Author Topic: Gameplay video critiques  (Read 63611 times)

Crazy Li

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2015, 10:10:16 PM »
Latest videos if anyone cares: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3c020jz8PA

Things I'm aware of:

-I have no ability to hit confirm... I'll keep going with my combos when initial hits are blocked, putting me in unsafe situations. This is probably something that won't improve any time soon since I just seem totally incapable of telling if something was blocked or not until it's too late to react. I do fully understand what I'm supposed to do when the initial hits are blocked versus when they connect... but the move I actually perform is often incorrect due to me just guessing since I can't tell the difference fast enough

-I'm using sweeps incorrectly. Most notably Athena's... I do a lot of deep c.D which I don't believe I should ever be doing. I imagine it's highly punishable off block. I need to re-train myself to sweep as more of an anti-air tactic than something to punish a whiff

-I present no threat in the air due to a total lack of jump-in starters. Timing jump-in hits to combo ranks among the hardest things for me to do in KoF... no matter how much I try to practice it, I can't seem to apply it to real matches. With Yuri, I need to be able to do stuff like j.C, D, DM but just can't seem to and thus never really give myself an opportunity to use her meter

Have I missed anything?

Please don't tell me not to empty Slider Shoot though. I never once did that on purpose. Also don't tell me not to empty Chou Upper. There's no way I actually wanted to randomly Chou Upper from all the way on the other side of the screen. I was going for Haou Shokouken
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 10:11:54 PM by Crazy Li »

BodyOrgan

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2015, 06:02:22 PM »
Latest videos if anyone cares: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3c020jz8PA

Things I'm aware of:

-I have no ability to hit confirm... I'll keep going with my combos when initial hits are blocked, putting me in unsafe situations. This is probably something that won't improve any time soon since I just seem totally incapable of telling if something was blocked or not until it's too late to react. I do fully understand what I'm supposed to do when the initial hits are blocked versus when they connect... but the move I actually perform is often incorrect due to me just guessing since I can't tell the difference fast enough

-I'm using sweeps incorrectly. Most notably Athena's... I do a lot of deep c.D which I don't believe I should ever be doing. I imagine it's highly punishable off block. I need to re-train myself to sweep as more of an anti-air tactic than something to punish a whiff

-I present no threat in the air due to a total lack of jump-in starters. Timing jump-in hits to combo ranks among the hardest things for me to do in KoF... no matter how much I try to practice it, I can't seem to apply it to real matches. With Yuri, I need to be able to do stuff like j.C, D, DM but just can't seem to and thus never really give myself an opportunity to use her meter

Have I missed anything?

Please don't tell me not to empty Slider Shoot though. I never once did that on purpose. Also don't tell me not to empty Chou Upper. There's no way I actually wanted to randomly Chou Upper from all the way on the other side of the screen. I was going for Haou Shokouken

Hey Li,

These matches seem to go about the way our matches have gone. You poke, zone, and occasionally run in to attack just to change things up, but it's usually to poke a couple times to bait the opponent to come after you where you start to poke/zone again.

I'm not sure about the opponents you were fighting, but it seems like there was a good deal of input lag as punishes either didn't happen, or were too delayed to actually punish. One of the earlier matches against Andy it looked like the opponent spent the entire match trying to figure out the timing to punish you (they were always late), but weren't able to in the end.

Personally I think the reason you're not improving on hit confirms is your character choice. I say this because your description of all your problems matches all my problems to a T, and your character choice is similar if not the same as mine used to be. Right now you're using their zoning abilities as a crux.

After switching characters I've come to the conclusion King, and zoners in general aren't very useful in completely learning to play the game. What I feel like they teach is how to play keep away. Useful, especially when a characters game play revolves around this, but if you're new the game, then you will always fall back on it, and not spend any time learning to hit confirm or attack using the various jumps, etc... (this was me) because all of that is so much harder than just zoning.

Since switching to characters that either can't zone or only half a*s zone such as Flame Iori, Terry, or Kula (which you play, and you're better at hit confirming with her than your other characters IMO) I've been forced to learn how to hit confirm into a combo both from the air, and the ground. You've probably noticed in a lot of the matches we've played you've generally life lead me right up till I get the one crucial hit I need. I recommend you switch to a few half a*s zoners, and a few non-zoners such as EX Kyo, Ralf, Vice, etc... You'll also feel the input lag more with non-zoners because they rely on being able to punish unsafe moves which is really hard to do when there is input lag.

If you do end up switching characters which I hope you do for your sake, then you need to spend time in practice learning the simplest combos you can use to punish mistakes with. When I mean simple, I'm talking ultra simple such as EX Kyo's st.C, qcf.D~D, hcb.D for 262 damage, and a hard knockdown for a further mixup attempt. These can be used against the CPU in VS because the CPU makes a lot of mistakes. After getting some simple punish combos down move to working on low combo starters. Learn really easy simple ones which don't require a great deal of input, then move to jump in combos (I'd work on these last because adding the jump in is difficult for beginners - 4 jumps, spacing, etc...). Managing to execute any of these simple combos against someone online or local will really boost your moral to say .... Hey I CAN do this! It will further motivate you to improve more.

Lastly, drop Yuri (for now). I realize she can fit into the half a*s zonning category, so she's the type of character I'm telling you to play, but she's a special case. It might just be me, but IMO her BnB starters are far harder than other members of the cast, and understanding how to play her is more difficult, so I wouldn't recommend her to learn from. I was stubborn, and tried to stick with her, and the end result was I never got any better. I think she's a character you come back to after you've gained enough experience.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 06:05:37 PM by BodyOrgan »

Cynical

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2015, 08:53:28 AM »
So, here's some footage of me getting smashed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7oltR2X_Qw&feature=youtu.be

Training mixed in with matches.  Matches at about 4 minutes to about 20 minutes, and about 35 minutes to about 38 minutes, and about 45 minutes to the end.

There's so much going wrong that I honestly don't even know what I should be working on.  Every time I try to be "active", I get smashed, but turtling also gets me killed.  Execution is... problematic, to say the least.  

More specifically, with Billy, I can't get people respecting the threat of the A-pokes enough to set up any kind of offense (and getting that damn mash move by accident doesn't help matters); with King, every fireball I throw seems to get me killed, and I can never make any space once anyone is on me; and with Shen, I have have no idea WTF I'm doing (I've watched the Juicebox tutorial for the character, but standing back and charging rush-punches or waiting for people to jump just seems to get me killed), but I really have no idea how to fix any of these.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 08:58:16 AM by Cynical »

desmond_kof

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2015, 02:05:24 AM »
Cynical, how long have you been playing KoF13? I want to know this before I share with you things I've noticed in your first two matches.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Cynical

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2015, 02:55:01 AM »
About a week and a half.

I'm quite new to the game, and don't really have a handle on the basics (obviously), despite having watched several video tutorials (watching and doing/truly understanding really aren't the same thing).

desmond_kof

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2015, 03:07:48 AM »
About a week and a half.

I'm quite new to the game, and don't really have a handle on the basics (obviously), despite having watched several video tutorials (watching and doing/truly understanding really aren't the same thing).

Ok...firstly, you need to change your attitude a bit about your expectations about your gameplay (calling the video Worst KOFXIII play ever or whatever) and just embrace learning through time and experience

Secondly, you might want to do a bit of research and training mode on what moves are safe/unsafe. A couple of times you didn't punish a few moves because it seemed as if you were unsure if you could punish or not.

Thirdly, you should look into what normals your characters have that can be use in different situations offensively and defensively. With King for example, you should use far C and far D to stop incoming hops at a mid-range distance. With Billy you can use crouching C (heavy punch) as a grounded anti-air, and j. A as an air-to-air attack. Shen you can use j. CD as an air-to-air or air-to-ground (be mindful that it can be low profiled), and his crouching C as an grounded anti-air.

You also gotta keep grinding those combos. They will start coming together with more practice and experience. After you get it down on a still dummy, you should turn on the CPU for you can practice on a moving target.

"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Cynical

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2015, 04:45:40 AM »
Thirdly, you should look into what normals your characters have that can be use in different situations offensively and defensively. With King for example, you should use far C and far D to stop incoming hops at a mid-range distance. With Billy you can use crouching C (heavy punch) as a grounded anti-air, and j. A as an air-to-air attack. Shen you can use j. CD as an air-to-air or air-to-ground (be mindful that it can be low profiled), and his crouching C as an grounded anti-air.
Should I be trying to react to a "hop vs. full jump" situation from my opponent, or should I be trying to read and preempt him?  I find a lot if times I stick out a King or Shen far standing C to try to stuff an expected hop, only to have someone do a full jump instead and land right on me.  Trying to react to a hop seems tough, and it's hard to tell based on range which they'll do since hop D's and hop CDs tend to have pretty huge range.

desmond_kof

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2015, 05:09:20 AM »
Thirdly, you should look into what normals your characters have that can be use in different situations offensively and defensively. With King for example, you should use far C and far D to stop incoming hops at a mid-range distance. With Billy you can use crouching C (heavy punch) as a grounded anti-air, and j. A as an air-to-air attack. Shen you can use j. CD as an air-to-air or air-to-ground (be mindful that it can be low profiled), and his crouching C as an grounded anti-air.
Should I be trying to react to a "hop vs. full jump" situation from my opponent, or should I be trying to read and preempt him?  I find a lot if times I stick out a King or Shen far standing C to try to stuff an expected hop, only to have someone do a full jump instead and land right on me.  Trying to react to a hop seems tough, and it's hard to tell based on range which they'll do since hop D's and hop CDs tend to have pretty huge range.

You're going to have to preemptively deal with hops at a mid to close range. Throwing out jabs or any kind of normal that is at shoulder height or higher can deal with incoming hops, plus if you whiff them the recoveries aren't slow. The only disadvantage to jabs is using them against opponents who aren't jumping, that can possibly sweep you.

With grounded uppercuts (Billy's cr. C, Shen's cr. C, King's cr. C) are useful against regular jumps, which can be easy to react to especially since you are just pressing a direction button down and the heavy punch button instead of doing a full special move motion (which may be needed sometimes). So take advantage of your characters normals to take up space around you and defend yourself from the opponent trying to rush you down.

Check out this tutorial if you haven't, it will help bring up some things I've mentioned with strong visual examples:

! No longer available
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 05:37:38 AM by desmond_kof »
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Cynical

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2015, 05:35:29 AM »
Does that mean I should avoid using Shen far standing C for anti-hop usage?  I had seen it mentioned as his premier anti-hop tool, but damn that thing is out there for a year and a half if you whiff it.

(Also, I think you have the wrong link; that's a Guilty Gear finals at Final Round).

desmond_kof

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #69 on: June 08, 2015, 05:42:53 AM »
Does that mean I should avoid using Shen far standing C for anti-hop usage?  I had seen it mentioned as his premier anti-hop tool, but damn that thing is out there for a year and a half if you whiff it.

(Also, I think you have the wrong link; that's a Guilty Gear finals at Final Round).

You have to space it properly to use it as an anti-hop tool, plus it has a small amount of auto-guard frames (armor) that might help if the opponent is trying to hop in with their own jump heavy punch, heavy kick or j. CD. Also, don't be afraid to zone with neutral hop j.A, j. D or j.CD to stop incoming hops too. Feel free to use your characters normal attacks to zone and poke with to keep opponent at bay and for you can mount your own offense.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2015, 06:52:02 PM »
I'd like to add, you need to really work on your punish combos. Out of the few matches I watched you never punished the opponent for whiffing things in front of you. For example, when EX Kyo threw the Mu Shiki super (Flaming column followed by a full body flaming punch) that you blocked, you should have punished with a combo starting with st.C into something....The same can be said when their Kim whiffed the DP in front of you, and you jumped away. Run in, and pop them with a st.C starter into some combo.

The reason you're getting blown up when using fireballs with King is your spacing. You're spacing yourself such that a simple jump from them will catch you while you're still in recovery frames. You need to be further back so that they'll need to use a super jump to reach you, and you'll be out of recovery frames. If they jump at you then, you'll want to use EX Trap Shoot (Invincible, a regular trap shoot will trade if they throw an attack) to catch them. Make sure to follow the EX Trap Shoot with a combo because you can tornado kick afterward which IIRC can be drive canceled into other stuff.

Last thing I'll mention for now is the j.C, cl.C you connected with King quite often. Finish the combo:  j.C, cl.C, df+D, qcf+BD, hcb+D (DC), qcf+B = 415 damage or j.C, cl.C, df+D, qcf+BD, hcb+D (DC), qcf+B, hcb+D = 484 damage.

Cynical

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2015, 05:00:06 AM »
Ok...firstly, you need to change your attitude a bit about your expectations about your gameplay (calling the video Worst KOFXIII play ever or whatever) and just embrace learning through time and experience
So... uh, what am I supposed to think when I'm losing literally 4 out of 5 games to people who have literally 0 games played before they face me?

Because that's actually how I'm performing right now.  There's literally no room for debate that I'm the single worst player playing this game.

EDIT: Correction,  it's actually closer to I lose 9/10 against people who have literally never touched the game before, lol.  And that's after I've played about 120 games and spent over 20 hours in training mode, and have years of experience in other fighting games.  There's definitely something completely wrong with my approach, and I have literally no fucking clue what.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 05:31:39 AM by Cynical »

BodyOrgan

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2015, 05:46:14 AM »
So... uh, what am I supposed to think when I'm losing literally 4 out of 5 games to people who have literally 0 games played before they face me?
You don't think I/we lose to people who have less hours in the game than us.... ha ha ha!!! Yeah, I get curb stomped sometimes by people who just get things.

Here's the take home to his statement: "embrace learning through time and experience". There is no shortcut.

desmond_kof

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2015, 04:58:05 PM »
Ok...firstly, you need to change your attitude a bit about your expectations about your gameplay (calling the video Worst KOFXIII play ever or whatever) and just embrace learning through time and experience
So... uh, what am I supposed to think when I'm losing literally 4 out of 5 games to people who have literally 0 games played before they face me?

Because that's actually how I'm performing right now.  There's literally no room for debate that I'm the single worst player playing this game.

EDIT: Correction,  it's actually closer to I lose 9/10 against people who have literally never touched the game before, lol.  And that's after I've played about 120 games and spent over 20 hours in training mode, and have years of experience in other fighting games.  There's definitely something completely wrong with my approach, and I have literally no fucking clue what.

Well, how do you exactly know if someone really hasn't played the game before? Are you judging from a person's online profile? Are you asking a person how many hours or games they played? Why do you care about that?

Beyond all that, you are focusing too much on just numbers, stats and the outcome when you should be focusing on the process of getting better. Be thankful of the struggle, all players go through it, even the good ones.

Just keep playing and trying to examine and fix your gameplay. Take a million losses if you can, it doesn't really say anything about who you are as a player in my opinion.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Cynical

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Re: Gameplay video critiques
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2015, 05:35:53 PM »
Ok...firstly, you need to change your attitude a bit about your expectations about your gameplay (calling the video Worst KOFXIII play ever or whatever) and just embrace learning through time and experience
So... uh, what am I supposed to think when I'm losing literally 4 out of 5 games to people who have literally 0 games played before they face me?

Because that's actually how I'm performing right now.  There's literally no room for debate that I'm the single worst player playing this game.

EDIT: Correction,  it's actually closer to I lose 9/10 against people who have literally never touched the game before, lol.  And that's after I've played about 120 games and spent over 20 hours in training mode, and have years of experience in other fighting games.  There's definitely something completely wrong with my approach, and I have literally no fucking clue what.

Well, how do you exactly know if someone really hasn't played the game before? Are you judging from a person's online profile? Are you asking a person how many hours or games they played? Why do you care about that?
This probably falls under "judging from a person's online profile", but when someone has a 0-0 record and does "BURN KNUCKLE!  BURN KNUCKLE!  CRACK SHOOT!  BURN KNUCKLE!  CRACK SHOOT!  CRACK SHOOT!  BURN KNUCKLE!  BURN KNUCKLE!  CRACK SHOOT!  BURN KNUCKLE!" interspersed with tons of jumps that sail miles over my head and sweeps after blocked burn knuckles that are somehow counter-hitting my close Cs despite Burn Knuckle being incredibly minus on block, it's not a terribly unlikely guess.  

When I play against him over and over in the ranked match queue and see that every single one of his wins is against me and throughout the night he's racking up losses to everyone else he faces, it makes it a 100% unavoidable fact that I'm the worst KoF XIII player at least currently.

Or, if you want to make it even simpler, look at it from the other guy's perspective -- when you see a guy with a record of roughly 3 - 125 (that is to say, me), and then you OCV him in your first game ever, what would you think of your opponent?  I'm guessing something along the lines of "holy christ, what a tard."
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 05:38:09 PM by Cynical »