Tier List

[ShadowStorm]

Yeah... that's exactly what I said.

It doesn't matter that kof doesn't have a valid tier list yet, it's just that this guy honestly believes that it kof doesn't have characters that are better than others, and even if it does, that it doesn't matter, because it all depends on the player. Which is just not true. And if someone tries to prove him wrong, he gets mad and sarcastically admits to everything.

[Reiki.Kito]

'Kay.

Tiers are cool and all, but the fact that said top players aren't in mirror matches tells you a lot about the viability of everyone in the cast. Even supposedly low tier. The fact of the matter is there's no huge difference in characters aside from some of their options being entirely braindead. For one, Saitsuofleaves is right when many top players have varying opinions of who is on top. They're really mashed together and the tools necessary to win with a character are not that far away. Having played XIII for a long time, with a characters that have been considered low tier, they can answer a lot of high tier problems.

Definitely, you are right. There are characters who are just braindead and can easily follow a gameplan to victory while putting up a fight. That's baseline until someone understands the gimmick and realizes how much of a gamble it is and how much work it takes to be good with the character. I'll use Kyo as an example. At really high level play, Kyo spends a lot less time throwing out specials and fireballs, and more time using mixups and pressure. The reason being is almost none of his block strings or his specials are safe on block or if you GCAB it. At a mediocre level, Kyo will do fine because someone doesn't understand or have the Kyo experience to fight against it. At the same time, if someone of equal level understands your character even a little bit, and you don't respect it, you're eating a good 40% from anyone. If you're a little higher skill, losing momentum from being thrown out of practically every move you have will suck and even more so with basic cross-up setups.

It is not like Arcade where you had to play the game a completely different way when those characters were on the field. Raiden made you have to pay attention and rush down haphazardly to do as much damage as possible and you'd need to spend meter to get K' pressure off of you. If he touched you, he did near 50% for very little or no meter. This is much different, much more balanced, and makes you respect every character. Even someone as low as Terry. The way I look at the tier list, you can assume the list is right for Day 1 players or immensely high level play. If not, you will barely notice the weaknesses lower characters have.

That's proof enough right there. I can understand if you want to look at tiers to see who will be the easiest person to play (seeing as that's about all it is). However, if you're basing your entire character choice on these characters, and you expect to easily win, that's a bad idea. I'd suggest pick top tier if you don't know how to play really well or you're not sure of your match-up.

As much as people keep yelling and clinging to who's EZ mode, the game's still plenty balanced. So smacking Saitsuofleaves down for saying tiers don't matter is totally unnecessary.

[JuiceboxAbel]

The more unbalanced a fighting game is, the more the tier list matters. And to an extent, I'd say it matters in every fighting game anyway.

HOWEVER

99% of the people who look at tier lists are trash at the game and the information on it doesn't apply to them. They'd be better off picking a character they enjoy and learning basics that way, rather than thinking the character they pick has suddenly made them better. Even worse, let's say you pick a top tier character and start beating people... Does the learning stop? You have no reason not to learn every character if you're competitive.

Unless you're lazy and just want the "easy" way out. Lo and behold, lookie here! A list of the "best" characters!

Buncha scrubs. (Talking to scrubs in general, not the fine people in this thread)

[arstal]

I disagree some, a tier list is useful for someone who is new to the game and wants to be competitive.  It gives them a hint which characters you have to gameplan against (S+ tier broken characters, which KOFXIII really doesn't have), and which characters are unviable competitively  (those may exist in KOFXIII).

A tier list isn't going to make you a better player though.  Also, people do better with certain chars that fit them best.

There's a reason there isn't a JuiceboxBlanka.  ^_^

[ELTRO]

^If there were, the dance wouldn't make sense lol.

Back to the subject, it's hard to say tiers don't matter but I do agree with Saitsuofleaves. Don't let tiers cloud your judgement. Use the character that feels right.

[ShadowStorm]

'Kay.

Tiers are cool and all, but the fact that said top players aren't in mirror matches tells you a lot about the viability of everyone in the cast. Even supposedly low tier. The fact of the matter is there's no huge difference in characters aside from some of their options being entirely braindead. For one, Saitsuofleaves is right when many top players have varying opinions of who is on top. They're really mashed together and the tools necessary to win with a character are not that far away. Having played XIII for a long time, with a characters that have been considered low tier, they can answer a lot of high tier problems.

Absolutely, but I don't recall disagreeing with this. There are alot of characters with different moves, true. What I want to say about this is, though, that for example:
High tier character A has move A, B, C, and D.
Low tier character A only has moves that can correctly respond to High tier character's A and B move,
Whereas High tier character B can correctly respond to all of High tier character's moves.
With this example in mind, you will most definitely see much more of High tier character A and B, than of Low tier character A. Reason being is that they want to win.

Definitely, you are right. There are characters who are just braindead and can easily follow a gameplan to victory while putting up a fight. That's baseline until someone understands the gimmick and realizes how much of a gamble it is and how much work it takes to be good with the character. I'll use Kyo as an example. At really high level play, Kyo spends a lot less time throwing out specials and fireballs, and more time using mixups and pressure. The reason being is almost none of his block strings or his specials are safe on block or if you GCAB it. At a mediocre level, Kyo will do fine because someone doesn't understand or have the Kyo experience to fight against it. At the same time, if someone of equal level understands your character even a little bit, and you don't respect it, you're eating a good 40% from anyone. If you're a little higher skill, losing momentum from being thrown out of practically every move you have will suck and even more so with basic cross-up setups.

I agree with this. Though, in the modern day fighting games, I don't really consider any character to be a braindead character that leads to automatic victory. I am fully aware of how important a mixup game is.

It is not like Arcade where you had to play the game a completely different way when those characters were on the field. Raiden made you have to pay attention and rush down haphazardly to do as much damage as possible and you'd need to spend meter to get K' pressure off of you. If he touched you, he did near 50% for very little or no meter. This is much different, much more balanced, and makes you respect every character. Even someone as low as Terry. The way I look at the tier list, you can assume the list is right for Day 1 players or immensely high level play. If not, you will barely notice the weaknesses lower characters have.

What I personally see as a huge weakness in a character, is if you don't have a significant advantage on knockdown. I'm not a good KOF player by any means, so correct me if I'm wrong... hell, I probably only played the arcade version for a couple of hours at most. But to me it seems that Yuri puts you back to a very neutral position when you knock the opponent down. That is what I consider to be low tier.

That's proof enough right there. I can understand if you want to look at tiers to see who will be the easiest person to play (seeing as that's about all it is). However, if you're basing your entire character choice on these characters, and you expect to easily win, that's a bad idea. I'd suggest pick top tier if you don't know how to play really well or you're not sure of your match-up.

Yes, that is a very bad idea indeed. But see, I didn't say that the tierlist is all that matters, did I? I also said that the character has to fit your playstyle, for example zoning or rushdown or whatever. If your playstyle is rushdown, and the best character of the game (according to the tierlists) is a zoning character, then, obviously, you should not pick that character.

As much as people keep yelling and clinging to who's EZ mode, the game's still plenty balanced. So smacking Saitsuofleaves down for saying tiers don't matter is totally unnecessary.

Just making this clear, I didn't respond the way I did just because he said that tierlists don't matter. It's the mocking and sarcastic reply he gave Tikok, who was merely trying to prove him wrong, even giving him valid examples, that was ticking me off.

[Diavle]

Tiers may not matter in the grand scheme of things to someone but they do if you follow the competitive scene. You can be an awesome player but if you are using lower tier characters then you sure as heck are working harder for your win. Like that one Japanese Joe player (with the white tiger shorts) that was OCVing K' and Raiden teams in the arcade version.

Now if it matters to you personally that's a whole different thing. I'm still on my quest to learn the entire cast, using a new character or two each or every few days. Getting all their bnb combos and gameplans down. All to eventually main the random select box.

[milesw]

Like that one Japanese Joe player (with the white tiger shorts) that was OCVing K' and Raiden teams in the arcade version.

haregoro

[Saitsuofleaves]

It was a shitty argument, and I admitted I'm wrong.  If an argument is shitty, then I wasted his time by even bringing it up.  It's common fucking sense.  I was not mocking him, he killed me in a debate I have no business being in since I'm ass at the game in the first place, so I needed to give him an answer that showed that I was rightfully humiliated.

Fix your fucking sarcasm detector dweebenheimer.

EDIT: Not acceptable. Cool it. - Rex

[Reiki.Kito]

Right, I'm just saying there was no need for the debate in the first place. It's perfectly viable to say tiers don't matter and you'd be pretty right. It's also perfectly viable to say tiers are relevant. I just would be happy to see we can have a difference of opinions without killing each other.

[Diavle]

Like that one Japanese Joe player (with the white tiger shorts) that was OCVing K' and Raiden teams in the arcade version.

haregoro

Yeah, him. His Joe and Maxima are crazy good.

[sibarraz]

The thing with tier lists is always how they are conceived per region too, or at least how the matchups are considered too, which will be hard considering how matchup varies a lot between position and meter usage

At least I'm fine with tier list like XIII and 2002um, in 98um with krauser was a pain though

[darkTown2]

talk about beating a dead horse...

not gonna lie it's pretty funny seeing you guys argue though

[Gimnbo]

This forum should totally have an SNK Engrish filter that replaces "retard" with "dweebenheimer" and "******" with "crazy funster."

[ShadowStorm]

It was a shitty argument, and I admitted I'm wrong.  If an argument is shitty, then I wasted his time by even bringing it up.  It's common fucking sense.  I was not mocking him, he killed me in a debate I have no business being in since I'm ass at the game in the first place, so I needed to give him an answer that showed that I was rightfully humiliated.

Fix your fucking sarcasm detector dweebenheimer.

EDIT: Not acceptable. Cool it. - Rex

Fine whatever, I give up, you win.  Everyone will tier whore, I obviously know nothing.  You win, everyone will pick the top tiers, and there's nothing to stop it, so we might as well head it off at the curve.

You're right.  I was completely wrong and wasted your precious time and for that I apologize for doing that by bringing up such a shitty argument.

Because this most definitely doesn't sound sarcastic at all.

Hmm Hmmm.

I rest my case~