Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Shen Woo => Topic started by: nilcam on October 27, 2010, 04:08:50 PM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/shen.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throw
;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d = Kokakugeki
Command Normals
;fd + ;b = Fusenkyaku
His forward kick to the gut from his previous version, good reach, cancelable by itself, best move to activate HD with, and perfect to be used in most his combos.
Special Moves
;qcf + ;a / ;c (C version chargeable, cancel charge by pressing ;b / ;d) = Geki-Ken *
Swinging punch that lunges himself forward, good startup and recovery for his light version. A version is the most abusable move in his repertoire, safe when blocked, perfect to stop grass hopping opponents. Fully charged C version mimicks his DM with a DM flash, does real good damage if it connects (~30% if I'm not mistaken), deceivingly good vertical hitbox, crumples opponent upon connection. Guarding a fully charged leads to a Guard Crash into full combo.
- Ex travels farther, starts up quicker, and goes through projectiles.
;qcb + ;a = Fuku Tora Geki *
∟ ;qcf + ;a = Kanyuu Ryugeki
Two-parter starting with his double hand overhead then swinging back upwards launches the opponent for a low juggle (can be Super Canceled (SC'd) into his ;qcf x2 + ;a / ;d DM). Retains it's overhead properties despite being in a block string however is not safe when blocked if your opponent has a fast countering move. Unlike XII, he can cancel his qcb + A off of his command attack f + B. Extremely useful in his mixups and most damaging special to SC off of.
- EX version juggles opponents higher (high enough to connect his qcf x2 + A/C DM).
;qcf + ;b / ;d = Tenrenken *
Lunges forward with a sliding grounded uppercut. Not as useful for anti-air as XII as he slides forward even with the B version. Only useful for anticipated hops and maybe some jumps. ;d version combos off his BnB s.;c, ;fd ;b chain.
- EX version is much more useful, does an added hit and allows for juggles but is not the anti-air move that you would expect. Follow up with a ;qcf + ;d for juggles (otherwise opponent is too high and falls down vertically).
;hcb ;fd + ;a / ;c = Tamaken *
Command throw which combos off his ;fd ;b chain and even his light attacks if he's close enough. Without and drive canceling or super canceling, this is his strongest comboable special (even slightly stronger than Shen Woo Hammer).
- EX version crumples the opponent and allows for jugglable followups like (DM, ;qcb + ;a, EX ;dp ;b / ;d).
;qcb + ;c = Tamaken Deflect
Reflects incoming projectile. You can cancel the ending frames into any move however the most practical one is ;c Shen Woo Punch Lite and cancel if needed.
Desperation Moves
;qcf x2 + ;a / ;c = Tatsu!! Gekiken! *
Buffed up version of his of Shen Woo Punch Lite, does good damage, and is invincible after startup.
- EX version is much faster.
;c ;a ;b ;c (costs two stocks) = Bakuten
Causes Shen Woo to explode and glow yellow like SSJ. The explosion itself does about 312dmg and his attack increases by 30% while in this mode. Note, normally the minimum any DM gets scaled down to is .5 but since he gets the 30% increase the minimum the CABC DM does in a combo is .65 of 240, or 156dmg.
Neomax
;qcf ;hcb + ;a ;c = Tensho Bakushingeki
Fast chase down punisher, Shen glides across the screen and activates an upwards punch sending a blast upwards
Shen's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_(XIII)).
Console changes:
* Gekiken Fakeout has faster recovery. It’ll fail if the kick button is pressed too soon.
Gekiken maxed out will chip half the opponent’s guard meter
* Danken(throw) comes out slower. Neither weak nor fierce has invincibility. However, it can be Drivecanceled.
* Danken(reflect) builds up meter on a success. No drive meter buildup.
* EX Fukkogeki>Kouryuugeki has slower recovery when blocked. Completely punishable
Producer Yamamoto says: We’ve did a lot of adjustments to his Danken. The throw version is no longer 1F, but it can be drive canceled for additional damage. Gekiken’s feint has quicker recovery so it can be used to lengthen attack strings.
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Assuming you start each combo with j.C/D, s.C, f.B, here's a guide to use which combo to use under which circumstance:
No stock or Drive gauge -
hcb~f+P or corner qcf D, far C (~311dmg)
1 stock, no Drive gauge -
Ex qcf K, qcf D x2, hyperhop C (corner d.C instead~430dmg)
1 stock, 1+ Drive gauge
Ex qcf K, qcf D, qcb A.qcf A, [DC] qcf C, qcf A, (corner) d.C (~524dmg)
2 stock, 1+ Drive gauge
Ex qcf K, qcf D, qcb A.qcf A, [DC] qcf C, qcf A, qcf x2 +P DM (575dmg)
3 stock, 1+ Drive gauge
Ex qcf K, qcf D, qcb A.qcf A, [DC] qcf C, qcf A, Ex qcfx2 + P DM (~622dmg)
Naturally, should use HyperDrive if you have two cancel guages, so the rest are non-Drive guage combos:
2 stocks -
Ex qcf K, qcf D x2, qcf x2+P DM (~526dmg)
3 stocks -
Ex hcb~f+P, Ex qcf K, qcf D x2, qcf x2+P DM (~601dmg)
corner Ex qcb A.qcf A, qcf D, qcf B, C.A.B.C (~608dmg)
4 stocks -
Ex hcb~f+P, Ex qcf K, qcf D x2, Ex qcf x2+P DM (~663dmg)
corner Ex hcb~f+P, Ex qcf K, qcf D x2, qcf B, C.A.B.C (~671dmg)
5 stocks -
Ex hcb~f+P, Ex qcf K, qcf D, Ex qcf P, Ex qcf x2+P DM (~682dmg)
corner Ex hcb~f+P, Ex qcf K, qcf D Ex qcf P, qcf B, C.A.B.C (~691dmg)
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There are so many variations to his HyperDrive combos (HD) so it's really about picking your own poison. Fortunately, all his (Ex) DMs juggles so SCing/MCing isn't a problem.
If you don't like the fancy stuff then do the 5 stock:
(1) j.D, s.C, f.B, HD s.C, f.B, C.A.B.C, MC qcf~hcb+AC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBA-z3zY1qQ) is already ~977dmg (if you add a qcf+A [HDC]... before the CABC the damage is 983)
If you like to conserve stocks:
(2) NEW! In High-Def j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, qcf D, [HDC] C, [HDC] D, qcf D, qcf B, Bakuten (C.A.B.C) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThw1ultk_U#t=0m24) (2 stocks, 831 dmg)
(2c) NEW! j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C (charge slightly), [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcb A(whiff).qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C (charge sightly), [HDC] qcf D, qcf D, qcf B, CABC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#t=4m50) (2 stocks, 813 dmg)
(3) j.D, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, Ex hcb~f+P, qcb A.qcf A, delay [HDC] qcf+D, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf C, qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] D, qcf D, qcf B, CABC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTE1nyR0IF8) (3 stocks, HD, 870 dmg).
(3b) Also in High-Def starting with the HD bypass shortcut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThw1ultk_U#t=0m11) (hcb~f+ABC).
(4) Made popular by Haregoro's white Shen from the KCE vids: s.C/d.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, ([HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, qcf A) x3, CABC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl86pDdUGlE). (2 stocks 818dmg / 822dmg if you do Ex qcf x2+AC instead)
4 stocks 100%:
(5) j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, ([HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C [charge half a sec]) x3, qcf D, CABC, Ex qcf x2+P DM
(2b) j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] D, CABC, Ex qcf x2 +AC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThw1ultk_U#t=0m36). (1012dmg)
100% combos 5 stocks
(5b) j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C [charge half a sec], [HDC] qcf D, CABC, Ex qcf x2+P DM
(5c) j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcf A, [HDC] qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, CABC, MC NM. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ4Ycz5RsPA#t=0m09)
Special
4leaf's Shen 4 hit 100% combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWMFqrGXypI).
Fullscreen wall carries:
(7a) j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcb A (whiffs).qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C (charge slightly), [HDC] qcf D, qcf D, qcf B, CABC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#t=4m50) (2 stocks, 813 dmg).
(7b) j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, ([HDC] qcb A (whiffs).qcf A, [HDC] qcf D) x2, qcf D, CABC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThw1ultk_U) (2 stocks, 779 dmg). <-- I accidentally forgot the last qcf D, right before the qcf B (that's before the CABC) should be ~approximately 800dmg if you include it.
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Miscellaneous (will expand on later):
Although the patch removed roll-cancelling, Shen still has some viable techniques of bypass HD'ing:
1) Empty hop, then perform: hcb~ub~u~uf+ABC right before you touch the ground. If you do it when you land he'll just do his regular activation frames. This will activate Shen's HD and go into his Ex Command Throw so you can combo away (See combo 3 in the HD section).
2) Due to lacking a reliable crossup, the chances of landing a "s.C, HD, s.C --->" greatly diminishes. Fortunately, his s.B/Far.B is a great poke and after "d.B x2, s.B" you can activate on the last hit which will of course make you dash so you can press s.C (It might even do the s.C for you depending on distance but I gotta test that one out).
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Just a note that only the first and last links are still up. at least, when i tried them.
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just a note that only the first and last links are still up. at least, when i tried them.
There are two broken links there, I'll remove them now but the rest should all work. EDIT: Done.
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Shen wiki template is up, you can add more stuff now Kane
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Shen wiki template is up, you can add more stuff now Kane
Thank you kk123, I'm slowly revising my Chin so it's more readable. I'll c&p some Shen stuff later on today. UPDATE: Finally got around updating the wiki combo section.
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4leaf's Shen 4 hit 100% combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWMFqrGXypI).
UPDATE: Cool new variation fullscreen wall-carry HD combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#t=4m50).
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so i heard shen has some really strong option selects. anyone mind sharing them?
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If you mean his mind games/ mix ups (is option select a SF term?)
Most of it revolves around the ability to cancel his charge punch (qcf C(hold)). It pretty much keeps your opponent guessing if you're going to sweep, hop, dash command throw etc.
Couple with the fact he's got great pokes (a special auto guarding far C) , fast running speed and great jump attacks makes him a force to reckon with.
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option select is when your input is ambiguous (covers one or more possible actions) and the computer decides what to do for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL2zpySSymE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL2zpySSymE) this vid is a good example. ryu does a jump in fierce by doing dp motion strong + fierce. if rufus blocks or gets hit, ryu jump fierces. if rufus backdashes or does ex messiah, ryu ex dp's. ryu is only doing one input, but it covers his bases for three different outcomes.
anyways, i just heard from the commentary on one of the ai matchvids that shen has option selects that make it hard to approach him at neutral. i'm afraid i'm clueless as to what they might be.
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There's really aren't many very many option selects in the game. I think in the video they were saying option select but actually meant mix up options.
Here are a couple option selects but they are conditional.
1. Anyone with air throw such as Mai, if you attempt an air throw but doesn't connect will do a jump attack.
2. If you drive cancel without hit confirming, it will only come out if the attack hits and is not blocked. Otherwise nothing will happen.
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For Shen's Bakuten, is it possible for me to input it fast enough so that he just does it without doing a st.C first?
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For Shen's Bakuten, is it possible for me to input it fast enough so that he just does it without doing a st.C first?
No, but you can use something else to buffer it like d.A
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Ah okay, thanks a lot. I'll try to get that down. I think being able to anti air with it or reversal with it would be a good trick to have.
How exactly am I pressuring as Shen? What I'm doing is fishing for a knock down and then constant hop C or run for way longer than I should aiming for a counterhit C into a combo. I'm also using things like C f.B qcf+C and either charging or canceling into sweep right away. Any other techniques I should be aware of that would help my pressure game?
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For Shen's Bakuten, is it possible for me to input it fast enough so that he just does it without doing a st.C first?
No, but you can use something else to buffer it like d.A
The mook talks about hold down and tap, d.A, d.C (d.C doesn't come out), d.A, d.B (d.B doesn't either) and press C to confirm. Visually, it looks like you're doing d.A x2 but if they jump, just complete the input. The buffer time is pretty lenient, you can do something like d.C, dash (not too far) --> A.B.C.
How exactly am I pressuring as Shen? What I'm doing is fishing for a knock down and then constant hop C or run for way longer than I should aiming for a counterhit C into a combo. I'm also using things like C f.B qcf+C and either charging or canceling into sweep right away. Any other techniques I should be aware of that would help my pressure game?
Sounds like you got the gist of it but remember there are like 5-6 Shen players now in our arcade and everyone plays him slightly differently. Generally:
-I use qcf+A for quick poking, it does wonders on hoppers as well
-qcf C is used for the cancel into mixups for sweeps or dash command grabs or fully charged punches
-s.C, f.B, hcb~f+P is the combo of choice if you're not using drive or stocks
-s.C, f.B, qcf+BD, qcf D, qcf B, far B if you don't want to use drive.
-j.CD to control the air
-Vertical j.CD stops so many attacks it's not funny
-After conditioning your opponent to block a lot, dash command throw. The Ex version setups nasty combos (--> qcf+BD etc...)
-s.As for poking into dash pokes and then some more pokes.
-If possible, avoid using f.B in a block string and only use if you know it's going to connect. d.C (blocked), qcf+C (hold).D into whatever is good enough pressure and harder for your opponent to GCAB out of.
-Never use Shen's Hammer in a block string if you don't want to eat a combo.
-Far C (autoguard) into DM if it's a "counter" for air-to-ground attack, or just cancel into DM if you autoguard a ground attack
-Far C (autoguard) into HD mode works well but takes some practice.
-Some ppl like to go for Shen's 1 drive+super combo (s.C, f.B, qcf+BD, (delay) qcf+D, qcb+A.qcf+A, [DC], qcf+D, (qcf+A), DM and some ppl rather save it for Hyperdrive.
-End a HD combo in CABC if you know the more damaging Ex DM (qcf x2+AC) isn't going to kill them. The extra 30% damage of the CABC will pay off as long as you're not too defensive. EDIT: I stand corrected, turns out his CABC is subjected to the 30% increase in damage itself, so it does 312dmg instead of the original 240 I thought. Ex qcf x2+P does 320dmg.
-Kunio likes to s.CD from afar, fish for a counter, then DM
I know that's not answering your question directly but I hope that helps.
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Kane your post is way more helpful to me than you think! So many more options I never knew about. On the execution side of the field I can do Haregoro's HD combo 90% of the time. I need to learn how to force them to make mistakes better so I can start landing it in actual matches but I think that'll come with time. Today was a really bad day for me so I'm gonna take a break from playing for 2 or 3 days.
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Kane your post is way more helpful to me than you think! So many more options I never knew about. On the execution side of the field I can do Haregoro's HD combo 90% of the time. I need to learn how to force them to make mistakes better so I can start landing it in actual matches but I think that'll come with time. Today was a really bad day for me so I'm gonna take a break from playing for 2 or 3 days.
Thanks, I'm really no longer the person to really ask about Shen since so many ppl picked him up in the last few months but I'm glad to lend any experience I have to better equip your Shen =) As for a break, what's that? =)
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For those who find it challenging to do three light hits into HD here's something I noticed something (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeE4YXkuyvQ#t=7m09), ironically, when I was watching the video over and over again to practice the timing (like DDR haha). Why the fuss since it's just d.B x2, s.B, d.C, f.B --> HD combo...?
Many of you know by now, that normally if you're doing two light attacks into HD (e.g d.B, s.A for most characters will work) you can tap BC as if it was a third light hit chain and a s.C will come out automatically (referred as activating HD late). If you try to do the same thing after three light hits and activate the HD late, most of the time you're too far and the s.C will miss, hence you have to actually press BC early (making him auto-dash) and time the s.C manually. Since I'm rhythmically challenged, it's not as easy as I'd like so I stick with two hits and press BC--all the in the same "rhythm".
In the clip above, I'm almost positive but need to confirm, that the player is doing: d.B, d.B, s.B, d.BC in order to d.C into f.B after activating--hence the rhythm should be the same and d.C has deceptively good horizontal range. Also, d.C, not matter how far it is, is going to be a d.C but s.C becomes far C after a certain distance.
May not work for everyone, but this should work for characters with a good horizontal hit box for their d.C like Chin etc...
tl;dr - don't bother reading if you have decent hand-eye coordination plus manually dexterity.
UPDATE: Fail. Turns out he still manually inputs the d.C after autodashing, back to square one.
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Lately I've been landing falcon punches (charged qcf+c) all day but I can never get a full combo afterwards. My st.C always resets them. is there a trick I'm missing or am I doing something wrong? I see videos of people getting falcon punch into a full st.C f.B combo.
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Lately I've been landing falcon punches (charged qcf+c) all day but I can never get a full combo afterwards. My st.C always resets them. is there a trick I'm missing or am I doing something wrong? I see videos of people getting falcon punch into a full st.C f.B combo.
If they block it and you guard crush them, you can do a full combo.
If they don't block and get hit, the next attack will cause them to be hit into the air even if it's a s.C. In this case, you would want to do one of the following.
1. super
2. qcf+BD, qcf+D, qcf+D, super (2 power gauge)
3. qcf+BD, qcf+D, qcb+A, qcf+A -> DC qcf+D, qcf+A, super (2 power gauage, 1 drive cancel)
4. qcb+A, qcf+A -> DC qcf+D, qcb+A, qcf+A (1 drive cancel)
5. (corner) qcf+D, s.C or super
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Ooooh okay that explains a lot haha. I can't really remember clearly but I think most of my hits were guard crushing but I was still screwing up. Do you think it's a timing thing or am I remembering things wrong.
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Ooooh okay that explains a lot haha. I can't really remember clearly but I think most of my hits were guard crushing but I was still screwing up. Do you think it's a timing thing or am I remembering things wrong.
You just need to watch the opponent or look for the guard crush to pop up on the screen. If you see it, do a normal combo. If you don't see it and the move hits, do one of those 5 options above.
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Lately I've been landing falcon punches (charged qcf+c) all day but I can never get a full combo afterwards. My st.C always resets them. is there a trick I'm missing or am I doing something wrong? I see videos of people getting falcon punch into a full st.C f.B combo.
If they block it and you guard crush them, you can do a full combo.
If they don't block and get hit, the next attack will cause them to be hit into the air even if it's a s.C. In this case, you would want to do one of the following.
1. super
2. qcf+BD, qcf+D, qcf+D, super (2 power gauge)
3. qcf+BD, qcf+D, qcb+A, qcf+A -> DC qcf+D, qcf+A, super (2 power gauage, 1 drive cancel)
4. qcb+A, qcf+A -> DC qcf+D, qcb+A, qcf+A (1 drive cancel)
5. (corner) qcf+D, s.C or super
If you don't have any super then s.CD does the most damage.
Don't forget there are 4 characters that have more Guard Crush units(?) then the rest, everyone has 100 but Clark&Ralf have 120 and Maxima&Goro have 150, gangstas. Anyone that can block SHEN WOO PUNCH (although the Falcon Punch reference was pretty funny) is gangsta.
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I didn't know Goro could block Shen Paunch. No one uses him here so that explains why. I really need to learn a different style to mix things up. Lately i just turtle like crazy until I get a clean hit and then I usually end up backing off and turtling again. It works, kind of but my defense is awful so it makes no sense that I'm playing him like this haha. I know the theory of how to rush down with Shen but I can't apply it for some reason.
Then again I guess a strong defense is what leads to a more solid player. Some stuff I try to use is like Far C, d.C, qcf+A, j.CD, st.A, and GCAB to get out. Depending on the type of jump in I end up using different things. In general as I play I forget to use more than one type of anti air and I start leaning towards d.C and st.A. My biggest problem is if I get put in the corner. I end up blocking all day and then slipping up and eating a giant combo. I really need to remember to CD out or roll or something. That one meter is definitely good for getting them off and letting me take control of the flow of the match.
Wow, why did I just write all that haha. Does anyone have suggestions for an HD combo I can use when I am in the corner? I try to use the qcf+D [DC] qcf+C, qcf+A one. I forget who made that popular but that doesn't work if I'm in the corner. What I'm thinking is I can do qcf+D [DC] qcf+C(charge) [DC] qcf+D. Would looping that work?
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I didn't know Goro could block Shen Paunch. No one uses him here so that explains why. I really need to learn a different style to mix things up. Lately i just turtle like crazy until I get a clean hit and then I usually end up backing off and turtling again. It works, kind of but my defense is awful so it makes no sense that I'm playing him like this haha. I know the theory of how to rush down with Shen but I can't apply it for some reason.
Then again I guess a strong defense is what leads to a more solid player. Some stuff I try to use is like Far C, d.C, qcf+A, j.CD, st.A, and GCAB to get out. Depending on the type of jump in I end up using different things. In general as I play I forget to use more than one type of anti air and I start leaning towards d.C and st.A. My biggest problem is if I get put in the corner. I end up blocking all day and then slipping up and eating a giant combo. I really need to remember to CD out or roll or something. That one meter is definitely good for getting them off and letting me take control of the flow of the match.
Wow, why did I just write all that haha. Does anyone have suggestions for an HD combo I can use when I am in the corner? I try to use the qcf+D [DC] qcf+C, qcf+A one. I forget who made that popular but that doesn't work if I'm in the corner. What I'm thinking is I can do qcf+D [DC] qcf+C(charge) [DC] qcf+D. Would looping that work?
If you use that eventually they'll get knocked too far out of your range. This is the one you want to use.
qcb+A, qcf+A -> HDC qcf+D -> HDC qcf+C -> HDC qcf+D -> HDC qcb+A (miss), qcf+A -> HDC qcf+D -> qcf+D(or A) -> super of choice or d.C
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If you use that eventually they'll get knocked too far out of your range. This is the one you want to use.
qcb+A, qcf+A -> HDC qcf+D -> HDC qcf+C -> HDC qcf+D -> HDC qcb+A, qcf+A -> HDC qcf+D -> qcf+D(or A) -> super of choice or d.C
EDIT: Or the triple hammer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThw1ultk_U) is the one I use =) EDIT2: Here's the same thing with a d.B starter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBd33Txriyw#t=1m47).
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Yeah I learned that the hard way haha. I'll spend some time getting this down tomorrow, thanks!
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Found out something today - Already knew shen can cancel his qcb+C (Fixed -Kane317) to another special move when canceling fireballs, but it can cancel into itself. If the opponent does a multi fireball move, you can cancel them all =P
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Not surprised, though I think it's only useful for a handful of characters. Double Strike, EX Ventose and EX Hurricane Upper are the only ones I could think of, as well as some super cancelled projectiles. In theory, Athena's EX Psycho Reflector would work too, but Shen doesn't have a projectile, so...
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Found out something today - Already knew shen can cancel his qcb+P to another special move when canceling fireballs, but it can cancel into itself. If the opponent does a multi fireball move, you can cancel them all =P
I guessing you are referring to qcb+C right, cause the way you are saying it sounds like you are referring to both versions A and C which would be wrong since A version is the Hammer.
Also wasn't there a challenge in KOF XI about this? Shen vs Kings Leader Super or something?
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Found out something today - Already knew shen can cancel his qcb+P to another special move when canceling fireballs, but it can cancel into itself. If the opponent does a multi fireball move, you can cancel them all =P
I guessing you are referring to qcb+C right, cause the way you are saying it sounds like you are referring to both versions A and C which would be wrong since A version is the Hammer.
Also wasn't there a challenge in KOF XI about this? Shen vs Kings Leader Super or something?
Yes that move C version. Yep there is a challenge for that in XI.
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Found out something today - Already knew shen can cancel his qcb+P to another special move when canceling fireballs, but it can cancel into itself. If the opponent does a multi fireball move, you can cancel them all =P
I guessing you are referring to qcb+C right, cause the way you are saying it sounds like you are referring to both versions A and C which would be wrong since A version is the Hammer.
Also wasn't there a challenge in KOF XI about this? Shen vs Kings Leader Super or something?
There was, and that's where he got the idea from. It was XI's mission mode and it was Shen vs King and he had to reflect like 6-7 fireballs real fast or something.
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Alright guys! I don't know how it happened but I have a Shen again! For a long time I couldn't rush down and I couldn't do my HDs anymore even when I got a clean hit. I tried playing him yesterday and I could do everything that I couldn't. I randomly remembered how to rush down and remembered how to do HDs. Good day. Good day.
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No. 17's 1 stock HD 799dmg combo is finally up.
j.C, s.C, f.B, HD, s.C, f.B, qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, qcf D, [HDC] qcf C, [HDC] qcf D, qcb A.qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, qcf A, [HDC] qcf D, qcf D, qcf x2+P DM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfQgoRtTYlA)
All credits to him, I just performed it and CMD.Duc recorded and edited it.
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Qcfx2+P has counter wire on it, right? I'm pretty sure I got wall bounces on the couple of them I landed as counterhits today, but I was a little overstimulated with playing XIII for the first time, so I could be mistaken *laughs* . Anyway, assuming that's right, I'm guessing the typical options for what to do off of the wire are the same as the post-crumple stuff:
1. super
2. qcf+BD, qcf+D, qcf+D, super (2 power gauge)
3. qcf+BD, qcf+D, qcb+A, qcf+A -> DC qcf+D, qcf+A, super (2 power gauage, 1 drive cancel)
4. qcb+A, qcf+A -> DC qcf+D, qcb+A, qcf+A (1 drive cancel)
5. (corner) qcf+D, s.C or super
If you don't have any super then s.CD does the most damage.
but just wanted to bring it up in case there was something better. Might it be possible to do CH qcfx2+P, qcf+D, <juggle stuff> (basically Ash's #2/3, with the CH DM instead of qcf+BD)? Or what about CH qcfx2+P, (roll or empty CD or A~C, A~B~C) CABC, qcfx2+P, since that's already something like 770 damage (not considering any bonus for getting a counterhit or potentially using an EX punch DM)?
Granted, good players probably won't be getting hit with counterhit punch DMs often, but it doesn't hurt to have something in mind in case it comes up, since that seems like it should be a nice threat for Shen against mindless zoning, especially if he can get nice damage without using drive meter.
Obviously, disregard all of this if I'm just getting confused between playing XIII and messing around some in XI *laughs*
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I believe it does have counterwire, I never thought about trying to follow up with something besides a simple st.C. I think I'm going to the arcade tomorrow so I'll be sure to try it out. CH Shen Woo Punch is really rare though since it has a period of invincibility then the punch comes out so usually it just blows through whatever your opponent throws out. At least that's what usually happens when I throw it out.
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Qcfx2+P has counter wire on it, right? I'm pretty sure I got wall bounces on the couple of them I landed as counterhits today, but I was a little overstimulated with playing XIII for the first time, so I could be mistaken *laughs* . Anyway, assuming that's right, I'm guessing the typical options for what to do off of the wire are the same as the post-crumple stuff:
Yes, his qcfx2+P does have counter wire properties.
Except a crumple state in on the ground. You cannot juggle with Ex qcf K, Shen's Hammer would be too slow, qcf D is most likely too slow and depending on height and positioning would make it even more challenging to connected. Often times we do another DM, Ex DM, or just j.CD.
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Aww, I was hoping that EX qcf+K would be able to set them in a juggle state after the bounce. Disappointing :( . So basically, best to just punch them, and if they bounce off the wall, punch them again *laughs* . Probably not a huge loss since that should be a fairly rare situation anyway, but it would've been nice if he could've done some crazy wire stuff.
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after doing his chain with the punch feint (;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c) would it be safer to sweep roll back or jump in for another attack??
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after doing his chain with the punch feint (;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c) would it be safer to sweep, roll back, or jump in for another attack??
You know I always wanted to do more testing, but I know that a lot of times I'm able to sweep the opponent if they're trying to do that "string" on me, between the charging of the SHEN WOO LITE punch and the canceling frames, it seems like it's enough time to sneak in a sweep. I don't know if it was just my opponent but I've done it several times.
As for rolling back, there's still an inherent risk if it's read correctly. If I'm Shen and I see your pattern, I could Ex DM you or any fast move for that matter. Jumping in for another attack or just walking forward and poking with s.A seems to be good too. I'll need to test more to see if it's completely safe.
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i would go for the jump in attack bit i still gotta work on my small jump ins. i would say the safest is the sweep. i roll when i got my opponent on ropes they never expect it
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99% of the time in that situation I go for the sweep. It's the first thing that pops into my mind seeing how easy it is to pull off. Have you considered mixing it up and doing stuff like charging for a bit to see what they do instead of cancelling right away.
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the charge cancel in XIII has to be done faster then XII IMO but its worth it
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do any one know the timing to pull off ;dn ;df ;fd ;c after ;dn ;df ;fd ;a i cant get the timing of that move put together down
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do any one know the timing to pull off ;dn ;df ;fd ;c after ;dn ;df ;fd ;a i cant get the timing of that move put together down
Which move are you talking about? Did you mean the Shen Woo Hammer (qcb.A~qcf.A)? If that's the case you just do it as it hits.
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no the woo punch into the woo upper
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no the woo punch into the woo upper
You just complete the qcf+D motion right as the qcf+C connects. Think of it like canceling out the hit "frame".
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hey guys, i have a question. i was watching the match beween mr. kof and BALA at revelations, and noticed this weird thing thing that happens at 34:17:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7TKB4Pauw
shen blocks king's jump in, and gets a KO, but the hit that he does appears to be canceling his block stun, initially, i thought it was probably a CD counter, but the next round, shen still has 3 meters. what exactly is going on here? is this just one of his moves? sorry if i'm ignorant, but some explanation would be greatly appreciated.
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That's just his stand C. It has auto-guard at the start.
It's one of Shen's few defensive tools.
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wow that's so cheap lol
so it can basically function as a consistent anti air if you time it right? what other moves have auto guard, and what is the difference between auto guard and super armor?
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You still receive damage in super armor, autoguard doesn't.
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You still receive damage in super armor, autoguard doesn't.
At least not this year. FYI, autoguard is also referred to as Guardpoint if you ever read the jBBS.
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wow that's so cheap lol
so it can basically function as a consistent anti air if you time it right? what other moves have auto guard, and what is the difference between auto guard and super armor?
you are gonna hate Maxima
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wow that's so cheap lol
so it can basically function as a consistent anti air if you time it right? what other moves have auto guard, and what is the difference between auto guard and super armor?
you are gonna hate Maxima
It also has to be Far C. His close one doesn't have GP, so it's not as consistent as one would like.
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thanks for the info guys! much appreciated
this got me wondering though, does he have auto guard for his whole body? like, what if i did a sweep, would it still auto guard low? and i'm assuming it doesn't auto guard against projectiles right?
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thanks for the info guys! much appreciated
this got me wondering though, does he have auto guard for his whole body? like, what if i did a sweep, would it still auto guard low? and i'm assuming it doesn't auto guard against projectiles right?
Like all autoguards in recent kofs, it guards any one hitters, DMs, projectiles, whatever. The autoguard only pertains to his arm.
IIRC, the older kofs like Terry '97, had multiple "guard points" (which is why IMO the Japanese term makes more sense.) /OT
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thanks for the info guys! much appreciated
this got me wondering though, does he have auto guard for his whole body? like, what if i did a sweep, would it still auto guard low? and i'm assuming it doesn't auto guard against projectiles right?
Not against lows. 4leaf told me he's able to guard multiple hits as long as the hits are close enough together like Ash's fireball super.
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thanks for the info guys! much appreciated
this got me wondering though, does he have auto guard for his whole body? like, what if i did a sweep, would it still auto guard low? and i'm assuming it doesn't auto guard against projectiles right?
Not against lows. 4leaf told me he's able to guard multiple hits as long as the hits are close enough together like Ash's fireball super.
That's kinda strange as I don't think it can guard Takuma's f~b~f+P.
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That's kinda strange as I don't think it can guard Takuma's f~b~f+P.
I think it just means that Takuma's Zanretsuken is more of a "throw" than an "locking attack" or "attack throw". Also probably has to do with the number of blows, how much stun there is in between each blow, and if all hits of the blow can pull you into an animation.
There seems to be a large variety of hit-types in KoF; moves seem created on a "move to move" basis, to some degree. Makes it very interesting to learn what one can, and can't guard-point.
Oh, and general rule of thumb, guard points only pertain to the area that's actively casting the guard. Like with Terry's back in Rising Tackle in 97, Maxima crossing his arms over his body before his crouching C, or Kyo turning his back/shoulders to you before his DP in various games, there is normally an animation of some guarded body part or something being displayed, before the move gets to the "attack" portion.
These consistently apply to the upper body, and never the lower (if they DO do block low, it's probably a counter or parry, not a Guardpoint), with very few exceptions. Maxima cheats it a bit now, with his "Full body shield!" that he gets on his DM & EX DP+k, and Takuma had that full-body defensive stance in the 2000-series, but that's about it.
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thanks for the info guys! much appreciated
this got me wondering though, does he have auto guard for his whole body? like, what if i did a sweep, would it still auto guard low? and i'm assuming it doesn't auto guard against projectiles right?
Not against lows. 4leaf told me he's able to guard multiple hits as long as the hits are close enough together like Ash's fireball super.
That's kinda strange as I don't think it can guard Takuma's f~b~f+P.
That move is special, it also can't be countered.
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wow there is a lot to consider hahaha why is this game so good? AHHHH mind=blown
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What do you guys think Shen Woo's worst match-ups are? Athena's been giving me a lot of trouble lately, but that might just be me. I don't fight her very often.
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What do you guys think Shen Woo's worst match-ups are? Athena's been giving me a lot of trouble lately, but that might just be me. I don't fight her very often.
Goro and over char with an 1 frame throw i guess.
Goro especially because he doesn't guard crush automatically on a full charged ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;c, and can punish anyone in guard with his throw.
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raiden is my biggest pain
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What do you guys think Shen Woo's worst match-ups are? Athena's been giving me a lot of trouble lately, but that might just be me. I don't fight her very often.
I still don't really feel that there are "bad match ups" in the game, at least not significant enough in the general term used in other Fighting Game communities. Raiden gives a hard time to everyone, K' is abusive to everyone, so it's not a match up per se.
@Rex: Are you punch the fireballs away? Are you slapping them? Most opponents will think twice before launching too many projectiles at a Shen. What in particular are you having a hard time with?
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In my experience
K', Elizabeth and Kula
Those 3 characters well played, give shen a bad time...
As for Raiden, if he holds on to his kicks, just knock him down and ;dn ;df ;fd ;c full charge: bye-bye fatty
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Ya raiden isn't really much of a problem with shen until after the 12-16sec mark. Tread with caution after that. Ditto on the 3 that give him a very hard time.
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In my experience
K', Elizabeth and Kula
Those 3 characters well played, give shen a bad time...
As for Raiden, if he holds on to his kicks, just knock him down and ;dn ;df ;fd ;c full charge: bye-bye fatty
Don't say that! The Answer is convinced that Kula and Elizabeth is worst than Shen, he believes Shen is right underneath Raiden and K'. ;)
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In my experience
K', Elizabeth and Kula
Those 3 characters well played, give shen a bad time...
As for Raiden, if he holds on to his kicks, just knock him down and ;dn ;df ;fd ;c full charge: bye-bye fatty
Don't say that! The Answer is convinced that Kula and Elizabeth is worst than Shen, he believes Shen is right underneath Raiden and K'. ;)
No way! Kula and Elizabeth are definitely bigger douches than Shen!
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Sick Shen setups (http://youtu.be/PndqRE10eFw?t=35s).
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Sick Shen setups (http://youtu.be/PndqRE10eFw?t=35s).
It miss the sickiest, after a ABCD, little delay, charge qcf.C, you can't block or crush, the flash freeze reversal inputs, you can roll backward which is hitted by the qcf or roll forward where you can punish the recover with a qcf qcf +P
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@Kane: You had a really cool Shen reset (http://youtu.be/WBYs-RWLGUI?t=1h44m6s) during the NorCal tournament. It was a bit different from the one in that video.
I think it went qcf+BD, (walk forward) st.C -> qcf+A (whiff, opponent lands), st.C -> hcb,f+AC?
Whored my own link out -Kane317
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@Kane: You had a really cool Shen reset during the NorCal tournament. It was a bit different from the one in that video.
I think it went qcf+BD, qcf + D (walk forward) st.C -> qcf+A (whiff, opponent lands), st.C -> hcb,f+AC?
wow thats a really good set up i may have to try it
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@Kane: You had a really cool Shen reset during the NorCal tournament. It was a bit different from the one in that video.
I think it went qcf+BD, (walk forward) st.C -> qcf+A (whiff, opponent lands), st.C -> hcb,f+AC?
I stole it from the setup video lol. I'm not mistaken , it needs to be s.A if to trigger the weird overhead glitch on back turned opponents. That's what they did in the video so I just did what they did. The s.A is a bitch to time in the situation.
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First page has been updated with the console changes:
* Gekiken Fakeout has faster recovery. It’ll fail if the kick button is pressed too soon.
Gekiken maxed out will chip half the opponent’s guard meter
* Danken(throw) comes out slower. Neither weak nor fierce has invincibility. However, it can be Drivecanceled.
* Danken(reflect) builds up meter on a success. No drive meter buildup.
* EX Fukkogeki>Kouryuugeki has slower recovery when blocked. Completely punishable
Producer Yamamoto says: We’ve did a lot of adjustments to his Danken. The throw version is no longer 1F, but it can be drive canceled for additional damage. Gekiken’s feint has quicker recovery so it can be used to lengthen attack strings.
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1- ;dn ;df ;fd ;c Could by canceled by roll ( ;a ;b)
2- Bakuten increase his defense
kyo's neo max in shen (normal) 423
in Bakuten 352.
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didn't it always increase his defense?
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i thought i figured out some nice tech when i thought of doing crouching lp standing lp whiff into command throw or cancelling his CD into command grab to make a badass karathrow but the way proximity blocking works in this game with throws seems to make those things useless : (
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Yeah, I don't think karathrowing really works in KOF because of the throw invincibility window after blocking (plus you're giving your opponent a free ticket to alternate guard).
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didn't it always increase his defense?
because nilcam didn't mention it in the first page.
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1- ;dn ;df ;fd ;c Could by canceled by roll ( ;a ;b)
2- Bakuten increase his defense
kyo's neo max in shen (normal) 423
in Bakuten 352.
I confirmed number 2, I did not know that. I wonder if that was the case in the arcades. Someone test out 1.
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1- ;dn ;df ;fd ;c Could by canceled by roll ( ;a ;b)
2- Bakuten increase his defense
kyo's neo max in shen (normal) 423
in Bakuten 352.
I confirmed number 2, I did not know that. I wonder if that was the case in the arcades. Someone test out 1.
Number one works. I'll add it to the wiki.
EDIT: regarding Bakuten, I think his defense gets increased by 20 percent...
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Regarding the charge punch cancel, I tested if you hold back+AB it just cancels immediately instead of rolling.
In fact, as noted in the change notes, if you press the D to cancel the charge punch too early--it won't cancel. However, the back+AB doesn't seem to have that limitation. I'll need to experiment more. UPDATE: It's the same, turns out you can cancel as fast as you want charging by yourself but when you put it in a combo the D doesn't buffer long enough (s.C, f.B, qcf+C (hold)~D) and the same thing with the back AB.
His cancel is so fast now, at least in the corner I got: s.C, f.B, charge punch~feint, s.A to connect.
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So basically you can only roll forwards?
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So basically you can only roll forwards?
Correct.
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I'm really enjoying Shen in this game, he's a good character in my book even with his limitations which aren't that limited. The only thing I don't like is that his Punch charged at Max, doesn't crush guard anymore, it just doesn't make sense and kinda kills the whole point of charging it all the way.
Was there a specific reason behind that nerf because it was punishable if someone timed a roll correctly right?
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I'm really enjoying Shen in this game, he's a good character in my book even with his limitations which aren't that limited. The only thing I don't like is that his Punch charged at Max, doesn't crush guard anymore, it just doesn't make sense and kinda kills the whole point of charging it all the way.
Was there a specific reason behind that nerf because it was punishable if someone timed a roll correctly right?
yeah after the change there really isn't any point in charging it since by the time you get their guard low enough to
crushing they're probably going to no to escape.
but on the flip side don't you think it's a little unfair that if you mess up and block it on accident that you eat a super.
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The only thing I don't like is that his Punch charged at Max, doesn't crush guard anymore, it just doesn't make sense and kinda kills the whole point of charging it all the way.
Was there a specific reason behind that nerf because it was punishable if someone timed a roll correctly right?
As a Shen user myself, the nerf does seem excessive. At high level game play nobody gets hit by that charge punch, and yes, it is very punishable. I think they should make it so it takes off 75 guard gauge because at the rate the guard gauge replenishes, you'd have to to take him down to 40% then charge the punch if you want to get that guard crush.
BTW, welcome to DC ShinSyn, don't forget to introduce yourself properly (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0) over at the meet and greet section.
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yeah after the change there really isn't any point in charging it since by the time you get their guard low enough to
crushing they're probably going to no to escape.
but on the flip side don't you think it's a little unfair that if you mess up and block it on accident that you eat a super.
Not really, if the opponent can't roll against such an obvious move they should be punished for it, I mean it's not like you don't see it coming. The reward of a full charged move should be (in theory) a guard break if it makes contact, especially if you have to stand there for a fair amount of time to charge it.
The fact that he had a guard crush move make it reasonable that his mix up was lackluster (outside of HD mode), at least that's the way I see it. Shen is still a viable character even without it, it was just something that bugged me.
As a Shen user myself, the nerf does seem excessive. At high level game play nobody gets hit by that charge punch, and yes, it is very punishable. I think they should make it so it takes off 75 guard gauge because at the rate the guard gauge replenishes, you'd have to to take him down to 40% then charge the punch if you want to get that guard crush.
BTW, welcome to DC ShinSyn, don't forget to introduce yourself properly (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0) over at the meet and greet section.
I can agree with the bold in this post after looking at it from his perspective. If the punch took away 75% of the guard gauge, then I can see it still being a viable tool to use in high level play.
And thanks for the welcome. I was a lurker here and decided to post up since XIII is released on consoles. And I will stop in here to introduce myself.
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I'd guess that toning down the guard crush to just 50% is to prevent it from being a punish to recovery rolling his sweep in the corner. At least, I'm pretty sure there was a video of corner cr.D, qcf+(C), CABC, (MC) Neomax basically killing if you recovery roll the sweep and get guard crushed. I don't think anyone else had a setup where a recovery roll would HAVE to be followed by a reversal or else give a free combo, and if the opponent didn't recovery roll, Shen could still cancel the punch and get some oki pressure on.
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I'd guess that toning down the guard crush to just 50% is to prevent it from being a punish to recovery rolling his sweep in the corner. At least, I'm pretty sure there was a video of corner cr.D, qcf+(C), CABC, (MC) Neomax basically killing if you recovery roll the sweep and get guard crushed. I don't think anyone else had a setup where a recovery roll would HAVE to be followed by a reversal or else give a free combo, and if the opponent didn't recovery roll, Shen could still cancel the punch and get some oki pressure on.
there was also that time where fixel took out bbz's raiden (full health) with corner it on wake-up only with that type of mixup.
also @ shinsyn compared to shen's charge time in kof 2003 the punch is a lot faster and while you can easily roll out of it, and saying that after charging the move for that long it should guard break. isn't the case for a lot of characters in other fighting games with similar moves. plenty have moves that could be charged longer and the opponent has the to do something similar to a roll and block at the same time.
just so you don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the nerf.
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also @ shinsyn compared to shen's charge time in kof 2003 the punch is a lot faster and while you can easily roll out of it, and saying that after charging the move for that long it should guard break. isn't the case for a lot of characters in other fighting games with similar moves. plenty have moves that could be charged longer and the opponent has the to do something similar to a roll and block at the same time.
just so you don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the nerf.
It's cool. I'm sure most of us aren't a fan of this nerf but it's still holds a great discussion for the character.
The 2003's version of the charge punch was way too long if you ask me. If the user was crazy enough to hold that full charge to attempt a guard break, the user be punished. Most charge moves that are in fighting games that gives you the option to hold the attack, and it's a physical attack (Mind you, there aren't many), it guard crushes.
Projectiles (more common moves that can be fully charged in fighters) do not fall under the category of guard crushing, on the exception of 2 that I know of; Ryu's Denjin Hadouken, and Yuri's Alternate Fireball (Similar to Ryu's Denjin Hakoukenin) in 2003 but in these cases, those projectiles just say guarding is irrelevant. In the end, it does stun which in a sense leave you as/if not more vulnerable after being hit with it.
[Yes, I just compared DM's to a Super, reason being is that the moves that Guard Crush on contact with charge in these games are DM's, Shen's DM does not have the Charge-Guard Break option so his Super move does.]
I can understand this nerf being something done for the "Interest of Fairness" for those who can't avoid and punish it, but it's an unnecessary nerf IMO since you have various options to avoid the situation of being guard crushed by it. But if it's true that there was an unavoidable set up for it, they could do what someone noted earlier, have it set to get rid of 75% of the guard gauge.
Well, this is how the game was made, and there's no changing it so I really don't have much of a choice, but to deal with it though.
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also @ shinsyn compared to shen's charge time in kof 2003 the punch is a lot faster and while you can easily roll out of it, and saying that after charging the move for that long it should guard break. isn't the case for a lot of characters in other fighting games with similar moves. plenty have moves that could be charged longer and the opponent has the to do something similar to a roll and block at the same time.
just so you don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the nerf.
It's cool. I'm sure most of us aren't a fan of this nerf but it's still holds a great discussion for the character.
The 2003's version of the charge punch was way too long if you ask me. If the user was crazy enough to hold that full charge to attempt a guard break, the user be punished. Most charge moves that are in fighting games that gives you the option to hold the attack, and it's a physical attack (Mind you, there aren't many), it guard crushes.
Projectiles (more common moves that can be fully charged in fighters) do not fall under the category of guard crushing, on the exception of 2 that I know of; Ryu's Denjin Hadouken, and Yuri's Alternate Fireball (Similar to Ryu's Denjin Hakoukenin) in 2003 but in these cases, those projectiles just say guarding is irrelevant. In the end, it does stun which in a sense leave you as/if not more vulnerable after being hit with it.
[Yes, I just compared DM's to a Super, reason being is that the moves that Guard Crush on contact with charge in these games are DM's, Shen's DM does not have the Charge-Guard Break option so his Super move does.]
I can understand this nerf being something done for the "Interest of Fairness" for those who can't avoid and punish it, but it's an unnecessary nerf IMO since you have various options to avoid the situation of being guard crushed by it. But if it's true that there was an unavoidable set up for it, they could do what someone noted earlier, have it set to get rid of 75% of the guard gauge.
Well, this is how the game was made, and there's no changing it so I really don't have much of a choice, but to deal with it though.
actually i was refering to tekken with the point about charging moves. because over the years there have been plenty of moves that you can charge ( although they tend to be pretty quick ) that don't hit through.
also you can block sean's tackle in 3s and you execute the move by holding the move for the grab to come out.
and i also wanted to give you a welcome to DC :)
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Drive cancelling his command throw make him more scary in the wall..
but i want to ask...does he have moves thAT give him advantage on block..???..you know the frame trap thing..or counter hit setups..
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Is this wishful thinking or is there a trick to do qcf+k [DC] qcf+p without the super coming out?
It seems important to some of his combos and I can't quite seem to get it to work.
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Is this wishful thinking or is there a trick to do qcf+k [DC] qcf+p without the super coming out?
It seems important to some of his combos and I can't quite seem to get it to work.
There's no trick, you just have to do the qcf+P slower.
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It seems like it should be one of the easiest HD combos, and it probably is, but I keep getting super as well. Yea I can see that you have to slow the QCF+C after the QCF+D, but to loop this at that speed, rhythmically a few times, is irksome. What's crazy is I mashed my way through it completely one time while on the phone without buffering any supers. But after that, either too fast or too slow. Sigh...