Messages

Thanks Colifolwerz!  Very helpful starting point.  I've been giving a look at Luong to fill my point slot.  I've been interested in playing her prior to release, but then took a pass when the game first came out since I didn't feel immediately comfortable with her because of her kit and execution requirements (it's really not that difficult in the realm of KoF but was for me out of the gate).  Now that I feel more comfortable with my play, the value she has as a point (great damage in the 0-2 meter ranges), and the fact I still like her style / look I thought it was time to spend some time with her.

One question I had, I don't know if it's the animation that is causing this perception or not, but does her jump seem a lot floatier / slow then other jumps.  It seems like there is a greater disparity between her hops and jumps than when compared to other characters hops and jumps?  Just feels like she hangs in the air forever.

After running the circuit characters, I've ended up back at the big cyborg as a solid anchor for my main team. Seems to continue to fit both my style and my current execution level.  Some things I've been noticing:

• More guard points then I originally found during my lab work for the write up.
  
  
  
  • cr.HP seems to have one that works with both upper and lows, need to test
  • st.HK seems to have one that works with lows as well that I didn't see before meaning I might have assume GPs with Maxima was upper body hits only, but might be case by case
  • Will be heading back to the lab to find all of them and I'll update my post above accordingly
    
• j.HP - the body splash, is ridiculously easy to convert off of. That's nothing new but just to call it out again because it's just that good.
• At certain ranges 2-hits of st.HP will cause the df.HP command normal to whiff ending the combo and could leave you open to command throws or fast supers.  Either I need to learn those ranges, or it might for consistency be better to always cancel off the 1st hit of st.HP into df.HP, will need to lab.
• It can be tempting to dump all your bars with how easy it is to do so with Maxima, but this doesn't mean you should.  Having a bar to raw activate MAX or 2 to have access to an invincible move (MAX Atomic Laser) can be useful. Short version, don't spend it all unless you are going to finish off their team.  Something that is probably true for most of the cast.

Don't sleep on Meitenkun's damage potential, 1 bar MAX Mode cancel, corner combo 528

https://clips.twitch.tv/juicebox_fgc/CautiousHornetTinyFace

j.C, cl.C, f.B xx MAX, cl.C, f.B xx {b}f.AC, {d}u.C, {d}u.AC, {b}f.C, C

just in case it wasn't clear {} indicates a direction that needs to be charged.

That they do.  The issue is what you get for doing it?  I would have to test to see if at those ranges you can MAX cancel and have enough time to get a close anything to continue the combo with.  If so, that seems good, two more ways to off load the bars built up over the match.  If not, not sure the meter to get 1/2 a MAX Mode is worth generally speaking (I'm sure there is specific situations there are).

2 Bar 61% percent combo

https://twitter.com/TheN4Us/status/770119319510478853

Since I did it for the other one:

cl.D xx MAX, cl.D, DP+BD, qcb+AC, hcf+C, qcf+C, qcfx2+BD

• In the twitter responses there was talk that was st.C after the qcb+AC (at least I'm pretty sure that is what you were referring to). You can see the flames prior to the super cancel and no blue flash on the move indicating it was Heavy Sansetsu with the followup (hcf+C, qcf+C)
• Corner only, pretty much for the same reasons as the other combo above
• Also can go right from the qcf+C from the Sansetsu followup right into the qcf+BD to get the super
• This has to be done in the anchor position if you want to do this for only 2 Bars, but can still be done with 3 bars in other positions. There is enough time to get the EX.Suzume before the timer runs out even in the point position, just make sure to hit both BD for the super (which you don't have to do in the anchor position).

Nice low hit confirm 2 bar combo from El Rosa @ WNF

https://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/v/85557840?t=2h00m14s

I clipped the combo to make it a little easier to watch over and over: https://clips.twitch.tv/leveluplive/BraveCormorantBrokeBack

cr.B, cr.B xx MAX, cr.C, f.B xx qcb+AC, hcf+A xx qcfx2+BD
Notes:

• You can go from the hcf into 1 qcf to get the super since the first qcf should already be buffered.
• Corner only, you don't have to be right up against it but close enough that the EX Suzume (qcb+AC) doesn't fling your opponent so far the forward motion of the Super doesn't catch them on the first hit. If you go into training mode your foot needs to be around 2.5 squares from the corner in order for the first hit of the super to connect.

Something I've been thinking about too is that MAX Mode has and additional cost, while in it you build absolutely no meter. This includes meter you would normally build while being hit, not just meter you build connecting (hit/block) hits on your opponent or using specials.  So the real cost of MAX Mode is actually more then 1 bar.

Of course there are a lot of characters out there that do get a significant boost in damage with MAX Mode cancel combos, Maxima just isn't one of them. At least not that I've seen yet.

That said his supers confirm really easily either with a Vapon Cannon connect or a Maxima Press especially if you are going across the map to hit to smash the opponent against the wall.  That is where I found Maxima to be very dangerous. A cleverly timed Maxima Press will take away 74% of your opponents life for 5 bars

I've updated my notes, and just quoted your findings. Thanks again for that update!

Was just about to post that one as well, amazing work showing what is possible when you start adding in the teleports to his combos.

Took a bit longer then I expected to settle into a main team. Been having a lot of fun just doing lab work on a bunch of the cast to figure out what I like.

Main Team: Muimui, Maxima, Terry

Future Members to switch in and out:
Joe
Nelson
Geese
Banderas
Angel

So here's the work I did on his normals, moves, and some other various notes while I was in the lab with Maxima.

Here's also the video companion I did explaining these as well (will link once uploaded): https://youtu.be/VUBp8UcN2R4

To talk about Maxima's neutral game we have to talk about Guard Points (sometimes referred to as Armor). Some normals, specials, and supers have GPs that will block a hit while performing that action. Maxima has several of these. It important to note that all of the grounded moves that have them will NOT block low hits or grounded fireballs.  It seems in my testing so far it also only good for one hit, though I have seem other moves like Gang-il's Shakka Shuu absorb multiple hits, so I could be wrong about that point. I just have not seen evidence yet that Maxima's get more then one hit.

Any move that has a Guard Point I'll note with the abbreviation GP.

Normals

st.LP: +1 on block, cancels, and Anti Air
st.LK: -1 on block, poke
st.HP: unsafe, GP, Anti Air
st.HK: -4, GP, poke

cl.LP: +1 on block, cancels, use to tick / combo into Command Throw
cl.LK: -3 on block, cancels, not found any use
cl.HP: -2 on block, 2 hits, cancels either hit
cl.HK: -4 on block, cancels

cr.LP: Even on block, cancels
cr.LK: +1 on block
cr.HP: -2 on block, cancels
cr.HK: unsafe

CD: unsafe
j.CD: very plus on block, drop kick, the extension makes it great for anti-airs

j.LP: cross up, decent nj.Air to Air
j.LK: fj.Air to Air
j.HP: cross up, body splash, very large hit box so it can be very ambiguous (my favorite normal in the game so far, just lots of fun)
j.HK: cross up, downward angle jump

Throws:

Forward Throw - leaves you at full screen away, except when the opponent is already against the wall or close to it
Back Throw - Hard KD though that's just to cover Maxima's recovery from the throw, left at a little less then round start distance

Command Normals: df.HP - Up angled attack, can be used as an Anti Air and combo extender.  Be aware there are certain ranges this will miss as a combo extender, you’ll need to learn these ranges so you don’t drop combos.  It is however still fairly safe at around minus 2-3 on block.  Suggestion would be at the ranges it would drop to use cr.HP instead with an empty cancel of the L.Vapor Cannon.  Just make sure to confirm the cr.HP hit before completing the cancel.

Specials

M-4 Vapor Cannon - qcb+P - [110/110/117] - Power Punch
Heavy: GP
EX: Causes a wallbounce

Air M-4 Vapor Cannon - in air qcb+P - [110/100/134] - Power Punch in the air
EX: GP

M-19 Blitz Cannon - DP+K - [150/150/192] Flys up and catches the opponent and throws them back down. Works in essence like a DP.

• The distance traveled is the same  for Light and Heavy, EX travels further
• EX is fully invincible, has an additional hit immediately on startup

Maxima Press - hcb+K (follow up qcb+P) [70/70/142 - 117/117/187 with the follow up]
Light: Command Throw, does not move, fully invincible on startup
Heavy: Dashes forward into a Command Throw, longer startup then Light
EX: Can be blocked, not a command throw, but starts up much faster than Heavy and still dashes.

Supers

Double Vapor Cannon - qcfx2+P [200 / 318] - Super version of the Vapor Cannon Attack
GP for both versions

Atomic Laser - qcfx2+K [177/330]  - Beam Attack
MAX is invincible on startup

Climax

MX-III CIWS Launcher - hcbx2+PP - [470] - Dash attack when hit starts animation that confirms all damage

• GP
• Has a long reach on the start of it, but dashes forward if that doesn’t reach
• Still is vulnerable to lows and ground fireballs.

Side Notes about Max Mode canceling with Maxima

Maxima may not want to MAX Mode cancel for several reasons:

• Max Mode cancels do less damage than non-Max Mode combos that spend the same amount of bar with the exception of very specific corner combos.
• This is due to only EX Vapor Cannon being the only extender from a wall bounce.  All other EX moves will end the combo and you can’t just chain EX Vapor Cannons.
• The only way to cancel into a super is using the wall bounce from EX Vapor Cannon or using the bounce to hit a normal Vapor Cannon and cancel from that as you cannot cancel a Super from an EX move directly.
• Low light confirms can cancel into Command Normal to provide combo paths to the high damage combos without a MAX Mode cancel.  Furthermore if the low light hit confirm starts out far enough where the Command Normal would not connect, there is no cancelable normal that you can confirm into by using MAX Mode cancel to continue the combo.
• EX moves Maxima have in general are far better than their normal counterparts by a larger margin than I’ve seen then other characters I’ve dabbled with the lab so far

From this I’ve concluded that typically if you are going to MAX Mode you are going to raw activate it to gain access to his high powered tools rather than canceling into it to provide a higher powered combo.

Nice work on the combos!  The biggest issue I was having was finding anything MAX-mode cancels could do that would out class a non-MAX mode combo and it never occurred to me to cancel the 1st hit of cl.HP into Command Normal. So thanks for that info.

Still with the one corner combo doing more damage though with similar starters I think we'll see more raw activation with Maxima rather than MAX-mode cancels as the EX moves by themselves are very nice and it's one of the times when the damage is just easier to get from the non-MAX mode cancels that it's not worth the possible extra combo drop points. But still going to at least get those corner combos down, and maybe a couple others for the occasional style points

I'm still going to put together a video, like have so far with Kukri, Love, and Muimui on Maxima's normal's, moves, etc to go a little in depth with those, but I'll refer to your posts and video for the combo parts so there won't be so much of me fumbling around trying to do them live.

Thanks Desmond. I did find that as well but possibly my timing was off as I kept dropping a lot of the damage and my initial conclusion it wasn't worth the bar investment.  I'll spend some more time with that since Muimui is definitely in my roster now and adjust my notes accordingly.

I thought I was able to stuff it still on a meaty high attack, but I'll go back and double check. My notes tend to be a little messy till I transfer it onto a word doc / forums, so I could've just misread them.

Also anything to counter play Nakoruru is very helpful.

Combos

Meterless

cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, st.LK xx H.Tornado Kick (174)

cl.HP, f.LP xx H.Rekkas (222, 232 is starting with cl.HK)

• It’s easier to get a cl.HP then a cl.HK due to cl.HP activating much farther out. So it tends to be more practical to hit

st.HK, cr.LP, st.LK xx H.Tornado (204)

1-Meter Super

cl.HP, f.LP xx H.Rekkas xx Beam Super (355 / 345 in corner)

1-Meter Max Cancel

These are Corner combos, but not really. Because of the corner carry from the normals and the reach of the first hit of the EX.Rekkas, you can be quite far away from the corner when you start this combo. Farthest distance seems to be 5 training mode squares from the corner of the stage (8 squares total from center to corners) if starting from cl.HP. If starting from lights you do need to be a closer to the corner around 3.5 squares from the corner.

cr.LP, cr.LP xx MAX, cl.HP, cl.LP xx EX.Command Throw, EX.Rekkas, H.Tornado Kick (362)
cl.HP, f.LP xx MAX, cl.HP, cl.LP xx EX.Command Throw, EX.Rekkas, H.Tornado Kick (416)

Mid screen combos when you can’t hit the other MAX Mode combo. EX Up Punch actually does less damage here then Heavy.

cr.LP, cr.LP  xx MAX, cl.HP, f.LP xx EX.Rekkas, H.Up Punch (298)
cl.HP, f.LP xx MAX, cl.HP, f.LP xx EX.Rekkas, H.Up Punch (352)


Basically the rest of the combos are just varients of the previous combos that just use more meter, but either by using the MAX version of the super, or adding a super into the MAX mode combo.

2-Meters

cl.HP, f.LP xx H.Rekkas xx MAX.Beam Super (464)
cl.HP, f.LP xx MAX, cl.HP, f.LP xx EX.Command Throw, MAX.Beam Super (494)

3-Meters

cl.HP, f.LP xx H.Rekkas xx Climax (529)
cl.HP, f.LP xx MAX, cl.HP, f.LP xx EX.Command Throw, Climax (547, corner only)

4-Meters

cl.HP, f.LP xx H.Rekkas xx Beam Super xx Climax (607)

5-Meters

cl.HP, f.LP xx H.Rekkas xx MAX.Beam Super xx Climax (703)
cl.HP, f.LP xx MAX, cl.HP, f.LP xx EX.Command Throw, MAX.Beam Super, Climax (719, corner only)

Little different format this time. I'm changing to using LP, HP, LK, HK because I believe this is what beginners will use not the classic notation since that is what is used by the game.  This way they don't have to translate and I'm pretty sure the veterans can translate easily to A,B,C,D notation.  I will also post my video links that talk about this guide here at the top rather then in a later post. And with that here's what I got for Muimui

Link to a video explanation of this guild here (will update when uploaded): https://youtu.be/ijNLkZAAlpc

st.LP - [Even] Poke
st.HP - [~ -4] Outstanding poking tool, whiff punish very well
st.LK - [-2] Poke, only standing normal that cancels, Can combo into Tornado Kick or H.Command Throw
st.HK - [+1] Best Anti-Air Normal

cl.LP - [-1] Cancels
cl.HP - [-1] Cancels, activates much farther out than the rest of the close normals, this makes it easier to combo from MAX Mode cancels and hitting from run ups and jump in.
cl.LK - [Even] Cancels,
cl.HK - [-2] Cancels, max damage normal cancel, when you need a close if you want the most optimal damage use this, but it is much harder to use then cl.HP in things like MAX mode cancels. The timing is extremely tight going from lights into a MAX mode cancel into cl.HK. Not impossible, but for consistency I would suggest using cl.HP instead.

cr.LP - [Even] Cancels, mostly used as part of light hit confirm combos.
cr.HP - [~ -4] Cancels, good poke tool that you can use as a confirm for combos
cr.LK - [-1] Cancels, low light confirm tool
cr.HK - [-2] Cancels, Sweep

j.LP - Air 2 Air, not as good as j.LK
j.HP - Jump in that leans forward, therefore hits from farther out distances then j.HK. Mix with j.HK to make Anti-Airing more difficult, Crosses up but only at very specific distances
j.LK - Air 2 Air of choice, Cross up
j.HK - Jump in that has a far downward angle making it much easier to confirm into combos Cross up

Nouten Kudaki - [-5] f.LP
Help with hit confirming combos, particularly from cl.HP, f.LP into Rekkas or MAX cancel, Not an Overhead.

Hien-Ryu Ken - qcf+P - Up Punch

• L: DP like punch that goes up 45 degrees
• H: Does a roll (no hit) into the DP
• EX: Like the H. version but the roll has 3 hits before going into the DP
• All versions has some upper body invincibility. Light version seems to have it for less time than the others but most likely to use as a wakeup reversal due to it not having the roll.

Ryusougeki - qcb+P- Rekkas

• Doesn’t seem to be a reason to use L. version as you can’t convert off of lights with it
• Use qcf+K after the 1st or 2nd Rekka to fly back making it basically safe
• Because of this even on block you want the second Rekka for chip then fly back with K
• Flys back further with HK than with LK
• EX.Rekka will do all 3 hits with one motion and wall bounce. This will fly your opponent over your head if doing this in the corner

Ryusenshu - qcf+K - Tornado Kick

• Can combo H.Tornado Kick from lights, therefore if not MAX canceling this is the ender of choice for lights
• EX version has some invincibility frames

Doraryutotsu - hcb+K - Command Throw

• H/EX has more range then L
• EX Wall Splats (like when hitting a CD) and is invincible on startup

Higi Chouryuha - qcfx2 + P - Beam

• Can convert into this fairly easily from Rekkas or Wall Splat (CD or EX.Command Throw)
• Most likely super you will use
• Both levels have no invincibility so save use as combo enders
• Can advance cancel into Super Flying Attack but will miss from mid screen if you cancel from too far back
• Can climax cancel and hits at basically all distances except full screen

Enten Gouryuha - qcfx2 + K - Super Flying Attack

• [Found by Desmond]I found out a good way to end with this super is from hitting a cornered opponent with EX qcb+AC after they wall bounce, then inputting the motion the opposite way.
  Regarding the invincibility, she does have it during the start while she rises in the air, but once she starts flying, its all gone. I will also add her normal & ex version different in ranges, the normal version has a longer range while the EX is slightly shorter. The normal version can punish Nakoruru's qcf+C~qcf+P attack on block.
• Can advance cancel into Beam Super however will drop a lot of hits if doing it against the corner.
• Can climax cancel, just be sure to do it as Muimui is dropping down from the sky at the end of the attack.

Seiryutenmei - hcbx2 + PP - Dragon Summon

• Dashes almost the entire screen length very quickly. As long as that 1st hit connects you will do full damage
• Is fully invincible even as you dash, including projectiles.  Therefore makes this a heavy damage projectile punish.
• Be aware that if you use this on wakeup you may fly under an opponent trying a meaty jump in, causing you to lose 3 meters for no damage.