SF are also more notable than his accomplishments KOF. It'll take some getting used to...thinking of him as a KOF player haha)
Once a few more people start posting in this character spef, we can start adding to the wiki. Thanks for the vote of confidence Saitsu.
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No, I know st.D was better, I was just saying cr.C was getting beat more than I would like, because I do like having the meaty pressure after an AA that cr.C xx QCF+A brings.
And, yeah, I watched most of Poongko's matches, at least for the first 2 hours, he was dominant. It was good to study...unfortunately, he played none of the characters that I mained lol.
I do feel good with Kensou now, I've been landing my version of the HD loop consistently when I actually decide to hitconfirm. I don't feel too confident in starting it with RDP, and with NEC so close, I'm not gonna risk it too hard.
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*I edited my previous post, check it.
st.D is also cancellable. IF you're close enough to hit with it, it's better than cr.C in every way. Only reason I advised cr.C was because it was more consistent at more ranges. You're going to have to feel it out in terms of AA.
I was actually planning to go to NEC, but my ride flopped last minute. So disappointed...I was planning on entering KOF/SF4/AH3. I wish you the best of luck! Yeah, you should stick to the stuff you're comfortable with for tournaments. Can't risk giving up free damage.
In other news, cr.B, st.BC Target combo, cr.B xx qcfC, qcfC [DC] EX RDP K does craploads of damage and feels amazing. My lawd.
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I've made up a console combo list for Kensou seeing as the Wiki section is lacking on it... So here it goes :-
Standard B&B Combos -
(0 meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, qcf+C, qcf+C, qcf+D = 280/240 dmg
(0 meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, s.B, rdp+D *4 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+C = 353/313 dmg
(1 meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD = 382/342 dmg
(1 meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+C = 430/390 dmg
(2 meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B, qcbx2+AC = 450/410 dmg
(2 meters + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, rdp+BD = 488/448 dmg
(3 meters + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcbx2+AC = 536/496 dmg
*...If "air qcb+C" takes them to the corner*
(0 meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, s.B, rdp+D *4 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 427/387 dmg
(1 meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 482/442 dmg
rdp+BD *7 hits* Combos -
(1 meter + 1 DC) - DC, air qcb+C, qcb+C = 326 dmg
(2 meters + 1 DC) - DC, air qcb+C, rdp+BD = 424 dmg
(3 meters + 1 DC) - DC, air qcb+C, qcbx2+AC = 485 dmg
*...If "air qcb+C" takes them to the corner*
(1 meter + 1 DC) - DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 411 dmg
(2 meters + 1 DC) - DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, rdp+BD = 452 dmg
(3 meters + 1 DC) - DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcbx2+AC = 507 dmg
Corner Throw Combos -
(0 meter + 0 DC) - rdp+B = 189 dmg
(1 meter + 0 DC) - rdp+BD = 340 dmg
(0 meter + 1 DC) - rdp+B *3 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 395 dmg
(1 meter + 1 DC) - rdp+BD *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 479 dmg
Air qcb+A/C Combos -
(0 meter + 0 DC) - qcf+D = 117 dmg
(1 meter + 0 DC) - rdp+BD = 245-290 dmg *depends on how deep you land*
(2 meters + 0 DC) - qcbx2+AC = 363 dmg
HD Combos -
(0 meter) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, s.C, HD, s.B, s.C, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, rdp+D *2 hits*) x 3, qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, rdp+D *4 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 503/463 dmg
(2 meters) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, s.C, HD, s.B, s.C, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, rdp+D *2 hits*) x 4, DC, Neomax = 720/680 dmg
(2 meters) - j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, s.C, HD, s.B, s.C, rdp+D *2 hits*, DC, Neomax = 621/581 dmg (easy version)
HD Bypass "Custom Grab Neomax" Combo -
(3 meters) - jump, buffer "qcf+BC" right before landing, input "hcb+C" right after landing, "Max Cancel" to "Neomax" on "50th" hit = 688 dmg
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^^^ Thanks a lot
I've made up a console combo list for Kensou seeing as the Wiki section is lacking on it... So here it goes
I'm starting to like Kensou myself, so I will be trying and testing all of those out...I suggest anyone other Kensou players should do so as well.
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HD Bypass Combo -
(3 meters) - hop/jump, buffer "qcf+BC" right before landing, input "hcb+C" right after landing, "Max Cancel" to "Neomax" on "49th" hit = 668 dmg
You can also cancel qcf, hcb + BC off a hop C -> Cl. C. ~730 dmg
EDIT: And off of the hop C -> St. B -> C target combo! ~710 dmg
MORE EDITS: St. B -> C -> qcbx2 + ABC -> qcfx2 + AC for 815 dmg. HD BYPASS TOO MUCH FUN.
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Had a quick go with kensou last night, found this out but peeps have beat me to it it sems.
Its just a variation of t3h's
cB, sB, sC, sB, sC, HD, sB, sC, sB, sC----- etc etc into what combo you want.
The point is you can do sB, sC then link it again. So its sB, sC, sB, sC------
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Yeah, I noticed you could do that the other night, but you usually have to be decently close to start it so it can be a pain.
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@Gimnbo - The reason I mentioned that is cause it gives Kensou a "custom grab Neomax"... It pretty much lets you do a 1 frame super throw into Neomax... So he gains a new deadly option...
@shinefist - That will scale the combo afterwards way too much so i would say it's not worth doing it... You get enough time to hit confirm with just j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C for regular combos... and j.C/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, s.C for HD combos...
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Alright one thing I'm having some problems with. Sometimes when I dash in with kensou and do cr.B into rekkas his dp is coming out. I know this is an execution problem, but it seems like there is a long time after inputing f, that a dp will come out rather then a rekka. What do you guys usually do for this? hcf+p?
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edit: You're probably holding ;df after you run in and hit cr.B, which is adding to the problem. Make sure when you dash into cr.B you're holding down, and doing at least two cr.B to let the forward input dissipate. Running QCFs turning into DPs is a problem in every fighter, it's a system mechanic that you have to overcome via muscle memory. From what I understand you're running in and doing a single cr.B into rekkas? You should be hit confirming them anyways, so if you run in and do two cr.B you won't shortcut DP. Or you could do what the new kids are doing and run in st.B, st.C target combo hit-confirm. Safe if it's blocked, free cr.B xx Rekkas if it hits (plus st.B hits low so it's essentially cr.B).
Good games Masteroth. Dat Kensou technology! I'm of the opinion that st.D is his best AA. Sure, it trades if they hop in from far away, but its better than cr.C -_-
If you connect a cr.D (sweep) and cancel into A fireball, it hits meaty if your opponent techs. Good for pressure, and you get a run in -> combo if the fireball hits. You're still safe even if they decide NOT to tech, so you should pretty much always cancel the sweep it seems.
Gotta find more applications for the backflip. I started using it to buffer qcbx2 motions to catch full screen hops/jumps. If they jump while I'm flipping, EX Fireball DM!
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Good games Masteroth. Dat Kensou technology! I'm of the opinion that st.D is his best AA. Sure, it trades if they hop in from far away, but its better than cr.C -_-
If you connect a cr.D (sweep) and cancel into A fireball, it hits meaty if your opponent techs. Good for pressure, and you get a run in -> combo if the fireball hits. You're still safe even if they decide NOT to tech, so you should pretty much always cancel the sweep it seems.
Gotta find more applications for the backflip. I started using it to buffer qcbx2 motions to catch full screen hops/jumps. If they jump while I'm flipping, EX Fireball DM!
ya good games man... it's good to have people in Toronto who know the game as well... but ya Kensou is awesome... if your reaction is good enough, you can AA with DPs... i've seen japanese players reading and punishing close/far ranged hops with rdp.B... rdp.D or rdp.BD would be better if they are a little further away...
ya that's a very good strategy... if you are in the corner, u can do the same setup... just sweep from near max range, BD cancel, A fireball... then run/hop in ...w/e...
umm the first flip of the Backflip is invincible... and you can cancel backflip with an invincible move... aka EX shoryu... backflip is very good for fake outs... often you can run in on them, do s.D, qcb+A, then run in on the opponent and pressure... then at times you can do s.D, BD, qcb+A, then hyper hop in and pressure... another scary thing is s.D, BD gives you enough time to "READ" a reaction of the opponent... you can do s.D, BD and see what the opponent is doing... IF the opponents "hops at you", "does ANY normals" or "throws a FB at you", cancel into rdp+BD... you will beat EVERYTHING... lol...
Kensou's rdp+BD is like the best EX move in the game... :D
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Good games Masteroth. Dat Kensou technology! I'm of the opinion that st.D is his best AA. Sure, it trades if they hop in from far away, but its better than cr.C -_-
If you connect a cr.D (sweep) and cancel into A fireball, it hits meaty if your opponent techs. Good for pressure, and you get a run in -> combo if the fireball hits. You're still safe even if they decide NOT to tech, so you should pretty much always cancel the sweep it seems.
Gotta find more applications for the backflip. I started using it to buffer qcbx2 motions to catch full screen hops/jumps. If they jump while I'm flipping, EX Fireball DM!
ya good games man... it's good to have people in Toronto who know the game as well... but ya Kensou is awesome... if your reaction is good enough, you can AA with DPs... i've seen japanese players reading and punishing close/far ranged hops with rdp.B... rdp.D or rdp.BD would be better if they are a little further away...
ya that's a very good strategy... if you are in the corner, u can do the same setup... just sweep from near max range, BD cancel, A fireball... then run/hop in ...w/e...
umm the first flip of the Backflip is invincible... and you can cancel backflip with an invincible move... aka EX shoryu... backflip is very good for fake outs... often you can run in on them, do s.D, qcb+A, then run in on the opponent and pressure... then at times you can do s.D, BD, qcb+A, then hyper hop in and pressure... another scary thing is s.D, BD gives you enough time to "READ" a reaction of the opponent... you can do s.D, BD and see what the opponent is doing... IF the opponents "hops at you", "does ANY normals" or "throws a FB at you", cancel into rdp+BD... you will beat EVERYTHING... lol...
Kensou's rdp+BD is like the best EX move in the game... :D
Yeah, i abuse the invincibility. I didn't think to use the EX DP though. I'm generally pretty conservative and don't like to take huge risks...but if it beats everything, why not? You showed me the magic of EX DP yesterday. Still can't believe it does more damage than his DM lol.
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Well it's not like we used his DM much anyway.
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Well it's not like we used his DM much anyway.
Speak for yourself :p
I used to do hit-confirms -> RDP K [DC] Dive, land, Fireball DM. I'd also end combos in the corner with it sometimes. But never again! EX DP is gawdlike.
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Man, you're a better Kensou than me, and even I figured out day one that EX DP was the shit.
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Yeah, i abuse the invincibility. I didn't think to use the EX DP though. I'm generally pretty conservative and don't like to take huge risks...but if it beats everything, why not? You showed me the magic of EX DP yesterday. Still can't believe it does more damage than his DM lol.
I used to do hit-confirms -> RDP K [DC] Dive, land, Fireball DM. I'd also end combos in the corner with it sometimes. But never again! EX DP is gawdlike.
ya man... abuse that shit... lol... it's the better option everytime... :D
i'm used to playing grapplers and taking high risk vs. high reward at all times since 97... that's what my whole entire mind game is based around... so i tend to encourage it... lol...
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Man, you're a better Kensou than me, and even I figured out day one that EX DP was the shit.
I don't own a new gen system, so I don't get to practice things often or check damage values for things. I'm OG MvC2 and 3rd strike, learned everything in the arcades back in the day. I get by in my competitive fighters using a combination of the execution I've gained by learning those games / developing my game theory. Only times I get to play KOF are at weekly casuals (game store in my city) or at friend's houses. My compromise is, become knowledgeable and use the time I have not practicing at home to research+contribute to the forums.
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Meh, anyway, I'm not gonna go with Hwa on my team for NEC, nowhere near developed enough and I'm getting killed because of execution errors with him.
Thinking about going with one of the 3 main SNK protagonists to go with Kensou and Saiki.
Who do you think would go best with them and in what position? Kyo, Ryo, or Terry? For now I've been running Kyo second... just because he has an Edgeworth color and I can make Team Prosecutor.
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I kinda feel guilty for picking Kensou since he is so damn good in this game!
I like his qcf+k special so much I use it raw and it catches so many people off guard its funny.
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I kinda feel guilty for picking Kensou since he is so damn good in this game!
I like his qcf+k special so much I use it raw and it catches so many people off guard its funny.
Yeah, I wouldn't make a habit of that. Online you can get away with it since it's harder to block on reaction and punish, but against anyone competent or offline (or a combination of the two), you'll just be sending Kensou to an early grave.
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I kinda feel guilty for picking Kensou since he is so damn good in this game!
I like his qcf+k special so much I use it raw and it catches so many people off guard its funny.
Yeah, I wouldn't make a habit of that. Online you can get away with it since it's harder to block on reaction and punish, but against anyone competent or offline (or a combination of the two), you'll just be sending Kensou to an early grave.
Yeah thats true, abusing any move isn't a good idea. Unless its broken, or the game is broken haha. Thats a bad habit of mine, when I pick up characters I tend to use one move I like too much.
Also, Kensou's throw is only able to follow up his throw in the corner right?
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure only in the corner, unless his EX Shinryuu: Choukyuudan can make it in time.
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Terry/Ryo/Kyo are all good in 2nd position. It comes down a matter to who you like more. so just go with your gut. Ideally, your team should be reflective of who you enjoy and not some arbitrary tier list. Personally, Terry seems like a good fit because of his 1 bar + 50% drive BnB that does like 30%. He's a bit linear in terms of playstyle, but that just makes it easier to focus on the neutral game and landing your combos. Kyo is probably the best choice, but the awesome things I see with him often require 2 or more bars + hefty drive (which is why he's usually an anchor). Terry's BnB requires significantly less resources, which makes sense for 2nd slot characters. I'm not too sure about how Ryo plays so I'll reserve judgement. Although I do see him played point more often than 2nd.
But at the end of the day, it is your decision. Those characters can function well pretty much anywhere.
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Ryo is best as battery but he can be played as second or anchor... he has strong 1meter +1 DC and HD combos... but what he is best at is pressuring the opponent with those damn Kohkens... EX Kohken combos into itself MID-SCREEN... hahaha... on top his parries are crazy now...
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Well I have one day of training ahead, I better decide now. I've been thinking Ryo though.
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After roughly ~40 matchs with Kensou today, i just want to say this character is so freaking awesome godlike omgwtfbbq. <3
But the timing on his corner combo (rdp cancel qcb projectile rekka etc) is so different i must relearn it :(
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edit: You're probably holding ;df after you run in and hit cr.B, which is adding to the problem. Make sure when you dash into cr.B you're holding down, and doing at least two cr.B to let the forward input dissipate. Running QCFs turning into DPs is a problem in every fighter, it's a system mechanic that you have to overcome via muscle memory. From what I understand you're running in and doing a single cr.B into rekkas? You should be hit confirming them anyways, so if you run in and do two cr.B you won't shortcut DP. Or you could do what the new kids are doing and run in st.B, st.C target combo hit-confirm. Safe if it's blocked, free cr.B xx Rekkas if it hits (plus st.B hits low so it's essentially cr.B).
I usually do atleast 2 cr. B for hitconfirm, but maybe I am holding ;df, I guess it will only come from practice like you say. I'll try slowing down the inputs as well. Have any of you guys noticed sf4 affected your execution. I'm not knocking sf4 but, its nice to play a game where mashing gets you nowhere.
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I played SF4 but I also played Rose, so it's not like mashing got me anywhere in the first place, so I'm used to it.
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edit: You're probably holding ;df after you run in and hit cr.B, which is adding to the problem. Make sure when you dash into cr.B you're holding down, and doing at least two cr.B to let the forward input dissipate. Running QCFs turning into DPs is a problem in every fighter, it's a system mechanic that you have to overcome via muscle memory. From what I understand you're running in and doing a single cr.B into rekkas? You should be hit confirming them anyways, so if you run in and do two cr.B you won't shortcut DP. Or you could do what the new kids are doing and run in st.B, st.C target combo hit-confirm. Safe if it's blocked, free cr.B xx Rekkas if it hits (plus st.B hits low so it's essentially cr.B).
I usually do atleast 2 cr. B for hitconfirm, but maybe I am holding ;df, I guess it will only come from practice like you say. I'll try slowing down the inputs as well. Have any of you guys noticed sf4 affected your execution. I'm not knocking sf4 but, its nice to play a game where mashing gets you nowhere.
Fortunately I had decent execution before SF4's release, so I never got used to the whole lenient inputs thing. (shortcuts/mashing, etc). That and I played Abel. Forget mashing...my BnB is a 1 frame link.
But back to KOF. This game will definitely help your execution in the long run. You'll get a big return on the time you invest into it... in the form of immensely satisfying HD combos!
Sharnt: And yeah Kensou is straight up GDLK. I love how effective his game is. It feels like he just shuts everyone else down when he's running offense.
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Oh I was referring to shoto players and uppercut reversals haha. Im a bison player so I dont really have much to mash myself. I mean, this game doesnt rob you, where if I dropped a 1 frame link with bison I would lose half my health to some guy stirring the cauldren.
But i have noticed that I have to do my dps much more precise now...especially with all the overlapping inputs.
How are you guys using his grab dm? As kind of a tick throw? It doesnt really seem to make sense to use it in a combo
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Hmm, guys what do you think is more worth it?
1 Drive, 1 Bar for 350
2 Drive, no Bar for 400
2 Drive, 1 bar for 450?
All of this if Kensou is on point and not like anchor or something (in which case, burn dat bar!).
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Oh I was referring to shoto players and uppercut reversals haha. Im a bison player so I dont really have much to mash myself. I mean, this game doesnt rob you, where if I dropped a 1 frame link with bison I would lose half my health to some guy stirring the cauldren.
But i have noticed that I have to do my dps much more precise now...especially with all the overlapping inputs.
How are you guys using his grab dm? As kind of a tick throw? It doesnt really seem to make sense to use it in a combo
For the grab DM, you can implement it as part of the standard, universal 3-way KOF mix-up:
-Hop, j.whatever
-Empty hop, land -> low whatever
-Empty hop, land -> grab
When you add Kensou's 1 frame command grab to the mix it gets serious. They have to see it coming and jump before the super flash. If they guess wrong and jump when you land, your cr.B or your jump-in will connect for a free combo.
Excerpt from Hitstun / Blockstun Miniguide:
"It is important to keep in mind that after a character goes through a blockstun animation, they cannot be hit with any throw until 10 frames after the blockstun ends (note that this number might be different in KOF XIII)."
This means that tickthrowing is much harder in KOF than it is in the SF series. Here are a few good ways to set up throws / command grabs:
-Initiate a full run and command grab super
-Initiate a full run and input ;bk + ;c or ;d the moment you reach your opponent for a run grab.
-Hop j. ;a or ;b and hit very high on your opponent's guard (these moves have less hitstun than the others). When you land, the blockstun should have deteriorated, so you can grab.
-High jump in, whiff a normal intentionally, land, 1 Frame command grab.
etc.
Saitsu: For point characters, I think it's almost always best to use drive before meter. You want to save that meter so your 2nd character can go nuts. The 2 Bar 0 Drive combo would be your best bet.
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"It is important to keep in mind that after a character goes through a blockstun animation, they cannot be hit with any throw until 10 frames after the blockstun ends (note that this number might be different in KOF XIII)."
Same thing goes at the wakeup, 8 frames throw invincibility.
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Hmm, guys what do you think is more worth it?
1 Drive, 1 Bar for 350
2 Drive, no Bar for 400
2 Drive, 1 bar for 450?
All of this if Kensou is on point and not like anchor or something (in which case, burn dat bar!).
With Kensou, for his regular b&bs, it's not worth DC-ing unless you'll take them to the corner...
(1 meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD = 382/342 dmg
That's you optimal combo of choice for spending 1 meter... You should only DC it if you know you'll take them to the corner... Your other options are...
(0 meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, s.B, rdp+D *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 427/387 dmg
(1 meter + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, qcb+A, qcf+C,C, qcf+A,A, rdp+B = 482/442 dmg
This combo will build you back nearly all the meter you spend doing the combo... That's pretty much all you'll spend your meter on... besides rdp+BD as a reversal and EX FB DM for full screen punishes...
If you really want damage mid-screen then you can do these...
(2 meter + 0 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B, qcbx2+AC = 450/410 dmg
(2 meters + 1 DC) - j.C/cr.B, s.B, s.C, cr.B/s.B, rdp+BD *7 hits*, DC, air qcb+C, rdp+BD = 488/448 dmg
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Anyone knows if there is any difference between Kensou rekka A and C in the console version?
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Kensou is so Top Tier...even though everybody beats mine.XD
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I'm pretty sure both of his versions of Rekka function the same. There is only a difference in range.
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Wanted to drop off before going to a friend's house to play KOF and see Cotto v.s. Margarito II
After some good practice I can finally do his rekkas consistantly( as well as Backflip cancels).
HOWEVER I can't seem to link anything after his target combo.I can do it fine entering from j.C/c.B,
but I have a hard time canceling afterwards. Am I doing something wrong?
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I don't have the game home so can't test things properly.
Can someone tell him if the DM grab can be cancelled in NeoMax in HD mode?
Cheers ;-)
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I don't have the game home so can't test things properly.
Can someone tell him if the DM grab can be cancelled in NeoMax in HD mode?
Cheers ;-)
Yes,right after the 50th hit of the DM lands.
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Wanted to drop off before going to a friend's house to play KOF and see Cotto v.s. Margarito II
After some good practice I can finally do his rekkas consistantly( as well as Backflip cancels).
HOWEVER I can't seem to link anything after his target combo.I can do it fine entering from j.C/c.B,
but I have a hard time canceling afterwards. Am I doing something wrong?
You must keep in mind the s.C has a looooooooooooooooooooooong animation, you must waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait and then do d.B, you can also mash the hell out the B button. But to understand when comes the time to land your d.B just do s.B,s.C, and then hold d. Look at the animation when Kensou goes crouching. With that you'll see the timing, with this method i'm going to learn the timing to connect the s.D.
Can someone tell me if the DM grab can be cancelled in NeoMax in HD mode?
Yes. At the end of the dm Kensou lands a uppercut punch and you can cancel it.
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Fuu: You can't cancel the st.BC target combo into a special move. You have to link cr.B afterwards (or st.D if you're feeling yourself) and cancel THAT into your special of choice. Maybe that's the issue you were having?
Michel: While in HD mode, you can cancel the Command Grab DM at ANY point into NeoMax. Obviously waiting till the last hit is optimal. :)
SAITSU! I'm watching you play on the KOF stream at NEC against Higaishi. You're doing awesome man! Best of luck.
edit: That cr.C with Terry to win the match was clutch. Haha good shit.
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Thanks Shart and Raynex.Looks like I just kept on trying to cancel St.C to Special.
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No problem dude. No go forth and rape faces!
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Man, I felt like I was playing horribly all weekend. I couldn't finish my rekkas consistently with Kensou for shit.
But I did feel like I needed to do more EX air QCB+P. Shit is amazing.
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Just keep working at it man. I was watching you on stream and you did pretty good. :) Clutched it out with Terry's cr.C against Higaishi.
In other news, I found a reset with Kensou that does 100% with Full HD and 3 bars. It's kind of ridiculous looking, but I'm sure it will work on someone the first time. I'm about to record it lol.