Dream Cancel Forum
Other Fighting Games => SNK Games => Topic started by: jinxhand on March 28, 2011, 11:06:05 PM
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Ok, ok, so Fighter's History was deemed a "SF-clone" by Capcom in the original one (they took them to court)... So eventually a better, more original version was released, with 4 buttons instead of 6, plus the bosses were playable... This game is still heavily played in parts of Japan, as well as GGPO... Despite the Karnov teleport glitch, and the tier list, all characters are still playable (maybe not
Feilin Ryoko as much)... What do you think???
Discuss...
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You should replace Feilin with Ryoko.
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Ryoko is the reason why I play FHD.
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You should replace Feilin with Ryoko.
Yeah you're right... I forgot about how bad she was... I just always remember people bashing Feilin...
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I play it from time to time, just haven't tried it on GGPO yet. It's silly as hell, too.
DOUBLE GERMAN! HUH! HAH! TI-GER!
Ballooooon!
baked potato!
It's fast and it has some unique mechanics, so I respect it in that regard for at least being different from SF2. I'm not like some Capcom fanboy, well I did grow up with Street Fighter, but now I prefer KOF and Guilty Gear, because they have some great gameplay mechanics Capcom decided to use for themselves, and I think they should have more people playing them. still play SF2/A/3.
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I like how you can do tricks like doing Zazie's uppercut from the dash special... It takes some practice to get down, but that trick alone takes him up a tier higher, because the dash dodges projectiles (and I believe some other attacks) and the uppercut acts as a counter...
One thing that still boggles my mind is Marstorius' tier placing... Some people say that he's bottom tier, but from the matches I've seen, he should be mid to upper mid, and others have stated the same thing... I know his matchups aren't always in his favor, and it can take him some time to get in, but once he gets in, the damage is unbelievable... That alone makes me think he should be placed higher...
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Matlok
Don't play every match up like guile or you will lose.
Normals to pay attention too.
;b your standard poke
;up + ;a has great priority when it comes to air to air normals can beat some Anti Airs.
;dn + ;b should be your common Anti Air.
;dn + ;d His sweep it has great range.
Special Moves
Spinning Blade
;bk Charge ;fd + ;a or ;b
His standard projectile. It has an infinite (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do2zf11TaXE) if you know how the game slowdown works.
Hurricane Kick
;dn Charge ;up + ;c or ;d
This is his most useless move it sucks as an Anti Air(but decent against the mighty BALLOON). When you see some one does this is either just started playing or did on accident. The only use you can get out of it is to combo into it then again you are better off doing his super.
Overhead Kick
;bk Charge ;fd + ;c or ;d
This special is his most useful one. Since it can cross up, both versions are overheads,and it can hit most weak points.
Super
;dn Charge ;up + ;c + ;d Mash kicks to keep it going
General plan
I usually go for a dizzy and do a super till I get hit out of it.
Signed - Only Matlok main left :(.
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Zazie
"Dersch!!!"
I personally feel he was one of the most original characters in the game... Plus he's from Africa, which is rare to see in a video game, let alone a fighting game... He's also a good character to learn when first getting into the game, as he's an "easy to learn, hard to master" character.
Best Normals to Use:
Standing ;b and ;dn ;b are your best standard pokes.
*Canceling ;b into Ducking allows Zazie to close in.
*Standing ;b also can be hit confirmed to cancel into the "Ducking-Hellfire" trick, which is one of his strongest links.
;dn ;a is your alternate "situational" poke
*This can easily be used in combos, since it can go into his Vulcan Hook quickly and possibly dizzy the opponent.
standing ;c is the best range poke
*Nothing is really guaranteed in this situation.
;uf ;d is great to use in the air, but it has to be timed at times to act as an anti-air.
Special Moves
Vulcan Hook - rapidly tap ;a / ;c
*One of the best moves in Zazie's arsenal. This move can allow Zazie to connect another Vulcan Hook from ;dn ;a if timed right. The range is also great for this move.
Chozaku Vulcan Hook - rapidly tap ;a / ;b / ;c / ;d
Hellfire - ;qcb + ;a / ;c
*This move is good, but only in combos, and when its used for the Ducking-Hellfire trick, which will be explained later.
Ducking - ;fd ;fd + ;b / ;d
*This is only an evasive move, which is primarily used to avoid mainly projectiles and certain other attacks. This is the first part of the "Ducking-Hellfire" trick, which makes him a stronger force to be reckoned with. To use the "Ducking-Hellfire" trick, you have to time the ;qcb + ;a / ;c right at the "midpoint" of the Ducking (at least that works for me). The input can be inputted somewhat fast, but can be buffered.
Step Back - ;fd ;bk + ;b / ;d
*This is also an evasive move, but its not really used. I haven't used it much, since every time I attempted to use it, I got caught with an attack somehow...
Super
Deshikakato - ;up ;dn + ;b / ;d
*From my experience, its only good when landing his close attack which hits twice. That allows easy buffering for the move.
General Plan
With Zazie, you're basically gonna poke and inch in bit by bit. Ducking can be used to bait out certain attacks, which can be punished with Vulcan Hook if in the right range. In the corner, Zazie can do ;dn + ;a , Vulcan Hook, dash in and ;dn + ;a again into another Vulcan Hook, standing ;b into "Ducking-Hellfire"... Make the opponent fear Vulcan Hook, and make them fear Ducking even more. Apply pressure with ;uf + ;d and standing ;c if desired, as the range in those moves are good.
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Zazie is not a good starting character. He's very execution heavy. I would know cause I've played the best Zazie in the US or should I say World? The easiest character to learn the game with is Ray. He's pretty much the shoto of the game and easy to pick up in a day. Though every character is pretty unique in their own ways. Jean is pretty much like Guile but a lot better. Also characters with large hitboxes like Mars tend to have real problems vs good fireball keep away characters. He can win matches yes but it's really tough. My fav character in the game is Clown, even though he has probably one of the worst dizzy spots in the game. He's a good mix of keep away mixed in with some fun mixup stuff.
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Zazie is not a good starting character. He's very execution heavy. I would know cause I've played the best Zazie in the US or should I say World? The easiest character to learn the game with is Ray. He's pretty much the shoto of the game and easy to pick up in a day. Though every character is pretty unique in their own ways. Jean is pretty much like Guile but a lot better. Also characters with large hitboxes like Mars tend to have real problems vs good fireball keep away characters. He can win matches yes but it's really tough. My fav character in the game is Clown, even though he has probably one of the worst dizzy spots in the game. He's a good mix of keep away mixed in with some fun mixup stuff.
The reason why I said he's 'good' and not 'easy', is simply the fact that you can win matches without really taking advantage of the Ducking-Hellfire, I've seen it done... It can be hard depending on the matchup, but it can be done... If one really wants to take full advantage of him, that trick has to be "mastered", especially doing it off of a standing ;b ... Regardless of projectile characters, his Ducking goes through them, so only a few characters might pose a threat because their fireballs come out fast like Samchay's or Ray's even... Plus his combos aren't too hard once you start getting used to using the Chozaku and not the Regular Vulcan Hook... I will say it could partly be the fanboy in me that says he's good to start with, but then again I also tend to cling to pick up characters that have a medium to hard learning curve, but they don't feel hard to me I guess...
I'd easily put Ray over Zazie though in terms of learning curve, I'll definitely agree with you on that... I'd never recommend Marstorius unless you've played grappling characters (excluding Zangief players because they have easier ways to get in - lariat, green hand) , and understand that it's gonna be an up-hill climb to win...
I don't see that many Clown players, and the one's I do see kinda play cookie-cutter and get crushed... I'd like to see a good Clown, Feilin, and Yungmie...
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I agree with nocturnal the only other character that would be good for beginner is Mizoguchi and Jean(If you like charge characters). A simple switch of my fireball timing and Zazie would be eating them.
Well here is my tier list I still need to fill out some things correctly.
Top 3
1.Zazie Great rush down character with a few 100% combos great specials has the best movement options out of any character in this game.
2.Karnov Most people learning this game will think he is number 1 on the surface it may seem that way. He has nice cross-ups those fireballs are blockable.
3.Ray He is great in standard shoto play good fast fireball and a good Anti Air.
Still Competitive Tier
4.Mizoguchi - has a great Air to Air game and great match ups with people that have their weak points as heads.
5.Lee - Combo Master
6.Samchay - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5diNRsy9pqw
7.Jean - He is literally the Guile of this game. His worst match-up has to be Zazie.
8.Clown - Good Mix up game better then Matlok with better AA options.
Marstorius Tier
9. Marstorius - He's a grappler get in do damage get in again. His placement always changes with the month(like an other grappler). its more on the player to make him good then anything else.
Still hanging on Tier
10.Matlok - Decent in every field but lacks Anti Air and Air to Air options compared to the rest of the cast.
11.Feilin -
12.Yungmie -
Ryoko Tier
13. Ryoko - the only reason she is bottom and not with the three above is her match up with Zazie.
Ox Tier
Ox(the only thing that is worse then Ryoko)
Edit: i realized i couldn't count
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I'm liking that tier list... I know some people put Lee over Ray in some listings, and I agree that Marstorius should be placed in the middle, since he is a strong character, it just that as stated before, getting in close can be hard, especially since the majority of the cast throws fireballs... I think if he had some sort of lariat or green hand, then he could be easily placed in upper mid tier...
Karnov has that teleport glitch which makes him strong, and most of his combos can dizzy or take your opponent close to being dizzy with one extra hit... I think that's why most people place him at top, that and in a bunch of Japanese matches, you see more Karnov than any other character, maybe not as much as Samchay... It's strange how their love for Samchay lead to a 40-something man tourney with nothing but Samchay players... Could they be ex-ST players that use O.Sagat or is it that his strategy of fireball bombarding prefered??? I don't know...
One thing that boggles my mind is there are more Matlok players shown than Clown players... I took a look at a bunch of matches recently, and yeah Clown seems stronger than Matlok...
Ox is playable???
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what is this????? ;)
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I'm liking that tier list... I know some people put Lee over Ray in some listings, and I agree that Marstorius should be placed in the middle, since he is a strong character, it just that as stated before, getting in close can be hard, especially since the majority of the cast throws fireballs... I think if he had some sort of lariat or green hand, then he could be easily placed in upper mid tier...
Karnov has that teleport glitch which makes him strong, and most of his combos can dizzy or take your opponent close to being dizzy with one extra hit... I think that's why most people place him at top, that and in a bunch of Japanese matches, you see more Karnov than any other character, maybe not as much as Samchay... It's strange how their love for Samchay lead to a 40-something man tourney with nothing but Samchay players... Could they be ex-ST players that use O.Sagat or is it that his strategy of fireball bombarding prefered??? I don't know...
One thing that boggles my mind is there are more Matlok players shown than Clown players... I took a look at a bunch of matches recently, and yeah Clown seems stronger than Matlok...
Ox is playable???
Top 2 for sure are Ray and Karnov. Zazie is good but he has problems vs Karnov. Ray vs Zazie is a toss up also. I think it's more in favor to Zazie. Though overall can still be a 5-5 match. It all just depends on the skill level and match up experience.
Ox is not playable. Only way to use him is with emulator cheats. He is really bad though. He only has 1 special move and it's bad. He's pretty much a giant hitbox/punching bag. Next thing is main reason why Karnov is good is not just because of his slide teleport glitch. For starters he does have an infinite and it's possible to do in a match. Other thing also is balloon is probably one of the best special moves in the game. It beats a lot of stuff and it puts Karnov in a good position to either stop it to go into a block string/mixup. That or he can just keep doing it over and over till it will eventually hit. It can also be used to do some funky crossup stuff on wake up after you knock someone down. His combos do pretty good damage as well and can lead to easy dizzy. Yea some characters do have answers for balloon but overall it's still a really good special. The fact also that you can change the timing and control it's position makes it even better.
I know that a lot of the Japanese players that did get into FHD were mainly Guilty Gear players for the most part.
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Yeah I know Karnov's balloon is ridiculous--it's probably one of the best special moves in any 2d fighter imo next to lp shoryuken and Ralf's tackle in KOFMI... It's even crazier that you can do air attacks right after balloon hits and continue the combo once he's on the ground as well... Yeah if he couldn't do anything in the air after balloon that would hurt him a bit... It seems like he has to constantly be on the offense to really win though, as I don't see many defensive Karnovs in matches...
I've gotta see that Karnov infinite... I know about Matlok's but I didn't know Karnov had one...
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If you want see the infinite that FHD combovid shows it on there. I have seen it in matches as well but not sure if those videos are still on youtube. Karnov doesn't really need much defensive when all his offense benefits him a lot more. It would be odd to use Karnov that way since he doesn't really have wake up specials that will scare you from attacking besides his balloon.
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don't forget wakeup balloon can be beat; you gotta time it.
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Well Matlok's regular Hurricane Kick beats Karnov's Balloon in some weird way. The world may never know how. Unless there is a prototype that allows me to see the hitboxes.
You also have Karnov's weak point on the head so you can land Mizoguchi Kick rekka on Karnov which will cause a dizzy. Then a super fireball then do another rekka kick that's a 90% to 99% mid-screen combo right there.
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You can't really mash out of dizzies in FHD like you can in ST right???
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Its alot harder plus to dizzy you don't need the whole rekka so you should be right beside him when he gets up.
Well after some testing the second rekka doesn't combo after the fireball but you can go for a mixup.
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It's almost impossible to mash out of dizzy fast enough. Dizzy animation lasts too long in general.
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Man, I just realized how Chozaku Vulcan Hook was better than the original Vulcan Hook (doh!)... I'm thinking that was used to extend those combos in the corner...
Could Ryoko only do the throw loop on the Ox, or were there other characters who could get caught with that???
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It works on everyone actually. It's just harder to do but possible. Thing is it doesn't do any damage. So all you are really doing is wasting time with it to win.
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It works on everyone actually. It's just harder to do but possible. Thing is it doesn't do any damage. So all you are really doing is wasting time with it to win.
Yeah that's what I was figuring, that it would be exactly like the combo vid with her tossing that Ox around...
I'm currently trying to see if there are any real "shenanigans" in the game like ones found in ST... Same for character specific combos...
I'm thinking about running some casuals on GGPO in the near future provided its up and functioning properly...
Honestly I'm not really mad about the dizzies being impossible to get out... For some characters, it just plain sucks because they have to worry about their weakspot being heavily exploited, especially if its their head or shins... I use Mizoguchi from time to time, so actually being able to do a ;qcf + ;a ;b ;c ;d after a dizzy is rewarding; however, I've seen in some matches where Mizoguchi players would just go for a combo into the hurricane kicks, or combo into ;qcb + ;a ;b ;c ;d , so I've personally gotta see which one does the most damage...
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Mizo has a semi infinite/loop combo but it's hard to do on certain characters. Usually works on them standing up. The only real shenanigans to worry about would be the random extra damage from specials. It happens a lot in matches, where a special will do insane amount of damage, a lot more then it would usually do. Also depends if it hits a certain spot on a character. There's also player 1 Lee unblockable stuff but it's character specific and it only works on player 1 side. It's also something that works mainly in the corner.
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hit me up when u gonna start casuals, i don't mind laying hands on fresh meat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tETB83qkboQ
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409 = the real beast, not that Daigo character everyone is all gaga for.
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hit me up when u gonna start casuals, i don't mind laying hands on fresh meat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tETB83qkboQ
What did you use to edit the colors??? That Zazie is dope!!!
Nocturnal, that's probably the best and only (or 2nd or 3rd) Jean I've seen ever... I'm almost tempted to learn him...
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Winkawaks and a Hex editor
But here is preview of the next version of the edits
http://imgur.com/a/hYDzc
This time using Mame's Memory Viewer around to help edit.
(http://i.imgur.com/QI7Cz.png)
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That's my limited edition Zazie color. you get that color when you evolve Zazie to his highest potential.
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Here's my million dollar question-- well its I just wanna see people's view about Marstorius... He's the only character, I think in any game, that goes up and down the tier listing... Now I don't technically view tier listings as the be-all-end-all, seeing as there are other characters in this and other games who can be very strong in the right hands, but do YOU feel he's a generally weak or generally strong character???
I personally feel he's strong of course... The problem is that one has to play a very patient game, and its not even turtling... Granted, he's lacking an anti-fireball tool (unless there's something I don't know about), but once he gets in, its pretty much over if you know what you're doing...
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It depends on the player and how well he knows the match ups. Everyone that plays FHD knows Mars has problems vs fireball type characters. The only thing he can do against fireballs is use his charge down, up + kick special since it can go through them. It's still not very safe though since it's possible to still trip him or use an AA normal or special to counter it after he goes over a fireball. Besides that it's still possible to win matches with him yes. You will need tons of patience though and find openings to win. I wouldn't say it's over even if he gets in. A lot of characters can escape his setups pretty easy once they start.
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I see there are some setups that are escapable... Yeah I don't see many people use ;dn ;up ;b / ;d as much... Isn't Samchay his worse matchup???
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He is one of his bad match ups but he can still win the match. Good thing about Mars down, up + B/D is that it hits on the way up and down.
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He is one of his bad match ups but he can still win the match. Good thing about Mars down, up + B/D is that it hits on the way up and down.
So its safe to say that Ryoko is his best matchup???
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Yea I would say he's slightly better than Ryoko not counting her infinite grab stuff. He does well vs Lee also since Lee can't really play keep away as well as those with fireballs.
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Game is pretty sweet, probably the best of the SF2 rip offs (even better than WHP).
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i think breakers revenge is probably the best sf rip off.
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I love Karnov's Revenge.
I main Ryoko. I am a masochist.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDqTFPIwJic
YOU GONNA DIE CLOWN
No way to beat that jab spammage with Ryoko...
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I hate how much ryoko sucks in this game, she must be my favorite grappler to use in any fighting game ever along with clark
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Color patch done!
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/fighters-history-dynamite-thread.29985/page-17#post-5668309 (http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/fighters-history-dynamite-thread.29985/page-17#post-5668309)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDqTFPIwJic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDqTFPIwJic)
YOU GONNA DIE CLOWN
No way to beat that jab spammage with Ryoko...
Homoegenius.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDqTFPIwJic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDqTFPIwJic)
YOU GONNA DIE CLOWN
No way to beat that jab spammage with Ryoko...
Homoegenius.
Most definitely!!!
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Anyone have any tips vs Clown???
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i play Liu Feilin but only vs the cpu.
Here in China nobody plays this game so i dont have any chance to play it online :(
Back in Italy i played on supercade with Clow, Matlock and Liu Feilin... i love the latter.
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Anyone have any tips vs Clown???
Who are you using?
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Anyone have any tips vs Clown???
Who are you using?
Zazie and Samchay.
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Anyone have any tips vs Clown???
Who are you using?
Zazie and Samchay.
Shouldn't be much a problem. Zazie gives Clown a lot of problems if used correctly. Clown has to play a lot more risky in order to really get openings vs Zazie. Samchay I think does pretty well vs Clown. I would say the match up is 5-5 depending on how well each can zone the other or land openings.
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Anyone have any tips vs Clown???
Who are you using?
Zazie and Samchay.
Against Zazie - ragequit
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Anyone have any tips vs Clown???
Who are you using?
Zazie and Samchay.
Against Zazie - ragequit
lol
@Nocturnal - I'm getting used to doing that dash to uppercut rather consistently again after not playing for awhile. I'm starting to realize this keeps him from jumping all over the place, but I did better using Samchay. What unsafe moves should I be looking for anyway?
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@Nocturnal - I'm getting used to doing that dash to uppercut rather consistently again after not playing for awhile. I'm starting to realize this keeps him from jumping all over the place, but I did better using Samchay. What unsafe moves should I be looking for anyway?
Well Clown only really has 4 specials. His fireball, head stomp and 2 blanka balls (vertical and horizontal). They all have their purpose but I would be more scared of his headstomps and blanka balls mainly. The problem is that his blanka balls are pretty simple to beat out in general. Most characters can just mash LP to keep him from doing them. Certain specials beat it out clean. The LK version is the safest on block but slow since it recovers quicker and keeps Clown close. The HK version is quicker but pushes Clown away from the opponent and has longer recovery. If someone uses the HK version then that's another free opening/hit on Clown. The vertical blanka ball is actually very risky in general. It can help him do crossups but overall it's really unsafe. Once you block it correctly it's a free combo/hit on Clown. His HP headstomp is fast but at times it can whiff if not spaced correctly. It also has longer recovery on it. The LP version is slower so it's riskier to use. The HP headstomp is faster and can be somewhat safe from a distance, but characters with fast horizontal specials can still hit Clown. Those are pretty much the main things to watch out for when playing against Clown.
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I keep forgeting how strong standing ;a is against alot of moves. I just have to be careful not to do Zazie's special when throwing that out. I feel like I might do better with Samchay only because I bait more, and I have an idea as to how to punish certain moves.
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Not to double post, but this is for those still interested in the game. Ko-Hatsu had a tournament recently (yes as in the 7th of April 2012!!!), and I managed to find these vids this morning (props to the uploader(s)). It's in 3 parts, but each match was good imo. Everyone was used also-- yes, even Ryoko!!!
Part 1:
Fighter's History Dynamite : Ko-Hatsu Tournament (2012/4/7) [Part 1] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_HjrvXW-U4#)
Part 2:
Fighter's History Dynamite : Ko-Hatsu Tournament (2012/4/7) [Part 2] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4z9KHp-uII#)
Part 3:
Fighter's History Dynamite : Ko-Hatsu Tournament (2012/4/7) [Part 3] [End] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbLxccwI7E4#)
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This game is one of the best SF2 clones in my opinion, here is my combo video of this game on youtube -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-jim7tAUEQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-jim7tAUEQ#)NeoGeo Classic Combos Vol 3 - Fighters History Dynamite
All combos were performed on keyboard; no tools, cheats or hacks were used.Sorry for same stage on all the combos, I tried many things to change the stage but just couldn't in vs mode. I didn't record 2-3 infinite combos cause they are already published on various videos on youtube. And also I couldn't record a few combos because I wasn't able to repeat them for recording.
Hope you guys enjoy this and don't forget to give your valuable opinion regarding the content so I can improve on my later videos.