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I will have a seperation write up but I have to completely disagree terry has no issues vs karate in neutral in fact he does better than karate because he controls more of the screen than he does.

This thread will be dedicated to how to deal with characters with Duo. In order to make it easier explained what character you are having trouble with before writing down your issues and solutions you should title what the match up is. you don't have to do this if you don't want to it will just make it easier to look out for specific characters.

eg.

(Duo Lon vs ???)
[text Here]

I'm genuinely interested in getting this ball rolling.

I'll be posting match up analysis when I can.

That iori match up is really lacking being an iori player that match up isn't nearly as simplistic as you all make it sound, iori has air superiority, a fast hop and poke in jump b that makes it pretty hard for you to zone considering when we read psycho balls or react to your animations we can jump d or b you in the head for free damage or a potential combo. Not to mention with one bar we can Qcb+BD through fireballs. If you attempt lows qcb+c low crushes.

Yeah, I meant the third but I wrote second.

I actually pulled it off a few times yesterday in practice. I was just hoping it would be more reliable and practical.
Like I said in one of the previous posts, I had a weird problem with the 1003 damage combo - I was running out of HD before I could activate NM, but I got rid of that issue.

Yeah, you just have to do the neo max slightly before the rip.

Glad you have that down now. It's much more beneficial and reliable.

[Reward Assessment: A general outlook on a character’s average damage and heat gain, taking into account how often maximum or minimum damage situations can occur. Also assess other potential rewards]

So I feel that discussion here tends to slow down a lot from time to time, and I would like to provide a suggestion to help with that. Take a look at this Dustloop thread regarding Blazblue Continuum Shift: Extend (BBCSEX)

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4368-bbcs-extend-tier-list-thread/

To give the big takeaway from this, Xie uses a set of parameters to rate each character and come to an overall rating (NOTE: NOT the average of the above ratings). Here are what he used and how I think we can apply them to KOF (where applicable):

Reward Assessment: A general outlook on a character’s average damage and heat gain, taking into account how often maximum or minimum damage situations can occur. Also assess other potential rewards.

Definitely applicable in terms of average damage and meter gain, as well as how often a character can land full damage based on different combo starters from different situations.


Neutral Viability: A review of how well the character fairs in neutral situations, especially in respect to how the character can shift into an offensive or damage dealing state, as well as avoid being put into a defensive or receiving damage state.

Also highly applicable. Space control options (different angles of aerials, projectiles, jump arcs, etc.) present several good comparison points.


Offensive Viability: An overview of the character’s ability to create damage opportunities when they have the advantage, as well as prevent the opponent from escaping or safely retaliating.

Pretty self-explanatory. Some characters in KOF maintain pressure better than others, while others make up for lack of solid pressure by using potentially damaging mixups and traps.


Defensive Viability: An evaluation of the character’s ability to escape from situations where they are at a disadvantage or create opportunities to retaliate.


Strength of reversals and unique defensive options would weigh the most here.

Versatility: A flavorful descriptor with little impact on tier placing, a brief assessment of how many options the character has at any given time. Ranks: Very Specialized > Specialized > Well Rounded > Very Well Rounded

Don't know how much we can use this (or how much it would matter) due to KOF's more universal character design when compared to Blazblue.


One-Chance: A flavorful descriptor with little impact on tier placing, an assessment of how well the character can make a comeback in a one-chance situation. Takes into account meter availability, potential mixups, useful reversals, and damage.

Tough one to use as well. HD combos give many characters a way to "One Chance" a victory. On the other hand, certain characters have much scarier ways to convert their chance (e.g. Vice with full HD and an EX sleeve handy)

Current Assessment: General assessment of all factors. Current placement on the list


Final grade. As noted above, this would not be an average of the above factors, but rather how the factors come together to form the package that is the character.

One I would add would be:

Team Flexibility: How well a character adjusts to being on different spots in a team in terms of meter need/usage relative to their teammates, as well as how they adjust to opponent's different options and resources based on their position

The team dynamic makes a difference as we have pointed out numerous times in this thread.




I think we can do something like this here, where we could have a week-long discussion for each character where one member presents their assessment, and we go back and forth on how we view the different factors and come to a conclusion by the end of the week. Once that's done for all characters we can compile a Dream Cancel tier list based on that. The list isn't the goal, however. The goal is to have a real in-depth discussion of the characters' strengths and weaknesses that can help new information come to light, especially when considering lesser-played characters.

As for which members suggest the character discussions, I wouldn't know how to establish a priority among us, so for now all I can suggest is that goes in turns, and no one member can start the discussion twice in a row.


Please let me know what you guys think. If you feel you have a better way to conduct the discussion (timelines, parameters, etc.) do mention that as well.

I genuinely love this idea. Nothing else really to say about it other than we should get the ball Rolling on this ASAP

That was just a simple typo that you could've looked over, especially since he said the word JUGGLE.  If he's capable of doing the standard hd, why the hell would he ask about doing the second df+C right after activation?  You should already know what he's referring to if you know anything about the combo.

I've done the combo and that wasn't what I'd consider a typo.

I skipped that in the juggle part because after reading the notation and reading his statement I figured I knew what the combo was about so forgive me (also in English generally if you skip anything it's the things in parenthesis not the actually meat of the sentence) . Also, if you all know there is a spacing specific combo that is reasonably difficult but we have a kill combo that can kill for 3 that's 5x easier why not direct him toward that.


Also, I apologize these gentleman are correct it is spacing specific but kind of a waste of time to learn when there is a much easier death combo. Unless you are just doing it for fun.

[df+C]

He's talking about the df C on a juggled opponent, not the one on a standing opponent. Not sure why you would be calling people on their BS when you're misreading the post to begin with.

I'll even bold it for you so you don't misread again:

j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+B (DC) dp+C, df+C, dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcb+A, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD

Therefore kin3tix was correct to begin with and you're the one spewing the wrong information.

He said he was missing the second df+c second df+c is the HD activation one.... Read the notation

I misread nothing I read exactly what the guy said.

Also stop doing that combo dude.lol

Do this one j.C, cl.C, df+C (HD) cl.C, df+C, dp+A (DC) qcb+D (DC) dp+C, qcb+b, (DC) dp+C, qcb+B (DC) dp+C, qcb+B, qcf hcb+P (MC) qcfx2+BD 1003 damage and it's easier. With no jump it's 972

If you're doing the df C too close to the corner, it's going to whiff. As said earlier, it's spacing specific.

no it's not. Lol st c>df+c activate> st c> df+c is not spacing specific he is canceling it while he is too far away from the target he isn't close enough to the person's body so he is getting push back and it's making it whiff he isn't letting the HD slide get him close enough to the person. Don't tell me any it's spacing specific bs because I do this combo all the damn time there is no specific spacing for it and I'll prove it so you'll be quite and stop giving the wrong information to people

Wiki updated with Kim matchup! For those who haven't followed the discussions on the FB group for KOF13 players, I am gathering info from fellow Terry players to buff up our matchup section in order to have clearer knowledge on how to fight the cast. I feel Terry is heavily dependent on good matchup knowledge due to the simplicity of his core style, and needs an extra edge. Please let me know how it looks!

Actually Terry's base game isn't easy. people mistake basic combos with basic game play and that needs to stop. He is to play hard to master. Lots of stuff goes Into properly playing Terry.

It works just fine regardless

Just have to make sure they are high enough for the crackshoot d

Hi everyone, quick question

Is there a trick to getting the second rising tackle to hit during an HD combo? I do:

EX Burn Kunckle -> C Rising Tackle (DC) -> C Burn Knuckle -> D Crack Shoot. I try to follow up with C Rising Tackle Again but it keeps dropping. What I doing wrong?

Whatever combo you're doing for only a bar best you'll honestly get is 712

Do this instead because even for 1 bar it does more than whatever you're going for currently

http://youtu.be/rbCZ-_i0FEU



This is me performing the combo

One other thing I'm confused about is the defensive options post? Are they referencing to lack of invincibility without meter? Because in between jump back b, jump back d, taco back dash, dp.a, cl st c, cr c, cl st d I think he does fine. I would really like it if the person who posted that elaborated on it a bit.

Because if the lack of an invincible reversal without is what was being referenced then I'd think I'd be better to say that.

I have an issue with iori having bad okizame listed under cons. Iori has a lack of many hard knockdowns, but when he does get a kd soft or hard he has a plethora of options to mix an opponent up. Up close he has a standing low so he can do empty hop cl st B or cr b both of which lead into a combo and close st b can be comboed off of which will lead to big damage since it links to cl st c. Empty hop command grab, run up command grab, over head (which if blocked is -2), safe jump c, safe jump cd, and taco backdash bait are all good ones

Okay. Do you think bad oki should be exchanged for "lack of many hard knockdowns" as you mentioned in your first sentence?

Lack of hard knock downs is there. The issue is that it's paired with bad okizame saying he doesn't get many hard knock downs, and even if he did he wouldn't be able to capitalize well. So, I just feel bad oki should be removed

I have an issue with iori having bad okizame listed under cons. Iori has a lack of many hard knockdowns, but when he does get a kd soft or hard he has a plethora of options to mix an opponent up. Up close he has a standing low so he can do empty hop cl st B or cr b both of which lead into a combo and close st b can be comboed off of which will lead to big damage since it links to cl st c. Empty hop command grab, run up command grab, over head (which if blocked is -2), safe jump c, safe jump cd, and taco backdash bait are all good ones

I also have a beef with the whole can easily be zoned without meter inbetween iori's run speed, hyper hop range, and jump/hop speeds I have virtually no issue making my way toward an opponent. J b is the biggest FU to projectiles I've ever seen in terms of normals to beat projectiles. I think it certainly gets easier to around projectiles with meter, but I don't think maneuvering around them is particularly.