Author Topic: terry bogard matchup thread  (Read 9718 times)

dmick1981

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terry bogard matchup thread
« on: March 12, 2012, 10:26:42 PM »
Can someone help me out with terry vs. Clark, takuma/mr karate, benimaru, and leona matchups

Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 10:57:22 PM »
Terry vs. Clark

This matchup you have to know very well because it's a matter of zoning and blockstring choices. You won't have much room for error. On the neutral game, where you're both not near each other, Clark is going to try to do hop/jump CD all day to get in. Don't let him do that. Every time you can, jump straight up over him and use jump D to poke him. Clark's jump CD is tilted down so its hitbox is also tilted down. This means that moves that come from above him won't work.

When he does get in, you need to be ready to use C rising tackle if he uses is B SAB. The reason being is C rising tackle comes out in 5 frames. When it does come out, it has an extra couple of frames where you're at the height you can hit Clark. You'll knock him out of his SAB all the time.

He's a command grappler so blockstrings ending in D crackshoot (If they block standing), you need to be ready to jump. He can grab you right out of it, but if they're not paying attention, you can hop straight up for a quick combo from their whiffed grab. Keep pressuring him and always take the initiative. Don't let him gain an opportunity to mix you up.

Always remember that the Gatling Attack is not safe on block. Any version. Most Clark players will try to grab you and most of the time, if you use slow moves, they will hit you. However, if you use d.B at the earliest time, you'll hit him before he is able to grab. EX version, I would just jump straight up. They either block or they whiff their grab.

Terry vs. Takuma/Mr. Karate/Benimaru/Shoto-esque characters

Takuma, Mr. Karate, and Benimaru all share a similar type of gameplay style. Zone until they get in your face. For Takuma and Benimaru, they also have similar threats in command grabs (and normal grabs in the corner). They utilize fireballs and anti-airs to keep you out until they can pressure with neat cross ups or mixups. The best way to fight them is to get a hard knockdown and apply copious amounts of pressure. Go for the d.B, d.A, d.C blockstring into power wave or EX power wave to keep them blocking, then go for the cross up.

If you notice any shoto/fireball-like character is trying to keep you out, EX power wave and C power wave eat fireballs. C powerwave also scores a soft knockdown which, if they're not ready for, could give you a cross up or a free way to get in. Stay outside of their grab range and poke them with far C's, catch jump in's with df+C, and rush in with low B's to keep them stuck. What I like to do is run up, do d.B twice, st.B, then do CD. The CD comes out pretty fast and you can whiff cancel it into a fireball or crackshoot. I prefer to do crackshoot to keep pressuring them and frame trap them.

Remember, Terry's D crackshoot, if they block low, is a frame trap. You're +2 frames on block. If you think they're going to command grab you, just jump up and they'll whiff it. Same with a normal grab. If not, use st.C or d.B/d.A as they're your fastest moves. If they try to press any normals or specials, you'll beat them.

Specifically for Takuma, he has no means of anti-airing. You should poke at that and get in his face a lot. He can't grab you if you time your jump-in's right so you can keep pressuring him with hop mixups like d.B x2, hop D, sweep, df+C (You can cancel your SWEEP into anything as well, especially df+C or a fireball, try that too)

Above all else, stay lucid. Don't get into the same strings of attacks and pressure. Give them raw aggression and never ease up.

Terry vs. Leona

This is sometimes a tough match especially if you like to jump and your opponent is reactive. You need to take advantage of every hard knockdown and unsafe move Leona does. For example, if she does her blockstring (d.B x2, f+B, qcf+P). It's not safe. You can run up and punish her. When she throws her earrings and runs up with her slash attack, that is safe. What you want to do is jump the earring on its first bounce and throw out hop D. I did say jump, but you actually need to hop that fireball.

Be mindful of her moon slasher and baltic launcher. You, as a Terry player, need to be patient with Leona. Don't let her get comfortable with her hit and run tactics. She will run at you or just turtle. Whenever you see the orb attack (Baltic launcher), get in close and throw a C power wave or an EX power wave. The reason is because they go through the orb and knock her down every time. Same with her earring, your fireball eats it. Try to pressure Leona with safe jumps and overheads. Tick throw her to set yourself up for crossups. You never want to jump at her just to do it. Her Moon slasher comes out fast and has some decent range. Her EX moon slasher makes her invulnerable. However, if you block moon slasher, you can run up and punish her. With Leona, you're really playing the waiting game and playing against the player. Just play smart and crack open that defense.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 11:03:55 PM by Reiki.Kito »

dmick1981

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 08:07:28 AM »
Man ran into another wall against a saiki and mai. Saiki can zone me out and mai has the godlike normals

blackgenma

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 07:39:49 PM »
I'm not an expert on the match up at all, but I play both Terry and Saiki, and it suffices to say that Saiki's zoning game is nothing out of the ordinary. if you guess correctly when he's about to shoot a fireball, a well placed jump in will do the job, as he has considerable start up and recovery on his fireball. terry's super jump is high and goes far, so take advantage of that. hell, if you don't want to chase him, just shoot power wave until he comes to you, because he can't win fireball wars. his ex fireball isn't designed for zoning, and his C fireball is for antiair/juggle purposes. his fireball DM is....slow. even a well placed ex power wave will force him to stop chucking fireballs. so just play smart when making your way in, do some zoning of your own, make good use of C power wave up close, and don't be afraid to let the opponent know your willing to blow them up with ex buster wolf if they get brain dead with the projectiles.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 02:24:16 PM »
So I found out some interesting stuff with Benimaru.

If you backdash when you see Benimaru normal jump and do like j.D, you can sweep him or low B him. If you walk back just a little bit or walk forward just a little bit from where the training model is and you are, you will always trip him up with Terry's low B into full combo.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 12:40:06 AM »
So, I know its been quite some time, but I decided to add some more info for those Terry players that are having trouble with Kim.

Terry vs. Kim

Break down: Terry vs. Kim isn't as hard a match as some people think. Because Terry has such long range normals and he has his own charge reversal, it makes it so Kim cannot jump as easily on Terry. Also, without very complicated setups for crossups, Kim only has a few options outside of some specific instances where crossups are ambiguous or easy. The key is to find the holes where Kim can be hit out of for Terry and making quick use of them. There's also avoiding taking the bait in his ground game to punish him. Recognizing at what range and at what juncture Kim likes to do certain things, Terry can make Kim really sweat.

The traps - Kim has some fairly safe moves and semi-safe moves that you should keep track of. For example, his EX Hangetsuzan is safe. He will try to poke you out of anything you do and he likely will. His super (Hououhitenkyaku) is also safe. On knockdown, his EX Hienzan (A.K.A the Flash Kick) has 3 frames of start up. Most characters can only legitimately safe jump (Jump-in on someone and hit them through a non-invul reversal or block before they're hit by an invul reversal) a 4F reversal. Since it's a d~u motion, crossing him up won't matter. So trying to attempt a regular safejump when he has meter is a bad idea.

His far st.D, on block, is +3. It's his most positive move on block. It's also low crushes (Lower body invulnerability) so it'll go right over any low you use on the first hit. If you block it, be patient. His d.B, d.B, d.B, st.B string is safe even though st.B is -6. You can't punish it with Terry, but his pressure ends from there (He's also really far away!). His far st.C and st.CD are also safe because of the pushback. You're really far away from Kim and his pressure ends here so you're both at natural afterwards. He can't special cancel far st.C either, but he can cancel st.CD (Though, anything he cancels into probably isn't safe so it's just a nice zoning tool). His EX Hishokyaku (His air stomp special), on hit can be really crazy. Kim can jump on top of Terry and cross him up by special cancelling his normal into this move. So he can cross you up twice. Very dirty stuff as well as being safe on block too. For all of these situations. If you see them, block and reflect. Just take your time. Even great Kim's have to depend on unsafe things to get in damage so wait for that opportunity, space them out, and wait for them to make a mistake.

The holes - Now that we've identified what the traps are, lets identify his holes against Terry. Almost all of Kim's specials are unsafe on block or whiff. Any Hangetsuzan can be full punished by Terry's st.B. D Hangetsuzan pushes you a bit away from him, but it's so terrible on block that Terry can literally run forward and deck him with st.D. However, better Kim's aren't going to give you that window all the time so you need to know what other holes they'll use. Some Kim's will try to do his air Hangetsuzan. No version of it is safe. That's HD combo punishable The EX Air Hangetsuzan might be invulnerable, but if you block and wait, it's at least -1. You can throw him or beat out anything that's not EX Hienzan with d.B, st.C, or st.D. Even then, that's two meter to cover up a bad move.

St.B is -6 on block. The time where he's vulnerable is when Kim brings back his leg right after the kick. Just before he returns to neutral. That's your moment to strike. Pay attention to what the guy does. Even the best Kim's will fall into a pattern. Will he do two d.Bs, one down B, or three? If he does d.B, st.B, you can punish it with EX Rising Tackle and st.B, if he does two d.Bs, you can punish it with Terry's st.B!

You have a no meter punisher for Terry! You can follow it up with B Crackshoot, but that won't combo. With meter, you can punish big with a super or EX Burn Knuckle (Though the timing is rough). Either way, he can't use st.B as an easy pressure tool anymore.

Another thing to note is ff+A. If you're blocking high, ff+A will bounce off of you and rebound backwards. This not safe AT ALL. If he does nothing, you can hit him with A burn knuckle EASY. However, most Kim's won't do that. If you block high, they might try to hit you with Hangetsuzan or with a normal on the way back like st.B. That's fine. If you notice them do any of that and you have meter, EX Buster Wolf or EX Power Geyser will roll right through any follow up they do for extra damage (Except EX Hangetsuzan, but again that's waste of meter). You can also just block. Again, almost ALL of Kim's specials are NOT safe on block.

The other option is you can duck ff+A. If someone is auto-piloting Kim, holding down is your best bet. If you duck it, he doesn't rebound and you get a full combo anyway.

His best tool is his far st.D. This is a very odd pressure tool because it puts him in such high positive frames and very good spacing. You want to avoid blocking this at all costs. The best way to deal with it is to not deal with it. Like I said before, it low crushes, but it also hits high. This means you can duck under the first hit. If you throw out a d.A, you're still crouching, but d.A is a mid attack. You basically have a move that allows you to interrupt the move before it hits you.  Just keep in mind where his far normals start in comparison to you and you can d.A through them. Terry combos into d.C for free so you can get a free combo off of Kim whenever he does that.


Tricks and tips

Although it's tempting, do not try to overuse crackshoot. Although he's charging down, you don't want to accidentally get hit with a flashkick. Use it a few times and throughout the round or bait them into trying to beat the move or in block strings you normally would end with crackshoot. Also, EX Crackshoot is perfect because you can set up hard knockdowns and Kim is habitually blocking low. Strings like sweep into D crackshoot or EX crackshoot will really hurt Kim in the long run.

On the offense, try to stay outside of his sweep range, which is long. Staying that far gives you enough time to react to anything he throws at you and poke him if he doesn't do anything. You also can take advantage of your hard knockdowns and test his reactions. Use empty jumps and hops to make Kim think you're trying to safe jump. In actuality, you want to jump earlier than that by just a little. You won't hit him, but you'll fool most people into thinking they can. If they're trigger happy, they'll use EX Hienzan and you get a free combo. If they don't and use his Hououhitenkyaku, you could roll before the super hits and punish the whiff or just block. Either way they're wasting meter and Kim without meter is pretty limited.

Above all, be patient and keep at it. Don't let him pressure you and use the windows to start your own offensive, whatever that may be.

SPLIPH

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 03:18:54 AM »
Thanks for the in-depth write up Reiki, I appreciate it. This is another real tough one for me.

Kim really tries my patience.

dmick1981

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 07:13:05 PM »
luvin me the kim writeup as he also TRIES MY DAMN PAITENCE!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
any Hwa Jai matchup tech because he gets on my damn nerves with his safe ass normals/specials

Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 07:31:11 PM »
Hwa Jai versus Terry is pretty hard because he has pretty good ground normals. He doesn't have really good jumping normals aside from his j.CD, but he also has air Dragon tail and Air Dragon kick. But it's also a matter of understanding what your opponent wants to do in a certain situation and capitalizing on it. I feel it's a matter of not letting him run his game on you. For one, most of his reversals if not all of them are safe jumpable.

Also, if you didn't know, he's invulnerable during his drink super till he throws the bottle away. Before it leaves his hand and goes a little away from him, he can't do anything. I haven't tested it with Terry, but I have with other characters. Unless he's really far away from you or you're knocked down, you can poke him out of it.


In terms of poking him, you have really good hitconfirmable pokes. You can use d.B to harass him and use the d.A, d.C chain and delay in between to make a frame trap. Against Hwa, when you frame trap against him, you don't want to use specials as much unless you're spacing them. Fireball close up is a bad idea unless you're using it to pressure him (EX Fireball or a fireball on him cornered). Once you're on him, his options with meter are to command grab or DP. Stay a little away from him to DP, wait a split second after knocking him down, and then continue poking. If he's going to DP, he's going to commit to it on wake up or not at all.

Hwa Jai's slide is safe, but everything afterwards isn't. You can guess and blow up the follow up with an invincible move, you could wait and block it, or you could get out of pressure by rolling or backdashing. Best thing for Hwa is if you let him pressure you. If you stay still, he can reposition himself to cross you up with D Dragon Tail (Which Romance has shown many times can also cross up and have him land in front of you so that's dangerous).

Also, don't let him do that. If you see someone likes to do blockstrings into that, roll before it hits you (He's in the air, he won't grab you), or Rising Tackle him. Do not block that. It's like Terry's D crackshoot as well so if you have to block, don't block it crouching. His regular Dragon tail is free grab.

Over all advice, don't let him corner or pressure you. That's what makes him scary. At every given opportunity, backdash away from him, get out of the corner from a GC roll or GC blowback, or hit and run. Make him respect your ground game by knocking him out of the air with air-to-air j.B or df+C then stay on him till he cracks.

SPLIPH

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 04:41:19 AM »
Requesting a write up for Billy Kane! =o

Plenty of match ups give me trouble for Terry, but I would say my top 3 in no specific order go to Kim, Hwa, Billy.

Basically all characters that are good at poking...

What kind of characters / playstyles give you guys the most trouble as Terry?

Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 06:50:26 AM »
I'll try to figure out what I can do against Billy. I have a decent Billy player I play casuals with and I'll play Terry against him. Really, Billy on defense is pretty bad. Terry can keep him pinned with a lot of stuff like fireballs and normals that make his long-range normals pretty bad. Only thing is his EX DP. But I digress, needs more analysis.

Characters that give me trouble are good ambiguous cross up characters. I can't rising tackle all the time against these guys and Terry is a very specific normal sort of person. If you don't use the right normal, you can get blown up. I think characters I really don't like facing with Terry is like Mr. Karate, Daimon, Takuma, and Kyo. They're pretty hard match ups for me because I have to be cautious and that really slows me down.

SPLIPH

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 05:21:23 AM »

St.B is -6 on block. The time where he's vulnerable is when Kim brings back his leg right after the kick. Just before he returns to neutral. That's your moment to strike. Pay attention to what the guy does. Even the best Kim's will fall into a pattern. Will he do two d.Bs, one down B, or three? If he does d.B, st.B, you can punish it with EX Rising Tackle and st.B, if he does two d.Bs, you can punish it with Terry's st.B!

Is this one really a legit punish, or just something to throw out incase Kim continues to press after st.B? I can't get it work at all, and the frame data shows Terry's st.B as 6 frames. Only thing I can get to work is the EX tackle, and also st.A (2 frame punish?), but only against cr.B > st.B.

Reiki.Kito

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 10:24:04 AM »
I do not believe the wiki's frame data is completely accurate. In arcade, Terry's st.B was 4F. I have punished it with st.B in training mode too. That's a significant nerf to Terry's st.B if that were the case.

But yes, you CAN punish Kim's st.B with Terry's st.B. It's a legitimate punish.

Crimson_King15

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 06:10:22 PM »
I do not believe the wiki's frame data is completely accurate. In arcade, Terry's st.B was 4F. I have punished it with st.B in training mode too. That's a significant nerf to Terry's st.B if that were the case.

But yes, you CAN punish Kim's st.B with Terry's st.B. It's a legitimate punish.
Even if it is 6 frames that's not too bad all it means is it is a 1 frame punish

SPLIPH

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Re: terry bogard matchup thread
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 04:13:15 AM »
I'm having trouble in match-ups where my st.A / df.C gets stuffed a lot. Things like Clark hop and jump j.B / j.CD seems to always get me.

I'm not fully aware of all moves where df.C is not a good anti-air on jumps. Another one that gets me off the top of my head, while Terry is cornered, I can't seem to df.C Chin when he does full jumps on me.