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Fist of the North Star

broken beyond belief

Oh man....

I know it's Hokuto No Ken and all (and thus by nature, is unbalanced)....but come on ASW, am I supposed to let you get away with that? I know balance isn't as high in your agenda as zany character designs but come now, GET SERIOUS!

And don't bother trying to understand the Japanese...they're incredibly complex, look no further than SNKP itself. As for the rest of the world, most may be sheeps simply guided by the profit motive and social trends...but at least they're predictable, and when you did something they don't like, they let you know about it. No offense, but from my first-hand experience as an analyst of an export company, the Japanese are one of the most difficult people to do business with. As for SBO? the reason for whatever happened there is purely behind closed-doors, it's all very mysterious and stuff.

SCV? it's nice....but nice is as far as I would go. Also, perhaps it was overshadowed by its own prequels, lacking enough good qualities to truly make it the "Soul Calibur to play these days"

Also 2.5D is tricky, the final game is in 2D plane. But the characters and objects are 3D models. The reason for this is simply to reduce cost of making sprites, maybe aesthetics? It's a corner-cutting method, since it gives no respectable quality of its own (2D? not quite as cartoony, 3D? no side-stepping WTF). So the "SNKP method" would be the best for 2.5D nowadays, using 3D models but designed and ultimately refined to be 2D sprites. Since, you know...the game is in 2D anyway.

Oh, it's all in good fun. Besides unless Xxenace really IS a disgraced porn-star, I don't see how it could be serious, plus this is the off-topic thread after all.

With that sort of view we'll never get to the heights of RTS and shooters because that's an archaic way of thinking

I think it is unlikely that fighting games would ever be as big as those two. But sure, it could be bigger that what it is now. Fighting games are very confrontational, only highly competitive people can derive enjoyment from them. Most average people are turned off from such direct competition. Even in FPS you often cooperate with your teams and even if you spent your time underachieving, your team can still win, in RTS you ordered little people or machines around, and your opponent's little people and building, it's very indirect. Fighting games are very direct, very competitive, it's in their very nature that fighting games are repulsive to most.

but you don't have to be hardheaded about its necessity

oh, but I can't change my deeply-held opinion man. Please respect my point of view, even if it's wrong and archaic and old-fashioned, I think it is true. But if you insist, then I'm sorry, and I really think that in-depth tutorials are necessary. There....I believe you are satisfied, hmm? now can we move on?

I have an interesting question that I will ask to everybody: It is an interesting topic, I think.

[spoiler]"Do you believe that fighting games will be as big as RTS and/or FPS some day in the future?"[/spoiler]

I thought KoF XIII did well all over

It did fairly well, just wasn't as well as people thought it would. But here's a small consolation, it came out MUCH later in Japan than the rest of the world, plus they get their DLCs fairly late too.

Meaning? SNKP already accounted for it, they knew Japan would not show as much interest in KOF XIII like the 90's anymore, so they focused most of their effort on the rest of the world. Isn't that a good thing?

KOFXIV is the safest bet for them right now.

Whhhatt? come on....I would've loved a new IP!

But I agreed, MOTW 2 should just be euthanized before it became a freakish, frankenstein game. A completely new Fatal Fury would be nice or my personal fave, one of those SNK's samurai games. Samsho and LastBlade. Anyway, they should start branching out a little, it's suicidal to keep riding the wave of just one title.

Ey ey are we talking about SFIV here or SF3? hahaha anyway, Sf3 is good stuff...but I heard about it too late. So yeah, too little exposure to the public. Plus too drastic a change, it felt simply too shocking for the long-time SF players, had Capcom persevered, SF3 might be successful.

Listen, Proto...all I'm saying is, whether SFIV is a god-given gift to FGC now DEPENDED on what games you hold dear. I completely understand the points (I even agreed they are legitimate) you said about SFIV being the very reason we all have these wonderful fighting games being made again, it's just that I don't agree with it. And so far, everything you said didn't convince me. You'd best leave the issue for a while...it's no big deal.

The same goes for the tutorial bit, I'm not making fun of them. All I'm saying was we managed without tutorials before, why can't we manage now? it's not about "exceeding" my skills, I have very little anyway, it's about newer players needing more hand-holding, and in my view THAT IS NOT RIGHT. But time's changed as I said, and I decided to follow your view that in-depth tutorial is essential and therefore needed.....but here's MY point of view: I think the lack of tutorial is just fine.
I said "Go ahead, but I think it's unnecessary"

I have zero hope in snkp surviving next gen

Wall of text alert
[spoiler]
Here's my analysis:
1-The situation
All that we know so far is that Climax will be limited run, and very expensive to boot. SNK's games on Nesica are not doing well either, plus we heard from prof that SNK didn't really promote KOF 13 in Japan (although to be fair, they did the first preview there and loketests are also there, plus their blogs and videos are all in japanese so....that counted as promotion to me, compared to what we got here)
2-My reasoning
Climax will be limited run, because SNKP is aware that KOF XIII arcade will not last. They produced a small number, and priced it outrageously because: They did not expect it to sell, but if it DID then they'll at least make a hefty profit. Why? they knew that their titles do very poorly in arcades (in Japan), with all the Gundam and P4Arena...so they won't even bother.
3-My conclusion
It looked to me that their trying to escape the arcade business (which is on its death knell anyway), trying to be not too dependent on it, and expand instead to handheld, and internet/network games. They're trying to find another source of easy and stable revenues on which to build their console titles (the REAL moneymaker these days), they learned also that the rest of the world paid more attention to them than Japan itself (Japanese KOF players are very RARE compared to say...South Americans or Chinese). If you read the last blog entry, it seemed that they are considering an English (or Chinese) language blog. Japan's taste has changed, KOF is no longer THE cool fighting game. It's Persona4Arena and Arcana and Blazblue and Gundam and that sort of games.

If you put these all together you will get the feeling that since SNKP got a new CEO last year or so...there will be massive changes within SNKP.
1-New Gaming division, the casual/portable/network gaming division. For whatever purpose...The SNK Dream Battle (the Gree thing) might be its first project.
2-Pachislot business is rather growing (their Sister Quest pachi got an award or something, plus its expanding into non-pachi game, although in Mobage, a JP mobile service.) Samsho pachislot used Madhouse animations and Super Otousan used Soundtracks from popstars (if I'm not mistaken).
3-KOF games for Ios and Android and Neo Geo X (maybe a one time gig, it doesn't do well), heralded a new interest in handhelds.
4-They're hiring more aggresively (right in the front page) this may signal a failing workforce, or the exact opposite, an ambitious project is on the way.
[/spoiler]
Eh...of course don't take any of these too seriously, it's just the way I figured things. So last word: Relax, we'll see how things are going, we're much better off than say....during the first few days of KOF XII.

mostly the arguing

Argument is a sign that we take things seriously, well at least we cared enough to argue about whatever it is hahaha. So people are arguing eh?....well that's a good sign, it means that the community is not apathetic to its subject matter.

So some people WERE influenced by SFIV, to the point where they started considering fighting game seriously. So SFIV do contributes greatly to the FGC....but I think every fighting games at one point did this. I mean, if there's no SS2, I probably will not be here. If there's no KOF XIII, no Dreamcancel. Point is, that I believed EVERY fighting games that ever existed at one point, helped the growth of FGC. It just happened to be SFIV for Proto and Xxenace.

So here's my conclusion....the size and influence of FGC depends on the influence of the titles that is currently out there (so far the lasy few years we only got less than 10)...imagine if this is the 90's and we already got internet and youtube and stuff....plus all those hundreds of fighting games, WOW for one thing there'll be ALOT more people playing Karnov's Revenge hahaha. (Still, I can't get over the fact that people need tutorials for bnbs in 2012...that's just sad...but I guess that's the way to go)

well street fighter 4 wasn't my first fighting game but it was the fighting game that got me to take them a little bit more seriously, before then i didn't really play fighting games all that much. that count?

Well, close enough...

So! how do you feel about the FGC currently? is it big and exciting? does it offer new things to look forward to? or does it felt like a small scale hobbyist convention that is going nowhere?

I've been reading up on the tutorial comments, and it seems that I was misunderstood. All I'm saying is that I believed people can easily come with their own bnbs, heck, that's what we do for a decade since the inception of fighting games right? So I'm sure tutorials not covering bnbs would be just fine.

I say this from experience because if it weren't for the fact that Tekken gave me some basics to start up, I wouldn't have appreciated the game at all

Maybe we came to a different conclusion since we have different views...I'm kinda an old school player...I hardly ever used tutorials, nor the combos they offered. But I appreciate many games because they are fun, that's enough for me. I had fun when I lost, even when I'm spazzing like a dumb-ass...then I started learning why I lost, and learn subtle things that the tutorials sometimes do not cover. If I used tutorials, and then win I kinda feel hollow...since you know...it's not my own effort. But this is just me okay?

All I'm saying is, the fighting game genre is just fine the way it is. But since one cannot stop progress, then I guess we should add bnb's to tutorials as you wished, although in my opinion we kinda set the bar even lower. But I believed you are more qualified to comment on this than me...you understand the mindset of current gamers more (you told me so right?), so I defer to your judgement.

teach the player some good Bnbs

I kind of disagree with this one, tutorials are necessary...but showing us basic bnb? isn't that something we're supposed to figure out on our own?

That's no fun, with tutorials players are constricted to play on what is viewed as the "official" way to play the game. Why can't we not mock gamers' intelligence? they're old enough to figure it out on their own...and half the fun in a fighting game is figuring stuff out! remember how flabbergasted we were when people pop out a completely unknown combo? well, that can rarely happen now.

You may argue that new players don't like getting their asses kicked. Well...the whole point of the game is ass-kicking. Of the two people playing, ONE of them will be the loser, by now we should be accepting this fact.

Here's a simple test....who among us here call SFIV their first fighting game? Hopefully there are some, so we can ask them instead about how much SFIV contributed to the reviving of FGC.

If there is none.....well....

Eyyy here's one of Athena and Momoko IN COLOR!!...never mind the Pesoguin.

SFIV helped revive the FGC.

Now now, you're giving SFIV too much credits. Let's say SFIV never came out, would it means that the genre is doomed? KOF XII was already under development, so did Blazblue. Heck, with all the questionable things Capcom "standardized" in the fighting game development with SFIV, and later on MVC3, I am beginning to question if it might actually be better had SFIV never came along. The FGC never needs reviving, they'll always be those hardened, badass souls who enjoys 2D or 3D pugilism more than anything else.

For me, fighting game is zenith of gaming genre, dwarfing all other lesser escapist games. It takes a special kind of guy to enjoy the thrill of battling against fellow human beings, a fighting game is a proving ground, during the most intense moment you can tell a man's tenacity, determination and cunning. There's no other people here, just you and your opponent...in winning you are elated and proud, in defeat you are angry and defiant.

Man....what a drama eh?

I do get tired of people calling games like KOF, BB, GG, and AH as "anime games" or as SFIV and Marvel 3 as "scrub games".

Too bad that's the view of the majority of people, so you can tell we got a long way to go. But whatever they call it, at least they enjoyed some of the games.