Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Robert Garcia => Topic started by: Poppy_Bros on September 28, 2012, 02:48:58 AM
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Hey guys, I'm a Robert player and I just found something weird with his command grab. There are 10 characters in the game that cannot be grabbed right after being attacked on mid-air. Why is that?
I uploaded a video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Jvxnldw_Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Jvxnldw_Y)
Please read the video description for more details.
Do you guys think these 10 characters have some specific properties to their sprites that make them invincible to throws longer than everyone else? Or is it simply a thing with Robert's command grab?
If any, this is really important for Robert's game since a lot of his game involves making use of this move.
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this is interesting, I always thought whenever I didn't get the command grab from air resets it was due to it being attempted too early but there probably is a lot more to it. I originally thought it might be due to characters having unique fall times but they've got to be universal. What Saiki mentioned in the comments makes a lot of sense of the phenomenon; a character's whose hitbox extends farther down will obviously be grounded faster than one with a shorter hitbox. We can probably look into this more.
by the way, shout outs to EX Hien being a godlike reset tool.
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http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1194.0 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1194.0)
This might explain a little bit. On the bottom of my post, it explains that characters have varying throw invulnerability after blocking certain normals. The characters that get a more generous amount of time might be the characters you're talking about. This data's from the arcade version, but the concept (as well as with most characters' data) is still the same.
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And from what I can remember, Duo Lon has the highest blockstun recovery time, +2 if I remember correctly, obove the rest of the characters.
So again, I recomend you try it on ground. Hot plis delayed command grab.
Would appreciate on lnowing the result x)
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Thanks for the support, guys.
@MezzoForte: I know, I used to think that I was missing my command grab after reset setups because I was doing it too early. As you can see on the video, I do them all immediately after landing, and only those 10 chars can't be grabbed.
When you say that certain characters have a longer hitbox extending towards the ground, it makes me think that characters with such properties should be bigger characters, right? None of the 10 characters ( Kyo, EX-Kyo, Daimon, Ash, Saiki, Robert, Vice, Shen, Athena, and Kensou ) seem to be taller than average (except for Goro, and maybe Shen).
And yeah, EX Hien is an amazing reset tool. I actually have a lot of secret (or so I believe) technology with Robert, and it's so frustrating that I can't apply it to some characters in the game.
@Reiki.Kito: I actually suck with all framedata and such. Do any of the 10 chars that I mentioned have longer invincibility according to your chart?
@Saiki: I'm not really following what you are saying. So, you want me to hit a grounded character with any sort of normal grounded attack, try to command-grab him after that, and see how it goes for different characters?
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Yes, all the characters you listed (and their EX forms like ASH and EX Kyo) have longer frames of invulnerability. For Athena, Kyo, and ( if they share the same data) EX Kyo, they all have around 16 frames of throw invulnerability if they just hold block.
The bigger the number, the more time it takes to actually throw them.
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Thanks for the support, guys.
@MezzoForte: I know, I used to think that I was missing my command grab after reset setups because I was doing it too early. As you can see on the video, I do them all immediately after landing, and only those 10 chars can't be grabbed.
When you say that certain characters have a longer hitbox extending towards the ground, it makes me think that characters with such properties should be bigger characters, right? None of the 10 characters ( Kyo, EX-Kyo, Daimon, Ash, Saiki, Robert, Vice, Shen, Athena, and Kensou ) seem to be taller than average (except for Goro, and maybe Shen).
And yeah, EX Hien is an amazing reset tool. I actually have a lot of secret (or so I believe) technology with Robert, and it's so frustrating that I can't apply it to some characters in the game.
@Reiki.Kito: I actually suck with all framedata and such. Do any of the 10 chars that I mentioned have longer invincibility according to your chart?
@Saiki: I'm not really following what you are saying. So, you want me to hit a grounded character with any sort of normal grounded attack, try to command-grab him after that, and see how it goes for different characters?
Exactly, because all hit stun is universal with Light, Strong and special moves (some special moves vary hit stun). So, I do think what you are seeing in your video is actually a hurt box issue rather than a hit stun.
In other words, some characters land quicker than others because of their extended hurt boxes, longer boxes translates into shorter aerial time. This could be the issue you're experiencing with that setup, the characters you are able to grab at landing should be the ones with extended hurt boxes, or, the ones you are not able to grab have shorter hurt boxes.
So, I would recommend you try the setup on ground, say, light quick or punch into delayed grab, just let the light normal finish animation and try to grab it with the command move. This will let you know if in fact there is a difference in how long they get hit stunned.
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Shouldn't this be in the Robert section?
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Yes it should be, I will move it.
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so I finally bit for an Elgato Game Capture which should be with me in a day or so, and my first order of business is going deeper into this subject. Actually I'm really looking forward to putting out more resource vids for DC in general. I think it would be a really great project if a lot more people got involved and pooled in bits of info and had recommendations for the right content. Robert could definitely use it.