Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIV => Character Discussion => Kyo Kusanagi => Topic started by: shinefist on July 19, 2016, 09:50:25 PM
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There's been some interesting combo variations already. But haven't seen a video for this one yet.
jC, sC, df+D (2 hits),B+C, sC, df+D (1 hit), qcf+D,D, qcf+B+D(EX), qcb,hcf+P,(EX), f,d,df+C, (SC) qcf,qcf+A+C or qcb,qcb+A+C finish.
Do the EX orochinagi immediately after the qcf+B+D, this will give you time for the f,d,df+C. The timing isn't to difficult, the qcf+B+D sets them up perfectly.
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Easy 5 bar combo for big damage:
j. ;dn ;c, ;dn ;c, ;df ;d, quick max ( ;b+ ;c), ;dn ;c, ;df ;d(one hit), ;dn ;df ;fd ;b+ ;d, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c, ;dn ;db ;bk ;dn ;db ;bk ;a+ ;c
Important notes:
On the first ;df ;d you can quick max after the first or second hit, but on the second ;df ;d you have to cancel before the second hit.
If your combo won't make it into the corner before the ;dn ;df ;fd ;df ;fd ;a or ;c is done, then you need to climax cancel on the first hit of the super. If you are in the corner you can wait until the final hit of the super to do the climax cancel. Mid-screen version of this combo is nearly 60% damage, but the corner version is nearly 70%.
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Remember 'less can be more' with Kyo. He suffers quite heavily from hit scaling in this game it seems so tacking 'more hits' can be counterproductive to big damage.
Variant of your combo, for the fun of it:
j d+C, sC, df+D 2hit.. MAX.. sC, f+B, rdp+BD.. qcf+BD.. qcf+B,B, hcb+B (1hit sc) qcf 2x+AC.. climaxcancel.
Slightly easier execution wise, and the EX RED kick grants you a ground bounce as well as 'perfect close' positioning due to its property to put Kyo right next to the opponent regardless of distance. It also has a fair bit of carry so can help with cornering. The HCB+B after the qcf+B,B is due to the lack of airtime from the qcf+B upkicks, the elbow effectively locks them perfectly almost at 'eye level' with Kyo, so that it doesn't matter which Max DM you choose to do it will fully connect.
What's sad: Just do run in close C, f+B, qcf+C, qcf x2+AC and climaxcancel when reasonably near the corner... The difference in damage vs the extra work required execution wise is not so much... :/
Less is more... Less is more...
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What's sad: Just do run in close C, f+B, qcf+C, qcf x2+AC and climaxcancel when reasonably near the corner... The difference in damage vs the extra work required execution wise is not so much... :/
Less is more... Less is more...
This reminds me of Pokken's situation. I guess the nice thing is that the MAX mode combo is easier to hit confirm, and even if you do miss it... well you wasted a meter but now you have command grabs so... yay? It does build the opponent's meter though. I think overall that using 4-5 bars isn't the greatest idea in this game, except to completely finish the round. But we'll see how the meta develops.
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One thing I am waiting for someone to try out in real live match situations once the full game drops... Hell I may try this myself... is the fact that Kyo's qcf x2+P DM can be charged and is unblockable when fully charged.
Its already been tested/proven that the EX ver of this DM has KOF99 style invincibility during the release spin before the first elbow hits. If anyone remembers how KOF99 Kyo wound up playing, that DM was used raw, often, simply to blow through all sorts of moves. It also was a viable 'trap' after a hard knockdown as by the time the other guy was up and able to move, the DM was almost charged to max and most people on pure instinct alone will simply be blocking at that point... conveniently forgetting its unblockable when charged.
A climax cancel from that DM, raw, does around 80% damage if fully charged, no fancy combo needed... just EX DM into Climax DM. Simple, easy, and ridiculously painfully damaging. Seeing that KOF XIV is looking to be less combo oriented than XIII and these little traps and tricks are now viable again, this may be quite a powerful thing Kyo has going for him... Time will tell I guess.
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Honestly, I was just going for something flashy, but easy to execute for when you want to finish your opponent in style. I did notice ex R.E.D. kick could be integrated into the combo after the fact. The hcb+b I didn't think canceled for some reason. Maybe my timing was crap.
Btw, is there a good reason to use stand C instead of down C in combos? When I do these combos I just hold df the whole time until it is time for specials.
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stC has 0 activation and hits instantly, also 2nd hit of stC can be cancelled into supers (not specials).
dnC has about... 4? or so frames of activation and can be beaten out by other stand C's that are instant.
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So I tried integrating the EX R.E.D. Kick into the combo and it's no dice for 2 reasons. For one, it makes the max bar run out before I get to the super which means I only get regular super instead of EX for same cost and less damage. Secondly, and this is super important, if I'm facing right I have extreme difficulty canceling ;df ;d into ;bk ;dn ;db ;b+ ;d. I don't know if it's the size of my hands or the placement of the d-pad, but I just can't make it work from that side.
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if I'm facing right I have extreme difficulty canceling ;df ;d into ;bk ;dn ;db ;b+ ;d. I don't know if it's the size of my hands or the placement of the d-pad, but I just can't make it work from that side.
Try using ;fd ;b instead?
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Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn't solve the issue of max mode running out before the super. I know my combo isn't optimal, but it's easy for me to do despite my crap execution. Honestly I don't normally even mess with Kyo, I favor Iori, but he's just so easy to use this time. His combos are so flexible it seems like I can input almost anything and get something for my effort. Iori doesn't seem any easier execution wise than he did in XIII.
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If you're going to MAX as a combo extender then you'll only get 2 EX moves. Its balanced this way to prevent too much BS. If you want the EX RED kick, then your followup will be EX upkicks and that's the end of your EX.
This KOF seems to use scaling via hitcount as well as damage, so with Kyo remember that he has a lot of 'small hits' that will very quickly kick in scaling on his bigger hits.
Rather than fuss too much with the ;df ;d, the question you should be asking is: IS IT WORTH doing ;df ;d?
I've seriously found myself cutting back on the fancier crap simply because the damage gained from adding 5-6 hits is literally less than half a notch on the lifebar... It very quickly becomes not worth the work.
Combo wise for BnB super combos, I've been sticking to these:
;dn ;b, ;dn ;a, ;dn ;df ;fd ;a... supercancel to ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a/ ;c
;dn ;b, ;dn ;a, ;dn ;df ;fd ;b ;b... ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b.. supercancel to whatever
The only time I'll use ;df ;d is if you started your combo a bit further out than normal and you need the ;df ;d to close a bit of distance, or if I'm using the move as a long hitconfirm to MAX from st ;c, ;df ;d.
Otherwise either ppl are not aware that the Aragami now combos from lights like in XIII or they're just too deadset on using the ;dn ;b, ;dn ;a ;df ;d, ;dn ;df ;fd ;d ;d... ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b/ ;d that we've seen in all early tournaments lately... Kyo really does have a SHITLOAD of options this time round. The last hit of the Aragami is also reasonably safe so now if your Aragami is blocked, do the entire chain! The MOVE itself has a lot of delay but the last hit has a ton of pushback as well, making it safe... if it WHIFFS it is horrendously unsafe so only do the entire Aragami string if its BLOCKED. The first Aragami itself is completely safe, its some BS like -1 on block. The 2nd hit of the Aragami is NOT safe under ANY circumstances and you should never end it with this, unlike KOF98... always now do the entire 3 hits.
;b upkicks are safe no matter what... the speed and recovery of this move is almost bullshit tier. I've even used it as a wakeup punish...
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This is what I've been doing for a 2 bar, haven't seen this exact version pop up in the thread yet
cl. C, df+D (2 hit) BC cl. D, f+B, rdp+BD, qcf+B,B, dp+C (SC) qcfx2+P
lets you fit the EX red kick in while still having enough max meter for the max super at the end. Orochinagi should do more damage at the end instead of the qcfx2 super but my execution for it isn't quite there yet so I just stick with this.
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IDK if anyone has made note of this, but it looks like both of Kyo's supers increase in damage as you charge it, relative to how long you charge it. It does interesting things to combos; his qcfx2 AC is stronger than his EX Orochinagi, but charged slightly Orochinagi does more damage than a charged qcfx2 AC... at least in combos. More testing required.
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Only the 182 Shiki increases in damage. Its also unblockable when fully charged and has some invincibility when Kyo is doing the body spin before the first elbow comes out. It can be used to blow through a few things.
The Orochinagi is as it always was, MAX ver hits 3 times.
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Well my question is this...since there are some of us who don't exactly have the know how to continue this said combo. What would be some basic bnbs for Kyo and an person who has just taken KOF seriously; well at least competitively.
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Only the 182 Shiki increases in damage.
In the lab right now. Orochinagi does 190 uncharged. Charge for one second, it does 210. Two seconds does 240. Max charge does 270.
Respectively, 182 shiki does 165 uncharged, 179 for one second, 222 at two, 241 Max.
EX Orochinagi, with the same charge times, does 313, 342, 370, and 399.
EX Shiki, 328, 356, 385, 423.
This can be useful; st. C xx df. X xx qcf D D > orochinagi does 272 is the orochinagi is done immediately. If charged a little, it can do 288.
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Dang so you can charge it a little bit in standard combos. Time to get the timings down. Thanks for doing that research.
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Only the 182 Shiki increases in damage.
In the lab right now. Orochinagi does 190 uncharged. Charge for one second, it does 210. Two seconds does 240. Max charge does 270.
Respectively, 182 shiki does 165 uncharged, 179 for one second, 222 at two, 241 Max.
EX Orochinagi, with the same charge times, does 313, 342, 370, and 399.
EX Shiki, 328, 356, 385, 423.
This can be useful; st. C xx df. X xx qcf D D > orochinagi does 272 is the orochinagi is done immediately. If charged a little, it can do 288.
Well, holy shit x.x
First KOF ever where Kyo's Orochinagi actually gains from a charge... This definitely solidifies my claim that 'less is more' then. If you were to simply perform the MAX Orochinagi after ;dn ;df ;fd ;d upkicks and do nothing but charge... you're going to get a lot more mileage out of it than if you were to supercancel and let it go. The fact that the MAX Orochinagi is like its XIII self (1 frame execution on release) means you can really delay RIGHT to the last moment for the highest damage possible...
You're probably not going to see the MAX 182 Shiki used in the same way too much... well maybe, but this really does give a reason to play the 'unblockabait' game with the move. Lets say, score a hard knockdown in the corner via the Aragami -> Migiri Ugachi combo and then back off a step or two and just charge the move... By the time the opponent starts to get up, they don't really have many options. Most will be just holding block by pure habit and will eat the unblockable. I keep thinking back on that one filthy ass unblockabait super Orochi Yashiro had in 98 which literally executed right as an opponent rose from a hard knockdown... and it was unblockable at max. Wonder if this can be used in a similar way...
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idk man i think you can just roll :/
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Just small info, if you want to do a faster orochinagi, use the A version, just hold it and release. I don't think you can do this with the C version.
Also if you want to use it qcf+D ,D you can charge 182 shiki easier for better dame than orochinagi. The orochinagi has better range though. So maybe better to use orochinagi midscreen and 182 shiki in the corner.
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idk man i think you can just roll :/
Step back outside of roll range. The move still has more than enough step in reach and speed to hit. This also makes it so that unless they have a super long fast poke, they can't hit you out of it either so their options are really limited.
Granted the invincibility on the move is nowhere NEAR what it was in KOF99. In KOF99 even if they jumped, you could wait for them to stick out an attack and blow right through the jump attack... But with the way XIV is I guess it'd be way too much to expect that level of hax.
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2 meter anywhere, anchor: j.D cl.D df.D(2) MAX cr.C df.D(1) dpb+BD qcf+B~B qcf+BD SC qcfx2+P
577 dmg
What kinda damage values have y'all been getting for 2 meter combos? that's the biggest one I've come up with so far
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2 meter anywhere, anchor: j.D cl.D df.D(2) MAX cr.C df.D(1) dpb+BD qcf+B~B qcf+BD SC qcfx2+P
577 dmg
What kinda damage values have y'all been getting for 2 meter combos? that's the biggest one I've come up with so far
That's more or less the best you're going to get. You may get more if you DON'T do any supercancelling and just charge the supers and release them as late as possible, going by the discoveries earlier in this thread. Standing C into f+B after the MAX activation may give like... 10 more or some pissant amount that really isn't worth debating :P
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Err yeah, that's mb it wasn't a super cancel, that's actually what I did. Ex kicks to put them as high as I can, then charge the qcfx2 for as long as possible. Timing takes some getting used to, but it's pretty easy too otherwise. I didn't know f+B cancelled in max, gotta tack on that extra damage lo
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Actually just nabbed a combo I saw on that china exhibition set:
2 meter anywhere, 1000MAX: j.D cl.D df.D(2) MAX cr.C df.D(1) dpb+BD qcf+B~B dash forward dp+C SC (hold) qcfx2+P
568 dmg
It's almost the same as what I did, but it can be done without the extra max meter >_> Anchor combos all seem to be more trouble then they are worth...
EDIT: also
2 meter corner, 1250MAX: j.D cl.D df.D(2) MAX cr.C df.D(1) dpb+BD qcf+B~B qcf+A dp+C SC (hold) qcfx2+P
583 dmg
these guys are really optimizing their damage >_> No idea how long it'll take me to implement this stuff
EDIT 2: I uploaded a quick vid of the 2 combos. the first uses a really neat buffer tech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpWuRJdFZCE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpWuRJdFZCE)
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Are you sure that second combo is anywhere? o.o
That second combo, you can make it work even on 1st position in the corner by using a CD instead of cr. C df. D. It'll save just enough time for the super at the end to be an EX.
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another day, another notation error -_- yeah, that's a corner combo. And niiiiiice doing what you suggested net 604 damage. that's really scary for only 2 bars. :o
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If you're aiming for max damage, no matter the difficulty, you can get 627 for 2 bars starting from midscreen. Also the SDM Orochinagi seems to do 5 more damage (and comes out faster) than the other SDM for the same amount of charge time.
jp d C, CD xx hcb B (whiff), D xx BC, D xx rdp BD, qcf B xx K, qcf AC, qcf A xx qcf A xx SDM (charge)
I could be wrong about the last part since I'm typing from memory.
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cr.C to df+D has gotten really inconsistant too. What are the max combos people are using with him right now? My demo muscle memory on this character has gone to shit so I've been putting him. skipping the command normal seems to work, but are one of the other damage routes better?
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I'm trying to find that too since we may need to redo some of the combos in his wiki. Now I just do cr. C, rdp+BD after max mode activation coming from cr. B, cr. A, df+D. From a jump-in attack, its basically impossible.
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He didn´t have many changes since the demos days, and the bulk of his combos is already well-know, so we focused on finding new and different, if maybe not so flashy, stuff, and here are the results:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6qI0cZ3Qlo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6qI0cZ3Qlo)
Enjoy!