Dream Cancel Forum
Sakazaki Dojo => Training Room => Topic started by: Phoenixazure on June 15, 2011, 09:52:30 PM
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This isn't so much but a general Fighting game issue that's been plauging me since I started so many years ago and whats been sort of my bane of trying to get past newbie/scrub level in fighting games. Does anybody have any techniques or pratice as far as being able to get the motions down perfectly and consistently? Any basic drills or whatnot that anybody performs to practice? This is probably a very noobish question but hence why its posted in a training room topic
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Practice, Repetition, and trying to get something done from multiple situations...
I try and find a rhythm to the madness, and learn that rhythm so well, that I could do the motions with my eyes closed.
If you have a game that allows you to list your button and stick inputs on screen, turn that on. See if you have a bad habit of pushing odd directions after finishing off moves, or if you hold certain directions too long.
I hated it when friends would swoop their finger over the D-Pad, and then just let their finger fly completly off the pad, as if they didn't need to start preparing their next move after a special. If you do that by some chance, I'd suggest training yourself to keep you them right on or over the pad, and also to get used to going back to neutral when needed. Habits start to come up when you're in the middle of battle, so learning something to overwrite bad habits is a very useful endeavor.
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the best thing to do for any KOF game is to slow down. I come from street fighter and i had to slow down my input to get what i want when i want it. I still struggle when im in a real but not as much when i first started. it do depend on what KOF game your playing i think KOFXII is the slowest out of XI XIII 2002 UM. you dont have to mash like street fighter
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perfectly and consistently? Any basic drills or whatnot that anybody performs to practice? T
All of that comes from practice, proper acknowledgment and discipline to fixing bad habits and mistakes.
You can practice a million hours and still not gain any progress if you do not constantly try to change what mistakes you are making while you are doing it.
For example, I used to have lots of trouble doing Chris' down+C, f+a XX qcfx2+A/C after his direction change (dp+A). What usually came out was just his qcf + A instead of the qcfx2+A/C super. So what I had to do in training mode is to just practice as accurately as possible making sure I was getting the super instead of the qcf + A. I had to pay attention to my hands and where the joystick was going, making sure it was accurately hitting the inputs at the correct times, and if I made a mistake, I tried different and small adjustment until it was right and proper. After that, I just kept practicing against the computer then against human opponents until now I can hit it about 95% of the time in a heated battle.
But I keep practicing it make sure I stay sharp because I can get rusty easily. LOL.
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Well i booted up MVC3 since it had a input show, and i seem to input 3 directions when i go for my df/db/uf/ub. i guess thats where I first have to practice. Also, is it adviceable to be hitting the next button multiple times in hopes of getting it to link in or is that just another bad habit i should work on breaking next.
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Well i booted up MVC3 since it had a input show, and i seem to input 3 directions when i go for my df/db/uf/ub. i guess thats where I first have to practice. Also, is it adviceable to be hitting the next button multiple times in hopes of getting it to link in or is that just another bad habit i should work on breaking next.
For the most part, it's a bad habit. Some chains are spammable but eventually it'll get you into trouble since there are certain links that won't come out if you spam it. Think Shen's d.B --> d.C; Kyo's d.B --> s.A; Duo Lon's d.A --> s.C just won't come out if you spam it.
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i figured as much. This is going to be a long and painful road to step my game up once again
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Well i booted up MVC3 since it had a input show, and i seem to input 3 directions when i go for my df/db/uf/ub. i guess thats where I first have to practice. Also, is it adviceable to be hitting the next button multiple times in hopes of getting it to link in or is that just another bad habit i should work on breaking next.
For the most part, it's a bad habit. Some chains are spammable but eventually it'll get you into trouble since there are certain links that won't come out if you spam it. Think Shen's d.B --> d.C; Kyo's d.B --> s.A; Duo Lon's d.A --> s.C just won't come out if you spam it.
Just mashing links and praying is a bad habit, like Kane said. If you want to make things easier (at the cost of more handwork), you could try pianoing (when you input the link, very quickly press a lower-priority button afterwards to get two chances at the link, like doing d.B, s.A as d.B, s.A~C...the input should show d.B, s.A, s.AC if you're doing it right), but I'm not sure how well that'd work in KOF since AB, BC, and CD are all actual inputs. It's best to just practice until you can do the links with a single, precise button presses. There's a little more leeway for mashing on cancels, depending on exactly what you're trying to do, but even then, aside from double-tapping (quickly striking the input button twice, just like the name implies *laughs*), you're best off practicing until you can to do it exactly.
As for getting stick inputs cleanly, I know this is going to sound really boring and lame, but something that I found useful was to pick a character with all of the common input motions and just try to see the longest streak of successful inputs I could do with each one (and also stuff like dashing, superjumping, etc.). Couldn't even go 5 straight reliably at first, but focusing on just that for about an hour or two per day for a week made a world of difference.
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If you play with a stick i can tell you this from personal experience.Play KOF with the stick on a flat surface and make sure it doesn't move too much (i have a TE stick so no problems with that), also you must have a confortable position when you play so it doesn't have to be positioned too high or to low.I can play all the games fine with the stick in my lap but for kof you can't mash stuff and the execution must be close to perfect.Try to practice like that and i assure you that your execution will improve.
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i figured as much. This is going to be a long and painful road to step my game up once again
Do you still play Blazblue bro? get some more PSN/XBL games and fight me.
Practice and play son.
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I feel your pain. I am making that transition too. I spend more money in training mode than I do against peeps. But the practicing helps me with my midscreen game since combos are more forgiving in the corner. Slower is faster.
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Practicing more than playing is never a good thing.You will never have confidence in your skill or execution, not to say that you miss on learning strategies and mind games which can be practiced only against real players.I say 20% practice the rest play and try to fight against decent and better players than you.Loosing is never a bad thing it gives you an extra push to improve, not to say you always learn something new from better players.
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I get what you're saying, but I then develop a mindset where it's okay to panic and mash. If I do the combo a thousand times, I feel comfortable doing the combo. It took me a bit in training mode to get how to use K' and his BnB. Without it, I'd always get punished for dropping the combo or whiffing it.
Now, I'm trying to hit confirm with Terry. A lot of the time I'll do Close C, df. C, and have to do power wave if they block or burning knuckle. Can't just mash or guess otherwise I don't get the combo or I eat a combo off a blocked burning knuckle.
There's just topics better players can't teach me. They can teach me when my moves aren't safe or when they make mistakes how to capitalize on them, but I won't get the maximum damage if I can't link. Just a big trade off.
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I get what you're saying, but I then develop a mindset where it's okay to panic and mash. If I do the combo a thousand times, I feel comfortable doing the combo. It took me a bit in training mode to get how to use K' and his BnB. Without it, I'd always get punished for dropping the combo or whiffing it.
Now, I'm trying to hit confirm with Terry. A lot of the time I'll do Close C, df. C, and have to do power wave if they block or burning knuckle. Can't just mash or guess otherwise I don't get the combo or I eat a combo off a blocked burning knuckle.
There's just topics better players can't teach me. They can teach me when my moves aren't safe or when they make mistakes how to capitalize on them, but I won't get the maximum damage if I can't link. Just a big trade off.
You will panic and mash either way if you are not sure of your execution - thoe you made that combo perfect in practice mode.Making a combo during training is nothing.When you have to do it on reaction or to punish something is totally different.Of course that combo must be practiced several times - but it doesn't matter that you do it 100 in practice mode if you can only land it a couple of times during a match (like i said during a match you have to take decisions, be patient sometimes, find strategies or adapt - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO JUST THINK ABOUT THAT COMBO AND TRY TO LAND IT!).The real training for me is playing with a human opponent.When i had to learn a new game i was like you - practicing like crazy but if you sit and think about it it doesn't help too much if you play so little time against someone. You won't be able to even get close to lay that combo because you lack mind games and strategy.Do not get discouraged and play more and keep in mind what i wrote in bolt letters.You will never be a better player if you stay in practice mode and play less...and skill comes with time not over night. :)
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I have Blazblue CS for 360 along with the XBLA KOFs, next time there's a ranbat, I'll try and join in
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When it comes to learning combos, for myself, I like to spend a lot of time in training mode first to comfortable with doing four combos (in a KOF or SF sort of game...many more for something like GG or AH3) for a character: (1) basic no-resource combo off of typical poke strings, (2) basic efficient metered damage off of typical poke strings, (3) best damage when I want to blow everything I have for a kill (could be the same as (2), especially in older games), and (4) punishment combo for things like baited reversals where I can freely use a high damage starter instead of poking. Once I have those down to the point where I don't have to think about it while actually doing them, it frees up my mind during actual matches to focus on strategy, yomi, hit confirming, etc. I don't have to think about doing the combos because, at that point, they're pretty much automatic once I see that I'm hitting or once I see that my opponent do something unsafe. Once I get to the point where I'm confident in the rest of my play, then I revisit my combos and see if I can do anything to improve them (for instead, if I'm just starting out with Mature in 2002UM, my combo (2) might just be <optional jump-in>, cl.B, qcfx2+A/C...then later <optional jump-in>, cr.B, cr.A, cr.A, qcfx2+A/C...then later a basic BC combo, etc.)
I don't think anyone will argue over whether improving mind games, spacing, etc. is best done by going against other players, nor over whether it takes a lot of time and experience to become a skillful and complete player at any legitimate fighter unless you use XIII Raiden. However, the topic of this thread is:
Does anybody have any techniques or pratice as far as being able to get the motions down perfectly and consistently? Any basic drills or whatnot that anybody performs to practice?
Getting execution down is something that most people probably aren't comfortable learning while under the stress of an actual match. Learning to have a calm mind and hands so that you can keep near your practiced level of execution during a real match is critical, sure, but topic was about fundamental execution. There's a lot less pressure on you trying to do a combo you've practiced and landed hundreds of times than to just see the notation on a forum and jump into trying it in a match.
This is especially true for games like Blazblue, where you frequently have to adjust your timing or omit/change/reorder attacks depending on the other character (at least for Hazama...not as sure about other characters, since Blazblue isn't as crazy overall in character-specifics as Guilty Gear is), the p1 rating of your opening hit, whether the opener was a normal or counter hit, height for air-to-air confirms, whether your opponent was standing or crouching for X-to-ground confirms, etc. (PS: For Phoenixazure: Don't let all of that intimidate you if you're just starting out. Practice and improve with some basic reasonable combos [say, one no-meter, one with 50% meter, and one off of throws] first, then worry about going into more optimized stuff once you're solid with that :) )
Ideally, you should not be actively thinking about all of that during a match, because you should have spent the time to practice all of those scenarios in training mode against all of the cast so that you automatically know what you should do when you land a hit. However, there's no point in doing all of that practice if you're not even confident that you can do basic inputs right, which is what Phoenixazure seemed to be asking for help with.
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That was what I wanted to touch on and I agree with you, Omegaryuji. It's why I spend a great deal in training mode to improve my gameplay.
It does no help if you drop combos against someone and get punished for it. It's best to get the execution down before you put it into practice. Playing humans is much different than learning when to cancel or what to do if your move his blocked. These things don't require human interaction, but are better done with constant repetition.
Training mode for KoF XIII for example is very useful. You can set the dummy, for the first minute or so, to stand or crouch. Practice execution from midscreen, in the corner, paying attention to the rate it hits. I used to lack the ability to combo midscreen, but a lot of practice with timing has improved that ability. From there, you can set the dummy to 1-hit guard. This will make it easier for you to see if you're linking it properly. For example, Terry's d.B, d.A, df.C can sometimes be blocked if you don't do it fast enough. If you tap the buttons too fast, it might not even register. It's just to check if you're linking properly. You finish off with practicing hit confirming. Using Terry again, I do his basic s.C, df.C, => into power wave or burning knuckle. If I do powerwave, I am safe on block. If I do burning knuckle and its unblocked, I get a free combo. This helps a lot with making you more reactive and thinking rather than following a string.
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Alot of helpful tips
Thanks everyone
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Agreeing with DJMirror949~, Maybe somebody can compile this into a "how to practice KOFXIII" post and pin it up? Because I'm sure it will help with new players similar to me, and especially since this is the Training Room! xD
I don't think I myself can do that because I'm not at a level where I've been using this advice for years yet~ >_<
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God knows this is my main issues. Getting comfortable with constant short hops and all the commands.
I think I might just scrap combos altogether and just get the basics down so good that combos are only damage boosters. Cause despite doing relatively well in MVC, SF, and BB, this KOF is on another level when it comes to execution.
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God knows this is my main issues. Getting comfortable with constant short hops and all the commands.
I think I might just scrap combos altogether and just get the basics down so good that combos are only damage boosters. Cause despite doing relatively well in MVC, SF, and BB, this KOF is on another level when it comes to execution.
why would you scrap combos?
unless you mean not trying them until you're confident
and another thing although kof 13 is harder when it comes to timing and motions.the links seem easier to me then sf, i mean there are one frame links ( that i have learned to consistently do ) in SF that are bnbs for certain characters that's harder than what i've done in kof ( in terms of links only) up till now.
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^ Capcom tends to have a slower frame link then KOF. It's harder to get yourself to go slower to get the combos going when you are used to the high speed combo linking KOF provides. It took me forever to get used to MvC3 & that's supposed to be fast.
Though if Capcom gamers come over to the KOF side, it might drive them nuts to have to move so fast. Not saying this is the case, but it's food for thought.
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^ Capcom tends to have a slower frame link then KOF. It's harder to get yourself to go slower to get the combos going when you are used to the high speed combo linking KOF provides. It took me forever to get used to MvC3 & that's supposed to be fast.
Though if Capcom gamers come over to the KOF side, it might drive them nuts to have to move so fast. Not saying this is the case, but it's food for thought.
two words Super Turbo ( HD remix counts too )
it's faster than kof 13 and if you try things like fei longs combo off of a chicken wing it is much harder and faster.
what are you talking about slower frame link? one frame some-where is one frame anywhere you still have to press a button in one frame. ( bnb's are pretty fast ) in terms of execution though i still think kof is superior just not with links.
does kof even have an equivalent to one frame links?
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Should have said the new Capcom games (no HD remix is just a slightly retooled older game anything pre 2001 didn't exactly have noobs in mind). The new Capcom motto is making it easier to work with. Old school Capcom was not the case. I guess that's the reason why I prefer the older Capcom games (though I do play the new ones).
1 frame? *thinks* If it were I doubt it would be KOF. Maybe a tighter control SNK fighter. I'd guess Samurai Shodown 2 or Fatal Fury special might have something like that.
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my point still stands though even if sf4 is a slower game per-say one frame is always one frame and if you play a character with one frame bnb's they are harder than any links i've done in kof.
i'm not trying to say sf4 is better in any way when i picked up the game expecting it to be almost as good as my fav game and its predecessor i was very displeased. what i was trying to say is that people were saying the links were more difficult and that they couldn't mash to get a link like in sf4 to connect, although you can't do that in sf4 either and that if they played the game at a decent level they would know that.
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There are some. I think Takuma has a combo where you have to do low punch into db, f+D which is hard to do because a lot of people drop the link.
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Takuma's j.c, s.c, f.b qcf+d ->c.a b~f. bd feels like a one frame link.
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my point still stands though even if sf4 is a slower game per-say one frame is always one frame and if you play a character with one frame bnb's they are harder than any links i've done in kof.
i'm not trying to say sf4 is better in any way when i picked up the game expecting it to be almost as good as my fav game and its predecessor i was very displeased. what i was trying to say is that people were saying the links were more difficult and that they couldn't mash to get a link like in sf4 to connect, although you can't do that in sf4 either and that if they played the game at a decent level they would know that.
I still think the problem lies in the speed of it, but your point is true. Mashing doesn't get you anywhere in high level play, no matter what game you are playing. It just takes time to learn a system no matter what you are familiar to.
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I think I might just scrap combos altogether and just get the basics down so good that combos are only damage boosters. Cause despite doing relatively well in MVC, SF, and BB, this KOF is on another level when it comes to execution.
Assuming you're not talking about MvC2, SF2, or SFA, those games all have more generous input reading than KOF (although XIII's is pretty loose).
does kof even have an equivalent to one frame links?
Yes. Off the top of my head, I think Mary's ...f+A, (b)~f+B in 98, Iori's cl.B, cl.C... in 2002 (felt easier in 98 but not completely sure if so), and Jhun's (A)D guardbreak, cl.C... in 2002UM are 1-frame timings.
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I've never been any good at fighting games, but what's been really helping me lately with everything (SF, Marvel and now this) is to slow down my inputs.. like reeeeeeeeally slow, with no chance of the combo or move even working properly. It helps me get proper muscle memory for the exact inputs, and then I gradually increase speed while maintaining input accuracy (I have input display on all the time when practicing)
For me, that method avoids any sort of mashing or tense feeling or improper inputs when doing anything. Speed is something that you can easily practice and get better at, but if you're starting off with sloppy inputs for the sake of immediate speed, it can be more difficult to correct later on.
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I wish I could have you talk to my friends Blue. They seem to all have trouble with inputs in King of Fighters. Problem is that they're too used to being able to mash inputs until it works, like in Street Fighter.
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I think something to watch out for when practicing execution for moves is, to first of course..
1) practice slow....for instance, umvc3/mvc3/ssf4ae/ ryu's hadoken is ;dn ;df ;fd+ [punch]
Even if you do it slow and a fireball doesn't come out, you still got the motion out. Here is the HARD part.
When the input is ON in practice. you should see a consistent ;dn ;df ;fd +[punch] back to back.
I say this because you WILL often do (ssf4ae input style)
[Punch]
;fd ;fd[punch]
;df vs the correct way ;df
;dn ;dn
in both inputs a fire ball will still come out. But execution for strict timing games like KoF will help you improve your combos and help with super/ultra/neoMAX/etc etc.
2) They say to be good with your motions practice doing a move/combo/set-up about 10 times no mistakes.
If you mess up once, don't cheat yourself, start over from 1.
PRO's of course practice these moves over a 100 times no mistakes. This is what truely separates "men from the boys"
This should eliminate mashing. Reason you mash of course is mashing out "hope" lol
just know your inputs. practice your timing and moves. and of course get alot of play time in so you don't scrub out a mashed out super/ultra
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Will double tapping buttons help at all like in 3s??
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Will double tapping buttons help at all like in 3s??
are you refering to plinking?
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Will double tapping buttons help at all like in 3s??
are you refering to plinking?
you can't p-link in 3s so no he isn't referring to that.