Author Topic: trying to get better at KOF.  (Read 7023 times)

chasiubao

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trying to get better at KOF.
« on: October 03, 2010, 06:00:30 AM »
Sup everyone.  I am not completely new to the kof scene but i think im ok at it.  some of the people might know who i am at AI.  im the short fat asian guy that plays blue terry, 02 color kyo and yellow K'.

I want to get solid at the game but there are a few things i have very low knowledge of about the game.  If anyone can direct me to some place or anything about frame data it would help me out a lot.  so i know whats unsafe to do and etc.

Coming from a SF player i do understand majority of the fundamentals of the game but i still have some problems.

so heres a few things i hope ppl can help me can give me advice on.

i still need to work on regular hops.  every time i try to do it i get an hyper hop instead lol.  ill get use to it soon.

Cross Ups:  For some reason i have no clue why i cant cross up with certain attacks and ive seen ppl done it so im guessing its my timing or the jump i use.  For ex:  sometimes i was able to cross up with a jumping  ;b while opponent is cornered.  but sometimes i just seem to land in front for some reason and i thought i would have crossed up.  maybe because im using the wrong jump? hitting button to late?  so any tips would help on how to cross up lol.  i cross up fine in ssf4 but in kof it feels kind of different in a way to me.  

Match Ups:  If anyone have any link on match up discussion on the previous KOF games it would be helpful.  maybe i can try to learn those and apply it to kofxiii.  right now i dont understand how to fight a lot of characters at the moment and how to approach them.  

maybe someone can give me some advice on how i should play my characters.  i enjoy rushing down thats how i always am and when i get a knock down i try to mix things up to keep the pressure.  but im pretty sure there are a lot of things i need to learn especially my options when i get a knock down or on block and etc.  i would also like some information on how certain characters are played.  Like for example ppl someone told me kula is a poking type of character how and what makes her that type.  yeah basically i need to understand every character and how they are meant to be played so i have general knowledge on what they are most capable of and their weakness.

today i just learned that for Terry that his crack shot and kyo's double kick juggle launcher is unsafe on certain characters that have 1 frame moves on block.  im guessing in this game command grabs are 1 frame?

so far i have problems on how to approach grapplers in this game like goro and clark.  goro has some nasty pokes and i need to learn how his ground slam works.  so any advice on how to avoid those will be  cool.  just wondering in general if i knock down goro or clark what can i do to keep the pressure with terry and kyo.  when i cross up they roll out.  should i just short hop to pressure?  im scared to run in and hit low since i think imma eat a command throw.  so right now i just try to zone and poke til i see them mess up and have an opening then i try to punish and pressure them.  

Rolling:  i noticed how rolling is very punishable.  i dont use it as often because usually in general i will get wrecked for using that.  so when is it a good idea to use it?  when ppl jump at me? or any other certain situations you can tell me.  someone told me if i noticed a pattern if im cornered i can use it to get away.  just wondering does rolling still help as cross overs in kofxiii?  i havnt seen anyone use it in kofxiii but ive seen ppl use it in 98um sometimes.  i dont usually use rolls.  i just usually use  ;c ;d on block when i have meter so i can get them away from me.

imma try to play more kof xiii at ai when i drop by.  sometimes i get too carried away and forget that i have a coin up on the kof machine when i play ssf4 lol.

any advice will be helpful.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 06:17:33 AM by chasiubao »

FataCon

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 06:38:21 AM »
start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r75Lz1Drp8g the movement options still apply, and it's good to generally know.

rolling is very punishable. they're vulnerable to throws. bait an opponent's roll out of the corner and throw them back in. after a few tries, they'll learn to respect the pressure and either sit in the corner or guard CD you. be more patient with your corner pressure.

you don't have to worry about command throws as much in this game. most of the time, you'll only get caught if it's comboed or from an empty jump-in. be careful of not hitting your jump-ins deep, it's somewhat akin to getting SPD'd out of blockstun (since you're familiar with SF)

as for character specific stuff, you should probably ask questions to the people who play those characters or do a bit of research, even though the character threads are pretty bare at the moment.

and that's as much as help i can offer. i'm pretty new to the game myself. i think we're all learning at this point still.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 06:39:58 AM by FataCon »

chasiubao

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 06:47:16 AM »
yeah thanks for some advice i watched that video before.  i played kof 98 , 02 and xi a lot but casually back then so i understand the fundamentals.  but there are just those a lot of little things i need to know and learn to become better.  but yeah the character threads dont seem to have a lot of info atm but a lot of helpful combo's lol.  i cant really practice those yet since usually when i play at ai.  theres a lot of beastly ppl playing it already so i dont get to try them out lol.  hopefully it'll come out on console soon so i can hit up that training mode lol.

Kane317

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 09:59:52 AM »
yeah thanks for some advice i watched that video before.  i played kof 98 , 02 and xi a lot but casually back then so i understand the fundamentals.  but there are just those a lot of little things i need to know and learn to become better.  but yeah the character threads dont seem to have a lot of info atm but a lot of helpful combo's lol.  i cant really practice those yet since usually when i play at ai.  theres a lot of beastly ppl playing it already so i dont get to try them out lol.  hopefully it'll come out on console soon so i can hit up that training mode lol.

Sup chasiubao, glad you mad it to dreamcancel (I'm the one who told you to get on DC, playing 2 random and Chin. 4leaf, guy with long hair, was playing 2 randoms and Shen--we shared characters).

Make sure you introduce yourself here, you can copy and paste the first part of your post:
---

Sup everyone.  I am not completely new to the kof scene but i think im ok at it.

Here we go...:
I was just discussing with 4leaf that there's a few of you guys lately, Ivan being one of them, that shows huge potential if you guys played with the regulars more often.

I want to get solid at the game but there are a few things i have very low knowledge of about the game.  If anyone can direct me to some place or anything about frame data it would help me out a lot.  so i know whats unsafe to do and etc.

Frame data doesn't seem as pertinent as other fighting games; you can just kinda figure out what's punishable and what's not after awhile.  Nevertheless, check your PM.

Coming from a SF player i do understand majority of the fundamentals of the game but i still have some problems, so heres a few things i hope ppl can help me can give me advice on:

i still need to work on regular hops.  every time i try to do it i get an hyper hop instead lol.  ill get use to it soon.

Indeed it's just practice.  Make sure that you're not rolling your joystick from down to upforward (like tigerknee)--just neutral, tap upforward (or upback) and return to neutral.  Some people even find it helpful to pull down to the bottom three directions after tapping the upforward direction (just make sure you start from neutral).  Oh, I should point out the jump arcs are different since XII and because there's no shadows anymore, you might just being doing hops and you don't even know it.

Cross Ups:  For some reason i have no clue why i cant cross up with certain attacks and ive seen ppl done it so im guessing its my timing or the jump i use.  For ex:  sometimes i was able to cross up with a jumping  ;b while opponent is cornered.  but sometimes i just seem to land in front for some reason and i thought i would have crossed up.  maybe because im using the wrong jump? hitting button to late?  so any tips would help on how to cross up lol.  i cross up fine in ssf4 but in kof it feels kind of different in a way to me.

Many people coming from SF find the jumps hardest to grasp coz there's 4 jumps in KOF and jumps are relied on heavily.  If you're talking about Kyo, which you asked me about today, you might just be pushing it a tad bit early hence not crossing up.  K's j.B crosses up real easy.  (If you are talking about Kyo, use his jump.down+C as well)
 
Match Ups:  If anyone have any link on match up discussion on the previous KOF games it would be helpful.  maybe i can try to learn those and apply it to kofxiii.  right now i dont understand how to fight a lot of characters at the moment and how to approach them. 

maybe someone can give me some advice on how i should play my characters.  i enjoy rushing down thats how i always am and when i get a knock down i try to mix things up to keep the pressure.  but im pretty sure there are a lot of things i need to learn especially my options when i get a knock down or on block and etc.  i would also like some information on how certain characters are played.  Like for example ppl someone told me kula is a poking type of character how and what makes her that type.  yeah basically i need to understand every character and how they are meant to be played so i have general knowledge on what they are most capable of and their weakness.

Sounds like you got the gist of it, but just lack experience from watching games (watch all the YouTube clips you can get your hands on for XIII)  I don't know of any threads that have specific matchups; perhaps you can indicate which characters you're having a hard time with with which one of your own characters so we can get a better idea.

today i just learned that for Terry that his crack shot and kyo's double kick juggle launcher is unsafe on certain characters that have 1 frame moves on block.  im guessing in this game command grabs are 1 frame?

Basically, most 1-frame moves are command grabs (like my Clark's).  There are one or two NeoMaxes that feel like they are 1 frame but it's hard to tell.

so far i have problems on how to approach grapplers in this game like goro and clark.  goro has some nasty pokes and i need to learn how his ground slam works.  so any advice on how to avoid those will be  cool.  just wondering in general if i knock down goro or clark what can i do to keep the pressure with terry and kyo.  when i cross up they roll out.  should i just short hop to pressure?  im scared to run in and hit low since i think imma eat a command throw.  so right now i just try to zone and poke til i see them mess up and have an opening then i try to punish and pressure them. 

You answered my questioned from earlier lol.  First of all, make sure against grapplers your jump-ins have to be landed deep.  I think today I punished you at least one time when you didn't land a deep enough jump in (barely hit my head instead of my character's chest).  As a rule of thumb, stay in the air if you think you're going to get grabbed.  I know it sounds obvious, but it's always safer to jump than to poke a grappler if you think I'm going to dash in and throw you.  Now that you're in the air, familiarize yourself with the grappler's normals:  Goro has trusty standing D which beats hops/hyperhops and Clark has a stand A (albeit not as good as Goro's s.D of course).  When they're abusing too many of those pokes, which to normal jumps which should beat Clark's s.A easily and depending on distance, Goro's s.D.  Also, jump CDs are real good for safe pressure and leaves your opponent in a longer blockstun than a regular normal (don't forget to watch for "counter" messages and tack in an additional free hit).  All your characters have good jump CDs.

If your opponent is rolling out on wake up while you go for a crossup, then you're doing it too late.  Try doing the hit earlier.

Rolling:  i noticed how rolling is very punishable.  i dont use it as often because usually in general i will get wrecked for using that.  so when is it a good idea to use it?  when ppl jump at me? or any other certain situations you can tell me.  someone told me if i noticed a pattern if im cornered i can use it to get away.  just wondering does rolling still help as cross overs in kofxiii?  i havnt seen anyone use it in kofxiii but ive seen ppl use it in 98um sometimes.  i dont usually use rolls.  i just usually use  ;c ;d on block when i have meter so i can get them away from me.

Rolls are real risky as, like you said, are very punishable.  I still roll more than I really should (hehe), basically I roll when I know for sure they're doing a laggy special/super themselves (Ryo/Takuma/Robert's HaohShoKoKen fireballs etc...) or getting out of a corner only if I know they're going to do an early jump attack (still risky) or even a poorly timed crossup.  Bottomline, use rolls with reservation and stick to your Guard Cancel CDs instead.

imma try to play more kof xiii at ai when i drop by.  sometimes i get too carried away and forget that i have a coin up on the kof machine when i play ssf4 lol.

Keep on playing, there's no shortcut to hardwork.  Metaphysics is a great example, comparing himself to the first month of release and now is really night and day (despite taking a thrashing from us--props).

Anytime I'm playing, you can always ask me to share characters and I'll select whatever character you want so you can practice (that way it shortens the wait time).

« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 10:46:37 AM by Kane317 »

chasiubao

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 07:09:24 PM »
imma apply every bit of information i have just learned the next time i play.

Thanks on the cross up information.  i knew my timing was off somewhere just wasnt sure if i was doing to early or late.

yeah i should use jumping cd a little more for pressure game because of its longer block stun.  helps with short hop pressures.  
im an idiot when it comes to fighting grapplers pretty much i think my problem is hopping on them then getting poked out of it.  then all the sudden i get scared on approaching grapplers lol.  

My lack of experience against fighting certain character is pretty much my problem.  when i was playing mr kof mai i had no clue what to do or what to punish.  also when i played your king last time kane i found that approaching king was hard since she now has those air fireballs lol when i saw that i was like FFFFFFFFFFFFFFuuuuck lol.  i use to have problems against leona but playing against ivan last time got me to be more patient against her and i started to pay attention to her charges.  Im pretty sure ill have a lot more problems against the rest of the cast.  just havnt really had the chance to get to play against them all yet.  hopefully next time i go to ai ill see you guys again and ill ask for more information as im there after you guys observe how i play and tell me what im doing wrong on my match ups or what i can improve on in general.

Right now though i do have a tough time fighting against Clark with Terry.  I dont really know what to do and get away from clark when im getting pressured.  i dont know a lot of my options since i hardly see any vids of terry players.  only time when i get to see a beastly terry is when mr kof play.  i dont get how he does it man lol he makes it look so easy to play terry that well and keeps his opponents pressured.

The 4 different type of jumps in this game is another thing i need to work on.  im not familiar with all the jumping distance yet and knowing when to use them.  Im pretty sure ill adapt to them because lately ive been trying to zone and work on footsies a lot more lately.

thanks again for all the info im sure that next time i play you guys ill lvl up.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 07:11:11 PM by chasiubao »

FataCon

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 09:48:41 PM »
i use to have problems against leona but playing against ivan last time got me to be more patient against her and i started to pay attention to her charges.

damn it lol

Kane317

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 09:23:05 AM »
i use to have problems against leona but playing against ivan last time got me to be more patient against her and i started to pay attention to her charges.

damn it lol

Man, what's up with that FataCon :)

I'll be there tomorrow guys.

chasiubao

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2010, 05:37:32 AM »
i dont usually go to ai on the weekdays but thurs-sun ill be there on one of those days lol this week i might now show up because of a homies bday

bramza24

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010, 10:43:02 AM »
As you can see, the game is really great and the transition between XII and XIII (attack collisions etc.) is just revolutionary that it's like a new game to me. We are all just in the process of learning it anew...

Rolling is really punishing so give more pressure on your corner traps when you're on the offensive and defensively, be patient and react to what you're opponent's gonna do for a fierce counterattack if you have no meter and execute a Guard  ;c ;d for a knockback attack (but quite expensive for it uses a stock in your meter).

The best bit is to react to your opponent's mistakes and from there punish with with a nasty combo


Xenosagafan87

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 05:51:22 AM »
I didn't want to start a new thread but i figured i would get my question answered here:

I'm playing 2002UM with a friend online and likes to use Heirden and spam the the move where you have to charge back and forth (can not remeber the moves name) and the one where you charge up and down CONSTANTLY. now i use Mature/Athena/Mai. anyway i can stop his attacks? i can't block because the up and down charge goes through blocks

Cibernetico

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010, 08:20:04 AM »
Just use which anti air attack has the most priority for your characters. you also have to remember to learn to react to it faster. For Athena, try using Psycho Sword. Can't help you with the other two since I don't play them.

I will say that a good strategy for every character is to use a high jump back as Heidern is coming at you with his second attack and just hit him as he gets closer. Yeah, it's an annoying strategy that a lot of Heidern users use but it can be stopped. Just gotta practice on your timing.

bramza24

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 08:27:06 AM »
I really love Goro and I really want to play solid when using him but whenever I do, he's always first to go and my best characters (Beni, Kyo, Terry) last for I'm not confident to use him in a deciding round. Any tips on how to properly use him in XIII?

Thanks for answering my question.

bramza24

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 09:16:43 AM »
Been playing with 2002UM lately and yes Heidern's Neck Roller is nasty

Since both three have good rushing special moves...use and timed them correctly

Try ROLLING (though risky) to dodge his Neck Roller and from there rush with a special attack

Athena: Use her fast Psycho Ball and Psycho Sword Attacks

Mai: Use Ryu Enbu and Kacho Sen attacks. Deadly Ninja Bees is also a good rusher

Mature: Despair is a good rusher

React and timed your attacks properly

Kane317

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2010, 01:07:59 AM »
Been playing with 2002UM lately and yes Heidern's Neck Roller is nasty

Since both three have good rushing special moves...use and timed them correctly

Try ROLLING (though risky) to dodge his Neck Roller and from there rush with a special attack

Athena: Use her fast Psycho Ball and Psycho Sword Attacks

Mai: Use Ryu Enbu and Kacho Sen attacks. Deadly Ninja Bees is also a good rusher

Mature: Despair is a good rusher

React and timed your attacks properly

Just jump backwards and use CD.  I used Heidern in 2k2UM and that would stop me in my tracks all the time.  It's the close up ones in blockstrings that you have to worry about (j.D, d.A, Neck Roller).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 01:05:25 PM by Kane317 »

MAASKYO

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Re: trying to get better at KOF.
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2011, 01:13:47 PM »
Quote
Been playing with 2002UM lately and yes Heidern's Neck Roller is nasty
the d~u+p throw..?? just hope in you place  then do whatever you want..e.g
RYo hop  ;up then before  U  land  ;c then  ;c  to qcf+a or any super..