Author Topic: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread  (Read 17039 times)

Saitsuofleaves

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2012, 04:41:13 AM »
I'm no pro, but I would suggest zoning alot with the hishoukens, Raiden is in fact a typical slow grappler, just watch out for that charge shoulder attack he has.

Matt Alder

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2012, 06:16:37 AM »
I need help against raiden
Sweep the leg.

O_O

Seriously, though. Raiden's shoulder charge gets shut down by Andy's sweep.

sibarraz

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2012, 09:46:13 AM »
Andy zoning tools is not that good against raiden, considering that he has a considerable recovery for his fb

And yes, the sweep beats raiden tackle


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sibarraz

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2012, 10:13:19 PM »
Well, I had been dealing better with raiden against andy, so I will say that he isn't a problem anymore

Benimaru in the other hand


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solidshark

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2012, 07:58:59 AM »
ANDY BOGARD
vs Andy
In this mirror match, pressuring and controlling space with Zaneiken and Hishoken is crucial. It's suggested that you rarely jump, and hop instead; if you do jump for something other than crossing up, use j.CD. Keep the Gekihishoken DM handy for rush-happy attacks when you know he's open and just out of reach. Weak Shoryudan or far st.C is a good anti-air tactic against hopping. And don't forget to use Andy's lesser-used chain of B-D into most specials.
 
vs Ash
Ash can be a real pain for Andy, as Ash can put a lot of things in Andy's way, particualrly with Genee. Ventose is typically thrown out faster than Hishoken, Nivose will best a lot of Andy's hop/jump attempts, and Ash's leg reach is annoyingly longer than Andy's, with the exception of Andy's sweep. Best positioning for Andy is mid-screen, slightly out of reach of Ash's kicks like Floreal. If you feel like getting close to him, keep him locked down with cr.B/As and go for empty hop attack, but make sure he doesn't have the meter to use the Fructidor (grab) NeoMax. From across the screen, don't be afraid to counter-spam, but have an EX Hishoken to knock a regular Ventose out or cancel an EX Ventose. Baiting moves like Nivose is one of your best bets for starting a combo from st.C.

vs Athena
A projectile-heavy fighter like Athena, like Ash can be bad for Andy's mobility, though not as bad as Ash. Reflector leaves you in a bad place if you want to trade Psycho Balls and Hihshoukens. If Athena is abusing Psycho Ball for zoning pressure, and you don't mind spending a power stock, EX Shoryudan will whiff her projectiles and hit her if she's still in her attack animation. Rolls at a safe distance away from Athena or hops are best ways of getting around and close to her. Zaneiken is best against her if it hit-confirms off of something like a cl. or far C. Her vertical Psycho Sword is great for baiting if she's looking to anti-air you. When you're on the offensive, don't forget about her Shining Crystal Bit DM, especially if she's got enough stock for EX. If she's on the offensive, you should expect Psychic Throw to open you up for a juggle; it's probabaly best to trade with a cr.B if you can.

vs Benimaru
Beni's long-leg reach and Raijinken as offense/defense can make things really tough for Andy, among other things. Super Inazuma is a really effective anti-air for Benimaru and should keep you from jumping a lot. If you do meet Beni in the air, j.CD or a j.A/B if you're close to him to stop an aerial Raijinken is best; if you do end up stopping an air Raijinken with Benimaru, you might expect a (EX) Benimaru Collider in retaliation. The best counter Andy has to Raijinkens is his sweep, which causes Beni to jump and cross-up usually after. With all Beni's air advantages, try to stick to the ground and pressure with Hishouken, and have a Shoryudan ready to anti-air him if he jumps and ends up not able to cross you up. Don't be afraid to rund and re-position yourself he super jumps.

vs Billy
Billy's keep-away tactics with his Bo means virtually no Zaneiken dashing for movement's sake. Hishouken is good to counter at mid-range, but expect Billy to simply hop over from across the screen. Close up, Daikaitenkeri is his second greatest, most annoying asset. Don't be afraid to GCAB/CD so you don't catch yourself in a guard-breaking loop. If he's got the meter, EX Kyousyuuhiyoukon is his best asset, with it's great invincibility, and it's usually used for a great combo to follow. During the match he'll use it at least once or twice, so don't blindly pressure him without being ready to eat it; gurading when in close is best to let him waste that opportunity. Better to hop against Billy as (super) jumping at him leaves you open to some of his most devastating attacks, especially EX Choukaensenpuukon.

vs Chin
Andy is very viable against Chin. What you have to worry about his being countered or caught unaware with him. His strenghts are low-attacks like Uronkochu that overhead. Keeping distance against Chin makes him more dangerous with Inshu, and he can drink up to five times, increasing his attack power each time. Your best bet is to keep low pressure on him and block-stringing, but also anticipating the Ryu Sogeki counters. If he lands a successful anti-air counter from Ryu Sogeki, you should expect a possible stage-crossing juggle combo to follow.

vs Clark
Clark's Super Argentine Backbreaker (SAB) is his most dangerous weapon, especially with the armor in the C version. Many of his strategies will be based around that attack, and his normals have better reach than Andy's, so be very careful in how you attack closely. Throwing Clark a few times yourself can change his momentum in your favor. Multiple Hishoukens thrown are best done from mid-to-far screen distance. His most dangerous long-reach is Gatling Attack with comes up very quickly off a charge. Long-range sweeps and empty hops on top of Clark are among Andy's most effective strategies.

vs Daimon
Daimon being the grappler that he his, attacks from a distance end up often surprising him. Daimon is as dangerous in the air as he is on the ground with j.CD, especially with it having counterwire properties; basically don't get couter-attacked in the air against that. His normals come hit very fast, especially st.C/D. He's also got an effective air (Kumotsukaminage)and ground (Kirikabugaeshi) grabs. Daimon also wins in a projectile war as Jiranishin shakes the whole ground instantly; be aware that C version is a feint, so it might not always connect with the ground. Your biggest worry with him is his close-in grabs Osotogari and Tenchigaeshi. Best positoning for Andy is just out of reach from his grabs, which is what most Daimon players really want. Andy's far.C should be able to connect, as well as his cr.C/D. If Daimon gets knocked down, take advantage of empty hopping on him and starting a combo from j.C/D.

vs Duo
Duo is an annoyance from long distance with long pokes like Genmu Ken and Genmu Kyaku on the ground, meaning the worst place to be is across the screen from him. His even bigger threat is upclose with the Suteki Juryu rekka. The Hike Kyaku Zen and Hike Kyaku Ushiro teleports make him literally more mobile than Andy. Most times Duo will try to use his pokes, rekkas, and Juon Shikon projectile. Andy should be as mobile as possible against Duo, using hops and jumps with Duo's air assets being weak. Don't be afraid to use spend meter for EX Zaneiken or EX Hishoken to rush him down or catch him off guard. If he's close enough and tries the Juon Shikon, EX Shoryudan is recommended too.

vs Elizabeth
Elizabeth has a strong close-in and uppercut game with Coup De Vent. If you try to use Zaneiken to counter, you have to judge the the version of Coup De Vent correctly; the quicker hit should win out. If she's constantly spamming Coup De Vent, Andy's Gekihishouken is a good deterrent that can make her change her strategy. Etincelles makes for one of the best close-range projectiles in the game for it's speed and potential reach with C version. Also be aware of her Reverie-Geler counter for high, med, and low attacks, putting her right behind you if successfully countered; there's a good chance of her being able to punish you from a low counter, so be careful. Though her command dashes (Reverie-Souhaiter for forward, Reverie-Prier for back)give her a slight advantage, know that she can use Reverie-Souhaiter to go into the Mistral command grab if she's close enough.

vs Hwa
Hwa being without a projectile means that Andy can keep him at bay from at least mid-range with Hishouken. However, Hwa is easily as mobile as Andy is using his own specials like Dragon Kick, making him much more of a threat to meet in the air; Andy's j.CD is mostly recommended unless you're crossing him up. Hwa's normals are great for the close space he controls, and his j.CD has a small hop is great for pressuring, and connecting unexpected hits. Hwa's Drink Pink DM is probably the best power up in the game, meaning once it's in effect, Andy may have to resort to playing keep away more with Hishouken and Gekihishouken DM. Be ready to block low more with his Slide Kick too, as that can be an easy connector into long Drink Pink or HD combos.


vs Iori (XIII)
Iori is an excellent rushdown character, missing the projectile pressuring Andy has with Hishouken. Iori is mostly looking for a starter to use the Yumebiki command normal. You've got more opportunity to use Zaneiken as a teleportation and to attack or hit-confirm if you want to start a juggle. If he's heavily rushing you down, his best options are the aerial Yuri Ori command cross-up, or his Tsuchitsubaki command grab. If you have a desperate Iori with meter, using a raw Yatagarasu NM makes a great anti-air for Iori.

vs Iori (EX)
EX Iori is the tougher of the two versions for Andy. He's well-rounded enough with the Yami Barai ground projectile, Aoihana rekka, and classic Oniyaki anti-air. It's smarter to (empty) hop over Yami Barai, and not use the Zaneiken to rush in. Cancelling firebals with each other can be more in EX Iori's favor, so spending a meter to do an EX will be better for getting on the offensive. Bait the Oniyaki with a vertical hop is another great way to capitalize on a mistake. The best offense against Aoihana for Andy is sweeping; there's chance that Zaneiken will stop him, but more likely it will trade. As much as Iori likes to rush in, don't be too defensive, or EX Iori's Kuzukaze command grab will expose you to probably a meaty, or even HD attack.

vs Joe
Joe's forward attacks can be a problem for Andy trying to rush down. Hurricane Upper is one of the best projectiles in the game, creating a character-high tornado that comes out faster than Hishouken, and Joe will probably EX it if he's got the meter available. Thrust Kick trades well against Zaneiken, and the invincibility frames of Tiger Kick means Joe can pull a good wake-up game on Andy up close. Andys best way to get in for Joe would be by (super) jumping or hopping pressure. If you jump too much, you can leave yourself open for (EX) Screw Upper, so mostly stick to hops.

vs K'
K' can shut down a many of Andy forward attacks like Zaneiken with specials starting off of Eins Trigger. Second Shoot covers the ground with a projectile, and Second Shell acts as his anti-air ground kick. Hopping in with j.C/D or j.CD , or EX Hishouken is the best offense to this. If you think he's going for a Second Shell, bait it with a Kuhadan (break) or empty hop. On the offensive against K', his quick cr.B and Crow Bites (B version) can catch you.

vs Kim
Kim's legs are long and dangerous, and can move forward well with Yopuchagi and Hangetsuzan. In the air is another place Kim can give Andy's defense a problem; with the Kuchugetsuzan over hear air attack, expect to block standing more often, or be ready with a Shoryudan. If there's a bit of space between you, Kim could cover that extrememly quickly with EX Hangetsuzan. Hienzan and Hououhitenkyaku DM is bad if you like jumping a lot, but you can empty hop to bait and punish both moves. You should meet Kim in the air with Andy's j.CD mostly, on the chance he uses the Hououkyaku DM in the air.

vs King
King is a great offensive character that can give Andy a  hard time. Venom Strike is her most used move, and she can and will zone with it by ground and air; if you don't feel like using a meter to EX Hishouken to counterattack, it's best to be patient with getting to her, walking and waiting for her to jump or Tornado Kick your way. When you're on the offensive, expect a Trap Shot or two and be ready to block it. Her Slide Kick is also far reaching and will get you low if you're not careful. Outside of (EX) Trap Shot, Andy should be rushing her down and preventing her from zoning. Don't forget about EX Shoryudan if she's in the middle of a Venom Strike from mid-range or closer.

vs Kula
Andy's strategy for Kula should be like his strategy against K', with several glaring exeptions. Counter Shell with take a Hishouken and throw it back at Andy if he's zoning too much with it. Slider Shoot is the longest-reaching slide in the game, and can be independently countered (or trade) with a sweep or Shoryudan. Slider Shoot plus Diamond Breath should make you think twice about using Zaneiken to advance all the time. Like with Benimaru, stay away from the corner as much as possible. If you're constantly jumping in on Kula, she's got powerful tools to stop you, including two DM and her NeoMax, so hop or stick to the ground more.

vs Kyo (XIII)
Original XIII version of Kyo should be fought similar to how EX Iori is. His Yami Barai ground projectile is better for hopping over instead of counter spamming with Hishoukens. Oniyaki is best baited by empty hoping just out of reach of it. Oborogurma makes for a great anti-air, but empty hopping can still be caught by it. Kotokskio is quick enough that even at a little further away than mid-screen, I'd say still block it. Don't forget the EX version turns into a command grab. Andy will have to guard mostly against Kyo's Naraku Otoshi from the air, leading into cr.Bs into Kai for juggling. Meter used to GCCD Kyo's constant Naraku Otoshi juggle barrage is meter well spent.

vs Kyo (EX)
NESTS-style Kyo, unlike OG XIII Kyo, is a Kyo Andy can spam more with Hishouken from a far, though EX Kyo can still counter that with his R.E.D. Kick, especially the EX, heat-seeking form. Mid-range or closer, Kyo's 104 Shiki: Aragami rekkas give him a good reach that can hit Andy better than his longest range moves. Along with having armor properties and albe to swat Hishoukens down, Andy's best defense against it is an EX Shoryudan or sweep. 100 Shiki Oniyaki at EX is almost a vortex that will toss you around if hit; it's best to block it and stay the length of a Kyo rekka away. Don't be afraid to pressure or punish with Zaneiken or Shoryudan if you catch him jumping. As intimidating as EK Kyo can be on the offensive, being put on the defensive against a good EX Kyo player can kill you.

vs Leona
Leona isn't that big a problem for Andy with damage, but her tools make her tricky if you're not careful. She keeps a good defense as a charge character with Moon Slasher as her best anti-air, and Baltic Launcher as her best rushdown and preventing Hishouken spamming. When she throws the Earring Bakuden, be ready for her rushdown from above; when she's not using that, move around with Zaneiken; punish with it if you bait a whiffing Moon Slasher. Her Strike Arch is very valuable for overheading and following up with an EX X-Calibur to be punished severel on the ground. And if you see her in the air a lot, hopping or jumping, she's looking for an opportunity with the V-Slasher DM, so be very careful if you're trying to anti-air her with Shoryudan or even Kuhadan.

vs Mai
Mai's great reach with normals and Kachosen fan throw makes getting in for Andy, or even using Zaneiken has to be very strategic. She's got great air and evasion tactics with Musasabi No Mai (both charge and command motions), and many air motions can be cancelled into her tricky Ukihane overhead. Like King, she's mostly looking to keep a distance between herself and Andy (for once). Chasing her down with j.CDs and Hishoukens can put her in a difficult place to get out of. Watch out for her Shiranui Ryuu Kunoichi no Mai NM though; if she's in a bind and she's got the available meter and drive, it's worth it for her using it for how quickly it moves and it's diagonal path.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 09:20:16 AM by solidshark »
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SPLIPH

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2012, 02:02:41 AM »
Could use some advice on Andy vs Chin.

I dont understand how to fight him in general, but Andys my best char and he feels like my weakest against Chin.

B~D chain almost always whiffs. Fireball is useless. I find it very hard to get in and stay in on him. I feel like I cant rushdown at all, and Andy cant switch to the shoto game as the usual alternative.

 Im not really sure what my options are aside from trying to bait counters. I just try to press forward so he cant drink, while trying to be careful, but it doesnt get me very far. I only ever win a round on Chin when I can bait a lot of counters.

I do better against Chin with characters that have better reach on their normals.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2012, 05:46:23 AM »
Well, I think for Andy, your best bet is to keep mixing up the high low pressure. Don't depend on jumping as much and punish appropriately. Try to take the time to see what kind of habits the Chin player has. Some people like to abuse his roll, but think of it like Zaineken. If they don't cancel it, it's not safe, they can free cancel on block, but that move ends their pressure. Also, you can interrupt it before it hits you with an invulnerable move. If they do some EX afterwards, pay attention to the meter.

Also, sometimes do not try to knock them down. Go for resets where you can get mix-ups and make them guess how to block or if they should risk countering. Once you got him cornered, he doesn't have much in terms of reversals aside from counters. He also has very bad reach normals. You can use moves like fire standing C or your blowback to use as pokes just to annoy him once he's cornered.

I think that really destroys him, when he has no way to gain initiative in neutral to start his combo. You also want to take full advantage of when he jumps. Chin has some nice air normals, but his jump arc is pretty floaty. Do your best to nail him for jumping at you and be the look out for when he does. Also, remember since you're at a far enough range, he has to run in or do moves to move at you to do his overhead or mix ups. Try to keep that distance to make them commit to getting in close range and make a mistake. Oh, and if he starts whiffing normals, use Zaineken. Outside of meter moves, I don't think Chin has a really good punish for it. If they whiff, poke him with it.

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Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2013, 12:18:36 PM »
Bala Vs Koopa Money Match

What is the mistakes that Bala did against Mr Karate..??
also any tips vs Karate .Saiki & Robert..??