Author Topic: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread  (Read 118510 times)

Sharnt

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #105 on: April 05, 2012, 08:51:16 AM »
Tier List

I'll try to explain how I see things :
- Right-Upward Corner (Karate to Vice)
Top tiers, they have everything and don't really rely on meter to come close. Plus they are able to do a ton of damages with a few gauge.

- Left-Upward Band (Takuma to Clark)
Very strongs characters in their speciality. But they often lack some options or have terrible defaults (How do you survive against an aggro opponent once he is in without meter while playing Takuma?), but well used they may be the best char in the game (One touch one death with Takuma/Joe, you can't lose if you have the advantage with Leona and few meters, if you mindgame your opponent Clark is ... ).

- Right-Middle Square (Kensou to King)
Strong character with their hadotrap but not quite top tier because of the weakness of the hadotrap in this game : charge to much gauge for the opponent.
Nevertheless they have often all kind of tools (from dp to command throw) and are very versatile.

- Left-Upward Square (Kim to Elizabeth)
Good pressure characters but often lake of tools (Something against hado for Kim by example) or are too relying on meter (Shen), or top tier characters are just better overall ...

- Others (Kula, Goro, Ryo, Billy, Terry)
Kula has a lot of tools and is especially good against hadotrap, plus she can apply a really harsh pressure.
Goro is amazing in this game, but he can be zoned a bit easily by some characters. Plus he is really weak against crossups, a speciality of a lot of character in this game.
Ryo is very strong, but his pressure has lot of holes exploitable.
Billy is very strong, he is just not quite top tier.
Terry has a good pressure but someone who knows read his crossup, tech throw, and guard his qcb.K high won't let him open the guard quite often ... the char is not bad, others are better that's all.  
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tastylumpia

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2012, 10:19:05 AM »
I don't understand how you can tier a char like Shen lower (who is not meter dependent, in fact a great battery ) then have chars like Vice and Claw Iori up there who are obviously more meter dependent. Very inconsistent list.

Observing lists in general, it seems tiering is based primarily on major factors such as relative damage output and toolset and placements reflect individual biases towards these characteristics (IMO, matchups should factor as well). For example those tiering Claw Iori so high obviously do so because of his absurd BnB damage, however Ex Iori is the more well-rounded character, just does not benefit from meter nearly as well.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 10:24:15 AM by tastylumpia »
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Reiki.Kito

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #107 on: April 05, 2012, 10:35:31 AM »
I do think Vice is fairly solid and pretty top, but I do agree with Tasty in saying the reason she's top tier in this list is kind of inconsistent. She requires stock meter, quite a lot of it, to be effective. She's nowhere near a great battery character.

She has amazing pokes with her air and st.CD as her dominating specials. With proper spacing, she's great, but she truly is not versatile or dangerous without meter. That's her big crutch.

Anyway, good list, though I'll continue to say people who low ball Terry are not giving him a fair shake.

sibarraz

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #108 on: April 06, 2012, 02:37:34 AM »
The thing with vice, is that with meter, is just one minor screw up and you are death, even though it depends a lot if you had the meter and your opponent has his last character

I will put her in the mid or upper mid, being generous


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tastylumpia

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #109 on: April 06, 2012, 02:42:37 AM »
I don't mean to single out that list, my thought is that constructing a list you have to be consistent in factors weighted. A lot of these lists seem to lack consistency in that they rate one character high with certain attributes, but another character arbitrarily low with similar attributes without clear reasoning behind it.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 02:46:47 AM by tastylumpia »
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Frofighter

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2012, 12:00:03 AM »
Strange... Seems like after initially disagreeing with Dune, people are falling back to placing Terry as the game's worst character. Makes me sad to see. I do agree he's not great, but I think the character's tools and performance are being underrated right now. Granted, the only Terry to have done well at a national was Shinblade, who opened my mind to the concept of a more defensive Terry style. I'm intrigued how he'll develop as the game moves on.

Also, did anyone check Justius's tier list? A lot of things there that aren't common in the U.S. school of thought right now, such as EX Iori being the better of the two and Mr. Karate not being top tier. Another thing I thought was strange was that he thinks Robert is on the lower end of the cast. Any thoughts?
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Mr.KOF

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2012, 03:02:10 AM »
Strange... Seems like after initially disagreeing with Dune, people are falling back to placing Terry as the game's worst character. Makes me sad to see. I do agree he's not great, but I think the character's tools and performance are being underrated right now. Granted, the only Terry to have done well at a national was Shinblade, who opened my mind to the concept of a more defensive Terry style. I'm intrigued how he'll develop as the game moves on.

Also, did anyone check Justius's tier list? A lot of things there that aren't common in the U.S. school of thought right now, such as EX Iori being the better of the two and Mr. Karate not being top tier. Another thing I thought was strange was that he thinks Robert is on the lower end of the cast. Any thoughts?


I guess I'll have to pick Robert and Terry to see where they place at THE RUNBACK tournaments.

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Saitsuofleaves

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2012, 03:40:45 AM »
Mr. KOF, no bluffing, you don't got a Terry >_>.
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Terrastorm

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2012, 04:12:18 PM »
Strange... Seems like after initially disagreeing with Dune, people are falling back to placing Terry as the game's worst character. Makes me sad to see. I do agree he's not great, but I think the character's tools and performance are being underrated right now. Granted, the only Terry to have done well at a national was Shinblade, who opened my mind to the concept of a more defensive Terry style. I'm intrigued how he'll develop as the game moves on.

Also, did anyone check Justius's tier list? A lot of things there that aren't common in the U.S. school of thought right now, such as EX Iori being the better of the two and Mr. Karate not being top tier. Another thing I thought was strange was that he thinks Robert is on the lower end of the cast. Any thoughts?
Link?

azunadrop

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2012, 05:35:52 PM »
It is from his interview that was on the DreamCancel frontpage a while ago.

To the interview: http://www.mmcafe.com/kof13-skye-interview.html
Straight to the tier-list: Click me!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 06:08:03 PM by azunadrop »

LouisCipher

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #115 on: April 12, 2012, 01:41:12 AM »
The problem with Terry is that there's nothing unique about him. He has two EX Super whereas most of the cast has only one, but his Power Gyser is completely worthless because it's too slow. If you want to mixup, there's other characters that are way better than that, if you want to zone and use his EX Power Wave you could just use Saiki and abuse his Projectile Super which is way better.

He's not bad, but there's nothing unique about him that gives him an X factor. Unlike Leona who has some interesting tech that can make her very dangerous and sets her apart from other characters.
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nothingxs

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #116 on: April 13, 2012, 04:41:00 PM »
The problem with Terry is that there's nothing unique about him. He has two EX Super whereas most of the cast has only one, but his Power Gyser is completely worthless because it's too slow. If you want to mixup, there's other characters that are way better than that, if you want to zone and use his EX Power Wave you could just use Saiki and abuse his Projectile Super which is way better.

He's not bad, but there's nothing unique about him that gives him an X factor. Unlike Leona who has some interesting tech that can make her very dangerous and sets her apart from other characters.

No. The problem with Terry is that he's not like a KOF character. He doesn't play by hopping incessantly and trying to score some hits and opening you up. He's a more relaxed, footsies-oriented character that relies on his very strong normals (cr.B, far C, st.A, close C, df+C, far D, cr.D cancel into Power Wave, C+D) to set up his area, with an amazing crossup and a good wake up pressure tool in EX Power Wave. He has a really fast knockdown overhead that lets him set up his crossup game in EX Crack Shot. His Power Geyser has partial invincibility and can be used to punish overzealous players with a reaction super. He has a RIDICULOUSLY easy, high-damage Neomax combo. He has a simple, easy combo that does decent damage for one drive (and one bar out of the corner).

He's one of the SF4 Transition Characters, as I like to call him. Because he does not fit the primary mentality of the KOF player, which is "how will I rush down today," he is ill-fit to fight in the same way as every other KOF character. He's link King, but slightly more extreme.

LouisCipher

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #117 on: April 13, 2012, 06:14:57 PM »
That's one way of looking at it but it's very wrong. Yeah, Terry can zone but again not as well as other characters. Amazing crossup? It's a good crossup but if you're looking to setup oki why not use Beni or EX Iori? And his Power Gyser is complete ass, it's not fast enough to catch someone rushing you. And his Neomax is okay, pretty easy to land but the damage is terrible in the corner.
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Mr.Minionman

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #118 on: April 13, 2012, 08:26:42 PM »
Anyone have an opinion on maxima in terms of character balance? I'm still rather new, but I feel he does really well against heavy rushdown because of his autoguard, but has a hard time against fast characters with good midrange pokes. I've been looking for some Maxima play, but I can't seem to find any good games with him, or any sort of high level play. I'm wondering if the reliance on autogaurd has a part in that, i'd imagine he's a very dangerous character to play in high level play because of how punishable just about all of his whiffed normals are, and that better players are alot harder to read.

LouisCipher

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Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #119 on: April 14, 2012, 01:05:52 AM »
Maxima is a niche character. He's basically a nerfed grappler who has bad matchups against half the cast and can get easily blown up if you rely on autoguard. I'd definitely put him in the low end of the tier list despite the damage he can do with meter because getting in with him is amazingly hard to do.
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