Author Topic: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread  (Read 116410 times)

b4k4

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2012, 10:33:15 PM »
I'm curious to know what this thread thinks of Duo Lon. I've been having some success with the character so far, but I can see limitations in his damage output and real mix up options. Teleport crossups and resets can work against beginner to intermediate players, but I sense that he just isn't tricky enough to really open up advanced players with solid fundamental defenses. He seems like a lot of work for not quite enough damage. I'm not saying I'm going to let perceived tiers define who I play, but I am making an effort to become a serious contender in this game and have my sights set on taking some local tournaments in the near future. Does Duo Lon pay off in the long run, or is one of those characters where it's too much work for not enough reward?

ELTRO

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2012, 10:45:18 PM »
one of Duo Lon's best tool is canceling CD with rekkas on a knocked down opponent. He pretty much phases through the opponent and create a weird mix up situation. The good thing about it is that you can delay the CD cancel to be in front of the opponent so you don't get repetitive.  I wouldn't consider him top but he's good enough if you put time into it.
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b4k4

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2012, 11:07:05 PM »
The CD whiff into Rekka cross-up is a really unsafe mixup for not much reward, though. I'd prefer something that gives me a much safer option select. Straight up, I've played a lot of King, and I find her to much safer and more solid all around. That being said, her play style is a little boring to me.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2012, 11:35:48 PM »
I don't quite see why the Rekka mix-up on a knockdowned opponent is unsafe. For one, if you whiff the CD fast enough, the animation doesn't even come out visibly. Even if they guess which side, doing it the moment they wake-up means they'll either throw or guess the right way for a DP/DM reversal. If they block, you teleport. You'd have to guess which side they'll be on which is a 50/50.  You can also whiff cancel his teleport for even more right-left mixups.

b4k4

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2012, 12:03:52 AM »
I was under the impression that teleporting after blocked rekkas was at least throw punishable. Actually, it was a post I read on command grab punishes. I need to test it more myself, but it stated that 1f command throws were able to punish qcf+B after blocked rekkas. Clark/Beni/Daimon/Vice are all in this category, and are probable encounters on point. Metagame considerations, and I don't have to use the CD cross up setups on them, but it does merit concern.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2012, 12:10:35 AM »
It is punishable, but in order to command grab, you need to know which side you're on.

Which again is a 50/50. You can also cancel into an EX if you REALLY don't want to get thrown.

Kane317

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2012, 01:39:19 AM »
It is punishable, but in order to command grab, you need to know which side you're on.

Which again is a 50/50. You can also cancel into an EX if you REALLY don't want to get thrown.

I just wanted to add that this is mostly true since it is faster however DL's Ex teleport is only invulnerable in the beginning and he can be thrown definitely while he's moving.

The s.CD crossup still works well on intermediate players which I tested yesterday at the UCI Casuals.    The best thing for the opponent to do is either do a real quick reversal, block forward (which you mentioned can still be susceptible to mix ups) or roll backward (which is they're best option honestly.)

As for where I would put Duo Lon, I would put him in the mid-top tier, I think although he has had quite a few minor damage buffs that help him overall since he's lots of hits from all different directions, that being said, he had better mixups in the arcade due to the system's hitboxes.

BioBooster

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2012, 03:57:40 AM »
^sure. A pity that his j.B is no longer cancellable into f.B. Was great for continuing pressure for more rekkas..

b4k4

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2012, 06:04:55 AM »
^sure. A pity that his j.B is no longer cancellable into f.B. Was great for continuing pressure for more rekkas..
Wait, what? Yes it is o.O.

Matt Alder

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2012, 07:17:18 AM »
Any early guesses on Mr karate? He seems like he can really maul once he gets in
crossup after reset can be quite brutal, but once you're used to the matchup his low reach (aside from far C->f+B) is really a downside. He seems like he's particularly strong vs. low level players who get caught off guard by his resets and his unblockable. Personally I think Takuma is stronger overall since he has the command grab, and somewhat better damage with meter and higher damage HD combos (for now).

Don't get me wrong, Karate is a goddamn beast for damage and has just as many options as Takuma, but he loses lots of his tricks against people who know his gameplan whereas Takuma is a bit more unpredictable. But who knows, he's only been out for a couple days, he certainly has room to grow and gain new mixup potential. The fact that he doesn't have as high damage and lacks a command grab over Takuma is kinda painful at the moment but he's still crazy good. In terms of defense Karate beats Takuma hands-down. Invuln shoryu, EX counter for a full combo, or early Brake shoryu for some severe anti air damage are all crazy tools.

Of course I haven't really played AS Karate much, just done his trials, but I've been playing against my friend's dedicated Karate main all day. I don't know all that much about the character aside from what I've been taught over the course of today.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 07:20:08 AM by Matt Alder »

BioBooster

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2012, 07:30:41 AM »
^sure. A pity that his j.B is no longer cancellable into f.B. Was great for continuing pressure for more rekkas..
Wait, what? Yes it is o.O.

For reals? Don't us duo, but was watching some vids mentioning j.B>jf.B could no longer be done, tried for a bit in practice and couldn't pull it off. D-:

I'll check that I wasn't on crack as I would like for him to have that. Is there some trick to doing it? If I can't execute that I think it's time for me to take up smash bros or lay off the crack - lol

Reiki.Kito

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2012, 10:05:33 AM »
I think Mr. Karate has some honest damage ability and pretty safe attack options. Even though he can't rip your life bar up with that constant command grab loop, he does a great deal of damage for little resources.

Diavle

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2012, 12:52:30 PM »
^sure. A pity that his j.B is no longer cancellable into f.B. Was great for continuing pressure for more rekkas..
Wait, what? Yes it is o.O.

For reals? Don't us duo, but was watching some vids mentioning j.B>jf.B could no longer be done, tried for a bit in practice and couldn't pull it off. D-:

I'll check that I wasn't on crack as I would like for him to have that. Is there some trick to doing it? If I can't execute that I think it's time for me to take up smash bros or lay off the crack - lol

Yeah I'm pretty sure I've done it in practice as well the few times I took Duo Lon there, I think you're supposed to connect the j.B as early as possible to be able to cancel it into f+B.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 12:54:16 PM by Diavle »

BioBooster

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2012, 02:44:04 PM »
Yeah shit, I was able to do it today hitting with j.B on the way UP off of hops. Thx guys, at least this sorry mystery has been dispelled for me. When I was trying it on the way down I think it must have been working too, but was hitting the ground before the animation could come out.

Karate finally got released for us today.

Have been messing around with him. Seems to have a ton of potential and is crazy fun to play. Can't really place him yet, but he def feels up there.

Dandy J

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2012, 11:25:05 PM »
For reals? Don't us duo, but was watching some vids mentioning j.B>jf.B could no longer be done, tried for a bit in practice and couldn't pull it off. D-:
They mean the instant overhead fuzzy setup on wakeup doesn't work anymore.