Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIV => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiaggo on December 12, 2015, 05:44:50 AM
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I posted this in the KOF reddit but also wanted to spark a discussion here.
I realize this topic has become a reoccurring criticism against KOF XIV and for good reason. Given the leaps in graphics we've seen in games such as SFV,MKX,DOA5,GGXrd and tekken 7 it would only be reasonable to single out any fighter that doesn't meet the standards set forth by any of these games. I will concede that KOF XIV's graphics fall short of any of these games and won't attempt to argue that they are not indeed dissapointing. In my opinion it is a valid criticism and given the stated intention from the people behind the game in wanting to make KOF the #1 fighter I can see why underwhelming graphics will be a struggle for fans and newcomers to overlook.
In saying this though I do have to draw attention to the extremist of this criticism who attempt to argue that the game is comparable to PSX era graphics. It's one thing to have a legitimate complaint but when you dial that complaint to such a ridiculous and exaggerated degree it removes all credibility and sincerity. If we're to be objective and removed of any bias either for or against the game, the game's graphics hovers around 360 era. To demonstrate this point I have compiled comparisons between KOF XIV and SF4. The KOF XIV images don't represent the completed product as we all know so regardless of how good the game will look upon completion we can at least be assured it will look better then the images provided here. Keep in mind I'm not attempting to argue that KOF VIX is graphically impressive or that it will look magnitudes better when completed. Instead I'm just saying the game is in no way shape or form a PSX or PS2 era title and can confidently be considered next gen even if it's by 360/PS3 standards.
http://postimg.org/image/lbqtsimrj/ (http://postimg.org/image/lbqtsimrj/) http://postimg.org/image/j5wiy0jb3/ (http://postimg.org/image/j5wiy0jb3/) http://postimg.org/image/976yxskhr/ (http://postimg.org/image/976yxskhr/) http://postimg.org/image/iqgnr97zz/ (http://postimg.org/image/iqgnr97zz/) http://postimg.org/image/icfbrnnwf/ (http://postimg.org/image/icfbrnnwf/)
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Someone sensible at last. That's PS3/X360 graphics, not PSX nor PS2. Laban even went as far as saying it looks PS4 in person, but I don't wanna get so optimistic. SFIV models just have flashier shading...and more steroids than XIII Ralf and Clark could even dream of. The two "finished" stages look a bit too similar in structure to me -I suspect Super Arena technically is an alternate version of Neo Esaka-, and the aquarium is obviously in a preliminary state, but other than that they look good.
The only criticism I feel like moving to SNKP is that TGS2015 was way too early to show any in-game footage. Only the fiercest fans -like me LOL- enjoyed the first 3 teasers without complaining on the graphics. But it could be Sony demanding tight deadlines...looks like Sony is investing in KOFXIV more than Ledo themselves, and so they have urgent demands.
Bottom line: I really suggest reading Laban's insanely long, meticulous KOFXIV write-up at SRK, so that we all focus on the gameplay -the amount of research he managed to do at a showfloor booth is crazy- and forget about the graphics for a while. It makes you think "fuck yeah, I wanna try out everything he wrote".
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The most important thing to note is how Chang alone makes sf4 look like ass. King on the other hand looks like complete garbage. One of the two has probably recieved more work than the other.
Something that has bothered me for a while is that people say "this looks like crap compared to next gen games like mk x". Mk x looks worse than mk 9. Graphics and esthetics are not the same thing and mk x looks worse than mk 9 because even if the graphics are better, the design of the game is worse. Comparing kof14 to sf4 is good because Chang shows that a kof14 character can look better than any character in the most popular fighting game out there.
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I can only agree about how King looks poor in the latest trailer...what bothers me the most is her Trap Shot pose, I don't like it at all. Andy looks unfinished, but not so poor as King. Also, facial expressions need work.
I'm confident every character's gonna look like Iori at the very least, since I find him the most polished char in the demo. What character do you guys think is closest to completion visually among those six?
By the way, some Japanese KOF fans are retouching screenshots in order to show how "easy" it could be to make the characters more pleasant to the masses...or at least I think that's their intention xD I saw one example involving Andy and Leona which I can't recover right now, and this one...
https://twitter.com/haruta_yuki/status/675617228948041729
Do you think implementing a shading technique like this one is viable for 50 characters in 12 months? (given KOFXIV launches as late as possible next year)
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I'm confident every character's gonna look like Iori at the very least, since I find him the most polished char in the demo. What character do you guys think is closest to completion visually among those six?
Just by looking at the characters and not having seen the game in-person yet, I'd say Chang. Out of all six, he looks the least weird to me. Biggest thing is I don't have an immediate frame of reference for him; he hasn't been on a roster since 03, compared to the others coming directly from XIII.
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By the way, some Japanese KOF fans are retouching screenshots in order to show how "easy" it could be to make the characters more pleasant to the masses...or at least I think that's their intention xD I saw one example involving Andy and Leona which I can't recover right now, and this one...
https://twitter.com/haruta_yuki/status/675617228948041729
Do you think implementing a shading technique like this one is viable for 50 characters in 12 months? (given KOFXIV launches as late as possible next year)
That looks worse to me.
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By the way, some Japanese KOF fans are retouching screenshots in order to show how "easy" it could be to make the characters more pleasant to the masses...or at least I think that's their intention xD I saw one example involving Andy and Leona which I can't recover right now, and this one...
https://twitter.com/haruta_yuki/status/675617228948041729
Do you think implementing a shading technique like this one is viable for 50 characters in 12 months? (given KOFXIV launches as late as possible next year)
That looks worse to me.
To me it seems "typical" for the japanese market. It's like with the backlash for Cammys face in sf5. She looked fine and then they had to soften her face up and make her "prettier" because apparently she was horribly ugly.
Anyways, i think these pictures are pretty good to look at to see a possible direction for the visuals to go in. I don't expect Snkp to go this route though as it was stated in that recent famitsu interview that they want to go back to the darker and more "realistic" look of the first kofs. Totally fine with me; It's preferable that they have an idea and run with it than that they just do whatever people who complain wants them to do. I also happen to think that the early kof games were cooler than the later ones.
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By the way, some Japanese KOF fans are retouching screenshots in order to show how "easy" it could be to make the characters more pleasant to the masses...or at least I think that's their intention xD I saw one example involving Andy and Leona which I can't recover right now, and this one...
https://twitter.com/haruta_yuki/status/675617228948041729
Do you think implementing a shading technique like this one is viable for 50 characters in 12 months? (given KOFXIV launches as late as possible next year)
That edit looks strange to me, like it's also in a state of development, but it looks vague to me. There was an edit of Kyo from maybe a month ago that looked more manga-stylized; that I could go for over this, but I really want to see how the official version progresses.
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@solidshark: any links or hints to recover that Kyo edit, please? I don't remember seeing it myself.
I totally agree that if someone has a clear vision about art direction, pursuing it to the fullest is better, and graphics have never been a deal breaker in KOF to me, it's just that I kinda enjoy this "what if" chat stuff :D
I got the "Andy and Leona" links back. These edits are even more bold than the Angel one, kinda like an oil paint filter...they remind me about a rumor saying SNKP was originally going for an oil painting style.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wcdYXAAANeK8.png (http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wcdYXAAANeK8.png)
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wca-XAAA5dxG.png (http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wca-XAAA5dxG.png)
@desmond: I somewhat agree with you, I mean I don't see nothing so horribly wrong with the KOFXIV art style. You know what? Though I've always been a manga/anime fan, I like how SNK(P) has never gone for a full anime-like shading style for characters, which Capcom did in CPS2 Marvel games, DS and SFA, and ArcSys does all the time. It's a style, a mindset that deserves respect in my opinion, although it could lead to serious flaws in game development -I guess XII-XIII would have been more complete without the final shading and lighting phase.
@Fluke: Chang being the most polished character would explain a thing or two about he being in the demo instead or more popular fighters...also, you reminded me how the focus went on Chang's beard in one of the questions in the latest interview with Oda at Famitsu xD
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@solidshark: any links or hints to recover that Kyo edit, please? I don't remember seeing it myself.
I totally agree that if someone has a clear vision about art direction, pursuing it to the fullest is better, and graphics have never been a deal breaker in KOF to me, it's just that I kinda enjoy this "what if" chat stuff :D
I got the "Andy and Leona" links back. These edits are even more bold than the Angel one, kinda like an oil paint filter...they remind me about a rumor saying SNKP was originally going for an oil painting style.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wcdYXAAANeK8.png (http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wcdYXAAANeK8.png)
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wca-XAAA5dxG.png (http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV7wca-XAAA5dxG.png)
Here's the fan edit - http://i.imgur.com/Yw32taQ.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Yw32taQ.jpg)
The other ones you found for Leona and Andy....Leona was along the lines of Angel to me. Andy though, looks old and bitter in that oil painting style. I can't say I'd like SNKP to go for that look.
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Now I remember it, I saw it as a thumbnail preview for a Youtube video. Thank you for posting it ^^ Kyo's hair could use some tweaking, but I wouldn't mind this style.
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Wait, does that mean people are complaining about kyo not looking like kyo cause his jacket is closed?
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Wait, does that mean people are complaining about kyo not looking like kyo cause his jacket is closed?
Good observation but it looks to me like they've spliced in kyos face from another image. It could ofcourse subliminally be about the rebelious nature of the open jacket but i think that that is just a bonus.
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The thing is I've seen the argument that kyo doesn't look like kyo and looks more like a J-pop/K-pop pretty boy. That kyo in there looks arguably more like a pretty boy but at the same time looks more like the kyo we recognize. I have a feeling the problem really is the jacket. Also I just said that earlier because lol.
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Wait, does that mean people are complaining about kyo not looking like kyo cause his jacket is closed?
Yeah, I think a lot of people were hoping for it to be flowing and animated, more like Iori's coat.
The thing is I've seen the argument that kyo doesn't look like kyo and looks more like a J-pop/K-pop pretty boy. That kyo in there looks arguably more like a pretty boy but at the same time looks more like the kyo we recognize. I have a feeling the problem really is the jacket. Also I just said that earlier because lol.
Kyo has always looked like a pretty boy to me, somewhat in the J-pop sense. I'd say most of the XIV complaints were that he looked too doll-like in the first trailer, and people would just want more detail of his in-game model.
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It's really surprising how naif people can be. There's no point in painting 3D models in photoshop. They should understand the difference between 3D and 2D before post this kind of crap. It's more useful if they just say "Angel should have a special light for her so this way she will have no shadows ever every time camera shows her" (what is pretty stupid but I guess is what he's trying to say with that edited picture). As for that Andy and that Leona awful paints.. Well, I guess the message is just "add more details", because if the game looks like that I won't buy it. About that kind of manga fan art Kyo, I guess the one who did that picture wants KOF looking like GGXrd or Dragon Ball. Well, he should better accept this is not going to happen.
I can understand complains about graphics. I also think they need to be improved. But people should stop to think they are art directors or something because they are simply not, and sometimes the cure is worst than the disease.