Author Topic: Duo Lon (Console)  (Read 62118 times)

BioBooster

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2012, 10:10:12 AM »
Using EX teleport to stay out of the corner was certainly helpful which he'd done in numerous matches.

Killey

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2012, 11:08:32 AM »
After watching MAD KOF's Duo Lon play over the weekend there were a few things I noticed:

1) Extremely hard to pin this guy down. I have to watch the replays but from what I remember it was really hard for people to apply any sort of pressure on Mad KOF's Duo Lon. He was just all over the place and took advantage of all the right angles.

2) A lot of rekkas to beat small hops. Duo Lon players knew this already but it seemed like MAD KOF was just throwing out rekkas at certain gaps and it worked out for him.

3) Use of CD whiff cancel into specials for numerous different scenarios.

4) He blew drive and meter at every opportunity. Duo Lon on point is usually considered a battery and the majority of his 1 bar/1 drive combos deals mediocre damage so most people save for 2 meters to do the rekka teleport level 2 combo.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 08:54:47 PM by Killey »

bopper

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2012, 11:59:52 AM »
I dont really know where this misconception that Duolon does low damage comes from, he has great output with 1 bar due to the freecancel to the fireball from ex rekka. I mean he gets what, 418 damage from a cose D wtih 1 bar. I dont know if any character can top that except raiden with a dropkick charged. Sure he might not gain much from spending more then that, but hes usually played as point so it kind of evens out ^^

Diavle

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2012, 03:15:28 PM »
I dont really know where this misconception that Duolon does low damage comes from, he has great output with 1 bar due to the freecancel to the fireball from ex rekka. I mean he gets what, 418 damage from a cose D wtih 1 bar. I dont know if any character can top that except raiden with a dropkick charged. Sure he might not gain much from spending more then that, but hes usually played as point so it kind of evens out ^^

Takuma, Maxima and Joe (corner) can.

But yeah, he's very efficient. Especially if you open up your opponent as many times as Mad Kof does.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 03:32:39 PM by Diavle »

Crimson_King15

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #79 on: July 12, 2012, 04:14:39 PM »
I dont really know where this misconception that Duolon does low damage comes from, he has great output with 1 bar due to the freecancel to the fireball from ex rekka. I mean he gets what, 418 damage from a cose D wtih 1 bar. I dont know if any character can top that except raiden with a dropkick charged. Sure he might not gain much from spending more then that, but hes usually played as point so it kind of evens out ^^

Well duo gains positioning. But honestly The only time Duo can free cancel into that fireball and get a good combo off of it is if the opponent is in the corner. If you want to burn a bar outside the corner combo into F+A> qcb+lp and it will he the F+A will pull the opponent close to duo so you will be able to pull a normal off the fireball.

also with one bar Iori can do more than Duo can. I'm also pretty sure Kim can. There are quite a few characters who get over 418 with 1 bar. It's not hard especially if we talk corner combos.

Quote
Takuma, Maxima and Joe (corner) can.

But yeah, he's very efficient. Especially if you open up your opponent as many times as Mad Kof does.

Mad does most damage by poking, spacing moves properly, and covering himself with fireballs. That way when his opponent gets to him or he attacks the opponent he doesn't have to mix them up too many times because he has been slowly working their life bar the whole time.

i'm new to duo lon and was wondering what's his best aa?

Cr C is an amazing AA. It has a nice amount of speed has a great Vertical hitbox. There are very few things it can't hit also the fact that it is cancelable means you can get on offense off an AA, because you can cancel into either a fireball or a teleport for an ambiguous mix up off the AA. Also If you attempt to AA and you do it too early you can whiff cancel it  into a lk teleport. This will teleport you under the opponent and you will be safe (this is match up dependant). For everything you can't AA with Cr c F+A  and St A should do you just fine. Another thing is Rekkas Tend to AA a lot of hops. So if you see holes where you can sneak it in, Go ahead and go for it.

Started messing around with Duo a bit before evo (but no one is going to believe me!)

Mainly I was wanting to pester solid with an all rekka team:
ex kyo, mature whom I already used + duo.

Bio You look really guilty when you start explaining yourself before anyone accuses you of anything.lol

 
THIS IS WHAT I WAS FEARING! THE EVO HYPE TRAIN!


Anyone gonna break down Duolon here or do you think it's too hard based on how much reading MAD_KOF did on B.A.L.A?

I can easily do a write up for Duo. I've played him since day one so I know the ins and outs of this guy!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 04:35:50 PM by Crimson_King15 »

t3h mAsTarOth...!

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2012, 03:29:03 AM »
So I know I don't have the "fast fingers" required to play an effective Duo Lon... However, I would like to contribute to the thread after being blown away by MadKOF's Duo Lon...

Here are some Duo stuff I've trying out to see maximum potential for his damage... Mainly HD combos... Also some corner specific combos...

4 meters HD - j.D, s.C, HD, s.C, f+A, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, f+A)x5, EX DM, Neomax = 873 dmg

Corner Specific - (Also possible mid-screen but does less damage and done a little differently)

1 meters - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, s.C = 441 dmg

2 meters - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, s.C = 532 dmg

3 meters - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, EX DM = 616 dmg

3 meters HD - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, HD, s.C, f+A, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, f+A)x6, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, EX DM= 792 dmg

5 meters HD - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, HD, s.C, f+A, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, f+A)x5, EX DM, Neomax = 976 dmg
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:53:16 PM by t3h mAsTarOth...! »
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bopper

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2012, 11:09:54 AM »

Well duo gains positioning. But honestly The only time Duo can free cancel into that fireball and get a good combo off of it is if the opponent is in the corner. If you want to burn a bar outside the corner combo into F+A> qcb+lp and it will he the F+A will pull the opponent close to duo so you will be able to pull a normal off the fireball.

IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.

Kane317

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2012, 09:29:21 PM »
Thanks teh mAsTarOth...! for posting those combos, most of them are on the wiki already minus your jump damages though.  UPDATED on wiki.

As for Ex Rekkas, you can technically get a full s.D, f A after the qcb A, midscreen, but timing is very strict and s.C/D or d.A is much easier.  

As for his low damage argument, is DMs still are lower than average by 10%, 200 for DM and 300 for his Ex DM)--in comparison, Takuma and Mr Karate's Ex DM are 360; Maxima and Goro's Ex DM are 340.  His Ex moves like his air.f+BD and air.f+AC are 60 and 80 damage respectively and the air.f+AC is arguably useless and the the air.f+BD isn't much better either.

With a cancelable f.B, his f BD isn't nearly as good as it was before making the f.BD truly useful only when: 1) outside the 80% full screen (so you can do f BD --> DM) or 2) near DL like 2 characters away so you can do f BD (hits towards you), qcb A, DM.  Anywhere in between those ranges you can just do f B into DM since his DM has projectile invincibility anyways.  There's also a higher hit box for his f BD so you can use it as an anti air but we're not going to get into that.

Bottom line, is his damage output has been improved dramatically from v1.1 but he's still overall lower in damage that most of the cast.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 03:58:01 PM by Kane317 »

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2012, 10:02:37 PM »
I wouldn't say air f+AC is useless... You can air-air someone with j.C+D and on regular hit do fA+C afterwards... Then do a run under mix-up on them... If you guess right then you end up with about 400 dmg for 1 bar...
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Kane317

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2012, 10:15:47 PM »
I wouldn't say air f+AC is useless... You can air-air someone with j.C+D and on regular hit do fA+C afterwards... Then do a run under mix-up on them... If you guess right then you end up with about 400 dmg for 1 bar...

The run under is not very ambiguous at all and entirely reactable.  We've been trying to find a use for it since v1.1 and I have not seen it in any other videos.  I myself, still blow meter in that exact same manner but I know it's more just showy that actually useful.

Crimson_King15

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2012, 02:27:58 PM »

IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 02:43:17 PM by Crimson_King15 »

Josh

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2012, 12:58:58 AM »
This ain't much but it's a decent setup i found messing around in training. After landing an EX f.B on the ground you can do a hyper hop C, then start running as soon as you land. This creates an ambiguous cross-under mix up without having to do jump CD and blow another bar on EX f.A. On top of not spending extra meter, this setup seems a lot harder to react to. Honestly sometimes I don't even know which side I'm going to end up on. As far as spacing goes, the best distance for this setup to work seems to be at the max range of a ground f.A. , or about half screen away from your opponent. I plan on testing this at the next casuals I go to but so far it seems promising.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 02:40:48 AM by Josh »

Kane317

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2012, 08:01:25 AM »

IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.


You can delay canceling into the second Ex Rekkas for sure.  There's actually a lot variability to timing of the Ex Rekkas itself, canceling into the qcb A early, canceling the 2nd Ex Rekkas as fast as possible etc.  

Midscreen, you can definitely do: s.D, f.A, qcf AC, qcf P, qcb A, s.C, qcf P x3, qcf B, s.C.  Does 398 if I remember correctly, you just have to delay the second rekkas as late as possible and make sure you don't cancel the qcb A immediately but not too late either.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 03:45:54 PM by Kane317 »

Crimson_King15

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2012, 03:41:56 PM »

IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.


You can delay canceling into the second Ex Rekkas for sure.  There's actually a lot variability to timing of the Ex Rekkas itself, canceling into the qcb A early, canceling the 2nd Ex Rekkas as fast as possible etc.  

Midscreen, you can definitely do: s.D, f.A, qcf AC, qcf P, qcb A, s.C, qcf P x3, qcf B, s.C.  Does 398 if I remember correctly, you just have to delay the second rekkas as late as possible and make sure you don't cancel the qcb A immediately but not too late either.
Ok I found out what it is. You can delay it at certain ranges.  Up close You can't very the timing say after cr a> cr a> ex rekka you can't delay it but say after C>F+AC you can delay it.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 03:46:52 PM by Kane317 »

Kane317

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Re: Duo Lon (Console)
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2012, 03:47:59 PM »

IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.


You can delay canceling into the second Ex Rekkas for sure.  There's actually a lot variability to timing of the Ex Rekkas itself, canceling into the qcb A early, canceling the 2nd Ex Rekkas as fast as possible etc. 

Midscreen, you can definitely do: s.D, f.A, qcf AC, qcf P, qcb A, s.C, qcf P x3, qcf B, s.C.  Does 398 if I remember correctly, you just have to delay the second rekkas as late as possible and make sure you don't cancel the qcb A immediately but not too late either.
Ok I found out what it is. You can delay it at certain ranges.  Up close You can't very the timing say after cr a> cr a> ex rekka you can't delay it but say after C>F+AC you can delay it.

I'm pretty sure you can still delay it after two d.As but I'll test it tomorrow.