Author Topic: Sie Kensou (Console)  (Read 50991 times)

jinxhand

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2012, 08:27:17 PM »
I'm not sure if anyone has thought of this, but if you're quick enough with using B+D, you can bait a GCCD with a normal, then cancel into B+D, which will make the move whiff, allowing you to do things like dp+C, qcf+B, or a specific DC combo... Supers can also be used at this point... Anything is free game if you baited this and was in HD mode...

I'm still testing to see if this won't work with specific GCCD attacks,  but so far, I haven't found one character that can stuff that bait attempt... Oh yeah, j.CD into (air)qcb+C can help in the GCCD baiting as well, making the (air)qcb+C hit, and allowing Kensou to combo accordingly... 

Double tapping s.D after his s.B, s.C will also help it link more consistently... Other than that, don't expect to be able to mash on D to get that link...

choysauce

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Re: Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2012, 10:40:20 PM »
Kensou seems so straight forward lol. Seems tough to come up with new tech for him.

But I've seen a cool technique recently. If someone lands on afb near you, you can do rekkas to squeeze in some damage and corner carry

Also I've seen some opinions about kensou being a good anchor. I don't know if I agree with this. What would be the reasoning?

The only thing I can think of would be having access to more ex fb supers.

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Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2012, 07:49:49 PM »
Okay, I finished doing up Kensou's Wiki Page, if anyone has any issues or would like something to add, or whatever, please inform me so I can do said changes.
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desmond_kof

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2012, 08:11:12 PM »
Hey man, I added his arcade to console changes, a section for gameplay overview (with pros and cons) and a strategy section.
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Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2012, 08:21:38 PM »
Hey man, I added his arcade to console changes, a section for gameplay overview (with pros and cons) and a strategy section.

...Damn it, back to work T_T.
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desmond_kof

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2012, 08:23:52 PM »
Hehehe, to be honest, wiki's are never really fully 100% 'finished' because information can always change with time and different experiences.
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Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2012, 10:20:48 PM »
I'm learning that the hard way.
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jinxhand

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Re: Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2012, 05:43:30 PM »
Kensou seems so straight forward lol. Seems tough to come up with new tech for him.

But I've seen a cool technique recently. If someone lands on afb near you, you can do rekkas to squeeze in some damage and corner carry

Also I've seen some opinions about kensou being a good anchor. I don't know if I agree with this. What would be the reasoning?

The only thing I can think of would be having access to more ex fb supers.

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

I don't think Kensou is as straight forward as most people think... He has quite a few tricks up his sleeve. He can poke and go right into backflip, which can cancel into a anything that's not a normal... His qcf+B/D can be used as a simple run to build meter and to run behind his projectile... I'm still convinced he has the best fireball traps...

Like I was saying awhile ago, with Kensou you have to constantly think in layers-- tricky layers, but layers nonetheless... You can't keep doing the same thing with him against every character (/obvious) like you can with Kyo, Iori, Terry, and other characters that can use a fairly consistent strategy.

Fireball traps work better for some, whereas others your best bet is rushing down, pushing to the corner for that corner combo. Pending on who you're fighting, you can straight up rush down and poke, step back and do something simple like roll into his qcf,hcb+P... Sure this won't work all the time (pending the opponent), but it's still something useful... You have to really be creative with him, even if it's trying out simple things here and there...

As for him being anchor, I don't think that would fair out... Being 1st or 2nd is good, because he has enough meter to do sufficient damage. I keep him up front because he can build enough meter to at least do a decent DC combo, and sometimes a full blown HD with 2 stocks of meter if need be... But again, this is based on my style of play... Some Kensou players might not build enough meter to do much, so they'll keep him at 2nd... I personally think he fits best up front... That isn't to say he won't be a great anchor, but I've never seen anyone use him as an anchor, even in the older KOFs...

Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2012, 10:47:53 PM »
Alright, a lot Kensou's wiki short of his matchups are filled up.  If ANYONE has any input or fixes to mention, please do so.
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Jon Slayton

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2012, 08:25:50 AM »
I feel like Kensou can work as anchor. I was experimenting with him in tournament recently as anchor, I usually run him second, and it definitely worked out, I got a couple of reverse OCVs with him. The big points are:

More meter for corner throw combos.
More meter for the dp > j.qcb+C > EX DM combo mid screen.
More Meter for command grabs.
Meter for his HD combo which he gets and confirms into very easily IMO.

Then once he's used the meter to kill a character or two, he has all the tools to lame it out and keep the opponent and their fully stocked meter away from him. His only downside is his damage on his HD combo but 700-800 is still passable.

I really don't like him as a point character personally though.

Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2012, 08:56:06 AM »
More often than not, anchors in this game have the tools equipped to annihilate FB users.  Shen, you aren't laming him, hell he can actually lame you out as your FBs do nothing to him.  Hwa Jai, when he has Drink, which he will if you are content with laming out, will let him in for free if you throw a FB, hell even if he isn't Drunk, he has C Dragon Backbreaker.  Vice, no way she's being kept out that easily.  Elisabeth, isn't happening, Clark can get in, Ash...well Ash will out lame Kensou.  Kyo can pick his spots to get in. 

And then once they're in, then what?  Yeah, having the Command Grab is very nice for punishing unsafe stuff and gimmicks but of the above...only Hwa Jai has a move you'd legitimately eliminate from usage thanks to having the meter, whereas on the flip side, they gain more options against yours when THEY have the meter.

Having more meter for Corner Throw combos is somewhat nice, yet ultimately not that big a deal since past 1/1 or maybe 1/2 you aren't getting a ton more damage.  And you can get those meter numbers just as easily from Point or Stopgap.  Same deal for having more meter for that DP combo.

As for meter for his HD combo..so what?  Unless you're extremely adept at the DP>j.QCB+C, run, DP loop, you need the corner to do your solid damage, solid damage that a lot of better anchors can do from anywhere without nearly as much execution.  Without it, you're best at using 2 meters for 700+ damage which is great...especially since he can do that yet again from the other two positions on the team.

As for not liking him as a point character, that's fair enough, but let me make my point.  Kensou works best when his options don't have that many answers.  For most characters, the more meter they gain, the more answers they have to Kensou's options, and more often than not the options Kensou gains still lose to the options he starts to lose.  With meter, Kensou's only changes in options become his EX FB giving him a slightly better FB game, and his Command Grab DM which is good, but still pathetically ranged limiting it to punishes really, and both ways, he can gain them quite easily from point position. 

In the end, for deciding whether a character is a better point or anchor (as pretty much any character can be a Stopgap) it goes like this.  Do your options and damage you gain with the extra amount of meter outweigh the answers your opponent can now gain to you?  In Kensou's case, the answer is honestly no.  His options don't get that much better, and his damage pretty much tops out at 2, maybe 3 meters, which again, he can get at point or stopgap.

Kensou CAN work as an anchor, but ONLY if your team really has absolutely no other answer at that position or if he needs to avoid matchups early.  However, considering to really become good at this game you need to be able to be adept with no less than 6 characters, that should never happen short of messing around or predicting matchup problems.

On 5/26, something that defined a generation shall make its rightful return.  #Toonamisbackbitches.  Prepare yourselves.  Bang.

Jon Slayton

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2012, 05:38:32 PM »
However, considering to really become good at this game you need to be able to be adept with no less than 6 characters,



What do you mean by that, out of curiosity?

I'll give you the stuff you said, but to me, Kensou's lame out really isn't just fireballs, I feel like most of his fighting is done at about the tip of his sweep range until he can get them to hold still for an A fireball, in which case he can run in and do mixups. Otherwise it's just looking for stuff to DP because IMO he has one of the best DPs in the game, since it's done from back, even if you can't get it out in time in response to short hops and stuff, you still block, so it's almost like an option select. That in itself eliminates a lot of the risk in going for a DP against jumpers. So if you eliminate their ability to jump, then they have to deal with Kensou's sweep, and most characters really don't have the pokes to compete with that, which leaves them to guessing short hops (and eating more DPs)

But yeah, A lot of characters DO have answers to fireballs, but there should be a kensou right behind the fireball when you throw one, and they may not have an answer to that when you're attacking in tandem with it. I don't think he's the kind of character you just throw fireballs with. Might as well play ash or saiki if you want to do that.

Anchor definitely isn't the optimized spot for him, but I think he can work it when he needs to. Second is probably... IMO, the best place for him. You'll have enough meter to do what you need to do but the opponent won't have so much of a surplus that it's a big issue for Kensou.

Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2012, 05:57:54 PM »
What I'm saying is that, only knowing 3 characters in this game limits yourself big time.  With at least 6, you have a variety of characters to fit different matchups against different players.  If you've noticed, a lot of top players never stick to the same team composition.  Closest one is Bala, and even then he switches a lot.  It helps to have the extra characters to avoid problems in team composition if you need to avoid matchups.  Example, you know the opponent plays Athena, so you'll want to avoid that matchup as much as possible.  Since Athena usually takes Point/Stopgap, that would mean Kensou would have to take anchor.  However, you can instead switch one of your mains out to another that you have that can run a train on Athena early, and then have Kensou on 2nd.  That way, worst case scenario, Kensou DOES have to face Athena, but it will be on your terms.  And you can do that with a variety of opponents and playstyles.  Learning more characters tends to be a lot more effective as you learn the game, and more importantly learn how other players play.  You know, having things like extra point characters that you know can be a boon.

And I know zoning isn't limited to Fireballs, but since Kensou's normals are nowhere near as good as previous incarnations, he has to rely on the Shoto style of zoning a lot more.  His cr.D and his st.D are about his only actual zoning normals, and any that can avoid his cr.D can handle him pretty well, which is why I advocate him on point or second, but most especially point.  Because even if there ARE characters that can handle his sweep on point, the risk/reward won't get you annihilated.

Stopgap is a solid position, but one thing to keep in mind...EVERYONE can go in that position.  That's why it really isn't the BEST position for him just because for the threats that you can already deal with there, there just as many that can hurt you there.  So it's hard for me to say anyone's really the best there.  But it's definitely a great position for him if you're good at your meter management.
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jinxhand

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2012, 07:40:19 PM »
I'm an advocate of having Kensou at point, pretty much because of all that was mentioned. Starting out first gives him more of a chance against bad matchups than anything else if that becomes the case in round 1.

As far as learning multiple characters go, I agree to a certain extent... If your team is generally well rounded, and you're truly on your game with each character, then yeah there's no reason to swap out... Sadly, Kensou isn't one of those well rounded characters, but I do feel that depending on how strong you truly are with him, he can pose a threat to even the worst matchup... I mean even Xiangfei could go against Nameless in 02UM, and he has way better tools than she does, plus she's like a 1 trick pony imo, but winning is still possible...

Yeah you have to be ridiculously tricky with Kensou to stand a chance if he's on 2nd... I just refuse to place him 3rd, because with my usual team (Kensou/Mature/Billy), both Mature and Billy do more damage than Kensou with full meter, and they work as better stopgaps and anchors. Mature could take point if need be though... Granted, with Billy I have to force the opponent in the corner, whereas Kensou can start anywhere with his combo like Mature, he still doesn't do enough compared to what Billy or Mature can do period...

Even in high level play, you'll see Kensou's thrown in first... Even in team battles, if someone knows Kensou, they're going in first... Not saying do what they do, it just so happens that they apparently feel the same way about him in terms of strength and capability...

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Re: Sie Kensou (Console)
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2012, 12:34:58 PM »