Author Topic: Terry Bogard (Arcade Version)  (Read 58136 times)

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #135 on: October 07, 2011, 09:46:48 AM »
So, I've found that in order to do a lot better with Terry, I need to start learning blockstrings and frame traps. I also want to work on a set pattern that will guard crush them as long as you go through the whole string. Any help is appreciated. Remember, I'm trying to make a string of attacks that will cause guard crush or bring them fairly close to it.

What I've come up with is d.D -> df+C -> qcf+AC -> qcb+D -> st.C (2 hits) -> df+C -> qcb+D -> st.C

The bold should be guard break. Now, I'm pretty sure if they're blocking low, they can't interrupt it and if they're aware, they'll take it until they blowback or guard roll out of it. Which is good either way. Do you think this is good? How should I change it to reflect command grab opponents? Comments and the like are welcome.

Rex Dart

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #136 on: October 07, 2011, 07:07:36 PM »
So, I've found that in order to do a lot better with Terry, I need to start learning blockstrings and frame traps. I also want to work on a set pattern that will guard crush them as long as you go through the whole string. Any help is appreciated. Remember, I'm trying to make a string of attacks that will cause guard crush or bring them fairly close to it.

What I've come up with is d.D -> df+C -> qcf+AC -> qcb+D -> st.C (2 hits) -> df+C -> qcb+D -> st.C

The bold should be guard break. Now, I'm pretty sure if they're blocking low, they can't interrupt it and if they're aware, they'll take it until they blowback or guard roll out of it. Which is good either way. Do you think this is good? How should I change it to reflect command grab opponents? Comments and the like are welcome.

Well, you never ever want to use qcb+D on a character with a one-frame grab (which, in the console version, is going to be MANY characters). When I pressure grapplers with Terry, I usually stick to qcb+B into a hop mixup.

That's a pretty great blockstring.

Violent Kain

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #137 on: October 07, 2011, 07:17:27 PM »
You can apply pressure with crack shoot but the D version leaves you open for down attacks, so use b version

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #138 on: October 07, 2011, 07:54:05 PM »
The reason I'm using d.D, df+C into D crackshoot is because I want them to block low. Terry gets put in positive frames if someone blocks D crackshoot crouching. That's why I'm forcing him to block low. I tried it in training mode recently and the computer doesn't let go of guard in between.

I know a lot of people have command grabs, but I figured the frame advantage would beat it out and give Terry enough chance to hop afterwards just like his B.

metaphysics

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #139 on: October 07, 2011, 09:32:57 PM »
well the stuff you're talking about will work against those who don't understand how terry block strings work, however here is a fair warning against those that do.

d.D, df+C into D crackshoot is not a true blocksting and even especially if they are not standing ( I know that's exactly what you want, but there is a benefit on the opponent's side too) I'm sure you are aware that some characters can down. B you before crackshoot is able to hit you, doing D version makes it much easier to see and execute, free combo for them.

Another disadvantage is if they block high, anything you stick out afterwards will get stuffed by their normals, unless you rising tackle. however against CMND grab characters you can't even do that to escape, free punish for them, your only option is to block, or eat a punish against cmnd grab characters.

like any game that involves another opponent, you try to test the opponent's knowledge and abuse what he doesn't know, however for those that do terry becomes a difficult character to use. Mr.KOF said, if I recall correctly, that terry's game play is too predictable and against opponents that understand him I tend to agree, the thing is only a handful of people really know but if your terry becomes dominant enough they will go out of their way to find out
" you fight well in the old style"

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #140 on: October 07, 2011, 09:56:54 PM »
well the stuff you're talking about will work against those who don't understand how terry block strings work, however here is a fair warning against those that do.

d.D, df+C into D crackshoot is not a true blocksting and even especially if they are not standing ( I know that's exactly what you want, but there is a benefit on the opponent's side too) I'm sure you are aware that some characters can down. B you before crackshoot is able to hit you, doing D version makes it much easier to see and execute, free combo for them.

Another disadvantage is if they block high, anything you stick out afterwards will get stuffed by their normals, unless you rising tackle. however against CMND grab characters you can't even do that to escape, free punish for them, your only option is to block, or eat a punish against cmnd grab characters.

like any game that involves another opponent, you try to test the opponent's knowledge and abuse what he doesn't know, however for those that do terry becomes a difficult character to use. Mr.KOF said, if I recall correctly, that terry's game play is too predictable and against opponents that understand him I tend to agree, the thing is only a handful of people really know but if your terry becomes dominant enough they will go out of their way to find out

So people with command grabs that know to command grab after crackshoot are the problem? What about d.D, df+C, qcf+AC, qcb+D?

While powerwave is hitting, they're still in block stun. Couldn't I safely do crackshoot against a grappler then or just run up to extend guard damage with another d.D, df+C? Also, if the last hit of this string is crackshoot, assuming it does hit, wouldn't the threat of a command grab be nullified because they got guard broke? I know that he's very linear, but I feel like there's still plenty of things to try. It might be because I haven't played the game as long as everyone else, but there's got to be potential in this approach somewhere.

metaphysics

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #141 on: October 07, 2011, 11:23:20 PM »
You know crackshoot D sounds a lot better than it actually is, try it out next time you go to the arcade hey if it works it works. But the way you use crackshoot D after ex fireball is already super unsafe and easy to uppercut, there is a huge gap where the player is not in blockstun, 

However I am always a believer that a player should try things out for themselves to really be able to understand the significance of it.

Oh and also yes command grab characters are big problem for since it shutsdown all of his ways of getting in safely and applying pressure
" you fight well in the old style"

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #142 on: October 07, 2011, 11:44:37 PM »
It's not like I don't trust what you're saying, I just don't understand. When someone is hit with EX powerwave, they should still be blocking or they're going to eat the power wave anyway. While it's hitting, I should be able to connect one or two hits from a D crackshoot. What you make it seem is that the fireball will disappear, they'll come out of blockstun, and I'll get hit with a DP and that's where I'm confused.

metaphysics

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #143 on: October 08, 2011, 01:25:39 AM »
What you make it seem is that the fireball will disappear, they'll come out of blockstun, and I'll get hit with a DP and that's where I'm confused.
Ex fire ball doesn't cause enough blockstun , they'll get out waaaay before crackshoot D reaches hitting frames, and since you want them to crouch block they'll have even more time to react
" you fight well in the old style"

Kane317

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #144 on: October 08, 2011, 03:32:18 AM »
Reiki:  When you practice these combos, are you setting the AI to do guard+jump.  That's the only way to test true blockstrings.  When I tested your combo (btw, you'd be happy to know that I went to the Arcade today, first time since...before Evo?) the AI jumps after the df.C but gets hit by the qcf+AC, hence, they can do something fast like back roll or forward roll depending if they don't have a quick reversal.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #145 on: October 08, 2011, 03:53:57 AM »
The qcf+AC after the df+C isn't a link, kind of like Kula. The difference between is that you can't really jump it on reaction.  As you mentioned, even the computer can't jump it. If what they know to backwards or forward roll when I do it then it would be bad, but I think that the reaction speed you'd have to have to do that is high. If they timed it wrong, they'd spend meter doing a guard cancel roll.

Does that mean the qcf+AC part isn't going to work?

metaphysics

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #146 on: October 08, 2011, 03:59:38 AM »
The qcf+AC after the df+C isn't a link, kind of like Kula. The difference between is that you can't really jump it on reaction.  As you mentioned, even the computer can't jump it. If what they know to backwards or forward roll when I do it then it would be bad, but I think that the reaction speed you'd have to have to do that is high. If they timed it wrong, they'd spend meter doing a guard cancel roll.

Does that mean the qcf+AC part isn't going to work?
qcf+AC is not the problem, it's how you try to follow up with Crackshoot D that wiil not work, if you really want to test that to make sure, after the ex fireball comes out hit start then put it to 1 gaurd jump, and it will jump at the very first possible moment it's out of blockstun you will see he gets hit almost at full hop distance from crack shoot, the gap is pretty significant
" you fight well in the old style"

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #147 on: October 08, 2011, 04:47:50 AM »
Okay. So that's not going to work the way I want, but couldn't you continue pressure with a run-up St.C? It also makes me wonder if you can't use HD mode to push your blockstring since that's exactly what I was intending at first to do once I got a guard break.

Well, a clean guard break string doesn't look possible right now, but I'll keep at it! Something hotpockets told me was interesting though. Rather than continue a string while they're standing, forcing them to block on wake up would be good to. After Burn Knuckle, he said a well-timed EX powerwave could make them eat it or force them to block which could lead into hop-ins or more guard pressure? That sounds a little difficult, but pretty nice if I can get it to work in my gameplay.

Kane317

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #148 on: October 08, 2011, 05:01:21 AM »
The qcf+AC after the df+C isn't a link, kind of like Kula. The difference between is that you can't really jump it on reaction.  As you mentioned, even the computer can't jump it. If what they know to backwards or forward roll when I do it then it would be bad, but I think that the reaction speed you'd have to have to do that is high. If they timed it wrong, they'd spend meter doing a guard cancel roll.

Does that mean the qcf+AC part isn't going to work?

Well the qcf+AC has a lot of startup and it's easy to see/get ready to punish the gap.  Forget doing GCCDs (which only does 10dmg), some Ex moves will go right thru like Shen's Ex qcf+P, Kula's Ex qcb+K, Chin's Ex qcb+P...

Basically it's not a true guard crush blockstring.

metaphysics

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Re: Terry Bogard
« Reply #149 on: October 08, 2011, 05:19:08 AM »
Okay. So that's not going to work the way I want, but couldn't you continue pressure with a run-up St.C? It also makes me wonder if you can't use HD mode to push your blockstring since that's exactly what I was intending at first to do once I got a guard break.

Well, a clean guard break string doesn't look possible right now, but I'll keep at it! Something hotpockets told me was interesting though. Rather than continue a string while they're standing, forcing them to block on wake up would be good to. After Burn Knuckle, he said a well-timed EX powerwave could make them eat it or force them to block which could lead into hop-ins or more guard pressure? That sounds a little difficult, but pretty nice if I can get it to work in my gameplay.
  Reiki we should just play one of these days oh well we'll wait till console I suppose
" you fight well in the old style"