Topic: Kirah's Strategical and Team Synergism Inquiries

[Kirah]

I'm a bit new to playing SNK games, i've read the tutorials and  watched videos and I understand the gist of how the game flows. I just have a few more questions, such as:

When is the best time to use roll guard cancels?
"I use it to escape pressure and to punish disadvantageous moves, i'm asking to see if there's possibly another option i'm missing."

how meter should be managed ie: Should the meter be built and concentrated on defensive actions, or should it be spent toward a single confirm.

Also when is the preferred use of Blow-off?

"I use it when i'm pressuring and the opponent is in the corner and they manage to force me to block so the BO will push them back into the corner."

Lastly in KOF XIII, I want my main team to be  Athena/Benimaru/Takuma and my second team to be K'/Leona/Takuma.

Any thoughts or on my team choices or answers to my questions would be greatly appreciated thank you.

[desmond_kof]

Yeah, I try to use guard cancels against moves that are tough to confirm and have bad recovery on whiff, like for example a couple of characters cl.C's or D's that are cancel-able.

I usually use CD counters in the same way as I use guard cancels, but when I am in the corner. The bad habit I have is, when I miss them, I'm whiffing a st. CD. I try my best not to CD counter jump ins because in 2002/UM (and possibly even 13) you can block it before it comes out. For some reason, when I watch XIII matches, I don't see a lot of CD counters...or maybe it's just me.

Btw, I moved your thread to the training dojo section because it is mainly about questions and answers concerning the KOF system.

EDIT: Now thinking back maybe it was okay to put in the KOFXIII section...lol XD

[Kirah]

Oh okay thank you very much for your help and your great response.

EDIT: Also another question about "Roll Guard Cancels" the normal you roll guard cancel how does it cause the opponent's normal to behave. Does it behave as if it hit or as if it whiffed?

EDIT II: Lol @ Desmond, also what are your thoughts on the teams I wish to run in XIII
 Athena/Benimaru/Takuma  and K'/Leona/Takuma

[desmond_kof]

Hmm, if I am not mistaken, the moment you guard roll against someone's attack it behaves as its a blocked hit, so you will roll while they begin to recover.

[Kirah]

Oh okay thank you, have to remember that. I mean I figured it would act as a guarded hit just wanted to know if there was any other properties that happen in the midst of the cancel.

[omegaryuji]

When is the best time to use roll guard cancels?
"I use it to escape pressure and to punish disadvantageous moves, i'm asking to see if there's possibly another option i'm missing."

In general, to get out of pressure and (at worst) reset to a neutral situation.  Can also be used to avoid some chip damage and punish stuff that'd otherwise be safe.  Keep in mind that the GCAB roll is not the same as a regular roll (unless SNK changed things somewhere along the way without telling me *laughs* ), as it has no recovery and cannot be thrown.  Also, GCAB is generally safer than GCCD (which can be blocked usually if you did it against a late jumpin, or can be punished by the other character canceling into something invincible [like a delayed command grab] or a command counter).

how meter should be managed ie: Should the meter be built and concentrated on defensive actions, or should it be spent toward a single confirm.

However you want, really.  I mean, it also depends on your characters, but in general, it's really personal preference, aside from obvious situations (like if you hit confirm on the other player's last character and you've got enough meter to finish him off, just go for it).

Also when is the preferred use of Blow-off?

"I use it when i'm pressuring and the opponent is in the corner and they manage to force me to block so the BO will push them back into the corner."

I'm guessing blow-off means GCCD, in which case, it's good any time you're willing to spend meter in order to knock the other character down.

Hmm, if I am not mistaken, the moment you guard roll against someone's attack it behaves as its a blocked hit, so you will roll while they begin to recover.

Yeah, pretty sure that's right.  Same with GCCD (which is why, for instance, 2002 Iori can block your GCCD if you did it against a st.A).

[desmond_kof]

Also, GCAB is generally safer than GCCD (which can be blocked usually if you did it against a late jumpin, or can be punished by the other character canceling into something invincible [like a delayed command grab] or a command counter).

I agree with that GCAB is much safer, but the slight pay off with the GCCD is that you get some small free damage, and you get to knockdown your opponent (which they can tech from) which turns the momentum around. So mostly you gotta decide if you want the free damage, your enemy on the ground and you back on the offense, or getting out of the pressure, no chip-damage, a possible punish, or to create some space between you and your opponent (if you GCAB backward).

[Kirah]

Thank you those are some great things to consider or to think about. Glad to know I wasn't too far off in my uses in GCAB an GCCD. Is there a possible way to bait or beat them with an OS?

[FataCon]

Hmm, if I am not mistaken, the moment you guard roll against someone's attack it behaves as its a blocked hit, so you will roll while they begin to recover.

Yeah, pretty sure that's right.  Same with GCCD (which is why, for instance, 2002 Iori can block your GCCD if you did it against a st.A).

That's not necessarily true. A move's frames don't change whether it hits/blocked/whiffed. The only reason you have more frames to punish a whiff is because they don't trigger blockstun. The reason why you can block a GCCD is because the move you used has either very few total frames or because the GCCD was done late during the active frames. Even then, not all GCCD's are created equal. Someone like Vice has a comparatively slow CD animation as opposed to someone like Andy. Hitboxes on GCCD's are also important to take note of. Some characters tend to whiff their GCCD's against high arcing jump attacks.

Plus, if you think about it, it would definitely count as blocked since triggering a GCCD would require that you blocked the attack in the first place.

[Kirah]

Does everyone here play 2K2um on Xbox 360 is it possible I can get some matches in with you guys or does everyone play on GGPO. I really want to build a strong foundation before XIII drops.

[desmond_kof]

2002UM's netcode has input lag, you're better off playing OG 2002 on GGPO, IMO.

[omegaryuji]

I agree with that GCAB is much safer, but the slight pay off with the GCCD is that you get some small free damage, and you get to knockdown your opponent (which they can tech from) which turns the momentum around.

Don't forget that you can also juggle further off of GCCD, if it counterhit (like I think GCCD'ing in the middle of a multihit move with K' usually lets him add a qcb+K or qcfx2+P after it).

[The Fluke]

That's not necessarily true. A move's frames don't change whether it hits/blocked/whiffed. The only reason you have more frames to punish a whiff is because they don't trigger blockstun.

Unless they've changed it from xii Ryos/Robert zanretsuken has one animation for "whiff" with active frames through most of it so if your opponent jumps into it at any point it will restart from the start with its hit animation. It's not of much importance but it does prove that a moves frames can be dependant on hit or whiff. Pretty much the same goes for command throws and Joes medium kick has a different animation on hit and whiff so i wouldn't be surprised if recovery differs. I'm sure alot of moves change properties on hit/whiff though some may not be very noticeable.

[jinxhand]

I agree with that GCAB is much safer, but the slight pay off with the GCCD is that you get some small free damage, and you get to knockdown your opponent (which they can tech from) which turns the momentum around.

Don't forget that you can also juggle further off of GCCD, if it counterhit (like I think GCCD'ing in the middle of a multihit move with K' usually lets him add a qcb+K or qcfx2+P after it).

Yeah you're right... You gotta be careful with that sometimes and know other combo options with whatever character, in case you get a successful CH GCCD but the distance is slightly off... Like for Billy Kane, he can do + in the corner, or depending on the distance (and input speed), + works, too. At the very least, a strong jumping attack can do the trick...

K' is one of those characters who has better stronger options to pick from, but I believe they're few...

Does everyone here play 2K2um on Xbox 360 is it possible I can get some matches in with you guys or does everyone play on GGPO. I really want to build a strong foundation before XIII drops.

I'll get some matches in with ya... Send me a friend request, and we can get set something up...