Author Topic: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!  (Read 50364 times)

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2012, 04:09:29 AM »
I haven't played fighting games in a long long time (and before was never serious). Anyways, one of the hurdles I'm trying to climb is attempting to put together a team for KOF, so here are some of my questions:

Why did you pick Robert over Ryo? Is there any character similar to Chris from '97-'98? And when forming a team, is it better to diversify (ex: grappler, zone, balanced) or just pick what appeals to you?

This is an interesting question, but for the sake of accurately answering it, I have to ask some questions as well (or rather, you have to ask YOURSELF some questions).

What is your GOAL when playing KoFXIII? Why are you playing this game? How good are you trying to get? Do you plan on being a COMPETITIVE player?

If you do not plan on entering tournaments, then play your 3 favorite characters in any order you please. It's as simple as that. Having fun is the most important thing.

However, if your goal is to be competitive, then there are a variety of issues to consider. First and foremost, which characters appeal to you? Try playing these characters first. Learn them DEEPLY. What I mean by this is, learn AND PRACTICE the various combos you need to know, as well as the nuanced situations in which your moveset is useful (practicing setups and multi faceted offense is essential). To be considered competitive in KoFXIII, it is ESSENTIAL to know an optimal meterless BnB (both midscreen and in the corner) as well as the most practical meter using combos for each character you play. I recommend learning the optimal 1 bar 1 drive, 2 bar 1 drive, and 2 bar HD combos for every character you decide to play. Learn the best normals used in hop offense. Learn the best anti airs. Learn the most optimal hit confirms. This takes many, MANY hours, and cannot be done unless you play against real people for an extended period of time. AFTER you learn all of this, ask yourself two things:

A. Do I still like this character?

B. Can I WIN with this character?

If you answered no to either of these questions, drop that character. Drop the character, and don't look back.

Although this may sound harsh, as a competitive player it is a massive waste of time to play a character who you feel is a burden. As a competitive player, your goal is to win. If you feel that your character cannot win, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Keep in mind that I'm not saying you should just "pick a top tier", but rather that even good characters just might not suite your play style or mentality. For example, Duo Lon can be a really scary top tier character in the right hands, but if you aren't the kind of player who can utilize his style of play even after tons of practice, then in your hands he's garbage, and it probably isn't worth it to play him. AS A COMPETITIVE PLAYER, IT IS IMPORTANT TO PLAY THE CHARACTERS WHO YOU BELIEVE WILL BRING YOU THE MOST COMPETITIVE SUCCESS.

It is also VERY IMPORTANT to note that there is a HUGE difference between losing because your character is bad, and losing because YOU are bad. Sometimes this can be a hard concept to really wrap your head around, but always ask yourself if you are losing because of glaring character weaknesses, or (more likely) because you fought someone who is straight up better than you.

To answer your questions specifically, I picked Robert because his normals are awesomely suited to my playstyle, he has a taco crossup, a command grab, and he's a badass. I never put in the time to learn Ryo, he never appealed to me (but I still think he's a very competitive character). I have never played Chris in any KoF game, so I cannot answer this question directly. I will consult other players in the community for you to see if they have any suggestions.

Diversity of character types on a team does not matter at all. I know a few strong players who play K', Kyo, and Iori as their team. Although I think this is very lame and boring (lol), it works for them. You can even play Raiden, Daimon and Clark on a team if you know how to do it properly! One thing that is very important, however, is TEAM ORDER. This is because your first character is limited to 3 meters, and your second character is limited to 4 meters. Because of this, you will find that it is more practical for your second and third characters to use meter rather than your first character. The implications of this are nuanced and depend on your specific team composition. It is your responsibility to determine the best uses your characters have for meter, and then to order them accordingly.

I hope this was helpful! Let me know if you have any more questions!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 04:36:45 AM by davidkong07 »
In it to win it!

desmond_kof

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2634
  • Practice everyday without neglect
    • View Profile
    • DesmondDELAGHETTO youtube page
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2012, 06:12:18 AM »
I hope you don't mind me answering this David:

Is there any character similar to Chris from '97-'98?

I wish Chris was in this game, because I mained him in 98 and a bit in 2002.

Chris is a unique character but the VERY, VERY closest I would personally say is similar to him by a small, margin has to be Athena. They both have:

* a teleport (qcf+K),

* both of their cr.D have low, flat hitbox profiles

* they both are fast,

* their st. B's can be used to stop hops (Athena's has a more high angle though),

* they both have good j.CD's (Chris' is better though)

But that's all. No annoying flip command throw, no slide, no easy crossup j.D (Athena's j.B isn't bad), no j.B, etc.... I play Athena like Chris but with a psycho ball and reflector.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2012, 07:29:57 AM »
No problem Desmond, you saved me some work! haha
In it to win it!

Titus Groan

  • New Challenger
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2012, 09:31:54 AM »
Thanks guys! I appreciate the in depth responses of both. Some of Ash's normals looked vaguely similar (perhaps that was wishful thinking) so I've been trying him out. I'll pick up Athena though.

Do you have any tips on how to play her as a rough Chris? While I remember enjoying him, I do remember the specifics like you have! Also, out of curiosity, who else do you have on your team?

Is there anything like a WakeUp Shoryuken podcast for KOF? Dream Cancel Radio appears to have sputtered out and I'd love to hear some discussion on characters, strategies, and community news!

Thanks again!

desmond_kof

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2634
  • Practice everyday without neglect
    • View Profile
    • DesmondDELAGHETTO youtube page
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2012, 09:57:16 AM »

Do you have any tips on how to play her as a rough Chris? While I remember enjoying him, I do remember the specifics like you have! Also, out of curiosity, who else do you have on your team?


To be honest, I don't think you should play her as she is Chris because she doesn't have many of the tools on the ground close up and in the air as he did. Yeah, they have a few move similarities but the overall they aren't the same.

Is there anything like a WakeUp Shoryuken podcast for KOF? Dream Cancel Radio appears to have sputtered out and I'd love to hear some discussion on characters, strategies, and community news!

I was the one that produced the show and we were thinking of moving to eLive for some live shows but kinda ran into a brickwall on the technical side. We were also getting a little busy ourselves with finding time to record the shows and gather people on skype for it, but honestly I would love to bring it back for more gameplay focused discussion, we just gotta get the right guests for it.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Titus Groan

  • New Challenger
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2012, 11:56:22 PM »
To be honest, I don't think you should play her as she is Chris because she doesn't have many of the tools on the ground close up and in the air as he did. Yeah, they have a few move similarities but the overall they aren't the same.

That's a shame! I think more than specials, I enjoy characters with solid normals (which I felt Chris had). Sort of bummed out that another character didn't show up with a similar moveset, I rather enjoyed him.


I was the one that produced the show and we were thinking of moving to eLive for some live shows but kinda ran into a brickwall on the technical side. We were also getting a little busy ourselves with finding time to record the shows and gather people on skype for it, but honestly I would love to bring it back for more gameplay focused discussion, we just gotta get the right guests for it.

I understand. Life can get in the way of things. Using WakeUp SRK as an example, I'd love to see something similar to the Viscant episodes. Even though I'm not a Marvel player, I enjoy his commentary and insight immensely.

Titus Groan

  • New Challenger
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 01:06:23 AM »
I've tried a ton of characters out and now I need a helping hand or nudge to get me to just choose a team and play them.

Here are a few that I've enjoyed playing (or played against):
Ash, Shen Woo, Fireball Kyo, EX Kyo, EX Iori, Robert, Andy, Ryo, Benimaru.

Since I lack the knowledge of how these character perform with and without meter, could anyone give me an idea of how to balance them as a team?

I'd like to add that I am leaning towards a EX Kyo, Robert, Shen Woo team. For an idea of my gameplay style: I enjoy controlling the Neutral space well and solid characters with solid normals.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 01:10:00 AM by Titus Groan »

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 07:21:55 AM »
I'd like to add that I am leaning towards a EX Kyo, Robert, Shen Woo team.

If this is true, you have just answered your own question. Learn these three characters deeply, like I mentioned before. All three of these characters are very competitive, and arguably top tier. Go with your instinct. There is no need to second guess yourself regarding which characters you like to use at this point in your learning process.

In terms of team order, in this case I would personally recommend either of the following orders:
Ex Kyo First, Robert Second, Shen Woo Last
Shen Woo First, Ex Kyo Second, Robert Last

Shen Woo is an extremely versatile meter user. He can succeed in any position. Contrary to what some would argue, Shen is an excellent first character. He is also one of the best anchors in the game. His comeback potential with meter is simply monstrous. He can do his optimal HD combo both midscreen as well as in the corner.

Robert functions extremely well with meter, especially because he has excellent (but very hard to execute) mid screen and corner HD combos. You will find yourself using mostly 1 meter no drive, 2 meter 1 drive, or 2 meter HD combos with Robert.

EX Kyo has excellent 1 drive 1 meter combos. With Robert and Shen Woo as teammates, he is the weakest anchor out of the three. He also does very well as a first character.

Of course, these are only my suggestions. Your goal as a player should be to learn your team to a degree where you know much more about them than I do. Eventually you will have to make your own decision regarding what is the most optimal team order.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 03:57:38 AM by davidkong07 »
In it to win it!

lindseyboi

  • Rising Dragon
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2012, 05:28:16 PM »
Howsit, Im a kof noob and a really like the game. Please can you give me a short breakdown on this video

KOF XIII:知ってると得する(かもしれない)Part.2


davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2012, 01:50:34 AM »
Howsit, Im a kof noob and a really like the game. Please can you give me a short breakdown on this video

KOF XIII:知ってると得する(かもしれない)Part.2



Although I don't speak Japanese, this video is showing that half circle inputs will be simplified in KoFXIII Climax.

Basically, any half circle inputs that require you to do  ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd will now only require you to do  ;bk ;dn ;fd.
Similarly, and half circle back inputs that require  ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk will now only require that you do  ;fd ;dn ;bk

This means you don't have to hit diagonals when doing half cirlces. Fireballs and uppercuts will stay the same, and WILL require you to hit the diagonal motions.

THIS IS ONLY VALID FOR KoFXIII CLIMAX IN THE ARCADES, SO IF YOU'RE PLAYING ON CONSOLE YOU STILL HAVE TO HIT DIAGONALS WHEN DOING HALF CIRCLES.

This change should not make any difference in competitive game play. Anyone who is having trouble doing half circle motions is probably still a beginner in the learning stage.

I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any further questions!
In it to win it!

lindseyboi

  • Rising Dragon
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2012, 09:13:30 AM »
Thanks davidkong07 , really appreciate it. :)

Vash419

  • New Challenger
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2012, 08:57:53 AM »
Hello, i am just trying to pick up KOF13, I have never played a kof game before i am normally a umvc3 and sf4 player but i enjoyed watching the streams of kof so much I decided i'd attempt to play it lol. I have done the tutorials and feel very overwhelmed, i know i would like to try and play clark but idk if hes good or garbage. I dont normally play grapplers and am just looking for a little advice on where to start in the game itself and any character suggestions, Thanks alot for your help!!

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2012, 12:33:09 AM »
Hello, i am just trying to pick up KOF13, I have never played a kof game before i am normally a umvc3 and sf4 player but i enjoyed watching the streams of kof so much I decided i'd attempt to play it lol. I have done the tutorials and feel very overwhelmed, i know i would like to try and play clark but idk if hes good or garbage. I dont normally play grapplers and am just looking for a little advice on where to start in the game itself and any character suggestions, Thanks alot for your help!!

Since you are a brand new player and feel overwhelmed, I recommend you take it slow and just enjoy yourself. Fool around with the game and see if you really enjoy it before committing to it hardcore.

The character trials in the game are useful sometimes, but for the most part they are all VERY impractical and are not meter optimized for damage. Don't stress about doing all the character trials, unless it's just something you really enjoy doing.

The coolest thing about KoFXIII for new players is that NO CHARACTER is garbage. You can play anyone you want and do well competitively. Clark is totally awesome and really scary. Make sure to use his air throw in your setups! For videos of Clark, check out players like BALA and Kane317. They have played Clark on various streams. Dig around these channels and I'm sure you'll find something:

twitch.tv/iplaywinner
twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming
twitch.tv/offcast

Try to meet up with your local scene. You will learn exponentially more playing with other people than you will playing by yourself. Since you are just learning, it should also be easy to get other players to play with you, since you won't be destroying them right away.

When you are in training mode, I recommend first practicing all of your bread and butter combos before moving on to setups. Concentrate on learning these basic combos for your characters:

1. Mid screen meterles max damage combo
2. Max damage combo into Level 2 super, no drive
3. Basic HD loop for your character

Start all of these combos with a jump or hop in C or D. This will get you used to the jumps in KoF. Once you have mastered this, there is a ton of more advanced stuff to learn. But don't even worry about that for now. Just jump in and explore the game! At this early stage, learning will come naturally with experience. I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any further questions!
In it to win it!

TarMa971

  • New Challenger
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2012, 04:39:56 AM »
hi,

is there a shortcut to do DP motion (in combo) when you are in crouch position ?

For example: 2lk, 2lk, DP.

Actually i'm doing this way: 2lk, 2lk, neutral, 623, but i have some troubles on the 2P side (i use arcade stick).

Thanks.

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2012, 05:28:08 AM »
hi,

is there a shortcut to do DP motion (in combo) when you are in crouch position ?

For example: 2lk, 2lk, DP.

Actually i'm doing this way: 2lk, 2lk, neutral, 623, but i have some troubles on the 2P side (i use arcade stick).

Thanks.

I do not know of a useful shortcut for DP from a crouch position. If you are having problems specifically on the 2P side but not on the 1P side, it is simply a muscle memory issue. I recommend simply grinding out some training mode on the 2P side for all of your relevant combos.

For further details on all the input shortcuts in the game, please see this thread started by Kane317:

http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1725.0


I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any more questions!
In it to win it!