Author Topic: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports  (Read 85815 times)

Sabin

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2011, 05:57:04 PM »
yeah exactly dude, just because youre ok with the delay and can adjust (props to you i wish i could do that) doesnt mean the netcode is good by any means. not tryin to put anyone on blast here of course but i think that a lot of people that said the netcode is great dont have a 100% understanding of how to reduce lag on their setup, or are playing in laggy environments the whole time due to not having a scene. and yeah sure, hit me up whenever man

Diavle

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2011, 06:04:21 PM »
Hey man, enjoy your streams/commentary in tourneys.

Games have been good for me, is all I can say.

Were the matches amazing offline quality? Nope. Am I going to continue playing online based on my experiences? For sure, and that's all that matters to me personally. I don't have a local scene or offline friends I can rely on.

Maybe its because I've played using emulators for years and can adjust my timing based on various degrees of lag (hello entering parry a second or more in advance lol) but nothing I experienced outside of 1 bar games was anything to cry about. 2 was bearable and 3 very playable. 4 I have yet to try.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 06:06:05 PM by Diavle »

TYRANNICAL

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2011, 06:08:24 PM »
I expected the netcode to be playable enough for things like basic BNBs, Drive and Super cancels.  HD combos? Nope.
KOF XIII:
-K'/EX Kyo/EX Iori
-K'/Andy/Kyo
-Benimaru(Duo Lon)/Robert/Takuma(Iori)

Might controls everything.

Diavle

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2011, 06:09:53 PM »
I expected the netcode to be playable enough for things like basic BNBs, Drive and Super cancels.  HD combos? Nope.

That's pretty much the way I expected it as well.

pablofsi

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2011, 06:11:31 PM »
I talked with a friend.He has the 360 version and a cable connexion and he is not a brainless fanboy.The netcode is bad period.NOT bad as in XII but bellow ssf4 ...there is a lot of room for improvement.If you like 3 to 5 max combos and lag enjoy it... but stop defending a bad netcode.Personally i hope playmore will patch it good this time so it will be at least sf4 standards.


I ate Andy's sC, f+A, HCF+K (break), QCF+P, QCF+P, DP from a 2 bar game. That's on day one of the game and the guy wasn't even that good overall.

No need to overdramatize things. 2 bars is bearable (suprisingly playable actually, often times) and 3 bars is very solid. 4 bars must be really good (haven't had a chance to try one yet) going by how good 3 is.

I put about 5 hours worth of play in yesterday, most of it was spent in online matches. Playing the PS3 version with a wired DSL connection. I didn't talk with a friend.


First i wanna say wassup to Dreamcancel, this is my first post here. shoutouts to the admin as i certainly know a few of them irl. thx for watchin the stream.

i gotta say dude reading your post...i gotta say no, just no man. if people post thinks like that, SNKP/atlus will think they have good netcode when its really, really not the case. Plus you mentioned you are playing on PS3/DSL..that's already problems right there in the bag so I'm assuming you are not familiar with how input delay works. I most likely have a better connection than you by a factor of 10x over, and its still not acceptable for matches outside of 4 bar. I know I'm new to the game, but im very lag sensitive, and can tell input delay right away. practiced in training mode for hours to get used to the feel of the game offline before i jumped in and saw how it was.

to put it into perspective, my connect is good enough that i can stream and it will not affect the quality of netplay at all due to good ping times and symmetrical upstream.

It's not overdramatized dude, if kof13 doesnt get a patch i cant really see ppl playin on it. its not even sf4 quality. The only good connections I had were with ShinOni (another FiOS user, so fiber optic x fiber optic,) wolfkrone (recently got the best internet possible in his area, NY to detroit, and a few other 4 bar connecitons randomly in ranked. 3 bar is shit most of the time, i have gotten a few playable 3 bar connections but its very rare. you can see it in my stream archive, i have extreme difficulty quickrising on 3bars and the delay is inconsistent (due to netcode being input delay not GGPO rollback based.) i know im not 100% familiar with quickrise timing since im new, but ive played older kof's plenty, so im pretty sure i know how to quickrise. lol on 4 bar with shinoni it worked fine.

given the fact that my connection is WAY above average in the US, its def going to be worse experience for most people when they get their hands on it.

to shinfist: the stream is not displaying the game at a perfect framerate. It's on 30fps right now and 13 is a 60fps game right? so that might explain the issue of lag even if offline mode while watching me play. of course its not lagging for me offline though but it def might appear that way to you on the stream.

anyway wassup peeps


No matter what you believe about your ping times or your connection's performance when you stream stuff, it does affect it, I've reda lots of people here and on chat that played with 3 bars saying that the delay is little if not almost unnoticeable, that 2 is when things start to get uglier. Besides, bandwidth speed doesn't mean anything, it's the quantity of routing jumps, your ping time to the other person, and your connection's stability what determines the resulting lag or delay. What you do on your post is just confirm that delay gets worse than it should be when you stream up stuff even on 3 bars.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 06:15:28 PM by pablofsi »

KBlackNoah

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2011, 06:16:14 PM »
@Sabin

Like you said i think a lot of people here got used to playing with lag. I did't expected playmore to get it right but at least let's point out what are the problems to them so they can fix it. Saying it's playable doesn't help things at all.And there are a lot of people like myself that would like to travel but i have no one here to practice with except going online.

Sabin

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2011, 06:17:42 PM »
Quote
No matter what you believe about your ping times or your connection's performance when you stream stuff, it does affect it, I've reda lots of people here and on chat that played with 3 bars saying that the delay is little if not almost unnoticeable, that 2 is when things start to get uglier. Besides, bandwidth speed doesn't mean anything, it's the quantity of routing jumps, your ping time to the other person, and your connection's stability what determines the resulting lag or delay. What do you on your post is just confirm that delay gets worse than it should be when you stream up stuff even on 3 bars.

I understand this is the case for most connections. Not for symmetrical fiber optics though. I have tested this personally myself at Sp00ky's house on his internet (he has something like 30mb down 8 mb up) and ive played a netplay match (in ssf4) w/ stream off, then turned stream on and it felt like a layer of lag. so in that aspect i do agree. However, symmetrical fiber connections throw all that out the window. I mean I can even show you ping tests to show you how my connection is not really affected while streaming at all. for most people it will. But again, when I'm streaming, I'm not even using 1/10th of my upload speed. I have 37 mbit upload, not even using 2mbit for streaming. I've also done the same tests at home (playing matches with good connection, then switching to stream) and there isnt a lag hit at all. unless you play on fiber optic yourself it's hard to understand but in most cases (not on fiber optics) i agree with you competely dude.

also if people are saying 3bar = feel no lag, im extremely suspect of that. the game has input delay netcode. not rollback like ggpo so any lag spike will affect inputs immediately, and is variable

regardless of what you said, like i said before, people who also have fiber optics have also been saying the online isnt all that great (and they arent streaming)

and yes, i do understand ping time is what is important, not the connection speed. my point of posting my speedtest was to show you guys that my connection is extremely stable, barely drops packets if ever, and i get close to 100% of my speeds all the time. done plenty of traceroutes to people to test ping times, its not like i dont know what's up dude. You should give me a little bit more credit here since i've been involved in streaming for 2+ years now and understand well how streaming can affect netpay =)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 06:26:57 PM by Sabin »

pablofsi

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2011, 06:31:02 PM »
After it there's the little fact that most people report the delay on 3 bars ranging from hardly noticeable, to just a few. I was reading some impressions on chat yesterday and from what I could realize, the worst experience seemed to be one guy saying it was like MVC3's delay with 3 bars, which is little, a step below ssf4, putting aside all the shit people have thrown over MVC3's netcode, but it is little. Perhaps the guy was playing with someone that had a ping that was touching the ping limit of the 3rd bar. Most people agreed it was little, little delay.

If you guys reporting higher delays want to be credible, you should post ping times of and videos playing with the same person.

Diavle

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2011, 06:36:04 PM »
@Sabin

Like you said i think a lot of people here got used to playing with lag. I did't expected playmore to get it right but at least let's point out what are the problems to them so they can fix it. Saying it's playable doesn't help things at all. And there are a lot of people like myself that would like to travel but i have no one here to practice with except going online.

It does imo, if someone says that, it, to me, means that the game works well enough to be fun. It works well enough to do regular, DC and supercancel combos. Its not amazing by any means and has problems but it is by no means unplayable or terrible.

Sabin above is complaining about simple things like not being able to quick rise on a 3 bar connection. I played a few 2 bar matches today in the morning (didn't come across any 3 or 4) and had no problem quick rising at all (like, zero issues). I did combos, specials (ex and normal), supers and supercancels at will. And this is me with my crap pad skills.

In a nutshell, this gets to me because I was in the camp that was going to wait for netcode impressions. If I had in fact gone that route then I would be in your shoes and missing this amazing game.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 06:39:09 PM by Diavle »

Sabin

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2011, 06:40:32 PM »
it would be a whole lot easier to post ping times if they included the ping in the game dude
requires me to ask the other gamer for his IP lol and then traceroute. sick of the bars crap in FG's.

if you want to see videos though, i do have them
http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby/b/300714897 check out halfway thru the video and part 3 for some netplay

So far the consensus I've been seeing online:
People with crap internet (on ps3) saying they cant feel delay
people with amazing connections saying online is shit

sibarraz

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2011, 06:46:23 PM »
The netcode is not good honestly, basically there's the big problem that more that being incredible bad like KOF XIII is just a netcode which never let you know for sure if you had a good connection against someone or not, for example, with 2 bars I had some fine matches and with 3 no, so finally is pointless to try to defend it since it will be determined by who you had to play, where you live, and your connection, at least for random matches I will not recommend it, so there is not point on try to defend it honestly

Is not ''I'm going to cancel my preorder fuck you SNKP'' bad, but is dissapointing since could have been better considering how much could have been sacrificed

At least like someone said, I never would had expected to make big combos with it, you must be a moron if you think that this could have been posible, blazblue is another tale since the game was thought to be played online, that's why there are tons of things that could be pulled, but in a game like kof with tons of combos that are really specific, is really hard to do.

Sibarrez, even if it wasn't specifically directed at anyone you should know better. -Kane317
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 12:28:49 AM by Kane317 »


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KBlackNoah

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2011, 06:49:48 PM »
@Diavle

I said i wanted to travel.I cannot do decent practice with laggy online = why should i go to a turney with 0 practice and waste money and time for nothing?.I want that fix.If you play only to have fun .. have fun.But i want to take this game a bit serious.I hope atlus does something about this because they promised better netcode than sf4.... which is not right now.

@nilcam
are moderators suppose to call the other gentlemen here on the forums morons? ... or to be an example for people like myself?!

It's been handled.  -Kane317
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 12:01:29 AM by Kane317 »

Sabin

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2011, 06:50:11 PM »
After reading your reactions in this thread i think i wil do another kof stream again in the future to further test the netcode. the game is hella fun and i wouldnt not buy it based on subpar netcode since the game is good but i definitely want to get to the bottom of the netcode issue. better to play ppl that know what theyre doing than randoms online even if they have good connection so i can see it for myself

ill probably make a thread or hit up some of the dreamcancel guys to see if i can set it up for sure.
but yeah def check out the stream archive i think my reactions are pretty telling for a ot of issues that people will run into online play before they get the game in their hands
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 06:51:56 PM by Sabin »

pablofsi

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2011, 06:51:48 PM »
It isn't pointless to defend it because when there's an unstable state of connection between the two players it's the players fault, the netcode's a certain way and that's how it is, if it runs smooth and with little delay or slow as fuck and delayed as hell, that's how it is. But variations are due to people, not the netcode. As good as it can be, that's how the netcode is.

ZenTzen

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Re: Netcode Lag/Delay Test Reports
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2011, 06:57:54 PM »
Has anyone played the game with the 360 or ps3 in DMZ mode?