Author Topic: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)  (Read 61240 times)

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2012, 01:18:01 AM »
I'm actually in the middle of writing a comprehensive guide to Elisabeth covering everything that I know. It's going to take a while to complete since I'm trying to be as thorough as possible.

Personally, I have trouble against Yuri as Elisabeth since the answers to her dive kick pressure require reading your opponent and taking some risks. Obviously, the best way to stop that dive kick pressure is to not get put into it but easier said then done. This all being said Yuri is realllllyyyy good and I think she's an underrated character, at the moment. It feels like within a few months she'll be considered top tier.

Anyways, I'm not an expert player or an expert Elisabeth, but I can only give insights from my own experiences, as well as my analysis from other Elisabeth players I've seen. Essentially, I find the character to be very passive aggressive during the neutral game until she can find the right space to start her offensive pressure, which always leads into the corner.

From what I've seen of Arcade version Elisabeth, she was solid in any position. This was mostly because she was a high damage character that was easy on your resources. She could play passive aggressively and control a lot of key space with j.CD, j.D, s.A, s.C, cl.s.D and Etincelle's, which built a lot of meter. This was frustrating to the opponent as it made them second guess their approach as any stray hit would lead into Grand Rafale. Basically, you maximized on damage with minimalist play.

Right now, I'm still seeing a lot of people play Elisabeth in this manner (except for TheAnswer), and while this still works it doesn't seem to be the most optimal way to play her. I feel the console changes force her to be played in a different manner. Seems like she needs to burn meter for options or to deal the 500+ damage she use to deal in the arcade version. Personally, I will burn meter and drive when I land a solid hit because it's always 500+ damage into a corner carry combo that leaves the opponent in an aerial reset state for a mix up.

The standard combos I go for are:

0 bar, 0 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, j.C or small hop j.A for particular mix ups

0 bar, 1 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, DC, QCF+K, QCF+C, A DP, A DP, j.C

1 bar, 1 drive
s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, DC, EX QCF+P, QCF+K, QCF+C, A DP, A DP, j.C

While you can end any of these combos with Grand Rafale for a bit more damage and a hard knockdown I tend to prefer the mix up you get with the aerial reset. On top of that I find the damage scaling after wards to be a waste of meter (let me know if I'm wrong on this).

HD Combo:
I only go for HD if they're near the corner
3 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCFx2+P, Neomax (850ish damage)

4 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neomax (900ish damage)

s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], EX QCF+P, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, QCFx2+P, Neomax (850-900ish damage)

5 bars
s.C, f+B, HD, s.C, f+B, C DP, (opponent in the corner), QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], EX QCF+P, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCB+B, QCF+C, QCF+C, A DP, [HDC], QCF+B, QCF+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neomax (1000+ damage)

I find if you can hit confirm from an C Etincelle (both hits or just the 2nd hit), anti-air Etincelle, CH j.CD, and CH A Etincelle you can really capitalize on the damage output for Elisabeth. All of those moves can lead into A DP into a full juggle combo, which puts your opponent back into the aerial reset state for a mix up.

To me, I find this to be the optimal play for Elisabeth. It's bascally using the passive aggressive play to find the optimal space to launch my offense and any hit is going to lead into a juggle corner carry combo leaving you in a reset state. In this manner, a full combo into a mix up will always kill the opponent as the subsequent combo should be dealing 400-500 damage as well. This is why I find Elisabeth to be better suited for 2nd or 3rd position but I tend to shy away from placing her in 3rd position as I don't feel Elisabeth covers enough match ups if she gets put into a reverse OCV situation. I'd rather have her 2nd to deal as much damage as possible so that my anchor has the best chances to finish off the opponent or in a worst case scenario be able to have the tools to reverse OCV.

In terms of mix ups, here's what I've discovered:

s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, small hop j.a, run underneath or in front of your opponent
-s.C, f+B into a full combo if the opponent guesses wrong on your position
-Throw or Command Grab (have to wait a bit as the opponent has an unthrowable window upon landing)
-Meaty c.B, link into s.C into a full combo (meaty specific combo)
-Delay the run and then do a delayed EX DP to beat certain reversals (very match up specific). This is more effective in the corner when the opponent wants to jump to escape a command grab or out space a bad jump in
-Counter or EX Counter to bait something from your opponent
-Do nothing and bait out a reversal

s.C, f+B, C DP, A DP, A DP, j.C, land
-A deep normal jump j.B cross up
-Small jump j.B (harder to see and react to but very one dimensional)
-Empty small hop into Throw, Mistral, or low
-Throw or Command Grab (have to wait a bit as the opponent has an unthrowable window upon landing)
-Meaty c.B, link into s.C into a full combo (meaty specific combo)
-Counter or EX Counter to bait something from your opponent
-Do nothing and bait out a reversal.

Any of the meter and drive cancel combos I listed can lead into the j.C/A, small jump j.B mix up as well. They will all put the opponent in the corner so cross up or cross over stuff won't apply. For the most part the majority of the mix up games I listed above are applicable. Additionally, you gain access to the following meaty setup:
-Meaty QCF+C, off a j.C they have more time to recognize and escape the meaty with a roll or reversal. Off of a j.A only the tail end of the 2nd hit of QCF+C will connect. If it's blocked it leaves you at around +1 or neutral. If it hits you can go into DP+A into a drive combo for 400-500damage.

A lot of the mix ups are the same in each set up but there's a lot of subsequent mind games that come from the aerial reset states.

c.B, c.B, c.A (whiff), whiff cancel into EX/QCF+K:
-EX/QCF+P - If you do the EX version of the command dash any special move done during a certain time window will be EX moves for free. A, C, or EX Etincelle will catch back dashes or jumps and will lead into A DP for a full juggle combo
-EX/Mistral - From the regular mistral you can wait for your opponent to land, then take a step forward and roll behind them for a mix up.
-EX/DP+P - Catch back dashes or people pushing buttons. More risky as the DP can be stuffed with normals, certain reversals, or be avoided with rolls or neutral jumps. On top of that blocked C and EX DP's are unsafe.

j.CD, small jump j.B cross up.
-Hit confirm into a full juggle combo

I guess this is a modification to how she played in the arcade. The way I'm playing Elisabeth is controlling space with specific normals or specials to land a juggle combo into a reset situation then utilizing a series of specific mind games to finish the opponent off in two or more mix ups.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 01:45:34 AM by Killey »

Sharnt

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2012, 08:07:20 PM »
This all being said Yuri is realllllyyyy good and I think she's an underrated character, at the moment. It feels like within a few months she'll be considered top tier.
She's already toptier :>
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Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2012, 05:45:58 PM »
If you missed out on TheAnswer's stream on Wednesday, Romance showed a new 100% combo with Elisabeth for 4 meters.

deep j.C, close s.C, f+B, HD, far s.C xx DP+C, (opponents in the corner), QCF+C, [DP+A, [HDC], QCF+C (1 hit), QCF+C] x3, EX QCFx2+P, Neo Max [1023 damage]

TheAnswer commented on the combo saying that when Romance cancelled into NeoMax on the first hit of the super, the super remains active and hits the opponent alongside the Neomax. I played around with this more and it doesn't matter when you cancel into the Neomax the super will remain active regardless and the damage output doesn't change.

The one thing I don't understand in this combo is how to get into far s.C range after the HD activation. The dash you get after the activation always puts Elisabeth too close to the opponent, and if I delay the activation so that a s.C comes out automatically Elisabeth is too close to the opponent and gets a close s.C anyways. If anyone has some insight on this please let me know.

The combo won't kill unless you land the j.C and the far s.C. If you get the j.C and a close s.C it'll only do 996 damage. In terms of timing with this combo I didn't find it too bad. The DP+A's have to hit deep so when you drive cancel into QCF+C it doesn't whiff. It's the same height for when you try to land the triple DP combo or drive cancel into EX Etincelle. It's easier to get the timing for the DP+A if you delay the second QCF+C so that it hits the opponent lower to the ground.

The super timing is a bit weird for me, I saw Romance do it as soon as possible and get the full damage but when I was playing around with the combo I needed to delay the super so it hits in the middle of the opponent to get the full damage. It's feels that if the super hits too deep, like at the opponents back, you don't get all of the hits of the super and you end up getting 800+ damage instead.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 05:53:38 PM by Killey »

Dark Chaotix

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2012, 12:25:04 PM »
The one thing I don't understand in this combo is how to get into far s.C range after the HD activation. The dash you get after the activation always puts Elisabeth too close to the opponent, and if I delay the activation so that a s.C comes out automatically Elisabeth is too close to the opponent and gets a close s.C anyways. If anyone has some insight on this please let me know.

Hold back while going into HD (sC, f+B, b+BC etc etc). This will cancel the auto dash and give you your far sC. You dont need to delay the activation but the timing to get the far sC is not too hard.

EDIT: I just tried the combo and all my attempts got me 53 hits - exactly 1000dmg. Does he do it on counter hit? Can you link me the vid so i can see it.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 01:03:53 PM by Dark Chaotix »

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2012, 03:40:07 AM »
The one thing I don't understand in this combo is how to get into far s.C range after the HD activation. The dash you get after the activation always puts Elisabeth too close to the opponent, and if I delay the activation so that a s.C comes out automatically Elisabeth is too close to the opponent and gets a close s.C anyways. If anyone has some insight on this please let me know.

Hold back while going into HD (sC, f+B, b+BC etc etc). This will cancel the auto dash and give you your far sC. You dont need to delay the activation but the timing to get the far sC is not too hard.

EDIT: I just tried the combo and all my attempts got me 53 hits - exactly 1000dmg. Does he do it on counter hit? Can you link me the vid so i can see it.

http://www.twitch.tv/theanswerkof/b/305224630

Around 22minute mark. I misread the damage output. It does 53 hits for 1003/1004 damage (hard to tell with the stream quality).

I was able to get the far s.C with your method. To add to it, it seems like you have to cancel into HD relatively quickly to get the far s.C to hit consistently. If you wait for the f+B animation to finish the far s.C tends to whiff. There's some weird tricks you can do to still get it to connect but for consistency I prefer cancelling the f+B into HD as soon as possible.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 03:54:19 AM by Killey »

Dark Chaotix

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2012, 02:52:33 PM »
I dont think i do anything like delay or quickly. I just do it like Im doing a normal HD combo, but thats just me.

Its quite good given the damage boost you get from it as it is better than sC, f+B. It would be even better for a player that can hit confirm with it into a HD combo...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 03:01:25 PM by Dark Chaotix »

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2012, 05:47:43 PM »
I dont think i do anything like delay or quickly. I just do it like Im doing a normal HD combo, but thats just me.

Its quite good given the damage boost you get from it as it is better than sC, f+B. It would be even better for a player that can hit confirm with it into a HD combo...


Hmm...I'll have to play around with the timing some more then.

In any case, the s.C, f+B started should be a long enough hit confirm to go into HD far s.C, etc... I quite like this combo because it's more consistent for me to get DP+A, HDC, QCF+C then DP+A, HDC, QCF+K, QCF+C. I get some inconsistencies with the latter on the 2nd rep then just delaying my DP+A to HDC into QCF+C. The other HD combos I posted have better corner carry capabilities but you can still land this combo from midscreen to corner.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 05:01:40 AM by Killey »

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2012, 04:53:13 AM »
The Answer was streaming earlier last week with Bala.

http://www.twitch.tv/theanswerkof/b/305399215

Around the 17 minute mark they get some matches going. Bala is using Elisabeth, EX Iori, Ryo throughout these sets. I really like how he was utilizing the command dash to keep offensive momentum going, as well as mind games. It's like he keeps projecting a constant threat between command grab, counter, or Etincelle, and it's in such quick succession that it's hard to read & react to. A few good reads on the Elisabeth players part and it's a total mind fuck to the opponent.

Another thing I like from his play is that he recognizes his mistakes quickly and doesn't let it faze his momentum, and instead uses it for a resets or mind games. For example, he lands a AA Etincelle, recognizes the hit and follows up with DP+A, then goes for the j.D juggle but misses it. Rather then getting fazed by this, he lands, runs up to TheAnswer and then command grabs his tech roll recovery.

Also, noticed using f+B and whiff cancelling it into the command grab for additional mind games. A lot of corner set ups for this and there's a mix with counters to catch people pushing buttons. A lot of good things to take note of.

EDIT: Okay, at the 18:37 mark in that stream Bala does f+B whiff, and whiff cancels it early into command grab. How the hell do you do this? It's surprisingly difficult when I tried this at home.

EDIT: I bugged TheAnswer on his twitter to see how to do this and he said it's Elisabeth's s.CD that he was whiff cancelling into the command grab.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 06:08:57 AM by Killey »

Dark Chaotix

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2012, 11:30:23 AM »
I cant watch stuff on twitch very well so cant comment, but Id assume that the points in his game you made were intended / guessed the opponent right or he option selected somehow.

What I meant by hit confirm was to start combo from a far sC into HD, not with sC, f+B etc.

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2012, 05:34:09 PM »
I cant watch stuff on twitch very well so cant comment, but Id assume that the points in his game you made were intended / guessed the opponent right or he option selected somehow.

What I meant by hit confirm was to start combo from a far sC into HD, not with sC, f+B etc.

Ah yes...you would maximize damage if you hit confirmed from the far s.C. I think far s.C does 20 points more damage then close s.C. Really hard to hit confirm in time or good for known guaranteed punishes. You could also option select HD since you can't HD off of whiff normals. For example, you could be at a range where far s.C will whiff but willl whiff punish a normal from the opponent. You could OS HD your far s.C and if your opponent happens to throw a button out at that range they could be eating a HD combo.

In terms of Bala's Elisabeth play, I feel he plays her similar to how he plays Clark. It's just really good spacing and a series of really good reads on the opponent.

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2012, 03:51:22 AM »
Uh wow...This is probably the most brain dead HD combo in the game and it does 900 damage.

cl. s.C, f+B, HD, far s.C, DP+C, EX QCFx2+P, Neo Max.

It's really funny because if you tack on a DP+A after the DP+C it scales the rest of the combo to 600-800 damage depending on how deep you hit the EX super.

This means a simple combo into a reset = a dead character when you have 4 bars.

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2012, 01:15:37 PM »
Noticing a lot of big combos in this thread, but not a lot of options outside of starting with ;c, ;fd ;b so how about some stuff starting with low moves?

Basic everywhere blockstring:
;dn ;b, ;dn ;a xx ;dn ;df ;fd ;a

Can go into Grand Rafale on hit, on block you're also at a good distance to go for ;fd ;dn ;df ;a for a surprise launch. Can also switch the ;dn ;df ;fd ;a with ;dn ;df ;fd ;b to go for a grab.

In the corner you can follow up with far ;c then Grand Rafale, or if you have enough meter to finish your opponent you can HD cancel the far ;c, Grand Rafale into Neomax while still on the ground, then follow up with another Grand Rafale or EX Noble Blanche (if I remember correctly the regular Noble Blanche is out of range if your opponent is in the corner because Neomax in the corner moves you backwards)

Alternative midscreen blockstring:
;dn ;b, ;b xx ;fd ;dn ;df ;a (continue combo)

I find doing ;dn ;b, ;dn ;a xx ;fd ;dn ;df ;a is near impossible, so opted for the kicks instead, you have to be closer to the opponent for the standing ;b to connect though.

Basic combo options would be to follow with another ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, jumping move, Grand Rafale, or if you have the meter just go straight into the EX Noble Blanche.

You can start a HD here from far ;c after ;fd ;dn ;df ;a exactly the same way as corner basic version, however this one will work anywhere. The timing after the ;fd ;dn ;df ;a is quite tight, but luckily you won't HD cancel if you whiff. HD is similar to before, Grand Rafale into Neomax while you're still on the ground, followed by Regular (now that you're midscreen) or EX Noble Blanche. You can also do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, ;fd ;dn ;df ;a, jump attack if you're lacking the meter. Don't do this into Grand Rafale unless the moves you just did gave you the meter to do so because the Noble Blanche will do more damage.

These HD options won't do as much damage as the others, but the addition of the low moves means you're more likely to land them.

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2012, 10:08:56 AM »
You can essentially swap s.C->f.B with c.B, c.A instead or c.B, c.B for an HD starter.

Hell, some of the juggle combos can be started with CH j.CD, CH A Etincelle, C Etincelle, EX Etincelle, AA Etincelle, EX command grab, etc... I find learning these hit confirms are really important as you'll most likely land one of these then opening the opponent up.

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2012, 07:35:40 AM »
Killey, Thanks for that information.  Since that day I have been leveling up my Elisabeth and now I have a solid idea on how to play her.  I used to think her normals sucked but now I take full advantage of them when I can.


Also I have uploaded a simple video on how to do a nice amount of damage with Elisabeth given 4 meters an HD.  Since I run her on anchor and try to be careful about my meter I tend to be in this situation more than not.  While the combo is not as extravagant as most, I feel that it's simplicity and damage output is good if you wanna just get rid of a character quickly and not have to worry about dropping the combo.  Anyways here it is: 

Elisabeth Branctorche 89.5% Combo(HD +4 Meters)

Killey

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Re: Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2012, 06:00:11 PM »
Killey, Thanks for that information.  Since that day I have been leveling up my Elisabeth and now I have a solid idea on how to play her.  I used to think her normals sucked but now I take full advantage of them when I can.

No problem.
I think I have to revise my statements after I saw Bala play Elisabeth. There's another dynamic to her game involving her command grab. I find it's hard to make that work unless you're really good at making reads on your opponent.

Quote
Also I have uploaded a simple video on how to do a nice amount of damage with Elisabeth given 4 meters an HD.  Since I run her on anchor and try to be careful about my meter I tend to be in this situation more than not.  While the combo is not as extravagant as most, I feel that it's simplicity and damage output is good if you wanna just get rid of a character quickly and not have to worry about dropping the combo.  Anyways here it is:  

Elisabeth Branctorche 89.5% Combo(HD +4 Meters)

If you omit the 2nd f+B you can squeeze out 3 more damage in that combo. lol If you can get the far s.C you'll push the damage to 900. Doing something this simple is perfectly fine because most of the long combos I posted deal the same damage or slightly less while this is very simple and high damage. On top of that you'll be building less meter and drive your opponent as well so there's a lot of incentive to keeping it simple.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 06:30:40 PM by Killey »