Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => King => Topic started by: nilcam on July 27, 2010, 02:53:24 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/king.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
Hook Buster - ;bk / ;fd+ ;c / ;d
Command Moves
;df ;d= Slide Kick
King's slide kick moves her forward on the ground for a low hitting kick. If you land close high kick, you can combo into slide kick and initiate a cancel into Trap Shot (other cancels still to be tested). However, landing her slide kick by itself will not let you cancel into Trap Shot.
Special Moves
;fd ;dn ;df ;b or ;d= Trap Shot*
King will do a backflip kick. If it lands, she will go into a full animation where she kicks the opponent multiple times. If it whiffs, no further animation will occur. Trap Shot can be canceled into a lot of different moves (Venom Strike, Surprise Rose, others??) and seems to be safe on block, making it extremely useful.
;dn ;df ;fd ;b or ;d= Venom Strike* (can be done in air)
King's projectile. A standard fireball on the ground. She can also perform this move anytime during her jump-arc whether it be neutral, backward, or forward, which is very useful for zoning.
;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b or ;d= Tornado Kick '95*
King does a whirlwind kick forward. The start up on this move feels pretty slow, so don't throw it out when your opponent is close enough to react. It's called Tornado Kick '95 because her Tornado Kicks in recent games have been much more vertical, and this Tornado Kick resembles the OG horizontal version in KoF 95
Desperation Moves
;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;b or ;d= DM Double Strike
King throw's out two very large and fast Venom Stikes.
;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c= DM Surprise Rose*
King does an upwards kick during the first part of the animation, then lands forward for more kicks. The upwards kick in the beginning makes this super viable as an anti air, but it does not have great priority and can get beaten out by certain normals. Depending on whether you press ;a or ;c, she will travel shorter or farther respectively with the second part.
Neomax
;dn ;db ;bk ;dn ;db ;bk ;b+ ;d= NEOMAX Venom Shot
Information provided by davidkong07
King's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=King_(XIII)).
Console changes:
- (shown in video) Jump D stays out longer
- (shown in video) close C has faster startup
- (shown in video) D Venom Strike (air) has a smaller recoil
- far D has less lag
- (shown in video) Slide can be cancelled without being cancelled into
Yamamoto – We focused on her normals mainly. Although the number of changes are few, it will change gameplay significantly as normals are used most often. Her slide is a great low move and since her close HP {s.C} isn’t affected by scaling easily, please us it often as a combo starter.
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Information moved to fist post. Thanks for the help filling these pages in. -nilcam
Technical Reference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U66VV2gBUxU#t=4m10s
Combos (thanks krazykone123)
- cr. B, cr. A, df+D, hcb+B, st. C
- cr. B, cr. A, df+D, dp+B, [DC] hcb+B, dp+D
- cr. B, cr. A, df+D [HD], st. D (2), df+D, (dp+B, [DC] hcb+B)*4, qcfx2+AC
- cr. C, df+D, hcb+B, dp+D, [DC] hcb+B, hcb+D, [SC] qcfx2+AC
- cr. B, cr. A, df+D [HD], st. D (2), dp+D, [DC] hcb+B, dp+D, [SC] qcfx2+AC, [MC] qcbx2+BD
Special Attack combos
- hcb+B, dp+K
- hcb+B, dp+K, (DC) hcb+B, dp+K
- hcb+B, dp+K, (DC) qcf+B
- qcf+BD, qcf+B, hcb+D
- hcb+B, dp+K, [DC] qcf+BD, qcf+Bx2, st. C
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Madman himself over at mmcafe posts his write up (Update: Here's the original link, check it periodically in case he updates it)
http://www.mmcafe.com/etc/kof13/king.html
Imperfect Player's guide for King in KOFXIII
Aka Professor's Personal notes for using King
Last revised on 08-09-2010
Pros:
-Good at Zoning, has moves for both far range and close up.
-Excels at fighting from distance due to varieties of projectiles.
-Good at chip damage since Venom Strike is safe on Guard.
Cons:
-No high damage combos without meters.
-Not good at breaking into opponent; no overheads and jumps are too slow.
-No invincible anti-air without power meter.
1 minute tutorial on how to use King:
King is good at fighting both in far and close range. Her method of pressuring is by chip damage, rather than breaking into the opponent. A useful character against scrubs and turtling players, but weak against rushdowns when meter is not built up. Mid-tier character.
1.King is great at mind games from a distance. Annoy the opponent by zoning with Venom strikes of different strengths from the ground and air. Punish them if they jump or roll through.
2.Standing Weak kick is extremely useful in close combat. Fast, good reach, hits low, useful for countering after a guard, connects from jump attacks with ease. Great for starting off a combo with a slide.
3.Venom strike, especially weak, is good for chipping. The other specials are for combos only and will leave you dead on a guard.
4.Good anti airs are- Sliding, Crouching C, EX Trap Shot, EX Tornado Kick, Surprise Rose (both normal and EX).
5.Mandatory learnings to use King: The timings on Anti-airs, Tornado Kick & Trap Shot loop, power meter management, the input timing for canceling slides into specials/supers.
Detailed Stuff
Normal moves-
Standing A: Rarely used.
Standing B: King's most useful normal move. Long range, fast, cancelable. Needs to be guarded low. Useful for connecting into a slide.
Standing C (close): Rarely used.
Standing D (close): Not too fast but hits twice. Both hits are cancelable.
Standing C (far): Long range, relatively fast. Connects from weak Tornado Kick. Somewhat useful to prevent opponents from jumping in.
Standing D (far): Long range, hits higher than far C and somewhat useful to prevent opponents from jumping in.
Crouching A: Short range, cancelable.
Crouching B: Long range, not cancelable to a move but can hit rapidly/renda cancel. Can be linked to Crouching A or Standing B.
Crouching C: Good anti-air. Can beat most jumps as long as the timing is right and it's not a crossup. Cancelable.
Crouching D: Footsweep. Rarely used since there are better alternatives. Cancelable.
Jump A: Rarely used.
Jump B: Good air-against-air move.
Jump C: Not often used. Cancelable into Venom Strike although it doesn't seem to hit unless it's a counter.
Jump D: Useful for jumping in. Can be used for crossup.
Standing CD: Floating kick move. Slow, Good range. Cancelable with ground attacks.
Jumping CD: Good air-against-air move. Cancelable into Venom Strike although it doesn't seem to hit unless it's a counter.
Sliding (Downforward+B):
One of King's most important moves. Cancelable when used from a normal. Can be done from a kara-cancel/whiffed attack, so King can basically do cancelable slides from any distance. Useful for many situations, including combos and anti-air. Command input timing for canceling into a special/super is at near the end of the slide and can be hard to master at first.
Personal Action (Start):
Does her victory pose with a rose in her mouth, then kicks and smashes it into peices. The taunt is long and can't be canceled with any sort of controller or button motion/combination. No practical use.
Specials:
Venom Strike:
All venom strikes leaves opponent with hit detection and followups are possible. Does not build up King's meter if dodged.
Weak: Travels slow but recovery is fast. Safe on guard. Good move for chipping opponent's life.
Fierce: Travels Fast.
EX: Extremely fast and penetrates projectiles. Opponent falls back when hit.
Air Venom Strike:
All air venom strikes leaves opponent with hit detection and followups are possible. Does not build up King's meter if dodged.
Weak: Travels slow, King drops straight down after shooting.
Fierce: Travels fast, King hops back and upwards after shooting and therefore lands slow. Use with extreme caution.
EX: Travels extremely fast, penetrates projectiles. King drops down very quickly after shooting.
Trap Shot:
Normal: Comes out fast but opened to attacks when guarded. For use in combos only. Can be used to punish some low attacks but extremely risky.
EX: Comes out faster and has invincibility. Good as anti-air.
Tornado Kick:
Weak: One of King's most important moves. Opponent floats when hit, continues to have hit detection. Hard to punish if guarded on tip.
Fierce: Double the damage of Weak and travels far. Doesn't float opponent like Weak and EX Surprise Rose is about the only possible follow-up. Opened to punishment when guarded.
EX: Fast, travels far, has good invincibility and useful both as anti-air and projectile punishment. Somewhat useful for escaping out of corners. Normally can't be connected to another move after landing. Opened to punishment when guarded.
Surprise Rose:
Normal: Has invincibility and good as an anti-air. Sometimes misses on the way down.
EX: Good anti-air, hit detection comes out faster and is useful as a finisher for a juggle at the corner. More damaging than normal version.
Double Strike:
Normal: Good damage. Fierce travels faster.
No EX version.
NEOMAX Venom Shot:
1 Frame execution, meaning that it comes out as fast as a special/super throw. Max 17 hits. Hard to get a full hit though possible from Max cancel. 450 damage on full hit, which is about the same amount as an average combo done with 2 power meters. Not a practical move except as a finisher for the match.
Basic Combos-
Things to remember:
Damage scaling is 5% decrease per hit, not per move.
Damage scaling stops after falling to 20% (around 16-17 hits)
Supers and Neomaxes stops scaling at 50% rather than 20%.
Special Moves with multiple hits: EX Venom: 2 (ground only) / Trap Shot: 4 / EX Trap Shot: 7 / Tornado Kick: 2 / EX Tornado Kick: 3
0 Drive meter/0 Power meter
Normal attack> Slide> Venom Strike
The most basic combo for King. King is at an advantage when guarded. Not to be used against opponents with a meter unless they don't realize they can AB guard cancel roll.
0 Drive meter/0 Power meter
Normal attack> Slide> B Tornado Kick> Standing C
Another basic combo. Far C connects from Tornado Kick.
0 Drive meter/1 Power meter
Normal attack> Slide> EX Venom Strike> B Venom Strike> D Tornado Kick
Done at corner. Relatively Damaging combo considering that only one meter is being used.
It can also be done in the middle of the screen by taking away the B Venom Strike.
0 Drive meter/2 Power meter
Normal attack> Slide> EX Venom Strike> B Venom Strike> Double Strike
Done at corner. Same as the combo above, but ends with a Double Strike. Relatively damaging.
It can also be done in the middle of the screen by taking away the B Venom Strike; the damage is lower but it pushes the opponent near the end of the screen.
1 Drive meter/ 0 (or 2) Power meter Corner Only
Normal attack> Slide> B Tornado Kick> Trap Shot (DriveCancel)> B Tornado Kick > D Tornado Kick > EX Surprise Rose
King's easy and reliable T&T Loop. Remove the EX Surprise Rose when there's no power meter.
2 Drive meter/2 Power meter Corner Only
Normal attack> Slide> HyperDrive> Standing D(2hits)> Slide> [Trap Shot (Drive Cancel)> B Tornado Kick] x 4 > D Tornado Kick> EX Surprise Rose
Done at corner. Very easy, just do King's T&T loop for 4 times.
Unconfirmed combo from Japanese Shitaraba BBS, reportedly to do 968 Damage:
2 Drive meter/5 Power meter
Jump C> crouching C> Slide> Hyperdrive> crouching C> Slide> EX Venom Strike> B Venom Strike> D Tornado Kick Hyperdrive on 1st hit> EX Air Venom Strike> [Trap Shot (Drive Cancel)> B Tornado Kick] x 3 > Double Strike > EX surprise Rose
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no problem!
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Is there an SDM version of Double Strike? If so, what's different about it? I assume it would be similar to '98UM EX King.
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Is there an SDM version of Double Strike? If so, what's different about it? I assume it would be similar to '98UM EX King.
No there is not, she only has Ex Surprise Rose.
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has her hcf+p and hcb+p from 02um been removed?
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^^^
Yes. XIII King is apparently based on her Art of Fighting/Ryuuko no Ken versions, which is also why she has the Double Strike as a DM, even though she already has an EX Venom Strike... :=(
For the record, King lost the Mirage Kick (hcb+P advancing multi-kick move) and Mirage Dance (hcf+P command throw), as well as the 45 degree angle, multi-hit '96 version of the Tornado Kick, as early as KOF 2003.
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In This (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11607759) vid King does her standard BnB (c.D, d/f.D, Tornado Kick) but then lands a far C after the Tornado Kick which leads me to believe that she would be able to substitute that with an EX Trap Shot...ouch. And that's without even using the HD Bar.
Do note that Andy was backturned, but the combo was still midscreen.
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From what I know is that King has to utilize her fireball game as her strongest point and for BnB's she can do ;dn ;b, ;dn ;a, ;df ;d+ tornado kick or Std. ;d, ;df ;d+ tornado kick.
For Block strings she can use her Std. ;c ;d+Venom strike or Std. ;d, ;df ;d+venom strike. Also you can use her Std. ;c ;d as a poke too.
If somebody can try this for me Std. ;d, ;df ;d+ tornado kick into EX trap shot I think this will combo.
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j.D instant overhead?
Is c.C cancellable? c.D?
What else will connect after hcb+D? Hopefully a cancellable normal for reset into meaty fireball.
Can you activate off a naked df+D?
Is s.CD cancellable into df+D on hit or whiff?
Any air normals cancellabe? If so, will a fireball combo from it?
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j.D instant overhead?
Is c.C cancellable? c.D?
What else will connect after hcb+D? Hopefully a cancellable normal for reset into meaty fireball.
Can you activate off a naked df+D?
Is s.CD cancellable into df+D on hit or whiff?
Any air normals cancellabe? If so, will a fireball combo from it?
I've seen a Std. ;c connect after tornado kick as a juggle.
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King looks really fun to play in XIII, her run speed is much faster than you'd expect too
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What else will connect after hcb+D? Hopefully a cancellable normal for reset into meaty fireball.
hcb+D can be combo'd into midair Venom Strike (DC) and trap shot in the corner(also DC), Ex trap shot possibly can be combo'd after as well without a DC.
normals so far only s. ;c seems to connect.
as for the rest of your questions, I'd like some answers to them as well.
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EDIT: Moved to the top, thanks! -Kane317
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Is c.C cancellable? c.D?
Mook says yes to both.
Can you activate off a naked df+D?
Technically no, but Madman says if you empty cancel into the df.D, it'll work (Cool!).
EDIT: Just tested it with d.A (empty cancel) into df.D.
Is s.CD cancellable into df+D on hit or whiff?
s.CD is cancelable. I've noticed in XIII that if the normal cancels, it'll empty cancel (like the s.CDs have always have) e.g. Kensou s.D (empty cancel) --> qcb+P
Any air normals cancellabe? If so, will a fireball combo from it?
j.A and j.C are cancelable, haven't tested it but logically it has to otherwise they wouldn't make it cancelable.
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2 Useful King Videos provided by Madman's Cafe (via MMCstation on Youtube):
--Kombo King: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JMOw-sSzLk
--EX Venom Strike Showcase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYNMPIyhR3A
And in the realm of what NOT to do with King:
--EpicFailz with Venom Shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c6dW2FQDz8
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I seen lot of people losing with King in a very poor way just because they try to use zoning and they end on the corner, and KO. I think King players should start to find King's offensive key
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That vid isn't an indication of anything, he plain sucks with her.
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Looking this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M93SCIl_wCU
(Orochinagi has been trying out the game on Paris this weekend) I think try to play King as zoning character in KOF XIII is a fatal error. Looks like zoning is not a good strategy in KOF XIII (and I'm glad for it, I hate spaming fireballs gameplays) and I seen lot of people losing with King in a very poor way just because they try to use zoning and they end on the corner, and KO. I think King players should start to find King's offensive key
the problem is, it's somewhat difficult to start pressure with king. because she doesn't have her old command throw thing (similar to robert's) or a ground overhead, her only real mixup comes from jump-ins (empty jump lows/j.D/deep j.D crossup) or tick throws. she doesn't have any untechable knockdowns besides her throw, and that still doesn't leave her in a good position. coupled with the fact that to do decent damage she needs meter and usually the corner, you'll find that most of the time you're hoping the opponent will leave themselves open so you can punish with either lights into the slide or a s.D into whatever. i do agree though that a king player should learn to be more offensively oriented since she doesn't really have good defensive options. you just have to realize that she has a hard time getting in on opponents to start offense, and even if she does, how much damage you do might be situational.
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True, but I think it's a good vid to see zoning is not a good tool in KOF XIII and King needs to played in a more offensive way
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I think you're missing the point of King.
Her lack of offensive options definitely hurt her, but her ability to zone is basically what she has to make up for it. If she's low on bars, or (heaven forbid) she's your first character, her best option is to try to keep the opponent away, play it safe, and hope they make some mistakes. Once she's built up some bar, King can afford to play more aggressively, since she then has Surprise Rose or EX Tornado Kick to get her out of trouble.
Yes, zoning is a challenge in KOF, and especially in XIII. But that's what King is good at. It's also what makes her fun, and unique among the XIII roster.
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If she's low on bars, or (heaven forbid) she's your first character, her best option is to try to keep the opponent away, play it safe, and hope they make some mistakes.
i agree with this. when you're spacing out the opponent, a venom strike can sometimes be a good test to see if an opponent will commit to something that's punishable (jump/roll/EX move/etc). the problem with players i've seen in videos, and even myself occasionally is reliance on it by throwing venom strikes all over the place. pretty soon it becomes apparent that you'll overestimate the recovery and get punished by a beastly HD combo. if by chance you're still alive, you're probably in the corner where king definitely doesn't want to be defensively.
zoning definitely isn't a tool you want to overuse, but like rex dart said, it's definitely a tool worth using given the right situation. in some matchups (like vs clark/goro), it can be advantageous to play in midfield and keep them out to force mistakes. it's all about finding a good balance and when to appropriately switch your tactics. then again, that can be said of all characters.
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I'll add to that that zoning defensively all the time makes it too predictable. I think one can still zone their opponent and go offensively when the opportunity presents itself (See Ash, Mai, Orochi Shermie in the older ones, who I used a lot, and so forth).
All in all, that was their first day in Paris (which if I recall when I went was a 2 hour train ride from the UK), cut them some slack; we all sucked our first day.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89ELWLDV_1U
Better video of zoning King. Shiranui_Ninja: Never use such a poor video as that to reach the conclusion of anything. Horrible gameplay.
Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEoq9cDhKBc
Pretty nice King
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Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEoq9cDhKBc
Pretty nice King
i guess to be constructive, i'll say there were a few things i didn't like about that king.
during the round with mai, i found the midscreen HD activation fairly unnecessary. king, in general, doesn't do well dealing midscreen damage combos. if anything, she should have omitted the slide after the s.D following the HD activation and done a trapshot > tornado kick B > tornado kick D at the minimum. it's basically free damage and it gets the opponent closer to the corner. luckily, due to the duration of HD, she was able to catch mai in the corner again. however, she should have ended it with surprise rose after the tornado kick. at first, i thought it might have been a good idea to keep mai close and continue pressure, but what did king do? she jumped back and did EX venom strike =/ . gauging the flow of the match, she was never really put on the defensive in the first place. i think she would have been fine with the surprise rose corner ender. king doesn't need to zone when she's on the offensive, it's more for spacing/defense.
the round with leona i don't really have any complaints about. she pressured king decently, and i didn't see king make any standout mistakes since she didn't have meter to be spending. king just got outplayed.
in the shen round, king was sitting on so much meter and she was up by such a large life lead. i'm not quite sure if EX surprise rose would have won the match at that point but it would have helped immensely. at first i just thought it was negligence, but after watching it again, i saw a c.D which leads me to believe they just messed up the input. then, with all that meter, she could have EX trapshot/tornado kick one of those jump-ins or even guard AB/CD. instead, she ended up getting pressured and eating an HD combo to lose by timeout. when king has the meter, by all means, use it when you're on offense for that damage or save it for defense to get you out of situations king has a hard time getting out of. don't just sit on it (unless, of course, king is being a battery for you).
i'm not saying that this was a bad king player, just a decent one. my opinion is that maybe that player had recently picked her up. it's good to analyze how the little mistakes will cost you the match (more specifically in king's case this time). there's not much king footage, or even well-played king, so i always like to see what i can pickup or what mistakes to avoid when using her.
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Shiranui_Ninja: Never use such a poor video as that to reach the conclusion of anything. Horrible gameplay.
Video removed.
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Most of the template is up now, anyone gonna finish what they started or should I wipe the slate clean?
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Wipe the slate clean? I don't see any reason to do that.
I mean, there's no problem with some pages being collaborative efforts, is there?
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I mean, there's no problem with some pages being collaborative efforts, is there?
None at all, I just didn't want to step on any toes so I asked the dude who started if he wanted to finish.
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King has boobs that jiggle? o_0
anyway dissapointed that their is no Illusion dance. oh well still going to use her
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If somebody can try this for me Std. ;d, ;df ;d+ tornado kick into EX trap shot I think this will combo.
i can confirm that this does work. you have you perform the tornado kick near the end of the slide, otherwise the EX trap shot will whiff. this is actually a starter for her HD wallcarry combo.
j.D instant overhead?
What else will connect after hcb+D? Hopefully a cancellable normal for reset into meaty fireball.
Can you activate off a naked df+D?
j.D does not work as an instant overhead. the start up is too slow. by the time it comes out, you're already above the opponents hitbox (though i havent tested it on raiden).
as far as i know, the only thing that'll connect after hcb+D is a DC venom strike, a DC EX venom strike after the 1st hit, or an EX surprise rose after the corner.
if by activation you mean HD activate, then yes, you can activate off a standalone df.D. seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H71OShpHQMk#t=05m25s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H71OShpHQMk#t=05m25s)
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Question (mostly for Fatacon):
Why did you write all King's combos on the Wiki as starting with cr. C? I always start my combos with cr. B -> cr. A, or st. B / D. Does cr. C have some benefit that I'm missing?
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i practically transcribed the combo section from the JP wiki since it overlapped with a lot of my own combos. they listed every combo starting with c.C cause it does the highest damage. if you think about it, cr.C does 70 pts of damage, while cl.D does 40+45 pts of damage. you'd probably think, "hey cl.D does 15 more pts of damage!", but because cl.D is 2 hits, it affects the scaling of the rest of the combo (at least JP wiki denotes so). i'm sure the difference is very minimal. i agree with you though, for ease of use, i also use cr.B> cr.A. cr.C is definitely not practical as a combo starter. i did, of course, add that combo starter section so i hope people reading the wiki definitely don't take cr.C as the staple starter. maybe i'll change that in the future.
also, the JP wiki notes that HD combos do more damage if you use far C or far D, but i find that kind of hard to do in actual matches lol
did you want me to put up the wallcarry combos?
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what about her standing close ;d, i always thought it was a good combo starter.
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it still is
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but because cl.D is 2 hits, it affects the scaling of the rest of the combo (at least JP wiki denotes so).
Wasn't there a guide that said multiple hits in the same move doesn't affect damage scaling? Unlike before, the second hit of Tornado Kick isn't subject to damage scaling if the first one hits. Perhaps Close D would work the same?
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but because cl.D is 2 hits, it affects the scaling of the rest of the combo (at least JP wiki denotes so).
Wasn't there a guide that said multiple hits in the same move doesn't affect damage scaling? Unlike before, the second hit of Tornado Kick isn't subject to damage scaling if the first one hits. Perhaps Close D would work the same?
False. e.g Leona's s.D is listed as 40.40 but it does 78 damage in training mode.
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This post is very irrelevant, but I still ask, Why is called tornado kick 95? xD
I mean, this version has been on almost all the kofs, including the last ones (I can't recall XI, but im sure that there happens too) and the AOF series too
The only games with the vertical tornado kick are from 96 to 99, and even in 99, they put both version of the tornado kick, so yeah, I know that is stupid and that I think that even SNKP named the move like that, but still, from the this is the tornado kick and the other one should be called tornado kick 96 or other thing like that
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That's exactly the reason why it's called Tornado Kick '95. I guess it's just the most popular "version" in Japan as they would all remember it as the Tornado Kick from KoF '95 and not in AoF or XI.
Edit: It would seem that '95 was also the first version of Tornado kick where she only kicks once in the B version. Makes it easier to differentiate other versions of Tornado Kicks as well. The original Tornado Kick has her kick twice.
AoF2: Original
KoF 94: Original
KoF 95: 95
KoF 96-98: 96
KoF 99: Original + 96
CVS: Original
KoF 2000 - XIII: 95
KoF 98 UM (normal version): 96
KoF 98 UM (EX version): (I don't remember)
KoF 2002 UM: 95
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Edit: It would seem that '95 was also the first version of Tornado kick where she only kicks once in the B version. Makes it easier to differentiate other versions of Tornado Kicks as well. The original Tornado Kick has her kick twice.
in XIII, the B version of tornado kick normally hits twice. the only exceptions to this are if 1) the opponent is crouching (or crouch blocking, i forget which) 2) was done as an anti-air or 3) hits with the tip. in these cases, the B version only hits once.
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combo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B84WI9Yuxkc
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combo vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B84WI9Yuxkc
i really liked the first few combos i never thought of using double strike to wallcarry. that's pretty hype. the current way of using ex trapshots and ex tornado kicks uses meter anyway and doesn't do quite as much damage. i should add these to the wiki page and fill in damages once i test them out. thanks for the link shiranui_ninja!
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King combo demostration from snkgameHK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IDL7RY-yQk
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hey guys,
i was in training mode, and recently noticed that while in HD mode, king's d+f D is special cancellable outside of combos. meaning, she can do the slide into whatever just by itself. does HD mode affect command normals like this, or is this something specific to king's slide?
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No, there are other characters that do that. For example, Terry Bogard's forward A doesn't cancel normally, but in HD mode, you can cancel out of it into a special move.
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hey guys,
i was in training mode, and recently noticed that while in HD mode, king's d+f D is special cancellable outside of combos. meaning, she can do the slide into whatever just by itself. does HD mode affect command normals like this, or is this something specific to king's slide?
HD makes almost all non-cancelable normals and command moves, cancelable. There are a few exceptions like Yuri's air.df+B and that maybe limited to the fact that she lands already as oppose to it not canceling at all. Duo Lon has the same problem, all his aerial normals cancel except j.D, but only j.B truly combos into air.f+B because by the time it comes out he'll have landed.
On that note, don't forget King can always empty-cancel a normal (like s.B, d.A etc...), outside of HD, into df.D which will actually make the slide cancelable because you cancelled into it.
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King is getting hella buffs on console!!
In the EVO build, King's df D slide move is cancel-able on hit or block! you get free slide into venom strike all the time! really really huge buff. if you're near the corner, you can slide into your corner combo! makes her really scary at mid range. people are gonna be blocking low a lot now lol
also, her neomax doesn't suck ass anymore! they buffed the range so that all the fireballs go all over the place.
GET HYPE FOR KING!!!
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King is getting hella buffs on console!!
In the EVO build, King's df D slide move is cancel-able on hit or block! you get free slide into venom strike all the time! really really huge buff. if you're near the corner, you can slide into your corner combo! makes her really scary at mid range. people are gonna be blocking low a lot now lol
also, her neomax doesn't suck ass anymore! they buffed the range so that all the fireballs go all over the place.
GET HYPE FOR KING!!!
Thanks for the info.
I am definatelly happy, cause she is one of my main characters.
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I've been playing with her for only a few minutes and I love her alreaaaady! :">
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In the EVO build, King's df D slide move is cancel-able on hit or block! you get free slide into venom strike all the time! really really huge buff. if you're near the corner, you can slide into your corner combo! makes her really scary at mid range. people are gonna be blocking low a lot now lol
If you make a stnad A whiff cancel slide you can special cancel the slide in guard or whiff
so it's not a buff that useful
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i would argue that the buff is VERY useful, because you don't have to whiff cancel anything now. you can ON REACTION slide under fireball for a BnB combo. this is a very big buff if you ask me.
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i would argue that the buff is VERY useful, because you don't have to whiff cancel anything now. you can ON REACTION slide under fireball for a BnB combo. this is a very big buff if you ask me.
you can cancel the whole animation of the stand A, it's just a little manipulation which disappear for king players
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i would argue that the buff is VERY useful, because you don't have to whiff cancel anything now. you can ON REACTION slide under fireball for a BnB combo. this is a very big buff if you ask me.
you can cancel the whole animation of the stand A, it's just a little manipulation which disappear for king players
I'm going to agree with Sharnt on this one Dkong. It helps, but it's not that big of a deal since there were ways around it like mentioned before. The extra frame of s.A being canceled is so quick it's negligible, especially if you're trying to master King as a characters--it's just one of the things you learn for her.
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oh wow i was not aware that the entire animation could be canceled. i stand corrected -_-
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semi off topic, but in older kof, I could NEVER cancel ;df ;d into anything, except maybe 1 time
Is the timing that tricky? here is still hard to cancel?
I'm sure to had seen some times the move being canceled but who knows
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semi off topic, but in older kof, I could NEVER cancel ;df ;d into anything, except maybe 1 time
Is the timing that tricky? here is still hard to cancel?
I'm sure to had seen some times the move being canceled but who knows
In the old ones, I believe '02, you had to cancel into the df.D and delay cancelling out of the move for anything to connect.
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i find it a little sad that king bnb is almost like hwa but shes more safer because of the venom strike and yet i with she had her qcb A or C
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sorry if I'm going to ask some of these questions on some of the characters because I'm having a hard time and I would like to know how to deal/get around it. I main K, Kula and Kyo.
Against King
what is it that King should do to get a hit on me?
What situations/setup that I should get king into?
How do I deal with her down+B?
Thank you
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Two things you should know about her that are important:
1.She can switch between aggro and zoning, but is mainly a zoning character.
2.Do not mash against King.
Starting with the first point, she is a zoning character and is very, very good at keeping you out as well as rushing you down. The first thing you need to do is always keep in mid to close range. As much as King is an unequipped character, her fireball is a very versatile move and can hurt a lot.
This is pretty basic, but you should try to hop a bit more. Aside from her EX Trapshoot, she's very vulnerable to air unless she's in the air. This is why being close to her is good. If she jumps, you can standing A her before she gets a fireball off. You want to constantly pressure her into making mistakes. You can punish practically anything she does at close range, none of her moves are safe, but at a distance and good spacing, she can cause a lot of problems. This solves your problem with d.B because if you apply hop pressure, you'll avoid her d.B all together.
My second point is not to mash against her. You have to take it slow because she does have reversals, namely her EX trapshoot. It is fast and will catch you if you hop at her, spam low kicks on her wake up or generally whiff a slow move near her. You want to take it slow. Make her make mistakes, tick throw, and what not. Remember that she can get a combo off from her st. D or d.B, but she has to combo her df+D in order to combo so always remember to block low. In arcade version, she can't cancel df+D by itself alone and blocking her whole string up close is good. Tornado kick is not safe on block if she is close up so punish it. A fast poke will get her if she does venom strike.
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sorry if I'm going to ask some of these questions on some of the characters because I'm having a hard time and I would like to know how to deal/get around it. I main K, Kula and Kyo.
Against King
what is it that King should do to get a hit on me?
What situations/setup that I should get king into?
How do I deal with her down+B?
Thank you
man if thats ur team you really dont have to much of a problem. i aint as good as most people on hear but here is what i can tell ya from what i know.
1 king would mostly stay on the outside and build meter with her venom strike and also like athena she can and will (maybe) run after you while the strike is still coming at you which can mess you up but with the characters u use imo u may not have much trouble also she can play a very good inside game with her ;df ;d but her options after that aint all that strong if you block but she is safe anyways since you have K u can smack away her strikes and send 1 her way
2 always in the corner not much to say there
3 just keep it safe and block and if u feel like you know there going to do it hop and get a combo
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Two things you should know about her that are important:
1.She can switch between aggro and zoning, but is mainly a zoning character.
2.Do not mash against King.
Starting with the first point, she is a zoning character and is very, very good at keeping you out as well as rushing you down. The first thing you need to do is always keep in mid to close range. As much as King is an unequipped character, her fireball is a very versatile move and can hurt a lot.
This is pretty basic, but you should try to hop a bit more. Aside from her EX Trapshoot, she's very vulnerable to air unless she's in the air. This is why being close to her is good. If she jumps, you can standing A her before she gets a fireball off. You want to constantly pressure her into making mistakes. You can punish practically anything she does at close range, none of her moves are safe, but at a distance and good spacing, she can cause a lot of problems. This solves your problem with d.B because if you apply hop pressure, you'll avoid her d.B all together.
My second point is not to mash against her. You have to take it slow because she does have reversals, namely her EX trapshoot. It is fast and will catch you if you hop at her, spam low kicks on her wake up or generally whiff a slow move near her. You want to take it slow. Make her make mistakes, tick throw, and what not. Remember that she can get a combo off from her st. D or d.B, but she has to combo her df+D in order to combo so always remember to block low. In arcade version, she can't cancel df+D by itself alone and blocking her whole string up close is good. Tornado kick is not safe on block if she is close up so punish it. A fast poke will get her if she does venom strike.
also want to add to that her tornado kick is a really good anti air so be care full when you jump or even hop
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Remember that she can get a combo off from her st. D or d.B, but she has to combo her df+D in order to combo so always remember to block low.
I would be careful with this. King can break her d.B>d.A chain into a hop j.D, which has a great hitbox for cross-ups.
king would mostly stay on the outside and build meter with her venom strike and also like athena she can and will (maybe) run after you while the strike is still coming at
I think it's a big misconception that she builds a lot of meter spamming venom strikes. They either have to hit or be blocked by the opponent to gain meter.
Using venom strikes to bait movement is also a big part of her neutral game. If she does a full screen B ver. venom strike, it's slow enough where the opponent will usually feel compelled to make a decision. Outside of blocking or negating it, most opponents will roll through or jump over it, which lead into punishes for King.
also want to add to that her tornado kick is a really good anti air so be care full when you jump or even hop
Tornado Kick is actually a really poor anti-air, tbh. Even if you used the aforementioned Venom Strike jump trap, a close jump doesn't always lose to B ver. Tornado Kick, nor does a far jump always lose to a D ver. Tornado Kick. Sometimes it trades or outright loses. Often times it hits cleanly because an opponent was caught off guard or didn't time their jump normal properly to stuff out the Tornado Kick. Even EX Tornado Kick, which is invincible to projectiles, will get stuffed by a well-timed jump normal.
Her only reliable anti-airs are EX Trap Shot and c.C. Even then, c.C isn't as abusable as other characters' c.C. It doesn't have a huge vertical hitbox, it simply lowers King's hurtbox. It's a very slow normal so it's more anticipatory rather than reaction based.
Other than that, the info that Reiki and bigvador posted about getting in her face is pretty much the gist of what you should be doing against King. Including EX Trap Shot, King has to spend meter (using GC options) to get out of high pressure situations. Once she's in the corner, even EX Trap Shot becomes a risky reversal, as it doesn't push back the opponent on block. Use that to your advantage and bait it out for a big punish.
There's one other anti-King trick that I have yet to test, since there are hardly any King players, atm. However, as a long-standing King player, I'm not telling ;)
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Side note, I heard that Reynald, John and Ricardo has picked up King at AA as at least secondary characters. Seems like they have been inspired by the way Bala used King in Evo/ReveLAtions. Let's hope we can get their input on King too.
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also want to add to that her tornado kick is a really good anti air so be care full when you jump or even hop
Tornado Kick is actually a really poor anti-air, tbh. Even if you used the aforementioned Venom Strike jump trap, a close jump doesn't always lose to B ver. Tornado Kick, nor does a far jump always lose to a D ver. Tornado Kick. Sometimes it trades or outright loses. Often times it hits cleanly because an opponent was caught off guard or didn't time their jump normal properly to stuff out the Tornado Kick. Even EX Tornado Kick, which is invincible to projectiles, will get stuffed by a well-timed jump normal.
There's one other anti-King trick that I have yet to test, since there are hardly any King players, atm. However, as a long-standing King player, I'm not telling ;)
Im not to sure on that i do have to agree that she can get hit out of her tornado kick it still is use as a anti air but only with the second hit. i have tested this (not as well as i wanted to) and it do work most of the time without gettin stuffed nor trading hits. with the close jump over the strike u should use D ver depending on the distance but would want to use it as a poke (at least thats what i do) so that way you can create a lil distance. im not a huge king player but i think i know a little somethin somethin with her.
as for you extra anti air in all i count she has about 5 anti airs and a extra 3 with her specials so if im missin 1 tell me if im worng :)
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as for you extra anti air in all i count she has about 5 anti airs and a extra 3 with her specials so if im missin 1 tell me if im worng :)
I'm not quite sure how she has that many anti-airs, at least not reliable ones anyway. Not counting her Tornado Kick (because I still don't buy that one), EX Trap Shot, and c.C, her other anti-airs are situational at best. Close s.C will counter a high jump along the wall when King is cornered and far s.D works on floaty jumps or preemptively vs hops. Remember, I didn't say that they couldn't be used as anti-airs, I just don't feel they are very reliable/useful.
Which moves/normals do you think could be used as anti-airs?
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st A works just mash the hell outta it somebody did that to me and it always stop me (except 4 when i use rolf)
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s.A is a standard counter to hops that's universal to pretty much any character. Any that are King specific that I haven't mentioned?
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it still count but jump B i think it was and maybe jump A and C but i find that it kinda works if only u jump back so they can hit the hitbox but thats all i can think of and tornado kick im tellin just give it a few more test runs as a poke and then you may be able to count it
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I don't generally include air-to-airs as part of anti-airs, but in that case j.B and j.CD work best.
I still strongly advise against Tornado Kick as an anti-air. I can tell you from about a year's worth of experience with XIII King that it is fairly unreliable. Believe me when I say I wish she had more solid meterless anti-air options, but she currently does not. I didn't get to test too extensively with her console counterpart, but if I remember correctly, she's still lacking in that department.
Regardless, gameplay discussion is always good. I'm seeing a lot of newcomers looking forward to picking non-standard (read: high-tier) characters, and King has always been a pretty popular character.
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well she is basic and her specials are pretty solid
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Hey fellow king players! just thought i'd roll in here with some (hopefully) new technology!!
so check it, you know how you have to be near the corner to do her basic HD combo loop, right? well, i found a way to get into the loop from much further away (up to around 70% of the entire stage away from the corner when you start the combo)
basically, what i found is that AT POINT BLANK RANGE, stand B, slide, into B tornado kick will let you follow up with EX trap shot every time. at first, this doesn't seem very useful, since it costs meter for little damage, and plus you have to be literally right next to your opponent otherwise EX trap shot will whiff.
BUT, if you land any close standing C or D, you can activate HD into stand B, which will hit at point blank range. you can then follow up with, slide, B tornado kick, EX trap shot, HD cancel B tornado kick, and hopefully at this point you'll be in the corner, so you can follow with regular trap shot, loop, finish the combo.
so yeah, now king can land her HD combo, for 1 extra meter, from like a long ass distance from the corner. very situational, but useful imo.
there is something weird about this though, and i hope someone can answer my question. king players will know that in the corner, at the end of her basic HD combo, you can do B tornado kick, D tornado kick, then EX surprise rose. for some reason however, if you cancel from EX trap shot, then do B tornado kick, D tornado kick, EX surprise rose will whiff every time. any idea why this happens? thanks all!
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http://www.twitch.tv/exdragonproject/b/298664121 (http://www.twitch.tv/exdragonproject/b/298664121)
01:52:50 - King lands her command slide, then a delayed far C still connects for a combo...like, really delayed
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It was a pretty deep slide (opponent landed in it), but yeah, that was definitely a combo! May be useful as a trick on wakeup / anti air to potentially lands HD? And I'm guessing her far ;c isn't cancellable... maybe Far ;a into a Tornado kick (EX) or something, for a nice combo option?
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First page updated with console changes.
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Console changes:
- (shown in video) Jump D stays out longer
- (shown in video) close C has faster startup
- (shown in video) D Venom Strike (air) has a smaller recoil
- far D has less lag
- (shown in video) Slide can be cancelled without being cancelled into
Yamamoto – We focused on her normals mainly. Although the number of changes are few, it will change gameplay significantly as normals are used most often. Her slide is a great low move and since her close HP {s.C} isn’t affected by scaling easily, please us it often as a combo starter.
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I'm loving how console king can combo from her 3d on it's own. It seems minor, but it means a big deal to me and helps the character a lot in my opinion.
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Is it me, or does King have the easiest HD combos in the game?
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yea she really only uses 2 moves
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My current team is Kensou/Maxima/King. I was wondering..is King best suited for later game? (2nd or 3rd character)
Bala runs King on point and sees success so I was curious as to what the community thought.
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Imo King/Kensou/Maxima suits the best to your team.
Because if king is better with meter i think the other character are even better than her with meter. Especially because meter gives solutions to your opponent against your zoning, like break rolls, ex moves or SDM.
For Kensou it's roughly the same but meter is far more powerful for him than king, it allows him to use a 1 frame throw to punish is opponent, better mixup, better zoning, far more damaging combos. Thus Kensou is really good in second position.
At least Maxima is an amazing threat with loads of meter. Using Kensou as a semi battery character will make him like a huge wall which don't allows anything to pass. Moreover because of the nature of Maxima at each guard opening you must do the more damages possible, and to have a lot of meter helps a lot to do that. Btw his ex moves are really really good to go forward or to pressure your opponent.
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Thanks for the reply. I'm liking King on point alot! When I think of an anchor, I think of a character that can REALLY utilize all that bar and translate any hit into good damage. King's HD combos are distance specific and she has very few ways to open up opponents. For these reasons I'm probably going to play her in 1st position.
The only problem is I'm unsure of Maxima as an anchor: he's a big target and fairly slow (hard to keep up with other good anchors Shen/Iori/Kyo). I've always thought he was better in 2nd position.
New ideas:
King/Maxima/Iori or Kim
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Is it me, or does King have the easiest HD combos in the game?
meterless too, really good for my metagame, king is truly a solid battery character imho. lacks only of damaging combo because her trap shot scaling always toooooo much (and now, i truly understand in the change log why the benimaru collider less hit means for a combo damage output).
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All signs point to King being best on point. That's probably where I'll be keeping her. :)
Is anyone else having trouble hitting HCB B, st.B after her BnBs midscreen? st.C is cake, but B is pretty tough.
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Is anyone else having trouble hitting HCB B, st.B after her BnBs midscreen? st.C is cake, but B is pretty tough.
Just hold forward and hit B. Presto!
Also, ever since arcade, I still stand by her not being on point. I feel like she loses a lot of options without meter and her damage output without meter is also pretty subpar. She doesn't particularly build meter well, either.
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All signs point to King being best on point. That's probably where I'll be keeping her. :)
Is anyone else having trouble hitting HCB B, st.B after her BnBs midscreen? st.C is cake, but B is pretty tough.
keep in mind is very fast and have a great range so take ur time without hurry is pretty easy
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Is anyone else having trouble hitting HCB B, st.B after her BnBs midscreen? st.C is cake, but B is pretty tough.
Just hold forward and hit B. Presto!
Also, ever since arcade, I still stand by her not being on point. I feel like she loses a lot of options without meter and her damage output without meter is also, pretty subpar. She doesn't particularly build meter well, either.
I'll give it a try, thanks.
On my team at least (Kensou/Maxima), both my other characters are better with bar than King is. By process of elimination she is point. Besides that, she can actually hold her own there. People can't use bar to escape Venom Strike pressure, so spamming it is harder to fight against. Damage isn't really an issue if she's on point either, seeing as most good point characters have subpar damage too. Their strategy doesn't revolve around damage or meter usage. She does her job well...which is to slowly chip away at your opponents life bar, poke efficiently, control space with well-placed ground/air venom strikes, and use DRIVE meter to do combos. At most you should use one bar to combo and half a DC for punishes, maybe two if it will kill. IMO she's right at home on point.
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On my team at least (Kensou/Maxima), both my other characters are better with bar than King is. By process of elimination she is point. Besides that, she can actually hold her own there. People can't use bar to escape Venom Strike pressure, so spamming it is harder to fight against. Damage isn't really an issue if she's on point either, seeing as most good point characters have subpar damage too. Their strategy doesn't revolve around damage or meter usage. She does her job well...which is to slowly chip away at your opponents life bar, poke efficiently, control space with well-placed ground/air venom strikes, and use DRIVE meter to do combos. At most you should use one bar to combo and half a DC for punishes, maybe two if it will kill. IMO she's right at home on point.
Though they are better than King with meter, Kensou is by far a better battery character. He has a much safer zoning game. Keep in mind that projectile zoning in general isn't as strong in KOF as it is in other fighting games, thanks to overall system mechanics. Because of this, King has a hard time zoning against wary opponents and she is very vulnerable unless actively baiting particular situations in her favor. Coupled with the fact that her normals are relatively slow startup and low priority, she has a hard time mounting an offense at times without exploiting meter. Against strong, viable point characters like K' or Kyo, who have heavy rushdown games, without a proper reversal, King can get easily locked down for the duration of the match if she doesn't have meter to get out safely.
I think people are falling into this pitfall believing that teams require a battery character on point that doesn't necessarily use meter. A point character can be self-sustaining. However, if it works for you, then it works for you. Just stay mindful of the inherent risks involved with playing King with little to no meter. It's pretty scary when you're backed into a corner as King and you have no answer to pressure.
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Is anyone else having trouble hitting HCB B, st.B after her BnBs midscreen? st.C is cake, but B is pretty tough.
Just hold forward and hit B. Presto!
Also, ever since arcade, I still stand by her not being on point. I feel like she loses a lot of options without meter and her damage output without meter is also, pretty subpar. She doesn't particularly build meter well, either.
I'll give it a try, thanks.
On my team at least (Kensou/Maxima), both my other characters are better with bar than King is. By process of elimination she is point. Besides that, she can actually hold her own there. People can't use bar to escape Venom Strike pressure, so spamming it is harder to fight against. Damage isn't really an issue if she's on point either, seeing as most good point characters have subpar damage too. Their strategy doesn't revolve around damage or meter usage. She does her job well...which is to slowly chip away at your opponents life bar, poke efficiently, control space with well-placed ground/air venom strikes, and use DRIVE meter to do combos. At most you should use one bar to combo and half a DC for punishes, maybe two if it will kill. IMO she's right at home on point.
considering ur team i would suggest to put her on point too.and agree with most of the things u said even if some of what answer said has sense too, in this case she would fit better on point imo. she is good in spacing and pokes and she could turn into a rushdown at the end of the first match or depending on the situation and how the match goes. cons is probably u ll not have lots of meter for ur 2nd character but bala teaches : who fuckin cares she can be a beast in any position !
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instant errata corrige .... dunno cause i wrote answer instead of fatacon ... maybe im reading too much things at the same time !
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n00b alert, i'm missing what on point refer for -.-,? hint please.
Coupled with the fact that her normals are relatively slow startup and low priority, she has a hard time mounting an offense at times without exploiting meter. Against strong, viable point characters like K' or Kyo, who have heavy rushdown games, without a proper reversal, King can get easily locked down for the duration of the match if she doesn't have meter to get out safely.
totally disagree with that... ok now... almost xD i mean, i still didn't face a real good Kyo/K' player but i sense her normal really good to handle a rushdown situation, s.C is an awesome poke, beat/trade with hop and have nice hitbox and active frame, c.C work well to to catch floaty jump, if they get close the s.B is fast and hit low and can hitconfirm into slide, and if you miss too and the opponent guard you can cancel the slide for be safe... about that too the console change is gorgeous, on mid range i use the slide as a poke (hitconfirm hcb.b if catch off guard).
agree with the "hard living" zoning fireball wars, not good as athena/kensou but imho is a right deal, you can by the way manage the screen very well with all the option (and sometimes them are too much... i usually input the TK motion on hyperhopping D and pullout TK strikes for error -.-, the recoil is nice in that case). in desperation moment of course she can sacrifice one meter for trap shot ex, work well as a "reversal", isn't really fast like ryo as a example but still usable.
these with one very easy HD combo withour meter (and about that low damage of course, but is still more than half guage lol) seems to me really good to use as a battery, preserve the meter for super the middle one.
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On my team at least (Kensou/Maxima), both my other characters are better with bar than King is. By process of elimination she is point. Besides that, she can actually hold her own there. People can't use bar to escape Venom Strike pressure, so spamming it is harder to fight against. Damage isn't really an issue if she's on point either, seeing as most good point characters have subpar damage too. Their strategy doesn't revolve around damage or meter usage. She does her job well...which is to slowly chip away at your opponents life bar, poke efficiently, control space with well-placed ground/air venom strikes, and use DRIVE meter to do combos. At most you should use one bar to combo and half a DC for punishes, maybe two if it will kill. IMO she's right at home on point.
Though they are better than King with meter, Kensou is by far a better battery character. He has a much safer zoning game. Keep in mind that projectile zoning in general isn't as strong in KOF as it is in other fighting games, thanks to overall system mechanics. Because of this, King has a hard time zoning against wary opponents and she is very vulnerable unless actively baiting particular situations in her favor. Coupled with the fact that her normals are relatively slow startup and low priority, she has a hard time mounting an offense at times without exploiting meter. Against strong, viable point characters like K' or Kyo, who have heavy rushdown games, without a proper reversal, King can get easily locked down for the duration of the match if she doesn't have meter to get out safely.
I think people are falling into this pitfall believing that teams require a battery character on point that doesn't necessarily use meter. A point character can be self-sustaining. However, if it works for you, then it works for you. Just stay mindful of the inherent risks involved with playing King with little to no meter. It's pretty scary when you're backed into a corner as King and you have no answer to pressure.
i agree with most of what you posted. However for my team, using Kensou as a battery serves no real purpose. Why would I try to give King meter on second, when Kensou is so much better when he has it himself? Granted, Kensou is better than King in both positions...but hear me out. King's metered combos are usually spacing specific, with corner positioning being a prerequisite for the better ones. Kensou has more ways to land a hit, and more damage per combo if he does - regardless of where he is. In fact most of his combos carry to the corner, which can lead to even more potential hits.
Her normals being "slow" on start-up is an exaggeration. st.C is pretty damn fast, and active for quite a while. Most AAs have to be pre-emptive anyways (aside from anti-hop st.As), so that's nothing new. If anything she has an easier time than most AAing with st.C / st. D/ hop j.B / hop j.CD because of her amazing ground/air fireballs. Once you condition your opponent to look for a specific fireball, you can steal bits of their life by cutting off their movement routes with your AAs. I think you're underestimating how good her neutral game is.
Mounting an offense using meter isn't what King is about. She's not equipped to bumrush in ala K' / Kyo / Kula and fish for hit confirms into big damage for little to no bar. Her offense is, by nature, not as good as most characters (with or without meter)...so imo this point is negligible.
Regarding her defense. I got nothin' LOL. I agree, she's can't do shit about people rushing her down unless she has meter.
I'm completely aware that some characters can be self-sustaining on point. But MY strategy is to save the bar for Kensou who will translate any st.BC target combo confirm into half life. But again I agree with you on this, you don't HAVE to save meter with your point character.
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A much simpler question after all this discussion, but I'm having trouble consistently comboing jump-ins into standing attacks. It seems like hitting around their thighs works most, but even that seems to only have around a 50/50 chance. Other times it seems to be about the stomach height that works most. Obviously hitting deep usually works, but in this case it's not such a certain thing, and I've comboed after hitting pretty shallow. So I guess the question is, what the heck? I don't think I've had this much trouble with this basic kind of thing in any other fighting game, possibly even other KOFs.
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A much simpler question after all this discussion, but I'm having trouble consistently comboing jump-ins into standing attacks. It seems like hitting around their thighs works most, but even that seems to only have around a 50/50 chance for. Other times it seems to be about the stomach height that works most. Obviously hitting deep usually works, but in this case it's not such a certain thing, and I've comboed after hitting pretty shallow. So I guess the quest is, what the heck? I don't think I've had this much trouble with this basic kind of thing in any other fighting game, possibly even other KOFs.
From what I understand they made it tougher to combo of jumpins in the console version of XIII. So yeah, you have to land your hit real deep to be able to combo.
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A much simpler question after all this discussion, but I'm having trouble consistently comboing jump-ins into standing attacks. It seems like hitting around their thighs works most, but even that seems to only have around a 50/50 chance. Other times it seems to be about the stomach height that works most. Obviously hitting deep usually works, but in this case it's not such a certain thing, and I've comboed after hitting pretty shallow. So I guess the question is, what the heck? I don't think I've had this much trouble with this basic kind of thing in any other fighting game, possibly even other KOFs.
Ways to land jump-ins more consistently with King+random notes:
***You're probably trying to combo into something like cl.D after you land a jump-in. Use cl.C instead. It's 3-4 frames faster and combos off even those really high jump-ins sometimes (due to its speed). I've started using it more and it works beautifully. If you're too far for cl.C use st.B->df+D.***
-Generally speaking, you have to hit at least shoulder height if you want to combo into anything. Higher than that...all you get is frame advantage -> something.
-Use j.C and j.D to start combos during hop pressure. j.C has shorter range than D, but she extends her hurtbox out less, so you beat things more and trade less. j.D has better horizontal range though, so things like j.D, st.B, df+D are better from farther away.
-j.A doesn't have as much hitstun as the aforementioned, it's pretty useless imo. j.B is for air-to-air so don't bother with it.
Beyond this stuff, it could be just timing/speed. Keep at it man.
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Thanks for the tips and advice, guys.
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So has anyone come up with any mix-ups off her corner throw? It having hard knockdown and all. So far I've just got her safe jump down. I really want some help with her mix-up game though.
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You cant really mix-up from her throw in the corner. Just do standard KOF knockdown stuff. You can't cross them up, and King has no overheads; mix-up is not exactly an area she excels in. I'd advise walking back and shooting a meaty Venom shot to restart pressure.
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If you need an example of what to do with King when you have the opponent in the corner, just watch the Answer's match against Banana Ken in Top 4 at NEC.
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It was so awesome to watch a high level King in action. She's my main...so I'm always looking for styles to draw from to further my game. His corner pressure was so on point. Didn't he OCV Bananaken with King at one point? Crazy!
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It was so awesome to watch a high level King in action. She's my main...so I'm always looking for styles to draw from to further my game. His corner pressure was so on point. Didn't he OCV Bananaken with King at one point? Crazy!
Yeah, game 2, just went out and wrecked him hard.
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can u guys link the top4 where answer plaied king ? or tell me where i can find it ?
thanks in advice
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http://ja.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/301709748 (http://ja.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/301709748)
starts at 1:25:00 gotcha from video thread ;)
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http://ja.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/301709748 (http://ja.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/301709748)
starts at 1:25:00 gotcha from video thread ;)
Absolute beast! Time to step our game up guys.
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http://ja.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/301709748 (http://ja.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/301709748)
starts at 1:25:00 gotcha from video thread ;)
grazie
che devastazione theanswer
what a blast. didnt know theanswer was using king
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yeah i like it too... i sense a little too much hurricane ex spam isn't it? imho indeed (occasionally he catch the jump to runaway the opponent with that, but it really the rest is a the exact way how the king have to be played... personally (of course, i main her too and my friends already hate me XD) i only lack an OVERHEAD... with that imho she will be really good (note i didn't ask for a command throw like into the ninety eheh) when i'm close, for mixup, i have to do neutral hyper hop C for enter in enemy defence when he know how good the low hitbox of st.B is (and follow with cr.C, df.D combo).
off topic:
saiki seems a BEAST :\ really afraid of him.