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also @ shinsyn compared to shen's charge time in kof 2003 the punch is a lot faster and while you can easily roll out of it, and saying that after charging the move for that long it should guard break. isn't the case for a lot of characters in other fighting games with similar moves. plenty have moves that could be charged longer and the opponent has the to do something similar to a roll and block at the same time.

just so you don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the nerf.

It's cool.  I'm sure most of us aren't a fan of this nerf but it's still holds a great discussion for the character.

The 2003's version of the charge punch was way too long if you ask me.  If the user was crazy enough to hold that full charge to attempt a guard break, the user be punished.  Most charge moves that are in fighting games that gives you the option to hold the attack, and it's a physical attack (Mind you, there aren't many), it guard crushes.  

Projectiles (more common moves that can be fully charged in fighters) do not fall under the category of guard crushing, on the exception of 2 that I know of; Ryu's Denjin Hadouken, and Yuri's Alternate Fireball (Similar to Ryu's Denjin Hakoukenin) in 2003 but in these cases, those projectiles just say guarding is irrelevant.  In the end, it does stun which in a sense leave you as/if not more vulnerable after being hit with it.

[Yes, I just compared DM's to a Super, reason being is that the moves that Guard Crush on contact with charge in these games are DM's, Shen's DM does not have the Charge-Guard Break option so his Super move does.]

I can understand this nerf being something done for the "Interest of Fairness" for those who can't avoid and punish it, but it's an unnecessary nerf IMO since you have various options to avoid the situation of being guard crushed by it.  But if it's true that there was an unavoidable set up for it, they could do what someone noted earlier, have it set to get rid of 75% of the guard gauge.

Well, this is how the game was made, and there's no changing it so I really don't have much of a choice, but to deal with it though.

Well, with my experience, netplay has been great.  I've only had one bad connection and my good connections are with people who are of great distances.  I'm on the PS3 and have a wired connection, just to give you guys an example of the distances



Good Connections:

Myself: Illinois
Opponent: SoCal
Connection: 3 Bars
Little to no lag, just online input delay (As it usually is going from Offline to Online), I was able to pull off combos and even complete my HD combos with our connection.  Adjusting from offline to online was really quick, I had no complaints with our connection.

Myself: Illinois
Opponent: Pennsylvania
Connection: 3 Bars
Virtually no lag, just online input delay (as stated before), Same thing with the connection with my cousin from SoCal; no issues, able to cope with difference from offline to online delay, and I had no complaints with our connection.

Bad Connection:

Myself: Illinois
Opponent: Michigan
Connection: 3 Bars
The lag was horrendous, we had to synchronize every round we played and I couldn't even do BnB's in our connection because of the delay and random spikes we had.  Virtually unplayable.

I find it funny that the people furthest away from me gives me some of the best connections I've played in some fighting games and the one who's only 5 hours away, maybe less than 300 miles away lagged the worst with me.  TBH, I'm sure it all depends on both player's setups, being wired and how the ping strengths of each connection are.

The netcode could use some work but it's not as bad as some others are saying.  Either way, I'm going to play XIII because I'm lucky enough to enjoy the game offline because there is a scene here in Chicago and I can go up to Michigan once every 2 weeks to make it to Casuals out there if I wanted to.

It won't die that fast.  If it flops at NEC and SCR, THEN we're in trouble as far as the game itself goes.

But don't expect the netcode to get better.

^ This so much!  Yeah, the netcode may not be up to par for some people, but its playable, and if the game does well in an offline setting, it's going to thrive.

The game just came out, if people are trading it in now they weren't going to keep playing anyway. 

This is possibly the best and most on point post I've seen in this thread.

What's going on guys,

Long time lurker and with the release of XIII on consoles, I've decided to make an account.  Been playing KOF since 96 and have not stopped since, and with the way XIII is blowing up right now, I don't see me playing any other fighter seriously for awhile now.

I've usually do posts of Match up videos for BlazBlue but now that XIII is out, expect there to be footage of Online/Offline casuals on the channel.

PSN: ShinSyn
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrShinSyn?feature=mhee

I'm up for some matches in XIII if the connection's good (BTW, I'm out in Chicago); I'm always in for a good fight, or learning something through a good old fashion beat-down, LOL!

[I think they should make it so it takes off 75 guard gauge]

yeah after the change there really isn't any point in charging it since by the time you get their guard low enough to
crushing they're probably going to no to escape.

but on the flip side don't you think it's a little unfair that if you mess up and block it on accident that you eat a super.  

Not really, if the opponent can't roll against such an obvious move they should be punished for it, I mean it's not like you don't see it coming.  The reward of a full charged move should be (in theory) a guard break if it makes contact, especially if you have to stand there for a fair amount of time to charge it.

The fact that he had a guard crush move make it reasonable that his mix up was lackluster (outside of HD mode), at least that's the way I see it.  Shen is still a viable character even without it, it was just something that bugged me.

As a Shen user myself, the nerf does seem excessive.  At high level game play nobody gets hit by that charge punch, and yes, it is very punishable.  I think they should make it so it takes off 75 guard gauge because at the rate the guard gauge replenishes, you'd have to to take him down to 40% then charge the punch if you want to get that guard crush.

BTW, welcome to DC ShinSyn, don't forget to introduce yourself properly over at the meet and greet section.

I can agree with the bold in this post after looking at it from his perspective.  If the punch took away 75% of the guard gauge, then I can see it still being a viable tool to use in high level play.

And thanks for the welcome.  I was a lurker here and decided to post up since XIII is released on consoles.  And I will stop in here to introduce myself.

I'm really enjoying Shen in this game, he's a good character in my book even with his limitations which aren't that limited.  The only thing I don't like is that his Punch charged at Max, doesn't crush guard anymore, it just doesn't make sense and kinda kills the whole point of charging it all the way.

Was there a specific reason behind that nerf because it was punishable if someone timed a roll correctly right?