Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Elisabeth Branctorche => Topic started by: nilcam on October 27, 2010, 05:15:53 PM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/elisabeth_02.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d close = Manier
A simple grab then smack, a pretty straight forward throw
- Can be broken
- Hit Detection: Close
- Damage: 100
Command Moves
;fd + ;b = Cou de Pied Ann
A hard thrust kick attack much like her CD attack, excellent reach, really good for stringing stand attacks into special attacks
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 50
Special Attacks
;qcf + ;a / ;c = Etincelles *
Light swipe attack, the weak version comes out fairly quick so it can be safely be used to build meter when the opponent is on the other side of the screen or on the ground, the strong version stays out a bit longer but at the same time has a slower start-up so it may be difficult to combo into, it can also nullify projectiles whether they're on the ground or in the air, all versions knockdown standing opponents, both the weak and strong versions are super cancel-able on the 2nd hit
- EX does more hits and comes out just as fast as the weak version
- Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70/55x2/60x3
;dp + ;a / ;c = Coup De Veine *
A very fast light uppercut that juggles the opponent, weak version goes about half screen but can be chained together twice, strong version goes farther and can be chained to the weak version also has start-up invincibility, both version can be drive/super canceled on hit
- EX has complete invincibility during the dash, goes pass projectiles and when it hits it launches the opponent into the air vertically
- Drive/Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 60/80
;qcf + ;b / ;d = Reverie-souhaiter
Forward dash, has upper body invincibility
- Cancellable
;qcb + ;b / ;d = Reverie-prier
Backward dash, has lower body invincibility
- Cancellable
;qcb + ;a / ;c = Reverie-jere
Instant counter teleport that punishes normals to EX attacks, weak version works against air attacks although it's not fast enough to follow-up with a punish so it's more like a quick getaway move or reversal, strong version works against low/mid attacks and the recovery is good enough to follow-up with a punish or a throws
- EX is an instant counter that works on high/mid/low attacks, when successfully used it temporarily locks the opponent in hit-stun long enough for you to start a combo and punish accordingly, also when used on an air opponent it automatically pulls them to the ground
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Close High/Mid/Low on hit
;hcb ;fd + ;a / ;c (close) = Mistral *
A light pillar instant command grab that launches the opponent into the air then they plummet to the ground
- EX launches the opponent higher into the air which allows you to combo afterward
- Hit Detection: Close
- Damage: 150/100
Desperation Moves
;qcf x 2 + ;a / ;c = Noble Blanc
Elisabeth steps forward and makes a large light energy ball, nullifies all projectiles thrown at it, good for interrupting jump-ins and attacks their attack
- EX The light energy ball leaves her hand and hits the opponent 12 times, it also carries them to the other side of the screen whether they're on the ground or in the air
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 18x10/20x14+60
;qcf ;hcb + ;a / ;c = Grand Rafale
Light uppercut to a light palm attack in the air, obscenely fast, it's so fast that it easily connects after the majority of air-to-air attacks along with her weak Coup de Veine, can be max-canceled on hit when in HD mode
- Max Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 40+10x13+30
Neomax
;qcb ;hcf + ;b ;d = Etoile Filanto
Instant counter to full screen light wave attack, when used as a standalone move it only activates as a counter, when max canceled it completely bypasses the counter aspect
- Hit Detection: Hit
- Damage: 25x19
Elizabeth's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Elisabeth_Branctorche_(XIII)).
Console changes:
- Etincelle (qcf+P) builds up less meter
- Ex Reverie-Geler (qcb+P) has a longer recovery time on a success. Because of that, normal moves can’t be used to make an additional hit. The recovery time can be canceled with a special.
- An Ex version of her Reverie-Souhaiter (qcb+K) and Reverie-Prier (qcf+K) have been added in the game. It’s invincible while in movement and cancelable with a special. What’s more, the special will automatically come out as an Ex version without the cost of a meter. However, supers are an exception and will not turn into an Ex.
* Grand Rafale’s (qcf,hcb+P) damage has been dropped from 200 to 150.
- Noble-Blanche (qcf*2+P) has longer invincibility.
- Ex Noble-Blanche’s hitbox has been changed so that it’s easier to get in all the multiple hits. With this change, it lands full hit in the corner.
* Grand Rafale has more Max cancelable frames.
Producer Yamamoto says:
With the new Ex version of Reverie-souhaiter and Reverie-prier, she has more options for attacks. It can even be used as a sort of running throw with Mistral (hcb~f+P), so please try things out. Grand Rafale’s damage has been reduced to 150, but it can be Max canceled even after the first hit now. Also, Noble-Blanche can be Max canceled as well, so it can be used in various situations such as the finishing touch on combos.
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Normals
Standing
st. ;a - A quick slap attack, a relatively basic poke and it's pretty fast but still nothing fancy
- Chain/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 25
st. ;b - A kick aimed towards there legs (hits low), pretty quick
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 30
st. ;c - Light palm attack, the range on it is a bit farther than it looks because the hitbox stretches a little further away from just her palm
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 80
st. ;d - High kick, good range, goes high enough to double as a decent AA
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 80
cl. ;c - Light palm attack, good range, fast, this will be your main BnB combo starter
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70
cl. ;d - Same as the far version, except if you use it up close it can hit crouching opponents as well
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70
Crouching
cr. ;a - It's the same as her st. A except she's crouching now
- Chain/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 25
cr. ;b - A quick crouching kick, a pretty good poke that's great for chaining lights into combos
- Chainable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 30
cr. ;c - Crouch light palm attack, the reach isn't too great but the vertical range is decent
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 75
cr. ;d - Crouch kick, knocks standing opponents down when hit, whiff cancel-able
- Whiff/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 80
Jumping
j. ;a - jump light punch, just a quick hit in the air, good for air-to-air hits, will be discussed later in the notes section
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 45(40)
j. ;b - jump light kick, a moderately simple move, has it's uses I suppose
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 45(40)
j. ;c - Light palm attack in air, a pretty good attack in air-to-air if you're close enough
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 72(70)
j. ;d - Good range, good priority, easily the preferred tool for jump-ins
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 70(68)
Blowback Attack
;c ;d - A hard thrust kick attack, excellent reach
- Whiff/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 75
j. ;c ;d - Jump hard kick, mimics her j.D except with knock back
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 90(80)
GC ;c ;d: Guard Cancel Blowback Attack
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 10
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Gameplay Notes
Elisabeth is a powerhouse character that revolves around punishing, counters, and juggles. She is a very scary character to jump-in against because of her Grand Rafale. She can safely build meter and nullify projectiles with Etincelles and Noble Blanc. She can avoid and fake out opponents with her Reverie-Souhaiter/Prier but also counter them to set-up BnBs/combos with her Reverie-jere. She can mix up in the corner with Mistral command grab and can carry/juggle the opponent to the corner with her Coup de Veine. Her HD combos consists of her doing her dp attack and Etincelles. Her play-style will fit anyone looking for a seek and destroy character, or just a great anchor.
Tips
- When Jump A, Jump D, or Jump CD hit successfully air-to-air you can follow with the qcf hcb P DM
- st. A, cl. D, and st. C when successfully used as an AA can also lead to the qcf hcb P DM as well
- qcf A when used as an AA can lead to dp A
- J CD and dp A on counter hit can lead to dp C
Pros
- Punishes jump-ins very well
- Very fast dp launcher
- Good corner mix-up
- Unique Maneuverability
- Very damaging juggle combos
- Can build meter quick, and nullify projectiles
- Good counter lock-down
Cons
- Homogeneous offensive play-style
- Needs meter to do damage
- Mediocre Neo Max combos
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Combos
Combo Notation
(HD) - Activate Hyperdrive
(HDC) - Hyperdrive Cance
(DC) - Drive Cancel
(SC) - Super Cancel
(MC) - MAX Cancel
DMG - Damage
- cr.B, cr.A, dp Ax2, JD, qcf hcb P
- cr. B, dp Ax2, JD, qcf hcb P
- (corner) JD, st. C, f B, dp C, qcf C, dp A, JD, qcf hcb P
- JD, st. C, f B, dp C, dp A, JD, qcf hcb P
- st.C, f B, dp C, dp A×2, JD, qcf hcb P
- (close) hcb f AC, qcf C, dp Ax2, JD, qcf hcb P
- (close) hcb f AC, dp C, qcf C, dp A, JD, qcf hcb P
- dp AC, qcf C, dp Ax2, JD, qcf hcb P
- qcb AC (counter), st. C, f B, dp C, dp A, JD, qcf hcb P
HD Combos
- cr. Bx2, [HD] st. C, f B, dp C, (dp A, [HDC] qcf K, qcf C×1~2) dp A, JD, qcf hcb P
- cr. Bx2, [HD] st. C, f B, dp C,(dp A, [HDC] qcf K, qcf C×1~2) dp A, JD, qcf hcb P, [MC) qcb hcb BD
- st. C, f B, [HD] st. C, f B, dp C, (dp A, [HDC] qcf K, qcf C×1~2) dp A, JD, qcf hcb P
- JB, st. C, f B, [HD] st. C, f B, dp C, qcf C, dp A, [HDC] qcf K, qcf C×2, st. A, qcf hcb P, [MC) qcb hcb BD
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A discussion with Toxic Avanger and DarkChaotix From ON:
definite Liz standout in these matches. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLbP1J33uLI#t=4m43)
Liz is known to be able to hit with 3 dps with the proper timing and the proper button strength.... What the player did here by missing that far standing B was not creating a bug that allowed him to land extra hits, but instead used the kick to measure the length of the delay that needs to be put between the first dp and the second one in order to enable a third one.
The combo itself has been pointed out by Perfect Stranger earlier in the thread.
Is that a back turn only combo at 6:34? Fuck me!!!!
I wouldn't know if it's back turned only, but it did looked like it was easier to pull of from the back. The true details of the combo haven't been explored as of yet, but what it is known is that at certain circumstances Liz OTG DM will whiff the last hit, if that happens the enemy is not slammed into the ground but is instead knocked to the floor softly, allowing Liz to land yet another punch and DM.
The fact that this follows conditions probably make it too specific to be an infinite, as of now I can only speculate that for the last hit to whiff, the DM must be landed as high as possible.... I suppose that I should search a jp bbs when I have the time as to uncover the secret.
Sum: Using, s.B, the Liz player whiff's a s.B and cancels it into the second dp (A version in this case) to gauge his timing so that he can do the third dp, real clever. You also get to see a specific corner condition double DM combo as well.
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I'm revising the wiki so you may need to c&p over the info again later on, but yeah Liz can dp, Granda Rafale, st.C reset then do Grand Rafale again, shit is nuts.
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err I have trouble connecting the j.D after the 2 dps any tips?
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err I have trouble connecting the j.D after the 2 dps any tips?
It's actually neutral jump D, my bad I should've been more specific.
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Posting this combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlt6fgzerA#t=10m12) since it's not the BnB you see all the time.
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I saw something pretty interesting that i hadn't seen prior to this, but does the stand jab reset after super only work in the corner?
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I saw something pretty interesting that i hadn't seen prior to this, but does the stand jab reset after super only work in the corner?
Yeah, and it would seem it's conditional to the height of the juggle so the final hit didn't knock then down.
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Hi everyone!
I found the guard crush trap what I named "17 trap". lol
If you feel it's a useful, let's try it!
[Conditions]
・It makes a opponent induced guard crush by continuous block except
Ralf, Clark, Daimon and Maxima
・Liz can combo in the corner wherever she starts this trap because she
proceeds by dp+P.
・It uses 1 stock and 100% drive.
・It is avoided by guard cancel attack or roll if a opponent has a stock.
・It starts by small j.CD (it's easy to be blocked by a opponent)
[Detail]
small j.CD, cl.C, f.B, HD, CD, dp+C, (HDC)qcf+AC, CD, dp+A(guard
crush), small vertical j.C, cl.C, f.B, dp+C, qcf+C, dp+A, (HDC)qcf+K,
qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A, (HDC)qcf+K, qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A, dp+A,
(If she has no stock) j.C
(If she has 1 stock) j.C, qcf hcb+P
(If she has 2 stocks) j.A, qcf hcb+P, cl.C, qcf hcb+P
If you change qcf+K, qcf+A(guard crush), small j.C instead of
dp+A(guard crush), small vertical j.C, it's easier to hit small j.C
right after because qcf+A's recovery frame is less than dp+A.
But the command is little bit harder than use dp+A, so it's up to you.
If you feel it's difficult small j.C after guard crush, you don't need it.
It's nasty!! Don't you think so? lol
By the way, I don't publish it yet to Japanese players... lolol
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Damn, that's crazy!
I suppose having a full HD bar and a cornered opponent with no bars wouldn't happy very often, but still really cool. I've actually never considered the guard crush potential of HD. I wonder if any other characters can do something like this.
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Hi everyone!
I found the guard crush trap what I named "17 trap". lol
If you feel it's a useful, let's try it!
[Conditions]
・It makes a opponent induced guard crush by continuous block except
Ralf, Clark, Daimon and Maxima
・Liz can combo in the corner wherever she starts this trap because she
proceeds by dp+P.
・It uses 1 stocks and 100% drive.
・It is avoided by guard cancel attack or roll if a opponent has a stock.
・It started by small j.CD (it's easy to be blocked by a opponent)
[Detail]
small j.CD, cl.C, f.B, HD, CD, dp+C, (HDC)qcf+AC, CD, dp+A(guard
crush), small vertical j.C, cl.C, f.B, dp+C, qcf+C, dp+A, (HDC)qcf+K,
qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A, (HDC)qcf+K, qcf+C, qcf+C, dp+A, dp+A,
(If she has no stock) j.C
(If she has 1 stock) j.C, qcf hcb+P
(If she has 2 stock) j.A, qcf hcb+P, cl.C, qcf hcb+P
If you change qcf+K, qcf+A(guard crush), small j.C instead of
dp+A(guard crush), small vertical j.C, it's easier to hit small j.C
right after because qcf+A's recovery frame is less than dp+A.
But the command is little bit harder than use dp+A, so it's up to you.
If you feel it's difficult small j.C after guard crush, you don't need it.
It's nasty!! Don't you think so? lol
By the way, I don't publish it yet to Japanese players... lolol
I will be testing it this week! Thanks Kunio :)
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when your attacking in HD and your opponent is blocking he gets bar for blocking, you dont. just how fast doies the bar fill? like does it fill completely before the guard crush if the opponent has no meter at all? and how empty does it have to be? like when opponent has a 1/4 of meter he will have 1 bar filled before being guard crushed.
either way good find.
also kunio, are your friends still planning on making those combo vids? the guys who did te womans team and iori team?
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[Conditions]
・It makes a opponent induced guard crush by continuous block except
Ralf, Clark, Daimon, Maxima and Mr.KOF * Fixed! :)
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"Immortals... we'll put their name to the test"
;)
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Just a quick question, to get the double Grand Rafale do I precede it with a dp+A correct? Then I want to land a j.A at the highest possible point?
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In doing the double Grand Rafale, I believe it's where the character is positioned during the fall after the j.A.
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Just a quick question, to get the double Grand Rafale do I precede it with a dp+A correct? Then I want to land a j.A at the highest possible point?
I don't quite understand the question?
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You can disregard the first part of that. I'm just wondering about the spacing of the j.A I've tried for a while but I can't get the double Grand Rafale and I was wondering if I'm missing something. Here's what I'm doing (normal bnb, end in ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, hold ;uf, press ;a as soon as I jump. Grand Rafale). They never fall weird so I can reset them with st.C into another Grand Rafale.
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has anyone experienced supercancel instead of drivecancel while doing dp+ A, qcf+ C. IT ALWAYS KEEPS ON SUPER CANCELING. :| :(
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has anyone experienced supercancel instead of drivecancel while doing dp+ A, qcf+ C. IT ALWAYS KEEPS ON SUPER CANCELING. :| :(
You're not waiting long enough after the dp+A.
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When should I input the qcf+ ;c then? Umm right after it hits? or after? Cause when I try after it doesn't hit... ._.
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When should I input the qcf+ ;c then? Umm right after it hits? or after? Cause when I try after it doesn't hit... ._.
Refer to the shortcut list in the gameplay thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg2359#msg2359). There's a lot of useful information on the first page if you're new to KOF.
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whoah! Thank you! ^:)^
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What's the deal with her nj.D/C in combos? I've been having a lot of issues trying to get it consistently.
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You can disregard the first part of that. I'm just wondering about the spacing of the j.A I've tried for a while but I can't get the double Grand Rafale and I was wondering if I'm missing something. Here's what I'm doing (normal bnb, end in ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, hold ;uf, press ;a as soon as I jump. Grand Rafale). They never fall weird so I can reset them with st.C into another Grand Rafale.
Sorry for such a late reply, and here are the scenarios (facing right):
1. If you have your opponent in the corner try doing your bnb and after your dp just HOLD ;ub and press A, buffer Grand Rafael as you come down so that as soon as you touch the ground all you do is press the A buttons and the supper will come out. It is very important that you just hold ;ub after your dp and let her automatically do the jump after her dp, if you input the jump this will not work.
2. Mid screen. Same scenario, but instead of jumping ;ub hold ;up right after your dp.
If it helps, this is the motion I do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;uf ;up (HOLD ;up) and press ;a as soon as she is jumping.
What's the deal with her nj.D/C in combos? I've been having a lot of issues trying to get it consistently.
Just hold the motion of the jump you want to do right after you do your DP, if you are entering the jump motion chances are that you are going to miss the timing.
has anyone experienced supercancel instead of drivecancel while doing dp+ A, qcf+ C. IT ALWAYS KEEPS ON SUPER CANCELING. :| :(
Try doing this ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;uf ;c all one motion.
I'll keep a closer eye on this thread.
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Thanks Answer! Does it matter if I do A or C super?
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I don't think so, but I always use A super.
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Thanks Answer! Does it matter if I do A or C super?
I do it with A and it works, I'm sure the C version works as well.
What's the deal with her nj.D/C in combos? I've been having a lot of issues trying to get it consistently.
Happy first post Kage, feel free to introduce yourself properly (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0) at our meet and greet section.
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You can disregard the first part of that. I'm just wondering about the spacing of the j.A I've tried for a while but I can't get the double Grand Rafale and I was wondering if I'm missing something. Here's what I'm doing (normal bnb, end in ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, hold ;uf, press ;a as soon as I jump. Grand Rafale). They never fall weird so I can reset them with st.C into another Grand Rafale.
Hope this help anyone else....
Adding new link soon.
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Good stuff DarkChaotix, keep up the quality vids of yours.
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I remember testing this with my bro a couple months back. We initially had the same conclusion but I could have sworn further tests with other characters proved otherwise. I'll need to try this out again.
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I remember testing this with my bro a couple months back. We initially had the same conclusion but I could have sworn further tests with other characters proved otherwise. I'll need to try this out again.
Yes that is true and looking at my vid I failed to mention this. There were 3 characters that had "ambiguous" falling animation frames. They were Terry, Elizabeth and Leona.
I had this data while doing my testing but when it came to editing I forgot to mention this....
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Just hold the motion of the jump you want to do right after you do your DP, if you are entering the jump motion chances are that you are going to miss the timing.
Thanks for the reply, still a little confused, sorry. Just to verify, you're saying to hold up after the DP? So am I buffering in the jump?
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You can disregard the first part of that. I'm just wondering about the spacing of the j.A I've tried for a while but I can't get the double Grand Rafale and I was wondering if I'm missing something. Here's what I'm doing (normal bnb, end in ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, hold ;uf, press ;a as soon as I jump. Grand Rafale). They never fall weird so I can reset them with st.C into another Grand Rafale.
Ok redid vid to reflect info about Terry, Leona and Elizabeth.
KoF XIII v1.1 Tutorial - Elizabeth Double DM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL9s5s7Aji4#)
Basically Terry, Leona and Elizabeth frame for the combo to work is the same as the previous frame for it to not work. So checking to see the falling frame as DM is initiated wont work in this case (really hard to confirm). It works for the rest of the cast tho.
I cant find a way to write it correctly but i hope you guys understand.
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Just hold the motion of the jump you want to do right after you do your DP, if you are entering the jump motion chances are that you are going to miss the timing.
Thanks for the reply, still a little confused, sorry. Just to verify, you're saying to hold up after the DP? So am I buffering in the jump?
Yes sir that is correct buffer the jump.
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Just hold the motion of the jump you want to do right after you do your DP, if you are entering the jump motion chances are that you are going to miss the timing.
Thanks for the reply, still a little confused, sorry. Just to verify, you're saying to hold up after the DP? So am I buffering in the jump?
Yes sir that is correct buffer the jump.
Ok cool, thanks for the help.
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Only objection I have is that you used Chin as a victim ;)
Hell, you might as well make a video showing the triple dp+P with the whiff s.B to help with the timing since you're so good at these videos =)
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On a random note, I did not know you could stop her Ex dp+P with a d.B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKLY00IhoWY#) (15m22s).
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Only objection I have is that you used Chin as a victim ;)
Hell, you might as well make a video showing the triple dp+P with the whiff s.B to help with the timing since you're so good at these videos =)
Haha...Chin was the "smallest" character i thought
Are people having issues with triple dp? I could make one if someone really needed it.
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Showing where the first 623A should hit in relation to the opponent would be enough. Keep in mind that a whiff 5B (or whiff 5A, empty button) after 623C will not guarantee a triple uppercut 100% of the time so you may want to put that as a side note if you wish to include it.
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Showing where the first 623A should hit in relation to the opponent would be enough. Keep in mind that a whiff 5B (or whiff 5A, empty button) after 623C will not guarantee a triple uppercut 100% of the time so you may want to put that as a side note if you wish to include it.
As long as the s.B is whiff cancelled (into the dp+A) right after the dp+C, I've gotten it every time.
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Anyone have good footage of high level Liz play (other than the 1st page vids)? I'm having trouble with her neutral game other than the random EX counters and AA DMs.
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I wish i can say her last name (its to long and confusing :() O anyways i noticed in XII the was able to cancel her counter ( ;dn ;df ;fd ;k or ;dn ;db ;bk ;k) into another move like ;dn ;db ;bk ;c can she still do it in XIII
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I wish i can say her last name (its to long and confusing :() O anyways i noticed in XII the was able to cancel her counter ( ;dn ;df ;fd ;k or ;dn ;db ;bk ;k) into another move like ;dn ;db ;bk ;c can she still do it in XIII
Currently in arcade kof 13 if you counter something with a normal counter you get a free throw. If you use ex counter you get a free st.C combo starter. However this is being changed in console version. I believe in console you no longer get a st.C f+B, you just go straight into a special move.
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I wish i can say her last name (its to long and confusing :() O anyways i noticed in XII the was able to cancel her counter ( ;dn ;df ;fd ;k or ;dn ;db ;bk ;k) into another move like ;dn ;db ;bk ;c can she still do it in XIII
Currently in arcade kof 13 if you counter something with a normal counter you get a free throw. If you use ex counter you get a free st.C combo starter. However this is being changed in console version. I believe in console you no longer get a st.C f+B, you just go straight into a special move.
sorry i mean if you didnt get hit like how clark has that hop but she can cancel in the middle when she moves
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However this is being changed in console version. I believe in console you no longer get a st.C f+B, you just go straight into a special move.
I didn't understand that part about the changelist, doesn't her qcf/DP moves have just as much if not longer startup than st.C?
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I didn't understand that part about the changelist, doesn't her qcf/DP moves have just as much if not longer startup than st.C?
Yeah I haven't had any hands on time so I don't know hwo this works. Maybe it's something like you cancel the counter into a special now instead of how it is now. Maybe someone who's actually played console can clarify.
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However this is being changed in console version. I believe in console you no longer get a st.C f+B, you just go straight into a special move.
I didn't understand that part about the changelist, doesn't her qcf/DP moves have just as much if not longer startup than st.C?
I'm not certain, but I assume any normal (or f+B) automatically knocks down after an EX counter. Specials are the only move that allow for an extended combo. This is similar to Shen's EX grab, where any normal move automatically knocks down, but specials can still juggle.
At least, that's the impression I got.
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However this is being changed in console version. I believe in console you no longer get a st.C f+B, you just go straight into a special move.
I didn't understand that part about the changelist, doesn't her qcf/DP moves have just as much if not longer startup than st.C?
I'm not certain, but I assume any normal (or f+B) automatically knocks down after an EX counter. Specials are the only move that allow for an extended combo. This is similar to Shen's EX grab, where any normal move automatically knocks down, but specials can still juggle.
At least, that's the impression I got.
I remember on the Thursday weekend of Evo we got to test Liz out extensively, especially since it's The Answer's love child. It doesn't really makes sense to us either, but the normals just simply don't come out in time, the opponent would have fully recovered to block or whatever by then. The specials, on the other hand, will just hit. Don't ask me how, it just does.
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So I trained Liz a little last week and was trying to learn to incorporate her command dash more. I found she gets a nice little mixup off her basic s. ;c, ;fd ;b string. You can cancel into forward command dash and you have multiple options, you can do ;dn ;df ;fd ;a for safe pressure and meter, you can try a command grab, can continue with a low poke/hop pressure (risky), and you can also do backward command dash instead of the forward one. Generally, the first and last options are safest. Going for a poke after the dash is dangerous because they can mash out of it, the dash itself has lower body invincibility but you can be hit right after it. You can also be poked out off the ;a slice startup but it seems to be generally a good option.
About the command grab: I was thinking it was possibly a useful option select. I realized on-hit, s. ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ~ EX grab combos. However, if the s. ;c, ;fd ;b string is blocked, the command dash while still put you in range to get the grab. The opponent can backdash/jump to avoid this or mash out an invincible move. But if your opponent remains blocking they will get scooped. If they weren't blocking, they will still get scooped. Thoughts?
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About the command grab: I was thinking it was possibly a useful option select. I realized on-hit, s. ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ~ EX grab combos. However, if the s. ;c, ;fd ;b string is blocked, the command dash while still put you in range to get the grab. The opponent can backdash/jump to avoid this or mash out an invincible move. But if your opponent remains blocking they will get scooped. If they weren't blocking, they will still get scooped. Thoughts?
I know it's difficult to pull off in XIII, but could the opponent use alternate guard to avoid the throw?
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About the command grab: I was thinking it was possibly a useful option select. I realized on-hit, s. ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ~ EX grab combos. However, if the s. ;c, ;fd ;b string is blocked, the command dash while still put you in range to get the grab. The opponent can backdash/jump to avoid this or mash out an invincible move. But if your opponent remains blocking they will get scooped. If they weren't blocking, they will still get scooped. Thoughts?
By definition that's not a option-select but that's a new topic altogether. If I'm not mistaken, the opponent will still be in the block stun from your f+B so your command grab will miss.
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I was wondering how Close is Elisabeth to her XI or XII incarnation? because i wanted to see if i could incorporate any thing from those older game to her now in XIII.
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About the command grab: I was thinking it was possibly a useful option select. I realized on-hit, s. ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ~ EX grab combos. However, if the s. ;c, ;fd ;b string is blocked, the command dash while still put you in range to get the grab. The opponent can backdash/jump to avoid this or mash out an invincible move. But if your opponent remains blocking they will get scooped. If they weren't blocking, they will still get scooped. Thoughts?
By definition that's not a option-select but that's a new topic altogether. If I'm not mistaken, the opponent will still be in the block stun from your f+B so your command grab will miss.
Someone was telling me that the blockstun of f+B ends similarly to the time it takes you to command grab. You'd probably be able to make this close to unescapable but it'd probably take quite a bit of practice.
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About the command grab: I was thinking it was possibly a useful option select. I realized on-hit, s. ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ~ EX grab combos. However, if the s. ;c, ;fd ;b string is blocked, the command dash while still put you in range to get the grab. The opponent can backdash/jump to avoid this or mash out an invincible move. But if your opponent remains blocking they will get scooped. If they weren't blocking, they will still get scooped. Thoughts?
By definition that's not a option-select but that's a new topic altogether. If I'm not mistaken, the opponent will still be in the block stun from your f+B so your command grab will miss.
Someone was telling me that the blockstun of f+B ends similarly to the time it takes you to command grab. You'd probably be able to make this close to unescapable but it'd probably take quite a bit of practice.
But don't you have 9 frames after blockstun that makes you unable to be thrown?
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I don't pay attention much to Elisabeth, so I just noticed that she has Vanessa-like command dashes. How do people make good use of those dashes? (I may have seen them in a match, but they seem like emergency rolls to me...)
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I think when she moves forward, she has high invincibility and when she moves back, she has low invincibility.
The way some people use it is to extend into a pressuring attack while people are guarding and not pressing buttons. They hit them with her fireball. You can also do that and go for an EX grab which can go into a uppercut loop.
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I think when she moves forward, she has high invincibility and when she moves back, she has low invincibility.
Hold that thought, I think that's an error we haven't corrected. When I get a chance I'll test it out but I don't think there's invincibility. Of course you can still free cancel it into any special move.
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If that's true, Liz is going to be a lot weaker than I thought in console. Nerfed damage, nerfed meter gain, nerfed followup to EX counter AND her command dashes lack invincibility?
I'll probably still play her because I like the character design but she may not suit my playstyle much.
And by playstyle, I mean abusing overpowered tools.
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i dont think she got hit too hard...
Liz:
-Liz's midscreen, 1 stock no drive 511 damage combo now deals 391dmg.
-Liz's Ex DM now does no pushback on blocked opponents
-Liz's Ex counter only allows followups with specials, not normals.
-Liz still can do the reset DM midscreen still (personally tested).
-Liz now has an Ex qcf+K. Whenever you cancel the teleport it'll automatically perform an Ex version of the special you cancelled into (like Ex dp+P), only performing 1 meter/stock total.
and another quote from the console page
Elizabeth
• qcf+A builds little meter.
• qcf,hcb+P damage toned down.
•qcf,qcf+AC explodes on hit, meaning it no longer pushes the opponent back and can be punished more easily on block.
-qcb+AC counter followup recovery can only be canceled into a special.
• Older qcf,hcb+P combos didn't work in the newest build, but it may have been possible from the EVO build. May work from different timings or setups.
• New move: qcf/qcb+BD command dash. Faster, projectile invulnerable and has lower body invuln. If you cancel this EX dash into a special, it becomes an EX special for free (i.e. costs no Drive or Super Meter).
so that new special seems pretty cool~
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(blocked) cl.C, f+B -> qcf+BD -> hcb,f+P sounds like it'll be pretty hot.
Overall, Elizabeth is weaker, but her mix-up game sounds stronger. I think she'll be more fun in the console version.
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yeah her damage is overall lower it seems, but i dont think it will detour people from playing her~ if anything it leveled the playing field....look what happened to Raiden~ lol
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She does deal less damage than arcade but that's because she delt one of the highest (511 vs Maxima's 512, 1 stock, no drive, midscreen). 391 is still high for non corner; Terry deals less even in the corner.
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dosnt matter how much her damage go down shes still has one the best (if not the best) combo abilitys in the game now when they start changin her frame data then she'll b a problem
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Pretty much. A character doesn't really effectively change if all their move properties remain identical.
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Damage is a property of a move, is it not?
If everything about a character remains the same but their damage output is lower, in quantifiable terms the character is absolutely worse.
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just because her damage is lower dosnt mean a thing but what ur saying is that she is garbage because she deals less damage her combo and juggling ability made her strong and her great defensive and offensive moves
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Damage is a property of a move, is it not?
If everything about a character remains the same but their damage output is lower, in quantifiable terms the character is absolutely worse.
Technically, yes. However, in terms of the entire argument, she's overall the same and still good (she was just a little too good in v1.1).
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2 questions:
Does Etincelles still has all those juggles capabilities? I've seen some console vids in wich the Ely had the player against the corner and when she started doing etincelles they would miss after the first or second one. I don´t know if it was bad timming or it just doesn´t works as in the arcade.
My second question is regarding her Neomax, as a standalone attack it works as a counter. What happens if I throw a fireball (normal, ex, Haouhshokoken, whatever) and she performes it?
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In Regards to her NEO-MAX, since its a screen Filler...it would work(im thinking theoretically)
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she'll be absolute garbage but I'm thinking she's going to be noticeably weaker in console.
I am nowhere near a Liz expert but I have discussed it with very experienced Elizabeth players.
just because her damage is lower dosnt mean a thing but what ur saying is that she is garbage because she deals less damage her combo and juggling ability made her strong and her great defensive and offensive moves
It may sound like a simplistic argument, but raw damage output is very important aspect in character strength. If you think about the top tier in this game, it seems as if a key determining factor is the damage they can deal relative to their meter usage. Raiden, K', Shen, Maxima etc all do big damage for relatively low (if any) gauge expenditure. Compounded with the nerf to Etincelles meter gain (one her primary battery methods), you'll have less meter and even less damage potential with that meter.
Her comboability; long combos/juggles are cool but really what's important is how much damage they deal and meter they build. Her BnB is apparently reduced by over a 100 points, that's huge. She has strong juggle followups with EX grab and EX Etincelles in the corner, but again, both cost meter which she will be building significantly less of.
Offensive options; she has ok pokes and good corner pressure but as I understand it she's played best as a defensive/counter-offensive character. Her offense was "scary" because her DM juggle did so much for just 1 bar, which again, it doesn't anymore.
Defensive options; her best defensive option was probably EX counter. With nerfed meter gain you'll have much less access to prediction counters, and the follow up has also been nerfed, which again means less damage and less meter built back (assuming you were even successful with your counter).
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Its as Kane317 said before, the properties of her moves haven't really changed(as far as we know) so shes still solid~ her changes didn't hit her as bad as you make it sound. its not like she gained most her meter from whiffing Etincelles...and that's the main thing your stressing...
Sure she was Beastly in the arcade but maybe was too good...I can only say that the changes done to her was to accommodate the overall changes to the console release...if that makes any sense...
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she'll be absolute garbage but I'm thinking she's going to be noticeably weaker in console.
I am nowhere near a Liz expert but I have discussed it with very experienced Elizabeth players.
just because her damage is lower dosnt mean a thing but what ur saying is that she is garbage because she deals less damage her combo and juggling ability made her strong and her great defensive and offensive moves
It may sound like a simplistic argument, but raw damage output is very important aspect in character strength. If you think about the top tier in this game, it seems as if a key determining factor is the damage they can deal relative to their meter usage. Raiden, K', Shen, Maxima etc all do big damage for relatively low (if any) gauge expenditure. Compounded with the nerf to Etincelles meter gain (one her primary battery methods), you'll have less meter and even less damage potential with that meter.
Her comboability; long combos/juggles are cool but really what's important is how much damage they deal and meter they build. Her BnB is apparently reduced by over a 100 points, that's huge. She has strong juggle followups with EX grab and EX Etincelles in the corner, but again, both cost meter which she will be building significantly less of.
Offensive options; she has ok pokes and good corner pressure but as I understand it she's played best as a defensive/counter-offensive character. Her offense was "scary" because her DM juggle did so much for just 1 bar, which again, it doesn't anymore.
Defensive options; her best defensive option was probably EX counter. With nerfed meter gain you'll have much less access to prediction counters, and the follow up has also been nerfed, which again means less damage and less meter built back (assuming you were even successful with your counter).
all ur talkin about is how much she is gettin nerfed and the main 2 things ur saying is that her meter and damage but when u really look at it most people are going to use her as there anchor so most people are going to build at least 2 or 3 stocks. u talk about her offense and defense but just by what ur saying she is still good as a anchor
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In all honesty, she went from being a 4 to a 3 or 2 on the tier list. She's dumb right now, but the reduced damage makes her Terry status (Where combos require meter and don't do a huge amount of damage. However, the combos go on forever like Kula and with DC, she still can get up there.
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In Regards to her NEO-MAX, since its a screen Filler...it would work(im thinking theoretically)
I thought her NeoMax only worked vs physical attacks, i.e. no projectiles?
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In Regards to her NEO-MAX, since its a screen Filler...it would work(im thinking theoretically)
I thought her NeoMax only worked vs physical attacks, i.e. no projectiles?
yeah im not sure i was just saying in theory...it mite work~ don't take my word for it~
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I would assume if it could counter Projectiles, we might actually see Liz's use her NeoMax every once in a while (put a threat against people to say don't toss plasma at me? I'll take that).
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In all honesty, she went from being a 4 to a 3 or 2 on the tier list. She's dumb right now, but the reduced damage makes her Terry status (Where combos require meter and don't do a huge amount of damage. However, the combos go on forever like Kula and with DC, she still can get up there.
I'll politely disagree, she still deals a lot of damage. 391, mid screen, no drive, 1 stock is nothing to scoff at. There are at least 2-3 characters that do less or the same as her in the corner where you're meant to do much more damage. We're talking about basically 40% of your life 1 stock. She may deal less but she still has tons of options and it's not like her non-dm combos are weak either.
Defensive options; her best defensive option was probably EX counter. With nerfed meter gain you'll have much less access to prediction counters, and the follow up has also been nerfed, which again means less damage and less meter built back (assuming you were even successful with your counter).
IMO, her best defensive options are honestly some form of poke or qcf+P into DM.
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Let's not forget her new additional property of her Ex qcf+K; she still has her mixup game which is partly what made her so solid. Lastly, from the videos (and even metioned in Dune's elive interview) you can tell the meter gain is different on the defensive end now so building up to 1 stock should be easy.
EDIT: I tried finding my old list but I dunno where I posted it, probably in the Shen vs Liz discussion somewhere.
IMO what makes Liz strong are these combination of options which as far as I know are in the console:
-Decent combos even without meter
-Strong midscreen (anywhere) 1 stock combo, no drive combo. Why is this important? You may not build a drive in the first round, although you should, but you should definitely build a stock in the first round. Basically, it's a realistic BnB.
-Above average normals (j.CD, j.D, j.B) with a reliable crossup
-Start strong combos off low hits
-Ex Command throw mix up
-Ex Counter follow ups
-Efficient character in all positions
-Ex qcf+P still removes a lot of Guard meter.
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Replying to Fatacon's post from the General Discussion thread...:
I can't really agree with that. If you played her, you'd know that pretty much all her moves had important utility.
- qcf + p built meter and was integral for combos
- dp used for practically all combos and anti-air
- command grab for mixups, EX version for combo potential
- EX counter was a strong reversal
You're taking what I'm saying too literaly! ;) But as a counter point, how many matches have you seen with her, where almost ALL that was used was a spam of Jump CD / Jump D, and then the anywhere juggle DM?
I agree that she was a character with a well-rounded (by design) moveset, but she basically has a 2nd DM that no one used, teleport movement that was barely used, and lots of her players could completly forget her command throw / maybe even counter, and play in a straight-forward, dry way.
I don't really see how her counter gets so much worse by basically losing the 2 normal hits and / or HD activation chance off it. She's not forced into drive cancelling to do a combo, and she still has a special that can be looped into a normal reset + DM after it.
The only thing she didn't use a lot was teleport. It was gimmicky, but you could still use it decently in blockstrings. I think people just rode the wave of hating Liz. All they needed to do was tone down her damage, not necessarily change the properties on her moves. If they toned down her dmg and took away the meter gain on her qcf + P, she would have been fine. EX counter is going to be terribly inefficient after the changes. If you think about it, they're only making her more stagnant.
Eh, don't see the increase in stagnation. The EX Dash give her the unique ability to add invunlerability to any EX move she has, all for one bar. compared to the old EX counter & qcf+p meter build putting people on extreme movespam / turtle strategy settings. With her new changes, there are actually things you want to save meter for, other than Turtley Counter and anywhere juggle DM.
Also, making the EX Counter, EX Dash, and EX throw all have the same followup (A special move) works towards making each meter-burning option equal. It become less about "save the meter for the counter", and more "save the meter for the best option, per situation". Along with the "weaker" EX counter now making the Neomax Counter more tempting to use.
I think the changes they actually instilled are just more ambitious than the methods you stated. Not saying yours couldn't have worked or anything, just that... as a person who played Liz in XI (she was my main reason for playing it, actually!), what they've given her now, sounds so much more interesting than what she was. A multi-way mixup out of an EX) command dash just sounds excellent. Grab their slow-uptake moment, punish their backdash with a dashing uppercut, continue chip damage with a swooping arch special... Each of which will get more damage and follow up potential, if you guessed right.
I think the design philosophy for her character was less to be an unmoving wall (as her old options made her), and more to make her a free-flowing, "on your feet" kind of attacker, who had the bonus of being able to read and predict her opponents, no matter the situation. Basically making her stronger at deal with things up-close, and taking away her distanced, abusable stuff, has given her a more interesting focus.
Some players might still make her into something of a 1-trick pony (exaggeration!), but I think she'll be a better character overall, now.
If someone told me I'd be able to take Shermie's Diamond Dust EX, and turn it into any other EX move, I'd have been so happy :) .... :( Oh well. Shermie Alt colors for Liz, here we go!
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i like SNK's XIII style method of changing a character... it's WAY better than BB's method of changing characters... they either buff their characters to have/take-away everything... or make a character into something else completely... getting on point...
till now i found XIII Liz really boring... i agree with SAB-CA here... i like how they toned down her damage a bit now... but she still has ALL her options AND MORE now... EX tele letting u do another EX special for free? come on that's so cool... think of the crazy mix-ups u can do from this along with everything else she can do... might actually play her now...
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well im actuall cool with the changes as she seems more fun and intricate now~ as SAB-CA exaggeration implied~ one trick pony~ but it was true, most people used her in a sort of rush down only character that must have a high damage output as if there wasnt already enough characters that do that~ haha. point is Liz plays like the way she was intended to be be played now i would guess~ and it makes me want to get used to playing her in that way~
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First page has been updated with console changes:
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- Etincelle (qcf+P) builds up less meter
- Ex Reverie-Geler (qcb+P) has a longer recovery time on a success. Because of that, normal moves can’t be used to make an additional hit. The recovery time can be canceled with a special.
- An Ex version of her Reverie-Souhaiter (qcb+K) and Reverie-Prier (qcf+K) have been added in the game. It’s invincible while in movement and cancelable with a special. What’s more, the special will automatically come out as an Ex version without the cost of a meter. However, supers are an exception and will not turn into an Ex.
* Grand Rafale’s (qcf,hcb+P) damage has been dropped from 200 to 150.
- Noble-Blanche (qcf*2+P) has longer invincibility.
- Ex Noble-Blanche’s hitbox has been changed so that it’s easier to get in all the multiple hits. With this change, it lands full hit in the corner.
* Grand Rafale has more Max cancelable frames.
Producer Yamamoto says:
With the new Ex version of Reverie-souhaiter and Reverie-prier, she has more options for attacks. It can even be used as a sort of running throw with Mistral (hcb~f+P), so please try things out. Grand Rafale’s damage has been reduced to 150, but it can be Max canceled even after the first hit now. Also, Noble-Blanche can be Max canceled as well, so it can be used in various situations such as the finishing touch on combos.
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With the change to backdashes, anyone feeling some love for Lizzy again? qcf+D~dp+P on opponent's wakeup should chase down reversal backdashes pretty nicely, maybe even fast enough to pop them up before the backdash is over for a free juggle. Maybe even scarier if she opts to reset with an immediate nj.D after the dp+P instead (depending on how well she can crossup or dash under afterwards), since she might have the potential to do something like a 5 or 6 way mixup....
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- An Ex version of her Reverie-Souhaiter (qcb+K) and Reverie-Prier (qcf+K) have been added in the game. It’s invincible while in movement and cancelable with a special. What’s more, the special will automatically come out as an Ex version without the cost of a meter. However, supers are an exception and will not turn into an Ex.
[/quote
This change is so badass! Got me to thinking about what if other characters' EX dashes did that? Too cool? Or too much?
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I don't think any other character has an Elizabeth-style dash move. K', Duolon and Athena have moves that seem more like teleports than dashes. In my experience, they're primarily used for spacing and extending combos. Liz's is mainly for safely advancing and mix-ups.
So I don't think allowing anyone else to cancel into EX moves for free would make as much sense.
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I don't think any other character has an Elizabeth-style dash move. K', Duolon and Athena have moves that seem more like teleports than dashes. In my experience, they're primarily used for spacing and extending combos. Liz's is mainly for safely advancing and mix-ups.
So I don't think allowing anyone else to cancel into EX moves for free would make as much sense.
I didn't think of it in that way... I guess you're right about it not making sense for other characters. For K' and Duolon, I can definitely see how it would make no sense. Athena, though, seems to have potential, I believe. She can follow up her dash/teleport with a Psycho Sword or her command grab (which I believe has extended reach in EX form). The latter, I believe, can be a set up for something good.
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I don't think any other character has an Elizabeth-style dash move. K', Duolon and Athena have moves that seem more like teleports than dashes. In my experience, they're primarily used for spacing and extending combos. Liz's is mainly for safely advancing and mix-ups.
So I don't think allowing anyone else to cancel into EX moves for free would make as much sense.
I agree the range on her "teleport" (actually I call it step) is very short which limits the the use for it, I don't see nothing wrong with her having a free ex-move after it.
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I don't think any other character has an Elizabeth-style dash move. K', Duolon and Athena have moves that seem more like teleports than dashes. In my experience, they're primarily used for spacing and extending combos. Liz's is mainly for safely advancing and mix-ups.
So I don't think allowing anyone else to cancel into EX moves for free would make as much sense.
I agree the range on her "teleport" (actually I call it step) is very short which limits the the use for it, I don't see nothing wrong with her having a free ex-move after it.
Goro's command roll is the closet thing to Liz's move, in range and the fact that it cannot roll past the opponent.
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Well, since I bought the game, I practiced with betty since here I don't have the trouble to worry about losing my credit
She is really good imo, like kane say, with one meter she can do a big damaging combo, maybe she is not as strong as before, but she still could be a treat
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Elizabeth's mission combo: ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b/ ;d, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a/ ;c is really hard for me to do.
I actually finished it, but it took so many tries. Is there anything I should know to preform this consistently?
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Elizabeth's mission combo: ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b/ ;d, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a/ ;c is really hard for me to do.
I actually finished it, but it took so many tries. Is there anything I should know to preform this consistently?
i was going to ask the same since u ll find it later in another trial too
the time is tricky i noticed u have to delay f B as much as u can then i do ;dn ;df ;fd ;d ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;c like if it is a unique movement but still it required many tries for me. if anyone have hints r welcome
ok just tried it again if i do the ;dn ;df ;fd ;d at the very end of ;fd ;b ( like king ;df ;d ) i got a more % of success so my tips r delay ;fd ;b as much as u can and do the steps at the very end of the kick
oh and sorry my english if u can explain me what happened to her counter ( i know u talked in the previous pages but i didnt understand ) i tried recording and countering with A and it seems i still can hit after it. maybe did i record bad ? i putted it on guard asap after the hit to counter.
EX version i wasnt able to follow up with an hit
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In regards to her EX Counter special, I think this was a console specific change in which she can no longer follow up with a normal attack after a successfully EX Counter. You will have to go directly into A DP after a EX Counter.
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Elizabeth's mission combo: ;c, ;fd ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b/ ;d, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a/ ;c is really hard for me to do.
I actually finished it, but it took so many tries. Is there anything I should know to preform this consistently?
It's weird. If you watch the Demo Play of the combo, then it shows the grab coming out almost immediately after the dash starts, but even when I finished the combo it wasn't that fast. I have no idea how to do this consistently.
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In regards to her EX Counter special, I think this was a console specific change in which she can no longer follow up with a normal attack after a successfully EX Counter. You will have to go directly into A DP after a EX Counter.
ok thanks
and what about the A counter ? since it is strange to me that a normal counter would be better than a EX counter maybe i did a mess with te record-play stuffs in training ? cause i was able to hit with s.C after a normal A counter. maybe the training didnt record the block after the hit ?
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In regards to her EX Counter special, I think this was a console specific change in which she can no longer follow up with a normal attack after a successfully EX Counter. You will have to go directly into A DP after a EX Counter.
ok thanks
and what about the A counter ? since it is strange to me that a normal counter would be better than a EX counter maybe i did a mess with te record-play stuffs in training ? cause i was able to hit with s.C after a normal A counter. maybe the training didnt record the block after the hit ?
I think it depends on what you countered it with. I countered the first hit of Kyo's df+D and was able to follow up with a cl.C.
Other times the opponent actually had time to counter my counter if they did an attack quickly enough.
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mmm i countered a elizabeth c.D
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Just a small combo video I put together, I hope it can help newer people.
KOFXII Elisabeth Combo Video: Holy Light (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl2TS07MqQU#)
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Just a small combo video I put together, I hope it can help newer people.
KOFXII Elisabeth Combo Video: Holy Light (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl2TS07MqQU#)
It was a decent combo video. It was also very monotonous tbh :(
Also, head on over to the Meet and Greet (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0) section and introduce yo-self before u wreck yo-self, k? =P
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It was a decent combo video. It was also very monotonous tbh :(
Yeah... It was my first video on her. I've only played for 3 days. But I noticed Elisabeth has like no proper combo videos demonstrating her more damaging combos. And I was extremely lazy on her HD combo. I will make a better one eventually. Just need to learn her more.
And thanks. I guess I will. =P
Oh and do you have any tips for trial 2? Lol. Just like the person a few messages before me. I am having an hard time at pulling it off. I thought it was speed but, it never comes out, do it slower and the grab comes out, but too late. ><
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Is there any video of some decent Console Liz play? I was gonna wait until after NEC to start learning her, but since my Hwa isn't going so well at the moment, I figured I might as well try now.
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Is there any video of some decent Console Liz play? I was gonna wait until after NEC to start learning her, but since my Hwa isn't going so well at the moment, I figured I might as well try now.
Nope... If I can get used to Elisabeth more, maybe I'd upload better combos. xD God, I suck. But besides her dash combos she really has nothing interesting.
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Um, Liz is pretty much the same in console as in arcade, there are a couple of videos floating around showcasing her combos. Check the previous pages of this thread for some vids of her in action, basically everything still applies.
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I'm not worried about her combos. If I needed combos that bad, I'd just go into Trial mode, rip apart some of hers there, and call it a day.
Match video is more important to me than anything. Seeing how Liz players have adjusted and have integrated her new skills into her playstyle.
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What's up with her trial 2 combo?
The demo looks like it's canceling out of the dash. I did it once but I can't do it again and I'm not sure how I did it.
Anyone who can do this consistently, could you please explain what's going on?
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What is the advantage of putting Liz on point? I've noticed people doing this. I thought she was best coming in with some meter.
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any hints about the triple coupe de veine ? what version r they ? cause i tried many times but cant get the third i tried with canceling B whiffing first of the second but still cant get the third hit
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Liz is good with meter but she is also good at building it. Generally, she's a self-sufficient character.
As for the triple DP combo, it's explained in the first few pages. It's C DP, then A DP twice. There is a delay after the first DP that can be timed using a whiff cancel s.B, though it's not necessary. Basically, you want the 2nd DP to hit the opponent at the lowest point, right before they touch the ground.
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Liz is good with meter but she is also good at building it. Generally, she's a self-sufficient character.
As for the triple DP combo, it's explained in the first few pages. It's C DP, then A DP twice. There is a delay after the first DP that can be timed using a whiff cancel s.B, though it's not necessary. Basically, you want the 2nd DP to hit the opponent at the lowest point, right before they touch the ground.
thanks