Dream Cancel Forum

King of Fighters XIV => Character Discussion => Vice => Topic started by: Mr.Minionman on August 05, 2016, 01:08:31 AM

Title: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on August 05, 2016, 01:08:31 AM
(http://)

Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Death Blow (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;c
Backlash (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;d

Command Normals
Monstrosity ;fd + ;a

Special Moves
Deicide  ;hcf +  ;b/ ;d (*)
Gorefest (close)  ;hcb, ;fd +  ;a/ ;c (*)
Splash  ;dp + ;a/ ;c (*)
Mayhem  ;qcb +  ;a/ ;c (*)
   ∟ Splash Derivation [Mayhem]  ;qcf + ;a/ ;c

Super Special Moves
Negative Gain (close) ;hcb ;hcb + ;b/ ;d (!)
Overkill (in air) ;db ;qcf ;uf ;up ;dn (!)

Climax Super Special Move
Obscura  ;hcf ;hcf +  ;a/ ;c
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on August 24, 2016, 10:15:12 PM
http://youtu.be/Ul_SNHPHn9Y (http://youtu.be/Ul_SNHPHn9Y)
This is weird, but at least it's reminiscent of older combos. Also I did work on the Vice wiki. Check it out:
http://www.dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vice_(XIV) (http://www.dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vice_(XIV))

I just want to say, as far as combos go, I really really dislike climax cancelling Negative Gain. I liked the old neo max >_> Also I mourn the loss of  cr.B special cancel.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Kane317 on August 25, 2016, 08:19:07 PM
I fixed a couple stuff like hcf D doesn't combo into qcb P in XIV.  I mourn the loss of d.B, d.C link they had even up to the Evo build but they took out now :(
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on August 25, 2016, 09:12:45 PM
Hey thanks for the edits, There's always something :P And I miss the link too. And cl.D~D. Vice feels very... different in this game to say the least >_>

And I rolled back the hcf+D > qcb+C combo. I can see why you could miss it, but I have tested it. They just made the link stupid tight in this game for whatever reason

EDIT: also, If anyone can do that last combo feel free to add in the damage value. I know for a fact it works, but it has been giving me a really hard time.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Sheen on August 26, 2016, 05:19:38 AM
Hey, I was wondering if someone can confirm that the combo in the video still works. I can't seem to link the second EX Deicide after the cl.D and i was wondering if I'm just mistiming or the video was mislabeled and it was actually patched out in this version. Been at it for an hour now and nothing.

Also:
- The damage on the last combo is 710. I would edit myself but i'm not very familiar with how and i'm having a weird time logging in :/
- Gorefest sets up for a very easy safe jump. If midscreen, jump forward then (hyper)hop forward. If in the corner, you can do either neutral or forward jump as well as either neutral or forward hop.
-If it turns out that the combo in the video no longer works, i have a remedy that I will save for a different post that will include max mode combos once i sort them out.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Nereus on August 26, 2016, 03:06:47 PM
Anyone make a video on Vice's AA routes yet using MAX Mode Cancel?
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Kane317 on August 26, 2016, 10:28:12 PM
And I rolled back the hcf+D > qcb+C combo. I can see why you could miss it, but I have tested it. They just made the link stupid tight in this game for whatever reason

What?  It works?  I kept trying it out at WNF and I couldn't get it to work in a match lol.  I guess I should try it in training mode. :)

Anyone make a video on Vice's AA routes yet using MAX Mode Cancel?

What do you mean, like a tutorial? https://twitter.com/DC_Kane317/status/768961029162139648
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on August 26, 2016, 10:35:08 PM
Yeah. I never get it in match though lol. I like gorefest ender better anyway lol.

@Sheen I'll add it in. Thanks for doing that. That damage is really disappointing though, considering its only 200 dmg more than what she get with 1. I'm just sticking with 1/2 bar combos.  You did get the level 2 super right? And yeah, Gorefest is great for safejumps and roll mixups both. I should put that in the wiki too.

@Nereus not yet. bet it's just
> cl.D f+A qcb+AC qcb+A~qcf+P
or
> cl.D f+A qcb+C qcf+P Overkill
90% of the time anyway though, lol
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: MarshDTeach on September 04, 2016, 07:21:12 AM
How are you guys going about with pressure using her? I don't quite know how to keep going after the opponent has blocked a string (cr.b,cr.a or cr.b x2, cr.a). I'm close enough that if I try to hop again I'll get hit by whatever the opponent is pressing yet
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on September 05, 2016, 03:19:08 AM
Vice's mix up is pretty honest, all things considered, so you need to have good fundamentals to open people up. Since this is your first post, I'm wondering have to you checked out the Incomplete guide or the rule of 2 vid? All the same rules apply for vice, and it can take awhile to get used to. tl;dr though, if you are trying to reapproach, keep this chart in mind:
(http://i.imgur.com/D60XYth.png?2)

The secret with Vice though is you focus first on punishing them for being in the air, after which your run up gorefest, splash, and the sleeve start working for you. And if you really want to keep pressure going, end combos with sleeve > gorefest instead of mayhem. The hard knockdown it gives is safe jump-able and you can try to open them up with whatever you like. And if you do get pushed out, Vice is strong mid-range too. Most of her normals have about the same reach to them sans jab, so get comfortable with their max ranges, then get used to the range where st.CD, sleeve, A version splash and hyper hop will work. those are essentially the ranges where you are most effective.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Kane317 on September 13, 2016, 08:46:39 AM
Hey Minionman, does the safejump still work post patch?  Tried it against Iori and he keeps winning lol.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on September 15, 2016, 08:41:03 PM
It still works. maybe you are timing the hyper hop a hair late? Also speaking of which, I saw a new fun one: https://twitter.com/SpiidiOnNoita/status/775675847256764416

Doubt I'd use it because I like the guaranteed damage better, but Vice does have some decent max options. Not as crazy as Mature's, but still pretty good.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: marchefelix on October 11, 2016, 10:07:45 PM
I didn't know you could land an Overkill after resets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSPv8nJnbHI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSPv8nJnbHI)

It seems you can land one in any situation where you normally can't juggle, such as after a Gorefest.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Kane317 on October 12, 2016, 01:31:10 AM
I didn't know you could land an Overkill after resets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSPv8nJnbHI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSPv8nJnbHI)

It seems you can land one in any situation where you normally can't juggle, such as after a Gorefest.

Yeah it's an Anywhere Juggle now.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on October 14, 2016, 07:06:52 AM
I've only landed it a few times so far. It's really satisfying to connect. I'm always buffering super in air-2-airs now, probably to a fault. (Not 13 ex sleeve combos though)
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Kane317 on October 14, 2016, 04:22:26 PM
I mean you really have tons of time now, seeing there's no real reason not to hit them with an air-2-air normal (I like j.C) first to hit confirm the super.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on October 19, 2016, 05:50:55 AM
The ex deicide loop is out, damage is better.
With some of her threatening matchups toned down too, it feels good man.

EDIT: cr.C and cr.D not, A and B. hoooot.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Kane317 on October 20, 2016, 12:19:26 AM
I don't remember her d.C being this good: https://twitter.com/DC_Kane317/status/788561713436110848
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on October 21, 2016, 08:22:18 PM
It's gotten much better. Very sexy <3. Inversely, I can't find any difference in her Sweep hitbox.


On a side note, I've noticed she has different lines when she connects raw Mayhem or Deicide than when she combos into them. Splash gets the same lines as Mayhem when you cancel/don't cancel into it. Think it's a neat little bit of flavor.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: EXWildWolf on October 22, 2016, 12:39:36 AM
yeah, that's pretty strong. Random air to air hits will start to do a lot more damage because of it.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on October 25, 2016, 12:41:57 AM
I had previously thought you needed to end max combos with hcf+BD, cl.D, hcb~f+P to get the deicide ender because f+A pushes you just out of deicide range, but since cr.C has less pushback, hcf+BD, cr.C, f+A hcb~f+P works. Yay for getting a little more damage w/ the good knockdown. If you are anchor you could use ex deicide anyway since it has a little extra range and damage, but I think it messes with safe jump timing.

Speaking of safe jumps: https://youtu.be/kUHOAOYldLs this is an alternative you can use instead of jump hop. It's timing is a little more inaccurate since it requires  a slight wait, but you get meter for the mayhem whiff.
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Kane317 on October 25, 2016, 01:06:06 AM
I think you meant Gorefest, the command grab right?
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Mr.Minionman on October 25, 2016, 01:08:21 AM
Yeah I dun goofed.  I meant gorefest in all instances
Title: Re: Vice
Post by: Krusan on December 08, 2016, 05:36:27 PM
Vice win quotes compilation
Spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIVdGfLr138 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIVdGfLr138)
English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY5VZOeFzp4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY5VZOeFzp4)