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Ryo certainly feels capable of being played in any position. Good spacing game, meterless DP, fast cr.C, and gets better with meter. I don't have enough experience to speak on his normals, but outside cr.C are his normals slow? Predictability might also work against him like Juicebox said. It feels like he's constantly fighting to keep you in his space covered by his fireball, and so he has to make a move to get you there, especially if he's behind in life. He doesn't seem to have tools to fight past midscreen, and his EX ranbu is pretty slow too.

I like this topic, and wanted to know how people felt about Mature too. She seems to occupy a spot in the mid-tier but isn't described in the same veins as your Shens and EX Kyos. I don't feel she's at that level either, but can be incredibly oppressive on point and gets a lot of mileage for 1 meter 1 drive. So what do you guys feel about her placement? Some weaknesses I see are she needs a meter for a reversal, and some of her normals don't stack up as well to other characters normals (save close C).

Yeah, a good King can lame out and play run away or bait for a CH dp+B/D, and combo accordingly... Patience and knowing when to use f+A helps...

Athena shouldn't have to get to Billy to win, but when she is, Athena is less of a problem imo, but still a threat regardless... She's got fireball, a fast cr.B, dp, command grab, and EX fireball which is almost annoying as Saiki's super. You have to know when to either grab, f+A (there's that magic move again), cr.C, or use the occasional dp+BD (or at least when to bait for it)...

Anybody here have solid info vs Leona??? It sure seems like you should run through her easily, but not with good spacing I can only get a very small amount of damage, and even that is range-dependant. The Leona player plays extremely safe with pokes and such, but that's about it. I can get at least a qcf+A off of her j.D, qcb+A (not sure if that's correct) if blocked, but it does little damage. Any ideas???

How about DP, qcb+P, level 1 / level 2 super, or a hop/jump CD? The last one would be nice if air qcb+P for Leona puts her in a counter-hit state.

Yeah, I was using the fast EX Orochinagi. I tried EX Surprise Rose right before that.

[I'm also struggling getting in as Leona. Am I supposed to just hop C/D?Seems like she's terrible against King, her projectiles come out so quickly.]

Hello,

I'm having trouble comboing into V-Slasher/from Leona's overhead (fwd.b);

cr.b, cr.b, st.b, fwd.b, V-Slasher

Usually, X-Caliber (qcb-A/C) comes out instead. I've tried allowing the stick to return to neutral after the overhead but that results in X-Caliber.

I'm also struggling getting in as Leona. Am I supposed to just hop C/D?
Seems like she's terrible against King, her projectiles come out so quickly.

Any tips?

You have to play that match up real patiently because King will throw out alot fireballs. The best way to go about getting around the fireballs,from my experience is blocking fireballs and closing the gap and if you have have meter you can use a well timed V-Slasher.

I wouldn't rely too much on using the hop C/D especially if King has meter,because you're asking to get hit with either EX Trap Shot or a Super...so I would suggest trying to bait out those moves, especially on wake-up if you get the knockdown.The whole match-up is based on waiting for the King player to make a mistake during the match and you punishing them for it.....another thing you can do is go into training mode and recreate the scenario to see what you're getting hit by and find ways to get out that situation.

To add to the knockdown part, if you score a knockdown with the overhead f+B, you can safe jump both of those reversals by doing an immediate hop A after the overhead. Juicebox worked on this on one of his streams.

EDIT: I don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere, but it seems that throw, hyperhop A also works as a safejump setup? I might've been doing something wrong, but I couldn't even get XIII Kyo's EX Orochinagi to beat it.

Hey there gang, I've been sick the last two days so I haven't gotten to look at this much. I'll start looking into metered combos so mainly the practical ones are listed. In the meantime here's some comments in the meterless part:

cl.D, charge b~f+K = 141 dmg - Think this can be removed, as a confirm from cl.D should just go into f+B, air qcb+A.

d.C, charge d~u+P = 174 dmg - This should be removed too, as you would only do this as a punish, and f+B, air qcb+A does more damage.

nj.D, (air) qcb+A = 127 dmg - Listed twice now, so this one can be removed.

cr.B, cr.C, d~u+C = 168 dmg - I'm not sure about this one, as with a confirm you can just go into f+B, air qcb+A. You could frametrap with the cr.C, but the d~u+C's a risky confirm. I'm not sure what else you could do off a frametrap cr.C though on block. Does b~f+A combo from cr.C?

s.C, f+B, air qcb+A = 202 dmg - Also redundant, so this can be removed.

s.C, f+B, air qcb+C, d~u+C = 222 dmg - This only works in the corner, so this should be separated into a corner combos section.

I got curious the other day on King's Neomax, and wanted to run a little experiment. We all know it's a poor move to throw out in the open, or add to combos (save after an HD combo ending in EX Surprise Rose), but the fact that it's got 0-1 frame startup means she potentially has an instantaneous punish to unsafe blockstrings. So I'm going to try running this move as a counter to moves that are used in blockstrings and are relatively safe, but should be punishable by this to see where and if it can be used. Here's what I gathered from yesterday against Kim:

Claw Iori:
- Blockstring ending in qcb+C/AC: 13 hits up close (s.C starter), 14 if started far (d.B, d.A, f+A). Gets 15 if he uses d.Bx2, d.A, f+A!
- Blocked df+C: 12-13 hits. Probably not reliable but not punishable with EX Surprise Rose.
- qcb+D: 13-15 hits depending on distance after the move (best if blocked further). Can't imagine him using this when he also has the EX version (neutral on block), but if he advances with this it can be punished.
- Blocked air b+B: 12-13 hits. Punishable but hard to block and punish, not really worth it.

Kim:
- cr.Bx2, st.B (st.B -6) - Pretty reliably gets 15 hits.
- cr.Bx2 (cr.B +0), Gets 15 hits most of the time, max distance second cr.B sometimes resulted in only 13 hits. Need to check if this can be done between a second cr.B and a st.B, probably just easier to watch for a st.B.
- far D, cr.B, st.B - Pretty reliably gets 15 hits.

Granted this may only be useful as a game-finisher, but every little bit helps, right?

Also as you might guess, this loses effectiveness if King has an opponent cornered, as you don't get all the bubbles.

There hasn't been a lot of EX Kyo activity lately, so I thought I'd add this video that one of our local fighting game friends found. It's an HD combo video for Kyo for each amount of meter.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17399012

In particular, I've been working on using the 2-bar near-corner HD combo which does 792 damage from a st.C. The combo goes:
st.C, df+D (2) [HD], st.C, df+D (1), qcf+A xx qcf+A [HDC] (dp+C [HDC] qcf+C)x2, dp+C [HDC] qcf+A, dp+C [HDC] qcf+C, dp+A [HDC] qcfx2+K.

OK, here's my suggestions for the meterless combos. I'm not the best player so feel free to comment and add/correct where needed. Thanks!

Midscreen Combos
0 Stock, No Drive Gauge

cr.A, cr.B, f+B, air qcb+A = 170 dmg
cr.Bx2, st.B, f+B, air qcb+A = 175 dmg
- Staple combos for Leona starting from two low normals, allowing the player enough time to hit-confirm into the remainder of the combo. If the first low normal is started far from the opponent, the following cr.B can be omitted for 149/154 damage.

s.C (2)/s.D (2), f+B, air qcb+A = 174 dmg
- An alternative combo to the above starting from a two-hit standing C or D. Best used as a punish, as f+B is slightly unsafe on block.

j.A, air qcb+A = 97 dmg
nj.D, air qcb+A = 127 dmg
- After connecting with an instant overhead j.A or nj.D, Leona can combo an air A X-Calibur. nj.D has near-instant startup, so these help add to her mixup game if the opponent is getting too comfortable blocking low.

cr.B, cr.C, f+B, air qcb+A = 192 dmg
- Leona's cr.B can link into cr.C, granting her a little extra damage. As before, be sure to hit-confirm the cr.B and cr.C before inputting the f+B.

Looked through the combos and had some comments. Also I was thinking it might be helpful to have some comments on listed combos or groups of combos, so people can understand when they might use each combo.

You're right. Can you help us by providing some comments on some of her combos by posting the combo here with your comment? Along with anything else you want to share?

Sounds good. I think ESB and others on the KOF tourney players FB group can do a better job of tackling the HD combos than I can, but I'll do what I can to add input to the more basic combos, plus look for the optimal ones.

Looked through the combos and had some comments. Also I was thinking it might be helpful to have some comments on listed combos or groups of combos, so people can understand when they might use each combo.

0 Bar, 0 Drive
- cr.C, d~u+P - I'm not sure how useful this is. I can see using it as an option from a charge while running but as a punish st.C/cr.C/st.D, f+B, qcf+A gets you more damage and you have time to confirm your first normal.

1 Bar, 1 Drive
cr.B, st.B, f+B, (air) qcb+C, d~u+C, (DC) b~f+D, (air) qcf hcb+P - Should mention this is corner / near-corner to get the qcb+C after f+B.

Also worth possible mention is you can HD bypass a raw air EX V-Slasher and then Neomax to punish a ground projectile or slow move. It's 4 bars, but an instant 790 damage.

I sat down with her for the first time this weekend, and boy do I love her meter gain from TKed B Phoenix Arrows. Going to put her on point some tonight at our weeklies, I feel like she can be a phenomenal battery.

Re: Using King against Athena - I feel King can survive a fireball war for a while, since depending on the Athena you're playing they're bound to throw a reflector in between somewhere. Once you condition Athena to use it you can punish it with D Tornado Kick. EX Tornado Kick also blows through normal Psycho Balls. Neither is safe on block so space it well and make good reads.

Pretty sure King can punish Light Phoenix Arrow on block with EX Surprise Rose.

Athena is generally really good at punishing bad jumps too, so with any character you also want to get used to the distances you can safely hop / hyperhop Psycho Balls without eating a follow-up DP (superjumping generally doesn't work against Athena). You may even bait a few DPs this way, at which time go crazy on her.

Also like sammy said you can use air Venom Strikes to alter King's air trajectory and avoid fireballs. Athena won't getting meter if her fireballs never hit you.

I've been using the EX Trap Shot as my general dp, but I noticed on the wiki that EX tornado kick has invinc frames too. Any thoughts on when and where to use each in response to pressure (in corner, on wakeup, responding to hops)?

EX Trap Shot works better as a hop/jump anti-air. EX Tornado Kick is generally good for blowing through non-Super projectiles, I forget if it beats EX projectiles. Watch out on wakeup and when cornered though, since neither are remotely safe on block.

Hey there gang, Console Combat's holding their monthly tourney up at Fox and Hound in Parma this Sunday, with KOF in there. It's a good collection of people from Cleveland, a few of us from Columbus, and also guys from Michigan and Pittsburgh stop in too, so hope to see some of you there. Maybe even the random guy from Cinci?

Was practicing some safe jumping against Shen's Bakushin and saw something strange... It looked like the powerup made Shen take less damage as well, about 1/6 less damage than normal. Not sure if this is old news or anything, but I guess that gives even more reason to use this super.