Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIV => Character Discussion => Bandeiras Hattori => Topic started by: solidshark on August 02, 2016, 06:36:56 AM
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Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK
Throws
Reverse Ippon Throw - (Close) ;bk / ;fd + ;c
Jigoku Wheel - (Close) ;bk / ;fd + ;d
Command Normals
Kabutowari - ;fd + ;a
Daruma Otoshi - ;df + ;d
Sankaku-Tobi - (Air) ;uf
Special Moves
Iguazu Otoshi - (Charge Briefly) ;dn then ;up + ;a / ;c (*)
Shinobiashi - ;dp + ;b / ;d (*)
Tengu no Tobikiri - ;qcf + ;a / ;c (*)
Kawarimi - (Parry) ;rdp + ;b / ;d (*)
Shining Ninja Arts - ;hcf + ;b / ;d (*)
Super Special Moves
Kama Itachi - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a / ;c (!)
Tatami Gaeshi - ;qcb ;qcb + ;a / ;c (!)
Climax Desperation Move
Kage Bunshin - ;qcf ;hcb + ;b ;d
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Some stuff I have been trying. If you have any questions or suggestions don't hesitate to ask or let me know.
Not sure how to properly embed tweets, here are deeplinks to the videos.
Countering fire balls through the use of teleport and buffering command grab:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/764720093364228096
Fun reset done by canceling CD into teleport at the right time:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/764727388609449984
Corner combo using two bars:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/764730090164920320
Mid-screen two bar combo:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/764734647993368576
Unless the opponent does a counter roll, this is a rather safe use of CD with an available follow-up:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/764739975027957761
This was more for fun but ending midscreen MAX mode combos with j.CD is actually a good meterless ender:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/764740978297049088
I'm not known for discovering combos and 'tech' so take all of this with a grain of salt. Worth noting this is pre-final release date, things could change.
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This is what I've been using as a B&B:
Either cr. B, B, f+A or C (one hit), F+A
then
HCF + D, cr. C
then
HCF + B to appear in front, DP + B to appear behind.
This is the basic mixup. After that some options I've found are:
Close C
cr. C, Izuna Drop
cr. B into whatever
Regular throw
Updated with a proof of concept video:
https://youtu.be/tSEI0JkimSs
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Using qcf+C work if you want the meter less dmg.
https://youtu.be/0KPJev-b3c8
Heres a combo vid i did with bandeiras. Not complete but there's some nasty stuff
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
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This is where I'm at right now for combos all damage is measured of cl.D(1), f.a starter unless stated otherwise
WORK-IN-PROGRESS
Starters - cl.C/D, f.a
cr.b, cl.b, f.a
cr.C
Midscreen
Meterless - Bandeiras does great without meter thanks to QCF + C being a fantastic ender giving good
damage AND a hard knockdown leading into solid meaty oki, as well as air resets to keep
your opponents on their toes
HCF + D, QCF + C (210 + Hard Knockdown)
Stable ender leads into meaty cr.b / meaty f.a / stepback hop c / stepback hop b crossup
HCF + D, cr.C, HCF + B(Whiff) (191 + Air Reset)
Decent reset you have time to meaty
HCF + D, cr.C, DP + B (191 + Air Reset + Side Switch)
Better reset gives more time to meaty than HCF + B although not enough for f.a, Side switch is
easily reactable but still useful for positioning
HCF + D, cr.C, HCF + D(Whiff) (191 + Air Reset + Optional Side Switch)
Weakest air reset if cr.c is done early side switches if done later it does not, doesn't give time
to meaty, side switch gives much weaker spacing cr.c is all you can really get, if someone is
used to reacting to HCF + B reset as same side then maybe this'll catch them but probably not
HCF + D, HCF + B, far.b (207 + Air Reset)
Higher damage air reset that is relevant at a very specific distance from corner probably better
to just take the hard knockdown
1 Meter - This is where Bandeiras's resets start to really shine, here they start to out damage his hard
knockdown ender and importantly they only use one ex move meaning you'll often be able to
do a cheeky ex move combo if the reset connects. It's also importantly when you start being
able to combo off of his f.a command overhead
MC cr.c, HCF + D, HCF + BD, delay QCF + C (294 + Hard Knockdown)
Just as stable as before but probably better to go with resets here, depending on team position
you'll have MAX time left to use EX teleport for your oki
MC cr.c, HCF + D, HCF + BD, delay HCF + B, cr.C, DP + B (316 + Air Reset + Side switch)
The delay on HCF + B can actually be split between the HCF + BD and the HCF + B if you find
that easier. The amount of advantage on the reset is related to the height that the last cr.c hits
at which means to get a meaty out of this you need to control the height of the juggle perfectly
which can be pretty rough but if you do it correctly cr.b will be a meaty. The HCF + B reset can
be done instead but you can't get a meaty from it so I'd advise against it
QCF + A, QCFx2 + P (289 + Hard Knockdown)
Gives a notably long hard knockdown but not that useful midscreen
QCBx2 + P, HCF + D, QCF + C (274 + Hard knockdown)
QCBx2 + P, HCF + D, HCF + B, cr.C, DP + B (301 + Air Reset + Side switch)
Different confirm, strictly worse than the Max mode combos
2 Meter - QCFx2 AC is an excellent ender super and if it hits low enough there is a final slash which
causes an incredibly long hard knockdown, QCBx2 AC is a great starter if you intend to lead into
resets and if you land a reset while still in max mode is an excellent use of meter
MC cr.c, HCF + D, HCF + BD, delay HCF + B, QCFx2 P (480 + Hard knockdown + Side switch)
If you control the juggle height correctly you'll get the final slash on the super by just button
holding it. This knockdown is dumb long so add safehops to the standard oki options
MC cr.c, HCF + D, HCF + BD, delay HCF + B, QCF + A, QCFx2 P (489 + Hard knockdown)
Bleeds a little extra damage out of the combo but stops the final slash hitting, it's still a hard
knockdown and sends the opponent flying towards the corner
QCF + A, QCBx2 AC, HCF + D, QCF + C (460 + Hard knockdown)
Stable ender same oki as usual above combos are preferable
QCF + A, QCBx2 AC, HCF + D, HCF + B, cr.C, DP + B (486 + Air Reset + Side switch)
Same as usual you have time to meaty however if you use the HCF + B version of the reset then
you won't
MC cl.d(1), f.a, QCF + A, QCBx2 AC, HCF + D, QCF + C (428 + Hard knockdown)
MC cl.d(1), f.a, QCF + A, QCBx2 AC, HCF + D, HCF + B, cr.C, DP + B (447 + Air Reset + Side
switch)
Max mode variations worse damage, easier to confirm
3 Meter - It's generally pretty easy to work his climax move in as an ender but the damage isn't that great
it is a hard knockdown though and you do have time to run up and meaty
MC cr.c, HCF + D, HCF + BD, delay HCF + B, QCF + A, QCFHCB + BD (596 + Hard knockdown)
This is possible with any size max gauge but it's pretty strict if he's your point
HCF + D, QCF + A, QCFHCB + BD (542 + Hard knockdown)
Lazy combo
I have more but it's getting late I'll update in the future, feel free to mention where any of this could be improved
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMLeA7Mm2UI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMLeA7Mm2UI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JFV9NPWAbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JFV9NPWAbM)
Max Mode Combos
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...
Top notch! That's how I every combo list should look like :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMLeA7Mm2UI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMLeA7Mm2UI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JFV9NPWAbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JFV9NPWAbM)
Max Mode Combos
Some good ideas with CD mid screen and his teleport. I would recommend including the attack data on screen or list the total damage somewhere to help viewers decipher the results.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMLeA7Mm2UI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMLeA7Mm2UI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JFV9NPWAbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JFV9NPWAbM)
Max Mode Combos
Some good ideas with CD mid screen and his teleport. I would recommend including the attack data on screen or list the total damage somewhere to help viewers decipher the results.
definitely ill re-upload tonight or tomorrow
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So you if you buffer in his command dash behind another move and hold the downforward and D, you have enough charge to cancel the dash into command grab. Not sure if the invincibility carries over but it's a lot faster than waiting for the dash to end. I buffered it into back dash in this video.
Also tacked on a max mode combo:
https://twitter.com/GottaSlayEmAll/status/769412456628248576
edit:
Made a quick video showing some of the ways you can mask the input buffer and get that down charge for the dash cancel. Some of them took a few tries but I haven't grinded the execution for it yet so bear with me lol
Notable ones are CD whiffed and sweep whiffed.
https://twitter.com/GottaSlayEmAll/status/769428529146626048
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So you if you buffer in his command dash behind another move and hold the downforward and D, you have enough charge to cancel the dash into command grab. Not sure if the invincibility carries over but it's a lot faster than waiting for the dash to end. I buffered it into back dash in this video.
Also tacked on a max mode combo:
https://twitter.com/GottaSlayEmAll/status/769412456628248576
edit:
Made a quick video showing some of the ways you can mask the input buffer and get that down charge for the dash cancel. Some of them took a few tries but I haven't grinded the execution for it yet so bear with me lol
Notable ones are CD whiffed and sweep whiffed.
https://twitter.com/GottaSlayEmAll/status/769428529146626048
he more shit i see this character do the more i start to like em
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So apparently if you can charge while running with down forward. Not only does this let you do run up command grab, it actually gives you a different command grab animation!
Also, found a meaty cross up with his j.B after back throw. He can easily cross up crouching opponents with j.B but it's finnicky on standing opponents, unless set up on oki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYQUlq3f_Jw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYQUlq3f_Jw)
Also found if you space is slide to max distance it's even on block, so it's actually a pretty safe poke tool. Goes under fireballs too.
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Noticed the distance his command grab goes is different if you buffer it off run too. Real curious as to why they chose to do that.
After last night I'm more optimistic in Bandeiras. Thank you for everyone who pointed out doing c.C xx hcf+B to land in front of the opponent for Oki. This opened up so much more potential with him I feel.
Also, I'm a fan of canceling into his level 2 ground pound super as early as possible now mid screen in his MAX mode combos. Opens up more damage, begins building meter back. Good all around.
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Noticed the distance his command grab goes is different if you buffer it off run too. Real curious as to why they chose to do that.
I think it's a throwback to Hanzo from sam sho, his Izuna Drop did the same thing when you did it while running.
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Definitely be cautious when using his counter special. Can whiff many attacks/crouching opponents and is super punishable on block. Kind of sad at this realization.
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Definitely be cautious when using his counter special. Can whiff many attacks/crouching opponents and is super punishable on block. Kind of sad at this realization.
I've noticed this too, have had this happen most during jumpins. I think the counter is best used when your opponent tries to counterpoke, for example if you're doing standing B to keep the opponent in check.
As you said it's not a reliable reversal. That means the only options when under pressure are to block or to escape. I think ultimately that's what's going to keep Bandeiras from being top.
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That means the only options when under pressure are to block or to escape. I think ultimately that's what's going to keep Bandeiras from being top.
[/quote]
His neutral is also not very good and his jump ins don't hit at the best angles for his floaty jump arc. I'm not really sure how this character gets in. Once you get going he's great but a lot of the time I feel like I just die trying to get in, feels kinda like playing ninja zangeif or something.
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His neutral is also not very good and his jump ins don't hit at the best angles for his floaty jump arc. I'm not really sure how this character gets in. Once you get going he's great but a lot of the time I feel like I just die trying to get in, feels kinda like playing ninja zangeif or something.
I don't think he's a get in and pressure character. His jump D and stand B are really strong to annoy the enemy. Rather than try to rush down, I recommend just poking away with different attacks and forcing the opponent to make a mistake and capitalize.
I'm stuck trying to get more damage out of this character. For now I'm just playing Benimaru, similar kicks, but does way more damage for meter. I get 400 damage off of 1 meter with Beni, plus it's much easier to HD confirm off lights with him.
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Tested his ground pound super a bit today. Turns out it's even on block and invincible so uhhh.. apply liberally lol
https://youtu.be/88eJIhN8WYs
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPzh_xcUgM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPzh_xcUgM) You can OS for rolls with Bandeiras by holding a charge and doing cr.B upA+B f.A, the nice thing about it is that since it's a flash kick motion if someone were to roll behind you they still get grabbed
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Bandeiras combo exhibition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxPXDA2-sjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxPXDA2-sjg)
Enjoy!
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Thought I'd share some Bandeiras combos and tech that I discovered awhile back. Most of these setups require Bandeiras in the leader position. Hope this helps. Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/zOtfhcHJ-9k
https://youtu.be/LAJi_X3CwIo
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I like the thinking behind some of those counter setups a lot. I just wish his dang counter were better, would make those really threatening.
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I like the thinking behind some of those counter setups a lot. I just wish his dang counter were better, would make those really threatening.
His counter is best used against opponents who know their frame data and like to attack when they feel it's their turn. I wouldn't recommend using his counter unless in situations when you know your opponent will attack. There's other setups that involve using his EX Shining Ninja Arts on block or his light version of Kawarimi on block or even a blocked overhead.
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Man these mixups are hot fire. Holy crap! I didn't even think of applying his teleports this way. I've just been doing heavy teleport into command grab. How foolish of me!
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I like the thinking behind some of those counter setups a lot. I just wish his dang counter were better, would make those really threatening.
His counter is best used against opponents who know their frame data and like to attack when they feel it's their turn. I wouldn't recommend using his counter unless in situations when you know your opponent will attack. There's other setups that involve using his EX Shining Ninja Arts on block or his light version of Kawarimi on block or even a blocked overhead.
I think the real problem I have is that if they attack with a light attack, they're often safe. Or depending on which attack they throw out, the angle may not line up and it will whiff entirely. If it's not a guarantee'd hit, he definitely should not be punishable on a successful counter, I feel.
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I like the thinking behind some of those counter setups a lot. I just wish his dang counter were better, would make those really threatening.
His counter is best used against opponents who know their frame data and like to attack when they feel it's their turn. I wouldn't recommend using his counter unless in situations when you know your opponent will attack. There's other setups that involve using his EX Shining Ninja Arts on block or his light version of Kawarimi on block or even a blocked overhead.
I think the real problem I have is that if they attack with a light attack, they're often safe. Or depending on which attack they throw out, the angle may not line up and it will whiff entirely. If it's not a guarantee'd hit, he definitely should not be punishable on a successful counter, I feel.
You both make really good points. My take? His counter is not the best, but it's not useless. That being said, maximizing the usefulness of the tools we are provided is why we lab it up in fighting games, right? There are gonna be choice places to throw out that counter (jump-ins, frame traps, blockstrings, resets) and we can condition our opponents a particular way to fight them.
For example, I do his cross under reset all the time. I'll do cl.C, f+A, heavy knee, teleport. After that string, people are blocking or poking to avoid the command grab. Throwing out a counter would be a nice read or going for the hop reset/cross up.
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You both make really good points. My take? His counter is not the best, but it's not useless. That being said, maximizing the usefulness of the tools we are provided is why we lab it up in fighting games, right? There are gonna be choice places to throw out that counter (jump-ins, frame traps, blockstrings, resets) and we can condition our opponents a particular way to fight them.
For example, I do his cross under reset all the time. I'll do cl.C, f+A, heavy knee, teleport. After that string, people are blocking or poking to avoid the command grab. Throwing out a counter would be a nice read or going for the hop reset/cross up.
That's pretty much the jest of it. Though they need to change the properties of the counter to also counter low attacks or at least the EX version. Seems to be a real risk and no reward when using it.
Been labbing it up and I think I found a really good setup for command grab using MC. Using cl. A which is +1 on block. Then canceling cr. A into command grab gives you an OS of sorts. The cr. A whiffs and the command grab will connect. If they press a button they will get hit by the cr. A and still get grab. Might be a good way to close out a match if the opponent is low on life.
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Mid NCR after getting knocked out of the tourney I came up with the following setup:
cr.A (whiff), df.D, hcf+BCD, then
on hit qcf+C, explosion super, etc. etc.
on block cr.B, cr.A, then
on hit qcf+C etc. etc.
on block (f+A), hcf+BD etc. etc
The on hit follow up is fairly self explanatory, the on block is what's important. hcf+BD is +1 on block, cr.B is 4 frames start up, so a three frame trap which goes back into itself as a guard crush string (without f+A it's not a true guard string but sometimes the pushback is too far for it to connect). Also the whiff cr.A at the beginning is to make sure the slide doesn't knock down.
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Bandeiras winquotes
English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5i8lyvyslw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5i8lyvyslw)
Spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDNPsm70_bA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDNPsm70_bA)
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After several lazy sessions, and discovering double cross under still exists, I finally made this vid. Hope it helps any aspiring Bandeiras.
https://youtu.be/KJ_eHatYLao
I'm putting together another vid for quick max mix ups. That one has to wait til after EVO.
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After several lazy sessions, and discovering double cross under still exists, I finally made this vid. Hope it helps any aspiring Bandeiras.
https://youtu.be/KJ_eHatYLao
I'm putting together another vid for quick max mix ups. That one has to wait til after EVO.
Pretty good!
Would you like to do any work for his wiki? The draft doc is below:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Dr9-4zNGZ5Xtj9MY9w45cgiTS1Huov5xOJp_5Z-zY8/edit (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Dr9-4zNGZ5Xtj9MY9w45cgiTS1Huov5xOJp_5Z-zY8/edit)
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Hitboxes for Bandeiras are complete: https://flic.kr/s/aHsm5zmhrx