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Yeah I took like a 30 min Ralf to locals the other night and his stand D is 98-tier, lol. Godlike. Stand C is good too, but it's more honest since it whiffs crouching, still great for its raw speed though. I think the key to pushing Ralf far enough forward will be confirming far D, as sketchspace suggests. Wasn't aware it was super-cancellable, I kept trying to confirm with MAX-cancel, but using his qcf+D buffer method may be more consistent for reads that aren't easy. Definitely wanna mess more with this character, he hasn't been this fun to me since 98/XI.

His st.D also has high/mid guard point to offset how slow it is.

His j.CD seems fine on range for the kind of use it'll see (offensive jump-in, maybe it could air-to-air moves with huge hurtboxes).

Close C is risky, but you can convert it to a combo with his meteor super since it hits OTG.

Close D is actually plus on block, with a long activation range, so it's quite okay to leave this move raw on block if you don't get a combo off it.

j.C is definitely one of the best things about him, chunky-ass crossup. Further incentive IMO to bully people with his light attacks, all of which are pretty decent. He's not super-fast, but given his projectiles I didn't feel like he was prohibitively slow-moving.

The teleport is steerable by holding back/forward. Not throw/strike invulnerable on first frame, but eventually becomes fully invulnerable, punishable at the tail end of the animation (narrow window, need something meaty waiting for him). So there may be some merit to using it as an EXTRA-style dodge.

Both his throws are unbreakable, which is nice.

All his light attacks are really good IMO. Best light string is probably cr.B > cr.A > cr.B > st.A because st.A is cancellable, though confirming rdp+A may be awkward.

This guy is weird but seems pretty honest. IDK about anchor Verse but 1st/2nd Verse I can see confusing some people.

[st.CD]

Hey guys,

Since this forum hasn't been quite as active since the demo, and Mai's seen some big changes, I just wanted to cover the major ones I noticed and talk briefly about where I think the character stands now. So here's what I observed when they nerfed Mai in the day 1 patch:

st.CD: Took the biggest hit due both to specific nerfs and universal nerfs to CD attacks. It's no longer positive on block at close range; it must be blocked either meaty or at absolute maximum range to be positive on block. Its damage has also been highly reduced, making many near-corner combos with it less damaging than combos involving "conventional" starters and fillers like cl. D. And on top of that, the universal nerf to wall stick (narrower window to get a grounded hit) has basically killed off her obscene corner st.CD routes; st.CD > cr.C ground hit is no longer possible. However, st.CD > qcf+A corner combos still work just as they did previously, only with lowered damage. (I'm updating the wiki to reflect the new values.)

Verdict: Despite the nerfs this is still a really good and important move due to its range, speed, and the ability to get a very advantageous hard knockdown, plus the fact that you can still do st.CD > qcf+A in the corner. The only changes Mai players will need to make in using this move are to be more mindful of spacing, to favor whiff punishing with it over pressing it for the hell of it (which you should have been doing anyway), and to avoid special-cancelling it on block to qcf+A unless you know the opponent will sit still.

Ukihane (j. d+B): Blockstun significantly decreased; this move is no longer positive on block. Unsafe (close C/D punishable) if blocked at head level, minus but safer if blocked lower on the body.

Verdict: A much-needed nerf on a move that was quite frankly too much. It's much more comparable to XIII Ukihane now. And despite the added risk associated, it is still a really good move if you use it the way it was intended to be used: occasionally, with good conditioning, and not hammering people senselessly with it. (Granted, good players could frequently evade the pre-nerf version, but now it's considerably fairer to people less experienced with dealing with the Mai matchup.)

Kachousen (A/C/EX): Hitbox on all fans (flying straight) narrowed horizontally.

Verdict: A very survivable nerf. It doesn't hurt her neutral much at all, it's mostly just intended to further limit the power of st.CD > qcf+A on block and especially to kill Mai's unreactable st.CD > raw MAX > qcf+AC > crossup charge d,u+AC, which was an unreactable meaty crossup (you had to just hold f and know/guess it was coming). Fans are still fine for their intended purpose of locking off some ground space so Mai can move more freely.

j.A: No longer cancellable to air command normals and specials.

Verdict: A sensible nerf to this move to help kill what's left of fuzzy guard IOH setups, as well as to reduce Mai's potential frame advantage/ability to change her air trajectory from early jump A. Still just fine for air-to-air, just not as overwhelming against grounded opponents anymore since now you have to account for the landing recovery.

cl.A: Advantage on hit and block lowered (+0 on block) so that you can no longer link cl.C.

Verdict: A strange nerf, but mostly ineffectual. Despite less advantage on block, the chain routes to other A/B normals from this move will help you create good strings from it, and +0 isn't bad for trapping many characters with her 4f cl.C (didn't notice a nerf to that move).

Overall verdict on post-nerf Mai

I think these nerfs barely hurt her and I think she'll still be one of the stronger characters in the game. (As of the time of this writing, Xiaohai certainly thinks so, going by that tier list of his making the rounds.) She's less overwhelming now, but she still has a REALLY strong neutral game. All her key pokes are the same except st.CD, her Climax Art is still really good, her supers still do the same amount of damage. She still has an excellent time setting the pace of the match with easy and reasonably damaging confirms from any starter. She's still quite worthy of the anchor slot and I look forward to see a healthy amount of sodium generated by this character.

If any of you guys noticed nerfs with Mai that I did not, please feel free to post in this thread or let me know on Twitter (@internetbenreed) and I can update this post. Long may the fans fly!

[cr.B, cr.A, qcf+ABC]

Yeah KoD's Rush Combo being plus on block is a very pleasant surprise. Not worth mashing after the 3rd hit if you have 1 or more bars, but if you don't have enough bar for super, a cr.B hit-confirm to Rush Combo is actually optimal damage, as silly as that sounds. And even if you have to stop on hit, KoD's plus on hit, too.

I played with Quick Max Bypass with KoD and unless I'm missing something major, he doesn't seem to have a lot of use for it. Here's what I played with:
cr.B, cr.A, qcf+ABC: Won't combo. Since you have to start from a C/D normal, may as well do a normal combo to MAX cancel in that case.
cr.B, cr.A, hcb+ABC: Combos, but the grab ends the combo and you just spent a whole bar on one EX move
cr.B, cr.A, qcb+BCD: Won't combo either. Worthless.
cr.B, cr.A, qcf+BCD: I...actually kinda like this one as a surprise shenanigan, simply cause EX Assault Raptor can't be ducked or blocked, and it's hard to react to from a bypass. I can see occasional, successful use of this trick being made if you think your opponent isn't ready for it.

EDIT: I also just tried cr.A > bypass hcb+ABC to see if I could armor through CD counters. Unfortunately, whether the opponent's timing is frame-perfect or slack, a CD counter will always beat the EX Hurricane. So no O.Yash-style plowing through CD counters via bypass with the King.

EDIT 2: Just realized that while you can't armor stuff with bypass hcb+AC, you have a better, cheaper alternative -- just cancel to hcb+C! The C grab will snatch your opponent reliably no matter what it ticked from (though hop attacks like j.CD/j.D would be ideal). Just make sure you use a cancellable normal (or hop-in with huge blockstun) while trying to bait them!

If KoD is cornered, f+A is punishable on hit, but midscreen or with KoD's opponent cornered, I was unable to punish it on hit with any of these moves (standing hit, reversal timing, so as to maximize KoD's frame disadvantage):

Kyo: st.A, st.B, cr.D, qcfx2+AC
Iori: qcf,hcb+AC, qcfx2+BD
KoD: hcb+A, hcbx2+AC

The pushback really saves KoD's ass in this case.

I also tried hitting the opponent with a crossup jC and then doing f+A midscreen just to get a little bit deeper, but it's NOT punishable midscreen. And TBH if somebody was using f+A as KoD while cornered and no meter to MAX Cancel, I'd just have to wonder...why?

The other stuff in your post is quite accurate, though. st.B > hcb+A is huge in footsies, and cr.C is basically foolproof unless you miss entirely with it (very hard to do).

[Notation]

Notation
= Light Punch
= Light Kick
= Heavy Punch
= Heavy Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Dark Pinch - close / +  
Dust Shoot - close / +

Command Normals
Finding - +

Special Moves
The Sorrow - + / (*)
The Rapture - + / (*)
The Pleasure - + / (*)
The Rage - + / (*)

Super Special Moves
The Satisfaction - + / (!)
The Distress - + / (!)

Climax Desperation Move
The Wisdom - +

DC wiki page: http://bit.ly/2uSu0q0
Google doc: http://bit.ly/2ihEBVE

[Notation]

Notation
= Light Punch
= Light Kick
= Strong Punch
= Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Skewer - close / +  
Pin - close / +

Command Normals
Bayonet -  + 
Blunder -  + 

Special Moves
Pawn -  +  /  (*)
Knight -  +  /  (*)
Bishop -  +  /  (in air) (*)
Rook -  +  /  (*)
∟Castling -  [Rook] + / 

Super Special Moves
Queen -  +  /  (!)
King -  +  /  (!)

Climax Desperation Move
Domination -  + 

[Notation]

Notation
= Light Punch
= Light Kick
= Strong Punch
= Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Feint Makura - close / +  
Makura Bomb - close / +

Command Normals
Nezou Rangeki -   +  

Special Moves
Makura Nage -   +   /   (*)
Sen-Siss Hou - charge   +   /   (*)
∟ Follow Up - [Sen-Siss Hou]   /  
Geki Hou - charge   +   /   (*)
Ressen Kyaku -   +   /   (in air) (*)

Super Special Moves
Chou Geki Hou -   +   /   (!)
Hakuchuu Musou -   +   /   (!)

Climax Desperation Move
Daimeiten Hou -   +  

wiki page: http://www.dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Meitenkun_(XIV)#Normals

google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cIevWMZH1hIRX6XqlEOvzesTcMP5Iz9CLyGFkCZlUII/edit

[Notation]

Notation
= Light Punch
= Light Kick
= Strong Punch
= Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Ruten Kyougekijin - close / +  
Hougekiyou - close / +

Command Normals
Chitenzan -  +
Sankaku-Tobi - (near or close to edge of screen)

Special Moves
Annu Mutsube -  +  /  (*)
∟ Follow Up - [Annu Musube C or EX]  +  / 
Rera Mutsube -  +  /  (*)
Amube Yatoro -  +  /  (*)
Clinging to Mamahaha -  +  / 
∟ Yatoro Pokku -  +  / 
∟ Kamui Musube -  +  / 

Super Special Moves
Irusuka Yatoro Rimuse -  +  /  (!)
Inepu Ikashima Wanpe Chuie -  +  /  (!)

Climax Desperation Move
Kanto Kamui Musube -  + 

[immediately]

Here's a Mai crossup shenanigan I kinda like, but most of the reward seems to be biased towards one side of it. Here's how it works:

s.CD > wait > MAX (raw activate), qcf+AC > d~u+AC (immediately, to wall behind opponent, hold for walldive attack)

This makes the 1st hit of the EX fan cross up. In order to block the fan, the opponent has to hold forward on their wakeup. Since the crossup timing happens when Mai performs the walldive immediately after the fan recovers, there's no time to wait and react to see if she does it -- you just have to hold forward on faith.

PROS:
+ Fan crosses up -- guaranteed to hit anybody who doesn't know about it yet
+ Sequence starts a combo if timed properly
+ EX walldive attack is completely safe on block (plus)
+ Crossup is unreactable, you just have to hold forward and assume Mai will commit to the crossup by immediately walldiving. If you start at back and try to switch to forward on reaction to the walldive, you will get hit and Mai gets the combo because it's autopilot.

CONS:
- Safe if fan is blocked, but you go back to neutral because opponent can escape 2nd hit and Mai's not close enough to punish jump back/backdash without Climax Art (expensive)
- There's a gap between the fan and the walldive if the opponent crouch blocks the fan. Otherwise, the fan -> walldive is a true blockstring, because the 1st hit of the EX walldive gets stand blocked.
- If you don't walldive off the fan to make the fan fake-crossup (opponent holds forward and takes the fan to the face), there's no way to combo without immediate YOLO Climax Art (I think, need to double-check). The fan almost certainly won't protect a blocked Climax from punishment, particularly if the opponent guard-cancel rolls.
- Doesn't work against cornered opponent (but that's okay, because the opponent is cornered and there's other, higher-reward stuff available)
- Universally punishable by two methods: (1) guard-cancel roll the fan's 1st hit fiorward, then whiff punish Mai's walldive, or (2) reversal roll the fan, which is legitimately difficult. If you're playing a character such as Mai who has an invulnerable super that hits above her, you might be able to super thru the meaty fan to hit Mai as she flies overhead, but the rapid-fire crossup can make buffering the command legitimately difficult.
- Does not loop the setup back into itself from what I can tell; maybe if you end with super for a hard knockdown, but that's expensive since you have to burn another bar right after to reactivate.

tl;dr if the opponent gets hit by the crossup fan, you get a combo. If the opponent blocks the crossup fan, you're safe if the opponent does not guard-cancel roll the fan (disclaimer: so long as you block the fan, that's not hard). But if you make the fan fake crossup by not doing the walldive or doing a delayed walldive (or other action), you can't do a true combo on hit, and there are way more holes to escape through. So it's a one-sided shenanigan, but it'll almost certainly work 1-2 times before the opponent learns how it works, lol.

Been messing with Sylvie to fill out the wiki and she's definitely growing on me. That OTG MAX Paula Experiment does a lot for her -- for 2 bars, stuff that would otherwise tickle at midscreen, like random st.CD and cr.D hits, suddenly HURTS. She does great damage for 1-2 bars in the corner as well, with some surprisingly easy juggles (then again, I'm used to 13 Mai, who had some strict-ass juggles even with the hold buffer).

I once called her "Kula Minor" in Discord, but I don't think that was fair to her. She might end up being "Kula Major" in this game, but the jury's out on that until people can actually go into the lab with Kula. Her only real limitation is her short reach, but her mobility, safety, and defensive options will help her thread the needle to keep the spacing she needs. Probably not a top character, but definitely a solid one.

The Kagero no Mai juggle into itself is cute, but not that huge. 5 bars for 50% damage, and one of the few characters who can even get high enough on the screen to exploit that property is Mai herself. But it's okay that it's just a gimmick, because Mai deals plenty of damage from other stuff anyway.

I'm not sure the combo Mekikung posted works with Mai as 1st character -- I think you burn thru MAX mode too quickly since the CD wallstick adds some time -- but if you put Mai as 3rd it absolutely works. (Probably 2nd, too, but I haven't checked yet.) You can get a combo almost as damaging with Mai as 1st character if you omit the st.CD and just go straight to cl.C/cl.D > qcb+A after the MAX cancel.

Yeah, D Ninja Bees combos properly regardless of standing or crouching. B version doesn't. That's why all the wiki combos have hcf+D in there.

B>D>qcb+A should be a true blockstring (though vulnerable to guard cancels). B>D>qcf+A should be the only safe string with a gap big enough to escape blockstun. But you're right, the target combo has several ways to be safe on block. However, you have to mix it up with other strings, or smarter opponents WILL figure you out and guard-cancel roll to either escape or possibly punish you (I haven't tested to see how unsafe it is yet...might be hard to punish depending on how fast the D retracts).

Mai hits like a truck for 2 bars and little execution (%53 to 60%):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkYd1jxM5s&app=desktop

Haha, yep, that's going on the wiki if nobody else beats me to it (you're welcome to do so if you have the ability).

I dunno about the damage scaling on the target combo yet; it may deal less damage than C > MAX > C despite doing more hits. But I'll have to check later cause I'm at work right now.

She had a target combo like it in 13, but they've both nerfed and buffed it (net buff) for this version. It can no longer start from far B, so your hit-confirms can't be as long, but it's now special-cancellable no matter what.