Author Topic: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread  (Read 12862 times)

sibarraz

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The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« on: December 07, 2011, 04:48:07 PM »
Well, let's start this thread to post all the matchups that Andy has, which one he has an advatange, and the others one where he needs to work some more

If people post them I will later put them on the first pages so we could keep them organizated


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sibarraz

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2011, 04:48:27 PM »
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sibarraz

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 04:48:45 PM »
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sibarraz

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 04:49:00 PM »
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sibarraz

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 04:49:15 PM »
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milesw

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 01:48:30 AM »
Can someone experienced who uses andy tell me a few things?

Whats his best anti air

What should i be aware of when playing the fireball war

The uses of kuuhadan outside combos if it has any

How to open people up

Good pokes?

atm my mai team is mai yuri and andy

mai and yuri seem to be comfortable and easy to use in terms of opening people up and nice practical normals.
Andy is an extremely strong character but to me feels very clunky and limited outside of his combos
Someone please help

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sibarraz

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 04:10:57 AM »
1)His DP imo is his best DP, but you can't spam it just like that since the recovery is bad. Also, doesn't had that much priority

2) His hishoken is a good projectile since it has a really good recovery, you should only be aware of those chars who can beat projectiles

3) Is risky, could be used at times as antiair, but is really notorius, and with a worse recovery than his dp

4) Don't understand the question

5) Standing B is a very good poke, plus you can do blockstrings with standing D and fireball after that, or you can just do a HD cancel

Also, his cr. D is a very good move, plus he has tons more options of combo than mai and yuri imo, and are easy to exacutate


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desmond_kof

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 07:55:15 PM »
Can someone experienced who uses andy tell me a few things?

Whats his best anti air

What should i be aware of when playing the fireball war

The uses of kuuhadan outside combos if it has any

How to open people up

Good pokes?

atm my mai team is mai yuri and andy

mai and yuri seem to be comfortable and easy to use in terms of opening people up and nice practical normals.
Andy is an extremely strong character but to me feels very clunky and limited outside of his combos
Someone please help



Anti-air wise it depends on how the opponent is approaching you from the air. If they are super jumping in blindly, then his dp A or C is good if you see it ahead of time. Up close, if they are trying to jump over you or hop towards you, his s.D isn't bad.

Regarding the fireball war, don't forget Andy's fireball is good too, especially is EX. If someone is trying to spam fireballs at you, don't let them punk you, retaliate and throw them right back and surprise them with an ex which will beat theirs out. Like Sibarraz said, he can recover fast from his fireball, so when you catch them about to jump, hit them with a j.CD which is a good air-to-air jump attack.

I'll post more later after I test more things out with him.
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Matt Alder

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2011, 01:52:09 PM »
As for opening people up, I do have a few tricks with Andy;

Since this game has that anti-tick throw stuff, you have to kinda trick people in other ways to get your grabs. Andy's j.C looks like he'll hit someone on jump-in, but in my experience it pretty much whiffs every time if your opponent is not in the air, so you can jump in and do a j.C while you're coming in, and the opponent will often block it leading to a good throw situation for you. Andy's throw is particularly good because he has TONS of time to set up oki (I just use qcb+A and then go in for pressure).

Also his j.D is a very ambiguous crossup, especially if you use it as oki. The range at which it crosses up is very precise, and varies from character to character, but it's extremely hard to read.

His j.CD is extremely strong when used early as well, and if it hits on counter you can get a full combo from his d/b,f+C cancelled into hcf+B/D Brake into whatever.

His BEST anti air is probably actually his dp+AC since it's the only one with invulnerability, but his crouch D is also extremely good, and his stand D almost always snuffs hyperhops and crossup attempts.

To be honest I think Andy has no bad matchups at all. He has such a solid set of moves that he's really got no areas in which he's lacking severely. He's a jack-of-all-trades with better damage potential than Robert, which makes him probably one of the best batteries in the game.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 01:53:52 PM by Matt Alder »

hiltzy85

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 04:17:08 AM »
I've read a lot about Andy being a good battery (which he is), but what are the opinions on him in other positions?  Although he is good without having to use much meter, how much better is he if we has a bunch of meter to burn?  Are his EX specials and DMs good enough for him to be an anchor as well?  How much should his play style change if he isn't playing as a battery?
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Matt Alder

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 05:55:40 PM »
I'm not personally a fan of most of his options with meter. His NeoMAX is really strong, but his other DMs are not very impressive in terms of damage compared to what he can get for free, and they bring him no new tools. His NeoMAX has no invulnerability but you can use it air-to-air and it comes out so fast that it generally can't be stopped unless the opponent's attack is already sticking out. It's a nice new option, but it doesn't warrant putting him on last.

Honestly I think the best use of meter for him is his EX Shoryu, since it's invulnerable and deals a ton of damage. His EX d/b,f+AC is also really strong in terms of damage and comes out extremely fast, plus it's safe. It's mainly just a punisher, as it's not invulnerable. His EX fireball can be really good too, since it's extremely fast and also eats up normal projectiles. He'll have all the meter he needs for that if he's on first. Really those are the only new options he gains from meter.

His HD combos are pretty solid in terms of damage, I'm pretty sure that for his HD combo and 2 super stocks he can get 750-ish damage in the corner looping d/b,f+A/C,hcf+B/D[Brake],d/b,f+A/C repeated until the gauge is nearly empty, and then NeoMAX, or more damage if you want to add a Max Cancel in there off his EXDM (I just play him first, so I'm not sure the exact numbers of damage).

Reiki.Kito

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 08:32:33 AM »
After talking with some tournament players like Metaphysics, here are a few things to note. This is just general knowledge I felt was necessary to know which is good against anyone.

1). He mentioned that using safe pokes and baiting are very important as well as maintaining a good neutral game.
 Going for really basic strings, not ending in specials, keeps the pressure on. He's basically saying don't rely on specials for pressure.

2). Kuuhadan is not safe on block. Going back to point one, you shouldn't rely on the invincible DP. This is the same for Kuuhadan braking which is a little, but still not safe. Things like Kula, K', Ryo, Takuma, even another Andy's low B can beat out Kuuhadan braking at the right time. Even if you were to attempt to beat them with a st.C or a invincible C DP, a well timed hit will beat it out into full combo. Try it once to see if they're privvy, but don't abuse it.

3). Bait out an opponent with hop pressure or normals. Utilize fireball pressure and his EX to score a knockdown, then go for an opportunity for a cross up. You don't want to give too many opportunities to get GCABed during a st.C, f+A combo which is not safe if that happens.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 08:42:23 AM by Reiki.Kito »

Matt Alder

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2012, 06:21:49 AM »
I would agree on all of those points, but the real characters that you need to fear when you do his Brake on block are characters with 1 frame grabs. You're punishable with some fast normals (which is still difficult) but very very easy to punish via normal throw or worse yet command grabs that are instant, such as Shen's EX grab, which can lead to you losing 550 health.

I didn't think that C shoryu was invulnerable in the startup. Is it really? I thought that just the EX version was. If it is, then that's awesome. The EX version still gets way more frames and moves forward much farther though.

hcf+BD is quite safe though, I'm pretty sure. It takes off a huge amount of guard gauge, so it's quite good for guard crush, and you can combo after it in the corner quite well (dp+A, DC, hcf+B [brake], whatever) if it hits for some reason. Note that it is not invulnerable since the console update, but it still works as a counter to most normals since it comes out very quickly and places Andy very low to the ground. In my experience it can beat most non-low normals, and if it's blocked it'll be safe, if low blocked it can cross up mid-attack. Very punishable by A+B guard cancel, so be wary of opponent's block. But yes, quite abusable in the right situations. Low risk and extremely high reward. It's not a crazy useful tool, but it is handy if used sparingly.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 10:59:30 PM by Matt Alder »

Mienaikage

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2012, 10:25:23 AM »
Close standing ;d is quite a good anti air, far ;d is also decent if you use it in anticipation. Also I really like ;fd ;dn ;df ;a because it becomes vulnerable on the first active frame. If you trade with someone that doesn't knock you down you can go straight into ;db ;fd ;c and even follow up from there in the corner/with drive.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 10:27:14 AM by Mienaikage »

hiltzy85

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2012, 07:05:55 PM »
What are the differences in properties between A and C zaneiken?  Obviously I know that C does more damage and travels farther on the screen, but what else?
Is it worse on block?  Does it have slower start up?  Do the active frames start later?  Does it recover more slowly?
It seems like it must start and recover slower, because I don't think you can do  ;db ;fd ;c;db ;fd ;c in the corner after a braked kuhaden (whereas you can obviously do  ;db ;fd ;a;db ;fd ;a)
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