Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Leona Heidern => Topic started by: nilcam on July 27, 2010, 02:51:48 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/leona.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Command Moves
Strike Arch - ;fd + ;b
Special Moves
Moon Slasher - (charge) ;dn, ;up + ;a / ;c *
Baltic Launcher - (charge) ;bk, ;fd + ;a / ;c *
Earring Bakuden - ;qcb ;b / ;d *
Grand Sabre Run - (charge) ;bk, ;fd + ;b / ;d *
X-Calibur - ;qcb ;a/ ;c (in air) *
Desperation Moves
V-Slasher - ;qcf ;hcb ;a / ;c (in air) *
Slash Sabre - ;qcb ;hcf ;b / ;d
Neomax
Leona Blade - ;qcb ;hcf ;a + ;c
Leona's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leona_Heidern_(XIII)).
Console changes:
* Voltec Launcher chips less guard meter
- Strike Arch (directon move) comes out faster
* Fierce V-Slasher has different angle; weak travels short, fierce goes far. EX version is the same as the arcade.
- Ground Saber has longer recovery when blocked. About even when fierce version gets blocked.
- Moon Slasher has less hitback when blocked. All of them (weak, fierce, EX) are easier to get punished than the arcade.
- EX X-Caliber comes out faster. Still can’t be comboed from a normal or direction attack.
Producer Yamamoto says: Moves such as the Ground Saber and Moon Slasher are easier to get punished so be careful. We’ve balanced her so that she can do things such as attack strings with her EX X-Calibur, or break into the opponent with her Strike Arch. Her Fierce V slasher has been buffed, and she’s a character that’s good in various occasions such as air-to-air combat or against projectiles.
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Leona
- Feels almost exactly like her KoF2k2UM version
- Charge times are short but in Hyper Drive mode the charge is not instant.. but it could be me being scrubby with inputs. Still so far I still have to buffer charge asap to Drive Cancel specials into each other in time.
Normals
- Normals are good,
- Ground normals
Standing
-far C is her f+C in 12, it pops out quite fast unlike the previous far Cs. It's a decent normal to advance forward with since it covers some of her upper hitbox.
- stD is the same as 12, it's a good anti-jump or anticipatory antiair move. On reaction it's abit too slow (got smoked by Iori's jC+D when I tried to do it on reaction).
- clD The twin knees return and they're still fast. Long active time makes it ideal for meaties.
Crouching
-crA- Abit shorter than before but it pops out fast. Middle hitbox makes it more favourable for punishing rolls and interrupting attacks that can go over lows. Max range crA won't guarantee the C slash move.. perhaps EX Slash.
-crB- Excellent poke as always. Comes out fast, has range.
-crC- Pops out really fast, very good anti crossup tool. Up close it's liable to stuff alot of things.
-crD- Low hitbox is still present. It can beat Iori's dp clean. :)
Jumping
-jA- Still a good air to ground. Not as reliable as an instant overhead compared to 2k2UM.
- jB- Solely for air to air poking.
-jC is almost Heidern's quality in the sense that it's more liable to crossup now. It can beat Kyo's and Iori's dps cleanly if spaced right above. Trades with Kula's but loses to K's.
- Straight jD is back and it snuffs out everything when it's active and it punishes rolls. Hit-confirmable into V-Slasher. Leona's sweetest mixups actually come between straight jD and crB especially against a cornered opponent.
-jD hits deep as usual and is great for jumping in. Hitconfirm into super to bring the thread.
-jC+D also hits deep, has 'good priority' and is her main tool to maintain pressure on a blocking opponent.
- Specials.. I'll get into the new stuff..
-- Ground specials--
- Moon Slasher-
Same hitbox as 12 interms of size. EX version takes a good chunk and has invincibility till very late (when her arm almost touches down) so Leona actually has a more reliable wakeup move this time. The longer range for the EX one makes it comboable from max range crA too, if desired.
C and EX versions are bad on block.
-Grand Sabre-
Running slash is back to old school style. Still good on block (faster startup too I think) but hitbox also feels bigger than before. Does not go under middle stuff unlike 98 or even 2k2. >.<
-- Air specials--
-Xcalibur-
A version is mad unsafe on block, (projectile),
C version is safe depending on how it's blocked, but it has insane priority... If blocked very early, Leona will pass right above the opponent and lands far where she can recover intime to jump away from the punish attempt.
However, if blocked at middle or low where she lands infront of her opponent it's unsafe where it can be punished by close hard normals for the former case or weak normals for the latter case.
When it's active it beats out alot of moves. When spaced right I even snuffed out K's Heat Drive very cleanly in the middle of the dash punch. It also has a record of snuffing out Kyo's dp through the upper portion of the flames. It does not hit overhead. It does have abit of startup compared to Mai's.
A version is comboable from <crC/close C/D> fB at any point of the screen. Puts them at a distance with not too much advantage.
C version can be combo'd from the combo above by the corner and it puts Leona at a much better position to mix the opponent up.
EX is great in setting up mixups (free mixup, but slow startup). Handy in blockstrings but it's a free dp if opponent is twitchy.
- Supers-
-Vslasher kills everything in the air as usual. VSlasher can be done from jA/B/D like 2k2 again!
-New super is like Rebel Spark that can actually punish more stuff as the effect of her disappearing is reflected well in animation. It's rollable which is a minus compared to what rebel spark can do. There's no EX version.
-NEOMAX- At the very least it has the same threat as a dragon punch.
I heard someone mention that f+B now connects from lights (e.g. c.A or close s.B). Is this true?
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UPDATE2: (damage included and additional notes added)
Combos:
-s.D, B Grand Sabre (charge b~f+K) (141dmg)
-d.C, Moon Slasher (charge d~u+P) (146dmg)
-s.C, f.B, X-Calibur A (air.qcb A) (202dmg)
-d.B x1~2, s.B, f.B, X-Calibur A (154dmg and 175dmg for two d.Bs) / V-Slasher DM (air qcf~hcb+P) (~290dmg)
-s.C, Slash Sabre DM (qcb~hcf+K) (292dmg)
-s.C, f.B, V-Slasher (338dmg)
-s.C, Ex Earring Bomb (qcb+BD), Slash Sabre (393dmg)
-s.C, f.B, Ex V-Slasher (423dmg)
-Vertical j.D, X-Calibur A / V-Slasher DM
-(anti-air) Moon Slasher, [DC] D Grand Sabre, Slash Sabre DM (332dmg)
-d.B, d.A, Moon Slasher, [DC] Ex Grand Sabre, B Grand Sabre (307dmb) / Slash Sabre (420dmg)
-(Corner) s.D, B Grand Sabre, [DC] Ex Earring Bomb, D Grand Sabre, V-Slasher
-(Corner) s.C, f.B, X-Calibur C, C Moon Slasher , [DC] D Grand Sabre, Moon Slasher (344dmg) / V-Slasher (456dmg)
--> Note, you can charge db~ub+P (Moon Slasher), f+D (buffers into charge b~f+D)
HD:
-d.C, HD, d.C, B Grand Sabre, [HDC] C Moon Slasher, [HDC] D Grand Sabre, Slash Sabre DM, [MC] Leona Blade NM (qcb~hcf+AC)
-s.C, HD, d.C, (A Moon Slasher, [HDC] B Grand Sabre) x5, A Moon Slasher, [HDC] D Grand Sabre, (Ex) V-Slasher
-j.D, s.D, HD, s.D, f.B, X-Calibur C, ( C Moon Slasher, {HDC] B Grand Sabre) x3, Slash Sabre, [MC] Neo Max (qcf~hcb+AC) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmW40BzD93s) (901dmg)
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Notes
-Slash Sabre dashes fullscreen.
-Ex X-Calibur doesn't seem to connect to anything ground or corner. EDIT: Read, but needs confirming, if you catch your opponent in the air with a Baltic Launcher (charge b~f+P), probably the C version, j.D, Ex X-Calibur connects (cool!)
-j.A, j.B, and j.D are all cancelable
-Mid screen, only the B version Grand Sabre connects from d.C/s.C/D
-Both hits of s.C or s.D cancels; s.C does more damage (78 vs 106)
-(Ex) Baltic Launcher doesn't seem to connect off d.C/s.C/D, even in the corner
-Easier way to buffer Vertical Jump D into V-Slasher: qcf (no button)~up+D --> (buffers DM) qcb+P
-Charging moves: charge db~ub+P works for Moon Slasher
--> ub~f+K works for Grand Sabre but ub~df+K does not work hence you need to return to db if you want to charge a Moon Slasher again
-Only Ex V-Slasher can be Max Canceled, normal version does not (Slash Sabre still can be MC'ed)
-(air) qcf~hcb+ABC does a V-Slasher while activating at the same time, great shortcut to MC into his Neo Max
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HD Combo
- (mid-screen) cr. Bx2, [HD] cr. C, b~f+B, [HDC] (d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+D]x5, qcb hcf+K
- cr. Bx2, [HD] cr. C, b~f+B, [HDC] d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+D, [HDC] d~u+AC, [HDC] b~f+Dx2, d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+D, (SC) qcb hcf+K
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Haven't seen any good footage of her at all yet.
Any opinions on her?
Heh still not very happy that they gave her sprite moe proportions instead of the supermodel ones she had before. That always differentiated her for me as a character. At least her gameplay looks better and more interesting compared to her old self.
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I heard someone mention that f+B now connects from lights (e.g. c.A or close s.B). Is this true?
I vaguely remember doing it a couple of days ago. I'll confirm tomorrow.
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hey nilcam,
just fyi all your QCB inputs are appearing as ;bk ;db ;dn instead of ;dn ;db ;bk in leona's moveset
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I heard someone mention that f+B now connects from lights (e.g. c.A or close s.B). Is this true?
Confirmed. :) Just avoid charging down back coz you'll get her [back]fwd+K instead.
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Is V-Slasher possible after Grand Saber? Thx
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Nice, I heard the same rumor when XII came out and it wasn't true then so I was skeptical this time around lol.
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Has anyone tested how many lights you can do into b+B, j.qcb+A before the x-calibur doesn't combo?
And also does j.qcb+C combo now from b+B?
Does her EX Moon Slasher have full invulnerability, if it does then that would be seriously good.
I'm also cursious to find out what her drivecancel combos look like, I hope she can combo into baltic launcher from moon slasher in the corner :3
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What are the charge times like in this game? In the technical reference video, she was able to combo from EX Moonslasher into Grand Saber, which tells me that it must be pretty fast.
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EDIT: Thanks for the write up, I moved it to the top - Kane317
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Wow, thanks for all that! If she plays like she does in 2002, does this mean that she doesn't have her low run like in 98?
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Man, her air normals being comboable into v slasher like 2k2 again is awesome (and broken which is why we love it).
Her having a better j.D is probably going to help a lot in her mixup game.
EX Moonslasher having that much invul is extremely good, will keep people scared when she has that super meter.
"A version is comboable from <crC/close C/D> fB at any point of the screen. Puts them at a distance with not too much advantage."
Doesn't it knock down anymore?
Either way I hope she can work some nice mixups with her ex version of it.
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A version does knockdown but she flips back far. So the knockdown time isn't so much + the distance means that the opponent has more room to avoid the mixup. On the other hand, the C version puts her next to the opponent fast giving her more knockdown time which is more feasible in the corner imo.
EX version is a nice one to use in blockstrings/jumpins. :) It's better not to do it standalone in mid range since it's so slow the opponent can just roll past during startup and punish from the back. Still if this makes contact in any form it's a free mixup for Leona at the very least.
Her run is not low despite the animation being similar to 98 run.
If things go well on my end which means I can play this game more regularly, I'll explore more things and do a more detailed writeup. As for now, the info above is all I can provide. I'll tidy it up abit in a few days time.
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@MrZaKaGi May I ask where are you playing this from? Japan?
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MrZakagi, the reason I wanted to know is because of cl.D, f+B, qcb+A which i think is a nice combo both in terms of damage and visually.
Something I recently though about, do you know if her qcb+C can cancel into any other special when she's in drive mode?
That could make for some cool combos like:
cl.D, B+C, run, cl.D(1hit), qcb+C, dcu+C, bcf+D, dcu+C, bcf+D~C, V-slasher.
Also what are the properties of her grand saber evade?
Really looking forward to what you can find out with her, if you get the opportunity :)
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@MrZaKaGi May I ask where are you playing this from? Japan?
Singapore but now I'm in Brunei which has nothing but Tekken 6 BR lolol.
Skatan: W/o super meter or if you want to save it clD fB qcbA is the main thing to do if you land a clD midscreen indeed.
I haven't observed about her C dive being cancellable in HD mode bu I'll keep that in mind. Also that combo should bring them to the corner so it might be possible. I'm looking for an HD combo where I can loop bfP as much as possible for fat damage. :) Grand Saber also doesn't go under fireballs as I tried to do them against Ash and Takuma's projectiles. If I recall EX one doesn't go through as well. Still to make up for that it pops out fast and appears to have a bigger horizontal hitbox.
An interesting note is that when you do Hyper Drive Cancel your character already automatically moves forward during the initial burst.
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I'm looking for an HD combo where I can loop bfP as much as possible for fat damage. :)
That would be a dream come true, I just assumed it would be too good so it wasn't possible.
But.... is it? :)
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Leona HD Combo: 901 Damage!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmW40BzD93s
EDIT: Added to the first page. -Kane317
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that's such a nasty combo hahah wow i need to practice
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so i played as leona for like 8 hours this past weekend. just wanted to say, hop D is gdlk! hop C is pretty sick as well. i love leona hahahah
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Updated some combos on the first page just for you David :)
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much appreciated! i will attempt to use them against you next time i'm at AI hahahah
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Still haven't seen many good vids of her being played at a high level. Have any of you?
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Still haven't seen many good vids of her being played at a high level. Have any of you?
No but it seems like after reading up on her on the (BBS+Mook), she has her old instant-overhead into V-Slasher tricks back again, Ex special combo extenders, plus she actually have some viable HD combos so that's fun. I'm sure someone will pick her up at AI eventually (heck I may start using her again).
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Nice. She's my main, but I only play 98/UM. I was a little worried that she would be way different in XIII, but it sounds like she's got a lot of her old tricks and such.
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It's official, I'm working on her as my third character in my team (finally after not having a solid third for ages).
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Awesome. Maybe we can see some decent footage now that someone actually plays her. Just out of curiosity, whose the third member of your team?
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So Chin, Shen Woo, Leona, eh? That sounds pretty fun to watch. Replace Shen for Clark, and you'd have my XII team.
So, random ideas/thoughts:
Can you combo ;a X-Calibur into EX X-Cal in corner?
Strike Arch is only possible from ;fd ;b, correct? In 2k2, It's also possible from ;bk ;b . (I prefer it only from ;fd, as you can then use standing/walking back ;b as an anti-hop.)
Do any of her moves count as anywhere juggles? Slash Saber seems to do a very good job of catching people out of the air... could make her into a nice Mini-Betty.
Can she land Baltic Launcher off standing ;c ;d , jumping ;c ;d or drive canceled from other special in corner?
Are these the correct properties for B.Launcher?:
-- ;a is fairly fast, appears in front of her.
-- ;c is about the same speed, but floats forwards and upwards (yay for no slow, awkward jump!)
-- ;a ;c has a wider hitbox, appears faster, + she recover faster (for possible drive meterless followups?)
Maybe she could do EX X Calibur from a backwards hop? (could do normal X-Cal from hop in XII, but there wasn't much point.)
Maybe Earring Bakuden could actually have some use in HD combos? Seemed to have fast activation (for Bakuden, anyway), could be a decent way to re-float a falling opponent.
Can she drive cancel out of the recovery frames from Bakuden? Could be a nice way to regain lost pressure w/quick Grand Sabres, or just a nice way to land/start a combo, if the Bakuden catches them low during your GS advance.
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Can she land Baltic Launcher off standing ;c ;d , jumping ;c ;d or drive canceled from other special in corner?
Unless it's off a counter (even then I'm not sure) baltic launcher wont land. It can be drive canceled but not sure if it's fast enough to land.
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Awesome. Maybe we can see some decent footage now that someone actually plays her. Just out of curiosity, whose the third member of your team?
So Chin, Shen Woo, Leona, eh? That sounds pretty fun to watch. Replace Shen for Clark, and you'd have my XII team.
^This. It's quite frustrating having to retire Maxima (not competitive enough yet) and not finding a third (even in the tourney!), been rotating between Goro, Raiden, Maxima and Clark (love them all, but just can't hang).
So, random ideas/thoughts:
Can you combo ;a X-Calibur into EX X-Cal in corner?
Strike Arch is only possible from ;fd ;b, correct? In 2k2, It's also possible from ;bk ;b . (I prefer it only from ;fd, as you can then use standing/walking back ;b as an anti-hop.)
Sadly, you can only do fwd again (I kinda liked the two-way option). Yesterday was my first day, so I have a lot to learn and mess around with before I can answer those questions, rest assured I'll keep you posted.
Do any of her moves count as anywhere juggles? Slash Saber seems to do a very good job of catching people out of the air... could make her into a nice Mini-Betty.
Yet another good question, on my to-check-list.
Are these the correct properties for B.Launcher?:
-- ;a is fairly fast, appears in front of her.
-- ;c is about the same speed, but floats forwards and upwards starts higher(yay for no slow, awkward jump!)
-- ;a ;c has a wider hitbox, appears faster, + she recover faster (for possible drive meterless followups?) starts at chest level, if they block you have a significant frame adv.
Maybe she could do EX X Calibur from a backwards hop? (could do normal X-Cal from hop in XII, but there wasn't much point.)
You can do the normal version, so I don't see why not.
Maybe Earring Bakuden could actually have some use in HD combos? Seemed to have fast activation (for Bakuden, anyway), could be a decent way to re-float a falling opponent.
Can she drive cancel out of the recovery frames from Bakuden? Could be a nice way to regain lost pressure w/quick Grand Sabres, or just a nice way to land/start a combo, if the Bakuden catches them low during your GS advance.
I wish I could answer most your questions confidently and I can't, so expect revisions later. I corrected some of the properties of the Baltic Launcher; all from the BBS and my observations.
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I read some shortcuts for her V.Jump D into V-Slasher (can't be hop) it needs testing so I'll confirm later:
(Apparently, all qcf~hcb motions can be performed like qcf~qcf~b)
- qcf x2~up+D --> (buffers the V-Slasher) b+P
I dunno which one works (maybe they all do so I'll post this)
- qcf~up+D --> hcb+P EDIT: This one seems work better than the first.
- qcf~down~up+D --> qcb+P
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Earring bomb is too slow to catch off a combo but EX earring will work.
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Good going on switching Goro, Kane. I wanted to suggest you do so after watching the latest tourney vid but forgot to. Not only did you not do too well with him but he didn't at all seem to fit in with your style of play, when considering how you play with Chin and Shen.
Looking forward to some good Leonage.
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Good going on switching Goro, Kane. I wanted to suggest you do so after watching the latest tourney vid but forgot to. Not only did you not do too well with him but he didn't at all seem to fit in with your style of play, when considering how you play with Chin and Shen.
Looking forward to some good Leonage.
Heh, hence struggling to find my third. I know my Goro can't quite seem to find my groove with him yet, but I will return to him as I always used and liked him (I was better with old school Clark, but Clark has departed farther than Goro so to speak), but not like as my main team.
I'm pretty sure Leona is going to look "awkward" with my style too, but I do better with her than the other characters and I have more potential with her IMO.
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Is V-Slasher possible after Grand Saber? Thx
If they land on your Grand Sabre from the air and it's in the corner, yes (you just have to shortcut the V-Slasher coz they're pretty low to the ground).
Has anyone tested how many lights you can do into b+B, j.qcb+A before the x-calibur doesn't combo?
And also does j.qcb+C combo now from b+B?
Does her EX Moon Slasher have full invulnerability, if it does then that would be seriously good.
I'm also cursious to find out what her drivecancel combos look like, I hope she can combo into baltic launcher from moon slasher in the corner :3
You can do a max of 3 light hits: d.B x2, s.B, before the f.B gets too far to connect. The C version X-Calibur doesn't combo from f.B but it leaves you with a frame advantage or neutral. Ex Moon Slasher has full invincibility.
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My result findings from yesterday; I'll post it on the first page instead.
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Good info updates, Kane, thanks! That all sounds rather promising... I really like the fact she has some new tricks, some proven, some still just potential.
Keep up the good work, really looking forward to videos of your discoveries with her!
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Thanks for the info. I'm guessing G Saber(ground hit) still = free V Slasher in the corner at least
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Thanks for the info. I'm guessing G Saber(ground hit) still = free V Slasher in the corner at least
If they land on your Grand Sabre from the air and it's in the corner, yes (you just have to shortcut the V-Slasher coz they're pretty low to the ground).
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i wanted to know if you could AA with moon slasher... then drive cancel into baltic launcher... i know grand sabre works... and can u connect a DM after it for free? like...
d~u.P > b~f.C > Slash Sabre? maybe it needs to be b~f.AC...?
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Does she have an airthrow? If so can it be done with both C and D? Also can it be done with stick in db position?
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Does she have an airthrow? If so can it be done with both C and D? Also can it be done with stick in db position?
Nope :(
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If you're going to cancel into V-Slasher from A or B, do they have to be vertical jumps like D, or can you cancel them off of a hop?
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If you're going to cancel into V-Slasher from A or B, do they have to be vertical jumps like D, or can you cancel them off of a hop?
Only vertical jump D works; you have to diagonally hyperhop with j.A and hit on the way up. I don't think j.D or j.B can be used as instant overheads.
For the j.A, I just do the old shortcut: qcf~uf+A~hcb+P
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Only vertical jump D works; you have to diagonally hyperhop with j.A and hit on the way up. I don't think j.D or j.B can be used as instant overheads.
Ah ok. I got confused for a second and thought that the instant overhead cancel no longer worked and that you could only cancel into V-Slasher from a vertical D haha.
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Thanks for the info. I'm guessing G Saber(ground hit) still = free V Slasher in the corner at least
If they land on your Grand Sabre from the air and it's in the corner, yes (you just have to shortcut the V-Slasher coz they're pretty low to the ground).
Not even....damn :(
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Thanks for the info. I'm guessing G Saber(ground hit) still = free V Slasher in the corner at least
If they land on your Grand Sabre from the air and it's in the corner, yes (you just have to shortcut the V-Slasher coz they're pretty low to the ground).
Not even....damn :(
Now that I think about it, it should work without being a juggle. I'll test it out.
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Snipped. To the front page as usual! (deleted anything that's been posted already) Thanks. -Kane317
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VynVJVTXWvY#t=02m59
HD and 2 bars for the ex dm = 100% ?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VynVJVTXWvY#t=02m59
HD and 2 bars for the ex dm = 100% ?
No, it's HD, four EX specials and one normal DM = 100%. So five bars. I'm sure more than half the cast should be able to pull off a 100% with five bars and HD.
Still, the HD combo did really good damage.
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thanks for the explanation, i'm a poor european without the arcade so didn't notice the 4 ex special, i thought that was the normal one :s
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No problem. It was hard to catch them all.
One of my very tiny criticisms of XIII's visuals are the effect for EX moves. Blue gas doesn't look very cool, or very impressive, and (especially when the character's specials are blue in color) it can be hard to notice.
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When it comes to winning portraits!
Leona's Boobs > Mai's Boobs!
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When it comes to winning portraits!
Leona's Boobs > Mai's Boobs!
I must verify the truth behind this :)
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It's the truth, look at how tight her tanktop is :D
http://game.snkplaymore.co.jp/official/kof-xiii/blog/archives/2010/06/10/
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^^^^^
Yep, that's the one, I have converted lol!
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a few questions:
- does KOFXIII still have that counterhit staggering property that was in KOFXII? i remember leona's f+C (now far C) was great because of its range, and if it counterhit, you could just run up and do whatever you wanted since the stagger lasted so long.
- does anyone know the property difference between the B and D versions of the slash sabre DM? startup? recovery? distance?
- when being reset in the air, using elizabeth as an example, after a j.C in a corner combo but right before the DM juggle, can you v-slasher out? or does the state not allow any actions from the recovering player? it sounds like a general system question, but leona's v-slasher is the only air DM i could think of that could possibly even get you out of a situation like that.
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a few questions:
- does KOFXIII still have that counterhit staggering property that was in KOFXII? i remember leona's f+C (now far C) was great because of its range, and if it counterhit, you could just run up and do whatever you wanted since the stagger lasted so long.
Nope, it's a damn shame too coz the staggers were fun as hell.
- does anyone know the property difference between the B and D versions of the slash sabre DM? startup? recovery? distance?
Good question, I dunno. They seem the same but I've never really tested it out.
- when being reset in the air, using elizabeth as an example, after a j.C in a corner combo but right before the DM juggle, can you v-slasher out? or does the state not allow any actions from the recovering player? it sounds like a general system question, but leona's v-slasher is the only air DM i could think of that could possibly even get you out of a situation like that.
Yet another very good question, I've never tried. I'll add that to my to-do list.
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dude those are supposed to be the first things you check out when playing a fighter, you gotta know the system man.
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dude those are supposed to be the first things you check out when playing a fighter, you gotta know the system man.
not sure if you were referring to my questions but...
A) would it surprise you that maybe some people don't have a lot of experience with XIII? i played it for the first time a week ago.
B) sure, the first two i could have probably tested myself, but the last question is really situational (e.g. might only be applicable to leona) and is a really nitpicky thing about the system. it's something that most people wouldn't know offhand and would require testing. it would be helpful to know the answer for that matchup in case it ever happened (even though i think elizabeth could probably omit the reset and DM juggle you anyway).
C) in most of the character threads so far, most of the notes regarding movelists are still lacking details and properties. this is fine, considering the game is still fairly new and people are still testing stuff, but i figure that this is the point of these character threads: to compile notes and information about the characters for those who want to learn new/more characters but don't really know much. sure, movelists are there, but we all know it takes more than moveset memorization to successfully play a character. if thats all we needed, the forums would be unnecessary and we'd just download the PDF movelist or look at the master guide.
case in point, and i didn't mean to rant so much in a character thread, this is a forum. questions are meant to be asked. this community is fairly new, and being constructive by gathering information for people who come to the boards is rather helpful compared to making arbitrary remarks. at the very least, if you know the system, you should oblige us with answers.
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C) in most of the character threads so far, most of the notes regarding movelists are still lacking details and properties. this is fine, considering the game is still fairly new and people are still testing stuff, but i figure that this is the point of these character threads: to compile notes and information about the characters for those who want to learn new/more characters but don't really know much. sure, movelists are there, but we all know it takes more than moveset memorization to successfully play a character. if thats all we needed, the forums would be unnecessary and we'd just download the PDF movelist or look at the master guide.
case in point, and i didn't mean to rant so much in a character thread, this is a forum. questions are meant to be asked. this community is fairly new, and being constructive by gathering information for people who come to the boards is rather helpful compared to making arbitrary remarks. at the very least, if you know the system, you should oblige us with answers.
PLUS A MILLION!!! sometimes i think ppl are just scared to teach others the game. (don't hate me...)
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Not sure if it was known before but V Slasher is comboable after a C Baltic Launcher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW6w80tHZIA
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Not sure if it was known before but V Slasher is comboable after a C Baltic Launcher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW6w80tHZIA
Yup. You can also do Slash Sabre (her new DM) too.
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kinda sorta glitch report:
i was playing as leona vs raiden. raiden does shoulder tackle (not sure which version, but not EX). i land a counter-hit with ;a vers moon slasher (COUNTER appeared on screen) and we both get knocked to opposite ends of the screen with no damage dealt to either character.
not gamebreaking or whatever, but i thought it was interesting. if somebody already marked this down somewhere, sue me. jk.
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kinda sorta glitch report:
i was playing as leona vs raiden. raiden does shoulder tackle (not sure which version, but not EX). i land a counter-hit with ;a vers moon slasher (COUNTER appeared on screen) and we both get knocked to opposite ends of the screen with no damage dealt to either character.
not gamebreaking or whatever, but i thought it was interesting. if somebody already marked this down somewhere, sue me. jk.
That's not a glitch, see the youtube the official Raiden technical reference, you'll see Raiden doing it with his dp+P. I think it's any time that moves have even priorities, both parties get knocked away.
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kinda sorta glitch report:
i was playing as leona vs raiden. raiden does shoulder tackle (not sure which version, but not EX). i land a counter-hit with ;a vers moon slasher (COUNTER appeared on screen) and we both get knocked to opposite ends of the screen with no damage dealt to either character.
not gamebreaking or whatever, but i thought it was interesting. if somebody already marked this down somewhere, sue me. jk.
That's not a glitch, see the youtube the official Raiden technical reference, you'll see Raiden doing it with his dp+P. I think it's any time that moves have even priorities, both parties get knocked away.
ahh good to know. thanks kane.
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http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12386619
Around 2:39 you see her tearing it up with an HD combo.
1 stock, HD did around 70%!
EDIT: Again at the 10:00 ish marker with another variation of her HD (no wonder her Yuri didn't use any cancels). Last one at 17:41.
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:o impressive, nice tool by the way and she can "abuse" of her c.B i see
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Average level gameplay but good video for Leona, tearin' it up! (http://www.ace-net1.com/motoyawata/acemkof4.mp4) (apologize in advance as it's in mp4 format)
Apparently right after a V-Slasher in the corner, d.B will catch the opponent recovery rolling and it's basically a free combo. Nice!
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nice video, I thought that was a above average Leona, good pressuring with mix ups. At least better than my Leona haha.
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nice video, I thought that was a above average Leona, good pressuring with mix ups. At least better than my Leona haha.
No, no, Leona good. The rest, average.
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Ooh this is good indeed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLryGm0HfM#t=0m25)
Did NOT know you could do that.
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here i come with my stupid questions :)
first of all if i keep charge back just after the HD dash does the charge interrupt the dash or not ?
and im pretty curious about the timing of the charge watching the video it seems so fast
last question i read u can DC the moon slasher keepin charge ub and then f (but df doesnt work if u want to cancel in a sabre which would have been good to keep the charge down for the next moon slasher) so basically u have to do d,ub C(DC), f B and as soon as u can again the charge down ? it seems impossible if it doesnt let u do the sabre with down forward it is too fast need some answers about the timing :)
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here i come with my stupid questions :)
first of all if i keep charge back just after the HD dash does the charge interrupt the dash or not ?
No the auto-dash does not interrupt the charging.
and im pretty curious about the timing of the charge watching the video it seems so fast
last question i read u can DC the moon slasher keepin charge ub and then f (but df doesnt work if u want to cancel in a sabre which would have been good to keep the charge down for the next moon slasher) so basically u have to do d,ub C(DC), f B and as soon as u can again the charge down ? it seems impossible if it doesnt let u do the sabre with down forward it is too fast need some answers about the timing :)
Just like you said: charge db~u.P --> (pretty immediate) f+P then charge db immediately and repeat.
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here i come with my stupid questions :)
first of all if i keep charge back just after the HD dash does the charge interrupt the dash or not ?
No the auto-dash does not interrupt the charging.
and im pretty curious about the timing of the charge watching the video it seems so fast
last question i read u can DC the moon slasher keepin charge ub and then f (but df doesnt work if u want to cancel in a sabre which would have been good to keep the charge down for the next moon slasher) so basically u have to do d,ub C(DC), f B and as soon as u can again the charge down ? it seems impossible if it doesnt let u do the sabre with down forward it is too fast need some answers about the timing :)
Just like you said: charge db~u.P --> (pretty immediate) f+P then charge db immediately and repeat.
thanks for the answer kane ... wow u answer fast :) i already like this site and all of uuuuuuuuuu
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i already like this site
:cool: (crosslinking ftw <3)
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ehi i dont know if i saw it bad but does it combo ? c.B , nj D , DM ? and in the case it would be ;dn ;b ;df ;fd , ;up , ;dn ;db ;bk ;c ?
and is it possible to activate HD after f.B or after c.B , B , HD , f.B or none of those is possible ?
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ehi i dont know if i saw it bad but does it combo ? c.B , nj D , DM ? and in the case it would be ;dn ;b ;df ;fd , ;up , ;dn ;db ;bk ;c ?
and is it possible to activate HD after f.B or after c.B , B , HD , f.B or none of those is possible ?
There are a couple shortcuts: you can do d.B, qcf x2, up+D, back C.
Or I find easier:d.B, qcf, up+D, hcb C (so your one was close).
I'm pretty sure Leona's command move f.B does NOT activate because she is in the air (although air normals do) much like Chin's df.B or df.D which you can't BC off of either. We'll double check for you (Ash's b.B seems to be an exception).
d.B, d.BC (time it like a chain), into whatever works.
Alternatively: d.b x2, cancel into d~u+ABC... works as well.
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ehi i dont know if i saw it bad but does it combo ? c.B , nj D , DM ? and in the case it would be ;dn ;b ;df ;fd , ;up , ;dn ;db ;bk ;c ?
and is it possible to activate HD after f.B or after c.B , B , HD , f.B or none of those is possible ?
There are a couple shortcuts: you can do d.B, qcf x2, up+D, back C.
Or I find easier:d.B, qcf, up+D, hcb C (so your one was close).
I'm pretty sure Leona's command move f.B does NOT activate because she is in the air (although air normals do) much like Chin's df.B or df.D which you can't BC off of either. We'll double check for you (Ash's b.B seems to be an exception).
d.B, d.BC (time it like a chain), into whatever works.
Alternatively: d.b x2, cancel into d~u+ABC... works as well.
stupid capcom's games made me forget it is an half circle back not just a quarter but that was what i meant glad to know i was right ... curious thing is that im pretty sure i've watched it in a video and it combos (3 hit of course) which is pretty powerful to me ... mmm no errata corrige i just rewatched and it doesnt combo !!
thanks about the answers about HD activation
so in ur last doin d,u ABC u can use the moonslasher doin DC and sabre (just it needs to be d,ub ABC) PLUS the HD activation ( sorry if i didnt use the right terms ehehe) thats pretty cool ... but what it ll be a normal moonshlasher or EX ?
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thanks about the answers about HD activation
so in ur last doin d,u ABC u can use the moonslasher doin DC and sabre (just it needs to be d,ub ABC) PLUS the HD activation ( sorry if i didnt use the right terms ehehe) thats pretty cool ... but what it ll be a normal moonshlasher or EX ?
Without the activation (BC), the (Ex) MoonSlasher won't cancel off the non-cancelable d.B. The HD activation makes all normals cancelable, hope that answers your question.
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thanks about the answers about HD activation
so in ur last doin d,u ABC u can use the moonslasher doin DC and sabre (just it needs to be d,ub ABC) PLUS the HD activation ( sorry if i didnt use the right terms ehehe) thats pretty cool ... but what it ll be a normal moonshlasher or EX ?
Without the activation (BC), the (Ex) MoonSlasher won't cancel off the non-cancelable d.B. The HD activation makes all normals cancelable, hope that answers your question.
oh d.B is not cancellable ok now its clear ! thanks kane ;)
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oh d.B is not cancellable ok now its clear ! thanks kane ;)
I want to add however, that you can do: d.B x2, d.A (whiffs), cancel into Moon Slasher. This only works coz Moon Slasher has good horizontal range and d.A cancels real fast.
More Leona awesomeness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaQPmPr9RU#t=3m46).
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oh d.B is not cancellable ok now its clear ! thanks kane ;)
I want to add however, that you can do: d.B x2, d.A (whiffs), cancel into Moon Slasher. This only works coz Moon Slasher has good horizontal range and d.A cancels real fast.
More Leona awesomeness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaQPmPr9RU#t=3m46).
well this just open up more chance to leona.
by the way im just too curious about the timing of the moon slasher canceled in saber, it seems the time of charge is almost like the ash's sans coulotte. well maybe a lil more of course since he has no time of charge
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i always had a hard time with leona's drive cancels. i was under the impression that you really had to buffer full charges. kane would probably know better than i would though lol
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I hit an air to air D and followed up with a V-Slasher (don't recall if it was ex or not). I think it may have some anywhere juggle properties if anyone wants to experiment with it.
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I hit an air to air D and followed up with a V-Slasher (don't recall if it was ex or not). I think it may have some anywhere juggle properties if anyone wants to experiment with it.
Most likely your j.D countered the opponent; remember anytime you get the counter message you get a free hit.
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actually I'm pretty sure there wasn't a counter message. But this happened i lil while back so my memory could just be foggy.
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i always had a hard time with leona's drive cancels. i was under the impression that you really had to buffer full charges. kane would probably know better than i would though lol
Yes you have to do full charges. Need to do db~du+P -> f+K - this way you don't lose the back charge.
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Kane, I tried out the whole V-slasher thing in training mode and you were completely right about it, I must have just missed the counter message. Not that Leona needs an anywhere juggle, just would've been nice if she had it. Then again I didn't try all her ex moves (I'm trying to get her HD combo down) so I'm still not 100% sure that she doesn't. I'm just not keeping my hopes up for one to surface with her.
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i always had a hard time with leona's drive cancels. i was under the impression that you really had to buffer full charges. kane would probably know better than i would though lol
Yes you have to do full charges. Need to do db~du+P -> f+K - this way you don't lose the back charge.
did you mean db~uf+P? if you did, it makes sense now. totally forgot about command overlap on charge moves :(
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i always had a hard time with leona's drive cancels. i was under the impression that you really had to buffer full charges. kane would probably know better than i would though lol
Yes you have to do full charges. Need to do db~du+P -> f+K - this way you don't lose the back charge.
did you mean db~uf+P? if you did, it makes sense now. totally forgot about command overlap on charge moves :(
I think he meant, c.db~ub+P~f+K. I conditioned my MoonSlashers to end in ub+P now, even if I'm not canceling. Don't do uf+P coz you get that lame overlap where it does MoonSlasher [DC], Baltic Launcher (c.b~f+P).
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i always had a hard time with leona's drive cancels. i was under the impression that you really had to buffer full charges. kane would probably know better than i would though lol
Yes you have to do full charges. Need to do db~du+P -> f+K - this way you don't lose the back charge.
oh right
did you mean db~uf+P? if you did, it makes sense now. totally forgot about command overlap on charge moves :(
I think he meant, c.db~ub+P~f+K. I conditioned my MoonSlashers to end in ub+P now, even if I'm not canceling. Don't do uf+P coz you get that lame overlap where it does MoonSlasher [DC], Baltic Launcher (c.b~f+P).
ahh ub! i think im losing my mind...
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The tricky part isn't the shortcut itself if you ask me. Ash's DC links seem fine to me; it's the Moon Slasher itself that has a strange cancel window much like Heidern '02 UM.
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i always had a hard time with leona's drive cancels. i was under the impression that you really had to buffer full charges. kane would probably know better than i would though lol
Oh yeah oops, yeah I meant db, ub+P, f+K
Yes you have to do full charges. Need to do db~du+P -> f+K - this way you don't lose the back charge.
did you mean db~uf+P? if you did, it makes sense now. totally forgot about command overlap on charge moves :(
I think he meant, c.db~ub+P~f+K. I conditioned my MoonSlashers to end in ub+P now, even if I'm not canceling. Don't do uf+P coz you get that lame overlap where it does MoonSlasher [DC], Baltic Launcher (c.b~f+P).
Oh yeah oops, yeah I meant db, ub+P, f+K
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It's been a while but what can Leona do against Raiden?
Yeah if I played the game regularly over the past months I would have put some info up myself lol.
I can do Leona's HD combo in the corner now and have 1 burning question.
;ub ;uf can execute the grand saber.
but is
;db ;df really possible? Kept on trying that to see if there are any potential variants but the special doesn't pop out. Otherwise it might actually be good midscreen HD combo material.
Whats her mid screen HD combo then.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrQG1pBFCsM&feature=player_embedded
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Sorry to double post.
I can do Leona's HD combo in the corner now and have 1 burning question.
;ub ;uf can execute the grand saber.
but is
;db ;df really possible? Kept on trying that to see if there are any potential variants but the special doesn't pop out. Otherwise it might actually be good midscreen HD combo material.
Whats her mid screen HD combo then.
Sorry for the late reply. I'll have to dig up some old KCE videos of her doing her midscreen HD (it might very well be in this thread), but to answer your question you cannot perform her Grand Sabre (c.b~f+K) cancels by ending it in df, only forward works. EDIT: Found it in this thread, here's one and you can scan the thread for the rest. I'm not entirely sure which strength they use but it's just a combination of her Moon Slasher and her Grand Sabre: http://youtu.be/IbaQPmPr9RU?t=3m46s (http://youtu.be/IbaQPmPr9RU?t=3m46s)
As for Raiden, the universal answer is to rush him down hard the first 10 seconds or so and then you just have to be very careful. Use those instant-overhead vertical D mixups and try to get him cornered. If you're hyperjumping with him in the corner he cannot dropkick you. Also, if you know he's going to GCCD into dropkick make sure you make your jump attacks super deep so the GCCD will fail and he'll waste his charge, good luck =)
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Personally, I think Leona is the hidden high-tier in XIII. There's more of an input-barrier to using her effectively, but once mastered, she can hang with Andy and Kyo.
The biggest fault I can find with her is that she doesn't build meter very quickly, and she definitely needs it to keep her options open. Also, her movelist is pretty unconventional compared to most of the XIII cast, which makes her a tough match-up for some characters.
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Great punish for just a counter hit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw1nBnJtN9M#t=6m55). I agree, I think Leona has a lot of potential to be explored as well.
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Also from a CD. Leona is just too cool.
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You can never get sick of her HD combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecoQy7my6UA#t=7m35).
I figured I'm going to compile a bunch of videos like I have in Duo Lon's thread eventually...
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You know, part of me wants to go for one KOF without having Leona on my main team, but she's always just so fun and solid...not to mention being one of the most stylish female characters in any fighting game (and I really need to spend some time in training mode before I can do anything real with Duo Lon *laughs*)
Anyway, I'm looking to check my understanding about something (more of a general system question, but it relates specifically to Leona, so I thought it fit better here). If I do cr.B, cr.B, (or cr.B, cr.B, cr.A), then react to it being blocked with a slightly delayed [;bk]~ ;fd+B and try to buffer in a drive cancel to [;dn]~ ;up+C, the [;dn]~ ;up+C will only come out if the [;bk]~ ;fd+B hits, right? The intention is to make a staggered block string to bait the other player into not blocking, and since [;bk]~ ;fd+K seems to be safe on block and (I think) drive cancels only work on hit, it should leave you in a good position afterwards either way.
Her HD stuff looks good, so I'm not sure how useful that would be compared to doing <block string>, delayed cl.D (hit confirm for HD), <big damage>, but at least until I can work on the execution for HD combos, it would be something to do with drive gauge.
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man i really like how Leona looks in XIII... i might end up putting her on my team to have an all out Ikari team... at the above post... i think you'll be better off with hit confirming into Moon Slasher... then drive cancel that into Grand Saber... cause you can connect a Grand Rafale after that... if you want to use Drive meter... or you are better off staying with cr.B, s.B, f.B... it's safe on block and you can hit confirm it into X caliber or V Slasher...
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I figured I'm going to compile a bunch of videos like I have in Duo Lon's thread eventually...
Trying to lend a hand...I think I got all of the video links posted in this thread:
5/22 KCE vs U-Rushia:
Leona vs Kula/Yuri (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecoQy7my6UA#t=6m49) (players: Yanagi vs name I can't read)
Leona vs K'/Kyo/Leona (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecoQy7my6UA#t=9m32) (players: Animesomurie vs name I can't read)
4/24 KOF XIII Carnival (player 1 is Animesomurie, can't read player 2's name):
Leona vs K'/Leona (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw1nBnJtN9M#t=6m14)
Japanese event, not sure about more info for this video
Leona vs Kensou/Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaQPmPr9RU#t=2m37)
Leona vs Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaQPmPr9RU#t=6m52)
Leona vs Ash/King (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaQPmPr9RU#t=9m44)
Leona vs Kula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaQPmPr9RU#t=17m13)
Leona vs Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaQPmPr9RU#t=21m01)
(following links are using the MMCafe nicovideo redirector...don't know how to do timestamps with that, so I noted the times in text)
Leona vs Benimaru/Shen/Iori (@1:43) (http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12386619)
Leona vs Shen (@6:15) (http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12386619)
Leona vs Shen/Iori (@9:55) (http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12386619)
Leona vs K'/Kim/Iori (@12:50) (http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12386619)
Leona vs K'/Hwa/Iori (@16:35) (http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12386619)
Leona vs Iori (@22:00) (http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12386619)
Youssef vs Frionel (not sure which is which)
Leona vs Yuri (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW6w80tHZIA#t=0m10)
Training mode videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLryGm0HfM#t=0m25 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLryGm0HfM#t=0m25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrQG1pBFCsM&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrQG1pBFCsM&feature=player_embedded)
I'll try to remember to look through Game A-cho's youtube channel when I get a chance to see if they have any Leona footage in their XIII videos. EDIT: Would you believe that in all of their videos, not once did I see Leona get played? :(
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Doublepost to link some more videos from KCE vs U-Rushia matches:
Leona vs K'/Elizabeth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTKIxSlkJf8#t=1m47) (players: Marichan vs Taiyaki)
Leona vs King/Kula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTKIxSlkJf8#t=8m57) (players: Marichan vs Myuu)
Leona vs Ash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHo90ahgGEk#t=2m43) (players: Marichan vs name I can't read)
Leona vs Kyo/Kula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHo90ahgGEk#t=6m41) (players: Marichan vs name I can't read)
Leona vs Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHo90ahgGEk#t=12m12) (players: Haregaro~ vs name I can't read)
Leona vs Elizabeth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHo90ahgGEk#t=16m10) (players: Ohiki vs name I can't read)
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hyperdrive combos that i found to have the most damage. combo starts with j.C d.C hd d.C. all mid screen combos. sorry if any of these have already been posted before.
1meter
moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x4, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D x2, slash sabre (850/843dmg)
moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x5, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D, vslasher (830dmg)
2meters
ex moon slasher hdc grand sabre B, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x3, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D x2, slash sabre (918/911dmg)
ex moon slasher hdc grand sabre B, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x4, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D, vslasher (898dmg)
-no ex moon slasher and end with ex vslasher (890dmg)
3meters
ex moon slasher hdc grand sabre B x2, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x2, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D x2, slash sabre (978/971dmg)
ex moon slasher hdc grand sabre B x2, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x3, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D, vslasher (958dmg)
-one ex moon slasher and end with ex vslasher (958dmg)
moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x4, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D hdc neomax (896dmg)
4meters
ex moon slasher hdc grand sabre B x2, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre B x3, moon slasher A hdc grand sabre D, ex vslasher (1018)
5meters
(see 4 meter combo)
i noticed that although A and C ver moon slasher do the same damage by itself, the damage scaling for C ver is worse during a combo. it seems also that both ver of moon slasher do less damage if the hit lands close to the top rather than close to the ground (if that made any sense). i close with grand sabre D rather than B prior to a dm because it lifts up the opponent higher which makes it easier to do a dm. It also gives more time to cancel to neomax.
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Training mode videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLryGm0HfM#t=0m25 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gLryGm0HfM#t=0m25)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrQG1pBFCsM&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrQG1pBFCsM&feature=player_embedded)
I'll try to remember to look through Game A-cho's youtube channel when I get a chance to see if they have any Leona footage in their XIII videos. EDIT: Would you believe that in all of their videos, not once did I see Leona get played? :(
the full screen combos from the 2nd link looks like it does more damage with 3 and 4 meters although it looks like he started off with ex moon slasher to ex grand sabre which would make it a 4 and 5 meter combo. i'll try and duplicate the combos tomorrow.
edit: the full screen combos did start off with ex moon slasher to ex grand sabre.
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it seems also that both ver of moon slasher does less damage if the hit lands close to the top rather than close to the ground (if that made any sense). i close with grand sabre D rather than B prior to vslasher because it lifts up the opponent higher which makes it easier to do vslasher. It also gives more time to cancel to neomax.
Yeah, A and C moon slasher have two hitboxes, one for 80 damage close to Leona, one for 60 damage farther away. EX version seems to just hit for 160 at any range. Nice point about D grand saber juggling higher.
Also, thanks for those damage values :) . Damn, Leona hits like Shen Woo in HD.
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moves inspired by Gordan Bombay, he should be in the win quotes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WZ0uRJOatQ
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LMAO... hahaha... Leona was in the audience... She's like OH SHIT, i'm copying that for sure...
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Leona is definitely going to be my 2nd or 3rd in XIII. Not sure who my other two mains will be but I'd like to stay away from the K'/Kula/Elizabeth/Shen trend that seems to be going on atm.
Don't have anything contructive to add, other than she's looking very good in XIII.
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From ReXXXSoprano, footage of a Japanese tournament:
Leona vs Elizabeth, Kula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFG2AoArOw4#t=2m57)
Leona vs Raiden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFG2AoArOw4#t=7m55)
Leona vs Kula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFG2AoArOw4#t=20m00)
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From ReXXXSoprano, footage of a Japanese tournament:
Leona vs Elizabeth, Kula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFG2AoArOw4#t=2m57)
Leona vs Raiden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFG2AoArOw4#t=7m55)
Leona vs Kula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFG2AoArOw4#t=20m00)
Lol, I'm not so sure they're the best matches to highlight Leona's capabilities. 2 out of your 3 links she loses in those rounds, loses badly too.
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moves inspired by Gordan Bombay, he should be in the win quotes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WZ0uRJOatQ
Either that, or she should have a Mighty Duck jersey alt.
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Lol, I'm not so sure they're the best matches to highlight Leona's capabilities. 2 out of your 3 links she loses in those rounds, loses badly too.
Learning what not to do is as important as learning what to do ;).
The Raiden match shows too much passiveness in general (especially against someone double-charging dropkicks), poor spacing/timing that resulted in running into a lot of C's, and a failed roll punish at the end.
The 2nd Kula match actually showed some good stuff and the Leona player should've won it easily but for too much missed execution (failed combo after cross-up j.C, failed V-slasher after instant overhead nj.D).
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Realized I never finished up the Leona wiki, so I added more stuff today. Filled in the Gameplay Overview section and added some Gameplay Notes. Everything is based on my experience (which isn't saying much), so if anyone sees something wrong with it or has something useful to add, just let me know and I'll gladly make edits.
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A few comments...unfortunately, they are based mostly on experience with Leona in previous years, but I've played her some in XIII as well, so I have a little experience backing up most of this (unless stated otherwise):
For antiair normals, I find s.A, cr.A, and cr.B are also useful, along with s.D (agree that cr.C is awkward since the timing to antiair with it is pretty weird, especially for players who haven't used Leona in the past).
Her air dominance is slightly weaker from past versions since she lacks an airthrow now.
Kind of disagree that her specials are terrible outside of combos. They aren't the greatest, but they definitely have their uses. I'm not sure if any other character has 3 special moves (4 with EX) that are frame advantage on block (although that's kind of a misleading statement since those moves are relatively slow on start up). I like how you said it in the overall cons, "highly situational".
Baltic Launcher is useful at mid to somewhat far range (less so against someone with far-reaching low attacks like Iori's cr.D or DL's f+B), where it's a good obstacle to use against overly-aggressive foes (especially now that the C version isn't total crap). It's also useful in oki (free chip and frame advantage on block, and most things that aren't blocking should get blown up for a free juggle...just be careful if they have meter).
EX X-calibur is useful in the same way as Mature's or Terry's EX projectiles, trading meter to get a beefy frame advantage. Even regular X-calibur has some use if your opponent is really twitchy to antiair, though you have better ways of baiting and punishing that.
I do agree that Grand Saber is mostly combo material since it's vulnerable to getting hit out of the start up, although unless it's been changed a lot from past years (haven't played with her enough yet to judge), you can work it into your overall offensive pressure...not something you can fire out as freely as, say, Elizabeth's dp+A, but used well, it is a calculated risk that keeps you in their face with frame advantage (on block) or gives you a free juggle into potentially more pain (on hit).
Disagree with Moonslasher being useful on wake-up. Only EX version really is. The normal versions should get stuffed almost every time by competent opponents.
Personally, I think Leona really needs meter to be effective, so I'd never place her first. That might just be habit from so many years of drawing V's and wishing she had something like EX Moonslasher, though *laughs* .
Also, it might be worth mentioning that charge times are only about 1 second in KOF (since most games seem to use closer to 2 seconds).
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Disagree with Moonslasher being useful on wake-up. Only EX version really is.
lol, was Moon Slasher ever considered a good reversal?
Personally, I think Leona really needs meter to be effective, so I'd never place her first. That might just be habit from so many years of drawing V's and wishing she had something like EX Moonslasher, though *laughs* .
Good Advice here.
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I wouldn't mention her having bad zoning since she mainly a rush down character.
Personally, I think Leona really needs meter to be effective, so I'd never place her first. That might just be habit from so many years of drawing V's and wishing she had something like EX Moonslasher, though *laughs* .
This, In every game (Mainly 98 and 2002) she always was a good placed 2nd or as an anchor. Having meter for V-Slasher = Excellent Air to Air/Punish almost anything
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First off, thanks for your input guys. I'll note some things down and add to the wiki. I should say though, I find it funny that people usually like to point out things about a character after someone has already said something. It's apparent you guys have constructive things to say, yet there hasn't been much discussion in this thread lately. Go figure.
For antiair normals, I find s.A, cr.A, and cr.B are also useful, along with s.D (agree that cr.C is awkward since the timing to antiair with it is pretty weird, especially for players who haven't used Leona in the past).
s.A for hops, sure, but cr.A and cr.B are anti-air normals?
Her air dominance is slightly weaker from past versions since she lacks an airthrow now.
I do miss the air throw, but her j.B and j.D are seriously good still. j.B especially. In my experience, worst case scenario, it'll get you a trade.
It's also useful in oki (free chip and frame advantage on block, and most things that aren't blocking should get blown up for a free juggle...just be careful if they have meter).
This is very, very dangerous. Like you said, the opponent having meter can make things go horribly wrong. I feel like meter builds quite fast in XIII, so your opponent will generally have a least 1 stock most of the time unless they've been blowing it during the rounds. Coupled with the properties EX moves generally have, you're looking to get hurt real bad.
EX X-calibur is useful in the same way as Mature's or Terry's EX projectiles, trading meter to get a beefy frame advantage. Even regular X-calibur has some use if your opponent is really twitchy to antiair, though you have better ways of baiting and punishing that.
I really honestly wanted to find some use in EX X-calibur, but I have yet to find one. I've tried setups on oki (even in the corner), but, honestly, the recovery on the jump back is just too long. If she dropped down like King after EX Venom Strike, then sure, but as is it feels like a waste of meter, IMO.
do agree that Grand Saber is mostly combo material since it's vulnerable to getting hit out of the start up, although unless it's been changed a lot from past years (haven't played with her enough yet to judge), you can work it into your overall offensive pressure...not something you can fire out as freely as, say, Elizabeth's dp+A, but used well, it is a calculated risk that keeps you in their face with frame advantage (on block) or gives you a free juggle into potentially more pain (on hit).
I used to do it during blockstrings, but learned not to. Leona doesn't really have any good blockstring enders. What that means is after your general blockstring of normals, the opponent knows you have limited options to keep the pressure on. Since all of Leona's moves suffer from noticeable startup, the opponent will just mash you out of whatever you thought would be a good idea to try. Her pressure, generally comes from staggering normals and mixing up throws. An experienced opponent will take advantage of the gaps caused by vulnerable startup frames and you will get punished for it.
Disagree with Moonslasher being useful on wake-up. Only EX version really is. The normal versions should get stuffed almost every time by competent opponents.
You'd be surprised. Obviously, you generally wouldn't want to do any kind of reversal on wakeup if the opponent is in proximity for a meaty. It still beats jump-in mixups among other things. I could be just biased since I like to do it and it works for me lol. I do agree that EX Moon Slasher is infinitely better. I'll take the wakeup bit out of the wiki since that is probably just a playstyle preference of mine.
Personally, I think Leona really needs meter to be effective, so I'd never place her first. That might just be habit from so many years of drawing V's and wishing she had something like EX Moonslasher, though *laughs* .
I feel like she is viable in all spots, but if that's how you guys feel then I can change that in the wiki.
I wouldn't mention her having bad zoning since she mainly a rush down character.
I mentioned it because there are semi-hybrid characters like K'/Andy/Takuma who are excellent at rushdown but can play a decent zoning game with their projectiles. Leona has a projectile and I thought it was worth noting just so people would know that zoning and spacing is not a particularly strong suit for her.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert Leona player, but what I do know is based on experience. I would like, at the very least, to not have the wiki compounded with info based on theory fighting. Previous incarnations may or may not be fully applicable in XIII, so keep that in mind. Anyway, thank you for the constructive posts. It's kind of refreshing to have some actual gameplay talk again lol. I feel like the character threads have been stagnant for a while now :(
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I should say though, I find it funny that people usually like to point out things about a character after someone has already said something. It's apparent you guys have constructive things to say, yet there hasn't been much discussion in this thread lately. Go figure.
Yeah, giving (some-what) harsh criticism after the lack discussion lately does seem like a dick move doesn't it? my bad.
Anyway, you guys try one of those crazy Moon/Grand Sabre HD combo loops yet?
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First off, thanks for your input guys. I'll note some things down and add to the wiki. I should say though, I find it funny that people usually like to point out things about a character after someone has already said something. It's apparent you guys have constructive things to say, yet there hasn't been much discussion in this thread lately. Go figure.
I didn't want to come out and say much specific to XIII because I have very little experience with this version of Leona so far. Also, although I had about 6 years of experience maining her in the past (96-2002...the years and the games *laughs* ), I've been away from KOF for about 8 years (and possibly got a little brain-damaged in that time, but that's a whole different story), so I'm a pretty shitty player right now and don't like to throw out my views on things too freely. Overall, I thought you did a pretty good job of giving a quick overview of what she's like. Just wanted to offer a few points from someone who used her a ton in the past and has used everything I've mentioned successfully (with the caveat that the vast majority of that success wasn't in XIII).
s.A for hops, sure, but cr.A and cr.B are anti-air normals?
You can use them in the same way as Iori's cr.B anti-air. DandyJ's tutorial video explains it better than my words.
I do miss the air throw, but her j.B and j.D are seriously good still. j.B especially. In my experience, worst case scenario, it'll get you a trade.
Good points. I didn't mean to sound like I was saying she's bad air-to-air without the airthrow, but it's something that makes me a bit hesitant of challenging in the air without meter now against certain characters (especially against Mai).
This is very, very dangerous. Like you said, the opponent having meter can make things go horribly wrong. I feel like meter builds quite fast in XIII, so your opponent will generally have a least 1 stock most of the time unless they've been blowing it during the rounds. Coupled with the properties EX moves generally have, you're looking to get hurt real bad.
Yeah, I'll concede that meter seems to build faster in XIII than past games, so oki Baltic Launcher is probably less viable. However, since people thought Kunio's Elizabeth HD guardcrush string was worth knowing in her thread, I didn't think it'd be too harmful to say that the ball can be a useful oki tool IF your opponent has no meter (of course, you should mix things up, not solely rely on it).
I really honestly wanted to find some use in EX X-calibur, but I have yet to find one. I've tried setups on oki (even in the corner), but, honestly, the recovery on the jump back is just too long. If she dropped down like King after EX Venom Strike, then sure, but as is it feels like a waste of meter, IMO.
I tried it a couple of times and had some success, but that's a small sample size against players of less-than-stellar skill. It's not the greatest move of its type, but (maybe because I put Leona last so I have some extra meter in the bank with her) I've never felt like it was a complete waste outside of using it accidentally (from a flubbed attempt at EX V-slasher *laughs* ).
I used to do it during blockstrings, but learned not to. Leona doesn't really have any good blockstring enders. What that means is after your general blockstring of normals, the opponent knows you have limited options to keep the pressure on. Since all of Leona's moves suffer from noticeable startup, the opponent will just mash you out of whatever you thought would be a good idea to try. Her pressure, generally comes from staggering normals and mixing up throws. An experienced opponent will take advantage of the gaps caused by vulnerable startup frames and you will get punished for it.
Like I said, it's a calculated risk, not something you can just put out all of the time. First you train them to not mash with staggered normals, then maybe no more than 5% of the time, preferably even less, cancel into it off of your first or second poke. Used rarely like that, it's less likely to be punished, especially if you've been landing counterhits into combos because you're turning 19 out of every 20 blockstrings into a frame trap, and getting that close with frame advantage is quite nice.
You'd be surprised. Obviously, you generally wouldn't want to do any kind of reversal on wakeup if the opponent is in proximity for a meaty. It still beats jump-in mixups among other things. I could be just biased since I like to do it and it works for me lol. I do agree that EX Moon Slasher is infinitely better. I'll take the wakeup bit out of the wiki since that is probably just a playstyle preference of mine.
Honestly, if you're able to land normal Moonslasher against oki jump-ins, you're playing against people who're mistiming their jumps. Non-EX Moonslasher is not a DP. It has no invulnerability (or at best, extremely limited invincibility). If it's getting clean hits for you as a psychic move, anything else with the same range/speed would be able to get those hits as well.
I feel like she is viable in all spots, but if that's how you guys feel then I can change that in the wiki.
She's viable without meter, to a degree, but she gains soooooooo much from just a little bit that it's hard for me not to disagree with saying she can work well in the first slot. V-slasher is just too potent of a threat, her drive cancel combos hurt pretty nicely since she doesn't rely on multi-hit special moves, and she's a member of that 80% 1-meter HD club.
I mentioned it because there are semi-hybrid characters like K'/Andy/Takuma who are excellent at rushdown but can play a decent zoning game with their projectiles. Leona has a projectile and I thought it was worth noting just so people would know that zoning and spacing is not a particularly strong suit for her.
I pretty much agree with you here.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert Leona player, but what I do know is based on experience. I would like, at the very least, to not have the wiki compounded with info based on theory fighting. Previous incarnations may or may not be fully applicable in XIII, so keep that in mind. Anyway, thank you for the constructive posts. It's kind of refreshing to have some actual gameplay talk again lol. I feel like the character threads have been stagnant for a while now :(
Again, I'm freely saying that I've had very limited time with XIII, so nothing I'm saying should be taken as gospel (unless good players say it is *laughs* ). Definitely appreciate the effort you put in to do the update to her wiki, I'm just trying to help make it even better :) (and I'm assuming the others are as well *laughs* ).
And yeah, outside of a few, the character threads are kind of stagnant. Seems like everyone's waiting for the console ports to come out.
Anyway, you guys try one of those crazy Moon/Grand Sabre HD combo loops yet?
With what little time I've had in practice mode (most of which hasn't even been with Leona since she's the character I'm most comfortable with using in general thanks to past experience), I've tried doing cr.C, Moon, [DC] Grand, Moon (or DM) to give me a decent punish combo. The Moon->Grand cancel isn't too bad (actually one of the few DCs I've gotten a bit of a handle on *laughs* ), but I was having some trouble landing the next Moon. Kept tending to do it too late so it wasn't actually juggling. I think I mostly need to get more familiar with exactly how fast she recovers after landing a Grand and with where the hitbox on Moon shifts to the higher damage version (feel like I'm mostly just getting too greedy for that and delaying the Moon too much).
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Yeah, giving (some-what) harsh criticism after the lack discussion lately does seem like a dick move doesn't it? my bad.
I definitely didn't mean it in a bad way, so I apologize if it came out as such. I just really encourage people to talk about the game a little bit more. Even if you think something might be wrong or you're not even sure something might work, discussion is what keeps the forums moving! So don't be shy, people!
On topic, have you guys been doing Moon Slasher HD activations? I feel like I should be doing them a lot more, but I always forget about it. Seems like it would be an easy confirm into some good damage.
P.S. I really wish she had Gravity Storm in this game.
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As for the HD activations, 4leaf should chime in as he's been getting them off on me a lot lately.
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It's pretty hard for me to do Moon Slasher HD activations since it needs to start off from a d.B. I would rather add a d.C after activating HD but if the opponent is hit at the furthest range of d.B, the d.C will miss. I can't really say much about the moon slasher to grand sabre hd combo except that it may take a few practice sessions to get the timing down.
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Does anyone know what, exactly, those things on her belt are?
The entire Ikari Team brought a beltload each. It's pretty funny they came to a fighting tournament expecting to have to blow the place to smithereens.
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As for the HD activations, 4leaf should chime in as he's been getting them off on me a lot lately.
i dont know what u guys mean with moon hd combos and i couldnt try yet the game so probably i ll do the weirdest question ... so is hd activable while doin the moon slasher ? and if yes it means d,u B+C makin leona doin the slasher and shine at the same time ?
so for the full combo d,b u,b B+C and sabre ... ... ... ?
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As for the HD activations, 4leaf should chime in as he's been getting them off on me a lot lately.
i dont know what u guys mean with moon hd combos and i couldnt try yet the game so probably i ll do the weirdest question ... so is hd activable while doin the moon slasher ? and if yes it means d,u B+C makin leona doin the slasher and shine at the same time ?
so for the full combo d,b u,b B+C and sabre ... ... ... ?
That is correct. You input your Moon Slasher as d~u B+C. This allows your HD activation and Moon Slasher to be done simultaneously. Then you just finish the combo as usual, buffering the Moon Slashers into Grand Sabres. You can get the activation off of cr.B's but your hitconfirming has to be pretty spot on or the opponent can block a C Moon Slasher. 4leaf likes to do the activation off a crossup j.C > cr.C > Moon Slasher activation > etc. I find it easier as well, since the cr.C has considerably longer hitstun than cr.B.
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As for the HD activations, 4leaf should chime in as he's been getting them off on me a lot lately.
i dont know what u guys mean with moon hd combos and i couldnt try yet the game so probably i ll do the weirdest question ... so is hd activable while doin the moon slasher ? and if yes it means d,u B+C makin leona doin the slasher and shine at the same time ?
so for the full combo d,b u,b B+C and sabre ... ... ... ?
That is correct. You input your Moon Slasher as d~u B+C. This allows your HD activation and Moon Slasher to be done simultaneously. Then you just finish the combo as usual, buffering the Moon Slashers into Grand Sabres. You can get the activation off of cr.B's but your hitconfirming has to be pretty spot on or the opponent can block a C Moon Slasher. 4leaf likes to do the activation off a crossup j.C > cr.C > Moon Slasher activation > etc. I find it easier as well, since the cr.C has considerably longer hitstun than cr.B.
i see
so u could do d.B , d.B EX moonslasher too ? ( pressinc A+B+C ? ) and then the rest of the combo or the ex version push away the opponent or something like that ? in theory cause i cant try it , it should works too and the ex version is comboable after the d.B right ? so u can hit confirm.
oh and another question since i never used crossups too much in the other episodes i dont know how they works in xiii ? usually they come off after a hop or any jump works if well spaced ? and for leona it is only jump C to crossup ?
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d.b d.b ex moonslasher with abc will activate hd
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I was in training and set the dummy to block 1 then jump then i proceeded to do Leona's instant overhead (neutral jump D) followed by her ex-caliburs. The dummy didn't block the instant overhead but they blocked if it was late. After seeing this i set the dummy to block all and it still didn't block, lastly i used block cause that doesn't switch between hi and low guard, and the instant overhead still hits the dummy. When my time ran out i tried again with a different dummy (first time I used Iori second time Ryo) to check if it was a glitch against a specific character, but it still worked on Ryo.
Can two players check to make sure it is indeed blockable in versus? I like Leona and all but a cancelable unblockable attack is a bit too much I think.
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So, did anyone notice any console changes for Leona? Save for noticing that she was my sweet XII Leona, but better, I couldn't notice any real changes. I'd be happy with 1 form or Earring Bakudan becoming the old "heart attack" variation, or her regaining her Air throw...
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So, did anyone notice any console changes for Leona? Save for noticing that she was my sweet XII Leona, but better, I couldn't notice any real changes. I'd be happy with 1 form or Earring Bakudan becoming the old "heart attack" variation, or her regaining her Air throw...
No.17 had a lengthy discussion with Yamamoto-san and he mentioned to No.17 that there were several characters that were left largely unchanged except minor tweaks. I believe it was Yuri, King, Leona and Chin but I can't remember 100%. His reasoning being that they were pretty strong/balanced in v1.1 to being with.
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Sounds pretty reasonable, though the Fanboy side of me would wish otherwise. Thanks for the heads-up!
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RobocopTwo from ON wrote up a nice tutorial about her:
http://orochinagi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=2859&p=76290#p66567 (http://orochinagi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=2859&p=76290#p66567)
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ehi guys
what do u think about leona in 2nd position in the team ? usually i would have put her 3rd but since i read the console version has leona HD combos damage nerfed i think 2nd would be better and leave all the meter i can for the last
i plan to use mai leona and vice or king replacing vice ... any advice ? i would have prefer to use king leona vice too but i think they dont match toghether ... in any case any suggestion for this team too ? talking in general king in first position could work ? and vice at the end has sense ?
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Personally, I think it depends on what style you want to play her with. If you're really good at keeping pressure with her normals, limiting the opponents options, and pressuring them with blockstrings up close, and earring minefields from afar, I think she could be a solid second.
King, Leona, Vice also doesn't sound bad. King might be stuck doing a lot of zoning and such, since she won't be using the meters as much, but her versatility should make it simple enough to go VS anyone, and stand a solid chance.
I'm a fan of Final Round Vice myself, But I think the fact that simple combos with her hurt SO GOOD makes her a solid first too, if you depend more on cancels, and less on DMs and EX moves. She's strong enough to blow opponents away, before they have time to build their own offensive. This would give you more room to play Leona and King in a more freeing way, since you'd possibly be though a good amount of their team by the time Vice falls.
With the easier pressure of her crouching low combo, plus the amount of damage she can land with corner combos, or Midscreen ones cancelled into Slash Saber, I think Leona is at one of her best years at being versatile in order selection.
With her ground normals being less awkward, including her new ground CD, a bit better crossup potential on her jumping C, a solid combo that starts off of lows, the ability to tag more damage onto Grand Sabers with Slash Saber, and EX's that make some of her more awkward special moves now much more useful, I think she has the tools needed to make her fit into a wider variety of teams, and positions..
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Personally, I think it depends on what style you want to play her with. If you're really good at keeping pressure with her normals, limiting the opponents options, and pressuring them with blockstrings up close, and earring minefields from afar, I think she could be a solid second.
King, Leona, Vice also doesn't sound bad. King might be stuck doing a lot of zoning and such, since she won't be using the meters as much, but her versatility should make it simple enough to go VS anyone, and stand a solid chance.
I'm a fan of Final Round Vice myself, But I think the fact that simple combos with her hurt SO GOOD makes her a solid first too, if you depend more on cancels, and less on DMs and EX moves. She's strong enough to blow opponents away, before they have time to build their own offensive. This would give you more room to play Leona and King in a more freeing way, since you'd possibly be though a good amount of their team by the time Vice falls.
With the easier pressure of her crouching low combo, plus the amount of damage she can land with corner combos, or Midscreen ones cancelled into Slash Saber, I think Leona is at one of her best years at being versatile in order selection.
With her ground normals being less awkward, including her new ground CD, a bit better crossup potential on her jumping C, a solid combo that starts off of lows, the ability to tag more damage onto Grand Sabers with Slash Saber, and EX's that make some of her more awkward special moves now much more useful, I think she has the tools needed to make her fit into a wider variety of teams, and positions..
mmm ok thanks
leona is definitely a 2nd character ... in the 1.1 i think she could fit better in 3rd (depending by the rest of the time of course) but we have to look at the console version and damage nerfed ... but i agree on what u said about her
im glad to know that king and vice r not that bad for a sinergy with leona ... just have to choose who put on first if king or vice.
im happy to see the team i wished to use at the start can match good ... i was turning on mai (i like her and i dont think i ll drop her anyway, she has two good reasons to be used ;) ) and drop king or vice which made me saddddd but now im happy again !!!! now i only have to see who i prefer to put on first
thanks sab
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For what it's worth, 4leaf reported that Leona's HD combos in the console version was only a tiny bit weaker, not a huge nerf.
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Moved the Leona and general overhead property discussion to the gameplay/technical thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg26235#msg26235).
I also moved sociald's team order/composition question to the Training section - How to compose a team (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=304.msg26194#msg26194) thread to keep it relevant.
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about the 'console' combo : instant overhead , qcb AC , dash , D ... do u have enough time to charge the moonslasher while performing the 2 hit D ? or is it possible to dash just doing df df and then ub ? i dont think in this last case the moonslasher come out (as much as im not sure if it is possible to dash wit the df instead of f).
if so it ll be possible to change the D with crouch C and still have the time for the charge ? or maybe the qcb Ac does enough hitstun to crouch and charge and then press C ? i just dont understand : frionel wrote about D after the EX qcb AC. isnt D too fast to let u charg the moonslasher ?
oh and since they say maybe HD combo is gone at middlescreen r they sure about it or maybe it is just harder to do ? and in the case it is gone there r combo with hd she can do at middlescreen now ?
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At least in the past KOF games, Leona's cl.D is long enough for her to charge moonslasher during it, though it's a really tight window (like 98 Mary charging (b)~f+K during f+A). I'd be surprised if it doesn't still work in XIII.
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At least in the past KOF games, Leona's cl.D is long enough for her to charge moonslasher during it, though it's a really tight window (like 98 Mary charging (b)~f+K during f+A). I'd be surprised if it doesn't still work in XIII.
this should probably be one of the things to check by ppl who can try the game as much as the HD combo at middlescreen
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Leona 777 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxNjbU9k5uo#)
Isaiah A.K.A Zaza working out his own combo for Leona at GameCenter in San Mateo. They're combos named after the amount of damage they do "Lucky 7" and "908".
Essentially, the combos are interesting because they start off with low B's and can extend into high levels of damage without neomaxing or using a crap ton of meter which makes them more viable. Anyway, just getting more resources out there. Will get the notation for it later in an edit.
EDIT: My attempt at deriving it, please help if you can!
Leona's Lucky 7's
cr. Bx2, [HD] d~u+AC, b~f+D, ([HDC] d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+B)x5, qcb hcf+K (777 damage, 2 stock, full drive)
908
cr. C [HD], st.C b~f+BD, [HDC] d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+B, [HDC] d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+B, [HDC] d~u+AC, [HDC] b~f+B, [HDC] d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+B, in air qcf hcf+AC (908 damage, 4 stock, full drive)
*Note, you shortcut by doing db~uf+C then B to DC the [HDC] d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+B strain
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*Note, you shortcut by doing db~uf+C then B to DC the [HDC] d~u+C, [HDC] b~f+B strain
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if you're telling ppl to do db~uf+C then tap B it will not work for the aforementioned cancel. The real shortcut is actually listed here (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg2359#msg2359) in the gameplay technical section.
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I'm sorry. I tried asking Isaiah how he did it, but he says he's just doing it off of muscle memory. :-( I thought he was just tapping the button's after when I was looking at his hands, but maybe its because he's holding uf and pressing B after?
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll test it when I get a chance next time--I'm pretty sure you can't do it that way but I could be wrong ;)
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doesn anyone knows if the HD combos of leona in middle screen r still possible to do in the console version or r they just harder to perform or removed ? the doubt someone moved on about this stuff is kinda a nightmare. if it is harder to perform ok but if they removed it it is a kick in the ass
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It was possible on the demo ver. at EVO.
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eyyy yoooo!!! leona!!!!
KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その３２２ Conclusion2011 vol.3（Ikari＆Fata) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz62shfWe-g#)
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is there ever going to be a dont drop that combo for her and the rest of the Ikairi Warriors~
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DDTC is going in the order of the character select screen, so Leona will be the LAST* of the characters to go. Last one they did was Athena, so we have Kensou, Chin, Ralf and Clark to go through first.
* Actually, they skipped Ash. So Ash will be the last of the arcade characters to go. Although by the time they gets to Ash, the console version will probably be out, so Billy or Saiki will likely follow soon after.
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damn...she is the one characters combo list i need the most help with in understanding now~
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What do you need?
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.A (qcb.C,d~u.C in corner)
nj.D,qcf hcb.A (instant overhead, do 2368+D 63214+A)
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcf hcb.A
Anti-air : d~u.C,(DC)b~f.B,d~u.A,qcf hcb.AC (you can option select this, always do the move and then try to drive cancel it, if it hit you drive cancel, if it miss or is blocked you don't drive cancel ...)
j.C,s.D,qcb hcf.B
j.C,s.D,b~f.B,qcf hcb.A (Corner)
j.C,s.D,d~u.C,(DC)b~f.B,d~u.A,qcf hcb.AC (Corner) (I don't remember very accurately but i guess you can do this, without the last d~u.A i'm 100% sure)
And i guess it's the most important, except the hd mode which consist on a (DC)b~f.B,d~u.A loop in corner.
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what do u think about her console version ?
seems heavily nerfed to me the only buff is about her dm
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nj.D,qcf hcb.A (instant overhead, do 2368+D 63214+A)
Don't forget that you can combo V-slasher off of j.A now, too: qcf~u/f+A, d/f~b+A (2369+A,34+A) or qcfx2~u/f+A, b+A (2362369+A,4+A). Easier than using nj.D, and a little safer if you mess up to get h.A or hh.A than nj.D.
what do u think about her console version ?
seems heavily nerfed to me the only buff is about her dm
So far, the changes I've heard of are:
- Overall damage reduced (main HD combo does about 10% less damage)
- Voltec Launcher [(b)~f+A/C] chips less guard meter
- Strike Arch [f+B] comes out faster
- Fierce V-Slasher [j.qcf~hcb+C] has different angle; weak travels short, fierce goes far. EX version is the same as the arcade.
- Ground Saber [(b)~f+B/D] has longer recovery when blocked. About even when fierce version gets blocked.
- Moon Slasher [(d)~u+A/C] has less hitback when blocked. All of them (weak, fierce, EX) are easier to get punished than the arcade.
- EX X-Caliber [j.qcb+AC] comes out faster. Still can't be comboed from a normal or direction attack.
To me, that sounds about even overall, maybe slightly nerfed. Obviously, losing damage sucks, but the change is pretty small. Taking less guard meter with the cheeseball isn't that big of a deal to me since I mostly only use that when zoning against characters without projectiles. Faster f+B is a nice buff (pretty safe on block except against instant command grabs, overhead, hard knockdown, and now faster?!), gives her a way of cracking open defenses without having to spend meter on an instant overhead~V-slasher combo. V-slasher being back to how it worked in 2002 is fine with me (lets her contol more of the screen from the air once she has meter). Slower recovery for ground saber is kind of lame, but from the way it's worded, it sounds like it's still safe (except maybe against instant command grabs), and 4leaf said that the HD loop still worked midscreen in the EVO build (just harder, probably due to longer recovery), so again, not a huge issue for me since that move belongs in combos anyway. Same with the changes to moon slasher. EX X-calibur coming out faster sounds like it'll be a lot easier to use for oki setups, especially combined with the increased chance of having a hard knockdown thanks to the faster f+B.
So, yeah, overall, it looks like a bunch of little tweaks that will still leave her as a strong character.
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what do u think about her console version ?
seems heavily nerfed to me the only buff is about her dm
For my take, as a traditional Leona player, I've always thought her damage and options looked much better than average in XIII. Strike Arch being able to combo off lights was such a nice change, Slash Saber DM could combo easily from any Grand Saber hits, and the 2 version of normal X-Calibur in the air were something I always wanted, really.
Coming from XII, I was worried she'd lose some of her Corner-combo power, but she seems to have made up for it very well. While many characters loss the "buffs" the CC system brought to their combos, Leona pretty much ported hers over to HD without a hitch.
And then coming from XIII Arcade, to XIII Console, she seems to have recieved the same kind of "weakening of 'unfair' tactics, buffing of legit meter-dependent tactics" that other characters recieved. Also, SNKP seems to be trying to make people depend on a broader span of tactics, so they've taken away some "too good" properties of moves, to make you use something else also. So I think she's pretty par for the course, though I wouldn't have minded a normal buff here or there (hop C made into an even stronger crossup? Standing B -> Far C Chain combo for HD confirms / grand saber combos? Chain into crouch D for a knockdown mixup combo?), or a return of her air throw for good measure.
Two things I personally would have liked also, would be to have seem a form of her "Earring Bakudan" turned into the old "heart attack!" bomb plant (is the current B bakudan really useful?), or a variation of it, and to see Slash Saber either get fireball invulnerability (since she USED to be able to run under fireballs with Grand Saber / running anyway...), or to get an EXDM version of the move that had such (with an Orochi-infused howl animation for the end, for good measure...)
She might have had something added that just wasn't mentiond, though! But I think she sounds like a very solid character on consoles, but the fan in me would have always liked more! :)
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nj.D,qcf hcb.A (instant overhead, do 2368+D 63214+A)
Don't forget that you can combo V-slasher off of j.A now, too: qcf~u/f+A, d/f~b+A (2369+A,34+A) or qcfx2~u/f+A, b+A (2362369+A,4+A). Easier than using nj.D, and a little safer if you mess up to get h.A or hh.A than nj.D.
From page 2 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg1989#msg1989):
(Apparently, all qcf~hcb motions can be performed like qcf~qcf~b)
- qcf x2~up+D --> (buffers the V-Slasher) b+P
I dunno which one works (maybe they all do so I'll post this)
- qcf~up+D --> hcb+P EDIT: This one seems work better than the first.
- qcf~down~up+D --> qcb+P
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In general, yes the hyperhop A is a lot easier to do but in terms of spacing, it's not as good as a mix up as you have to be at least one-d.B-distance away for the hh.A to hit (which means you can't do d.B, s.B -->), the vertical D is nastier as you can do it right next to them yet still have a good d.B option.
Of course only time will tell, but she does *feel* like she got hit harder with a nerf stick than others. We'll have to seen in the next few weeks.
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d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.A (C in corner)
In the corner, can you do
d.B,s.B,f+B, air qcb+C, d_u+A ? I know you can do d_u+AC, but can't remember if A worked.
This was my favorite Leona corner combo. With some DC, and a DM finisher, it does some serious damage and looks awesome.
Leona should be okay in the console version. Still don't think the nerfs were justified. Definitely mid-tier though.
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In the corner, can you do
d.B,s.B,f+B, air qcb+C, d_u+A ? I know you can do d_u+AC, but can't remember if A worked.
Yep, only Ex or A version C version Moon Slasher connects after C X-Calibur in the corner.
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In the corner, can you do
d.B,s.B,f+B, air qcb+C, d_u+A ? I know you can do d_u+AC, but can't remember if A worked.
Yep, only Ex or A version Moon Slasher connects after C X-Calibur in the corner.
...or you can be cool and go for a reset ;)
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For me it's easier to hit the opponent with nj.D than A, better hitbox and feeling with the move, and for the corner combo i forgot the moon slasher C :
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.C,d~u.C
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For me it's easier to hit the opponent with nj.D than A, better hitbox and feeling with the move, and for the corner combo i forgot the moon slasher C :
d.B,s.B,f.B,qcb.C,d~u.C
Oops got them mixed up, only C Moon Slasher, I stand corrected.
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Leona should be okay in the console version. Still don't think the nerfs were justified. Definitely mid-tier though.
Dunno if I like the amount of nerfing to Leona either. Granted she still has the instant overhead > v-slasher and her HD goodness, but it would've been better if they improved on something else to give Leona players more inspiration to play her on console. Some think potential-wise she can still be top tier when played by the really skilled, but have to keep in mind that most characters are receiving some pretty solid buffs.
I mean they could have made EX X-Caliber combo from strike arch since you're expending a meter...that would be awesome. Hoping that there is a tweak not mentioned on the blog for her that makes her more fun. Oh well, let's wait and see...
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Wider range V-slasher is going to pretty much shut up a lot of the other character changes though XD But you saw the kinda things I woulda linked to see her get on console... if she ends up too weak though, I hope SNKP will be willing to change some things with a patch. She'll still be on one of my teams either way!
Another thing I would have liked to have seen, that would have been a minor thing to change, would have been letting qcb+C land from Strike Arch, even at midscreen. Would have allowed a new way to land Grand Saber -> Slash Saber follow-ups Midscreen, and wouldn't really be too OP, since it'd require some generous cancels. Might have possibly made her HD combos too good?
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i wasnt waiting for buffs but what i mean is : there r not so much openings when u come close to the opponent so why dont change the air qcb C comboable or at least the EX version ? ok f+B is nice and good and whatever but compared to the rest of the cast more combo options would have been welcome especially if u think as an opponent : ok im guarding she is doing her crouch b what could she do after ? instant overhead , DM ? s.B f+B and then ? nothing ... ok i just have to guess the crouch or stand option (i dont mean with this that the air qcb C would change everything especially in the example i putted on cause if the opponent is guarding then u r fucked but it would have been just a lil thing more and definitely not a huge change to her gameplay thinking she is a charge character too and doing a fuckincirclemotion sometimes wouldnt have been so bad ).ok if u can do s.B f+B on a blockin character and then u r safe and u can keep pressure it wouldnt be so bad but what make me think r the nerfs on moonslasher and sabre.if they leaved them like in the arcade it would have been better and maybe adjusting the hitbox of b,f a or c since it seems kinda bad of a move compared to the old versions
we ll see we ll see
for sure she is just too charming to drop her for few nerfs
:)
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Leona's offensive options aren't that great because she is that good at zoning, keeping the opponent away and on the ground.
But she can also build an extremely powerful pressing because of her options on low/high mixup.
High :
f.B
Throw
nj.D/A
Low :
d.B
s.B
And it's because of her s.B she can really open the guard because it's hitting low.
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Throw's unblockable ;)
But otherwise, yeah, her high/low is dangerous once she has meter. Maybe not quite as strong as it was in the past with unblockables via qcb+K, and the lack of air throw OS hurts her air game as well, but still, for a character who's about poke harassment, her mixups are pretty good (and this is where I really like having h.A cancelable, since a psychic high block against nj.D is many times worse for Leona).
what make me think r the nerfs on moonslasher and sabre.if they leaved them like in the arcade it would have been better
Are the changes to those moves really that bad? Moon slasher is always a deathwish on block, and the increased recovery time for ground saber can't be all THAT bad considering the HD loop still works (unless maybe SNK made the recovery even worse sometime after EVO).
maybe adjusting the hitbox of b,f a or c since it seems kinda bad of a move compared to the old versions
The old (b)~f+C was basically useless outside of MAYBE trying it as a crossup on your opponent's wakeup, which would probably never fool someone more than once, and if you had enough time for that, you probably would've been better off doing an unblockable with qcb+B instead.
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Throw's unblockable ;)
Since you can only techthrow while standing for me it's a high.
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Throw's unblockable ;)
But otherwise, yeah, her high/low is dangerous once she has meter. Maybe not quite as strong as it was in the past with unblockables via qcb+K, and the lack of air throw OS hurts her air game as well, but still, for a character who's about poke harassment, her mixups are pretty good (and this is where I really like having h.A cancelable, since a psychic high block against nj.D is many times worse for Leona).
what make me think r the nerfs on moonslasher and sabre.if they leaved them like in the arcade it would have been better
Are the changes to those moves really that bad? Moon slasher is always a deathwish on block, and the increased recovery time for ground saber can't be all THAT bad considering the HD loop still works (unless maybe SNK made the recovery even worse sometime after EVO).
maybe adjusting the hitbox of b,f a or c since it seems kinda bad of a move compared to the old versions
The old (b)~f+C was basically useless outside of MAYBE trying it as a crossup on your opponent's wakeup, which would probably never fool someone more than once, and if you had enough time for that, you probably would've been better off doing an unblockable with qcb+B instead.
[/quote ]
writing (b),f a or c i was meaning the punch movie and not remembering the name i just wrote the A - C sorry, sure with C it wasnt that great but i dont think the A version in xiii is like the A version of old episodes (im just talking without playin the game since i dont have chance to find an arcade in fuckin italy) but considering in the hundreds videos on youtube i have seen that move maybe 1 or 2 times in like 1983810480481082048141 matches means that the move suck ?? which is bad since as u said she is a zone character ... of course im not judging without playin or doing the asshole just i like leona too much and see some of her arsenal improved would have been nice
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First page has been updated with console changes.
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I'll still be using her from time to time (has never been a main, but like her), would be pretty pleased if they left some other Leona buffs out of the blog update.
What gives me hope other than the fact that they mention the updates are not exhaustive on changes are actual examples. It's mentioned in console testing reports that Joe's tiger kick is quite different based on whether you use B or D in consoles. (although the EX tiger kick change clashes with reports of improved invincibility on D). Maybe it will be B - fast, D - invincible, EX - both fast and invincible. If something like this is the case, Leona may still have something up her sleeve yet.
(lol, I know she ain't wearing sleeves)
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After lot of tests i'm going to use more consistently the hop.A V-slasher than the nj.D, because the confirm is easier, it has more range, thus you can travel a pretty nice distance before hit your opponent, it's fucking damn fast (though nj.D is faster to do a REAL instant overhead), it allows you to charge a b~f.K to punish a roll (and if he rolls in the over direction he will end behind you at s.C range :} ).
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Earlier, it had been reported that Leona's HD combos had been nerfed slightly in the console version. Is it possible that this isn't Leona-specific, but actually just the result of the adjusted damage scaling to HD combos? None of her moves have actually had their damage lowered, right?
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Earlier, it had been reported that Leona's HD combos had been nerfed slightly in the console version. Is it possible that this isn't Leona-specific, but actually just the result of the adjusted damage scaling to HD combos? None of her moves have actually had their damage lowered, right?
One of the things that could explain is the scaling of regular DMs to 40% (vs 50% in the arcades). Sounds about right, as 10% of her DM is 20~22dmg depending on which one.
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I'm having trouble with her Mission 3.
It has a ;dn ;up move following a 5 ;a.
Does that mean to quickly hit the 5 ;a on the way from 2 to 8?
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Yes. [2]~5A~8P.
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Yes. [2]~5A~8P.
Thanks for the quick response Omega. I'll try this first thing when I get home.
Although I'm starting to worry that many of these links and cancels are too fast for the quality of online play I've been getting so far.
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be funny if Heidern's first name was Leon.
(http://marcamos.com/ha/thats-great-no-its-not.gif)
Leona's has a very short charge time in this game, I think it is identicle to Kim's. Something I will test and show numbers for soon. It's very hard to get used to after so long using the classic kof (96-2k2-um) charge times.
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If I'm remembering accurately charges times are something between 20 and 25 frames (+/- depending on characters/moves maybe).
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Something in the 20-30 frame range sounds about right. It's just fast enough that you can do a cl.D, immediately charge down, and cancel the second hit into moonslasher (little easier to do in XIII compared to 2002, possibly since hitstop seems longer in XIII).
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So, what does everyone think of her "Nerfs" now that they have their hands on the game? Grand Saber *weak* version is very punishable (For Leona) but the Strong Version seems to give it's classic frametrap-happy frame advantage, letting one easily ;dwn ;b -> ;dwn ;a -> Moonslasher.
I love her XIII normals so much more than her old ones. Far C is more useful, and a nice HD starter, D is almost a decent an anti-air / anti move as someone like Vice, jumping ;a and ;b are both great, and her CD is at it's fastest, most useful yet, especially since a counterhit with it can follow-up with D Grand Saber -> (Corner) Moonslasher of your choice / Neomax!
I like the fact her EX X Calibur is faster now, and it IS nice to use for lockdown, but I do still wish I could find some other changes. Just to make her feel a bit more fresh, like everyone else. Still, she's one of my favs to play, though I can't do a slash=crazy HD combo with her at all yet :(
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Hey SAB, I haven't used Leona seriously in XIII yet.
Sounds like she can still hang based on your comments here :)
If you're able to, would you be able to find/point out any/which changes were not mentioned in the change log? I'm really interested to see what else they have done with her. (I realize that some of what you mention may already be doing this but getting a bit confused since I didn't use her much :P )
I have a feeling that the nerfs she got had to do with them thinking they needed to balance for her instant overhead to v-slasher being crackingly strong. In good hands it's almost unstoppable. This paired with the extra flexibility in V slasher angles...
Anyone agree with that thought? (not saying it was completely warranted considering everyone else's buffs, but figure this is the reason)
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Who are two good Characters too put with her?
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It depends how you're using Leona, but basically anyone. Just try to save one/two ex at the end of your second character for her. Without it you won't be a real threat at the beginning of the round.
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Hey SAB, I haven't used Leona seriously in XIII yet.
Sounds like she can still hang based on your comments here :)
If you're able to, would you be able to find/point out any/which changes were not mentioned in the change log? I'm really interested to see what else they have done with her. (I realize that some of what you mention may already be doing this but getting a bit confused since I didn't use her much :P )
She can combo a deep hop A , D, or jump D into A X-calibur, not sure if she could do this in arcade of not? It's nice to see possible with the reduced hitstun on jump attacks, and gives her a meterless air combo, which she hasn't always had.
I have a feeling that the nerfs she got had to do with them thinking they needed to balance for her instant overhead to v-slasher being crackingly strong. In good hands it's almost unstoppable. This paired with the extra flexibility in V slasher angles...
Yeah... Leona has the kinda strengths that fit this game now, but her airplay normals and crouching attack range are still better than many, at the same time. I still wish she had her air throw back, she'd utterly control the air in a BIG way, then.
Anyone agree with that thought? (not saying it was completely warranted considering everyone else's buffs, but figure this is the reason)
I DO think she's a much better Leona than she's ever been, personally, she just feels more well-rounded overall. EX moves give her options she never had before, Which makes things like Baltic Launcher and Earring Bakudan able to fit into combos and uses that are very unusual.
I stil view home console version as making everyone more meter dependent. Leona way for this, is that her best damage comes from her DMs, and her abilitity to lengthen damage off counterhits and pressure strings with her much-quicker EX moves.
I do wish they gave her more utility to Slash Saber DM, I don't believe her fully disappearing from screen during it counts as invincibility (It's awkward to start with), and if it does, it takes some time to start, which keeps it from being a great reversal. I haven't personally seen a difference in button pressed for it yet either, and I think that's kinda a waste. If the weak one has instant invincibility + a quicker hit, and the strong one were to travel far, but only have, at most, late invincibility, I think the move would see more use.
Ahh well, Max cancelling with her is crazy satisfying, especially since you can cancel EX V slasher before the V even explodes, lol. Easy standing low weak kick confirms into Slashers, crouching weak kick, double hit Ds and Cs, a nice quick far C for potential HD or just general distanced punishing (It's forward momentum for punishes makes it feel more like Vice's 2K2UM Far C than Vice's own current one...), added on to being one of the few characters with a full-screen special move approach that seems to actually leave her mostly safe (D grand Saber, not even sure if she can be command throw punished out of it...), and she still can hang with the best of them! Just with such tricky execution for those HD combos... but EX moves let you cheat there, lol.
Who are two good Characters too put with her?
Anyone, lol. I normally put Leona 2nd or 3rd, and I generally like a first who'll be able to give her a meter or 2 for V-slashers threat. Her pokes can make her survive in 1st place well, though, and her awkward playstyle can make it easy for you to control the match with her, and take down their battery characters in short order.
Like Sharnt said, it all depends on how you want to use her... but meter makes her scarier.
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SAB, thanks for the generous write-up!!!
Didn't know a j.A could be used to connect x-calibur, think it was always possible with D though. Would have been cool if EX could combo off of normals.
I guess Slash Saber is sort of reserved for HD combos. Suppose she's one of those chrs that is great w/meter as her HD combos are sick.
I'll definitely put in a bit of time with her once I get my dirty mits on the game.
Thanks again man
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trial 5 sucks how do connect the ;bk ;fd lk after a ;dn ;up lp :(
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trial 5 sucks how do connect the ;bk ;fd lk after a ;dn ;up lp :(
;db~ ;ub ;a> ;fd ;b
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you should be able to do it if you charge ;db so you are charging both moves then ;ub ;a (retains back charge) then ;fd ;b
Can also do ;df ;b so that you are charging the next ;dn ;up ;a
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you should be able to do it if you charge ;db so you are charging both moves then ;ub ;a (retains back charge) then ;fd ;b
Can also do ;df ;b so that you are charging the next ;dn ;up ;a
You always want to charge down-back, and not down-forward, so you are still storing motions for both back and down.
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Oops, yeah forgot to mention that it should be rolled back to ;db afterwards (^_^')
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im stucked in her trials ...
the one with neomax coast to coast combo i thought it would have been easier . i noticed i feel better when i delay after the c.C so it does automatically the second c.C after HD but i still having problems to hit with the 2nd moonslasher after the sabre. i noticed it is slower than it seems and u have to delay the moonslasher but sometimes i wiff with the other sabre
any advice ?
if i didnt explain well : c.C delay HD automatic c.C while holding ;db then ;ub C ;fd D (after the animation hits ) moonslasher again but sometimes the sabre D whiff cause cant reach the body and i cant travel him to the corner
any advice ?
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Thanks all i should have to try that kinda like doin chunli ex-sbk into ultra......i can do it now ...appreciate the helpful reminder :)
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yayyyyyyyyyyy almost mastered her
combos and HD comes out easily since day 2 still few problems with the carry side by side HD combo since sometimes i miss the 2nd moonslasher
anyway ... i hate the baltic launcher trial
oh just a technical question u cant hd bypass a special move right ? i mean if i do c.b c.b d, u BC it bypass in moonslasher hd and this is ok but if i do just a moonslasher pressing BC come out only the hd right ?
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you should be able to do it if you charge ;db so you are charging both moves then ;ub ;a (retains back charge) then ;fd ;b
Can also do ;df ;b so that you are charging the next ;dn ;up ;a
As an interesting note, I find the shortcuts to be a bit inefficient for me? I actually have found her much easier to cancel by simple going Charge ;db -> ;up ;a -> ;fd ;b . This uses the same back charge for moth moves, letting you go from 1 down / back combo charge, into 2 forward motions.
For me, I find this makes it more reliable to land the slashers outside of hit confirms (say if you want to instantly do the cancel out of a counter Moon Slasher), and it results in less back hop mistakes.
Also, question. Does anyone have any idea how punishable Slash Saber DM is on block? It really feels like a very small window, which I was suprised about.
Sociald, I haven't been able to Bypass HD with her yet, but maybe that's a good place to use that trick from one of her early trials, where she's able to stick a crouching LP in after 3 crouch LKs, into EX moon slasher? Do the HD Cancel during the LP, and go directly into the Moon slasher from the HD cancel?
Maybe we could even HD cancel Jump-ins somehow for her? That'd be really unique, and kinda odd...
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you should be able to do it if you charge ;db so you are charging both moves then ;ub ;a (retains back charge) then ;fd ;b
Can also do ;df ;b so that you are charging the next ;dn ;up ;a
As an interesting note, I find the shortcuts to be a bit inefficient for me? I actually have found her much easier to cancel by simple going Charge ;db -> ;up ;a -> ;fd ;b . This uses the same back charge for moth moves, letting you go from 1 down / back combo charge, into 2 forward motions.
For me, I find this makes it more reliable to land the slashers outside of hit confirms (say if you want to instantly do the cancel out of a counter Moon Slasher), and it results in less back hop mistakes.
Also, question. Does anyone have any idea how punishable Slash Saber DM is on block? It really feels like a very small window, which I was suprised about.
Sociald, I haven't been able to Bypass HD with her yet, but maybe that's a good place to use that trick from one of her early trials, where she's able to stick a crouching LP in after 3 crouch LKs, into EX moon slasher? Do the HD Cancel during the LP, and go directly into the Moon slasher from the HD cancel?
Maybe we could even HD cancel Jump-ins somehow for her? That'd be really unique, and kinda odd...
mmm the bypass hd is easy just do c.B and moonslasher with the same timing u use always, just press BC instead of C. same for the combo trial. do it like usual so c.B c.B c.B s.A ( whiff ) moonslasher pressing BC. the HD is activated at the same time u hit with the moonslasher arch and of course u can do the same with the EX version pressing ABC.
what do u mean for HD cancel-jump ins ? u mean to find a way and a use to activate HD while jumping in ?
what would have been great is an HD activation of the single move and not just the move in combo. example if u use moonslasher as AA then u can DC but if u use moonslasher as AA u cant HD bypass ... well i think that would have been too much ;)
sab r u on xbox ? :)
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A couple of 4 bar combos + 1112 damage just for the hell of it:
The King of Fighters XIII: Leona 1112 damage CH HD Combo + 4 Bar Punish Combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX_vOODhghs#ws)
Everything is using ;c or ;d except for the very first EX Moon Slasher/Grand Saber, and the non-drive cancelled Grand Saber which is ;b. For the first combo (1001 damage) there is a small delay drive cancelling after the first Grand Saber so that the opponent rises a little higher.
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A couple of 4 bar combos + 1112 damage just for the hell of it:
Nice! Please transcribe the strength of the specials that you used so people can learn it. I always found the second Moon Slasher ([DC] off the Grand Saber) tricky.
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A couple of 4 bar combos + 1112 damage just for the hell of it:
Nice! Please transcribe the strength of the specials that you used so people can learn it. I always found the second Moon Slasher ([DC] off the Grand Saber) tricky.
it is ... for this it comes the EX saber version with makes evrything easier
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A couple of 4 bar combos + 1112 damage just for the hell of it:
Nice! Please transcribe the strength of the specials that you used so people can learn it. I always found the second Moon Slasher ([DC] off the Grand Saber) tricky.
Added a note under the video, all heavy/EX stuff except for the light Grand Saber which isn't cancelled out of or into anything.