Dream Cancel Forum

King of Fighters XIV => Character Discussion => Nelson => Topic started by: desmond_kof on July 18, 2016, 02:16:34 AM

Title: Nelson
Post by: desmond_kof on July 18, 2016, 02:16:34 AM
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Chin Breaker -  close ;bk / ;fd +  ;c
Belly Smash - close ;bk / ;fd + ;d

Command Normals
I found an opening! -   ;fd+  ;a
Your belly! -    ;bk +  ;a
Your neck! -  ;fd +  ;b
       Scoop Out! -   ;fd +  ;b
       Not Yet! -  ;bk +  ;b
       Up! -  ;up +  ;b
       Down! -  ;dn +  ;b
               It's Over! -  ;fd +  ;c
               Wrench Open! -  ;bk +  ;c
               Lay Down! -  ;up +  ;c
               Reap! -  ;dn +  ;c
               Forward! -  ;fd +  ;d
               Backward! -  ;bk +  ;d

Special Moves
A step into victory - ;hcf+ ;b / ;d  (*)
I will hit ya until you go down - close ;hcb ,  ;fd+ ;a / ;c (*)

Super Special Moves
Mighty Punch - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a/ ;c (!)
Invisible Punch - ;qcf ;qcf + ;b/ ;d (!)

Climax Desperation Move
Victory Punch - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a + ;c (ground or air)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Coliflowerz on July 21, 2016, 10:40:17 AM
Anyone find a significant use for Invisible Punch (qcf x2 K)? It crumples so you get oki i guess...? But it's annoying to combo into and slower than the punch super, and i haven't been able to integrate it much
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Untold_Legacy on July 21, 2016, 05:05:09 PM
Anyone find a significant use for Invisible Punch (qcf x2 K)? It crumples so you get oki i guess...? But it's annoying to combo into and slower than the punch super, and i haven't been able to integrate it much

Nothing important if you juggle into it you get a reset off it but that doesn't warrant using it. I think it might have some invinc or it is purely something meant for when you are out of the range of your qcf x2 punch.
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: takgillo on July 21, 2016, 06:35:26 PM
New to kof in general does any of you guys have his bnb
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Diavle on July 21, 2016, 07:25:21 PM
Anyone find a significant use for Invisible Punch (qcf x2 K)? It crumples so you get oki i guess...? But it's annoying to combo into and slower than the punch super, and i haven't been able to integrate it much

It has slightly more range than the P super so could be good for punishing attacks after blocking.

So far I only use it for advanced canceling from the P super, does solid damage.
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: KrsJin on July 21, 2016, 07:48:35 PM
Anyone find a significant use for Invisible Punch (qcf x2 K)? It crumples so you get oki i guess...? But it's annoying to combo into and slower than the punch super, and i haven't been able to integrate it much

It has slightly more range than the P super so could be good for punishing attacks after blocking.

So far I only use it for advanced canceling from the P super, does solid damage.
Yeah, was going to say the only time I favor it over P super is for punishing. If you're wanting to burn two meters, EX qcf x2 K super is the best punish I found for if you happen to block a guard cancel blow back attack.
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: its_chubby on July 21, 2016, 07:52:18 PM
Just an example of corner meaty overhead and what you can do off of it. You can also whiff cancel the overhead into a low before it lands if they get too used to watching for the overhead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidzaICz0YI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidzaICz0YI)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: shinefist on July 22, 2016, 12:11:27 AM
New to kof in general does any of you guys have his bnb

A good bnb is sC, f+A, f+B, f+C. Tack on a sD in the corner.

A decent mix up is sC, f+A, b+B, f+D, b+B, f+D, end with another attack into hcf+B.

The mix up is a bit tricky to begin with as you change sides with every b+B, f+D. This is good to get you started though. I believe this is correct as only played him twice.
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: KrsJin on July 22, 2016, 01:18:08 AM
Just an example of corner meaty overhead and what you can do off of it. You can also whiff cancel the overhead into a low before it lands if they get too used to watching for the overhead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidzaICz0YI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidzaICz0YI)
Whiffing the overhead is dirty, can go back into another overhead with  ;up ;b or go low with  ;dn ;b. I like that idea, going to steal that, thanks! (Nice video for example, too).

Man Nelson is going to make people want to uppercut so much I think. Going to become a real guessing game in those mixup/reset scenarios.
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: its_chubby on July 22, 2016, 06:50:27 AM
Just an example of corner meaty overhead and what you can do off of it. You can also whiff cancel the overhead into a low before it lands if they get too used to watching for the overhead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidzaICz0YI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidzaICz0YI)
Whiffing the overhead is dirty, can go back into another overhead with  ;up ;b or go low with  ;dn ;b. I like that idea, going to steal that, thanks! (Nice video for example, too).

Man Nelson is going to make people want to uppercut so much I think. Going to become a real guessing game in those mixup/reset scenarios.

You can also cancel the overhead into a command grab. I plan to test if you can use the whiff cancelling into backdash to bait dps decently. But for now i'm having too much fun finding ways to get into this meaty overhead. this combo actually works a decent ways from the wall and gets the 1 reset stun. Probably better not to lvl2 super in it though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOVoVH71NQI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOVoVH71NQI)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Coliflowerz on July 22, 2016, 09:06:57 AM
I think it might have some invinc or it is purely something meant for when you are out of the range of your qcf x2 punch.

Tested it, the punch super is the one with the invuln. I think the crumple is going to be whats valuable, but a lot of Nelson's higher level BNB's involve a launch, which makes this super useless. I'm wondering if there's something to it that we don't know, like anywhere juggle or something (which i dont think it has)

Little shoutout to this guy, nice little Nelson vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8nvTtnxpEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8nvTtnxpEY)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: KrsJin on July 22, 2016, 07:46:21 PM
I'm really starting to realize how much stuff Nelson cannot punish without his EX  ;dn ;df ;fd X2 ;k super. (Is that even the right way to describe it? Is it like Super Max DM or something, I dunno). A lot of stuff leaves the opponent out of range of his quicker punishes. I think having two bars on hand might be really important for Nelson to remain a threat at all times. With that, I plan to put him in the 2nd character position.

Does anyone know the actual properties on his STEP TOWARD VICTORY ! ! ! ! ! (ducking)? I know it has invincibility on it to some extent for both projectiles and strikes. And I know there's an ex version (Maybe just quicker startup/further distance traveled than LK?)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Coliflowerz on July 23, 2016, 10:46:25 AM
I'm really starting to realize how much stuff Nelson cannot punish without his EX  ;dn ;df ;fd X2 ;k super. (Is that even the right way to describe it? Is it like Super Max DM or something, I dunno). A lot of stuff leaves the opponent out of range of his quicker punishes. I think having two bars on hand might be really important for Nelson to remain a threat at all times. With that, I plan to put him in the 2nd character position.

Does anyone know the actual properties on his STEP TOWARD VICTORY ! ! ! ! ! (ducking)? I know it has invincibility on it to some extent for both projectiles and strikes. And I know there's an ex version (Maybe just quicker startup/further distance traveled than LK?)

Yeah i think it'll be his main punish tool. He doesn't eat up too much meter anyway so it might not be a bad idea to hold onto it... but it's two bars, and we have to consider that.

The EX version has a lot more invincibility than the regular ones; you can wake up with it. It's also much faster and i think goes further.


So this is pretty cool; Nelson can juggle two  ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;k ;k s
https://youtu.be/egKjz-VDS4U?t=123
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: ottomatic on July 23, 2016, 09:24:37 PM
I made this to show a plausible use for  ;dn ;df ;fd x2 ;k ;k

https://youtu.be/2wxeHcP6WmU (https://youtu.be/2wxeHcP6WmU)

After that specific guard break setup only two things can hit before they recover, SDM invisible punches and climax, invisible punches does need a small step forward to succeed in that situation though. Aside from that it seems to be more of a whiff punish super than anything else, mighty punch gets combos and invul for reversal, invisible punches gets distance and speed for punish.
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: shinefist on July 30, 2016, 04:34:33 PM
I'm really starting to realize how much stuff Nelson cannot punish without his EX  ;dn ;df ;fd X2 ;k super. (Is that even the right way to describe it? Is it like Super Max DM or something, I dunno). A lot of stuff leaves the opponent out of range of his quicker punishes. I think having two bars on hand might be really important for Nelson to remain a threat at all times. With that, I plan to put him in the 2nd character position.

Does anyone know the actual properties on his STEP TOWARD VICTORY ! ! ! ! ! (ducking)? I know it has invincibility on it to some extent for both projectiles and strikes. And I know there's an ex version (Maybe just quicker startup/further distance traveled than LK?)

A step towards victory is also a super cancel, so he can get in close with hcf+K then just do another qcf and a button for the DM. I find hcf+K, qcf+K, advanced cancel works well.

Here's a simple combo for players getting into nelson and want some easy damage, it's a confirm too. dB, dA, b+A, qcf,qcf+K, advanced cancel/climax.
After the b+A you get lots of time to do the qcf,qcf+K
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Amedų310 on July 31, 2016, 04:14:15 AM
Here are my Nelson's safe-jump combos against Kyo.

1. Chain Command Normal string, f+C Chain Command Normal Ender on ground standing opponent, immediately whiff far C, immediate regular forward jump, air db+C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFAdHTpHzBk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFAdHTpHzBk)

2. A 2 bar corner combo into safe-jump: ...(b+A, or f+A), f+B, b+B, f+C, qcf (x2)+AC, immediately whiff cl. B, immediate regular forward jump, air db+C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPMOC7WsMEs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPMOC7WsMEs)

3. A mid-screen reset into a safe-jump. ...(b+A, or f+A), b+B, f+D, b+B, f+D, cl. B, forward hyper hop db+C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crx-LHZ4PHs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crx-LHZ4PHs)

4. Command grab into safe-jump: cl. hcb, f+A/C, hcf+B, forward short hop db+C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTXkVlbokZU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTXkVlbokZU)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: MarshallLawKOF on August 01, 2016, 09:12:12 AM
Hello everyone, EVB MarshallLawKOF here posting a break down on Nelson. Hope this help and if you have any questions please ask. Also big thanks to desmond_kof for allowing me to post this in the Nelson forum.


Keep in mind that this is being based off the Demo build for nelson so things may be subject to change.


Close Normals
cl.a - One of his fastest normals(4f) and its pretty safe(-2). What's good about this normal is that it works on
crouching opponents and can be chained into his overhead(6B) and/or low b which is his true low. So there's a very strong mixup game with this one button. On top of that, it can be used to whiff punish then go into his RUSH(Auto Combo).
By far one of his best buttons.

cl.b - This button is very questionable. Reason being is because it whiffs on crouching opponents BUT! its 0f on block and it can be linked into his low a or b for a low game and chained into his overhead. So this button is very good but not
somthing to use 100% of the time. Keep in mind, command normals can be used after this move. Not to mention its 5f.

cl.c - NOW :) this button is godlike because it hits twice, that said its easy to hitconfirm and chained into command
normals. this move can be chained with overhead into his combo strings. So if it didnt hit your safe to avoid all
together. This move is 5f and -5 on block.

cl.d - This normal is a VERY VERY good frame trap tool, hitconfirm, overhead chain, and plus1 on block so a solid
poking tool. This move is 6f which is very good for a heavy button with those options, by far top 3 his best button
inside.



Far Normals
st.a - Is pretty much the same as cl.a but covers more range with it being 6f and -1 on block. Sadly this move whiffs
crouching opponents BUT good Anti Air vs short hops.

st.b - A slight better version of cl.b but much safe on block (+2) but still whiffs on crouching opponents. This move
is 6f as well so not to bad in neutal and also to AA with but dont get to use it to often, theres better normals.

st.c - THIS IS THE TO GO TO BUTTON! this normal is 9f which is kinda slow BUT the range this normal has believe it
or not this normal stuffs hops,incoming offense so you can use this for defense, poke, maxmode confirm and blowback
bait. All these options for it to be -3.

st.d - This normal imo isnt all that good at all honestly besides whiff punish and maxmode cancel. 11f and -5 on block.



Crouching Normals
cr.a -  Same as his st.a. 4f and -1 on block, can be linked after cr.b or st.a then you can command normal from it.
Very good low starter for pressure or mixups.

cr.b - THIS IS YOUR TRUE LOW, links into cr.a and SUPER easy to hitconfirm with. 5f and -2 on block good use for pokes.

cr.c - This is a very good Anti Air normal vs Long jumps and its cancelable into anything so that means mixups on the
way down :). This normal is 6f and -10 on block, only use for AA.

cr.d - His second low he has that gives him alot of options like dash cancel. 7f and -10 on block.

CD - Sends his opponent flying fullscreen, also cancelable with special moves. 15f and -4 on block.



Jumping Normals
j.a - Very good air to air normal and great at checking opponents out and keeping them honest on the ground.
Even tho theres not much after you can get beside neutral being reset.

j.b - This button is pretty good why, its a 2 hit chain coming down and you can whiff the second coming down to mixup.
Good offense/pressure tool.

j.c - Your to go to jump normal with it being VERY active. Use it.

j.d - This is another Questionable button due to the angel it hits, its decent at best.

j.CD - Very strong air to air normal that gives you freedom to get close, use it.



Throws
c throw knocks back and opponent can recover
d throw is a true knock down with a free mixup on wake up



Command Normals
Now this character has alot of command normals that helps with his neutal and pressure
NOTE: These cancels work also by whiff canceling which is very very cool and good open characters up.
Now the way these work, they work based off the combination you start with, for example- combination A cant
chain into another A but chains into B but with B you use it also to start the next combination so there for you can use
Another combination b then c. Combination c is your choice of ender.

4a is a left uppercut to the body thats cancel into combination b or maxmode or super
6a is a right hook to the body that is cancel into combination b or maxmode or super
4b is juggle starter after combination a or continue 6b or cr.b
6b, up.b and cr.b is either after or before combination 4b. starter comes after combination a, either way its circles
with combination b so test them out.
Enders combination c and d comes after b which you cant dont c then d, you can only do combination ABC or ABD or BC
or BD.
4c is a guard breaks
upc is a overhead knock down
6c is combo filler
cr.c is a sweep

4d is to dash away aka step back
6d is to dash close



Special Moves
HCF+b or d allows him to dash and duck. This move also supports EX in maxmode.
HCBF+a or c is his command grab that helps open up his opponent and mix ups.



DM Moves
QCFx2+a or c Super that can be combo into or use as a Anti Air and a reversal to throws and lows. Also cancel into climax.
QCFx2+b or d Super that force crumbles into a mixup and of course cancel into climax.



Climax Art
QCF,HCB+a+c Most damaging super and use for both reversal and Anti Air.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7V3R09QGds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7V3R09QGds) There is a basic combo video I made for nelson to get people started. ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: KrsJin on August 01, 2016, 09:35:31 PM
 ;up Fantastic write up man.

Question. Do we know the full properties of his ducking specials? Both normal and EX? I keep forgetting to test them out.
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: thec0re3 on August 02, 2016, 01:25:27 AM
I did screen shots of Nelson's normals for any one interested in them https://flic.kr/s/aHskFr9TwE
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: KrsJin on August 02, 2016, 06:35:08 AM
Another question for my own sanity... Am I really bad or can  ;dn ;c not be special canceled at all points of the active frames? Try it against a jumping opponent and try to cancel into Ducking at the peak of the punch. Makes me sad.

EDIT: I'm really starting to think  ;dn ;d might be one of his best normals. Without it, his neutral/footsies game really hurts. If done at max range, it seems very hard to punish, and it's so fast for a sweep!
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: takgillo on August 03, 2016, 10:48:50 PM
I want to ask you guys what s a good use for Nelson Combination C  ;fd ;d ( his armor breaking charged punch) when you have 1 bar or less? I know u can use it when you have 2 bars  to get your opponent with  ;dn ;df ;fd  ;dn ;df ;fd  ;d
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Amedų310 on August 04, 2016, 02:49:41 AM
I want to ask you guys what s a good use for Nelson Combination C  ;fd ;d ( his armor breaking charged punch) when you have 1 bar or less? I know u can use it when you have 2 bars  to get your opponent with  ;dn ;df ;fd  ;dn ;df ;fd  ;d

If you are close enough, you can do (b+A or cr. C) , qcf (x2)+A/C or do (b+A or cr. C), BC (max mode activation), any combo.

Here are two videos showing stuff you can do after the guard break punch for one bar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBVcBplhihI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBVcBplhihI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3llTaARkIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3llTaARkIc)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: takgillo on August 04, 2016, 08:04:07 AM
THX
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: KrsJin on August 09, 2016, 07:16:50 PM
Some random clips of some ideas I'm plying with. Sorry if these are known or have been posted.

Using j.B as a combo ender to setup Oki. Followups can be beaten by 4 frame reversals but you can block to avoid them, too.
https://twitter.com/krsjin/status/763052509090811905

And I didn't realize you can land cl.C after ex command grab in corner. Kind of slick.
https://twitter.com/krsjin/status/763055272671649793
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: desmond_kof on September 11, 2016, 02:15:49 AM
KoF XIV for Dummies - Beginner's guide to playing Nelson
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NTaQ5dohgM#)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: desmond_kof on September 12, 2016, 09:00:25 PM
Hey guys, I did some work on Nelson's moves in his wiki. Just basic descriptions on his normals, throws, special moves, supers and Climax super. If anyone wants to edit his page to add a bit more detail to them (not too much) or correct anything, let me know. He also needs some combos in his combo section too.

http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Nelson_(XIV) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Nelson_(XIV))
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: xSHOGUNDo on September 13, 2016, 12:34:27 AM
KoF XIV for Dummies - Beginner's guide to playing Nelson
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NTaQ5dohgM#)

Thanks for this, I am very interested in picking this character up!
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Amedų310 on October 03, 2016, 09:57:33 PM
3 Frame Safe Jumps:

1. Anywhere 3 Frame Safe Jump, ... b+A, f+B, f+C, hcf+B, vertical jump, db j. C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbxfzvV4OAo&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ&index=5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbxfzvV4OAo&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ&index=5)

2. 3 Frame Safe Jump after Mid-screen Combo Reset, ...b+A, b+B, f+D, b+B, f+D, cl. B, forward hyper hop, db j. C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f38r3IETXU&index=6&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f38r3IETXU&index=6&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ)

3. 3 Frame Safe Jump after Corner Command Grab, hcb, f+A, whiff cl. A, forward jump, db j. C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERCqdi_T0VY&index=7&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERCqdi_T0VY&index=7&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ)

4. 3 Frame Safe Jump after 2 Bar Corner Combo, ...b+A, f+B, b+B, f+C, qcf(x2)+AC, whiff cl. B, forward jump, db j. C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWHdtvxI8E&index=8&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWHdtvxI8E&index=8&list=PLjyg2-Bk0J-DRONeIKSDLCQwb5hJaJuIQ)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Krusan on November 09, 2016, 01:04:06 PM
Nelson“s winquotes
In English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z3nowXB0G0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z3nowXB0G0)
In Spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEl23NwdsRA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEl23NwdsRA)
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Amedų310 on November 12, 2016, 07:10:24 PM
Frame Data: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2WAxkcvfTKdSUpwUHc5VHVfaHM
Title: Re: Nelson
Post by: Krusan on December 04, 2016, 12:03:45 PM
A showcase of Nelson“s combo options:
KOF XIV Nelson combo exhibition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOT2tCumUw4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOT2tCumUw4)
Enjoy!